This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Did JPMorgan Pop The Student Loan Bubble?

Tyler Durden's picture


Back in 2006, contrary to conventional wisdom, many financial professionals were well aware of the subprime bubble, and that the trajectory of home prices was unsustainable. However, because there was no way to know just when it would pop, few if any dared to bet against the herd (those who did, and did so early despite all odds, made greater than 100-1 returns). Fast forward to today, when the most comparable to subprime, cheap credit-induced bubble, is that of student loans (for extended literature on why the non-dischargeable student loan bubble will "create a generation of wage slavery" read this and much of the easily accessible literature on the topic elsewhere) which have now surpassed $1 trillion in notional. Yet oddly enough, just like in the case of the subprime bubble, so in the ongoing expansion of the credit bubble manifested in this case by student loans, we have an early warning that the party is almost over, coming from the most unexpected of sources: JPMorgan.

Recall that in October 2006, 5 months before New Century started the March 2007 collapsing dominoes that ultimately translated to the bursting of both the housing and credit bubbles several short months later, culminating with the failure of Bear, Lehman, AIG, The Reserve Fund, and the near end of capitalism 'we know it', it was JPMorgan who sounded a red alert, and proceeded to pull entirely out of the Subprime space. From Fortune, two weeks before the Lehman failure: "It was the second week of October 2006. William King, then J.P. Morgan's chief of securitized products, was vacationing in Rwanda. One evening CEO Jamie Dimon tracked him down to fire a red alert. "Billy, I really want you to watch out for subprime!" Dimon's voice crackled over King's hotel phone. "We need to sell a lot of our positions. I've seen it before. This stuff could go up in smoke!" Dimon was right (as was Goldman, but that's another story), while most of his competitors piled on into this latest ponzi scheme of epic greed, whose only resolution would be a wholesale taxpayer bailout. We all know how that chapter ended (or hasn't - after all everyone is still demanding another $1 trillion from the Fed at least to get their S&P limit up fix, and then another, and another). And now, over 5 years later, history repeats itself: JPM is officially getting out of student loans. If history serves, what happens next will not be pretty.

American Banker brings us the full story:

U.S. Bancorp (USB) is pulling out of the private student loans market and JPMorgan Chase (JPM) is sharply reducing its lending, as banking regulators step up their scrutiny of the products.


JPMorgan Chase will limit student lending to existing customers starting in July, a bank spokesman told American Banker on Friday. The bank laid off 24 employees who make sales calls to colleges as part of its decision.

The official reason:

"The private student loan market is continuing to decline, so we decided to focus on Chase customers," spokesman Thomas Kelly says.

Ah yes, focusing on customers, and providing liquidity no doubt, courtesy of Blythe Masters. Joking aside, what JPMorgan is explicitly telling us is that it can't make money lending out to the one group of the population where demand for credit money is virtually infinite (after all 46% of America's 16-24 year olds are out of a job: what else are they going to?), and furthermore, with debt being non-dischargable, this is about as safe a carry trade as any, even when faced with the prospect of bankruptcy. What JPM is implicitly saying, is that the party is over, and all private sector originators are hunkering down, in anticipation of the hammer falling. Or if they aren't, they should be.

JPM is not alone:

Minneapolis-based U.S. Bank sent a letter to participating colleges and universities saying that it would no longer be accepting student loan applications as of March 29, a spokesman told American Banker on Friday.


"We are in fact exiting the private student lending business," U.S. Bank spokesman Thomas Joyce said, adding that the bank's business was too small to be worthwhile.


"The reasoning is we're a very small player, less than 1.5% of market share," Joyce adds. "It's a very small business for the bank, and we've decided to make a strategic shift and move resources."

Which, however, is not to say that there will be no source of student loans. On Friday alone we found out that in February the US government added another $11 billion in student debt to the Federal tally, a run-rate which is now well over $10 billion a month an accelerating: a rate of change which is almost as great as the increase in Apple market cap. So who will be left picking up the pieces? Why the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, funded by none other than Ben Bernanke, and headed by the same Richard Cordray that Obama shoved into his spot over Republican protests, when taking advantage of a recessed Congress.

"What we are likely to see over the next few months is a lot of private education lenders rethinking the product, particularly if it appears that the CFPB is going to become more activist," says Kevin Petrasic, a partner with law firm Paul Hastings.


"Historically there's been a patchwork of regulation towards private student lenders," he adds. "The CFPB allows for a more uniform and consistent approach and identification of the issues. It also provides a network, effectively a data-gathering base that is going to enable the agency to get all the stories that are out there."


The CFPB recently began accepting student loan complaints on its website.


"I think there's going to be a lot of emphasis and focus … in terms of what is deemed to be fair and what is over the line with collections and marketing," Petrasic says, warning that "the challenge for the CFPB in this area is going to be trying to figure out how to set consumer protection standards without essentially eviscerating availability of the product."

And with all private players stepping out very actively, it only leaves the government, with its extensive system of 'checks and balances', to hand out loans to America's ever more destitute students, with the reckless abandon of a Wells Fargo NINJA-specialized loan officer in 2005. What will be hilarious in 2014, when taxpayers are fuming at the latest multi-trillion bailout, now that we know that $270 billion in student loans are at least 30 days delinquent which can only have one very sad ending, is that the government will have no evil banker scapegoats to blame loose lending standards on. And why would they: after all it is this administration's sworn Keynesian duty to make every student a debt slave in perpetuity, but only after they buy a lifetime supply of iPads. Then again by 2014 we will have far greater problems (and for most in the administration, it will be "someone else's problem").

For now, our advice - just do what Jamie Dimon is doing: duck and hide for cover.

Oh, and if there is a cheap student loan synthetic short out there, which has the same upside potential as the ABX did in late 2006, please advise.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 04/07/2012 - 23:36 | 2325500 eric89074
eric89074's picture

Too many Americans don't realize how much less they could go to school for if the government wouldn't subsidize studen loans.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:00 | 2325542 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

I wonder if tuition rates nationally would be far more reasonable if loans would not be so easily available.. aka a price bubble in college tuition thanks to easy loans ??

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:05 | 2325550 tmosley
tmosley's picture

On the nosy.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:16 | 2325566 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

but but is a right and should be free to all so everybody can go fuck off for four years and get a shiny paper at the end without any useful skills...i mean, liberal arts, bitchez!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:25 | 2325580 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

A few decades ago, a large percentage of the population could not read or write.  Still true in much of the world where there are no public schools.  Rand paradise.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:50 | 2325606 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If government shrinks, everything bad will happen!

Also, the last time a "large percentage" of the population was illiterate was 1920's, with "large" being defined as over 5%.  The last time it was over 10% was the 1870's.

Your anti-ideology blinds you.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:56 | 2325613 economics9698
economics9698's picture

A private two year degree can cost $50,000.  It should cost $5,000.  I paid my entire college with one student loan.  My masters was $5,000 with books at state U.  Its insane.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:26 | 2325641 Michael
Michael's picture

You can't get blood from a stone. That's a fact jack!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:40 | 2325648 Michael
Michael's picture

Tiger Woods and President Barack Obama are the same level of blackness.

When was the last recorded incidence of racism against those two?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:44 | 2325651 Michael
Michael's picture

Ask yourselves this question;

Is the white community a hindrance to the progress of the black community in this day and age?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 02:59 | 2325713 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Don't ask questions, just short SLM.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:10 | 2325773 Mary Wilbur
Mary Wilbur's picture

Jeff montanye  Thanks for the link.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:07 | 2326086 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Hmmm… Grant Williams might want to do a piece on this:

“Harvard could easily offer free tuition in perpetuity off only a fraction of the annual interest off their endowment fund.”

Of course, there is little about the US Education system that has has to do with optimal education outcomes.

It's mostly about the money and indocrrination.  

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 01:24 | 2327300 Simon Endean
Simon Endean's picture

"It's mostly about the money and indocrrination."


And a jobs program, don't forget that.  It's like mass transit, but it doesn't go anywhere. 

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:21 | 2325781 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture


Neo-Nazis are currently conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida and are "prepared" for violence in the case of a race riot.

The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says.

"We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."

Isnt it time for you and trav to do your white patriotic duty?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:41 | 2325946 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If the MSM was promoting a race war, this is exactly the kind of story you'd expect them to print.

Since they are, in fact, under orders to promote a race war this summer, expect to see a lot more stories like this. Evil whitey persecuting the black man. Subtext: you're a racist if you don't reelect the black man on the ballot.

Politics has hit a new low, thanks to the Chicago thugs running the executive branch. These guys make Nixon look like a choirboy.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:10 | 2325970 knukles
knukles's picture

Not only promoting race wars, but also the "necessity" to disarm an unruly peasantry, diminish the freedoms of speech and assembly as the peasants abuse such and see what happens when they do, increase the role of gubamint especially in the militarization of local police forces, further censor the internet as it's irresponisible to disseminate information in such a manner (get that one, reread, again), etc., etc., etc.....
Just so bloody obvious.

From Chaos, Order.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:07 | 2326035 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

That's how Stand Your Ground becomes Kill At Will. See Van Jones, etc.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:20 | 2326049 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...they keep trying.

And according to Sanford PD (as of yesterday) there are no armed neo-nazis on patrol around Sanford.

“We have no indication of any such patrols at this point in Sanford. The only large gathering was the children and their parents at the Easter egg hunt.”

The Great Easter Egg Riot of 2012!!!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:55 | 2326092 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

And Did ZeroHedge popped the gold bubble? :D

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 16:11 | 2326546 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I'm a white guy who grew up in a well known black city.  To this day I have many black friends, good people, all of them.  What fry's my ass is the the ilk of those black folks who create a crisis out of the Trayvon Martin tragedy without knowing the facts.  It's sad enough when ANY young person dies,but when that tragedy is used as fodder for political gain it backfires, and instead, it actually fans the flames of racism. What I worry about is the very poeple who scream the loudest will create huge problems for everyone else.  Someone needs to stand up to the charlatains that call good paople racists.  While I don't condone any racial separitist organization, whether it's theNew Black Panthers or a White Supremist organization, Iread an article about a white supremist group that went to Sanford, FL to 'patrol'.  The leader said something ver interesting and should raise the hair on all of our spines...he said that if anyone in his group had put out a bounty like the New Black Panthers, they would have been in jail that same night.  Why is this?  Why have no New Black Panthers been arrested?  Aren't we all equal under the law? What are Obama and Holder thinking?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 03:28 | 2325735 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

"Rand paradise" So true, so true and those folks end up working for a boss who will not let them unionize, sound familiar?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:04 | 2326032 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Bullshit. The union of illiterates is the Democrat Party.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:00 | 2326096 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Did I forget the SARC tag for you guys again??  Eat rand runs a non union shop but preaches the benefits of unions every chance she gets....

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:48 | 2325953 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When was the last recorded incidence of racism against those two?

The whole presidency of Obama is a testimony of racism as a central core of US citizenism.

Probably the US of A US citizen president with the least personal power.

Had to apologize to a cop for a petty comment.

In the meantime, his predecessor could yell two inches close in the face of a marine for no reason than relaxing.


Obama is your typical US citizen president. Just like the others, he has been abusing institutional power.

But when it comes to personal power, that is a totally different story.

Maybe putting more negroes in the seat could diminish endemic US citizen abuses of power. The function of institutional power is preserved but the private power is lessened.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:51 | 2326087 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Meanwhile, everything's just swell in the glorious People's Republic of China!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:10 | 2326199 knukles
knukles's picture

Er.... Last time I looked, weren't no Negroes in power in China....
Lot of 'em in power in Africa.
Lot of Arabs in power in Arabia.
Lot of Latinos in power in Latin America.
Lot a Penguins in power in Antartica

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 01:30 | 2327304 Simon Endean
Simon Endean's picture

"Lot a Penguins in power in Antartica"


Yeah, the seals and killer whale gangs need to stop killing each other and fight the power!

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 11:49 | 2328145 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Wow. You actually read AnAnonymous' claptrap? "US citizenism is to blame for all the world's evils!" - There, you don't need to read his posts anymore...

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:20 | 2326044 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:24 | 2326054 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

mikey, u b talkin' to u self

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:26 | 2326126 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

my dad loves tiger and obama

i sense he wishes he were black

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:47 | 2325657 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

I love how ppl blame gov't.

Last I checked, JPM ain't a fucking gov't entity.

You can thank the bank lobbies for getting student loans to be unforgivable.

Do you think JPM or other sharks would be in the biz if 18 year old kids could default?

It's not Keynes, it's the banksters that manipulate gov't.

Yeah, you're wrong, we can blame banks.

Oh they also made credit card debt unforgivable. I guess that was socialism too and not crony capitalism.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 02:12 | 2325675 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

JP Morgue is a ward of the state, fuckface.


Lol.  And crony capitalism isn't socialism. Go shit on a sidewalk, douchebagger.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:04 | 2325772 malikai
malikai's picture

Oh, and if there is a cheap student loan synthetic short out there, which has the same upside potential as the ABX did in late 2006, please advise.

How about APOL? Sounds as good a proxy as any to me. Of course, it looks like that train left the station back in January.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:07 | 2325905 Straying from t...
Straying from the flock's picture

Well said.  JP Morgan and HSBC are both complicit in the fleecing of the republic's wealth.  But it is okay, they are doing it on behalf of their customers.

It is the normalcy bias that keeps us from standing up for ourselves.  Separate yourself from the herd.  Soon there will be a new paradigm and those not aware will be fodder for the masses.  People do many odd things when you take away their future.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:13 | 2325975 knukles
knukles's picture

JPM and HSBC are two of the larger LBMA members....

Circles within circles...

Go figure

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:27 | 2325931 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture


JP Morgue is a ward of the state, fuckface.



The state is a ward of JP Morgue


Fixed it for you


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:16 | 2326293 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

truth = no nationstates, just the banking class, re-inventing "realities" as they go. . .


"what's in yer wallet"

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 15:02 | 2326455 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Yes. That's why exactly zero policies effectively change when government changes except bullshit wedge issues related to religion and race that get people screaming at each other while they are being robbed.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 16:10 | 2326540 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

The implied universalism of the "robbery" mentioned in your comment would ring true if there were not for massive inter-racial transfers of wealth occurring through group differentials in the extent of the robbery, and the concomitant need of one race to protect itself from another.

Group resource competion is an inevitable reality of life, and the best mechanisms for civilizing such competitons are homogeneous nations that can negotiate with each other most of the time on a rational basis.

In "multi-cultural" societies the inevitable resource competion between groups always escalates and is a profoundly destabilizing mechanism. Only in times of increasing prosperity is such a society attain a tenuous and fragile inter group peace.

All else is a lie.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 20:22 | 2326871 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Mod parent up!  Gheez am I ever tired of the red vs blue game - all, and only, about what I can do in bed or at the doctor, as if all the other problems were solved.  Bob has it right here.  Don't drink the kool ade - both colors are poisoned.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 06:25 | 2325834 barroter
barroter's picture

Agreed.  Only those with enough $$$ can afford well connected lobbyists to plead their wishes for changes in law, regulations for their clients.  I am sure PRIVATE business had a hand in demanding that student loans couldn't be discharged in court.  It wasn't ONLY the gov't. that created this.

Business..isn't some innocent bystander when it comes to this monumental thievery and fraud. 

I wish I would hear libertarians SCREAM for the end of business tyranny once in a while.  But you barely hear a peep from them about it.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:42 | 2325945 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Business tyranny is the result of governmant and the police power of the state. The elimination of government, the protection of private property and market based economics will resolve this- a truly libertarian position. Perhaps if you actually studied the concepts, it would help.

However, as libertarianism has been hijacked by the Republicans, please see anarcho- capitalism or voluntaryism.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:48 | 2325952 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Never forget that corporations are, legally speaking, creatures of the state.

You don't see many sole proprietorships hiring lobbyists, do you?

What would happen if we returned to the kind of crippling limitations that corporations were legally subjected to as recently as the 1850s?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 15:11 | 2326465 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Smith himself implied he was worried what would happen if corporations were given rights as they have today. When you do the equivalent of a Turing test on a corporation (watch its behaviour without knowing if it is a person or a machine) you see that it behaves exactly as it is legally obliged to behave: like psychopath with the single priorty of increasing shareholder value.

As a means of collectively pooling money to fund economic activity, it works pretty well and the fudiciary duties are supposed to protect people from getting ripped off. The problem is when we allow them to influence government, who should have the single goal of protecting the rights of the citizens.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 20:57 | 2326937 barroter
barroter's picture

Anarcho-capitalism...THERE I agree with you on that!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:01 | 2325900 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Banks are manipulated by government , by bailouts and regulation. It's called corporatism, look it up.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:50 | 2326182 TMT
TMT's picture

Hey dumb dick who lets the bankers do what they want? THE GOVERNMENT. They write the laws.

Your slobbering love for the government is quite sad.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 17:01 | 2326592 deepthoughtless
deepthoughtless's picture

So what you're saying is that if no one stops your criminal behavior, it's the fault of the people who didn't stop you, and not YOUR fault for being criminal to begin with? It's statements like that that have every little common sense idea and behavior legislated to minutiae. Someone screwed a bunch of people because the government didn't say they couldn't? Damn government! Now we've got a new law so no one ever has the chance to do that again. YOU feed big government by defending irresponsibility and greed. Your slobbering love for the corporations is quite sad.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:49 | 2326239 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

But the thing is, if you loan money to people with no assets and no credit (young students) and it's dischargeable in bankruptcy why wouldn't every one of the go bankrupt upon graduation? There would be no student loans.


Credit cards are another matter. That was corruption, like the copyright extention.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:48 | 2326079 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Actually, I think it's a safe bet that over 10% of the population is illiterate NOW...

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:18 | 2326297 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

They are literate muppets.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:06 | 2325624 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The merger between the United States and Communist China is disturbing, especially since it will continue and reinforce the use in our schools of the Pavlov method (imported from Soviet Union) aka Direct Instruction, Mastery Learning, Outcomes/Performance/Results-based Education. This method is necessary for global work force training (school-to-work) and brainwashing for a politically correct society. 


 Charlotte Iserbyt


Google her, watch her on youtube and wince.




Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:23 | 2325639 i-dog
i-dog's picture

For futher background on the engineered decline in education quality (vs. quantity), some reading of John Taylor Gatto is also instructive.

One should also look into Anthony Sutton's "America's Secret Establishment" and the pervasive activities of 3 founding members of Yale's Skull & Bones Society (after they returned from post-grad studies together in 'Hegelian' Germany).

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 02:36 | 2325694 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

JTG is also a must hear/read. As is Anthony Sutton.

And Bill Cooper.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:50 | 2326083 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

Bill Cooper FTW.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:42 | 2325880 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Oh regional Indian

Dude you are obviously intelligent.

Why do you assume malevolence is involved with every action.

People choose to perceive what they want, Blind men and Elephant you know.

I understand that dark conspiracy sells, it does tittilate to think we are Frodo carrying the ring and conquering evil.

But that's the hook, the selling point.

The problem I have with conspiracy theories is everyone assumes a universal constant, one group to rule them all.

The reality is more like a bunch of selfinterested people trying to gain advantage over another bunch of selfinterested people.

Many small conspiracies working at crosspurposes. At some point they cancel each other out.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:51 | 2325956 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Sure, because the Elites have never considered the benefits of working together on a common goal. They have no understanding of monopoly, whether in business or in government of the masses. This is the problem with people dangerous enough to use the term "conspiracy theory". 

A conspiracy requires collusion, I'm sure all those Bilderberger, Club of Rome, CFR, etc meetings are competitive slugfests. The theory remains until it is proven- more difficult, but as the case of 9/11 shows, not impossible (while we don't know all the particulars, the action has been exposed).

Of course, by using the idea that competition exists and exists amongst the Elites, you help to blind people. Trolling, trolololololololo.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:01 | 2325962 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Isnt it the definition of a class? People sharing the same best interests?

Of course, there is competition between the elite. Rivalry is the kind of opposition that is majoritarly represented in US citizenism, the other kind of opposition, well, they were destroyed by US citizenism push for conformity and uniformity.

The mattering point: in US citizen societies, the middle class is the King class.

What is done is to preserve the middle class.

But the US citizen elite is no wizard, when an impossibility arises, and maintaining or improving US citizen entitlements is impossible due to lack of resources, despite slackling most of the world to achieve US citizen middle class entitlements.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:25 | 2326050 Marco
Marco's picture

Except since the 70s the middle class has only been allowed to continue to exist by going deeper in debt ... part of this was driven by the trade deficit of course (and this can only be corrected by austerity) but a large part was also drive by the increase in wealth concentration with the top <1% (which can only be corrected by taxes).

If the middle class was the king class then why has the upper class gained land and capital ownership when the "king" class only gets commodity goods? Kings own land, not just shiny things.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:35 | 2326325 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

if "the middle class" chooses to continue chasing the status they believe is theirs, with all the flashy accoutrements they are prone to acquire as "impressive" to others also seeking recognition, then they are missing the facts - the "middle class" is the tool used by the "upper classes" as incentive for the "lower classes" to aspire to. . .that the middlers continue to believe their benefits are solely through their own "hard work" and not through a favourable environment to grow their status-wealth, for later harvesting, is the part folks rarely see.

and it is the "middle class" pockets that always get picked as the process gets wound down, rinse repeat.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 02:02 | 2327315 Marco
Marco's picture

I disagree in your choice of cycle ... in my opinion the cycle we are repeating is leading us back to feudalism.

Except this time some of the forces which got us out the last time have disappeared ... the potential for growth and the value of labour in making that growth possible. Even if technology manages to rekindle the potential for growth, globalisation and automation will see to it there won't be much of an increase in the value of labour.

Very soon the only true value remaining to most people will be their ability to vote for government ...

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 16:18 | 2326552 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

"Why do you assume malevolence is involved with every action."

In both criminal an tort law people are presumed to intend the ordinary and necessary consequences of their actions.

So why should we not assume the same of globalists who are aware that their careers are lowering the living standards of most Americans to Chinese levels?

How can we reasonably avoid the conclusion that those at the upper levels of management in the financial industry and multinational corporations do not intend to harm their fellow citizens, and with respect to their fellow citizens (for whom they feel no responsibility whatever) their actions are indeed malevolent?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:32 | 2326059 Neo1
Neo1's picture

The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:14 | 2325631 sid farkas
sid farkas's picture

Now we waste money paying people who don't want to teach to educate people who don't want to learn. After learning to read and write at great expense most people never bother to do it again, makes perfect sense. Marx paradise.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:36 | 2325790 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Not saying public education is bad but it should be a right to go and a privilege to stay.  The entitlement mentality has gotten to the point where we expect everything and respect nothing.  The teacher's union, along with all government unions, needs to be dismantled and we need to determine a method(s) to rid the system of students that don't care.  I think a combination of a standardized test (in English) and a review board that evaluates character and effort would suffice.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:50 | 2325955 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You won't say it? OK I will: public education is IRREDEEMABLY AWFUL.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:40 | 2326010 KickIce
KickIce's picture

I would agree that it is beyond repair but at this point the entire system is so corrupt you could probably extend that every department in the government; housing, food and drug, auto, healthcare, military....

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:42 | 2326167 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture



"if you want to get laid go to college, if you want an education go to the library".  (FZ)

Today colleges provide a sheeple education, for the most part, certainly very little critical thinking.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:54 | 2326353 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

since most are in general agreement that K-12 schooling is mainly a babysitter for parents, combined with training in how to be a good citizen-worker bee, then it shouldn't be much of a stretch to note that paid schooling (college/uni/etc.) is an extension of the same principles, with the fabulous benefits to the system of being a cash cow for banks, until now. . . now they'll park their "losses" back in the government garage.

look at how they manage their nationstate assets. . . canny bankers, hmm.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 17:08 | 2326600 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Exactly, and I smell another bailout as government can't afford for any of these huge bubbles they have created to burst.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:40 | 2325879 nickt1y
nickt1y's picture

And the differenc now? Oh yeah they get to graduate from high school.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:58 | 2325898 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

You are clueless, public schools suck everywhere. And that's while losing money instead of making profit.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:24 | 2325985 buckethead
buckethead's picture

I like much of what you have to say, but all too often the good old fashioned non-sequiter sneaks by your self editing program. (GLITCHEZ!)

Any who consider the words and thoughts of Rands fictional writings as absolute truths are delusional. Likewise for those who would deny any principles she might have espoused.


Rand makes some points. She also makes some fallacious arguements. Much like an economist does.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:20 | 2326118 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

LetThemEatRand                    2325580

A few decades ago, a large percentage of the population could not read or write.  Still true in much of the world where there are no public schools.  Rand paradise.



Your statement is comparing apples to oranges and makes no sense in regards to the article. The article is about higher education, college if I need to be specific to you. Public schools where a child learns basics of reading, writing and math are not higher education. Thus your comparison is irrelevant and makes no sense. In addition to that, while the Fed gov likes to stick it's nose in, public schools of elementary, middle and high school are generally controlled at the state level with the state's governor and lower more involved depending how the state has it set up and more often then not, those public schools are funded through local property taxes.


Thus your overall comment looks dumb.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 14:00 | 2326365 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Public schools where a child learns basics of reading, writing and math are not higher education.

and pledging allegiance, every morning, hand on heart.  don't forget one of the most important parts of mandatory schooling.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:30 | 2326206 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

A few decades ago, a large percentage of the population could not read or write.  Still true in much of the world where there are no public schools.

Depends on what you mean by reading and writing. Fully one third of high schoolers drop out. Can they read and write?

Also, things are evolving quite dramatically unless you haven't noticed. Will reading and writing be all that necessary? It is for the truly academic, but is the majority of the population really that bent toward being academic?

Many many kids get those school loans and drop out. It's a racket. And are those that do get a degree qualified to do anything we really need? How many can cook, grow food, build a shelter, sew? Build a fire for that matter?

The money is so out of whack. It is representative of society being drastically imbalanced.

The leaders are low lifes and are in power because they exploited an honor system. How to fix things? It all begins with you. Get your life straight, honorable, true. It grows inward and outward exponentially.



Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:23 | 2326308 aerojet
aerojet's picture

As someone who both taught college courses and now as a worker in private industry, I can tell you that many Americans are only barely literate.  The grammatical errors I find in company documents and emails are amazing!  It's all because we don't value literacy, we just take it for granted.  Worse still is how people treat mathematics--it is actually acceptale to be innumerate in the US.  I think that is why we have such a large student loan debt problem to begin with.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 14:06 | 2326375 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

agreed, and it's an important distinction - training people to be a citizen workforce in mandatory K-12 does not equal literacy. . . one can teach themselves to be literate via reading.

of course, now that books are becoming "obsolete" literacy will continue to devolve.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 14:31 | 2326419 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Huh?  In the Massachusetts after the civil war less than 1% of the population was illiterate.  Public school was forced on them by gunpoint with a standing army.  Your better off teaching yourself if that is the choice.  Foreigners came here to be Americans because of personal liberty.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 17:41 | 2326632 brettd
brettd's picture

Don't conflate "The world" with the USA.

USA spends on "education" like no other country and yet is ranked

25th in empirical, international math/science testing.

Pure fail.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 18:18 | 2326687 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

hear hear.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:25 | 2325581 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Too many dumb-asses getting dumb-ass degrees in dumb-ass courses under dumb-ass loan programs.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:48 | 2325658 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

A genuinely challenging degree requires an IQ substantially above 100, say in the 110-115 range (as well as application to your studies).

Somehow the unavoidable reality that half the population has an IQ below 100, and about 70% are below 110, has totally escaped left-wing politicians who think everyone should somehow have a degree, and they'll legislate it if necessary.

Next up: legislating that everyone will be tall, beautiful and happy - and the legislators will be taller, more beautiful and happier than anyone else.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:29 | 2325783 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Not if Melissa Moon Gompers has anything to say about it!

"Welcome to the Monkey House"

One of the more memorable stories found in these pages are "Harrison Bergeron."  In this story, we find the type of society that I fear the most, a socialist republic where all people are required to be equal; those who possess intelligence and pose the danger of actually thinking are controlled by implants which forcefully disallow any thought from entering their minds.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:39 | 2326013 XitSam
XitSam's picture

As I recall, Anthem, by Ayn Rand has a similar everyone must be equal theme.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:26 | 2325989 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Most of the shitheads that consitstently create financial catastrophe's because of their greed and evil minds have IQ's well above 100.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 14:07 | 2326379 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ahhh, but they're admired, they make money.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 08:59 | 2327616 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The problem all comes back to unemployment.

Corporations have made getting a degree a must have for "well paying jobs" (sic).   

The government, who is basically a corporate lackey, institutes programs (built by bankers) to make this happen through loans.  The banks also get into the loan game because of this high new demand.

The problem?  The hidden secret that a degree doesn't mean you will get instantly hired, nor does it means you'll get a job that will pay back that student loan from either side.  Never mind the fact that what college has really boiled down to, for most majors, is just "buying" a degree...not actually earning it.  So what you get is a bunch of opulent kids who had their school paid for by mommy and daddy who didn't really earn their degree; I know of a major college in Boston who, if you got kicked out, would let you back in if you made enough in donation (as happened to an uber-rich kid I knew of).

I mean, how many smart people filled with guile are making it in today's society w/o a degree?  And is it right to hold an economic gun to low-to-middle income people's head that you MUST take on this debt, even if you think you can make it without a degree, just in order to get a paycheck (that doesn't keep up with inflation) every 2 weeks.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:57 | 2325664 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Why can't we have a proper apprentice program like other countries (Germany, Norway, Australia, Canada etc etc). Three out of four jobs we produce do NOT require a college degree. Double the minimum wage and have some real apprenticeship incentives, problem solved.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:31 | 2325786 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Liberal/Progressive Socialists don't want to get dirt/oil under their fingernails.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:38 | 2325792 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Yeah, just what we need. More programs.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 05:15 | 2325810 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

Raising the minimum wage would devastate employment. You set a price floor above equilibrium, you get a surplus (unemployment). You double a price floor already above equilibrium, people starve to death. 

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:34 | 2326064 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Not to mention that a wage price spiral is just what is needed to set off the dry tinder for an epic currency fire. "Double the minimum wage" sounds like the idiotic ravings of a lunatic who plays an economist in the pages of the NYT.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:03 | 2326266 beenburnedtwice
beenburnedtwice's picture

But please, abolish minimum wage; one step to fiscal sanity.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 17:57 | 2326657 brettd
brettd's picture

What the hell does minimum wage have to do with a trade or performing any task?

I got paid 40.00/hour as a painter.

Tile guys made 50/hour.

Plumbers 40-60 hour.  That's at least 2000.00 a week on a 40 hour week! 

Willing to Work weekends?  Make even more!

Increase minimujm wage my ass.  Fastest way to get on any crew of any type is stay to the foreman:  I'll give you a day don't 

like what I deliver, I'll walk away.  Never once was refused a slot. Never failed to get hired and/or referred.

Apprectice?  spend Saturday mornings for a year on You Tube, studying your craft of interest, and you'll get more education for free than that $200,000 paper from University of X.

buckle up kids.  We're going to have to start being American again.

It ain't fair, and it ain't easy , but we will be successful.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:45 | 2325887 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Mike Rowe made the same point in a 2009 TED talk.

You need to watch it all the way through.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:36 | 2326009 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

Thanks! This video made my morning!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:54 | 2326091 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

You mean ELIMINATE the Minimum wage to create more jobs, don't you? I fixed it for you...

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 01:54 | 2325662 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

So you prefer an uneducated citizenry?

What is your angle, other than anger that someone else may get something?

Most logical people make the connection between society benefitting and educating it's people.

I really don't understand this macho shithead position, were you people beaten as children?

Education and health care should be free. It should be more efficient, but free.

It's difficult understanding the blaring idiocy of right wing culture.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 02:37 | 2325697 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Actually Battery, sad thing is that education today is pure programming, not learning.

In goes Diversity, out comes University.



Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:47 | 2326000 Devout Republican
Devout Republican's picture

How about this slap in the face.  I paid for my boy's way through college and he sends me this garbage...



Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and fresh because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards.

With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. 

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girlie-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards.

Joe's employer pays the same standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joeis hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noon and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below- market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by the Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big- government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father has Medicare, lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine- drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:59 | 2326095 TDoS
TDoS's picture

Meanwhile earthworms, fungi, honeybees, and phytoplankton make sure we all have food to eat and air to breathe.  Humans are the ultimate parasite.  Our industrial greatness wipes out two hundred species every day, while ideologies war over words to which they don't even agree on the defintions. 

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:39 | 2326158 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Joe gets up in the morning and fills his coffee pot with water that has been treated with toxic chlorine and flouride- promising he and his progeny will lose a percentage of their IQ forever, thanks to some liberal.

He goes to the table and takes his medications, paid for at exorbitant costs because the pharma lobby paid their liberal politicians to back a monopoly and convinced doctors to forego healing for the much easier regulation of disease through drugs.

He prepares his morning breakfast of bacon and eggs, of such poor quality that the eggs are pale yellow and break in the pan, while the bacon is a festering composition of chemicals and antibiotics his government friends decided were necessary to create more cancers and protect the largest meat packers.

In the shower, he reaches for his shampoo, a collection of chemicals, suspended in soap at high price to justify the labeling requirements. Thankfully, the soap corrodes the BPA in the platic of the bottles and shrivels his dick, insuring his need for viagra, et al in the future.

He walks outside and takes a deep breath of the polluted air and acid rain that fills his sky, thankful that some of the pollution has been eliminated at great cost in regulation, yet ignorant of the chemtrails being released to further shorten his lifespan.

He walks to the subway and gets on the train, happy with the subsidized transportation, to ignorant from a shoddy education from the government to realize that all goods and services have a cost and that cost must be paid by someone, never making the connection between his 50% contribution of his salary to the State. His excellent pay, being a result of currency inflation and the ability to export huge sums of the government's spending via a reserve currency, makes him thankful for the unions that work so hard at creating unemployment for others and helping to price his labor which may land him in the street- unemployed.

At noon, Joe will make a deposit into a bank and know his money is protected by the FDIC, an institution that is broke and existing on fumes, desperate to conceal the bank run that remains in progress for the benefit of the largest 6 banks that will further cement their controlling market position. 

Joe has to pay his mortgage and student loans because of some nameless liberal who wanted him more productive so he could pay larger amounts of debt in his lifetime. He has failed to read about the trillion dollar student loan issue or the hundreds of billions spent on Fannie and Freddie for his underwater loan spent because they suspended the market and gave unrealistic values to homes so they could collect magnificent fees.

Joe decideds to visit his father in the country. He has a small farm, but has struggled to sell crops because of regulation, GMO elimination of seed stocks and other USDA regulation. Thank god he has electricity! His SS and Medicare allow him to live in the lap of luxury, having stolen his labor for his entire lifetime- money he could have invested himself, but was told the government knew better. 

Joe gets in his car and returns home. It matters not what he listens to on the radio, because he is too ignorant of the fascism that has captured governments the world over. He is told he has liberty and so he must have it. He is too stupid to learn the meaning of the word, thank god Faux news exists to tell him what it means.



Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:57 | 2326255 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Nice Sean

I like this statement, "never making the connection between his 50% contribution of his salary to the State" I tell everyone that they're being robbed blind. Not even one has a clue.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 16:15 | 2326549 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Seriously--the costs of public transit are hidden by taxes that everyone pays.  While some of that may be acceptable, we have so much of it nowadays that it is hard to tell what is good and what isn't.  All of it could be privatized with a little work.  And by "privatized" I don't mean sold to rich people like the Kochs in some inside deal that ensures decades of profits for them. 

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:20 | 2326302 Jena
Jena's picture

I am Joe, a humanoid-like drone who believes all the shit the liberal TAs (who worshipped the liberal professors they worked for) at the liberal college I went to force-fed me, because it was easier to choose their Utopian Progressive vision of an orderly society in which someone or some committee makes the rules for the masses who are too dumb or wrong-headed (evil!) to choose the right things for themselves and society.  I tend to speak in slogans rather than arguments because I mostly memorized talking points.

I chose this route rather than developing critical independant thinking skills that would reveal the cognitive dissonance of this life to be so severe that it'd break my mind if I ever saw it clearly.  That is, that Dad is pretty much right about everything.  But if I'm like most kids, it'll start to dawn on me when I start paying serious bills -- especially taxes.  In another 20 years.  

Around that time, Dad will start to seem pretty damn smart.  And I'll have my own liberal little shit to deal with.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2326175 arby63
arby63's picture

That's a load of crap. Tell your son that if "Joe" had any independent thought he wouldn't need to be protected from the world. Joe is a functional idiot and doesn't mind losing every ounce of freedom a lot of other "Joe's" fought for in more ways than one.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:53 | 2326244 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I got a chuckle out of the line "His medications are safe to take". Has your son ever read the list of possible side effects that accompany most prescription medicines these days? So many of the ones that have not been banned carry warnings that make one wonder. Indeed, many of the possible side effects sound worse than the 'diseases' they are supposed to cure, such as the anti-depression medicine that warns it may increase thoughts of suicide. While I agree that suicide will put an end to depression, it's an extreme example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. There is probably some ED medicine with a warning that it "may cause your nuts to fall off". Or how about all those TV advertisements by legal firms looking for victims for class action lawsuits against drugs that were themselves advertised only months or a few years earlier?

As indicated by another post, the FDA now serves Big Pharma, not the public. Just like the big financial institutions and the big unions: government is in a symbiotic relationship with Big BusinessBig Labor and a parasitic one with We the People.

Joe - and the son who apparently thought this was a valid defense of liberalism - both belong in the Matrix.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 14:23 | 2326403 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

great points GG, people need to make the connection between Big Pharma & Daddy Gov (who are both in place for Big Bank Oligarchs), and their deteriorating "health" through trusting either entity.

as to Devout Republican (descriptive name) & his "liberal" son - sounds like a classic middle-finger salute to an overbearing dad from a rebellious son, same as it ever was.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 12:33 | 2326216 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

education today is pure programming, not learning


DING Ding Ding...we have a winner.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 03:32 | 2325740 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Your left wing brain apparently failed basic econ.. Free indeed, seems to be working for the Euro's..  Playing chess with a lefty is like playing with a pigeon, you can kick their ass but they'll just knock the pieces over and strut around like they won..  Ohh and call you a racist..

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 03:48 | 2325743 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



What's my angle?  No angle.  We need more blue-collar tradesmen and less dumb-asses thinking they're the next JP Morgan who can't even add, subtract, multiply, divide, spell, put together a coherent sentence, or know when to shit or wind their watch.

Oh.   Wait.  I do have an angle.   We also need true educating in lieu of PC politicating every phucking relevant topic important to advancing humankind toward a better place rather than foistering greedy, apathetic,  unoriginal-thinking smugly PC I got mine networked douchebaganites.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 04:34 | 2325787 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Gasp!  Could it be that virtually NO ONE grasps the utility of Underwater Basketweaving?

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 05:20 | 2325812 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hah! The one course I regretted not taking in B School was Ghanian Drumming. They only allowed it for credit and I didn't have time or money to waste. 


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:56 | 2326025 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Ah, the sad story of how Joe the Puppeteer quit his paying job to pursue his dream of a Master of Fine Arts in Puppetry. So he did what any unemployed puppeteer would do: helped create the Puppet Guild of Occupy Wall Street. Because demanding living wage jobs for the foolish is social justice.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 06:33 | 2325837 barroter
barroter's picture

An educated public.  The LAST thing business and the elites want is a population that can think critically.  If you can think critically, sales pitches and general bullshit has no place to enter your life and you WIN, they LOSE.  You probably also get to retain heaps of $$$ for being able to spot BS a mile away as well. 

I once heard a sales manager lament these kind of people to sell to, scientists.  He claimed they had an annoying habit of analyzing everything. Sorry, no fat commission for you, you lying f*ck.

I am sure those who are hom skoold tend to be far easier to BS.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:21 | 2325981 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Home schooled kids are typically 3-4 years ahead of their public-schooled peers. Quit talking out of your ass.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:03 | 2326265 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I have seen tests for grade school and high school students from approximately 1900. Most college grads these days couldn't come close to passing them (nore could I, schooled 60 years later). The populace in America pre-Revolution was also highly literate, as witnessed by the many political pamphlets that circulated then. Of course, students in prior generations were not burdened by having to learn all the useless garbage heaped upon students today. They were, however, assessed realistically, because teachers were not there to help the students' self-esteem.

Today's students are burdened with too much trivia, making many of them sophomores in the original sense of the word.

Mon, 04/09/2012 - 00:53 | 2327281 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

How many home schooled kids do you know? I suspect the honest answer is 0.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:52 | 2325893 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Dude, the majority of posters here are "uneducated".

Sure they can read and write and may even have graduated high school or college.

But their education ends at self interest.

I would say 99.7 % of posters are dumb fucks who can not comprehend how anything but taxes impact their own lives.

I would say that stat holds true for the majority of the worlds populace.

But the important thing to remember, is these people who bitch here are complaing about people who are actually intelligent enough to work the system.

The complaints are really about jealousy. Jealousy of people who actually applied themselves to profit and excell.

Not one of the idiot fucks you see bitching and moaning really cares about bettering the world, about actually raising standards, all they care about is personal greed.

You are either intelligent enough to make the system work for you or you spend your time complaining about how it doesn't.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:02 | 2325960 knowless
knowless's picture

I think you're right to an extent.


My own problem with "working the system" comes from my inability to overcome my aversion to causing pain to others by me applying my intelligence to better my own life.

I used to care about bettering the world, but it seems that all I can do at this point is try to "get mine". Society forces me to pick sides in battles I don't want to fight, or die.


I remember thinking to myself; If I take a job then someone with a family loses one, why should I deserve that over him? I eventually had to get over my care for my fellow man in the name of my own self interest, my application of my skill to my work has most definately cost families their income.


maybe retool your rhetoric some?


what is "the system"?

do you mean the government? the banks? society in general?

I'm a highschool dropout, I didn't finish freshman year.


as I understand "the system" currently it is:

self aware creatures fighting for resources based on biological urge, set into patterns of action by structures of control.

who can supposedly directly apply standards to those patterns and structures which they as a species have developed over millenia.

the standards placed should have some semblance of either "justice" or "law"(maybe no longer synonomous), one which is "fair" to all involved.

otherwise there will be conflict.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:03 | 2325964 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The systemics have a name: US citizenism.

US citizenism is the system.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:08 | 2325969 knowless
knowless's picture


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:14 | 2325971 knowless
knowless's picture

self trolling bro, don't bother.


you're right though, the problem is definately too many people thinking that the system has anything to do with what it means to be a us citizen.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:04 | 2325965 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Very good Gully, no doubt your post covers a lot of people, even I was one of them, but all is not lost! I'm learning to game with the best, my first Gov't check is in the mail, if your interests, like all true capitalists, are to take all you can, and really (Why should everything flow to the top? or the bottom) to Hell with the poor and needy, Vets too I suppose, I want mine and all I can get, don't you? How do I get "IT" you ask; position yourself in a way that they give it to you! just like they give "IT" to the politically connected elites, You won't get near as much as they do of course, still knowing someone else worked for it yet it is in your pocket is deeply satisfying! That must be the greatest insider pleasure, "knowing you have the good life on the back of an army of wage slaves" slaves you don't know and never will meet!

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:35 | 2326066 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Gully Foyle;

Firstly, you assume much - which makes you Asshole of the Month - and it's early in the month for that mantle - but no one can touch you after that diatribe of ka ka.

Second, you unwittingly include your own self in that hoard you condemn - making you - if you are honest, just as dumb.

Welcome - idiot.

Lastly, was this rant a reflection on how you got egged out of anything meaningful at the John Galt Easter egg roll-over roust about this morning at the Church of the Pernenially Born to be Beat?

If so, just go to WalMart and load up on the now-discounted marshmellow Easter chemicaled candy - and think you won.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:49 | 2326345 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

Gully Foyle is just some worthless fat fuck (he outed himself as such) playing arm chair economist and knowitall from the relative safety of his dank little dark space.

This is how he fills his VOID, trying to belittle everyone that's not within reach of getting their hands wrapped around his throat.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 09:02 | 2325963 dufferin
dufferin's picture

Nothing is free.

Tue, 04/10/2012 - 14:31 | 2332031 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

On that note I am charging you for all the sunshine and oxygen you've consumed since birth. Don't fret, I charge reasonable rates, and judging by the level of your commentary I'll guess you're at least 12 years old... so, carry the 7 and, um add the user fees for 144 months... I figure 20oz Au ought to cover it. That goes for the rest of you ZHers too. If Tylers don't mind they can store the bullion for me until I arrange for secure transportation. I accept silver too.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:46 | 2326078 MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

Main problem with free education and healthcare is that it is anything but free. The most expensive program for education and healthcare is "free" healthcare. BTW, There is no innovation in those systems, no customer service, and terrible inefficiency. Look at the VEterans admin. system. It is deplorable, but "free".

Left wing culture only works with Unicorn power. Grow up.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 19:04 | 2326729 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yeah, but whatever you do don't look at Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany (to name a few) successes in education, standard of living, lower health care costs/capita with everyone covered. No, best to just stick to the incredibly narrow parameters MMD has laid out for ya. At least if you want to maintain your confirmation bias.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 20:24 | 2326875 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Regardless of the 'success' - it still requires theft.

Tue, 04/10/2012 - 14:18 | 2331758 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

really? I didn't realize that was your oil that Norway was swelling its SWF with; better call in the jolly green giants with guns to 'liberate' it for you.

Assuming it is allowed by the world's current crop of imperialists, I wonder what your argument will be once Norway's SWF is so large that they can, (~)tax-free, maintain at current levels all the services they provide today for their population.

No, seriously, I'd love to hear it.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 21:00 | 2326942 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

I copied this from a previous post of mine, to counter your .......narrow minded argument....

The countries you use - as well as Finland - which is used by others, all have the same advantages going for them that the US does not;

1. They have strict, no bullshit immigration laws. Thus, their populations are static. Try to get in to one of those countries. You'll either have to have lots of money, be of family provenance, or marry someone indigenous to the country.

2. Indigenous populations, such as Iceland, Norway and Sweden for an example, have the same set of values, morals and standards. A better "fit", if you will, for a socialist central plan. Conversely, diverse countries such as the US, have all types of the aforementioned morays.

One look at the U.K. bears this out. Their open immigration policies have led that once indigenous population into financial ruin, with their dual sword self-stab of governmental health care.

3. Lastly, you assume governments can be run "honesty". Our founding fathers - Jefferson to be sure - warned of this, and counseled to "question authority". Our government's track record of running anything has been abysmal. Either they bankrupt it, ruin it, or over-regulate it. Our government is THE authority on monopolies. The USPS is just one example. They have sole right to each person's mailbox. Imagine if Microsoft were THE only software maker/GM THE only car company, etc.

Now I'll edit it to fit this response;

Try shoveling the same percentage per capita of illegal immigrants streaming across the above mentioned countries, daily, and them immediately sucking off those countries wonderful in place systems you mentioned. Won't take but a year, and those glimmering bastions of successes will crumble like week old cake. Not to mention a real pissed off populace of the aforementioned countries.

THAT is something you statists NEVER mention.

You ignore these two hugely important differences in the US vs. those "wonderful" socialist countries.

Tue, 04/10/2012 - 14:23 | 2331836 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

The 'American Exceptionalism' chestnut is wearing a bit thin, no? As is all of your  ideologically rooted blather.

Facts is facts bucko. But I'll humour you:

Points 1&2 are completely obliterated by examples like Canada.  Also, immigration policies can be changed.

3. is entirely a matter of opinion. The fact of the successes of the countries I've mentioned directly contradicts your assertion that it must always be this way. IE. just because other populations have the wherewithal to stand up to their gov't reps if they start behaving the way you allow yours to doesn't mean that they are going to suddenly decide tomorrow to start being as apathetic and docile as USeans.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 07:37 | 2325878 mind_imminst
mind_imminst's picture

Looks like you got your liberal arts degree in bitterness. Me too, after watching the current student loan bubble get out of control. The taxpayer will pay in the end.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 08:50 | 2325954 Nom de Guerre
Nom de Guerre's picture

"So what was your major?"

{SIGH} "Well, if you really must know, I received my Masters in Applied Feminist Deconstruction Theory of the Patriarchal Rapesystem in Postmodernistic Societies."

"That's interesting.  So, what's a barrista at Starbucks make nowadays?"


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 15:39 | 2326500 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Whether you all want to agree or not it seems to me that part of providing for the general welfare would be providin a general education to all citizens. I believe it's an imperitive since it will ultimatley become a security issue. But this doesn't mean college. However, if we want to maintain our positon in the world we better keep on educating our citizens. Well we don't have to but I get the feeling that we will all be learning Mandarin if we don't. Just my opinion try not to jump on me to much I just don't want to learn mandarin.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 20:28 | 2326884 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I junked ya for sounding like some polititard.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:16 | 2325564 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Edit: nevermind

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 10:43 | 2326074 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Oxford is about 10,000 pounds (roughly 16k). Harvard is 38k.

My alma mater (Cornell) is closer to 40k. Cornell is a much better school than Harvard from the perspective that there are far fewer delusional rich assholes (thinking the academic cmplex is a meritocracy and he/she earned her way into the school-the greatest predictor of educational attainment in America guessed it your parents tax return) and most homosexuals aren't in the closet. Compare those figures to a local SUNY school.  uition for undergraduate students (12 or more Credits) Residency Cost per semester New York State Resident $2,485.00 Out of State Residents




Sun, 04/08/2012 - 11:05 | 2326097 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Why is it that Harvard (with an endowment of 40 Billion give or take) even charges? 

Best guess for Sarah Lawrence College Tuition is US$ 42,600.00 (2010)


and so forth. Here is what everyone needs to understand and I think alot of you do understand this: EDUCATION IS NOTHING MORE THAN A HUSTLE. Schools WANT MONEY AND HIDE BEHIND THIS SACROSANCT VEIL WHERE CHILDREN GET MOLESTED IN FAVOR OF THE FOOTBALL TEAM'S SEASON NOT BEING INTERRUPTED. Education is as profilgate a business as there is in America quite possibly as lecherous as Wall St, gang banging, pharma, sex trafficking, etc. I have a decently carnal understanding of schools/education in America (private, public, etc) and I can say without reservation that school basically does the following:

1. Teaches you NOTHING

2. Grooms you for a sheepish miserable corporate life where you won't ask your boss too many questions (what happens when you are in high school or college and you call a teacher a fucking loser or lowlife? they expel you for "discipleinary reasons")

3. Puts you so far in debt that you have to work for one of these ridiculous companies like AIG or Goldman

4. Makes learning so unpleasant that you will have a negative association with any educaton thereby ensuring that you will be slaughtered and have your organs sold

5. Generates INCREDIBLE profits for Universities, standardized tests (how much money do you think the SAT/ACT/AP makes per annum??), and of course Wall St.

6. Let's talk endowments.........who manages them????? You guessed it. Every scumbag fund from here to Stamford, CT fondling themselves (aka making that 2 and 20). So, are schools in bed with Wall St/Evil Banks? Probably not. Yeah they are.




Sun, 04/08/2012 - 16:58 | 2326169 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Sarah Lawrence College: "all-in price" of US $58,334 (2011). Surely, it's over $60K now.


Sun, 04/08/2012 - 13:26 | 2326311 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

High tuition prices are required to keep the collectivist professors comfortable while corrupting the minds of the students. The real world doesn't teach collectivism, so colleges are needed to finish the job begun in public secondary educational institutions. Read about John Dewey and his thoughts about public education.

The only drawback I've heard to high tuition is that is brings some to believe that sexual promiscuity, being an inherent right along with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (well maybe not for the life of the unborn, and certainly not for liberty if it allows one to get out of paying one's fair share), should therefore require contraceptives be paid for by someone else.  

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 18:20 | 2545304 kall
kall's picture

Good point! Looking on how things are now I feel like this whole money in education thing got out of control. Where and when is this supposed to end? It's a real paradox: education has never been more expensive and yet we never had so many students as today. As a student managed to avoid the student loan, I just found a solution in education benefits online and now after graduation the time proved that I was right to take this path.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 00:11 | 2325558 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

And makimg it non-dischargeable is just another incentive not to seek a job and pay the loan off since there might be cases where wages are lower than loan repayment. And that, ladies and gentelmen, is called being an underwater graduate.

Sun, 04/08/2012 - 02:28 | 2325690 Donnie Duvanie
Donnie Duvanie's picture

These students don't yet know it, but, in addition to the courses they're paying for, you could say they're getting a free degree in marine biology. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!