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Depression By The Numbers - A Poverty Bulletin

Tyler Durden's picture





 

As was already discussed last week, the number of Americans living in poverty is now at an all time high, even as the real income of the average American male worker adjusted for inflation is back to 1968 levels. But that is only the beginning. ProPublica has compiled an exhaustive bulletin summarizing the sad state of America's depressionary reality in "Our Sputtering Economy by the Numbers: Poverty Edition." For anyone wondering how we are doing now compared to "before", this is the only list needed. The results are not pretty and confirm that Bernanke is now trapped in a corner, where every incremental attempt to reflate the stock market will make ever more people on the other side of the social spectrum even poorer until finally the Arab Spring makes its lone overdue appearance in America.

From ProPublica:

 


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Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:25 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Reading those bulletpoints is less scary than simply going outside and exploring your city and neighborhood.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

No doubt. Had the misfortune of walking into a Wal-mart recently. <shudder>

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

No kidding. I had to go into one of those this weekend to grab a boat-load of candy for our Ron Paul float for the parade we were in.  I bought $100 worth of candy and I felt like I was being eyed up by every patron there. 

Plus, I felt terribly overdressed with my shoes and all. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:00 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

You have one of the best screen names...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:36 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

Once the Bernank prints another Trillion or so, the poverty level will once again rise to an anticipated level.  Never mind gas will be over $4 per gallon and anarchy erupts over commodities.

Bring it on!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 19:52 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

He's had that name since 6th grade.  ;-)

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

you bought eye candy?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 17:52 | Link to Comment Captain Planet
Captain Planet's picture

those eyes are scary and sad.

sucks when just sitting on a bench eating a sandwhich gets people looking at you like a dog begging for scraps. its a sad world for those who see misery in their daily lives, yet have enough to be comfortably fed and clothed

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:42 | Link to Comment OOONONO
OOONONO's picture

and what you see in the parking lot outside is even scarier ...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment malalingua
malalingua's picture

There was a pic of a checkpoint charlie in some of their parking lots, I thought it was a joke until I saw it. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Seriously?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:06 | Link to Comment malalingua
malalingua's picture

Here is an account of what this guy saw two years ago.  I couldn't find the vid of what I saw that was posted on Max Keiser a few months ago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO4ku_o-iJU

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

There was the news not long ago that WalMart was going to team up with some government agency to "fight crime" or something. Might be this.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Yeah. 50,000 SUVs

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I use walmart to help stave off stagflation/bi-flation...  what's the deal with wallyworld?  It shouldn't surprise you...  I've gone there all my life and don't really see anything different as far as patronage/demographics...  welcome to the morts.  About the only thing that has changed is the number of items that qualify for SNAP/government food supplements (increase)...  and, as always, the meats are terrible.  (much better at sams...  and much better than sams at a real butcher/direct source [and probably cheaper too]).

Although, I have found it difficult, on multiple occasions, to keep my mouth shut or continue smiling while some orka fat woman and/or blue hair ran my ass over in a runaway motorized cart...  apparently my feet are magnets for those things.  Hey Topgun!  You're grounded... 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment American Dissident
American Dissident's picture

The Build C H I N A Fund Thanks You!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

So I should impoverish myself to pay americans to produce the same thing for 10x as much?  This is why there is no cure to offshoring + dollar debasement...  at some point, we are left with no choice but to continue and participate in the downward spiral...

Although, I am moving to producing my own (everything) more and more...  so, technically speaking, I pay an american to produce all such items...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:08 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Exactly!   I shop some at the local Walmart...I have found some small chain grocery stores in my area that have cheaper prices on meats and produce stores like     Compare Foods  and Aldi's   also Galaxy Foods.

The walmart near me has now added a Police substation.....I don't like this so I try to stay away.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

More evidence of who the police serve and protect.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:53 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The people who pay their salaries...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:18 | Link to Comment American Dissident
American Dissident's picture

Really? "there is no cure to off shoring + dollar debasement..."  No Really? By your logic American Manufacturing should never have prospered under a strong dollar policy. Never mind the affect of NAFTA, GATT or incenting corporations to move their operations offshore to satisfy the Wall and Broad Zionist thuggery. Very Funny Indeed!  I would suggest you research whats really going on my trusty member of wrestling officialdom. And not to worry .. for I suspect sooner than later  many conspiracy theories will become conspiracy fact so you will be able to fore go the typical name calling that accompanies the process of awakening. I do applaud your becoming self sufficient though!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:52 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

American manufacturing and america post WW2 prospered because our entire manufacturing base hadn't been destroyed...  as the rest of the world has come online (often building newer and more sophisticated manufacturing facilities) we've gotten shit on...  it's as simple as that.  Think of it like water running to the lowest point on a surface.

How many export models run on strong (insert their respective currencies) policies?  Would china continue to export at the same level with a much stronger domestic currency?  Maybe for a little while...  until that water could flow to a lower point.

American exceptionalism definitely includes a fair helping of right time, right place.

I wouldn't expect the rest of the world's manufacturing base to be destroyed again...  although, I wouldn't put it past the central planners to conjure up a similar scenario.  If you're talking about implementing trade barriers and starting trade wars, then...  good luck with fighting gravity.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment American Dissident
American Dissident's picture

“While evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they (we) are accustomed”.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

A real butcher?

Do they have Walmarts in Paris, France?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Seattle doesn't have walmarts, but I know a few good butchers.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment MacchuPicchu
MacchuPicchu's picture

No, they do not.

The city of paris (the 20 districts) have laws about the maximum square footage a retail space can occupy, by category. Supermarkets, in particular, are much smaller by law than their american counterparts. I would assume this results in slightly elevated costs to consumers for products as a result of the loss of economies of scale of 'la grande surface' in terms of stocking, utilities, etc. although this is an assumption and I'm not sure how you would control for other factors. On the positive side there are benefits which I don't have to assume exist but are transparently evident to anyone who has lived in Paris. First, you're never far from a supermarket. They're all over the place. In fact you're usually so close to one that you don't have to even use public transport to get there. Second, the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker remain in business all over Paris because they're still cost competitive. Buying your meat at the butcher, your bread at the baker, and your fruits at the green grocer, who are all literally around the corner no matter where you live. Many american friends of mine laud that 'village' feel in parisian neighborhoods and I think this is a big part of the reason. I won't wax philosophical about how this absence of WalMarts keeps you feeling 'human' or whatever, there are plenty of tools on both sides of the atlantic to do that for me, and I'm also not saying the French have every problem solved, but I will say I think this particular aspect of government regulation has been truly beneficial to the residents of the city of light. (and I imagine ultimately makes for more jobs than WalMart would create for a similar population here.  

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

Luckily for "the markets," algos don't do tours on the ground.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

@gene--maybe you live in the hood, but on the surface i dont see much of a difference in the neighborhoods/cities near me.....yet

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I am seeing it creep up in a way that many don't pay attention to.  Green lush lawns are now festering with weeds.  Mulch beds that were once ornate now have the weeds growing in there.  Wives that didn't work in my neighborhood are now zooming off to retail/food service work.  It is not obvious to many, but I have been paying attention to the small details.  It looks to me that many are starting to suffer in my area from the outward appearances.

Inwardly, many have confided in me about their mortgage issues that are starting to surface.  I have been able to throw them to resources that have been helpful.  They then come back asking about credit card problems.  It's starting to hit the upper-middle class now.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

My grass is dead and a shutter has come loose. Place certainly looks kinda shabby. But perception ain't always reality... I don't want it to look like I have gold!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:25 | Link to Comment Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

The only new business I see opening on every corner are pawn shops with big signs that say "We buy Gold".  As well as all the money lending shops, smoke shops and liquor and lottery stores. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:51 | Link to Comment Blankman
Blankman's picture

The next step in the complete dismantling of your neighborhood is the dime store churches.

 

Once they start opening up the corner store churches then you know you are doomed  DOOMED!!!

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Don't forget the nail salons that seem to multiply like cockroaches.

In a 1 mile radius I must have at least 7 nail salons. I personally think it's a secret Chicom sleeper cell directive.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

Perfectly fine where I live.  I have the luxury of living in a boomer-infested city, so there's still some 'wealth' to be had floating around.  My condolences if you're trapped near peoples on the lower rungs of the social ladder.

I think I'll be fine once social collapse happens.  Old people are just like zombies.  They'll just shuffle about, trying to eat shit.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

ROFL!   I can tell you're a very delicate, sensitive individual...you are going to do fine in the next phase.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:29 | Link to Comment Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

That is what I love about Zero Hedge, the humor sometimes.  We have all sorts of disagreements over inflation vs deflation, race wars, bigotry, dems vs repubs, rich vs poor, anti semitic vs semitic, etc.  Every now and then we all get a good laugh and forget how much we hate each other.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:44 | Link to Comment European American
European American's picture

Location. Some regions of the country clearly show a state of depression. Other's, hardly at all. Where I live everyone seems oblivious to the underlying current of financial malcontent. Mall parking lots seem full, not sure if they are buying or living in there. I wouldn't care to live in any large city, though, especially where I live, an hour a way. Real Estate here is probably the largest sign post for the downward spiral of the economy. Less variety in the stores of those "specialty" food items. Wal Mart, where I get pet food has definite dwindling resources on their shelves. Thank goodness for a successful organic veggie garden this year. Nothing like eating food that was just picked. Hard to eat anything else.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Over the last twenty years, the city nearest me has went from quiet college town to "which bank/c store/liquor store/McD's was robbed at gunpoint today?" town. Shootings (gang-related) are up as well, but luckily, so far, misses are too.

Which of course, is why the police now choose to setup sobriety and license checkpoints around the outer edges of town, as that work is far easier than working the projects. Besides, who want's to get shot just trying to pad your overtime before retiring?

Meanwhile, the only thing that gets the local sheeple roused is the loss of their free stuff.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

@kito--

I've had the misfortune/fortune? to live in some metro areas(DC, Detriot, LA) so grim that even if you were to turn a blind eye you'd encounter an extreme in some way or other.

Truly I find it hard to believe that a major US metro area has no 'hood' as you so succinctly put it.

Look harder, unless you are in North Dakota in which case I understand and extend my condolences...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

I just noticed I wrote Det-Riot, I could edit or just leave it as it is...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:18 | Link to Comment Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Hey I live in North Dakota ...... well thanks for the condolences, people are very "special" up here, and the food is all high quality crap.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

My comment now makes me seem like an asshole. I really thought I was safe with North Dakota dammit should went with South.

Please elaborate on the food?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Sure is scary. Go visit a local shelter or soup kitchen. You'll be surprised at the type of people going there. Not what you'd expect. And imagine the people that are too proud for any assistance or avoid the statistics.

For example when a college does an alumni poll of who's working, the unemployed usually don't answer the surveys and theyre not included in their employment success rate. I would imagine its the same here, people down and out will avoid the surveys

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Jena
Jena's picture

An article in my local newspaper yesterday detailed the local homeless shelters that are becoming the default care centers for homeless people once they've been discharged from the area hospitals.  It led off with the report of one woman who may have been let go too early, because at the end of the article it said she was taken to the Emergency Department of hospital different than the one at which she'd received care.  

Apparently in LA County, there are a few post-hospital discharge homeless care centers staffed with medical and nursing personnel to deal with such patients until they are back on their literal feet.  In other California counties it's not probably going to happen, not with cutbacks to 911, fire and sheriff personnel already happening and more on the way. But it's a daunting idea, to be a shelter staffer trying to take care of these people who in another time would probably still be a hospital inpatient for a couple of days.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Encroaching Darkness
Encroaching Darkness's picture

One of my "sidelines" generates excess soda pop. I donate it to the local homeless shelter; the ethics of providing HFCS-laden soda to the homeless occasionally troubles me, but then it is calories not wasted, so....
Last week was time for a run; I pull up to the curb, behind a lady in a sedan folding quilts. I guess to myself, "Oh, she's gonna wash them for the shelter. Nice lady to do that." She has dozens, maybe a hundred, blanket after quilt after coverlet, moving them from the trunk to the backseat. Must need more room in the trunk for more quilts.
Middle-aged lady; maybe she could use some help. "Can I fold some for you?" A GLARE for an answer. OK lady, didn't mean anything, beat a hasty retreat.
Found some homeless to help move soda into the kitchen. Finished up, got in my station wagon to leave, the lady comes over.
"I wasn't mad at you, didn't want to leave you with that impression." Nice smile, a few teeth missing..
"I just needed to fold them neatly, you know how you guys [men] can be."
"I'm living in my car with my husband, we have another year and a half of car payments, then we can start working back up."
I told my wife and kids we were doing well, we're not living in a car with payments to make while trying to get something going that will get us back on our feet.
The homeless at the intersections are still there, whether I see them or not; can't say more or less over time, but definitely still there.
Got some hope and maybe some change? I see some people who could sure use it, here and there with their cardboard signs.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

Gene,

 

No joke. And people WANT to break into places, steal, beg, borrow, sell drugs etc. FOR FUN. (ok, doing drugs doesnt count). They do it TO LIVE. Gangs are the 21st centruy equivelant of a FAMILY.

 

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Gangs are the 21st centruy equivelant of a FAMILY'

Only because we stopped paying attention, individually and then collectively. Everybody is scared of everybody. This is the new norm.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." 

-Gandhi

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:37 | Link to Comment Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

"Don't talk to strangers."  Divide and conquer baby.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment MonsterBox
MonsterBox's picture

don't forget to check under the bridges and overpasses. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

But... but... I thought the prices of ipads were going down and that there was no inflation!?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

the HP Touchpad went down over 75% in price

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:28 | Link to Comment reader2010
reader2010's picture

Blame it on the public education. No Child Left Behind. Turn them all into debt slaves.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Blame it on monitary policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrL9MV6jSk

The Bernak gonna make it rain and trickle down is gonna drown the poor.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Obvious Paradox
Obvious Paradox's picture

Had to pwn you for that comment, as it is the missing parents that are to blame for the childrens upbringing or lack there off.  To blame Teachers is not very well thought out.  Don't like the Public Education?  Take responsibility and home school your kids.  It is every parents responsibility to be prepared for these decisions prior to pushing one out. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Can't wait to see how this will be ignored as they sell tickets for the new Titanic's maiden voyage into a whirlpool the size of Lake Ontario. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:31 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

NO SHIT.

 

Take the official numbers and multiply by factor of 3 and you are closer to the reality on the ground. 

 

Zombie Holocaust coming to city near you.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:31 | Link to Comment TrembleTheDevil
TrembleTheDevil's picture

You missed a bunch of other race-related stats:

Maybe it doesn’t mean much to you that the average black family has eight-cents of wealth for every dollar of wealth owned by whites, that the the ongoing recession has doubled the wealth gap between blacks and whites, or that the unemployment rate of blacks is edging up on twice as high as the white rate – easily surpassing it when you count incarcerated blacks. After all, a black child in American is nine-times more likely than a white child to have a parent who’s locked up.

 

But let’s look into the data and the implications a little bit more, because no economic disparity is starker than the one that correlates directly with race.

 

The very idea of what it means to be poor is color-coded, as while 1 in 3 blacks live in poverty, less than 1 in 10 whites do.  Despite making up roughly 13% of the population, African-Americans only control one-point-three percent of America’s net financial assets.  And yet the very definition of poverty itself now varies to the point of absurdity, since “poverty level whites control nearly as many mean net financial assets as the highest-earning blacks, $26,683 to $28,310. For those surviving at or below the poverty level, this indicates quite clearly that poverty means one thing for whites and another for blacks.”

 

And as the real estate market crashed blacks have suffered much more severely than whites. Even when income and credit are controlled for, black families now have their homes foreclosed on and are on their way to being kicked out into the streets over three-times as often as white families.

 

The impact of these facts have echoed across generations, as nearly three-quarters of all black children grow up in homes with no net financial assets. That’s nearly double the rate of white kids.  And nine in ten black kids grow up in homes without enough monetary reserves to last more than three months at the poverty line if their income were to drop, roughly four times the white ratio.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

This country has always oppressed and annihilated the poor and colored while ignoring their very existence whenver possible. But it seems we are running out of disadvantaged people groups to exploit; hence the machine is grinding up white sausage now.

 

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I think that is the one thing that the left discounts in the welfare programs that are put into place.  The welfare system is meant to keep the minorities in their place.  They call it a fixed income, because it fixes any motivation that minorities had. 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

70% of all black babies are now born out of wedlock.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

How dare you imply anything other than racism contributes to the disparity.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Does that leaves simpering, self hating apologists like you up next?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Ive always preferred white meat, anyway.

Those who say this will not end well, don't know. It will not end, at all.

Gotta another cold beer, enjoying myself. fuckit and fuckem, I say. Leave no cold beer behind.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

No shit Tremble, good stuff.

The bigger tragedy is that thsi is by design. A targetted sentencing policy, crowding, ghetto culture glorification, cultural smackdown, glass ceilings galore.... the glorification and escape-valvism of sport, role-models 9Snoop Dog anyone???)........

For the whites, Jon Stewart is the harbinger of truth on Comedy Central. Black people got Jerry Springer and........Oprah..... talk about a loaded dice, eh?

I've driven through some really tough Black Neighbourhoods. It's unfair the conditions they have to grow into. 

And of course there are the gangs. And the WAR on Drugs. 

Tough to rise against a tide of purposefully placed ankle-weights.

Teamwork, FTW!

ORI

Dissonant Lives

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

So, what's new, blame the White Man for all the ills of the minority population. There is always sombody else to blame for their f.. ups

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Exactly.  Anything to obscure or ignore the fact that after 4 generations of Great society or 5 generations of post-colonialism and racial quotas in hiring, finance and education most of the neighborhoods, cities and countries where these people exist are festering shitholes of disfunction, mysogeny and corruption.

Until they learn personal responsibility and are held accountable nothing will change.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You keep them in ghettos and send them to prison instead of college, but they just won't learn. What's your next step in teaching them responsibility, after taking away their food stamps? And speaking of responsibility, why doesn't society have any?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:11 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

It's not societies job to mind you, to make your choices and to guide your every decision.  Progressive, do gooders guilty of their own and their forebearers successes thought this stupid shit up about 150 years ago, then began putting it into action to assuage their pitiful little egos.  And now we have torchbearers, wrapped up in glorius metrosexual "feelings" of psuedo empathy and concern propelling that great dream forward, "for the children" et al.

Ultimately, it's based on the hubris of playing God.  You know what's better for those people than they do themselves, don't you? In reality you're just trying to elevate the "underpriviledged to a social and functional stations that are quite honestly beyond their design margins.  I read some old stories about Pride, and playing God.  They don't end very well.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:19 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

If you think living in a country where the poor are sick, starving, and have nothing to lose is an improvment, try living in Mexico or anywhere in Africa. Life is cheap in places like that, including your life. Not the kind of society you want to live in.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

First, those shit boxes can clean up their own goddamn problems.  And that solution does not need to include my tax dollars, effort, or concern.  I don't even really need to see you, Sally Struthers and that lard assed santa claus looking twit telling me about how little Hamsutja isn't getting enough to eat at his madrassa, where he learns to further hate his white benefactors.  You know, the ones that enabled his subsistence level culture to overpopulate their lands via free handouts of food.

But then, why are we talking about where I want to live?   I don't want to live there, and since we already have enough poor underprivildged and disadvantaged in this country to keep you safely occupied in your role as Good Deeds Tinkerbell, I don't see the connection between the turd world and what's needed to fix the USA.  Unless you want to hang it up as an undesireable and substandard model that our "afflicted" areas seem to be decaying into.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 20:46 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

First off, and to get this out of the way, you're a dick.

You've been GIVEN a LOT and you don't fucking see it.  Typical entitlement attitude, of which you seem oh-so capable in seeing in those un-washed masses.

When the overwhelming majority of the planet's inhabitants live on what can only be described as "meager incomes" it's hardly that they can just work harder and get out of their situation.  And the overwhelming majority of "rich" today didn't earn/make that wealth, they inherited it.

You give me a 150 year head start in a business sector and then after 150 years I'll tell you that we're "even."  Yeah, That should make it so!  And that's what occurred in the US, blacks we effectively kept from voting for 150 years.  But on the business front you had all the industrialists buy up the country, and they've been sitting on it since.  Yeah, one can always note some exceptions, but those who really do control things are doing so via OLD money; and, NEWS FLASH- THEY'RE ALL WHITE.

Dumb fucks like you just never get it, never get that unequal treatment results in everyone being subjected to this pile of shit until hell freezes over.  If you were to start a country you'd no doubt make the same fucking mistake; why is that? because you, like the monied folks who controlled the US from the start, are racist.  It's a shame, I have to not only listen to the shouts injustice from the colored community, but I have to hear absolute stupidity from idiots like you.  Yeah, I'm fucking mad that the fucking "founders" were racist and FAILED to treat everyone as equal.

When this all turns I hope that you ass is ground up.  Grow up or die.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:15 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Did you say; "You keep them in ghettos..."? Yes right; the white man round the minorities up and put them in jail for no reason at all, the white man kept the minorities from Universities although those universities are practically free to anybody, even to these with no education whatsoever, since the quota government gives away loans as if there was no tomorrow and since in practice there is no education requirements to enter most of the universities... Yes, Let's blame the bad white man for all ......

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Plays well to the angry white man crowd, but... how about providing some statistics?

Should be a lesson to all that fucking up at the foundation level will always result in things being fucked up in the future.  Next time a bunch of white men get together and create a society in which all are equal except that some are more equal than others, well, along with a head-start you also inherit this "colored problem."

P.S. Seems kind of odd that all the haters of the Statist educational system should be whining as though THEY are not able to attend.  Hmm... (BTW - I detest ALL governments, so don't even bother to label me as some bleeding heart, or whatever cheap label that you all like to use to avoid real debates [because you're too busy spouting off elitist crap - yes, I said elitist, and that's because you are statistically near the very top of the human wealth pyramid].)

P.S.2 Meanwhile in reality, the US, which is nearly ALL controlled by white men, continues to kill colored people all over the globe. (the "humanitarian aid" that follows in to "convert" the poor bombed masses only aids the plan that is eventual resource extraction [most of the humanitarians are just too stupid to see that they are pawns])

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

My grandfather was a gang leader. He was well respected and the citizens were safe.  Nothing happened in his neighborhood that he didn't know about and authorize.  If the police had business in the neighborhood they would go to him for permission first (police are to keep the peace, not protect the citizenry).  Nobody was hassled or starved.

My grandfather would have to ask permission to date my grandmother as she lived in Jimmy Hoffa's territory and he did with all respects.  They all went to church, college and become productive non criminal leaders in the community (maybe not Hoffa).

Gangs were different back then, there was a sense of duty and pride for your neighborhood.

 

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:32 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Well, the FEDs were so proud to destroy the Cosa Nostra yet they were to stupid to realize that others are going to come in and they are not going to be so nice... Now, we crave for the Italian, Irish and Jewish Mob but its too late.  Good old days....

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Are you saying it is a racial issue and not a social issue.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

is there difference?

 

  beware binary either/or thinking............

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Now look at the stats for Asians in the US....

Lowest unemployment of any group.....hmmm.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

You need to stop this recial sh..t. It does not help anybody to keep dividing us by race..

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Discussing racial disparities may help illuminate problems unseen by people behind a bias of existence without race and/or wealth being a limiting factor in their life.  The discussion of the divide does not create the divide.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:33 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture


No, it will not for the unemployment issues should not and must not be attributed to race. Go to any IT department in the USA and take a look at the racial make up of the software developers there. You will find that Indian developers are most often then not in majority.. You will also see that the minority population is almost not existent... which tell me that the business does not give a shit about race as long as one can to the job. So blaming the unemployment on racial prejudice is a bull.... and makes it impossible to communicate. Do you honestly think that white man has a licence on racial prejudice? Just look at the number of black population who voted for Obama and you will see the true prejudice...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"Do you honestly think that white man has a licence [sic] on racial prejudice? Just look at the number of black population who voted for Obama and you will see the true prejudice..."

So, the "true prejudice" is only exhibited by blacks? (discounting the fact that Obama IS NOT a BLACK - I blame this more on Edward Bernays than anything else- programing is programming, skin color isn't impervious [nor provide any special protection])

The founders of the US weren't exhibiting racism when they limited an entire group of people based on skin color from voting?  Oh, and then women...

For all you clowns out there let this be a lesson, fuck up something foundational and you (and most likely your offspring) will live with it till the end of time... as you should.  Reparations could have rectified, but...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:26 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Race, or maybe it's just culture.   Either way, THEY are not united with you at all.   Because they certainly discriminate against cultures as well.

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:20 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

That's just terrible.  Let's throw a shit ton of money at the problem, have some Reading Is Fun drives and hold a telethon because that will narrow the gap.

Oh wait, we've been doing that for damn near 40 years and 4 generations now, haven't we?  Obviously, not enough has been given by those "lucky sperm" who just walked into a life of riches and ease.

Yeah, it certainly doesn't have anything to do with poor personal choices or lack of accountability and resposibility, does it?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Exactly, Talking Heads actually believe that the QEs started with the QE1... It has been going on for decades..

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Prometheus the ...
Prometheus the Jester's picture

 

The useless eater express, bound for Jesus, All Aboard! When will Americans wake up from the American dream? I don't know. Maybe they will wake up when the last American loses his job. Perhaps they will wake up when the last gun is confiscated. Maybe they will wake up when they are being herded into the cattle cars by the imperial troops to go to the FEMA camps, where they have been assured that they will receive a hot meal and a nice shower. Never mind those incinerators, they are just burning the trash. Just for our records, do you have any gold teeth? Move along, nothing to see...here...  
http://firemagick.blogspot.com/
Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Boring, stuffy white guys who use the term "useless eaters" are usually the first to be ripped limb from limb by multi-cultural zombie hordes. Just sayin.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Junked you for gratuitious nazi reference.

The american dream is done. It was always about leveraging unfair advantage. Steal the land, enslave the workers, import illegal serfs, be the world's factory after the rest of the world was blown up.

Without that advantage it's all over. No FEMA camp necessary, just grinding poverty ahead.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:57 | Link to Comment Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

YEH YEH it's those evil "White Men"

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Could have been polka-dotted men if they had gotten power, but it wasn't. No group is very nice to others. However, if you want to whitewash the racial history of USA that's your problem.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Let's add some color into the mix then......

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Well, consider who is wielding all the power.  I'm not seeing the club having a lot of color...  So, yes, it's IS Evil White Men.  If you're offended it by it then too damn bad.  That said, anyone who is familiar with what I write knows that I'm anti-centralized power, which basically means I believe all concentrations of power are bad, whether it comes from people with white skin, brown skin, yellow skin or green skin.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>Junked you for gratuitious nazi reference.

Why?

The Americans have had their internment camps, eugenics programs, slavery, illegal wars, and employment of fission weapons on innocent people. Then there are the drug wars, which began as a war on minorities. There are acts like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potawatomi_Trail_of_Death

Is the American state inherently different from the Nazi state? Is it because they've killed fewer millions?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

I agree with you, but we don't need FEMA camps. Control is more sophisticated than that.

 Plus I don't think things are going to be that organized going forward, just a racheting down of living standards, along with scapegoating and general misery.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Yeah, I liked the Vandals in high school too

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Don't forget minorities since you are at it...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 20:26 | Link to Comment Der Kommissar
Der Kommissar's picture

You do not know what Nazi camp is, you moron.  My uncle was in one of them and it was hell on earth and you would not last there a day.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

So, we cannot TALK about it because we have not been in one?

That logic would be like telling those who were warning others about the camps when they themselves had not been there.

"you would not last there a day"

I don't believe that it was the intention of the Nazis to keep you there long...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Prometheus the ...
Prometheus the Jester's picture

"No FEMA camp necessary, just grinding poverty ahead."

It's nice that someone is an optimist!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment DirtMerchant
DirtMerchant's picture

Had to go to the airport in Detroit yesterday, the main highways were flooded so I had to take back streets for about 4 miles just west of downtown Detroit, I could not believe how bad it was, it looked like a total 3rd world war zone, boarded up houses and buildings, some burned out, others just falling in on themselves, some homeless brothers trying to break into a vacant building by kicking in the doors, hookers, pimps, druggies, homeless guys pushing carts, people blowing stop signs and stoplights like they weren't even there. Abandoned stripped cars just sitting on the side of the street.I know Detroit is the armpit of the midwest, I live just 20 miles north of it, but I have not been immersed in it like I was yesterday, just 4 miles and I saw all of that.

I thought to myself, this is what poverty really looks like, friggin scary place.....

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

At least the lady strippers at the clubs are getting more attractive.  So we have that going for us.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:20 | Link to Comment DirtMerchant
DirtMerchant's picture

I haven't been in a strip club in a few years, seems like they are getting more violent by the day, keep seeing shootings occurring at even some of the better ones....

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Was in upstate NY not too longago. Schenectedy, Troy, Albany and a few other places.  These cities were all in decline back when I was in college - in the 70's but had been making progress.  No more.  Major backsliding.  OPnce gentrified neighborhoods falling apart again.  Astounded at the number of boarded up houses in Schenectedy.  Made a comment to that effect some time later to someone who had been born there and his comment was - yeah.... but you won't find much racism there - EVERYBODY's poor (he's black).  

All these places were once centers of commerce and manufacturing.  Schenectedy was home to GE and made almost all teh steam locomotives in the western hemisphere.  Troy was taking down the last of the steel mills when I started college in the 70's.  A once great industrial powerhouse died at the turn of the centuy but the college there - Rensselaer- is booming, taking over old slum like housing at its edges to expand the campus.  The suburbs around ASlbany were starting to look a bit shabby as well - and lots of empty srtorefronts in Saratoga - even at height of the summer season (lots of FOR SALE signs there - and everywhere.   Up by Lake George and the Adirondacks a number of restaurants didn't open this summer - lots of summer places up for sale there as well.

Even 30 years ago it came down to JOBS - there weren't any good ones after most of the manufacturing plants shut down.  NY State was a big employer in the region but they're cutting back.  Colleges are still good places to work - if you can get a job there.  Not many options then - and it's gotten a lot worse.

The old industrial cities started dying first.  Now the service jobs are disappearing too.  You can't have an ecopnomy based on a few good jobs at the top and crap jobs for everyone else - if they can find a job.  The 'service industry' meme and the 'thinking jobs' meme are a crock.  Wealth is created by adding value - you dig up ore from the ground, cut down trees, grow stuff - that's the third world model.  Next step up you smelt ore into metal, turn wood into lumber and sell excess agricultural production.  The step above that you turn metal into THINGS - cars, appliances, computers, wood into furniture, grain into food products you sell.    The jobsto do thewse things take increasing amounts of skill - but are within the capability of most people.  These jobs USED to be the core of the US middle and working classes.  No more.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:21 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I went to RPI, mid nineties, can completely "see" what you are saying. Schencdaty was scary AND sad. Back then.

And Troy had the Troy Savings bank Music Hall, thank god.

hmmmmm.....

ORI

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:33 | Link to Comment porrannor
porrannor's picture

Places, such as Troy, commenced their decent the moment jobs had begun moving first south and then to Mexico. These places were the canaries in the mine and the look into the future of this country. This is exactly what this country is becoming, a Troy of USA. They laughed at Ross Perot over 20 years ago when he said: "We would hear sacking sound of jobs going to Mexico ....." and they elected whoever instead, and they elected whoever again and again. And now we have Obama and we still hear the sacking sound of jobs being sent to China. Maybe, just maybe Ron Paul is not such a bad choice? what do we have to loose?...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

I went to a job interview yesterday that was in the 96-Wyoming area.  Sheesh.  I'm a big guy and I was wondering if I should be there.  It was also the first potential employer that had razor wire all the way around their property.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:31 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

My wife is from Metro Manilla, you should go there if you really want to see "poverty." But, I have never felt NOT safe there.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:44 | Link to Comment wharfdaddy
wharfdaddy's picture

Hey I live in Thailand, People are stealing each other kids to make them beg on the street...(but they CAN go see a Doctor for a dollar) and most prescribed (in America) drugs are over the counter here.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Sounds like a fast track to drug resistant diseases. Thanks a lot.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment taint
taint's picture

turn the percentage of people into numbers and that will open you eyes....15 percent without enough to eat - 50 million people give or take.  

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

My thesis is that the welfare state is an insurance hedge the wealthy (and the government itself) need to mitigate the chances of revolution.  As more people become destitute, the hedge becomes more expensive to maintain.  

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Ding ding ding! Give that man a cigar! Welfare = Great Unwashed Riot Insurance

 

The Great Society was launched right around when the natives were getting restless.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:14 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

Yes-sir-ee....without a doubt...and Marx was the one who really conected the dots....way back then!

 

"keep on rockin in the 'free' world..."

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

Where did Marx state something similar (I'm not being confrontational, just curious), I am not well read on him.  

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Sorry, but there will be no further discussion.  We ALL Know that Marx was wrong on EVERYTHING, that's the unspoken truth!

People will pick whatever bits (of tripe) to appease their gullets.  Most never do realize their own poor logic, built-in prejudices.

But... yeah, the wealthy have ALWAYS had a PLAN to stay on top, and it's always been the same: stand on the bodies of the un-washed.  And, yes, groupings DO get used to keep people subservient: I do not, however, subscribe to the notion that ALL people engaged in something are intending bad consequences, it's just that those in power take and manipulate any such efforts such that the intentions are nearly indistinguishable from what ends up being executed; and, again, it's POWER that dictates HOW things are executed.  Unfortunately, people take the original label and confuse it with the outcome, thereby tossing out the baby with the bath water.

Wasn't it Malcolm X who warned that people be cautious lest they end up hating the oppressed and loving the oppressors?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Be real.  Drugs and prisons keep the poor under control.  US drug policy has always had higher penalties for rthe drugs used buy the poor - even when those drugs wer provided wirth the complicity of those who made them illegal.  Illegal SOMA for the poor - and stiff prison penalties handed out to the low level providers.   

You wouldn't have so much drug abuse if there was HOPE and a FUTURE for the poor.  You wouldn't have so many people dealing if they could get real jobs.

But the Heroin and crack of the inner city minorities has expanded with the meth of white rural America - good old moonshine is for the old folks.....  Life sucks - get stoned.

The US has more people in prison as a percentage of population than any totalitarian state.  You lock up the poor for drugs - or for minor crimes (three strikes) - things that white middle class kids get probation for after Mom and Dad get a good lawyer.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Sorry, but the (white) jury has spoken, and there shall be NO excuses for non-whites, none!

Yeah, it was Gary Webb's Dark Alliance series that pretty much documented this.

And then there's Catherine Austin Fitts' findings of HUD activity that shows how communities are run down in order to be bought out at low prices.

Again, come on people, admit it, yes, it IS white people that are primarily responsible for the mess.  BUT, it's NOT because they are white, it's because of their excess power (anyone, no matter their color, given lots of power would also be fucked up [just look at Condolezza Rice- yes, Black AND a Woman!]).

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Absolutely

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

There never was welfare for the poor in America. Go to the ghetto; do things look well? It was just a lie to make the middle class feel better about themselves and a useful tool to keep you voting for puppets of oligarchs. Mission accomplished.

Even Europe, which actually had welfare, can't afford it any more. Done.

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Welfare is bad for society. Scared people are not idle. They take the first job that comes along and are highly productive.

End all transfer payments for the good of society. Short term will be tough, but longterm our population will be more responsible and have better self discipline.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:53 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

There is no job 'coming along'. What do you think the unemployment rate is for minorities? If you lived in a bad neighborhood in a house you didn't own, with no job, car, prospects, and someone took away your food stamps, what would you do? Would you try to take something from someone else?

A hungry mob is a angry mob.

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:00 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Yeah in the short term the entitlement mentality would cause certain people to riot. Your thinking is telling. What if we took away " their" food stamps, as if they have an ownership interest in charity

No job? Do like people used to do. Rake leaves, mow lawns, or sell shit on the streets.

The entitlement to OPM has been very corrosive to moral values and has created unnecessary dependency.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Lecturing about morality? Look at the history of how you have treated people, how you still treat people. Those Mexican serfs have equal rights? Please. You bring them here for cheap labor and expect them to be grateful and not take what they can get?

If you want to live in a country where the poor are starving and sick (no subsidized health care) you better have a walled compound, be up on your vaccinations, and wear a bullet proof vest. What a charming place to live, like any central american hellhole.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

> Look at the history of how you have treated people, how you still treat people

Whom are you addressing?

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:07 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Why, he's addressing his own forefathers, that so arrogantly created this land of bounty and 24 hour electronic entertainment, just for him to disparage it.

apologies for the not quite paraphrasing from "SLC PUNK",  watched that last night.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:25 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

Subsidized housing has lawns to rake and mow?

Listen, there is no easy solution to this.  On one hand the welfare system is certainly not creating the proper incentives to get these people to be productive, high-functioning members of society.  It is an enourmous waste of monetary resources and human resources, as they are getting paid to merely exist.  

On the other hand, if the system were completely dismantled, there would be rioting (something the Republicans seem to not understand).  The fact of the matter is, there are no fcking jobs that these people can do with their current skill sets that they could get paid adequately for.  They would be making marginally more money working than not working, this is a question of incentives here and the current trade-off doesn't make sense.  The entire incentive structure needs to be re-evaluated.  

The best solution may be making these people work for their checks by performing jobs within their communities.  This could be one way to repair infrastrucutre and provide other services at a local level, but of course, it would require a massive re-skilling.  We NEED a massive re-skilling though, we are going through structural unemployment right now for a variety of reasons (technological improvements, multinationals moving less skilled jobs abroad because of labor costs, etc).  The combined effect of the zeitgeist is essentially removing large swaths of jobs from our domestic economy, and these people will not be able to re-enter it with their current skill-sets.  

 

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>Listen, there is no easy solution to this.  On one hand the welfare system is certainly not creating the proper incentives

The term "welfare system" is a euphemism for systematic robbery. Acts of theft are wrong. Thus, the "welfare system" should be abolished.

Your utilitarian analysis on "proper incentives" is subjective and superfluous.

>get these people to be productive, high-functioning members of society

That's just your opinion. What criteria do you use when deciding whether other people should be more productive or should have more leisure? 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:28 | Link to Comment TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

//The term "welfare system" is a euphemism for systematic robbery. Acts of theft are wrong. Thus, the "welfare system" should be abolished.//

The costs of abolishing the welfare system are large scale riots in urban centers.  Are you ready to deal with the short to intermediate-term aftermath of implementing your libertarian utopia?  Put on your realistic thinking cap for a second here.  Besides that, the political feasibility of dismantling it is effectively 0.  

I also do see the welfare system as systemic robbery, by the way, but am thinking about consequences.  Your little logical chain of "dismantle x because x is theft and theft is wrong" does not exist in a vacuum as much as I do agree with it.  The consequences of dismantling this theft will be like nothing we have seen, so if you really want this to be undertaken, you must understand the consequences of doing so and consequently have a system in place to deal with them.

Your brain powers (I've read your stuff, you are intelligent) could be put to better use in coming up with creative solutions to implementing your copy and pasting from mises.org ideas - not that I would want to use coercsion in re-focusing your attention though =)

//That's just your opinion. What criteria do you use when deciding whether other people should be more productive or should have more leisure? //

Sorry chap, I don't want my work to subsidize somebody elses "leisure time."  I have a hard time understanding, based on what you said just prior, why you are OK with this.  I don't give a shit what other people do unless it infringes upon my rights, which I do have a right to the compensation of my labor, so I do see it as an infringment for these people to choose more subsidized "leisure time."

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 17:49 | Link to Comment Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>Put on your realistic thinking cap for a second here.

The ends do not justify the means.

>The costs of abolishing the welfare system are large scale riots in urban centers.

So your argument is, in order to prevent crime, we must continue a system of organized crime that victimizes people every day.

>Your brain powers (I've read your stuff, you are intelligent) could be put to better use in coming up with creative solutions

I think "creative solutions" got us exactly where we are now. If having a welfare system is a good alternative to having riots, as you maintain; then why can't errecting a welfare system be a good alternative to a politician having low poll results and losing an election. Who's to decide whose utilitarian calculation is right and whose is wrong. Perhaps a desperate man should be allowed to rape a woman if his pleasure outweighs the suffering of the victim.

>I don't give a shit what other people do unless it infringes upon my rights
>The best solution may be making these people work for their checks by performing jobs within their communities. This could be one way to repair infrastrucutre and provide other services at a local level, but of course, it would require a massive re-skilling.

So which is it? Are you libertarian, or are you moonlighting as the Welfare Check / Infrastructure / Re-Education Czar?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Agreed.  Even while the unemployment rate remains high, there is still a shortage of workers in a number of sectors.  Off the top of my head, nursing, teachers, engineers and machinists are in short supply. 

Because of the way higher education was pushed as a cure all, there were a lot of people who bought education to be management and clerical types- and that was to be expected, considering that those positions brought greater financial reward, and did not require the same kind of detail-oriented technical skill.  Why learn advanced anatomy, sociology, or mathematics, when you could make 5 times as much to tell others what to do in broad strokes, and make them figure out the details?

Yes, I know there is a lot involved in effective management- but no more so than any other skilled profession.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:56 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

OK, and we let off banksters off the hook as well?

You see, those above you need to be punished, and those below you need to be punished.  Yeah, it's NOT YOU!

Listen, when the music has stopped and you've already got a chair it's easy to claim that ceasing the music is good.

You're in a state of denial if you don't think that there still wouldn't be massive turmoil.  Only a complete reset would see any realistic possibility of providing balance, even as scary messy as That would be!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

No.  It's not an insurance hedge...  It's a direct payment not to go crazy and break shit...  Granted, it is still a shield, but it is no insurance policy...  that's what the MIC and all of its extensions are for.  Obviously, the social safety net does not exist out of the kindness of our (their) hearts.  Strangely enough, the payoff is pretty damn cheap.

However, we're (they're) not too far from having to file a claim.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

You're dead-on on this one!

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Agree! Riot Insurance it is. Simply imagine a day when the welfare checks do not arrive, the SNAP cards don't work at the grocery store and the doctors will not accept medicaid patients. Who among us dares say the major inner cities and some rural poor areas do not explode in a matter of hours???

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

"Simply imagine a day when....the SNAP cards don't work at the grocery store..."

 

This thought has crossed my mind, but your post has made me re-visit the issue, especially since I have a good friend who works in loss prevention (shoplifting patrol) for a Wal-Mart store.

We already know from the CEO of Wal-Mart that the number of individuals on SNAP assisstance who begin shopping at 11pm the night before "reload" happening at midnight is growing.  Then they all line up to check out at the same time.

I'm sure this goes for Kroger and all of the other large supermarket chains.

If you're religious, you should keep the innocents in your prayers, because it will be ugly fast, and nationwide on the night when that reload doesn't occur.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"If you're religious, you should keep the innocents in your prayers, because it will be ugly fast, and nationwide on the night when that reload doesn't occur."

Well, I'm not "religious," but I do, in a way, "pray."  But, better yet (since it's been proven that praying really doesn't change a given outcome), I'm looking to generate as much food as I can.  If people can make it to where I live and can work (as much/hard as I) to produce food then I have no problem being there for them.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

5 months still looking for work. I guess no demand = no work. Gearing up for possible EBT Zombie invasion in 3...2...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

try 5 years! no shit.

 

And then you go to places where the 85% are employed and they are just worthless....as teats on a boar.....a-fucking-mazing....

 

glad I have this mass on my brain cause im sick of this shit....

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:36 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Tits on a boar are useful man.  Any gilt offspring that the boar with more teats has will inherit extras from him, thereby providing for bigger litters of her own.

Try using "chickenwire rubber".  Now those are useless.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

Going on 6 months here.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

Do you believe Bernanke thinks about these people for one second? Dream on. He'll print and tell the main stream media to report 0% inflation.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Some really excellent posts above on the creeping poverty and the small signs one can look for to detect the change as we rachet downward.

My yardstick in my small town is the occupancy level one sees in the old houses and old houses converted into apartments in town. Also the deterioration of housing in the older neighborhoods.

Put simply, people are moving into the old houses and apartments that were really teardowns waiting for the wrecking crew in 2006. Today they are all occupied plus the cheap rotten old apartments in these houses where you wouldn't want your dog to stay are now also full with young families.

This is a white working class small town with rust belt characteristics. We came back a lot in the 2000-6 time frame, but are now sinking fast. Many homes for sale and not moving. 5 on my block alone, which has only 12 total! Depression is here for the btoom half and is slowing creeping up the income ladder.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Pretty soon they will be plowing up the front yards to plant gardens.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:29 | Link to Comment bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Pretty soon they'll be planting zerohedge commenters in the garden.

King Claudius: Now, Hamlet, where's Polonius?
Hamlet: At supper.
King Claudius: At supper! Where?
Hamlet: Not where he eats, but where he is eaten: a certain
convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your
worm is your only emperor for diet: we fat all
creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for
maggots: your fat king and your lean beggar is but
variable service, two dishes, but to one table:
that's the end.

You think the TPTB ever read Hamlet?

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:57 | Link to Comment shazbotz
shazbotz's picture

The "official" figures for all the above are "padded" just like the unemployment figures

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Killtruck
Killtruck's picture

Going long pimp canes, toilet paper and boomsticks.

Short toothpaste.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:08 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g&list=

RSA Animate - The Empathic Civilisation

Uploaded by on May 6, 2010

Bestselling author, political adviser and social and ethical prophet Jeremy Rifkin investigates the evolution of empathy and the profound ways that it has shaped our development and our society.

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

My thoughts on the same:

The death of Empathy

ORI

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 16:57 | Link to Comment andybev01
andybev01's picture

"I can say with a great degree of certainty that the lunatic asylums of the world are filled with empaths."

 

I really enjoy your writing.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 14:09 | Link to Comment mr1963
mr1963's picture

"adjusted for inflation is back to 1968 levels. "

Don't know why, but I sure would like to see the inflation adjusted numbers for government workers and see how it compares to 1968. Something tells me it's not 1968 levels...

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