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Details Of Boehner's Plan Emerge

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Slowly details of the shape of Boehner's two-step plan are emerging:

  • BOEHNER'S FIRST STEP WOULD BOOST DEBT LIMIT INTO FEBRUARY
  • BOEHNER PLAN SAID TO SEEK DEBT BOOSTS OF $1 TLN AND $1.6 TLN
  • BOEHNER'S PLAN WOULD HAVE COMMITTEE IDENTIFY SPENDING CUTS
  • BOEHNER'S PLAN REQUIRES HOUSE AND SENATE TO VOTE ON BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT BETWEEN OCTOBER AND THE END OF 2011

It is unclear if this approach is a non-starter considering that every democrat has made it clear in the past 24 hours that a partial debt increase of $1 trillion would not even be discussed as it would reach just through February or March at the current cash burn rate.

More as we get it

 

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Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:30 | 1490845 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

ES doesn't seem to be paying attn

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:44 | 1490900 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

Headline on Drudge:

 

REID CAVES ON DEBT DEAL

 

 

AP story:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_SHOWDOWN?SITE=AP&SECTION=...

 

Sidebar:

REID PLAN: $2.7 TRILLION IN CUTS; NO NEW TAXES...

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/173159-reid-pelosi-to-meet-obama-gop-so...

 

 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:39 | 1491125 redpill
redpill's picture

"...urgently pieced together competing plans Monday to prevent a first-ever government default next week."

AP has been saying this "first-ever" shit for days now, it's complete BS.  The US Government has defaulted numerous times.  Continental dollars anyone?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:49 | 1491156 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Even the modern day Federal Reserve Note has defaulted three times since it came into existence -

"

The U.S. government defaulted at least three times on its obligations during the 20th century.

-- In 1934, the government banned ownership of gold and eliminated the right to exchange gold certificates for gold coins. It then immediately revalued gold from $20.67 per troy ounce to $35, thus devaluing the dollar holdings of all Americans by 40 percent.

-- From 1934 to 1968, the federal government continued to issue and redeem silver certificates, notes that circulated as legal tender that could be redeemed for silver coins or silver bars. In 1968, Congress unilaterally reneged on this obligation, too.

-- From 1934 to 1971, foreign governments were permitted by the U.S. government to exchange their dollars for gold through the gold window. In 1971, President Richard Nixon severed this final link between the dollar and gold by closing the gold window, thus in effect defaulting once again on a debt obligation of the U.S. government. " - Dr. Congressman Ron Paul

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:36 | 1491116 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Of course, there's a template for reducing the deficit already out there in the form of a 700 page report from the President's Bilateral Commission.  But neither party really wants to refer back to what might really work.  Why?  It's too painful.

Now we are to believe we need a Committee to make these tough decisions?  Plan Reid and Plan Boehner both pretty much suck.  A compromise between the two plans will likely result into something close to "double suck".

Sounds to me like BOTH parties want to pull the band-aid off slowly... but defer the "really tough" things long enough to make it through their 2012 re-election campaigns.

Now... why are we going to re-elect these losers again?

 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:50 | 1491162 whaletail
whaletail's picture

I don't think the pain in the bilateral commission report is the reason neither side wants to adopt its recommendations. That might be the Dem's position, but the Republicans want only a short term solution [sic] so the issue comes up again before November, 2012.  That's right: they want to have this debate all over again next year.  If they succeed, they'll have 6+ months to raise more support for their cuts in spending forcing the issue as the #1 issue in the elections. 

Now, if the short term solution is not passed by whatever the deadline is and the U.S. defaults, it will be because either the Dem-controlled senate didn't pass it OR the President vetoed the plan.  If it is the latter, that means the Dems in the senate ignored the President's bottom line that there would be no debt deal unless it went through the 2012 election.  If the President vetoes any short term solution, then the Republicans can argue the President defaulted the country because of his political ambition and desire for a 2nd term.

The President is in a Catch-22. He's been trumped. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:43 | 1491386 Skeebo
Skeebo's picture

Obama did it to himself too.  All the MAD talk doesn't do you any good if you leave a pretty obivious path for your opposition to paint you into a corner.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 16:35 | 1491957 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

Agreed..the Pres should never said he would veto, He should have played up the Reps refusal to extend and when it fails and no checks go out.. Please call the Teaparty for your check. I find it odd that the rich complain about govt payouts when the money never stays in the pockets of the poor, it always migrates to the rich. The poor have no stocks in medical companies or the food chain or the apartment rentals. So the treat to block Govt payouts in the end harms the rich Note to Obama " Know the value of what you are negotiating to the OTHER GUY FIRST so your bullshit detector will go off when he says " You are the only loser "" Think Air craft controllers strike and the European union stand on " We refuse to land " and Ronnis responce " Miss one flight and I wll ban your Airline from US skies " Compromise does not win in Poker kids.............

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 18:38 | 1492301 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  Obama voter you have been outed. What a tard.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:30 | 1490846 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1490850 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

BOEHNER'S PLAN WOULD HAVE COMMITTEE IDENTIFY SPENDING CUTS

Cuts by committee. 

Wasn't this how the jackass was made, when a committee tried to make a horse? 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490874 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Rule by committee is good for you!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:43 | 1490923 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

 

Animal Farm by George Orwell (1945)


Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:02 | 1491010 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Too funny TIS, I just made the same comment on the Italy bond auction thread.

Everythign Orwellian is apropos at thsi time, eh?

ORI

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:05 | 1491027 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I used to think Orwell was sooo 1984, and he is/was, but he's even more 2011.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:20 | 1491076 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Even if you've read it before, I recommend Huxley's "Brave New World".  "1984" really reminds me of the Soviet Union, just before the collapse, but "Brave New World" is eerily resonant with today in the West....

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:23 | 1491083 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And it is free. As in no cost free. Free as a bird. Free at last, I'm free at last.

http://www.idph.net/conteudos/ebooks/BraveNewWorld.pdf

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:37 | 1491120 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I'm going to free fall into some of that Brave New World resonance.

Thanks for the tip & link.

I feel more like a free man with each passing day.

"He is the freeman whom the truth makes free,

And all are slaves beside."

--William Cowper   

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:58 | 1491182 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Nice quote.

I never could figure out Huxley and Orwell.  Trying to warn the peeps?  Working for the man?  A bit of both?

All I know is "Brave New World" is so damn depressing.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 17:53 | 1492212 trav7777
trav7777's picture

depressing?  Why?  They engineered a society where everyone was happy except that obsolete savage with his outmoded morals and silly idealism.

EVERYONE ELSE was happy.  How is that depressing, because you are a misanthrope?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:40 | 1491129 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Thanks for the link CD. I saved a copy here at work to read on lunch break.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 17:54 | 1492213 trav7777
trav7777's picture

there's a copy on the web at huxley.net

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1490855 drink or die
drink or die's picture

The solution is always to form a committee to solve a problem.  Then when the committee's findings are rejected, they use that as the talking points for their re-election campaign.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:41 | 1491134 redpill
redpill's picture

The more the planners fail, the more the planners plan.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:50 | 1491164 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The committee approach is not bad here.

The math compels them to take money from entitlements.

Politics will compel them to take some painful tens of billions for DoD.

That might just pass.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1490865 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

This tells you all you need to know about the Presidents/Democrats willingness to cut spending, they see 1Tn as 'partial' who said it was 'partial' just cut the spending and make it 'full'

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1490869 dbach
dbach's picture

here's a money saving tip Boehner, use the last deficit reduction committee's results (which were great) rather than pay a new committee to write yet another report that won't be read...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:57 | 1490992 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

rather than pay a new committee to write yet another ..

-  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -  - -

 

*NEWSFLASH*

 

Said committee already collecting salary; committee to be composed of sitting congressmen (and women) ...

 

 

 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:09 | 1491041 fuu
fuu's picture

Job growth...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490870 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I think that they will/may/won't take this deal and that the U.S. will/definitely will/absolutely will be just as bankrupt.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490875 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

These politicians are such jackasses.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490876 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Reid has caved.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:03 | 1491016 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

That sounds dire. 

ORI

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490878 mt paul
mt paul's picture

blah blah blah...

 

words with no meaning 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1490879 JJSF
JJSF's picture

Green close regardless of news. No need to even discuss anything these days.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1490890 Bob
Bob's picture

Bullshit fatigue is taking its toll.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1490898 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

yup - looks like the formerly long-anticipated flash-crash will be just one more blip on the charts.... brilliant

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1490910 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No way out of this mess at all is 'highly bullish'.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1490884 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

It's all about the elections.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1490902 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

There will be no elections, as a top CIA agent just said this is it, Obama is the last 'president'. Wake up out of the 'its all about politics' crap, we're 3rd worlded.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:42 | 1490917 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Even if so we won't find out till in 5 years

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1490938 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No, he wasnt refering to the end of Obamas 8 years LOL he was saying there wont be one next year.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:18 | 1491069 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I disagree.

President-for-life is still a president. Depends on what your definition of president is.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 21:45 | 1492878 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"What do you need, Neo?"

"Guns.  Lots of guns." -- Neo, "The Matrix"

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:49 | 1490956 fuu
fuu's picture

Link?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:01 | 1491006 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Seems I didnt save a link, I saw it as a youtube interview video.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:15 | 1491043 fuu
fuu's picture

You are unable to view your browsing history or recently closed items to get back to it?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:45 | 1491144 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Bingo SD1, but that possibility is too hard for most folks, even most folks here, to even consider.

This boat will tip over in October, too many signs pointing there.

No-vember!

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/doldrums-and-cliff-edges/

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:56 | 1491179 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Please stop pimping your blog in almost every comment, it is becoming quite annoying and you are becoming more and more troll like.  So just stop.

I know what you are doing and I am surprized that th Tyler's are allowing it.

Just stop, this is not your forum for SEO.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1490929 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

Is it really?

It looks to me that if the candidate I voted for does not get elected, I don't have to participate anymore.

Furthermore, if I didn't personally vote for the person or the issue, I can piss on the USA its institutions, constitution, leaders etc. I can be as shitty as I want to be to anyone and everyone.

I love my America, whereas your America is worthless. Welcome to the revolution.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:47 | 1491152 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Now you're catching on. Remember, 93% of Americans rate themselves as above average drivers and have the ability to vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1490941 mt paul
mt paul's picture

elections

or maybe 

erections ...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:32 | 1491326 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

erections

Those are what Chinese voters participate in.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1490885 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

It's all about the elections.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1490974 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

No election needed, Obama gets his base by not taking away their free stuff, opposition will split between Romney (a mormon) and a Ron Paul like charector. The Ron Paul like charector (doesnt necesarily have to be Ron Paul) will get little MSM coverage but will pull enough votes from Romney to get Obama reelected. Congress, by design, can get absolutely nothing done so the potus gains more power.

Just my guess, but TBTF will buy both candidates so it doesnt really matter anyways.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:20 | 1491077 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

You know they are already looking for the "third party" maverick to run and throw the election to Barry I.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1490887 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

All shades of opinion are entitled to a hearing...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1490915 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Not when it is leftist, Marxist crap.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1490946 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

That was a Committee joke....

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:07 | 1491029 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Just like the prior commentator.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:53 | 1491170 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Every ass deserves to be sniffed??

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:38 | 1490892 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Central planners may plan all they wish, but the fact remains: we are broke (by design of course).  The looting is almost complete.  What happens afterwards will be ugly.  Plan accordingly.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:38 | 1490893 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I see all this talk of partial cuts as a TOTAL joke, no ones serious about anything theyre just trying to figure out how to save their phoney baloney jobs.

But more importantly its pretty obvious there will be no Wall St euphoria coming from any of this talk of a mere $1 trillion, 25% of that is already removed to restock the govt pensions theyve been dipping into since QE end. Bunch of crap is all this is, but big market move ups coming? I wouldnt bet on it.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1490933 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Perhaps when $1 trillion only lasts 6 months the sheeple will wake up to the doo-doo they/we are in. But probably not.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:53 | 1491169 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The vast majority of the population cares nothing about math as it relates to our Federal Government's ability to keep swipping their credit card on our behalf.  I spent four years trying to give insight into this to everyone I encountered and was met with either laughter, rolling of the eyes, or direct calls for me to just shut up about it. 

When will the normalcy bias of the masses be altered?  Will it even need to be?

Tue, 07/26/2011 - 16:11 | 1495742 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Their normalcy bias will be shattered when they are starving and dying from exposure.  Unfortunately sheep only realize they are about to be slaughtered after there's no hope for escape.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1490903 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

When his bio airs on Discover ID, then we'll be making real progress.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:42 | 1490909 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

So their plan is to form an unconstitutional genocide committee to make the "tough cuts" so they don't have to take the heat for the certain deaths they cause.

Honestly, these people need to feel danger. They are all comfy and protected up on the hill with their 6 figure salaries and gold-platted medical care.

I don't have any solutions personally. Just hope this doesn't lead to bloodletting in the streets of Washington

Webster Tarpley has some pretty decent solutions. Wallstreet certainly needs to pay for the Depression they created, as far as I am concerned

My dear Congressman —
The American people are not interested in Obama’s Grand Bargain or the Gang of Six plan, which are cowardly and dishonest attacks on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, jobless benefits, and other vital programs. Cuts in these programs will not reduce the deficit, but they will kill Americans. Such cuts represent a veiled form of genocide. We want to save money by ending all the wars, including Obama’s fiasco in Libya. We want the repeal of the failed Bush tax cuts. We want to see Wall Street forced to pay their fair share through a Tobin tax or Wall Street Sales Tax of 1%, with half the proceeds kept by the US Treasury and the other half distributed to the states to stabilize budgets and protect social services. We want the most toxic derivatives — including credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations — banned, as they were from 1936 to 1982. We want a recovery and jobs program in the New Deal FDR tradition, all financed by 0% federal credit from a nationalized Federal Reserve. Reactionary Republicans and Tea Party fanatics need to be fought, not appeased. As for the ratings agencies, they should be on trial for their malfeasance of 2008, and not dictating policy to the US government. If Obama thinks he can get re-elected by catering to Wall Street and by betraying his own base to pander to those morally confused independents, he will meet the fate of Jimmy Carter. Any Democrat who votes to weaken entitlements must expect to be primaried and ousted. We urge you to call McConnell’s bluff and avoid the cataclysm of default by passing a clean bill to raise (or, better, abolish) the debt ceiling with NO CUTS to our hard-won New Deal and Great Society economic rights.
— Webster G. Tarpley Ph.D.

http://tarpley.net/2011/07/21/letter-to-congressman-van-hollen-on-soluti...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1490942 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

unconstitutional genocide committee

the certain deaths they cause

these people need to feel danger

bloodletting in the streets of Washington

You are testy today!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:55 | 1490964 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Even though I'm sympathetic to much of this, putting forth the idea of gov't supplied payments of various sorts as "economic rights" shows complete ignorance of what a right is.

Rights are entirely negative. They define freedom of action and the ways in which it may not be impinged upon by your government or other citizens. No one may prevent you from exercising free speech. No one may take your life. No one may take your property. No one may prevent you from owning a gun, etc etc etc. You don't have a "right" to something which must be provided for you by someone else. That would be a legal obligation for someone else to do something for you or to pay for something for you.  

Mr. Tarpley uses terminology without understanding it and, again, that's unfortunate because I sympathize with much of what he says. He might be shocked to find that the people he calls fanatics might actually, in some cases, understand some things better than he does, such as rights.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:00 | 1491003 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

agree with everything you write.   but those on the Left who do not see what u & i see, yet feel queasy about the whole dog & pony show, it's a pretty sturdy soapbox to stand on.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:49 | 1491159 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Every liberal is aware of this day of reckoning, regardless of whether he or she is a member of the democrat or republican party...  the only hope is that it is on someone else's watch and after he or she has long made escape.  The "queasy" feeling is the acknowledgment that it's going to be on your watch...  also known as a bagholder...  although, some are too stupid to avoid being the bagholder by keeping their hands in the cookie jar too long.

We're at an impasse regarding a significant number of very key issues...  americans are going to take a very, very long time to sort these out and make viable corrections (as are citizens around the world, certainly most all the industrial nations)...  I trust we will do everything in our power to avoid doing so, but that we will eventually come to the right conclusion.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:17 | 1491065 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Good post.  I sympathize with Mr. Tarpley as well and I don't like solutions that involve fighting our citizens.  We need to get people self sufficient and come up with decentralized community mechanisms to make the transition.  Both the system and our people are broken, we need to step back, take care of each other and then regroup.

 

 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:01 | 1491200 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is going to take a hilarious make-over to the american dream...  it goes from champagne wishes and caviar dreams to "I've got all I need and nothing more"???  People travel the world over to live in a really modest home and eat peas while working most of the day doing menial tasks?

Every solution at this juncture requires default.  A default is an attack upon the citizens (hence the rage for entitlements).  This conflict is inevitable...  the hope is that we will be too busy fighting amonst ourselves to present a unified front to those forces who shaped and weilded the system against us.  While we are virtually all to blame, that is not to say that we all have equal culpability.

Unfortunately, humans have a love/hate relationship with crises...  sometimes, we just need a good crisis to work shit out...  it's a terrible relationship, but we haven't the inclination to take a more balanced approach...  I hope we can evolve past this aspect of our development, but I have significant concerns... 

I posit that our grandchildren or great grandchildren will be having this same debate...  I hope that we do a better job of warning them of what is the inevitable conclusion of this type of system...  when our children recreate it.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:28 | 1491092 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Modern Americans seem to confuse privileges with rights. I blame the socialist school system.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:35 | 1491339 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

A few years of real tyranny will clarify that confusion.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 15:45 | 1491688 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

No one may take your life.

Where the hell'd you get THAT? 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 19:21 | 1492385 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Why, is murder legal where you're from?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1490985 r101958
r101958's picture

"Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, jobless benefits, and other vital programs. Cuts in these programs will not reduce the deficit"

Where is this guy living...in LALA land? Unfortunately, without cuts in these programs...and in defense....we will go bankrupt....hell, we already are bankrupt!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:43 | 1491139 Bob
Bob's picture

We want to save money by ending all the wars, including Obama’s fiasco in Libya. We want the repeal of the failed Bush tax cuts. We want to see Wall Street forced to pay their fair share through a Tobin tax or Wall Street Sales Tax of 1%, with half the proceeds kept by the US Treasury and the other half distributed to the states to stabilize budgets and protect social services.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 21:54 | 1492916 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Those key wordz being:  "We want"

People in Hell want ice water too!

I want someone to feed me and do all my chores, but it ain't gonna happen!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:02 | 1490987 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

One more pundit that just doesn't get it. Sovereign countries do not need to borrow money. See the United States Note. ALL of the debt is odious and should be repudiated. Government debt is the scam of the century. Print $14 trillion in United States Notes and pay off the debt or simply wipe it off the books. Any attempt to pay the debt is a gift to the bankers.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:52 | 1491167 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Tarpley agrees with that. Even though he and Ron Paul don't see eye to eye, you can be certain he is in favor of cancelling our debt (1.6 trillion) the FED has bought.

Obviously we don't need to borrow money from a private unconstitutional bank. The United States is a soverign nationstate that should issue its own currency (United States Note) backed by the full faith and credit of the nation.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:02 | 1491209 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Obviously we don't need to borrow money from a private unconstitutional bank. The United States is a soverign nationstate that should issue its own currency (United States Note) backed by the full faith and credit of the nation.

Well BB not many here are going to argue with you on that one.  The tricky part is how exactly one goes about making that reality in this day and age.  I say it's not gonna happen.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:46 | 1491398 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

The US Note may not happen until we have a Great Reset. But I refuse to accept defeat in this regard. I view the Federal Reserve Note as the original sin of our economy.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:56 | 1490993 kito
kito's picture

there are no solutions. cut enough to reach the meat of the actual DEBT, and you will see complete havoc reign. dont cut enough, same ending, just drawn out. i would wager the latter will occur.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:30 | 1491094 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

Agree.

They need to cut the budget by 40+% to eliminate the deficit. They need to cut it by even more to actually do any damage to the debt. Does anyone think a budget cut of 50% is even in the same universe as possible? Excessively raising taxes is equally laughable.

So given that that is not possible, what are the other options? Pretty much the only other option is to just delay it delay it delay it. As long as possible. It'll be worse when the SHTF, but I'm sure most of these political clowns figure it'll be someone elses problem then.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 19:45 | 1492463 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Its not that hard.  Eliminate all the great society entitlements (medicare, medicaid, foodstamps) and get back to budgets (adjusted for population growth and inflation) we had in the 1950s and early 1960s.  Eliminate useless depts created in the interim such as education, energy, TSA etc.  The phony "GDP" consistenting of income transfer (i.e moving money from my pocket to yours and then back again, non-productive) will then flow into the private sector to used as each sees fit.  We need a revolution in personal responsibility to overcome our problems.  And it needs to be bottom up, not centrally planned from above.

Ask yourself- was life really so terrible without these programs?  How did we acheive so much in the first half of the 20th century without them?  For example, the general health condition of the American public was objectively better in the 1950s and 1960s than the present-mostly due to the obesity, inactivity epidemic.  People don't want health care they want good health.  That's mostly sanitation, nutrition and exercise.  If you choose to eat yourself to death, don't expect others to pay for it. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 21:57 | 1492938 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

But, but...poor people would have to rely on Charity and the good will of others!

The rich would be stepping over/on them in the streets, if not for Big Brother!

</sarc>

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:59 | 1491185 whaletail
whaletail's picture

Bingo. No way out. Dollar death spiral. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:03 | 1491013 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Didn't read any solutions in Tarpleys diatribe. I am in support of ending Empire. I am not in favor of taxes that the producing segment of society must shoulder and the wealthy can avoid. All levels of government must stop spending money they will never have, period. That is the solution.

Tarpleys "they will kill Americans" is as dishonest as the Wall Street end-of-the-world scenarios that merely dug the debt hole deeper. The only thing cowardly and dishonest is the belief that this pathetic charade can continue.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 21:59 | 1492950 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Our work, or your (Big Brother) guns:  Choose one, you cannot have both!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:05 | 1491023 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

The hybris of some politicians is quite amazing, isn't it?  There will be acts of violence and of great frustration. There are already. And it will increase. The mood in my country is bitter and angry. And I am not only speaking of a few people in some forums. They have set a path now that will lead to unfortunate events.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:23 | 1491082 dogismyth
dogismyth's picture

Let's face it....acountability is no longer necessary for those in power.  Something as powerful as the ever increasing evidence that 9-11 was an outright lie and deception upon the American people continues to be ignored by those who are elected to protect us and our rights.  Thus, one can only conclude there will never be any accountability or rationale response to injustices in this country and in our lives.   Thus, you must think and act like a heathen.   NATO is bombing the shit out of Libya and has now decided to destroy their water system which is the lifeblood to all people.  They even attack the factories that manufacture pipes and other materials to maintain the water system.  Outright humanitarian crimes are committed daily.  Does anyone care here in the US?  Doesn't appear so.  We let them walk with impunity for their crimes.  We are so involved in "the game" designed for us by the PTB that our only concern is how to get ahead within the confines of the paradigm known as our little black box.

But the fact remains, the world is a selfish place, especially in America.  Very few really give a shit what happens because most are entranced by the system they are subservient to.  Everyone continues to play the game in hopes of benefitting themselves at the behest of others.  Nothing will change because we have not changed.  Sure, we want to see a better life and system from which we operate, but very few take the steps necessary to detach themselves from the corrupt system currently in place.

We wait for change to come from our supposed leaders, the same ones that continue to act criminally day after day.  The problem lies not with them, but with us.

The entire fiasco is a farce and will continue to be so until the people demand otherwise.  And I hope for the best, but I'm a realist and still see many folks safe in their black boxes, continuing to feed the monster.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:36 | 1491113 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Interesting comment and one that deserves to be locked in.

I think you that if you are looking at solving the problems as depicted above, you are fundamentally trying to change human nature.  I just don’t see that happening in our lifetimes.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:54 | 1491173 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This is fiscal contraction that will take U3 to 30%, provide no tax revenue to pay for whatever spending remains, and make everything much worse.

There have to be spending cuts.  They have to be big.  There have to be tax increases.  They have to be big.  

But "big" has an upward limit or the entire system can't survive the shock.

These recommedations are incompetent in that context.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1490911 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

jesus, all this does is delay the catastrophe to next january

 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1490943 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

The catstrophe is already cast in stone. The problem is congress and the executive are bought and paid for shills of the banking establishment that caused the catastrophe.

www.gold-silver.us/forum

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:12 | 1491260 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Blaming the banks for the problem is like blaming the guy who screwed your wife for the infidelity. The question is.. Is our wife (the government) a whore who needs to be thrown out, or was she cheating because we did not pay enough attention to her?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1490912 koot
koot's picture

Hopelessness is defined.  The more things change, the more they stay the same.  If a politicians memory is the breath of a flies lifespan, what does that say about a nation and its citizens? Irreverent wistfulness without a dream is the fertile soil for nightmares. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1490935 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Time for the shorts to get squeezed.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1490937 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

and the NAZ goes green to match Boner's key lime green tie...surprised it took 3 hours...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1490947 Astute Investor
Astute Investor's picture

Custer had a plan.....

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:51 | 1490966 Burgess Shale
Burgess Shale's picture

Why does the US Gov't need to borrow 2.4 trillion in the next 18 months?  And if this is okay, why not eliminate all taxes and just completely fund the Gov't through borrowed money?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:05 | 1491224 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Shit, with the Federal Reserve providing $16 TRILLION to foreign and domestic banks http://dont-tread-on.me/feds-16-trillion-dollar-secret-slush-fund-props-up-our-way-of-life/, the American pubic (intentional) could have all received over a decade free of Federal Income taxes.  Then again, the subjigation of the public through a "progressive" income tax is needed to keep the subjects in check caring about the blue or red team I guess.

Fuck 'em all.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1490976 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

To answer the question in the post: Non-starter.  More like lighter fluid.

Reid's plan is most likely counting war wind-down as a savings ($1T), back-loading the budget cuts, and taking $20B-ish in near term annual cuts, if that.

It could, however, be a $2.5T+ plan with no revenue increases.  Although it would be stupid politics not to include some revenue increases, from fat oil jet corporate cats or whatever it is.  So expect some symbolic tax increases, probably labeled as something else for the time being.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:12 | 1491047 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'War wind DOWN'? I dont know what you mean, we've got wildly escalating wars now in 5 countries, soon to be 7.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:55 | 1490989 augmister
augmister's picture

With a gargoyal leading the Senate, a cry-baby leading the House and a jug-eared liar in the White House, tell me how this can end well.   We are all going to die, so we might as well party like its 1999.........

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:08 | 1491034 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

By God, I miss the '90's.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:13 | 1491048 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Seriously.  The escapades of Monica, Billy C, Newt and the rest seem like an episode of "Friends" compared to this black hole we are in today. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 19:53 | 1492495 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Hey, I remember that government shutdown 1995 quite well and look forward to another.  I recall the only thing that annoyed people then was not being able to get into the national parks-and think how small the National Park budget is!  Shows you how useless most government was and continues to be.  They shut the government down and nobody noticed except a few leeches.  Problem is the fraction of leeches is larger now then at present.

"The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money"  Maggie Thatcher.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:06 | 1491228 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I just miss my blissful ignorance. 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:11 | 1491253 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

I miss the innocence I've known.

Playing Kiss covers, beautiful and stoned.

Wilco - Heavy Metal Drummer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5X2cbU2IJQ

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:59 | 1490998 r101958
r101958's picture

Congress has been spending too much and now they are way over budget. Now that they are way over budget they say they need to increase what they take from us. Sorry, we don't need you to take more of our money so that you can spend more. We need you to spend LESS!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 23:41 | 1493344 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

But, but, but...Granny, the bus...THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

</sarc>

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 12:59 | 1491001 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I will take the Consitutional Amendment for the Balance Budget to be Ratified by the States.

Debt Ceiling be damned, if only the States will ratify the Amendment.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:00 | 1491004 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

If 14 more dems get pursuaded

The Balanced Budget Amendment Passes

And Gold drops like A ROCK

The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. None of the 27 amendments to the Constitution have been proposed by constitutional convention. The Congress proposes an amendment in the form of a joint resolution. Since the President does not have a constitutional role in the amendment process, the joint resolution does not go to the White House for signature or approval. The original document is forwarded directly to NARA's Office of the Federal Register (OFR) for processing and publication. The OFR adds legislative history notes to the joint resolution and publishes it in slip law format. The OFR also assembles an information package for the States which includes formal "red-line" copies of the joint resolution, copies of the joint resolution in slip law format, and the statutory procedure for ratification under 1 U.S.C. 106b.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:03 | 1491015 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Never happen, the only way forward is more money printing, and further into debt abyss, theyll never cut 1 plug nickel.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1491019 r101958
r101958's picture

If they pass something like this then it does not automatically mean the demise of PM's. There are still just as many dollars floating around out there as yesterday and the day before (probably more).

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 15:33 | 1491617 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

And it would mean even less for ppl denominating Gold in Euros

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 23:47 | 1493357 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The proposed Amendment:  "Like ya know, it would really be bitchin' if we like, don't spend any more money than we have in any given year -- just a thought (more like a suggestion really!)"

The US Govt and Progressive/Socialists can't even wrap their heads around the language of the 2nd Amendment, and people expect this group of nim-nulls to come up with an Amendment that balances the budget with no wiggle room??  Beam me off this planet, it's filled with IDIOTS!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:02 | 1491008 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Surprise!!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:38 | 1491351 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I like your new avatar.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:05 | 1491025 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

CNBC reporting major target in debt talks "Home Mortgage deduction"  Take that away, next election will be a complete house sweep top to bottom.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:14 | 1491056 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Its hillarious, any 'deal' includes cutting the hell out of social security, medicare, and the LAST thing americans can benefit from buying a house, the mortgage deduction....THATS their plan?

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:34 | 1491112 j0nx
j0nx's picture

You didn't really think they would pull their revenue from wall street bankster bonuses did you? There is still more meat on that middle class bone to pull off. Ending the mortgage deduction would put one of the final nails in housing. Rising interest rates in the wake of the option ARM reset tsunami later this year would be the other. They have to know this.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:59 | 1491189 r101958
r101958's picture

They'll exempt Congress, the Senate and of course the WH.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:05 | 1491026 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

this is the set up, the two heads of the same beast will announce their separate "plans" and then, still stuck at an impasse, will engage their shiny new super congress to blend the plans together and "get the job done". of course, in the process the PTBs completely bypass the house and senate and the last vestige of government for the people, by the people dies in a bipartisan dictatorship of 12 elite lawmakers...to think we could witness the final step to the official, out in the open, end of the republic in the next couple of days... 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:26 | 1491063 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep, any 'deal' looks incredibly lame, and no way will it include a huge free money payday for Wall St! How this ends in anything but total disaster I cant see, as it all hinges on cuts to SS, Medicare, and home mortgage deduction? WHAT?. Yet all people are talking about is how gold will get hit. Wheres the free money for bubble stocks and bonds??

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:48 | 1491153 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Thanks Marcus...i just threw up in my mouth a little. The worst part is how folks will cheer for them 'saving the day' as the REpublic is swept away.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:23 | 1491302 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Thanks sdmjake.. I just spit in my pants a little. Nice avatar!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 14:38 | 1491357 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

the Politburo comes west.    Mao must be smirking right now.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:09 | 1491037 JR
JR's picture

“The trouble with paper money is that it rewards the minority that can manipulate money and makes fools of the generation that has worked and saved.” – George J.W. Goodman

President Obama knows he has the banker-controlled media on his side; if talks collapse he can just blame the Republicans.

Basically, however, these negotiations really have just two critical parts (Boehner, of course, isn’t as important as the parts). They are:

One, Obama wants a deal that will delay another debt ceiling crisis until after November 2012.

Two, the Tea Party is worried about taxes and cutting the debt.

So far Boehner has been telling the truth; he can’t make a deal unless Obama is willing to negotiate in good faith; so far, the Republicans bring in an idea for negotiation and the President just says: We can’t do that.

The background is that government spending is out of control; this economic death sentence has to be fixed and there comes that vital time to fix it.  If this isn’t the time, when is it? The Tea Party says it’s now, that the Congress needs to stop giving the bankers what the bankers want. And what do the bankers want? They want two things and both are poison -- unlimited access to taxpayer money (inflation, deficit spending, no limits), and a cut in entitlements, particularly Social Security and Medicare. IOW, they want the opposite of what the people want.

Unfortunately for the people, the Republican leadership has said to the bankers, don’t worry, when the final bell sounds, we’ll increase the debt limit for you. Fortunately that’s not what The Tea Party says, and it has the votes to paint the President’s position for what it is: tax and spend to economic oblivion.  

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:20 | 1491072 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

OH so we just coast along in bankruptcy till the end of next year....and then what? All BS.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 23:54 | 1493369 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

When my checking acct. balance reaches zero, I stop spending money, lest the Police arrest me for check-kiting.  Guess the US troops around the World are gonna have to come home, the DHS, TSA, DEA, DOE, etc., get disbanded, Granny and poor people get kicked off the gravy train and rely on DIRECT CHARITY for a change, etc.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:16 | 1491062 youngman
youngman's picture

All the talk is about the raising of the debt limit....I still think no one is going to buy it anyway....no one in their right mind would.....especially after the last month of education we have given the world on how broke we are...on the other hand gold is not shooting up like I think it should be...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1491078 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

Almost all plans end up as austerity plans.  Just a matter of degree, Stupidity.

Tax cuts pay for themselves.  Austerity pays for itself.  Animal spirits?  Let us kill.

 

This looks just about as good as it is going to get. Way too top heavy to go forward.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:22 | 1491080 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

When 'the solution' is reached after the fact that what they did was fix the debt problem by taking control of everyones 401K's and pensions, Im just going to laugh my ass off at everyones sudden outrage and indignation, because Ive been saying thats the endgame for a couple years here.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 23:56 | 1493376 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Too late!  I cashed in my IRA, paid the penalties, then lost ALL the FRNs in a boating accident...

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:27 | 1491089 DUNTHAT
DUNTHAT's picture

AND JUST THINK, MANY HAVE SCORED THE NECESSARY ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE USA TO GET OUT OF ITS DEBT PROBLEM, AND THEY ALL COME UP WITH ADJUSTMENT OF ABOUT 10% OF GDP OR 1.5 TRILLION ANNUALLY.  CONGRESS CAN DO NO BETTER THAN 250 BILLION.  ALL THIS, AND IN A FEW YEARS WILL HAVE TO START THE WHOLE PROCESS OVER AGAIN.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:38 | 1491109 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

LOL, the $250 billion in cuts for THIS year get immediately removed to the Treasury to replace what theyve taken out of govt pensions just in the last month! Theyre going to need a LOT more than a paltry $250 billion 'cuts' a year to avert this trainwreck! And NONE of the cuts promised are govt spending! Those are direct transfer payments out of people checks into other peoples checks....all horseshit, straight up!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:27 | 1491090 DUNTHAT
DUNTHAT's picture

DBBL POST

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:31 | 1491099 MyKillK
MyKillK's picture

I don't want spending cuts to be identified.

 

I want spending to be cut.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:32 | 1491103 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

This is ALL just a bunch of 'baffle em with bullshit'

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:32 | 1491106 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

I think the taxpaying citizenry is the only "committee" you need to consult regarding spending cuts.

01.)  You don't need to pay us, we're already sending in our suggestions

02.)  We already have representatives in congress telling you what these are (ask them to report the truth about what their constituency is writing in to their offices)

03.)  The Constitution is your guide.  If it's not in there... kill it, we can then start over with new entitlements and bureacracies as needed and included into the Constitution via the amendment process.  If it's that needed and urgent, it will find it's way in there.

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:36 | 1491118 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And just think, last Friday this was supposed to be some kind of 'armageddon' day if no deal was reached...LOL!! No deal, and the details of any deal are complete shit....yet markets are just fine! DOW and the rest going green, guaranteed green close! 

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:38 | 1491123 oa92000
oa92000's picture

We need a new name for politician ...jackass

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:48 | 1491154 rodeorider
rodeorider's picture

I'm working the closed formula for the Timmay-Bernank-Fibonacci-brown-stain debt level at the nth round of TimmayBernank debt issuance:F0 = 1 Trillion, F1=1 Trillion, with Fn=Fn-1+Fn-2, n>=2.  Brown Ratio, Bitchez!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:49 | 1491157 rodeorider
rodeorider's picture

I'm working the closed formula for the Timmay-Bernank-Fibonacci-brown-stain debt level at the nth round of TimmayBernank debt issuance:F0 = 1 Trillion, F1=1 Trillion, with Fn=Fn-1+Fn-2, n>=2.  Brown Ratio, Bitchez!

Mon, 07/25/2011 - 13:50 | 1491161 redpill
redpill's picture

I ordered my D'Anconia Copper shirt today.

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