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Dear HFT, Please Explain This

Tyler Durden's picture


From Nanex

Dear HFT, Please Explain This

On August 25, 2011 at 15:45:48, in a one second period of time, there were more than 10,000 quotes and exactly zero trades in DELL. Close inspection of these quotes reveals something very disturbing. This cannot be dismissed as a computer problem or glitch. This can't be explained as stupidity or some oversight. It is not pinging for hidden liquidity. And it's certainly not price discovery. As far as we can tell, it's not adding liquidity or narrowing the bid/ask spread.

What caused this blast of 10,000 quotes in DELL appears deliberate. Of the 10,000 quotes, the bid and ask prices remain the same. The bid size also remains constant except for one change after the first 7,000 or so quotes. The only real variation is the ask size. Not a simple 2 step variation, but one that repeats in a mathematical pattern with a long cycle. This makes it difficult to detect, but it also confirms that it must be emanating from a single source.

There are approximately 4,000 stocks that quote during active trading. Which means 40 million quotes/second if just one of the 9 exchanges allow this nonsense to spread to all 4,000 symbols. You would need 40 gigabits per second of bandwidth to receive data at that rate. Unfortunately, we think it's just a matter of time, because events like this one in Dell are no longer isolated or rare. And it doesn't look like there are any grown-ups in charge. 

DELL - Dell, Price and Sizes

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Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:41 | 1602467 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Well nothing to see hear move along

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:48 | 1602498 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I really cannot understand why this crap is not illegal.  Makes no sense that computers can make phony bids.  And they ask us why we buy gold and silver.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:18 | 1602601 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Think of all the revenue you'd have by taxing every one of these computer 'transactions' at even a minimal 10 cents......  The budget deficit would vanish in short order.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:28 | 1602634 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

that would require integrity somewhere in our political system and the will to enforce it ... rare as the dodo bird

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:42 | 1602670 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

the only way to win?


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:21 | 1602804 rocker
rocker's picture

HFT = "High Fucking Treason" against Honest Investors.

Where is the guillotine.  Make it a long rope and deep ditch.  Off with their heads.  Eh.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:57 | 1603000 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

best way to end up with a million bucks in the stock market?


start with $100 million (preferably other-peoples-money)

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:13 | 1602781 Irwin Fletcher
Irwin Fletcher's picture

The hedge funds pay the math PhDs the big bonuses to write the C++ code to calculate the transaction costs. The government collects the transaction costs from the exchanges and uses the leverage gained from the monetary velocity of the transaction costs to empower the transitory increases in the budget deficit. Thinking is bad. Must stop now.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 04:12 | 1603170 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Think of all the revenue you'd have by taxing every one of these computer 'transactions' at even a minimal 10 cents......  The budget deficit would vanish in short order.


Not a penny would go to paying off the deficit.  They would just find new things to waste money on.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:26 | 1602614 mikla
mikla's picture

I really cannot understand why this crap is not illegal. 

It *is* illegal.  You can't post a quote without the intent to have it filled.  You can't post quotes that intentionally manipulate the price.  You can't post quotes that disrupt orderly trading.  These offers are posted, and then immediately canceled, for the purpose of (1) manipulating the price, (2) hindering market price discovery, (3) prohibiting other traders from hitting a price before *you* do.  HFT only works because "skimming the delta" lets you screw everybody in the "price drift" only as long as nobody else can figure out what's going on (only as long as they can't figure out what you're doing to manipulate the price).

Just as there is currently no accounting and no reserve requirements (we literally have no standards of any kind for banking and corporate reporting), there are no regulators.  Actually, the regulators are "in" on the fraud, because the system is currently only functioning *because of* the fraud.

The curious reader should review that previous sentence until it is understood.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:31 | 1602638 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Actually, the regulators are "in" on the fraud, because the system is currently only functioning *because of* the fraud.

What is telling is the your use of the word "system" and not "market" in describing the trading environment. Your analysis is spot on. No longer do we have a market but rather a system.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:34 | 1602846 JW n FL
Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:12 | 1603012 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Of course....that's what the SEC is paid to do.

The problem is....God is watching:

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 08:20 | 1603383 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

the problem is... a LOT! of "We the People" have Rope and know how to tie a knot!

Then God can have them!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:13 | 1602706 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[Actually, the regulators are "in" on the fraud, because the system is currently only functioning *because of* the fraud.]---mikla

Thank you for your post, mikla.

This same game of "Hush, or you'll wake my parents" is being practiced across the globe by those in-the-know.

The market is broken.  Gone.  Done.  But, try to explain that to the average person.  Impossible.  The bankers and CBs' age-old use of Complexity for Cover is working perfectly. 

Thomas Jefferson warned us about this as Alexander Hamilton and his crony bankers and financier friends were plotting and sowing the seeds of public deceit as the ink was still drying on the US Constitution. 

Benedict Arnold was a traitor to our cause for Independence.  Later, Hamilton was a traitor to Liberty


Not unlike Arnold, Hamilton was a heroic officer of the Revolutionary War.  Finally betraying his country.  Deceiving even his friend Pres. George Washington, Sec of Treasury Hamilton was trusted by Washington to advise him in matters of money. 


Jefferson's image belongs on a gold or silver US mint bullion coin.  Hamilton's image resides appropriately on the fiat FRN ten-dollar bill.



Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:33 | 1602839 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So you are saying that what you call a "quote", everyone else in the world calls a "bid"?

Why on Earth would they switch terms like that?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:03 | 1602903 mikla
mikla's picture

So you are saying that what you call a "quote", everyone else in the world calls a "bid"?

In the loose sense, we are talking about "bid quotes" and "ask quotes" (so "quote" can be synonymous for either).

True, the "quoted price" historically represents the last point at which the highest-bid and lowest-ask "met" in a transaction for a stock.  For example:

The issue is that these high-volume broadcasts are for the sole purpose to cost competitors  milliseconds (and nanoseconds) while giving yourself an advantage (front-running and skimming through price drift).  You don't intend for your quotes to be filled.  You immediately withdraw all your offers after "flooding" the lines with noise.  That's HFT.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:04 | 1602912 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Thanks, JohnG explained it to me below.  I was thinking the algos were (not) buying rahter than (not) selling.  Now it makes perfect sense, and I can see why it is illegal.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:25 | 1602619 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Oh, but it is NOT legal:


A quote displayed without the intent to trade is in blatant violation of this rule.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:20 | 1602803 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So the act of getting a quote is implicitly a bid?  That doesn't make sense to me.  Unless by "quote" they really mean "order".  

It seems to me that getting a quote, and declining to trade based on the price presented by the counterparty in that quote should not be illegal, nor should it have any effect on the markets.  Only placed/winning bids should effect the market.  I am aware of the fact that yanked bids move the market--but they shouldn't.  This seems to be a problem with the market.  Prices should only move based on completed trades, not aborted ones.  Further, if these guys are doing a bunch of annoying shit like requesting quotes millions of times per second, I would think they would just be banned from the exchange.

But then, the fact that anyone plays in this rigged paper market doesn't make sense to me either.  

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:04 | 1603007 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

When I was in lumber wholesale/retail the most important concept was "point of sale" POS.  This was the exact moment in time when a transaction was executed, and was very significant in everything that followed.  "Executed means SOLD... the bullet exited the barrel.   Lumber prices change daily, hourly, or even continuously (on the purchasing side).    But intent to buy is meaningless in all ramifications. 

Which billing period does a credit card transaction fall in, for example?...when you put something on a wish list on Amazon?   Try telling a banker your intent to pay his installment was within the grace period.  The idea that they use "intent to buy" as a basis for price discovery (whether in HFTs or futures contracts), is nothing other than halariously absurd!  The bankers themselves must be amazed that it would be accepted by the public.   No wonder they are so fucking arrogant.  They think we are complete morons.  Maybe they're right?


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 06:31 | 1603227 Bob
Bob's picture

They're not entirely right, but definitely more than half right, imo. 

The "public" does not understand the workings of the market as a whole, much less this kind of arcane minutia.  But don't blame the public for that--it's what separates the common man from "investors" and what justifies all the money made in the markets, right?

It's not "the public's" responsibility to do something about it.  It's those in the know who have that burden and are the only ones positioned to do anything about it.  Unfortunately, most in the "investor" community celebrated the shifts in public policy that led to this place.  Financialization of the US economy was all good until "investors" themselves started running into trouble against unfair competition at the hands of transnational corporations and machines.

Sound familiar?  It's very similar to what labor faced in the past 30 years with outsourcing, Unfair Trade Agreements, demolition of pension systems and so on.  Applying the same standard to the markets, here "competition" seems to be coming full circle in a very similar way to bite those who so fanatically promoted it for other people. 

The "public" is primarily concerned with getting decent jobs.  How many "investors" lie awake at night worrying for them or their families? 

Karma may be a bitch, but don't expect any love, compassion or cries for "fairness" from the public on behalf of wronged "investors." 

It is profoundly sad, but the public feels more than a little hope that hurricane Irene will take out NYC for good.  That tells you what you need to know about the public. 

Unfortunately, it tells you more than you want to know about investors.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 10:09 | 1603851 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

The "public" does not understand the workings of the market as a whole, much less this kind of arcane minutia.  But don't blame the public for that--

Yeah, i understand what you are saying, but i am more and more inclined to think the public NEEDS to understand this arcane BS.  People need to take personal responsibily to understand economics, as they should take responsibilty to understand gardening, personal health, child rearing, home maintainence, personal defence, etc, etc.  I was as guilty  of negligence as anyone.  There is a social meme that says "because i worked all day, i have no further responsibilties when i get home.  I throw a little money at these other responsibilities, and let those specialists take care of them."  Not good. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 11:52 | 1604281 Bob
Bob's picture

Agreed, but in this technocrat society such complex issues are deferred to "experts" who make the decisions themselves.  The lay public is structurally excluded from the table . . . and the corporate media makes sure they only get the minutes of last week's meeting in passing.  With all references to human reality fully redacted.

I agree it's bad.  What commoner would have ever agreed to the policies that have destroyed our real economy and gutted our wealth for the benefit of so few? 

We have become such a nation of self-serving liars that even being conversant in the issues brings no resolution, though.  Look at discussions around here.  Crazy misreads of the problems prevail (and sincerity does not transform crazy into anything better than it started life as.)  Look how many people see what's happening as socialism!

At this point, I see no hope for improvement for the society as a whole.  What it's going to take is a crash that wipes out the upper middle class investor sycophant who has supported this monstrous process from the start. 

Only then will he change his tune.  Problem is that, as the boy who never cried wolf during many years of culling of the herd, nobody is going to listen to him then. 

How awful the epiphany must be that in spite of your self-righteous pretensions you were in reality nothing more than a dingleberry on the ass of the elite who served an essential purpose only in delegitimizing the claims of those "below" you . . . until you were no longer needed.  


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 11:31 | 1604363 Bob
Bob's picture

btw, the "you" is strictly rhetorical, nothing personal meant in that RR!

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:25 | 1602622 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture
  1. HF algo programmers/traders are bored, so they are making HFT Art.
  2. HF intern is getting initiated to the live markets
  3. This is a distraction piece for ZH readers while Buffett gets insider private deal ($5B with $300M divds + option to buy more at the bottom prices) on a publicly traded stock...again


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:05 | 1602751 JohnG
JohnG's picture

4.  This is an algo gone mad.  A programming error.  Beginner mistake that didn't choke the algo and was very fucking lucky it shut down before more time elapsed.

If you're trying to game the system better hire some experienced programmers, this sort of error can wipe a firm clean OUT.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:47 | 1602876 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

5. It was a successful test of a hack designed to bring electronic markets down when used on a wide scale.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:19 | 1602944 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Bingo.  I'm just wondering who initiates the quotes.  The CQS should show the broker ID.

Wonder where it came from, and I'm actually terrified that I might be right in my conjecture.

Nanex?  Where's these come from?

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:20 | 1602946 JohnG
JohnG's picture

ps.  The ID can be spoofed, it's just a packet.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 02:55 | 1603123 Black Friday
Black Friday's picture

I think this is proof that cheaters actually do prosper.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:58 | 1602535 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

shazam uses speech recognition  by collating spikes and troughs to form a audio fingerprint.


perhaps the algo is trying to build a monotone fingerprint in which is seems like noise, but may execute @ that bid/ask in the near future, masking its trade, as other algo have no way to detect the signature from the noise.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:27 | 1602623 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

Or perhaps the hooker sprawled over the keyboard while getting nailed from behind by HFT man before meeting the wife and kids for dinner and a show....

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:50 | 1602688 SMG
SMG's picture

Tyler, thank you for exposing this.  Someone will listen eventually, NEVER give up on this.  One day the world will be better, as long as the idealists NEVER give up.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:42 | 1602470 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

damn , i need that system, my EA in MT4 does not works that fast.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:42 | 1602472 GiantWang
GiantWang's picture

Skynet is now running the stock market.  Soon terminators will come after anyone who makes a profit in the market.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:19 | 1602607 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Skynet was right - humans are the enemy.... (at leasrt some of them)

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 07:32 | 1603298 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Either humans are the enemy...or the human race is a virus. And the important question: do we deserve to survive? There comes a time when you cannot run from the things that you have done.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:30 | 1602966 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

>Dear HFT, Please Explain This

"I"m sorry Dave, I can't do that".

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:43 | 1602474 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

What's funny is that the sine function used actually is pretty expensive computationally. So it seems like a wasteful flourish to me. That must be one hell of a fast machine if you can afford that sine call 10,000 times a second.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:52 | 1602520 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

You just make a table, and look up the values....Old DSP hand here.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:04 | 1602558 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

not really just a fast machine but many of them. If you think of Google having 100,000s just to search for web pages what do you think someone wanting to control the financial markets markets would put together with unlimited budgets. Also keep in mind, just as Google pre-processes to provide instant results, so do financial manipulators. It is not just the algorythm doing the work on the fly but also pre-processed responses as well and pre-planned attacks.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 03:24 | 1603138 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I'm thinking they would use something like this: Speed is what they're after, not servicing 700 million requests for websites about Lady Gaga's pubic hair.

Looking at the brochure for this supercomputer, it states power consumption at 45-54.1kW. So for the bank shown at Cray's website to run for a year, it would consume a bit under half a million kW hours.

I wonder just how much electrical energy is wasted, just wasted, in these firms that are not only completely non-productive, but are parasites on people who actually are productive. How much of all the energy that this country consumes actually goes to something, anything, with real productive value?

Anyway, I hope the HFTs break the entire system. Before it breaks us.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 07:32 | 1603295 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

Don't worry, once they break the ETF and Futures markets, they will use these nice supercomputers to CENTRALLY plan all production worldwide.

Utopic Communism will be their target.

Damn, Orwell missed it by 30 years, enough to make a generation forget. hmmm.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:23 | 1602615 kote
kote's picture

Pre-record the sequence.  No processing required during playback.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:27 | 1602630 JohnG
JohnG's picture

It's precomputed and indexed.  Fast, fast, fast.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:31 | 1602835 pettolicious
pettolicious's picture

That's what she said...

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:42 | 1602863 JohnG
JohnG's picture

No, she said stop.  Please.  Don't.  Stop.  Please.  Don't stop.  Please don't stop.  Faster.  Please don't.  Stop.  Faster..........

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 10:14 | 1603901 jakeman
jakeman's picture

Like the olde, great college drinking song: "Oh, please, surrender, do not touch me"

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:45 | 1602679 g
g's picture

Yes a look up table is faster. However, 10,000's of sine and/or trig functions is not that many per second. The average computer can process far more per second than 10,000. Benchmarks are easy enough to produce if requested. I am working on some software using the orthographic projection (lots of sin and cos functions) that processes 400,000 navaids in a fraction of a second and renders them, on an old AMD 939 socket machine.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:30 | 1602833 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Supersparc machine laungage junkie......:)  Try that shit with a discontinuous function why don'tcha.  (A lot of these malicious HFT programs/scalping algos are by definition)

Need some help with that vis bub?

Yeah, thro it down g, I'll fuck you up!



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:04 | 1602911 g
g's picture

The point is that none of this imprsses me w regards to processing power or capability of any given box. Bandwidth limits are the bottleneck. Any rusty old box in a colo will do as long as the programmer is not a dumb ass. HFT needs to be outlawed. ZH has been preaching the good word for years.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:10 | 1602926 g
g's picture

For example on our dedicated box we run email. web. flight simulation, voip, vpn's, database servers, and virtual machines. Fact is the box is at idle most of the time even under high network load. Machines these days have more than enough power, the bottleneck is the network, hard drives, etc.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:39 | 1602973 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Thing is...these servers are colo'd literally across the street from the exchange, on fiber optic conns.  The latency is at nearly lightspeed.  Almost no network delay.  After it's in memory, hard drive is extraneous to the crooks.  It's the exchange that has to log it.  When the exchange is flooded, that's the latency that can be exploited.  It all has too be looged before it can be fed to the CQS, and therefore to other exchages.  When this happens, it breaks the market.  This is the BAD side of HFT.  The exchanges cannot keep up with this.  I have yet to find a way around this/  Maybe millions of $ of flash mem, but I'm not even confident that would stop it.


What WILL stop it is min display time.  A 1 sec min would do it.  10K/sec would be defeated.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 08:23 | 1603389 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

both of you are missing the silicon, pass around.. plug in.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:14 | 1602934 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Read my comments here.  HFT is a misunderstood.  It is two separate things.  Legit HFT, and crooks that game the system.

And this programmer was a dumbass.  I'd have to kill him if he worked in a legit shop.  Then drown him, hang him, and burn his fucking carcass.  But that's just me. :)

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:43 | 1602479 peak experience
peak experience's picture

Reminds me of that ringing in the ears just before one faints. 

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:44 | 1602480 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture



It clicks on the mouse and buys/sells some skin, or else it gets the hose again.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:57 | 1602538 Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

Not bad.

It does as it's told...

Click the &@%#ing mouse!!!!

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:44 | 1602483 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

My bad, that doesn't need to get called on the fly. That can get set up ahead of time.


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:47 | 1602489 mynhair
mynhair's picture

B/A sizes mean something?  Thought it was just another column for lights to flash on.

So pretty.....

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:13 | 1602780 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Is there a way to change the colors? When you own puts the red is so much prettier.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:46 | 1602490 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:46 | 1602491 Cdad
Cdad's picture

The primary answer to the overall question of why the HFT does this:  so that no one can see the actual market for the shares.  

The secondary answers range from trying to collapse or accelerate stock prices by spooking other algos, or hiding certain transactions across various exchanges [because the SEC is incompetent], etc, etc.

We are almost certainly within days of another flash crash.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:55 | 1602529 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

"We are almost certainly within days of another flash crash."

How many times has that been said over the past year? Why days? This shit has been going on nonstop since the last one. Bring on the flash crash.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:29 | 1602637 Cdad
Cdad's picture

If you have been watching both the flow of funds and the surging book [quote stuffing back and forth], then you would know what I am talking about.  

The ghost in the machine is rising in volume and frequency.  

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:34 | 1602842 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

If you believe this put some money on it, I have. Two contracts of NDX weeklies cost $100 plus commission this morning.  My rough calculations say a 20% down-and-closed crash makes them worth $50,000. That was two days of coverage at 500:1 pay out. I don't think the chances of a crash are that small what with Bernanke, Irene, GDP, Greece, the Euro and Romania. <I just added Romania so it would spell BIGGER> Maybe 100:1 but the option pricing structure doesn't seem very robust for fat tail events. This is better paying and more entertaining than a lottery ticket. It also satisfies the ZH urge to do battle, at least symbolically with the corrupt system. BTW if anyone out there can show where my logic is off please let me know.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:44 | 1602979 walküre
walküre's picture

You will not collect on your puts. There. Simple. Don't try and beat the system. Ignore it and invest your hard earned money in real assets that they cannot get their fat fingers on.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:56 | 1602999 KowPie
KowPie's picture

Should have used "Ribya". That's how the Chinese pronounce it.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:47 | 1602495 HedgeFun
HedgeFun's picture

Ironically this crime was performed on a Dell mainframe.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:49 | 1602501 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Yeah, but can they quote stuff gale force winds?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:49 | 1602504 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

This algo seems to be fishing for other algos by the flaoting ask.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:50 | 1602507 trade the day
trade the day's picture

Does anyone think the currency market is this manipulated?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:55 | 1602531 rubyruffruff
rubyruffruff's picture


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:12 | 1602582 newark18
newark18's picture

yessir the banks completely control the FX market.  

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:16 | 1602790 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

AFA HFT is concerned, I actually think...  Probably not?

The FOREX market is decentralized and HFT requires colocated servers.  So unless you could co-locate on all FOREX servers and somehow co-ordinate each computer, I'm pretty sure you couldn't pull off this shit there.

Also, per TD, massive sovreign intervention, REAL attemps at manipulation, are now measured in minutes.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:51 | 1602510 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Hmmm.... it seems like a whole lot (or maybe all?) holders of Dell stock want to sell their shares at prices that are too far above the level that a whole lot of potential buyers are willing to pay.

Maybe Dell is gettnig ready to announce that Steve Jobs has a new job.

Or, maybe the whole stock market has turned into a corrupt game of "sodomize the sheep"


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:56 | 1602532 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

It already has been one.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:52 | 1602511 Cheater5
Cheater5's picture

Exchanges should put in a cancellation/ C&R fee.  When another big flash crash occurs and the SEC finally figures out quote-stuffing they are going to ream the exchanges for letting this happen.  These guys need to get out ahead of this.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:51 | 1602512 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i did that to a high volume printer one time with few lines of fortran. the admin was frantically fumbling for the kill switch because the damn thing was about to break loose of its mounts. this shit is malicious.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:51 | 1602514 adr
adr's picture

the poor computer flatlined. no wait there is a small sign of life, the heart was beating too fast to be detected at first.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:52 | 1602518 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Source likely = China ... via some sort of software attempt to fuck up our electronic markets. Would anyone actually be surprised?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:24 | 1602750 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

surprised if they beat OUR pigs to the trough....

still amazes me how u.s. intelligence services, charged with protecting the country, let themselves be punk'd DAILY by the vain douchebags of Wall Street, who've taken the country to the edge of destruction from's got to rub at least a FEW of them the wrong way....i'm sure the rest of them just salute

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:53 | 1602521 myne
myne's picture

What better way to collude than in the open talking the common language with only insiders understanding the meaning?

Think about it this way, if you're trying to buy drugs on a phone that may or may not be listened into or recorded, what are you going to say?

1) "Hey buddy, when can I come get that coke we talked about?"

2) "Hey buddy, Thinking I might drop around and play xbox for a bit if that's cool?"

If you picked option two, then you're smart enough to know that the conversation must be completely safe to say infront of anyone, but the meaning must only be understood by the parties involved.

Now, if you're going to game the stock market, how would you hide your collusion messages and still deliver them in an innocent and open manner but still achieve instant interpretation by your friends?

Well, picking up the phone and having a group conference to do this runs the risk of triggering alarm bells. Multiple group conferences between "competing" entities would quickly rouse suspicion, wiretap warrents and investigation. Putting a designated number of untradable quotes on a certain stock? Completely under the radar. Completely innocent at face value, but it still delivers the message which others act upon.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:13 | 1602589 Carmagnole
Carmagnole's picture

You mean someone sent the text of the bernank's speech tomorrow to a few select friends by encrypting it ON a Dell and IN Dell ?

Fiendishly clever, much better than a double ROT13 cypher. The SEC will have to hire some NSA-level geeks to be able to function. Bullish for the job market

/sarc aside, this is a frightenly plausible explanation

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:43 | 1602865 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

And small discrepancies in the sine wave, like missing pixels in a photo, are then decoded on the magic decoder ring.

Again "/sarc aside, this is a frightenly plausible explanation". We have to hope that the market isn't being brought to it's knees by two love-lorn geeks trying to set up a dinner date on the sly.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 07:41 | 1603312 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

Hope you can decode when the black helicopters will pick you up.

You think too much.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:53 | 1602522 tmosley
tmosley's picture

What does it all MEAN, Basil?

What is the harm in a lot of quotes going out?

Not defending or justifying, just asking.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:57 | 1602537 mynhair
mynhair's picture

It means I can't get a fill.  Sick n tired of watching fills a penney below me, before mine fills.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:06 | 1602564 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How does a robot requesting a lot of quotes stop you from getting fills?  Seems to me that they have to bid to get fills.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:34 | 1602645 JohnG
JohnG's picture

With respect, please see my comment above re: quotes.  It's illegal.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:36 | 1602654 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Plus this:


"Of the 10,000 quotes, the bid and ask prices remain the same"


10K in one sec is absurd.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:31 | 1602834 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Sure it's absurd, but I don't see why it would be illegal.  It seems to me that this would be equivalent to an auction where a robot in the bidding crowd is asking what the price is 10,000 times a second.  That would be a sideshow, as it is being answered by the exchange's computer while other business is going on.  It seems that the problem would only occur if when, as the commenter above said, he was actually placing a bid and welching on it (which I would think would just get him kicked out of the exchange, and likely get his master's banned as well if it happened repeatedly).

Your above post said that it was illegal to request quotes without the intent to trade, but that doesn't make sense to me.  I request quotes from vendors all the time, and I don't necessarily buy if I don't like the price.  I don't see how this is any different.  Sure, they are gaming the system, trying to see when someone else makes a trade, but that seems like an issue that would simply get them kicked out of the exchange.

But the exchanges seem to love these guys.  I don't understand why they are allowed to operate like this.  It's like having a candy store encouraging some dude with a bunch of rats to let them run around in their store.  They have made it so that no-one wants to go into their store, even if they had any candy left, covered in rat shit or not.  Even if they didn't get into the bins with the candy, the annoyance to the other customers is enough to ruin their business.  Why do the exchanges pay these guys to make trades?  Where is all of that money coming from, since they have driven away their actual customers?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:54 | 1602892 JohnG
JohnG's picture

"Your above post said that it was illegal to request quotes without the intent to trade....."


You may be misunderstanding.  The algo is not "requesting" quotes.  Rather, it is displaying quotes with no intent to trade.  It's like when you initiate a limit order.  Your quote is displayed.  No one is required to match it, market maker or no.

"But the exchanges seem to love these guys...."

The ligitimate liquidity providers yes.  Not thes sorts of crooks.

"Why do the exchanges pay these guys to make trades?..."

It's not these guys that get exchange rebates, rather it's the legit trade houses that are rebated for providing liquidity.  These fucks do not provide liquidity.

See my other posts on this thread.  This was a wild algo.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:00 | 1602900 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ha ha, oh wow.  Suddenly it makes sense.  The robot is the seller here.

So, these quotes, were they over-writing each other, or was it offering to sell 10,000 separate lots per second?  And where were these quotes going?  To specific buyers, or up onto the electronic equivalent of a whiteboard for all to see (I would presume that all could see it, as Nanex saw it)?

I really appreciate your insight.  Thanks for taking the time to educate me and everyone reading.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 07:41 | 1603310 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Yes, big ups for everyone here at ZH. Good luck - to us all.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:00 | 1602545 thesapein
thesapein's picture

It would be like going to a live auction where you bid by holding up your card while the fast talking guy... you know, like in the James Bond films... except there's an empty chair in the room with a super fast robot arm that won't stop bidding. Oh, and it has no money, at least, none it intends to spend. It just want to bid things up. Also, also, imagine that somehow you can bid things down, as well.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:04 | 1602559 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That would be a bid.  The article said they are just getting quotes.  I don't play paper any more, and never had to deal with inner workings of the system when I did, but a bid and a quote are different in every other realm that I can think of.  I don't see why they are the same here.

Yes, robots making false BIDS is bad, but that doesn't seem to be what this article is about.  Unless they are just paying really close attention to when the stock changes price so that they CAN sweep in and frontrun someone.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:11 | 1603014 thesapein
thesapein's picture

So what exactly is a quote? Can you explain it in terms of my James Bond film? Is a quote just the faster talking guy repeating bids? Now, I'm confused. Somebody please explain to me with patience what a quote is, please!

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:39 | 1603062 trav7777
trav7777's picture

a quote is a bid or's an order, just like if you did it.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 13:51 | 1604868 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Okay, so the difference then is just in making them different so that the game can go further? A quote can act like a bid but it's a quote, got it.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:22 | 1602812 ml8ml8
ml8ml8's picture

Its funny that we keep seeing these stories put out by ZH and Nanex, but they fail to answer the obvious question that you ask.  I think ZH and Nanex know, perhaps quite specifically and who is doing it too, but are afraid to make any specific accusations lest they open themselves up for libel liability or perhaps cause the offenders to change their behavior before they are caught in the act. 

Personally, I think the HFT traders are using this in an arbitrage play.  They jam up a market maker on one exchange (or an indepedent market makere) and freeze time for a split second while the prices change on an alternate exchange.  Then they arbitrage the price diff between those two exchanges or market makers. They might even be able to juice an arb trade that already exists. Its got to take a seriously fast network and highly coordinated algorithms.

Just my two cents.


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:36 | 1602847 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That is an interesting point.

Again, this seems to be an exchange problem, and those doing this sort of thing should simply be banned from the exchange.  That would promptly put them out of business, and all of this crap would stop in an instant.

Where is the money coming from that causes the exchanges to tolerate this insanity?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:59 | 1602854 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

"Its funny that we keep seeing these stories put out by ZH and Nanex, but they fail to answer the obvious question that you ask. I think ZH and Nanex know, perhaps quite specifically and who is doing it too"


Who is watching what 'data stream' with what kind of equipment and what kind of ID's are showing up (e.g. IP addresses, vendor codes etc)


My own answer, but first, some background on NANEX:

"NxCore (pronounced n'core) is a high-performance, real-time streaming datafeed (ticker plant) that brings the whole market to your workstation or desktop computer. NxCore is Nanex's base product and excels in delivering and databasing all the quotes and trades transmitted by the exchanges, even in the hyper-active U.S. Option market (OPRA) which now transmits over 1,700,000 quotes per second, and 6 billion quotes per trading day."


NANEX knows ... unless the feeds from the exchanges are stripped of identifying buyers, quote requesters etc ID/names ...


At the least, some exchange knows.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:41 | 1603064 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes that is the point of trading rapidly, to be able to pull quotes before they can fill and to arbitrage

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:53 | 1602523 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This is perfectly normal.

'BenBernank' Markets and all.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:54 | 1602524 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

It's the machines getting ready to take over. We humans have screwed things up for so long that

the machines have decided to put an end to it. All hail the machines....

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:14 | 1603020 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Not that long actually. And not all humans. Just the ones who were meant to.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:54 | 1602526 navy62802
navy62802's picture

BTW - How did you find this Tyler? Do you have some Dell contacts? How do you know what to look for and where to look for it?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:02 | 1602552 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

If he told you, he'd have to kill you. Or Marla would, anyway.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:19 | 1602605 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

Read much??

From Nanex

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 21:58 | 1602539 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture


Right now, "Europe's financial system is insolvent," Scott Minerd, CIO of the diversified financial services firm Guggenheim Partners, told CNBC Thursday.

"If we mark the assets of the European banks to market, the liabilities of the banks exceed the assets well beyond their capital cushion," said Minerd.


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:01 | 1602549 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

All of this stuff is high tech bullshit.  Better to return to paper bids. Nonsense. 

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:26 | 1602625 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

better yet to eliminate the DTCC ownership crap and allow people to have the control back

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:01 | 1602551 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Don't worry, the teenaged COO of the SEC will be all over this.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:06 | 1602568 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Tick Rate Hits New Highs, Indicating HFT Activity

Traders Magazine Online News, August 12, 2011

James Armstrong

Bloomberg is reporting an unprecedented number of quotes in recent days, rising to new highs on Wednesday even as overall volume was down slightly, an indication of unfilled orders and the likely presence of active high frequency traders.

“The tick volume is up dramatically, when the actual volume of shares traded isn’t at the highest levels that we’ve seen,” Nagrath said. “Every time an order goes out, even though it’s canceled, for us it counts as another tick, another quote.”

Wednesday set an all-time high of 43.7 billion ticks. That was about one and a half times the number of ticks recorded during last year’s flash crash. Yesterday, data showed about 38 billion ticks, according to Bloomberg.

Click for chart <------------ Great PDF Chart of Ticks 2008 Fincial Crash / Flash Crash in 2009 / Japan Tsunami as well in this chart for comparison.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:07 | 1602571 ReeferMac
ReeferMac's picture

Hahahahahaha! Grown ups in charge. LOL indeed Sir!

Thank you, I needed that.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:08 | 1602572 Kat
Kat's picture

Not taking issue with your general premise (quote stuffing) as I don't consider myself familiar enough with the issue to provide an educated comment.

I do take issue with this: " As far as we can tell, it's not adding liquidity or narrowing the bid/ask spread."

No market participant is obligated to add liquidity or narrow the bid/ask spread. Both are a by-product of market participation.  To trade, I must better the bid or offer or I never get done. People compete with each other to trade.

The argument that HFT provides liquidity is an argument that it is a by-product and not the main function or obligation of their activity.

That said, merely providing volume is not providing liquidity and whether HFT provides liquidity or not is an Empirical question.  I'm not touching that subject as I don't have enough data or familiarity with HFT - except that the SEC has pushed all market makers into the HFT world in so far as we're all forced to trade with algos to comply with the mandatory quote bands. 

But, it is disturbing that a lot of people are beginning to think that somebody is obligated to provide them with liquidity by virtue of trading.  I don't think Tyler Durden holds this asinine opinion, but it is disturbing how many people do. 

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:20 | 1602608 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

I think you are correct.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:43 | 1602673 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Market makers whether they are HFT or not are in the market specifically to add liquidity. If they step away from there role in the market too many times they will lose there right to be a market maker. Also, HFT's are not all market makers and market makers are not necessarily HFT's.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:53 | 1602681 JohnG
JohnG's picture

"No market participant is obligated to add liquidity......"


"....narrow the bid/ask spread. Both are a by-product of market participation."

Agree completely.  Better the bid or don't get filled.

"except that the SEC has pushed all market makers into the HFT world in so far as we're all forced to trade with algos to comply with the mandatory quote bands. "

Plus, it costs a damn lot of horsepower to reconcile OOB trades.

This looks to be preventing ANY trades.


You work for Wedbush Kat?



Fri, 08/26/2011 - 08:23 | 1603391 TheRipper
TheRipper's picture

No market participant is obligated to add liquidity or narrow the bid/ask spread.

That's not the point. The point is HFT lobbies hard to convince people that they benefit the market by providing liquidity and tightening the spreads. HFT says this, screams this in order to boast a positive image of themselves. So, if you as an HFT firm consistently claim that you provide liquidity and tighten spreads, then damn well right you have an obligation to do so, otherwise it's just a lie. Do you think anyone who rams 10,000 quotes a second through a stock is not HFT? And to what benefit did this server? None. If this crap didn't exist, you wouldn't have to worry about being pushed into all those rules. 

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:11 | 1602580 Blagio
Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:20 | 1602604 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

It should be obvious to everyone, SETI has been looking in all the wrong places ET is here amongst the black boxes and is quote stuffing, if only we could decipher there's no telling the knowledge we would gain.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:22 | 1602613 WhoMe
WhoMe's picture

I totally agree that the SEC is made up of a bunch of self serving imbeciles. It's stunning to think that one of the most publcized insider trading indicments of the last decade was Martha Stewart, that tells you more than anything about the state of the SEC. So how can the message that this HFT madness has to stop get across? Do we need to have the traders walk off the floor in protest during the day to get the message across? I can't believe they like the crap that is going on? One second you bought a stock the next second the floor drops out from beneath it.

It absolutely astounds me that this is allowed, but than should I be surprised? The rules have been thrown out and the banker cowboys are now running the circus playing the average trader as the fool. The markets have been made a mockery with the NYSE and others allowing HFT companies to set up local servers to give them that millisecond insider trading advantage. Is it going to take a very well publicized lawsuit against the NYSE or the SEC for allowing this electronic insider tarding and other idiocies such as quote stuffing to run amok unchecked? 



Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:27 | 1602631 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Frustrated out of work programmer/hacker experimenting with his newfound skillset..??

Coding bug that wasn't discovered in a software upgrade before it went online..??

The new normal..??

Company I work for installs new software upgrades frequently, many of which go haywire.  Cost cutting apparently doesn't allow for extensive testing & troubleshooting.  This could be similar.

You know that a programmer quant is studying this thing and working out a system to their advantage...bastards..

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:33 | 1602841 Stack Trace
Stack Trace's picture

The algo implementation was off-shored to "Get your HFT algo developed for $20! We test on your system."

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:35 | 1602648 WhoMe
WhoMe's picture

This is a great video if you have not seen it before. It really hammers home how you have an "old boys club" that probably knows what's going on in the markets is reckless and self serving however they don't care. The market is their piggy bank and nobody is going to get in their way. To He11 with rules and regulations.








Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:36 | 1602653 Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

If a bettor tried this type of fooling around at a casino in Vegas, you would probably find him dead the next day.

Wow - Vegas is a safer bet than stocks!

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:43 | 1602666 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

Could be someone pumped on blow nervously tapping on a keyboard...


Gotta do more blow

So I can do more HFTs

So I can make more profit

So I can do more blow

So I can do more HFTs

So I can make more profit

So I can do more blow

So I can do more HFTs

So I can make more profit

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:45 | 1602678 FromGaltsGulch
FromGaltsGulch's picture

Shhhh.please Tyler..stop it.


you'll wake up the SEC

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 22:48 | 1602684 Shineola
Shineola's picture

I really don't understand all of this high art and science devoted to computerized trading. 

But, here's something I do understand.   Social institutions have a life span.   Just, try to go out and find a coin operated telephone.   I've seen a few lately, but they are headed for the dust bin of history.  


The market, this entire economy, is morhping in to something totally different. 


Ten years from now what will the average stock trading look like? 


Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:11 | 1602768 JohnG
JohnG's picture

There will be no "market" in ten years.  I give it two, it's mostly broken right now.  Retail is being pushed out.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:03 | 1602738 OS2010
OS2010's picture

Practicing, man, just practicing.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:11 | 1602771 Coyote57
Coyote57's picture

Could this be testing a program that could, when desired, create something like a DENIAL OF SERVICE attack on the stock market?

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:18 | 1602799 Paul67
Paul67's picture

Sine waves are so boring, let’s see them spell zero hedge or give us the bird in these traces, now that would be impressive.


Most impressive, strong with the force this one is.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:20 | 1602801 JohnG
JohnG's picture


"This can't be explained as stupidity..."


You appear too be underestimating stupitidy.  You MUST understand that this is a beginner mistake.  An algo gone wild.  Lucky it got shut down. 

Some programmer trying to impress his supervisor for giving him the new Sparc fucked up.  It happens.

However, when it fucks up the market, it's not tolerable.  This programmer is being flogged as I type, and he'll be lucky if he keeps his job as a b/u tech.

It may have even come from a legit HFT shop.  Conjecturing.....



Yes folks, there is "legit" HFT.  But there's also scalpers.  It can be hard to tell the difference and I congratulate Nanex for detecting this.  Damn you guys must have some processing power to filter this out.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:39 | 1602853 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Thanks for the explanation.  Do you by chance know approximately how many HFT shops there are out there, and how many "traders" they usually have?  

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:05 | 1602915 JohnG
JohnG's picture

I'd GUESS maybe 20 or so?  It's a small community nonetheless.

Traders.  Probably none.  Legit HFT shops cater to institutions almost exclusively.  Tough to execute a 5MM share order efficiently WITHOUT HFT, that's what I mean by legit.  Can't just place a 5MM trade all at once.  Get you killed.

The damn scalpers are giving the HFT shops a bad name.  It's not new.  The crooks are in the last few years. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:17 | 1602941 tmosley
tmosley's picture


I suppose by "traders" I meant computers, or separate computing entities (supercomputers?  Beowolf clusters of supercomputers?), or direct data connections to the exchanges.  Hell, I don't know what I meant.  It's a whole new world of HFT.

Unlike many, I am reluctant to decry something new just because it is unfamiliar, or because some are misusing a new tool.  I want to pick it apart and see exactly what is going on, and then see if there is any fraud or aggression involved prior to making a judgement.  Thanks again for helping me to understand the concept.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:37 | 1602850 JW n FL
Thu, 08/25/2011 - 23:42 | 1602860 Stack Trace
Stack Trace's picture

N . S. H
O. O. E. Z
T. T. E. .
H. . . E
I. G. H. R
N. E

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:11 | 1602930 digalert
digalert's picture

SEC can't see the fraud for the porn.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 00:58 | 1603001 Hunch Trader
Hunch Trader's picture

New hotness: DDOSing the markets.

SEC clueless.


Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:18 | 1603025 thesapein
thesapein's picture

How does something so techinical ever get written into law or get a fair day in court? Man, stuff ike this is just always going to be around. The trick is to be on the inside, I guess. 

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 01:37 | 1603057 Market Efficien...
Market Efficiency Romantic's picture

Consider it a massive weapon that is tested, trialled, coordinated now. Once, capitalist markets blow up or someone wants to blow them up, globally coordinated, decentralized quote stuffing immediately takes out one of the cornerstones of our societies' infrastructure. It is just irrsponsible to allow such vulnerabilities and cannot be understood, similar to other security glitches prior to other major events in history. Why would a regulator allow such vulnerability if it wasn't needed for some false flag attack.

Just imagine... and here is our explanation why markets crashed, no not the Bernankster, not default or recession worries, it was all Iran and their cyberwarfare dept., it is a terrorist attack. When the inevitable strikes, you need someone to blame, why not someone you are after anyway.

This is not supposed to be a conspiracy theory, it is just questioning a major flaw in national security of most western, capalist countries.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 04:05 | 1603168 Carmagnole
Carmagnole's picture

Can someone take the complete sine wave and play it as a sound ? There seem to be some frequency variation in the small sample displayed on the max resolution picture.

I personally have no idea where to get it and how to play it, just curious.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 04:49 | 1603192 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

I take it that 40 gigabits per second of bandwidth is many, many times the multiple of the available bandwidth.

Fri, 08/26/2011 - 05:44 | 1603213 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

As J.R.Ewing said long ago

"Once you lose all integrity for yourself,the rest is a piece of cake"

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!