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Dick Bove On The Foreclosure Settlement: There Is No Sanctity Of Contracts; Only Fools Meet Their Financial Commitments

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In a moment of surprising clarity this morning (or perhaps driven by simple ulterior motives as his favorite bank may well be unprepared to cover even this moderate cash payment from existing reserves, as we warned back in January) perpetual bank optimist Dick Bove had some harsh words for the now finalized bank settlement, which he called the "mortgage deal from hell" - "Those people lucky or smart enough to stop making payments on their homes may get their loan balances reduced. Other beneficiaries of the agreement may be homeowners who have seen the value of their houses drop below the size of their mortgages. They get a freebie that other homeowners who have paid their mortgages down will not get....Homeowners who made large down payments on their homes or made the terrible mistake to pay down the principal on their mortgages do not qualify. Homeowners who made minimal or no down payments will get the windfall benefit of a lower principal repayment or a cash payment." And the true bottom line: "There is no sanctity of contracts in the United States. Only fools meet their financial commitments. The non-payers are the truly enlightened." And that is the summary of modern US society in a nutshell, and explains why despite all the deleveraging, inflation still remains a potent threat as the bulk of a household's mandatory continues to be merely discretionary, with everyone else footing the bill. Finally, as Rick Santelli pointed out subsequently, the banks are paying for this settlement using cash proceeds from previous bank bailouts which have not yet been paid out. So to be even more blunt than Dick and Rick -the US taxpayers bailed out the banks, which are now using  the balance of said proceeds to pay a settlement which amounts to the tune of $2,000 per every person foreclosed on in the past 3 years, in order to assure their vote for Obama, while in the process trampling contract law, as no longer will anyone in America honor anything printed and signed.

 

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Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:36 | 2142502 tecno242
tecno242's picture

see.. they don't help or play by the rules, so why should anyone honor the contract?

Had you squatted for 2.5 years while arguing with them,.. say your current rent is 2,000$ a month.  You would have put over 50k in the bank... ironically in a bank. haha

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:11 | 2143014 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

or a shiny pile of metal that would of grew nicely and thus allow him to start his own bank...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:14 | 2143025 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

That's another piece of the puzzle that people need to realize.  While you are in the short sale process, you are required to provide all of your bank statements.  They want to see if you really are as broke as you say you are.  I was of course, but they still fucked me.  According to everything I knew, I was an ideal candidate for an approved short sale.  Everything was done by the book and with the bank's approval.  We still got shafted of course.  Yeah, I was paying 36K a year for that place, so that would have been a lot of cash.  The bank would not have allowed the process to go on that long though if they knew I was pocketing so much cash.  You have to show your pay stubs and bills.  They can tell what your cash flow is of course.  Well, sure, I suspect the game could be played to hide your income and inflate bills, but I was not going to do that.  As you said though, playing by the rules does not help at all.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:19 | 2143044 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I know a lot of folks get pissy on here too when people suggest breaking contracts, but there's nothing wrong with breaking one as long as you give up the collateral and suffer the consequences.  If you bought a place for 400K and it is now worth 100K, get the hell out of there.  Seriously, what the hell are you doing?

There's a big difference between breaking a contract and gaming the system to try and get the home for free too.  I'm all for the first and the latter is up to the individual.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:56 | 2142642 zanez
zanez's picture

If the bank breaks the contract by screwing up chain of title or felony fraud (robosigning, etc.) they give up the collateral.

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:47 | 2142898 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

$2,000? Might cover a month or a month and a half of payments. Remember the Bush stimulus payments? (if you filed a return)

Looks familiar in a different color coat. I hear 2 fingers clapping in the wilderness. Joke.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:05 | 2142304 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ DeadFred  + 1

I'm not surprised either.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:34 | 2142093 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

this is one of the few times i've seen bove actually making sense.  moral hazard?  is this unbelievable?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:09 | 2142321 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

my opinion of Bove just rotated 180 degrees. Good for him. How do those fuck-heads on CNBC live with themselves? They are either idiots, or they know what they say in support of this bailout circle-jerk is wrong. Every time something like this mortgage bailout happens, it demoralizes the productive, responsible middle class in this country a little more.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:35 | 2142095 bullet
bullet's picture

look over in the ransquawk news...

calif ag secures 18b in mortgage settlement

24-18 = 6b for everyone else?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:36 | 2142097 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

The trampling contract law precedent was already set by the Obama administration almost three years ago in the GM bailout. This is a mere continuation of the process. Hardly surprising to anyone whos been paying attention.  

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:07 | 2142312 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Just another brick in the wall...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:36 | 2142104 Ben Burnyankme
Ben Burnyankme's picture

What's new.  Nobody is responsible for anything they do or sign.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:36 | 2142105 sbenard
sbenard's picture

The rule of law is dead. There is no more honor of contracts. We saw the first hint of this when Obama bailed out the unions at the expense of bondholders. We are now living in the post-Constitutional era. Anarchy and chaos are our destiny!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:37 | 2142118 vegas
vegas's picture

Dick,

We knew this when the Chrysler bondholders got screwed by Chalky Soetero. Maybe you can ask all the MF Global customers that got screwed by the CME. Congrats on figuring it out Dick; about fucking time you woke up to crony capitalism "Chicago" style.

 

http://vegasxau.blogspot.com

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:37 | 2142120 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

How to preclude foreclosure (forever) in a nutshell:

1. Challenge your bank to produce the original "wet-ink" signature note for a viewing in your county (perfectly within your rights).  Give them 30 days.

2. When they won't (or rather can't) produce, send them another letter telling them they have not abided by the contract and you will give them an additional 30 days to produce it.

3. When they still can't (or won't) send them another letter, telling them they've defaulted, that they have not proven that they are the note holder and therefore the rightful party to which you should be making payments and inform them that you will no longer be paying them on the note.  Tell them they have defaulted and give them 72 hours to cure the default.

4. After the 3 days has passed, send them a final letter telling them they have defaulted on their administrative remedy.

At this point, if they ever try to foreclose, you sue them (preferably in a court of record), and produce the letters (that were sent certified, etc., and you kept all the receipts) as evidence that they never produced the note when lawfully challenged.  Their foreclosure proceeding should be thrown out.  Title on the home will be clouded forever, so you won't be able to sell it (at least not with further machinations), but so what?

FREE HOUSE BITCHES!!

Of course this is extremely terse, but that is the way it works.  Read the Foreclosure Defense Handbook.  It's available for free on the interwebs.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:43 | 2142148 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Jesus Chumba, I paid my mortgage off a couple of years ago like a all American play by the rules guy.  Now, I feel like a chump, a chumpawumpa kinda guy.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:55 | 2142234 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Didn't you ever hear that rules were made to be broken?  I realized long ago that rules were psychologically imposed only to make people more predictable for the powers that be.

Of course, it takes a seed of doubt and a giant leap of faith to understand the fraud that has been perpetrated on us all.  Us, specifically, who are Americans, and Us, more generally, as the meek of Earth.

The seed of doubt can be anything.  For me, it was the second vote on the TARP bill that passed it, even after the American people said very loudly and clearly, "FUCK NO".  It was then that I realized this was a scam, and an intentional one.

And thenceforth I embarked on a personal intellectual journey, and here I am today.  Like Neo, I now "see" The Matrix.  I look into the Matrix and I see true reality.  I see slaves.  I see slave masters.  I see the circuits and routes that trick people into believing they are free, when they are anything but.

Nothing is as it seems.

Understanding the Matrix is not difficult, but coming into that understanding can be.  It depends on how willing you are to throw everything you think you hold sacred out the window and starting out with a fresh mind.  It is to demolish all your preconceived notions, sweep away the debris and dust, and then to start over from scratch, like an infant.  You must do this in order to erase the decades of conditioning that you were subjected to in order to make you believe that The Matrix was reality.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:10 | 2142330 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Actually, the title isn't clouded forever. Once you do all the work you outlined, you can then do a Quiet Title action to clear up the title.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:27 | 2142454 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

chumbawamba is correct and the Matrix analogy is a very good one.

We do live in the matrix..it hides the reality. Wake up America!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:29 | 2142464 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

So true Chumba. I wrote, called and met with my representatives to demand they not vote for TARP. All 3 of them rolled and voted YES. I wrote, called and met them and said "95% of the taxpayers in Texas do not want TARP... you sold your constituents out. I will do all I can to make sure you never get re-elected. My hope is you rot in HELL and your penis falls off. Same for Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

The Matrix is very real!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 16:27 | 2143364 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

same here Chumba, those 12 votes that were viewed as a voice of liberty turned out to just be ransom notes for additional billions

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:33 | 2142824 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

As was mentioned earlier however, you do have the benefit of transferring the title to your structure legitimately and unencumbered, that is, of course as long as you have the wet deed and it’s been properly assigned. 

It’s all a matter of the courts however, as ultimately real estate laws and possession are still at the discretion of the sovereign authority of the state.  Everything can change with the stroke of a pen.

And the pen is mightier than the sword.  Until it isn’t.

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:02 | 2142974 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

The "sovereign authority of the state" is neutered in a court of record.  In a court of record, it is your sovereign authority that carries sway.  Of course, you can't know what this means until you put the time into doing the research.

http://1215.org

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:46 | 2142175 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Sounds more a defense mechanism than a scrupulous attempt to not pay your mortgage. It really is just asking them to verify that they're the correct people to pay. Say clearly "I will pay the people who I know are the correct people I should be paying."

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2142242 spinone
spinone's picture

You don't get it. The correct person to pay no longer exists. A mortgage without a note is a nullity. The note was chopped up and made into MBS sausage. MERS is the mortgagee of record but has no standing.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:06 | 2142306 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Wrong. Certainly the note was transferred "informally" but wholly to a specific new owner.

Yes there may be technicalities to sort out but the equitable owner of the note will also become the legal owner of the note.

No "victim" of MERS has been able to subsantiate that they were foreclosed upon improperly after having paid their note as they promised ot do. 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:15 | 2142371 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Well, it really comes down to standing to foreclose, doesn't it?  It doesn't matter who comes to foreclose on you--hell, I could do it and unless you challenged me then I would get your house.  The question is: do they have standing, and can they prove it?  And most importantly: WAS THE FORECLOSING PARTY CHALLENGED TO PROVE STANDING?

The intentional obfuscation by "change" agents clouds the issue unnecessarily.  A proper legal challenge cannot be overcome.  In this case, "proper" is a loaded word.  There's more to it than just citing the law and sitting back smugly, waiting for justice (and a free house).  The judge doesn't have to follow the law, because in the courtrooms of America, the judge *is* the law.  I realize that is a provocative statement that goes against everything you might think, but it is the unfortunate truth of the matter.

Can you handle the truth?

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:32 | 2142480 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Standing to foreclose has been the most sucessfull attack on MERS to date. MERS is a straw man - a stand-in for others.

Securitization has chopped your mortgage into hundreds of tiny pieces and resold. Courts require all parties to agree and be present to foreclose. This is impossible to trace with Securitization.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:57 | 2142649 Gromit
Gromit's picture

This is a common misunderstanding of the securitization process.

The loans are wholly owned by a specific entity.

They will figure it all out, after an army of lawyers add to the cost of the process.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:10 | 2142729 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh, Yes, The Lawyers will figure it all out.  Tell me, aren't these the same guys that made the mess in the first place?

If the loans are owned by a "specific entity" then let said Specific Entity come forward and claim the right to foreclose.  If they don't, there is no foreclosure.

However, remember the ancient maxim: the law does not aid he who slumbers on his rights.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:37 | 2142827 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The "entity" claimed above is usually the mortgage servicer who has all the documents and records but no valid proof of note ownership. But they have a copy of a Note from settlement, and a "trust" (having the same street adress) as if by magic showing the Note sold to the "trust" - and a Robo Signer, who works for the Servicer signs phony documents and affidavits - knowing that the secretive and muddled securitization process has hidden the true owners and it is doubtful, if not impossible they will ever appear. So the Servicer openly commits fraud and foreclosures figuring thay can't lose - they aren't prosecuting anyone and the Servicer may get a house for nothing.

Pure evil.

It must be stopped.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:09 | 2143008 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

It can be stopped, with the right tools.  One such tool is nonstatutory abatement.

As always, Google is your friend (er, when they're not spying on you).

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:23 | 2143075 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

God's Law and the truth works everywhere that a man stands firm and holds his ground no matter the price.

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:24 | 2142416 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So, according to Gromet, then everyone should be able to deliver their mortgage payment directly to an single "owner".  By law, if that owner can not be identifed then there is no one to pay.  To try and pretend that the chain of title was not violated in bundling MBS is dishonestly typical of a paper-pushing fucknut.  Show me the note and the chain of title mother fucker.

 

Personally I have found that as all paper goes to zero, there is substantial more opportunity for people who actually know how to make things of real value and people are even more willing to trade with PMs or other real goods and services that I need.  Sounds good to me, fuck the paper-pushers, the more they devalue or violate their own law or change their story, the faster they insure the destruction of their own world.  Know the real value of your labor?  Got physical assets of real value?  You better.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:00 | 2142667 Gromit
Gromit's picture

This is the sort of argument MFGlobal "trustees" are making to their victims. Rule of law, bitchez. The CFTC say we didn't break any laws so go fly a kite.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 07:47 | 2145101 spinone
spinone's picture

Informally?  We're talking about a legal contract.  Either the note was transferred legally or it wasn't.  Technicalites? Law is technicalityies.   Equitable owner? The equitable owner of title is a term that refers to the purchaser after contract but before payment.  Not the owner of the Note.

If you want to say I'm wrong, you're going to have to do better.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 20:56 | 2143932 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

The note was chopped up and made into MBS sausage.

No it wasn't "sliced and diced among multiple buyers". 

It was sold in full to an MBS trust along with other notes, then MBS were issued on the combined assets of the trust.

Granted, a note may have been sold to multiple MBS trusts, but it wasn't just a portion of the note, it was the entire note illegally sold to multiple buyers (think rehypothecation).

MERS was formed to hide illegal sale of notes to multiple buyers, and secondarily to prevent home buyers from discovering their note was sold to an MBS trust (and which one) ...or sold over and over again to multiple MBS trusts.

If each sale had been recorded in county records the illegal sales would be obvious.  So they created MERS to be a fake note holder with private records MBS trusts had no access to, hence no MBS trust could discover the multiple sales.

But MERS paid no consideration for said notes, hence they're not a legal owner of said notes, demonstrated in many court cases where MERS was tossed out on their ear.

But now nobody legally owns the note.  The last legal seller was paid in full (several times over in many cases), and no legally valid assignment to anyone else exists.

MBS trusts were morons to pay for notes and not get a legally valid assignment recored in county records, instead letting MERS be the "holder in due course".  They were crazy for doing that.

Later the home buyer stops making payments.  Servicer decides to foreclose.  They have the mortgage document but but they don't have the note.  They go into court with just the mortgage and the judge says no way, gotta have the note too.  They can't bring in a MERS-held note because the defendant will easily prove MERS isn't a legal onwer of the note.  Like you said, MERS has no standing.

Now enters the Linda Green robosigners, churning out a fraudulent note assignment to the servicer, who isn't a legal owner of the note either since they paid nothing for the note.  The assingment isn't recorded in county records either, making it double fraudulent, and was done way after the fact, making it triple fraudulent.

That's when the foreclosure gets thrown out of court ...if the judge is an honest judge.   

Now Obama comes along with his "settlement" saying "ok judges, ya'll can let the servicer's foreclosure proceed without a legal note, we understand it sorta got lost, no biggie, just move ahead with the foreclosure based on the mortgage alone, we'll protect you".

MBS trust gets screwed, they have no legal claim to the property since they have neither note nor mortgage. 

Servicing bank takes property, a windfall for them, they paid nothing for it but now have a court order saying they own it.  They might have to give the kicked-out homeowner 2 grand ...maybe.

Oh yes, banks love Obama's "settlement".

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 09:57 | 2145428 Chump
Chump's picture

Thanks for that excellent summary.

This settlement has essentially destroyed property rights and the rule of law, all under the guise of protecting both.  We really are circling the drain at this point.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 20:21 | 2148172 spinone
spinone's picture

You forgot one important point.  The trust was securitizied, the security was DIVIDED INTO TRANCHES, and the tranches were securitized, and  issued to investors as MBS.

Do you really think that once the mortgage and the note are separated (a nullity), combined in a trust, the income asset of the trust is securitized, divided into tranches, the tranches are securitized into MBS, that the whole process can be put into reverse and made into a whole interest in the property again?

You might as well make a pig out of sausage.

Sat, 02/11/2012 - 06:08 | 2148881 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

There's nothing to "put back together".  

The trust has the note, all in one piece.  MBS are "shares" of that note,  like shares of stock in a company. 

There might be tranches, just like there can be "tranches" or different classes of stock in a company, preferred, common, etc.

It doesn't matter anyway, the trust loses out completely.  It doesn't matter how 0 is divided out, it's still 0.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:02 | 2142291 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Yes, that is in fact what you are requiring them to do: prove they are the rightful payees on your note.  It is imperative that you are paying the right entity, because years down the road, after you thought you paid off your mortgage, the guy with the original wet-ink signature note can show up and demand payment plus interest and late fees for the house you thought you owned.

It's not a defense mechanism, scrupulous or otherwise.  It is the Law.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:18 | 2142387 Gromit
Gromit's picture

It also appears to be the law that brokers can use client segregated funds to pay their trading losses.

Doesn't make it right.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:32 | 2142474 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Do you really know what is "right"?  As I just asked, can you handle the truth?

The truth is that the bank never loaned you money. You gave the bank consideration with your signature on the note, and they gave you back debt.

There was never a loan.

"Right" and "Wrong" are relative in a reality founded upon deceit.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 20:52 | 2144147 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

and they gave you back debt.

...or whatever you want to call it.

Then you proceeded to use that whatever they gave you to buy a home. 

You benefited from it, whereupon you lost your right to challenge the validity of it. 

That would be the ruling from any judge anywhere, and if I was the judge I'd rule the same way.

When you benefit from a fraud you lose your right to challenge the fraud.

That's legal precedent going back far as you care to look.

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:11 | 2144250 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

That assumes you were fully informed, which you weren't.  You did not receive anything of value, you received debt, and a tax liability, and increased the national deficit (among other things), and if you go back as far as you care to look, you'd find that any contract in which one party materially misrepresented the nature of a contract is a fraud and is null and void nunc pro tunc (from the beginning).

How would you explain someone with a $341,000 mortgage on a $140,000 house?  How are they benefitting?

You can continue to believe in the fantasy world in which you think you live, and continue to be a slave in reality.  Keep thinking the way you were trained.  It's up to you.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 04:00 | 2144926 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

you'd find that any contract in which one party materially misrepresented the nature of a contract is a fraud and is null and void nunc pro tunc (from the beginning).

Fine, if you ever get to be a county judge (which ain't gonna happen with your mindset), you can rule that way. 

Meanwhile, you can keep doing your little "sovereign what-the-fuck-ever" lawyer wanabe circlejerk with your little "sovereign what-the-fuck-ever" lawyer wanabe circlejerk friends (you dipshits never have the guts ...nor brains... to do it on your own)

...but bring those bullshit arguments into a courtroom where you're not the judge ...and there's real attorneys at the other table... and see what happens.

Hint:  It won't be pretty.

I am Chumbawamba.

Let me guess.  It means dumbass ...or moron ...or goofball ...or something like that :)

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2142239 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

You are such a douchebag CW...this doesn't work...the courts have to back you up and they won't...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:25 | 2142435 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Whether or not I'm a douchebag is yet to be properly adjudicated in the Court of Zero Hedge.

I realize that the courts will probably not back you up (as I mention above).  The problem is that virtually everyone goes into court and asks to be made whole, but the responsbility to be made whole is one's own.  Walking into an equity court and asking the judge to pretty please make the other side--the corporate paymaster of the judge--prove they can take your house results in a foregone conclusion.  It's like going to the grocer and asking for a haircut: you're in the wrong venue.

If you ever walk into a courtroom, it should be as a plaintiff or counterplaintiff in a court of record.  Only then will you be At Law, and only then will challenging the note be a proper exercise and not one of futility.

http://1215.org

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:39 | 2142532 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You are certainly a douchebag, and a sovereign citizen douchebag at that. Grifting, while decrying the same behavior by banks, is still grifting, and prisons are full of your type. It won't work, and if it did would only result in someone stealing your stolen goods. Eliminating rule of law and property right doesn't work for anyone.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:03 | 2142692 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Listen, dude, when I take a shit, it's in private, behind a closed door.  Just because you choose to do so in public does not make it acceptable.

And wipe yer ass for fuck's sake.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:09 | 2144185 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

You've had your head in the "sovereign citizen" crap too long.

Hardly anyone is gonna go to court pro-se these days (or "propia persona" for you "sovereign citizen" whachos).

Since pretty much everyone is gonna get an attorney, they lose whatever "sovereign status" they might have by having an attorney represent them.

You can't go around looking for a "court of record" to file your quiet title case in.  It's gonna go to county court, end of story.

No county judge is gonna give a rat's ass whether you view it as a court of record or not.  Your attorney won't give a rat's ass either.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:13 | 2144260 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

You have an idiot's understanding of the common law.  You really haven't the first clue.  Instead of speaking out of ignorance, why not educate yourself?

http://1215.org

Stop being an embarrassment.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 02:21 | 2144312 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Let me put it to you simply ...since you obviously have limited intelligence: 

NO court these days is gonna recognize your "common law" / "UCC" / "gold-fringed flag" / "sovereign citizen" / "sovereign individual" / "sovereign what-the-fuck-ever" nonsense.  NONE. ZERO.

In fact, you start spouting that nonsense to a judge and you might well end up in jail (for contempt).

And if I was that judge, I'd damn sure put your ass in jail ...and throw your stupid case out on its ear ...and give summary judgment to the other side.

And BTW, I studied that stuff 15 years, I know everything about it you know, and way more.

... and I can tell you confidently it won't fly these days.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 11:20 | 2145794 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

You may have masturbated incessantly for 15 years and imagined that you "studied" something, but I think the more likely scenario is that you just made that up to try to sound authoritative, when all you are is a trolling douche on the payroll of some subversive goverment crony squad.

Whatever they pay you, I hope you're buying bullets with it because you're gonna need as many as you can to try to squeeze a few more moments of living out of this existence before the raging hordes descend upon your rat hole and literally tear you physically to pieces.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 02/11/2012 - 07:05 | 2148889 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Typical redneck dumbass, you lose the argument on the merits, you know damn well none of your bullshit arguments would fly in court, you know damn well you and your bullshit arguments would be tossed out (tossed in jail more likely), so you move on to physical threats.

You're no better than government trolls here.  You have the same tactics, you have the same mindset.

They get paid for it and you don't.  That's the only difference.

You "sovereign what-the-fuck-ever" types are the first people on government lists. 

That's all I have to say about that.

Sat, 02/11/2012 - 11:59 | 2149123 chunga
chunga's picture

Hard to believe you guys are still arguing about this.

Regarding Common Law, I direct your attention to the very important ruling in the MA SJC November, 2011 in re: Bevilaqua v. Rodriguez.

This decision, which I'll leave to you to interpret, garnered national attention and is widely cited.

The Bevilaqua court went on to write...

The Bevilacqua Court, quoting the Restatement (Third) of Property (Mortgages) c. 3, Introductory Note at 97 (1996) (addressing common law applicable in both title and lien theory States).  "An equity of redemption is inseparably connected with the mortgage, Peugh v. Davis, 96 U.S. 332, 337 (1877), and endures as long as the mortgage continues in existence." [emphasis added]. 

 

You can read the decision yourself and draw your own conclusion but here's mine:

The equity of redemption is never separated from the mortgage, even when it is assigned. It is this fact and this very simple statement of law that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that mortgagors have standing to challenge assignments of their mortgage.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2142260 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Be careful what you ask for.

Sometimes I feel in the minority here but I'd like the basic structure of our economic system to stay intact.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:30 | 2142462 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Then I suggest you make damn sure that all contracts are honored and all fraud is fucking prosecuted.  How many folks have gone to jail related to financial fraud since 2008 again.  At least during the 80's S&L crisis, bankers went to fucking jail.  They changed all the laws in the 90's so they could perform a repeat "legally" and you potificate that you still like the system and wnat it to remai in tact.  Wake the fuck up idiot, for one thing, banks need to be JUST banks again.  Creating capital (paper) without adding real value has serious consequences in the real world, especially if the paper contract that arise from the creation of that capital are worthless.  Possession will become the law.

The ony politician I have ever even heard mention that prosecuting the fraud would be a good idea was Ron Paul.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:13 | 2144254 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

And Ron Paul would be completely shut down in any attempt to prosecute said fraud.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:08 | 2142314 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

I knew you were one of those sovereign citizen nuts. How's that theory working in your tax evasion case? OMG, I HAZ WROTE U A LTR. I PAY NO TAXEZ.

What a maroon.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:42 | 2142554 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Aww, Internet Mough Puy wants to squabble again.

Tax evasion only applies to those who legitimately are evading taxes.  Since I am not obligated to pay a tax on the fruits of my labor, there is no such case against me as you describe.

One cannot be "sovereign" and a "citizen" at once.  You are either one or the other.  This level of confusion amongst neophytes is understandable.

Like a tightly puckered asshole, your mind is.  If you had even a modicum of compunction to be truly free then you would inquire rather than simply vomit idiocy.  But you prefer to be a slave, and that's your prerogative, so I'm fine with that.  Just don't deign to be on the same level as me, knave.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:32 | 2142486 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Good idea but it won't work in Texas where there is no-judicial foreclosure.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:49 | 2142596 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh, yes it does.  California is also a non-judicial foreclosure state, but watch Wells Fargo try to take my house.

No judicial foreclosure means you simply have to take the initiative to challenge the process.  What I am referencing above is administrative procedure.  Done properly, it is as final as any court judgement.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2144271 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Done properly, it is as final as any court judgement.

God what a moron you are.

No it's NOT final as any court judgment.   Only a COURT ORDER is final as any court judgment.

If you can get such a court order adjudicating your "administrative procedure" and shutting down the foreclosure, good luck.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:38 | 2142124 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

This could be the match that sparks an inferno of outrage hopefully. People at some point must throw up their hands and say what is the point of playing by the rules when the rules change.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:45 | 2142163 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Are you kidding me? We don't have time for outrage here in America. We are too busy Liking Dancing with the Stars on Facebook , and other important things. We will be outraged about the things the media tells us to be outraged about. Like two gay people kissing. Now there is something we need to put a stop to.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:48 | 2142186 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

It's amazing what animals or humans choose to endure as long as their stomachs are full.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:44 | 2142563 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

100%

 Hunger only hunger changes this.  Not wet ink signatures, outrage, despair, elections or rule of law..  Only basic motivations can create the momentum to face the state and the kleptocracy.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:50 | 2142603 Chump
Chump's picture

You're half right.  Do you really think starving people are going to "face" anything but each other?  Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but there will be no glorious revolution as we descend into madness.  We'll just shred each other for Nabs.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:58 | 2142663 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I never fleshed out in any way a "glorious revolution" I am simply talking about a man standing for example in front of a T-72 or in our case M1A2 saying no..  That will not happen here that simple act of self sacrifice before the right conditions exist.  The fact that those conditions make real reistance probably futile is not lost on me.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:00 | 2142677 Chump
Chump's picture

I know, glorious revolution was my term and I wasn't applying it to you.  You're right that these things start small, however.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:39 | 2142127 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

More disgusting behaior in DC by the clown in chief and his band of renegades.  What a goddamn disgrace.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:39 | 2142131 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Does anyone remember the hysterical black lady who was interviewed after Obama got elected?  She said something to the effect, "Now I won't have to worry about my house payments, gas for my car, food for my family...!"  It seems Obama has achieved 2 out of 3.  Just need to see how he is going to deliver free gas.  

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:54 | 2142227 Mercury
Mercury's picture

EBT coverage will be expanded to cover gas and/or a "green vehicle ownership expansion" (GOVE!)  program will be born.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:14 | 2142364 taniquetil
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:18 | 2142388 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

Maybe he farts a lot.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 19:48 | 2144026 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ahh, if only someone could find the link to the hysterical white bankers & financialists, all celebrating their "win list" with each presidential election. . .

weird how that's not viral, eh.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:47 | 2142144 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Pretty much the point I just made on the last, related post......the $2000 bonus winners are almost all "home owners" that deserved to have been foreclosed on...just by a different bank.

If anyone deserves the $2000 here it's the taxpayers.....pro-rated!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:42 | 2142147 WTF2
WTF2's picture

Bove Kicks Fabers ass!!!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:43 | 2142151 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

for the 1000th time:

debt repayment is now optional in america

use credit to pay all your bills, then default

use your cash to buy AG and AU

End game is upon us folks; or do you think we can repay $60 trillion in liabilities?

we are in the "gradually" phase of the bankrutcy spiral.  Next comes "suddenly"

For all those quality people responsible enough to pay their bills, its a new world.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:14 | 2142362 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I know someone who is debt free except for their vmortgage......but they  can't get anyone to issue them  a credit card!  They were  going to use it to buy AG or AU before leaving the country.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:38 | 2142522 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

You can be debt free of the paper ponzi by personal CHOICE. Repudiate your bills. That's the message.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:48 | 2142583 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Vegas Dave, wayy too early for that, I can see miles of road to kick the can before I sleep, apologies to Frost.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:44 | 2142156 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Go Faber! Bring The securitization issue up in the next GOP debate.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:44 | 2142157 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

So help me out here.  Dick thinks the banks should:

1. pay more, or

2. pay nothing

Which is it?

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:44 | 2142159 turtle777
turtle777's picture

Time to short the Rule of Law

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:49 | 2142592 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Sorry short what?  I am not familiar with that term, is there a fund??

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 23:06 | 2142160 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:45 | 2142164 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

How long have I been saying this?  If you are underwater on your mortgage, DEFAULT NOW!!!!!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:45 | 2142165 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Those hoping for the issuer of a contract they hold to actually honour the obligations of that contract ... give up all hope.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:46 | 2142170 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

It was funny when it was noted by someone i follow on twitter that  every bank in this deal has SAME LIBAILITY so NONE STAND OUT AS CREDIT RISK. 

Looks familiar right? Not even trying to disguise this shit anymore.

MUST.PERSERVE.BANKS.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:03 | 2142172 ugmug
ugmug's picture

Let's just face the facts -

The US Government is NOW nothing more than a FINANCIAL 'SOUP KITCHEN'...........

LINE UP ALL THE DRUNKEN DEBT BUMS.... IT'S TIME FOR THEIR DAILY BAILOUT.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:46 | 2142174 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They REALLY believe $2,000 to people who had their homes foreclosed will GUARANTEE a vote for Obama? What?

Someone getting a paltry check for $2,000 today, and thinks thats great, probably wont even live until November.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:51 | 2142202 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

then there is some tax return coming next, and some sort of other rebate, and relief.  this is just so nuts.  what happened to free markets and capitalism?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:01 | 2142679 viahj
viahj's picture

so mabye they will vote for Romney instead...what's the dif?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:46 | 2142177 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

I don't know what he is worried about.  Does he really believe that many (if any) homeowners will receive a part of the settlement?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:46 | 2142178 wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

ATTENTION!!!! YOU ALL SOUND LIKE ENEMIES OF THE OBAMASTATES OF AMERIKKKA. COUNTDOWN TO A DRONE KILLING YOUR ASS IN THE NAME OF OUR FURHRER BEGINS NOW.6...5...4...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:47 | 2142180 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Nothing substantial here, just a mechanism for banks to recognize the inevitable on a portion of their loan book,

"Penalties" on banks are just theater. They will be given whatever liquidity they need.

Anyone who pays much attention to bank income statements and balance sheets is wasting their time.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:48 | 2142182 semperfi
semperfi's picture

I want free money!  I want free money!  I want free money!

-Suicidal Tendencies, circa 2000

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:48 | 2142187 The Axe
The Axe's picture

spot on Dick...and don't tell me this is stimulus....no one is getting more money...just crazy

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:59 | 2142264 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

No one? Banks certainly will.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:49 | 2142190 WTF2
WTF2's picture

  Giving a bone to deatbeats jus begets more deadbeats!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142205 Godaddy
Godaddy's picture

'Client Eastwood should do a commercial on this' the null and voiding of contract law.....

Oh wait, he already did....#GMbondholders

-the US taxpayers bailed out the banks, which are now using  the balance of said proceeds to pay a settlement which amounts to the tune of $2,000 per every person foreclosed on in the past 3 years, in order to assure their vote for Obama, while in the process trampling contact law, as no longer will anyone in America honor anything printed and signed

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142208 WTF2
WTF2's picture

The deadbeat home owners will now have a huge TAX BILL for loan forgiveness.  Does that mean the IRS will foreclose after the election?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:17 | 2142385 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Of course not!  The IRS does not go after Obama supporters...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142223 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Watch anyone dumb enough to have bought a house over the past 3 years get pissed as the banks/FHA begins dumping houses back onto the market. This was the kink in the foreclosure pipeline. Time for the next leg down in housing.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:54 | 2142230 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

Only suckers are paying their credit cards and mortgages now it seems.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:55 | 2142235 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

It's nothing more then yet another backdoor bailout to the BIG 5 CRONY BANKS. Instead of a cramdown or an outright bailout, now they will use this settlement to write down the millions of mortgages that would have put a nail in their coffin. That's right folks, the fradulent Banks that committed these crimes are now going to be rewarded instead of being charged for their crimes. The money they got in the bailout from the taxpayers is going to pay the fines, not to mention the successful auctions that have taken place allows the Primary Dealers to buy their bonds with free money and then sell them back to the FED for a big profit only months later. Isn't it amazing that the settlement only includes WELLS, CHASE, BANK OF AMERICA, ALLY, AND CITI? Seems to me that these are the same banks that have the most exposure to the derivative PONZI and the CDS exposure which would certainly never be able to be paid if another round of defaults were allowed to take place. So here we are 3 + years later and the BAILOUTS just continue to pour in. I was raised to believe that Companies that commit Fraud are shut down and people are sent to jail? You see now the America we once lived in no longer exists, It is merely just a system that is set up to protect the Criminals and the people are merely pawns used to carry out their looting. Like I said, Just another BAILOUT anyway you look at it, so now the squatters just bought themselves another 3 years of free living and the CRONIES dodged another bullet. Looks like sales of plasma TVS and Trinkets are about to shoot up and the Keynesians just kicked the can once again and will hoodwink the sheep into giving us another 4 years of this Pseudo economy.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2142259 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

So the bansters get away with blatant and obvious fraud and perjury without going to jail....idiot "homeowners" who thought they were the next Donald Trump get freebies, and honest folk that played by the rules get screwed in the rear without getting a reach around.  How many of you are going to vote? For whom? There is absolutely, positively no good person amongst our leaders. I held out a smidgen of hope that at least one AG would not get corrupted. Wishful thinking on my part, I shudda known better.  

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 17:34 | 2143613 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

I'm holding out hope that Americans Elect can deliver Ron Paul to the ballot

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:06 | 2142266 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Bove is an ass.

He doesn't know which way is up, and only has half a deck of cards but wants to play poker.

The larger point is that the banks are getting away with CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

What is the point of blabbing away about responsible versus irresponsible home owners when this is about BANKS UNDERMINING THE RULE OF LAW BY FABRICATING DOCUMENTS, SIGNATURES, AND CONTRACTS?

False flag, chase the red herring, half-witted logic from a propaganda agent for the banks.

Dick "Banker's Goebbels" Bove.

Sure, the responsible home owner and taxpayer is getting anally raped; and the government is in collusion with the banks to facilitate and sanction it.

This isn't a "settlement" or a "judgement" it is a payoff by organized crime (banks) to the supposed cops (government) to let them shake down the citizenry and perpetuate the Kleptoligarchy.

Fucking scumbags.

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:33 | 2142487 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Spot.  Fucking.  On.

Meanwhile, the corporate media will dumb this down for mass consumption in tabloid journalism fashion.  This will ensure that the politicians, playing their respective red team and blue team roles, further enrage people and pit them increasingly against each other.  Divide and conquer while the blatant looting continues.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2142267 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

dick bove has not found a moment of lucidity....the wall street hack was sent on tv to obscure the issue....the issue isn't loss of contract law....the issue is that criminals have gone scot free....nothing but an inconvenient slap on the wrist to do what they wanted to do anyway - get a few votes for obama....

looks like there is a tug of war among the rockefeller-mic-yale-cia cabal about romney vs obama....

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:59 | 2142274 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

He actually makes two very good, important points:

This is not stimulus, because these borrowers currently are not paying their mortgage.

This will cause house prices to decrease further.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:06 | 2142705 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Don't get the nexus to house prices, whose value will be determined by its yield to investors.

Especially after the MFGlobal debacle, more and more investors are buying entry level homes for cash and receving a 6% tax sheltered yield.

Eventually the Governemnt will tinker with accelerated depreciation like they did in '81 and prices will move up from there.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:01 | 2142277 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

Bove is an idiot...totally avoids the criminal impact of the fraud committed by the banks. If the banks had not chosen to bypass the the steps required to properly secure their interest in these homes they would not have been able to accumulate so many victims and the damage would have been much more manageable.

 

His childlike argument cuts both ways. Are we now to believe the banks should be excused for their bad choices.

 

Are we to regard the bankers as children that need coddling Dick?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:22 | 2142411 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Bove is an idiot...totally avoids the criminal impact of the fraud committed by the banks

Right....who is at fault - the guy who buys the Lemon Car (despite him knowing nothing about mechanic), or the guy who sells it (who knows the guy can't tell if it is a Lemon or not)?

Although his premise is solid; he doesn't address the fact that paying debt is a two way street.  Those who issue credit, should have the capital to back it up.  Banks didn't; and in their lust for fiat, gave out loans to those who, they knew, couldn't pay it back. 

Why should *I*, who actually creates VALUE for society, be at exposure to risk, when the banks aren't? 

You know how a bank can skirt risk?  BEING FUCKING RESPONSIBLE.  I have a friend who is a small business loan banker.  He crunches numbers, understands risk, and is responsible.  He knows the difference and risk between a guy who wants to run a restaurant, and one who wants to run a bong shop.  His bank gives him the power to say, "no".  ANd he has the discipline to say it, even if he knows he could work at a bigger bank (BOA) who would encourage him to make shitty loans by giving him a bonus.

Housing tranactions should not be a "Risk of Ruin" equation, like Bove wants it to be. 

Bove is working off an ideology based from the 50s and 60s where money meant something, where you got a good pay for an honest day's work, and bankers weren't continuously finger-banging your wallet (with government help).......despite median wages NOT increasing the last 5 years, 4 to 1 job applicancy ratio, inflation on food, education, oil (despite the Bernanke denying it), and a 15.1% U6 number.

There's a reason 1 out of every 2 Americans are on some form of governmental assistantance. 

The rent is too damn high. 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:29 | 2142810 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Shizzmoney, for some reason I could not vote you up, So +10 from here to you, sir.

 

Most of the early comments on Bove, and the story itself, lean toward the view that it was the 'deadbeat mortgage non-payers' getting away with breaking 'the rule of law'. 

Gimme a fucking break.

Former used car salesmen turned bank loan officers, with lots of pressure and incentive to do so, came up with the "We're gonna find a way to get you in this house" pitch, aided and abetted by appraisal agents that were more than willing to kite the value of same house; and the downsteam financial agencies waiting to buy up the mortage before the ink was dry. The bank gets a bunch of cash right now to perpetuate the scam and the loan officer gets his bonus, and the bank proceeds to the next victim; the downstream holder re-packages thwe loan along with a bunch of other doomed-to-fail mortgages and the individual paper is lateraled to MERS; the package of crappy mortgaged based debt gets passed to another 'financial institution' who tranches it and gets the slices blessed by rating agencies with the big As, and sells off the shit to a final outfit that sells shares to the retail investor with 12 to 14% dividend rates "secured by mortgage payments" -

WTF could possibly go wrong?

This was an absolute, fucking Ponzi - except that instead of one guy setting it up, the entire construction/housing/appraisel/banking/financial system was in on it; and everybody made out like, well, bandits - until they didn't.

And now a bunch of folks on this list (Note: I did *not* use the 'fucktard' word) are saying "Bad Government", 'end of rule of law', 'deadbeats get off scott free' and all the rest of the TBTF party line.

 

Get a fucking grip!

 

It was (surprise,surprise) the banks that got off here. Geezus - they were on the hook for violating 'the rule of law' a hundred thousand times over, and were saved, literally saved, by this deal. And their chief cheerleader Bove crying 'poor banks' - and nobody smells a rat? Fuck me.

 

As I type, no bank at all, much less any covered by this sweet bankster deal, is down as much as one percent, and only JPM is down more than 1/2 percent. Look at the fucking (broken) market and tell me this is a bad deal for the banks. They were faced with an absolute unknown number of billion of dollars of civil suits and individual state AG suits - now its all over and the payout is both known and a fuck of a lot less than the banks should be coughing up for violations of 'the rule of law'. 

 

I am incensed that there are so many ahem folks on this list that think the borrowers 'got off'. Most of them got foreclosed on and lost a dream - and you children of privlege think they got a good deal? They got away with something? You believe the 'poor banks' got screwed with this deal'? How dare you sneer at the 'sheeple' - you are being just as fucking dumb. The banksters have not only made out like bandits again - but have you convinced it is a payout to all those terrible people who took out loans that they could not repay.

 

Look carefully, I'm gonna put this pea under this walnut in the middle here...

 

I suggest some of you re-think what the real deal was here.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:36 | 2143078 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I humbly suggest not all people who purchased homes were sold loans they should never have had.  My credit was fine, my job stable, and my income fine.  Things change though.  Millions of people are unemployed or underemployed now.  Those who bought the homes got married, had children, and ended up with medical bills (even with insurance through their job).  Not all people walking away, getting foreclosed on, or short selling are deadbeats in other words.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:01 | 2142283 Mitch Comestein
Mitch Comestein's picture

Damm, I sold Radian too soon (Monday). 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:01 | 2142285 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Two sets of rules in this country.  Those who work at the country club, and those who play golf in it.

Curtis Sliwa and Dylan Ratigan talk about the Corzine debacle:

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2012/02/09/two-sets-of-rules-is-not-good-for-america-dylans-interview-with-curtis-sliwa/

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:03 | 2142294 areopagetica
areopagetica's picture

It's even more appalling than Bove and Santelli say.  Robo-signing is a victimless technicality.  Virtually none of the "victims" of a robo-signing foreclosure were ready and able to pay their mortgage.  If they were, they had multiple remedies for wrongful foreclosure.    The real fraudsters are the attorneys general.  Shame on any court that approves this atrocity and shame on America for letting it get this far.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:49 | 2142595 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Don't forget the homes that were foreclosed in error, either the wrong house or the wrong account. People who had paid their bills or those who even didn't have a mortgage were thrown out of their homes, their belongings strewn on streets. I guess they have no recourse as well?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 23:19 | 2144572 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Didn't you hear Dick?  That didn't happen!!!  Nope, it was just a bunch of commoners who understand finance better than the bankers and took advantage of it, plain and simple....

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:03 | 2142295 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The Banksters and the Clintons' phuckin BITCH Eric Holder. Yet another knife in the President's back a worthless back stabbing New York NoGGER! (sp?) I hope our POTUS goes all in into Syria and get his revenge on these PIGS once and for phucking all.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:22 | 2142412 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Eric Holder is the .gov equivalent of the financial world's Jon Corzine.  Two of the biggest POS's on the planet.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:26 | 2142445 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Eric Holder and Preet Bharara owe me $4500 from the Full Tilt Poker debacle.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 06:54 | 2145053 Archduke
Archduke's picture

Bring Back Elliot Spitzer. now that's an AG with cohones.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:18 | 2142303 ironmace
ironmace's picture

The comments by the anchors at the end kill me. CNBC... fucking communists

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:08 | 2142316 alpha60
alpha60's picture

what is all this crap about sanctity of contract and destruction of rule of law if the debtor gives the bank the finger and stops paying? as per the contract and the law, if the debtor stops payment, the legal owner of the note has the right to seize the asset. if the bank cannot prove its legal ownership of the note, it is not the legal owner, and therefore has no right to seize. 

if the bank, as legal owner of the note, chooses to not seize, but instead re-negotiate with the delinquent debtor, that is fully within their rights.

clearly, most americans (and many on ZH) have never actually read a contract they signed. instead, they build up some idea of what SHOULD be in the contract and hope and pray that the rest of the world will adhere to their double secret prentend terms. more unicorn shit.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:26 | 2142446 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

You must be the new guy.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:52 | 2142611 powersjq
powersjq's picture

+100

A voice of reason in a room that reeks of holier-than-thou.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:09 | 2142324 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

If you think you are outraged by this, just wait until Obama puts the screws on DeMarco and gets Fannie and Freddie to reduce principal balances.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:10 | 2142338 Stomach Full of...
Stomach Full of Xanax's picture

Squatters Rights, Bitchez ;-)

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:19 | 2142339 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

The deadbeat "homeowners" can use the $2,000 as a down payment on what they owe the IRS in taxes for all their missed mortgage payments (which is considered taxable income).

When that 1099 comes in the mail, it will be a big unpleasant surprise for most.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:12 | 2142353 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

Bankruptcy law was thrown out the window with the GM and MF Global cases I read.....what does the law mean anymore?

 

Heads I win ...tails you lose?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2142355 Perpetual Burn
Perpetual Burn's picture

DICK SLAP BITCHZ

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2142360 X86BSD
X86BSD's picture


no longer will anyone in America honor anything printed and signed.

Like the FRN! Oooo see what I did there?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2142361 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Doesn't matter. The government will intervene and violate contracts at will (or for political reasons). We ARE Venezuela!

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/25-billion-attorney-general-settlement-the-wrath-of-cordray/

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:48 | 2142589 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Snakeeyes....

You (usa}could not come close to being as great a country as Venezuela.

1) You got no Gold...

and

2) You got NO Gold...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:14 | 2142366 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

This settlement cannot possibly be the last word on this.  What happens to the trusts?  Who will make the investors whole?  Separate issue, I know, but still - there is a problem out there.  That is, if a bank refis the deadbeats, who eats the loss?  The bonds were sold with an estimated percentage of early pay-offs.  Each refi'd loan from the trust pool, reduces the value of the bonds.  Thus, if banks actively encourage refis, they would be injuring the securitized trust.  How does that not injure the big MBS investors?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:23 | 2142417 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Maybe they have to contribute to CREEP (Committee to Re-Elect the President) and then they get Bernanke Bux to make it up.

I wonder the most about the insurance industry, both health and life.  They are the very very toooooo quiet holders here. 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:15 | 2142369 Undecided
Undecided's picture

Got to love how all these financial pundents love to use the world Enlightenment in there financial commentaries as of late. 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:16 | 2142375 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Housing prices will continue to drop because of things like this.  Unless you're getting one hell of a deal, I would not buy a home right now.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:23 | 2142420 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

There going to drop anyway.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:26 | 2143087 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I welcome it too.  They were horribly inflated.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:17 | 2142378 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Fuck all this horseshit.  Its finally snowing and since I can't find work I am going outside to play!  Later.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:25 | 2142431 Kali
Kali's picture

Horseshit is right.  I am laughing cuz the Insider Trading Bill passed the House.  So what?  How are we doing prosecuting insider trading on WS?  Think they will prosecute legislators under this law? Same thing will happen as here with the robosigning.  No jail, a "fine" to bribe the prosecutors and back to abnormal.   Laws mean NOTHING anymore, unless you steal a loaf of bread to feed your kids. 

I agree, I give up.  Or as previously explained here on ZH, fuck it!  Wake me up when the nooses and guillotines come out.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:20 | 2142395 PoorMan429
PoorMan429's picture

So is it time to lever up, and take the bank for all the cash they'll give to have a meaningless right to seize a property?

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