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The Dark (Pool) Truth About What Really Goes On In The Stock Market

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Courtesy of the author, we present to our readers the following excerpt from Dark Pools: High-Speed Traders, AI Bandits, and the Threat to the Global Financial System, by Scott Patterson, author of The Quants.

In early December 2009, Haim Bodek finally solved the riddle of the stock-trading problem that was killing Trading Machines, the high-frequency firm he’d help launch in 2007. The former Goldman Sachs and UBS trader was attending a party in New York City sponsored by a computer-driven trading venue. He’d been complaining for months to the venue about all the bad trades—the runaway prices, the fees—that were bleeding his firm dry. But he’d gotten little help.

At the bar, he cornered a representative of the firm and pushed for answers. The rep asked Bodek what order types he’d been using to buy and sell stocks. Bodek told him Trading Machines used limit orders.

The rep smirked and took a sip of his drink. “You can’t use those,” he told Bodek.

“Why not?”

“You have to use other orders. Those limit orders are going to get run over.”

“But that’s what everyone uses,” Bodek said, incredulous. “That’s what Schwab uses.”

“I know. You shouldn’t.”

As the rep started to explain undocumented features about how limit orders were treated inside the venue’s matching engine, Bodek started to scribble an order on a napkin, detailing how it worked. “You’re fucked in that case?” he said, shoving the napkin at the guy.

“Yeah.”

He scribbled another. “You’re fucked in that case?” “Yeah.”

“Are you telling me you’re fucked in every case?” “Yeah.”

“Why are you telling me this?”

“We want you to turn us back on again,” the rep replied. “You see, you don’t have a bug.”

Bodek’s jaw dropped. He’d suspected something was going on in- side the market that was killing his trades, that it wasn’t a bug, but it had been only a vague suspicion with little proof.

“I’ll show you how it works.”

The rep told Bodek about the kind of orders he should use— orders that wouldn’t get abused like the plain vanilla limit orders; orders that seemed to Bodek specifically designed to abuse the limit orders by exploiting complex loopholes in the market’s plumbing. The orders Bodek had been using were child’s play, simple declarative sentences sent to exchanges such as “Buy up to $20.” These new order types were compound sentences, with multiple clauses, virtually Faulknerian in their rambling complexity.

The end result, however, was simple: Everyday investors and even sophisticated firms like Trading Machines were buying stocks for a slightly higher price than they should, and selling for a slightly lower price and paying billions in “take” fees along the way.

The special order types that gave Bodek the most trouble—the kind the trading-venue rep told him about—allowed high-frequency traders to post orders that remained hidden at a specific price point at the front of the trading queue when the market was moving, while at the same time pushing other traders back. Even as the market ticked up and down, the order wouldn’t move. It was locked and hidden. It was dark. This got around the problem of reshuffling and rerouting. The sitting-duck limit orders, meanwhile, lost their priority in the queue when the market shifted, even as the special orders maintained their priority.

Why would the high-speed firms wish to do this? Maker-taker fees that generate billions in revenue for the speed Bots every year. By staying at the front of the queue and hidden as the market shifted, the firm could place orders that, time and again, were paid the fee. Other traders had no way of knowing that the orders were there. Over and over again, their orders stepped on the hidden trades, which acted effectively as an invisible trap that made other firms pay the “take” fee.

It was fiendishly complex. The order types were pinned to a specific price, such as $20.05, and were hidden from the rest of the market until the stock hit that price. As the orders shifted around in the queue, the trap was set and the orders pounced. In ways, the venue had created a dark pool inside the lit pool.

“You’re totally screwed unless you do that,” the rep at the bar said. Bodek was astonished—and outraged. He’d been complaining for months about the bad executions he’d been getting, and had been told nothing about the hidden properties of the order types until he’d punished the it by reducing the flow he send to it. He was certain they’d known the answer all along. But they couldn’t tell everyone—because if everyone started using the abusive order types, no one would use limit orders, the food the new order types fed on.

Bodek felt sick to his stomach. “How can you do that?” he said.

The rep laughed. “If we changed things, the high-frequency traders wouldn’t send us their orders,” he said.

* * *

More tomorrow

 

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Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:50 | 2577935 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

I have no idea who on Main Street would still be in this market. You would be better off buying a lottery ticket. I have been successful at making money in real estate, small business, etc but I have never been successful at making money in the stock market. It's a complete fucking Ponzi run by criminals, liars and cheats. There is no such thing as investing or building value in these fucking markets.

The way to kill this beast is for the common man to stop participating. Buy things that have value be it PM's, a farm, a forest, etc. Find opportunities elsewhere, they are out there but you have to look harder that's all.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:18 | 2578339 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

You can make Money in the Market but your thinking has to be illogical.  If a Companies Earnings are really bad but they beat the numbers buy.  Most people would short but that is the wrong thing to do.  Just like when the economic numbers come out really really bad.  That means Buy because Bernanke is going to fix it with a Helicopter full of Money.

If a Stock is hitting more highs most people would Sell but Wall Street Buys.  When a Stock is hitting new lows many Retail people will Buy but Wall Street hits the Short to 0 button.  That is why I have learned to stay away from "Cheep" Stocks.  That is where Retail is and where Wall Street just pushes them lower and lower.

Most people think logically and that is why they cannot make any Money.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 20:15 | 2579502 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Most people act ILLOGICALLY and refuse to use math. Use real logic & real math and you will win. It's that simple. You need to know the ground you're working on, the basis of all logic. Before you know the premises, assertions & conditions which are the groundwork of the logic-universe you operate in you have no basis upon which to form additional logical formulae.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:59 | 2577952 sasebo
sasebo's picture

It's all just rigged gambling.  By 0.1% of the population. So they've got 40-50% of the paper money (paper money is not wealth by the way).

So you think they're going to buy 40-50% of the clothing, houses & cars, etc? Not hardly. They buy 0.1% of the food, 0.2 - 0.5% of everything else - no inflation. They keep the money away from the 99.9% to prevent inflation.  So who gives a shit if the 0.1% has 40-50% of the paper money as long as they don't spend enough to cause inflation or buy enough to cause shortages for those who produce the real wealth? Let them stay out of our way & gamble amongst themselves. Just don't be stupid & gamble with them. It's rigged in their favor. And they print the paper money. How do you think they accumulated all that paper money (it's not wealth - stuff is wealth). We own all the stuff.      

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:03 | 2578029 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

"We own all the stuff"

Really? Seriously? Are you that fuckin' stupid. So you have NO debt of ANY kind?! Even if you own your house you don't own it. Why?! Because it is taxed! Therefore you are a debtor even with no debt!!!

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:43 | 2578131 sasebo
sasebo's picture

Somebody's buying the -- what is it --  $16trillion of GDP? That's a lot of stuff and the 0.1% ain't buying it all. I'm assuming you own a car, some clothes, some appliances, some food, some electronics, a tv --- that's wealth. If you borrowed to buy it all that's your problem. When I said we I meant us working people I wasn't talking about dumb asses. If you don't own anything that's your problem. Not the average working person. If you're don't own any of that $16 trillion being produced every year somebody else does.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:26 | 2578472 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Your stuff is made to be disposable so you have to buy more.  If you think a flat screen TV and some worn out pants from Old Navy are wealth then you're beyond reach.  That's the kind of shit you lean over and tell your wife:  "you're all I need baby, I'm happy". 

 

Commodities, land, and the means of production are wealth.  Until they start trading hot pants on the MERC.....

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 12:46 | 2578631 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

Wealth is living in freedom. It's being able to deal honestly with those around you.

Commodities, land, and the means of production are tools; they are not the end goal.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 13:12 | 2578681 sasebo
sasebo's picture

Commodities & land are wealth only if they're capable of producing something. If others value them. Is a piece of the Sahara Desert wealth? Is oil 100,000 ft. under the ground & unproducible wealth? Wealth is only something people value. Like a flat screen tv. Not sure you got all your oars in the water. 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 13:41 | 2578757 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Tell you what,  you take a flat screen TV, and I'll take the Sahara.   Then after a year, you put your TV on craigslist and see what you can get for it.  In the meantime, I'll be selling sand at Home Depot for $3 a bag.  

 

"Commodities & land are wealth only if they're capable of producing something"  

Gold and silver are commodities.  Wheat is a commodity.  Wheat doesn't produce anything.  It is a thing.  A 1/4 acre residential plot on Long Island doesn't produce anything.  It has a house on it though.  You might want to bone up on some shit before you make any more ridiculous comments, let alone question anybody else's oars in the water. 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:11 | 2578442 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

Sasebo and SoCalBusted are on the right track.

We the People control the world.

The key is for us to play our own game. Work and trade with people who provide real value and share similar values - freedom and fair play.

This article is another example of a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

The disease is central planning and fractional reserve banking. The only way to win is not to play the game.

Things will improve over time as we move in that direction.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 20:12 | 2579498 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Most people have debt, not even debt owed to them, and both debt owed and owned is bad. High risk.

The elite sell at inflated prices because they own so much of the stuff so your ONLY recourse is to stockpile what you need at each secure location & go dark off grid with your income & expenses.

THEY own all the stuff NOT You.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:52 | 2577956 techstrategy
techstrategy's picture

BS Robo. That theft (which is a more accurate and apt description of what is really happening) is a tax on ALL investors by HFT traders.  It is capital that is drained from the system and it results in lower prices for those world class companies.  you've seen significant multiple compression in large cap companies (in the more liquid stocks where the tax is higher).  you've seen multiple expansion and huge algo/option manipulation as the vehicle for said theft in the thinly traded MOMO stocks.

 

 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:10 | 2578329 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Now if the HFT was only the Government then we would not have any National Debt. 

Maybe the Government should take one tenth a penny from the HFT Traders as a Tax.  National Debt problem solved.  Think about how much Health Care that could buy.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 23:03 | 2577968 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

Does anyone remember the Robert Redford movie the "Sting"? It is a classic and it appears Wallstreet has learned from it.  In the movie the con is such that they run a delayed simulcast of a horse race (a few seconds late so that they know the outcome) then coax a guy to place a bet in a way that gets himself into trouble. Since they already know the outcom of the race they make him play a large bet with seeming great odds only to lose. Welcome to Wallstreet sheeple.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:11 | 2578040 FearedDevil
FearedDevil's picture

This is true and there is a solution to resolve this but it requires changing the handshake.   Most HFT machines hold orders on each number already, placing the public at a disadvantage and re-evaluating as markets move which is fine but extend the handshake for cancelations - allow for instant order placing but cancelling would require at least a half second, possibly more, to cancel.

This alone will provide kinks in their models

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:16 | 2578044 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Bullshit. I like William Gibson better.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:41 | 2578066 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

...uh....what?....

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 01:13 | 2578092 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You just had your 3 year birthday at ZH and you don't get it?   There is no hope for any of us then unless your name is actually NO-IQ. 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:46 | 2578132 hamstercheese
hamstercheese's picture

I dunno...investing is so polluted now.and look at the amount of paper involved in everything...in a Utopian world there would be perfect trust between all parties, therefore no paperwork.  Perfect trust.  But this world is crashing before our eyes because trust is evaporating.  Just look at the paperwork you have to engage in....

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:27 | 2578476 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

"Perfect trust" does not exist.

You are responsible for your choices and actions. That includes evaluating who and what you are dealing with.

Life is not a Bowl of Cherries - Erma Bombeck

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:51 | 2578151 Wholeden Caulfield
Wholeden Caulfield's picture

Makes the volume doesn't equal liquidity argument's case. Predatory Algo's play fuck fuck all day long.

In the simplest terms there has to be a longer economical consequence than sub nano seconds for a

legitimate market to function. Doing this shit way to long...traded 87 crash as well as the flash crash,

cursed the NYSE specialist  everyday they existed, but given the tent less circus that has evolved since 07 hybrid roll out...give me Jimmy Maguire and his direct line to BRK A Omaha office.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 04:06 | 2578156 falak pema
falak pema's picture

If only Queen Maggie had a brain to see how her Big Bang rains frogs and gargoyles  on the terrain of Magic Square Mile. She would then complain in her inimitable way, stiff upper lip and haughty demeanour so unique : I want my money back and send these shills to the Malouines-Falklands to be fed to the hounds of the down-under-Baskervilles ! 

Oh My oh my, a cesspool in Whitehall to feed another in CIty, what a pair of shitty titties has Rule Britannia become; and its not over in city of Millenium Eye where Oligarchs are kings and Burquas are so hi-society they make russian caviar look quite steak and kidney pie.  

Good ole Ronney and Evil Empire gimmick and when you look life straight in the eye surrounded by the Bohemian Grove mob of Seven Sister oligarchs and pontificate : the state is the problem not the solution. 

Well, we now have the solution and its insoluble in acid oceans of fiat! 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 04:26 | 2578164 Element
Element's picture

.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:38 | 2578193 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Now this jerk  Bodek formerly "traded" for The Squid - the biggest scam artist on the planet - and now complains about getting ripped off by some 3-card-monte order-matching outfit???

From Master of the Universe to Muppet!

LOL!!!   HAHahahaha!!!  Oh my!!!

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:03 | 2579169 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Good one Frankie!

The SEC porn watchers need to get on top of the exchanges not some digitized ho that comes over the Internet.

Level the playing field, which is not likely to happen. The HF virus will be hard to eradicate.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 08:56 | 2578317 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

No Money is not comming back.  Talked to a friend yesterday.  He said that he still has not recovered from Money put in the Nasdaz from 2000.  He currently has a large chunk of Money in the Bank and with the Zero percent interest rates he is going to use it to pay off his Mortgage which is about 6 %.  We both though that was the best idea as he will be making 6% on the Money by not having to pay Mortgage interest.  The only reason he had that large an amount in the Bank, is that he was going to buy a Condo in Florida but he bought a Short Sale that after 9 months fell thru.

With the 0 interest rates I think that people are paying of any Debt that has interest rather than keep it in the Bank.  They are also not going to put it back into the Market that already took so much of what they had.

My Friend reminded me of the quote.  It is not the return on my Money I am worried about it is the retrun of my Money.  That is the mind set now.  Too many people have been burned.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:39 | 2578356 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

To rig the Libor rate, you need a bunch of knuckle heads conspiring together.  To rig a computerized market you just need to have coded it with "special" functions aka features.  The regulatory agencies are run by the gov-mint aka friends and relatives of politicians who don't know shit about anything.  The regulatory agencies, if they had any skill, should be executing test trades through the system to verify that the game is honest.  Not goint to happen because there is no will and they don't have the brains.  I am a computer programmer, not in the finance sector, and like I always tell my clients when they talk about super security, I just say, someone has to be the ADMINISTRATOR and the ADMINISTRATOR can do everything.  Whether you set up 1 administrator or 10 administrator, those accounts can do everything.  See online poker scandals....

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:39 | 2578357 vinoverde
vinoverde's picture

i want to know how this trader winds up paying a fortune in take fees with limit order submission.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 10:50 | 2578420 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

This guy better watch what he tells the public. If he keeps this up, he will be in front on a Congress when they call for an investigation and get abused by a bunch of whores we call elected officials.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 10:52 | 2578422 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

It sounds like a defect in the design of the exchange manager to me. I once worked on the design of an online exchange for energy products. One basic rule built into the system was that any conditional or multidimensional order was lowest in priority in the bid and ask queue, regardless of price.  Only firm limit orders at a single price got ranked and market orders got priority over everything. In other words, the special orders described in this article would never get executed in our old system until  all other orders in the queue were executed first.

But, I don’t doubt that things have changed since then. That was way back in 2001; ancient history by Wall Street standards. These new developments are all consistent with core Wall Street philosophy; if it makes money for us at the expense of muppets, then it’s always fair and good by definition.   

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 03:19 | 2579969 kurt
kurt's picture

Oh, Enron. How's your granny?

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:03 | 2578440 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Can someone enlighten me why the average joe should give a rats ass about HF? If my broker is charging me 8.95 and the HF makes a penny ( which is probably way more than they make on average) off each of my 100 shares then it makes much more sense for me to be complaining about the broker ripping me off than the HF guys.

Secondly, since the exchanges are paying the HF for flow, this means that they are actually narrowing the spread with their stupid little games in the black pools. Honestly it's a bunch of overpaid mathematicians and physicists wasting their high priced PhDs when they should be curing cancer, flying to Mars, delving the depths or even cleaning out grannies bed pan. We're wasting our time worrying about these fools when the real problem is the state of the real world economy and not this rats nest that the SEC has allowed to pervade the dying exchange industry.

Quite honestly SEC should just read porn all day and combine all the stock exchanges into a regulated utility. But there's too much political influence (read innovation) for that ever to happen.

The real money in the stock market is not made by the manipulations of the HF anyways. Have a look sometime at how much volatility is generated during the day as compared to overnight. I guesss the main complaint is that HF appears a rigged game, but I still postulate that since for the average joe the spread is narrowed it's a boon.

Have at it boys, that's just my opinion.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 12:20 | 2578587 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

That's how a con works. One angle looks good, but the angle you're not looking at is where you're getting taken.

It's not really an issue for one trade for one person. It's the aggregate that's the problem. Controlling a market destroys the market.

In this case the con men are gaining more control which lessens the results of your honest actions.

"Money is more than green ink and paper. It's how you earn it." - The Rifleman

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 12:24 | 2578594 Liberty2012
Liberty2012's picture

.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2578862 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Juiced,

It is because they control the price.  With the sub penny they can keep a Sell order from being hit so it stays the same.  No matter how many trades if they keep intercepting the sell orders the stock will not go lower.  They can then hit the Buy order to push the price down.

Or the reverse they can buy a sub penny above the ask so that the ask does not get hit and the Stock does not go lower.

It is a manipulation to push the price action where ever they want it.

I trade in a small illiqud stock and every time I hit buy I get a fill at .001 less that the ask.  So the Ask is never filled and they can keep the price down, as it shows no demand in the stock.

 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 16:56 | 2579107 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

OH, are you trading with chuck? Those trades appear to be filled internally. I know for a fact that many other e-brokers never give that kind hundredthsof a cent fill, when you hit the ask you get the ask, when you whack the bid you get filled at the bid. You might want to try directed orders at one of the other houses.

The biggest bite is commissions not some pisant amount you think you're losing because of an imagined dark pool diddling your trades. In fact what you just told me is that you are getting fills at better than your limit order, and you're complaint is? You feel like your being taken, hahaha. No really your best bet is to go with best execution and lowest commissions and forget the perceived slight of the HFT. For fucks sakes its better than the quote unquote specialist (step all over my trade) system that Warren "big dady warbucks" Buffett loved so much.

.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 20:06 | 2579487 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the spread is NOT narrowed. Obviously your reading comprehension should improve. Your ideal price WON'T be hit because you've shown your hand and they didn't show theirs. You NEVER get the winning price because they see your orders.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:41 | 2578497 yogibear
yogibear's picture

"The SEC should be shut down."

The SEC would much more competent at rating porn sites and porn stars. On occasion their prodded by the higher ups to find a trader they can jail. 


Sun, 07/01/2012 - 13:56 | 2578813 Xanthias
Xanthias's picture

My broker has never been able to explain to me all the a/h "bad quotes," such as on the SPY last Fri. spiking down repeatedly to 133.  Is it about this?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ever-wonder-who-controls-endless-gunnin...

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 20:05 | 2579483 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

My FB put would have done very well if those downticks to 19 had lasted long enough. As it is I didn't get triggered but I didn't get raped by HFT's either.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:01 | 2578831 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

More Equity Rally Expected.

Any traders predicting a multi month equity rally apart from me ?

As of June 30th I am.

Last week was the turning point.

Further equity upside and USDX weakness expected this year according to my analysis.

However the SPX big picture remains very bearish and unfortunately this will not change.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-24/market-analysis

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:34 | 2578905 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

The writer needs to work on his writing style and grammar. Based on this excerpt alone

I think I'll pass on the book. 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:53 | 2578932 Stagflationary
Stagflationary's picture

Phhhuuullllease...

Trading Machines was (is? are they around?) primarily an options trading firm. Bodek's resume is that of a super-sophisticated trader who has experience with dozens of electronic exchanges, and judging by the resumes of his employees on linkedin they had decades of cumulative experience between them. The special order types are available on public documentation by the various venues...

 

It's not as if he's some naive statarb quant who's surprised you can't keep collecting maker fees and spreads without trying, and he most certainly isn't a retail broker like Schwab. 

 

If this is what the book is based on, it's a piece of crap.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:16 | 2578967 IthinkMyHeadsGo...
IthinkMyHeadsGonnaExplode's picture

And you thought they wouldn't?

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 18:25 | 2579345 Socrates
Socrates's picture

The book explains what they do and is a service to investors. Now, those who know have to tell others.

 

Here's what happens: http://tinyurl.com/c4awdgv

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 21:31 | 2579592 optionmillionaires
optionmillionaires's picture

Its all rigged... just follow the mojo and stop trading from the headlines... LNKD going to $150+ by the end of the summer.. one of the many irrational moves coming.. kick yourself later ~

Watch: http://bit.ly/HizlUe

 

 

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:31 | 2580043 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Not a chance. You roll the dice a million times and take credit when it looks good for you.

Maybe I can interest you in some shares of Failbook or a luxury condo built under a bridge?

Fool. you'll be kicking yourself later.

The market is NOT irrational. Most people are dumbfucks who can't comprehend what they're looking at.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 23:02 | 2579707 Dane17
Dane17's picture

It's amazing to read this. I have a "fun" investing account of companies I like(smith and Wesson, sturm ruger....).

I noticed about 2-3 years ago no matter how I placed my order it would almost always be filled at the least advantageous price for me. Very annoying.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:18 | 2580036 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I've seen a lag of no more than 2 seconds and that's not enough with the price-slippage to bother me. If I want to get a bid filled for 10.00 and it gets filled for 10.02 in the mean time during order execution this will NOT end my trade or ruin my day.

What makes you so sensitive, or so whiney?

My trades have been off by 0.02 at most and no more than 5% of the time. It would have to be off by $1.00 to piss me off and 0.10 to even concern me. Almost every time I get precisely the bid I'm looking for and when I don't it's ALWAYS because I chose a market-order so there'd be no limit order sitting there to hint at the HFT's.

Seriously, stop crying like a little girl.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 05:40 | 2580020 TJ00
TJ00's picture

The book looks interesting, but no Kindle version for me to satisfy my instant need for gratification :(

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:40 | 2584045 GovtMediaLiars
GovtMediaLiars's picture

Check these out:

60 second binary options

How about that for "investing"? haha. Now that right there is getting so close to pure gambling that there can hardly be a distinction.
To each their own for sure. And on these, I think I'll pass. Probably fun...but expensive fun...

Cheers!

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 10:08 | 2642338 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

Absurd knuckleheads

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!