This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Dick Bove On The Foreclosure Settlement: There Is No Sanctity Of Contracts; Only Fools Meet Their Financial Commitments
In a moment of surprising clarity this morning (or perhaps driven by simple ulterior motives as his favorite bank may well be unprepared to cover even this moderate cash payment from existing reserves, as we warned back in January) perpetual bank optimist Dick Bove had some harsh words for the now finalized bank settlement, which he called the "mortgage deal from hell" - "Those people lucky or smart enough to stop making payments on their homes may get their loan balances reduced. Other beneficiaries of the agreement may be homeowners who have seen the value of their houses drop below the size of their mortgages. They get a freebie that other homeowners who have paid their mortgages down will not get....Homeowners who made large down payments on their homes or made the terrible mistake to pay down the principal on their mortgages do not qualify. Homeowners who made minimal or no down payments will get the windfall benefit of a lower principal repayment or a cash payment." And the true bottom line: "There is no sanctity of contracts in the United States. Only fools meet their financial commitments. The non-payers are the truly enlightened." And that is the summary of modern US society in a nutshell, and explains why despite all the deleveraging, inflation still remains a potent threat as the bulk of a household's mandatory continues to be merely discretionary, with everyone else footing the bill. Finally, as Rick Santelli pointed out subsequently, the banks are paying for this settlement using cash proceeds from previous bank bailouts which have not yet been paid out. So to be even more blunt than Dick and Rick -the US taxpayers bailed out the banks, which are now using the balance of said proceeds to pay a settlement which amounts to the tune of $2,000 per every person foreclosed on in the past 3 years, in order to assure their vote for Obama, while in the process trampling contract law, as no longer will anyone in America honor anything printed and signed.
- 25978 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -


How about the iPad Standard? We make iPads to back a paper currency, that creates jobs, which will buy more iPads, so we'll have to make more, which creates more jojo jojo jibber fvckity fvck FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!
Of all the back-woods places you can invest your money you'd have to be fuckin' nuts to invest in the US...
You have to look long and hard to find a finer banana republic...
OMFG Dick, I take back every insult I've hurled at you. Sure your stock pick timing sucks. But damn, you held your ground on the Communist News Broadcasting Center.
btw, my january mortgage payment was my last
Contract law was tossed in the sewer with the Chrysler bond holders if not much sooner.
In how many ways, each an every day are we witnessing the end of the American empire and way of life?
You're not. There never was any American empire but that's beside the point. Seriouisly, $5B each for 5 banks to settle?
bargain...
well, whomever I called dumb the other day for paying the debts of others, Bove is agreeing with me. Fools pay.
The real slaves are the payers and those who carry all the dead weight.
This truly is a ghettoed out grifter nation.
It's masochism and you know it, the sadist only finds him and uses him. Brutal to watch.
You borrow money and you pay your debts for as long as it's making more money. When it stops you get out. Only fools labor to pay back bad debts. No one else does...
The trisk is to be wary of who you lend to...
trisk = trick + risk. Nice.
typo, but good spot...
What about all the people TRICKED into a Student loan for a useless College Degree that doesn't make them any money?
a fool and his money are soon parted.
The planet is chock full of fools. Americans are wilful fools
The planet is chock full of fools. Americans are wilful fools
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
True, and yet irrelevant.
Make me laugh!
The biggest fools of all are the nose-picking, public spitting, eternally blobbing-up Chinese citizenism citizens.
Bovie is a very sly weasel. His smile at the end of the interview would make Lord Blankfein jealous.
It is hardly foolish to believe in something that you have been educated to think is "The Way". The masses are trapped in an inculcated mind set. Breaking that code is most difficult and beyond the ken of most graduates from their system. Give them some slack and help out if you are aware.
Loan children with no jobs or credit history masive amounts of money backed by imaginary future income. What could possibly go wrong?
@ Trav. Yeah, but why is Bove agreeing with you? Bove is a disingenuous shill who is stating that it is a mugs game to pay your mortgage (true dat) and that the guy getting a bailout is getting a leg up at the expense of the hard working Joe, who played the lap dog role as a good little debt slave.
"Oh,no," he claims, "The banks only made losses in the end. They weren't responsible for any preditory lending, securitization of dead-beat loans into AAA rated bonds,etc., no they didn't make any fees and bonuses from that. No, they made losses and bailouts didn't go to them, anf accounting rules haven't been changed to keep their books balanced and no, they didn't recapitalize their balance sheets with Fed injections." No, that just happened in a vacuum and the banks can't be held responsible for that. What a miserable piece of shit. Always a pleasure, DICK.
Back in the day, I know of perfectly reasonable people, of sound educational background, who I warned repeatedly, until I was blue in the face and their eyes had glazed over, that the housing bubble was going to burst, that it was unsustainable and that they were going to get burnt (just before the first tranch of bonds were auctioned in July of '07 for 10 cents in the dollar and then whipped off the table). The figures, charts, bell-ringers (conspiracy nuts such as Schiff, Willie, Blackand a multitude of others), the Credit Default Swaps, CDOs and other bank strategies were there to see but the advertising by the banks had worked its magic. They (mesmerized buyers enthralled by the money [bank] system) stripped off and went skinny dipping, " 'Cos everyone else was doing it and the banks said we could afford it". It was the get rich scheme of the century. What could go wrong? Houses always went up, right.
This rewriting of history by Bove and his ilk is selective, disgusting and lying by ommision. His agreeance with you is affected and a matter of happenstance, unless you are of the same opinion.
It's like MDB trying to create the mindset that it is the silver and gold stackers who are creating the problem because they didn't spend their money(?) on trinkets, in order to keep the GDP ticking over. Sick pieces of shit.
As the above poster said; "We work and make things, to back a depreciating and ultimately worthless paper currency". How fucking wrong is that? We can't even store our labor in it or create wealth with it because it is fundamentally a wealth transfer device to those who are unpoductive, just as this settlement demonstrates.
good-will hunting
Hey, no shit. Immunity from prosecution over fraud, not needing to "buy back" materially fraudulant mortgages, etc...way tre bargain there for $5 Bill. Shit give me some of that action!
Dick Bove is an Idiot, Dick Bove is a wanna be Republican Conservative and Dick Bove therefore is a Treasonous Piece of Shit.. who should be tar and feathered! And then Hung on the White House Lawn with his Brethren.
The Banks….
That Dick is Crying! Foul!! over….
Created Fee’s of Billions and Billions ever time they combined these Loans into a new package.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage-backed_security
And then there was the CDO’s that paid so well because of the Failure of the Structured products offered!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation
The Banks have since.. Created Fees of Billions and Billions, yet again! To sell the New Normal Re-Packaged Deals..
http://theglobalrealm.com/2011/09/03/jpmorgan-bofa-sued-by-fhfa-over-mortgage-backed-securities/
AFTER!!!!
Writing down the losses and re-capturing the cash on the bottom line.
http://www.wikinvest.com/metric/Mortgage-Backed_Securities_(MBS)
As for the Home Owners who paid NOTHING?!?!?!?
http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/affordablehousing/programs/home/addi/index.cfm
this program was grown by 100’s of %! But there was NOT! enough money there to cause a collapse of structured debt products that had been repackaged half a dozen times PLUS!
There is NO WHERE in the United States that the Market has dropped 20%!
http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/
The Real Estate markets have dropped (100’s of %) Hundreds of Percent! In some places but at least! 50% across the board..
So this magic math of 20% and the guy next door is fucked because he didn’t pay is BULLSHIT!
The guy next door is down 50%!
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/North-America/United-States/Price-History
I will add as well that this Mess, this Global Mess is because of Wall Street and its short term view.
We as a Country are controlled by Lobby Dollars that flow from the top 1% of the top 1%.. 80% of the lobby dollars in America come from the top 1% of the top 1%..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/top-bailout-recipients-sp_n_346877.html
The Banks that Drove the ENTIRE! Country off the Cliff! are still the Biggest Lobby! And they still get the MOST! MONEY!!
http://209.190.229.100/news/2009/02/tarp-recipients-paid-out-114-m.html
Those dollars manipulated Washington DC into ignoring our Energy Security!
We don’t have enough CHEAP Energy! To go round in America! To sustain growth of ANY KIND!
The World does NOT! have enough Cheap Energy to Sustain Growth of any kind!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuLjGQQ-jg
The Central banks have Printed Mountains of Cash!
Cash or Liquidity is NOT!! the Problem!
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE
Wall Street Fucked us ALL!! Over!
That is why American Lost their Jobs!
That is why Americans can NOT! pay their Mortgages!
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105
Dick Bove is the problem! Him and everyone like him!
+1MM for research and synthesis.
True with alot BS spouting the wrong conclusion !!
IF OBAMA AND PLACE HOLDER WOULD ENFORCE THE LAW - BANKS AND WALL STREET COULDNT DO THIS SHIT !!
THE PROBLEM IS GOVERNMENT CROOKS TAKING THE MONEY TO IGNORE THE LAWS !!!
What are you talking about? Just turn on the TV. I recommend catching up on the news with a little PNN (Propaganda News Network). In case you didn't know, we are cashing checks and snapping terrorist necks all over the world while we spread democracy and freedom to the oppressed along with the convenience of only having to deal with one currency when you sell your oil. The next stop for American Exceptionalism...the moon! Fuck you Russia, Newt called it first. Just drop us off and come back in an hour. Disney Sea of Tranquility, I'm there.
All joking aside, this is a fucking tragedy for the USA, the rule of law, fair play, and contracts. Justice has just been flushed down the toilet.
The rule of law? When has there ever been an equal rule of law in the USA? You must be reading school history books. The real history doesn't match the sheeples version.
I feel contractual law is one of the few valid arguments to have a government as a necessary evil. Small business just cannot catch a break in this environment of uncertainty and lawlessness. One has to love how these people justify all these injustices as been for the common good. The same arguments communism makes.
Contracts now are about who you know, not the law or the black letter.
If you have superior patronage, your "rights" are whatever you say they are. It's like playground or jailyard law.
It's the only kind of law that has ever actually existed; the law of the jungle. All of the spirits that the sucker masses are beholden to--rule of law, society, the American People, security, law and order--function actually to cement the aristocracy by mindfucking the plebes into submission to a higher cause. Where the hypocrisy might be too obvious, simply invent new terms to distinguish between the legitimate and criminal realization of equivalent concepts; nobody will question that imprisonment is legitimate, while kidnapping is criminal, or that taxation is legitimate, while extortion is criminal, etc. And while the intellectual elite idiots hang out on internet message boards bickering about the violation of this or that right [special permission], the kings of the jungle who profit from all of the un-rights [laws] sit back and count their loot.
WRONG.
At one point, the country was run by christian white males who had principles and morals. The standards they established of ethics and rules of behavior stood the nation in good stead until that dominant morality was displaced by a judeo ethic.
The christian white male, George Washington, had the option to be KING. He refused and set the standard of consecutive terms that would ultimately be enshrined into the Constitution. Other christian white males could have become kings or despots and yet they insisted on rules that limited THEIR OWN POWER.
And why was the dominant morality displaced by a Judeo ethic?
Max Fischer
nonsense, and you know it.
the "white christian males" may have benefited from their ruling, but please, lets not pretend that the good ole boys club did not favour each other at the EXPENSE of anyone NOT a "white christian male" - your main complaint, and others like you, is that the baton of this privilege has been passed along to others not like you, who don't recognise you as a "superiour" being. . .
on a long enough historical timeline, inevitable, as is your collective bitterness. welcome to the real world.
your main complaint, and others like you, is that the baton of this privilege has been passed along to others not like you, who don't recognise you as a "superiour" being. . .
Well constructed and completely true. It is the weakness of the racist; The Blame Game.
Every US President in history has claimed to be a Christian.
So your point is what exactly?
United States Constitution: Article 1 Section 10 POWERS DENIED INDIVIDUAL STATES.(1) No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance or confederation; grant letters of marque----pass any bill of attender, ex post facto law, or law impairing the right of contract, or grant titles of nobility.
(2) POWERS DENIED INDIVIDUAL STATES EXCEPT BY CONSENT OF CONGRESS. No state shall, without the consent of CONGRESS ----enter into any agreement or compact with another state---.
To my knowledge #2 has not been fullfilled and Congress cannot pass off its constitutional duties to the Executive branch as I have shown in my critique of the Federal Reserve act summarized below.
by Milestones
on Sun, 11/21/2010 - 14:22
#
Mr. T., I addressed this issue a couple of times "The Trials and Tribulations of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913" on 6-15-10 and a couple of times later. In fine, let me answer you in brief.
My argument lies in Article 1, Section 8 (5)-Powers of Congress. The Congress SHALL have power: to coin money, REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF,--". That power was apparently DELEGATED to the Federal Reserve Bank. That DELEGATION of authority to the Federal Reserve is my question. Did Congress have the authority to delegate that authority to "regulate the value thereof"?
Panama Refining Co. v Ryan 293 U.S. 388 1935
"The Constitution provides 'that all legislative powers herein GRANTED SHALL be vested in the Congress of the United States, which shall consist Senate and House of Representatives.'--The Congress MANIFESTLY IS NOT PERMITTED to abdicate or to TRANSFER TO OTHERS the essential legislative functions with which it is vested.---Cannot be allowed to obscure the limitations of the authority to delegate, if our constitutional system is to be maintained."
Field v Clark 143 U.S. 649 1892
--"The legislative power must REMAIN in the organ where it is lodged by that instrument."
Sovereignty is granted to "We the People" in the first 3 words of the Preamble. As such, under the Constitution, we the people delegate our Sovereign authority to persons to REPRESENT us in day to day dealings. But it is the reserve of the Soverigns to delegate authority not our reperesentatives. John Locke came to the same conclusion.
I would contend that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is illegal under the Constitution. Further, if we consider Marbury v Madison of 1803, a decision has stood for over 200 years, the case can be stated in far starker terms:
Marbury v Madison 17 Wall 205 Cranch 2 1803
"Thus the particular phraseology of the Constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principal, supposedly to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is VOID; and the courts AS WELL AS ALL OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE BOUND BY THAT INSTRUMENT."
Not only did Congress not have the authority to submit such a document as the Federal Reserve Act of 1913; likewise President Wilson had no authority to sign it. See the last sentence of the above.
Yes, I know, the Constitution has been turned into a roll of toilet paper to the 1%ers but that is still the document I still march to as do most others . If that not be the case then we would be far better served now to be comparing an AR-15 to an AK-47.
If those unhappy with the way things are want a change, we must state our concerns and grievances in a fashion that those who are totally uninformed can have a place, a handle so that a nightmare of a 2nd revolution can be avoided.
There was a ton of groundwork done before Jefferson wrote his magnificent document of 1776. Milestones
I am with you, friend, but the bold just isn't working. Maybe if you used Xtranormal's cartoon bears, then a few more people might take the time to hear and understand the travesty you portray, Milestones.
Maybe add some profanity as we Americans find it hard to pay attention unless there is an f-bomb every few sentences. Possibly there is a nudity option for the bears as well?
Good luck.
. . . and don't forget the farting, amrkns love the farting. . .
+1
Fart jokes are ALWAYS funny. What's wrong with you?
you said: The same arguments communism makes.
No - the same arguement FASCISM makes - this is one way contract law for an oligarchy which controls the system
then why are the oligarchs paying the sheep 26 billon?
It's a 10% tithe. A small fraction of what was made and the poorest group should be the easiest to buy off at election time
Social Justice scks.
I have only one thing to say regarding contract law - MF Global
What is your plan? Short Sale,Foreclosure...Just Curious
he can probably sit in it without paying and save crap tons of a money for a year or 2 before they do anything about it.
Just to give you an idea of the time mine took:
We moved out in October of 2009 after being behind on the mortgage on purpose by two months. BoA said they would not even talk to me until I was behind, so I went ahead and gave up fighting to make the bill (I was going under financially at the time anyway). Before my credit was ruined though and my family was homeless, I acted in advance to get a rental while my credit was still good. Once we moved out, we let the bank know and hired a short sale negotiator. Then over two years the short sale negotiator provided the bank nine different good offers. All of them were declined by the bank, or the bank sat on the decision long enough that the buyer's contract expired. After about two and a half years, the place foreclosed even though we did not want it to go to foreclosure. BoA assured me and the negotiator that it was in an "approved short sale process" and would never be foreclosed on. It was foreclosed on anyway one month when the negotiator dropped the ball on a response. Basically, BoA stalled, stalled, and stalled some more until we were at the "fuck it" stage. Then they sneaked in and foreclosed it.
The obvious fact is to never trust a damned thing they tell you. It is all lies. They also must have a strong incentive to NOT let it short sale. Apparently, it is better for their books to foreclose. I made no money on the deal because I did not squat in it as others have done. I highly recommend people NOT squat, even throwing out the moral issues, because you need to have good credit to get a rental in most cases. If you wait until your credit is effed, then getting a rental will be very difficult (unless you use the money from not paying the mortgage to pay for the entire year's rent in advance perhaps).
Our place was appraised for 130K, and I owed 384K. For the four years that I paid my mortgage, the bank made 36K a year off me too. Should I have stayed and waited for the market to recover? I couldn't afford the payment anymore anyway, but that would have been insane to do. The neighborhood went from all professionals to section eight housing too, and the crime went through the roof. When I bought the place, I was single with no debt or medical bills. When I walked away, I had married, had three children, and had a wife with major medical bills piling up with more medical expenses to come.
I broke the contract, but I did not squat. I sleep soundly at night too. What I did any reasonable person would have done.
Edit with two more facts:
I had to maintain mortgage insurance until it foreclosed, and for most of the time I had to maintain the utilities too while it was being shown to prospective buyers. The bank expected us to still stay in it too, so squating while waiting for it to foreclose is indeed a possibility. Just be sure you have back up housing when the sheriff finally does come to kick your butt out.
I agree with everything you just said and did.
I agree also.
A true opportunist would not only have stopped paying and rented elsewhere, but also would have rented out the foreclosing house to someone else. Which brings up the point that renting is no guaranty that the sheriff won't show up one day and evict you in foreclosure...
Even if you are a good American playing by the rules and meeting your obligations, you have effectively stopped making payments on the mortgage and are maxing out credit cards to buy stuff you don't need, by proxy, thanks to your Federal goverment.
We are all squatters now.
Oh man, you have no idea how true this is, and how many people were doing exactly what you said a true opportunist would do. When my ax and I lived in Scottsdale, AZ back in 2009-2010, we knew people that had been evicted by sherrifs multiple times, in some cases as many as five times -- and not just a couple of folks, dozens. It did get the the point where the people in foreclosure were at least telling the renters the place was in limbo and could get shut down at any time. Given rents, the "landlords" were clearing $25-36K/year, and having someone else pay for utilities and upkeep!
Truly insane.
So you think it's a good idea to rent the forclosure so some family gets kicked out on the street because they don't know the mortgage isn't getting paid?
It's so typical in America to make someone else suffer while you gain. I really don't think TPTB are that far off, even a debtor can screw the poor and middle class and not give a crap about it.
I had considered that idea, but I wasn't sure if it was legal or not. It was certainly unethical, so that is why I decided not to take that route. My original idea was to rent it month to month, with the renter knowing the situation.
I cannot agree more about being a renter and having to be careful who you rent from. There's just as much risk as a renter since so many landlords are not paying mortgages. The guy I'm renting from now seems on the up and up and is paying as far as I know. There's no guarantee however!
you made ethical decisions that you could live with, on behalf of your family as well, deserving of respect . . . but as you can see in the comments, this is not always the case, and I think it's one of the distinguishing characteristics of most as we go forward - what can I get out this, who can I manipulate to get more, who's the mark?
the morals and ethics in amrka are shot, top to bottom - the lack of trust is a feature of this culture.
A comercial decision swiftly followed by a strategic default; That's what Russia did. Can we blame the individuals that follow?
Only mugs pay up these days...
Bad credit? LOL.
Offer the rental cash up front. NOBODY is turning that down. I once offered to cash 6 months worth because I didn't have a W2 job at the time and they immediately reversed their skepticism.
Don't rent a corporate rental, find a private or a prop company representing an individual landlord.
Trav, exactly! I've rented for many years, and bad credit (my score is now in the 600's) does not stop you from getting a rental. You just have to put more down. A past landlord and my current one did not even check my credit. That's right. They didn't even pull it. How's that possible some may ask? When you put down enough cash, they frankly do not give a damn. My job security and the fact that I have zero debt with a high salary also help a ton. My vehicle is paid off and fairly new, I have a credit union credit card that is paid off, and I could get a loan through my credit union any time I wanted (even with the foreclosure on my record now).
True, paying up front is the best credit score you can get.
unfortunately, your credit doesn't start to repair until the foreclosure paperwork is actually filed and completed or a short sale is approved and sale completed.
the only disadvantage to squatting and sitting there with no payments as long as you can is that you might one day come home to new locks with your stuff on the lawn. but you usually have a good idea if that day is near.
I plan to never use credit again. To hell with paying other people interest.
Right on, Dreamer. I wonder how many have been alive long enough to remember when people carried cash and paid in cash, there really was no revolving credit. I was 8 or 9 and walking through a department store with my Mom (must have been 1961 or so). We saw a banner across the main aisle that read, DON'T USE CASH, CHARGE IT, and the banner had a charging elephant on it (oh how clever). After asking about it I was schooled on saving for things and do not buy what you can't afford, etc., etc. Incidently, do not buy what you can't afford is a great SNL skit from awhile back with Steve Martin and other cast members, google it.
Silver,
You did what was correct according you your moral compass and are of good conscience with those regards. Good for you and sleep well.
spigot
Sounds to me as if squatting would have been the best thing to do, at least with hindsight.
And no, moral objections do not apply as you are bound by contract only.
Not sure where your events happened, but it sure sounds like Cali and as far as I know that state has something like 2 months notice for evictions.
It was in Northern Virginia.
Yeah, depends. Sometimes they do nothing for years, sometimes in some states you can hire an attorney and fight through the courts and hold out cheaply for years.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is the straw that finally broke the camels back, crushes housing prices and brings down the whole mortgage industry.
Not for the feint of heart but this is an option.
Bank of America CEO Moynihan to be Named as Defendant in Federal Foreclosure Lawsuit
Just throwing that out there...
cc: chunga! OMG!
Oh well.
The real funny part is BAC blamed it on the scumbags THEY hired at Harmon Law
They always manage some sort of plausible deniability. No matter how absurdly implausible that may be.
Heck, they've got these bonehead AGs carrying their water now.
The dope from Oklahoma was the lone "maverick" holdout. He actually thought this was too harsh on the friendly pig men...lol.
Mine, too. Filing for quiet title.
GOD made dick (head) bove a moron - he has no choices in life !
anyone who would take fianncial advice from this clown should have his head examined and CNBC for putting him on the air
Are the clips mixed up or what? I just do not get your take on this. Bove is talking about the poor banks and how we profitted from the bailout. Total BS. The only reason why the banks do not like it when people walk away from their mortgage is because the value of the collateral has been inflated due to the banks' fraud.
Hope & Change with the Democrat's Allah.
Moral hazard, bitchez!
I love you.
It was only a matter of time that people would start to come around to Chumbawamba's way of perception.
I am Chumbawamba.
Good to see ya Chumbles!
I have missed you chumb. You and cdad, always just clarify things in a very blunt way.
It is nice to be missed, thank you. Comebacks are even better. And coming back, I am, with a vengeance.
Soon. Watch for me, in the area above the headlines.
-Chumblez.
chumbawubma = jared loughner wannabee.
How was prison?
ITG = Chumbawamba wannabe.
-Chumblez.
I see nothing changes around here
Chumbawamba chuckles.
Would you like to know why Chumbawamba chuckles?
Chumbawamba will tell you why Chumbawamba chuckles:
No one ever came to Zero Hedge looking to read Internet Tough Guy's comments.
I am Chumbawamba.
Been gone a long while myself Chumba. Glad to see you keepingt the faith.
I even find that your mere presence evidences a diminishment of fine lines and wrinkles in my skin, along with more regularity, and increased clarity of thought.
'Sup dude? Good to see you back in here.
Women's tits get bigger in my presence as well. I'm like the Messiah of cosmetic surgery or something.
-Chumblez.
Perception! It's all about what you see!
Reality is perception
Dickhead bove actually making sense? What's this world coming too?
He's just a whiny little bitch, that's all.
Because he didn't default on HIS loan...
Making sense? Did you not catch the part where he claimed the bailout wasn't really a bailout because the taxpayers made $150B? He conveniently didn't include all the multi-trillion worth of MBS's which were purchased at par, are worth significantly less and are still stuck on the Fed's balance sheet.
He's a fucking liar.
Not a bailout? Are you kidding me? What about the Asset-Backed Commercial Paper Money Market Mutual Fund Liquidity Facility? What about the Asset Guarantee Program? What about the Bear Stearns back-stop? What about all the GSE purchases? What about the Commerical Paper Funding Facility worth nearly $2 Trillion? What about all the Foreign Exchange Swaps? What about the Term Asset backed Securities Loan Facility? What about the Term Auction Facility? What about the Term Securities Lending Facility? What about all the bond purchases? What about ZIRP? What about paying par for AIG's liabilities? Etc. Etc. Etc....
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/
Not a bailout? Go fuck yourself, Bove.
Max Fischer
First time I can honestly say I agree with you. As much as it pains me to admit it :)
Dick Bove is either a misguided toady or a lying whore.
he's blatantly misdirecting the issue to the delinquent vs responsible home buyer.
this has naught to do with consumers. hopium is not a crime. let them lose the house.
it has to do with the law -forged approvals are a fraud, robosigning is felony. wrongful
seizure of property when you no longer hold the first liens on the title is a crime.
it has to do with debt seniority and once again the destruction of orderly liquidation.
the banks are not the first liens on these homes. if the mortgages were sold off via MBS
the first liens belong to the institutional funds, read 401k pensions and health funds,
who were peddled that trashy paper.
the banks, agencies, and realtors should be in jail, and any funds should bail out investors.
if he truly cares about market fairness, he should care about the owners of the AAA tranches.
"There is no sanctity of contracts in the United States. Only fools meet their financial commitments."
sad but true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxCVJyjBwNQ
The paper system is dying isn't it? Not making excuses, but that's the reality. People walk away from dying systems to protect themselves.
let me get this right - bove says, there's no sanctity in contract law regarding financial obligations. where ya been dickhead! get your head out of your ass and look around. the 0.01% have been riding the gravy train for a century plus - just ask the "Donald", how easy it is to skirt contractual law
Ps. who in their right mind would invest in a "TBTF" anyway?
...Cdad, ''Moral Hazard'' means if you let us remain free to commit crime against you it's because you are just like one of us, not a lawful terrorist who holds life liberty freedom independence and justice for all as the ''moral standard''. The ''Moral Hazard'' means you are the Suicide Vampire Squid of the Great Global Wal Mart of China.
THE MORAL HAZARD MEANS GO TO HELL
all you soldiers
GO TO HELL
America laughs at your widow and her child
GO TO HELL
The police are now pigs to be slaughtered
GO TO HELL
The Moral Hazard is America
GO TO HELL
Ummmm...the phrase "Moral Hazard" refers to our govt/banks rewarding bad behavior [people putting no money down on loans, lying on their loan apps, not making payments] while punishing those who follow the rules, make prudent decisions, in this case paying a proper price for a house and securing its financing...thus resulting in the hazard of more and more people choosing to do the wrong thing and joining the slacker crowd buying iPads and not sending in the monthly mortgage check.
I have no idea what YOU are saying...unless you are saying that somehow America has the explicit rights to poor morality...which I assure you is not the case. There are bad people everywhere, but the idea is supposed to be that you provide negative consequences for bad behavior, and positive for good...which is exactly the opposite of things up the American Banana Republic Tree...currently.
Dick Bove...rockin' the house! You go, Dick!
The Government long ago, undermined the entire system by failing to protect the rule of law. As such, it is now - realistically - every man must determine the proper decision for himself and his family. This is obviously true when the so-called "negative" consequences are NO LONGER NEGATIVE! The world is upside down, because the Government has long interfered in the free market and distored things.
Cdad. don't even try to escape judgment. When the trust is broken that goes all the way down to the Private in the field. It means the misson has compromised our defense. What? soldiers did not just lose? Soldiers do not own homes? Soldiers did not do everything right?
...oh shit, just got killed
...oh shit, my limbs are gone.
...oh shit, my eyes are gone.
...oh shit, my wife is a widow and my child is an orphan.
...oh shit, my commander just robbed me.
...oh shiiiiiiiit.
and if you are a police officer
...oh shit, I am now nothing more than fascist pig for protecting criminals that just robbed me.
What part do you not understand Cdad?
If this is a reference in the spiritual sense, NO ONE escapes judgement...not even old virtuous Cdad.
Beyond this, I think your cheese has slipped off of your cracker, sir.
http://bible.cc/luke/21-36.htm
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/15-51.htm <<<you do not accept this ''change'' but you will buy sell and trade the NWO ''Moral Hazard'' ''change'' of Rosemary's Baby O' market of child sacrifice and slaughter? LOL. Maybe you just did not know, huh? Lol
..Lol, yeah. I paid cash in full for my last home. I sold it a year and three months later in 2007. I gained a net profit, after all was said and done, of about 10K at 30K more than I paid for it. Oh wait, that nice view on the ocean has lost about a 100K of it's value and I am now giving my hard work and my gains to the person that now owns the home, I mean moral hazard, oops, I mean what our soldiers and police stand in defense of.
Cheese and Crackers, lol.
P.S. I served in the military and I was even born a brat. I have served in government <<one of the best at my job) and I have worked as a laborer and I have run my own business. I don't have any debt at all. So yeah man, you are correct. Lol.
Why did I serve? ..so I could pay for the ''moral hazard''? Lol.
I just called myself a pig etc... for serving. Do you think I have that right?
P.S. Am I a pig?
...now consider the ''pigs/PIIGS'', lol, the pigs in scripture. For instance, the ones that ran down into the water an perished into the deep dark pool of the bottomless pit. Lol. Legion/Debt/Mark of the Beast/Chairsatan and the Suicide Vampire Squid of the Great Wal Mart of China (LMAO), cast out of the human host and into unclean swine, lol. Did you notice that mercy came to the man who was the host for Legion and not for the pigs? Now consider who lost. Oh yeah, the guys that owned and sold the pigs. Who ended up getting tortured and killed for that? Lol. That's right, Christ is the Mercy of our Father in Christ, that is the risen mercy upon the tree. That is the risen tree of mercy. Who sacrificed mercy like a pig for sale to consumers and who were the soldiers that carried out the (new world,lol) orders?
Cdad, where is Legion now? Is there homeless cheese and crackers among the tombs today? Lol. Did you pay for some swine to secure you? Cdad, do you want mercy or do you want the ''moral hazard''? Lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbOce1JFCdU ...bullish Bitchez. Aaah haa haa haaaa.
deleted (and down voted)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF0hzbB0fWY
Speaking of trees. Here are some trees that bare witness of coming judgment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXei0Zb3dxM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuShOO_dSQ
Possession rapidly becoming 100% of the law, Same as it ever was, hedge accordingly.
So time to own real stuff instead of paper stuff...same as we've been saying around here for a while...bithcez
if its written on a piece of paper, its worth the paper its printed on. that goes for frn's AND contracts
aaaahfreakingmazing.
Ya Comay - A contract is only as good as the paper it's written on was a Great Depression saying. My Grandmother that lived through it also told me "Never trust a banker they love foreclosures". That didn't make sense to me until 2008 as to why.
The break down of the rule of law happened then as it is happening now. People formed groups to protect one another from criminality. What is old is becoming new again. The courage to do so is derived from necessity, the mother of all invention. God bless and best of luck.
I am not in favor of rewarding the individuals who are not blameless in this mess but letting the banks off the hook for fraud is even stupider
If individual states take banks to court and win, and distribute that money to the claimants, that is the way America works currently and good on ya.
But if Individual states take the banks to court and before they win they drop the case, So that the president (in an election year) can fine the banks enough to buy votes of the people stupid enough to buy more than they could afford. That is wrong.
The banks should pay for their fraud but the president should not be able to cash in on it.
My video is all messed up. Can someone tell me if Bove issued a slightly bearish comment on a bank issue? If so I'll go all in XLF long.
don't dare go short anything. maybe pm's. bernake is simply not having it.
I said long.
Bove is always bullish on banks and wrong. So if he gets a little bearish on them I suspect that will be wrong too.
cvldobd - agree with you, i understood long on your behalve. it just makes me nervous when this guy changes his tune. wish you all the best of luck. i watch BAC trades like a penny stock up and down 4, 5 %. i played the stock market for years, and i just can't do it anymore, it doesn't make sense to me.
heres a tip, buy near term at the money puts and calls, just bet on the volatility of the market
This has been the case in the civil court system for a long, long time. Paper used to rule in this country...now smoke and mirrors rules. When paper ruled, disputes were too easy to resolve, and lawyers could not charge as much.
Try Greece. Apparently the courts' will let you off just for being a tad skint...
And in the real world you would be bankrupted if you couldn't pay your debts.
lol...can't resist the opportunity to send out the criminal psyops mouthpiece.
damn he is spot on!
go dick go!!
Mission Accomplished!
Jefferson,lol, that is perfect. That should be the banner in front of the White House, Fed, Supreme Court and the Capitol Building.
an old saw from law school is that the law favors a breach.
Paging Santelli
"You realize that's garbage, right?"
We are all GM bond holders now.
Unfortunately you two guys are right. + 1
Character counts, and it looks like the worst is yet to come.
And when "they" roll this out in plain view and the Public yawns because they either don't understand, don't care or benefited in some way, what do you think is coming next?
Americans can own all the guns they want, apparently they are afraid to use them.
Stockholm Syndrome, we've been held captive by the banks for too long.
I don't think it's so much a fear of use, as it is a fear of being one of the first to use. Because we all know what will happen to the poor valiant souls who decide to start the party.
It's all about reaching critical mass amongst the population. That won't happen in the foreseeable future in this society. Too many dumbed-down sheep dependent on gubment in one way or another, and way too divided by multiculturalist mumbo-jumbo to ever come together.
I hope Dylan goes nuts tonight
Jeebus. After destroying my credit in an alcoholic frenzy in the late '90's-early 2000's, I spent years repairing it and it is now near perfect. I have no debt except the mortgage. Common sense is telling me to stop making payments, but damn, after all that work...
I did the exact opposite and now am hoping that everyone else in the country sinks to my level so I don't look so bad.
Looks like you won't have to wait long.
It's rather lonely and scary here at the moment, could use a little company ;).
On another topic...with all the Baltic Dry talk these days, is it getting any cheaper to ship those bearings?
Alas no, not cheaper to ship. Our bearings get consolidated into containers with other cargo. No savings yet.
If you're going into a haze try my "Death After Midnight" (modeled on Hemingway's "Death in the Afternoon"):
1 part iced water
1 part absinthe
3 parts raspberry vodka
It's a good glide-path before going to bed...
Sorry man but when Banks and their perpetual supporters start pontificating about how people should follow the rule of law and paying lip service to the virtues of contracts and moral integrity, it's time to turn off the fuckin TV's and sharpen the guillotine blades.
This farce needs to be brought to an immediate halt.
"the banks didnt make money off mortgage derivatives" what a douche
It's a bullshit, window dressing reach around in an election year where the Repubs. are stumbling through the primaries like drunken clowns.
What we are seeing in corporatism is what the Irish saw during the potato famine. As corporations consume more and more small and midsize banks and businesses, the whole of the market world has to depend on less and less variety/choices. When shit goes down they consume more resources/capital just to try to stay alive. As with the Irish, depending on just one type of potato was massively fatal to the whole. Depending one one type of bank/business/supplier is also just as fatal.
Dick, this is nothing new....you might wish to look at what old JP Morgan used to do along with other assorted Robber Baron era Blankfein predecessors.....
The financial elite in the U.S. have been doing this forever.....it would be more surprising if suddenly it ceased.
Sounds like potential Obama voters will be happy. Why am I not surprised?
There are millions of home owners drastically underwater because of the crash. This isn't just about one group--in this case those who typically are moochers. I had a home foreclose. BoA had 9 good offers for short sales given to them, and they refused to accept any of them. The negotiator dropped the ball one month, and it went to foreclosure. I wasn't squating in it either, so I have zero guilt what so ever. The place went from 384K to 130K in value. We out grew the place, and my wife had serious medical problems (surgery required on multiple occasions). It was either sell it or walk away. Selling it was not an option, so we walked. I gave up the collateral, and now my credit is ruined. It's too bad for the bankers that I no longer need credit however.
You defend it...
Yet, if you were still in your house, you might get a principle write down and rate lowered out of this. But you won't, because your house is already gone. So you get nothing, just like the rest of us who pay.
Actually, depending on the circumstances, he may get $2,000.
Actually, I'm not defending it at all, and I've already stated I'm against people squatting. A mortgage is a contract folks. If you break the contract, you give up the collateral. That's exactly what I did. See the other long reply I put in the thread for the full story too (if you're really interested).
I disagree with you, only because you are advocating playing by the rules while they do not. Nor are they willing to help folks stay in their homes by at least lowering rates to market if you are dramatically under water. Even if that is the wrong thing to do financially. If GGP can declare BK and refinance and KEEP all its properties with new loan balances and terms.. why is that impossible for any of us?
I should mention that I tried to work with BoA. They refused. We did not qualify for any government or bank programs either because I was employed and making way too much money. We were given no choice other than to go broke trying to pay it or to walk away. Since being homeless was not an option with children, I of course opted to strategically default (with many good reasons, so I even hate using that term since it implies it was not necessary).