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Did The SEC Hint At A 7% Market Plunge?

Tyler Durden's picture


Back in October 19, 1988, in response to Black Monday from a year earlier (the SEC is not known for fast turnaround times)  a little known SEC rule came into effect, known as Rule 80B, and somewhat better known as "Trading Halts Due to Extraordinary Market Volatility" which set trigger thresholds for market wide circuit breakers - think a wholesale temporary market shutdown. According to Rule 80B (as revised in 1998), the trigger levels for a market-wide trading halt were set at 10%, 20% and 30% of the DJIA. The halt for a 10% decline would be one hour if it occurred before 2 p.m., and for 30 minutes if it occurred between 2 and 2:30, but would not halt trading at all after 2:30. The halt for a 20% decline would be two hours if it occurred before 1 p.m., and between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. for one hour, and close the market for the rest of the day after 2 p.m. If the market declined by 30%, at any time, trading would be halted for the remainder of the day. Needless to say, a 30% drop in the market in our day and age when the bulk of US wealth is concentrated in the stock market, would be a shot straight to the heart of the entire capitalist system. Which is why the smallest gating threshold is and has always been the key.

However, despite the revision, as anyone who traded stocks on that fateful day in May knows, the market-wide circuit breakers were completely ineffective and unused during the HFT-induced and ETF-facilitated flash crash of May 6, 2010. In turn, the SEC's flash crash response was to implement individual stock-level circuit breakers which however, instead of restoring confidence in the market, have become the butt of daily jokes involving freaked out algos. This was merely the most recent indication of how horribly the SEC's attempts to "regulate" a market it no longer has any grasp or understanding of, backfire on it.

However, even that may pale in comparison to just how badly the SEC may have blundered yesterday afternoon, when it proposed yet another revision to its market-wide halt rule. And once again, instead of making traders and investors more comfortable that the SEC is capable and in control, the questions have already come pouring in: is the SEC preparing for another massive market crash?

This is what hit the tape from the SEC late yesterday:

The Securities and Exchange Commission has approved two proposals submitted by the national securities exchanges and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) that are designed to address extraordinary volatility in individual securities and the broader U.S. stock market.


One initiative establishes a “limit up-limit down” mechanism that prevents trades in individual exchange-listed stocks from occurring outside of a specified price band. When implemented, this new mechanism will replace the existing single-stock circuit breakers that the Commission approved on a pilot basis after the market events of May 6, 2010.


The second initiative updates existing market-wide circuit breakers that when triggered, halt trading in all exchange-listed securities throughout the U.S. markets. The existing market-wide circuit breakers were adopted in October 1988 and have been triggered only once, in 1997. The changes lower the percentage-decline threshold for triggering a market-wide trading halt and shorten the amount of time that trading is halted. The exchanges and FINRA will implement these changes by February 4, 2013.

The key word is bolded and underlined: lower. Because as noted above, the upped market-close threshold is irrelevant: should the S&P trade down to 800 on Monday, western civilization will have far bigger problems to worry about than reversing a market crash. It is the tiniest quantized increment that is relevant. Which according to the SEC is now a "mere" 7% to enact a market holiday, either temporary or indefinite.

This is how the market-wide circuit breaker language will look going forward:

  • Reducing the market decline percentage thresholds needed to trigger a circuit breaker to 7, 13, and 20 percent from the prior day’s closing price, rather than declines of 10, 20, or 30 percent.
  • Shortening the duration of trading halts that do not close the market for the day to 15 minutes, from 30, 60, or 120 minutes.
  • Simplifying the structure of the circuit breakers so that there are only two relevant trigger time periods, those that occur before 3:25 p.m. and those that occur on or after 3:25 p.m. The two periods replace the current six-period structure.
  • Using the broader S&P 500 Index, rather than the Dow Jones Industrial Average, as the pricing reference to measure a market decline.
  • Requiring the trigger thresholds to be recalculated daily rather than quarterly.

Additional, the SEC also adopted less relevant single-stock trading halts. Think Italian stock market where financial firms trade either limit up or limit down day after day now for months. Surely that helps restore confidence in the market:

The “limit up-limit down” mechanism, established jointly by the exchanges and FINRA, prevents trades in individual listed equity securities from occurring outside of a specified price band, which would be set at a percentage level above and below the average price of the security over the immediately preceding five-minute period. For more liquid securities — those in the S&P 500 Index, Russell 1000 Index, and certain exchange-traded products — the level will be 5 percent, and for other listed securities the level will be 10 percent. The percentages will be doubled during the opening and closing periods and broader price bands will apply to securities priced $3 per share or less.


To accommodate more fundamental price moves, there would be a five-minute trading pause, similar to the pause triggered by the current circuit breakers, if trading is unable to occur within the price band for more than 15 seconds.


Under the new plan all trading centers, including exchanges, automated trading venues, and broker-dealers executing trades internally, must establish policies and procedures to prevent trades from occurring outside the applicable price bands, honor any trading pause, and otherwise comply with the procedures set forth in the plan.

In the grand scheme of things, the stock limit mechanisms are irrelevant. They never worked before, and will not work in the future. Perhaps if the SEC really cared about restoring some single-stock level confidence it would consider implementing the stub trade ban which allegedly prevents idiotic executions from taking place, yet which as Nanex shows us on a daily basis, happens all the time with exchanges gaming every possible loophole.

What is relevant, and what is very disturbing, is why did the SEC just lower the band from 10% to 7%: why 7%? And why now? What is even more troubling is that as Bloomberg's Nina Mehta writes, the decision to make these changes was not made by actual traders, not by actual people who understand how broken the market is (such as those who have been banging the table on broken market structure since 2009... we are fairly confident readers know who these entities are), but... wait for it... Nobel prize winning economists!

An advisory committee to the SEC and Commodity Futures Trading Commission recommended changing the marketwide system. The advisers included Joseph Stiglitz, an economist who won the Nobel Prize; David Ruder, a former SEC chairman; Brooksley E. Born, who was chairman of the CFTC; and John J. Brennan, chairman emeritus and senior adviser at Vanguard Group Inc.

And another entity involved, is the exchange which allowed Corzine to make off with billions in client funds, which have, since the November bankruptcy, still not been discovered:

The owner of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is examining the SEC’s approval of the marketwide circuit breakers, Michael Shore, a spokesman for CME Group Inc. (CME), wrote in an e-mail. The company has circuit breakers for equity-index futures that are consistent with those in the stock market.


“CME Group has been a strong advocate for more appropriately calibrated marketwide circuit breaker trigger levels that are coordinated across trading venues,” Shore said. “We have commented extensively on the proposals, are currently evaluating the changes approved by the SEC and will be submitting proposed amendments to our rules in the near future.”

Surely nothing quite like getting an economist and an exchange that stood idly by as billions in client funds vaporized, together in the same room and hatching a brilliant plan to avoid shareholder losses.

The question obviously is: what does the SEC know that nobody else does? And why now, just as everyone is terrified that Europe is on the verge of an all out collapse? And just as importantly, why wait until February 2013? Why not implement now to at least avoid the potential of a total market cataclysm including potentially the game-ending 30% drop in the last hour of trading?

Basically what the SEC just did is make sure everyone has a stop loss order 7% below the prevailing NBBO. And with so little volume in markets, and with the HFT algos having nothing better to do than inflicting max pain on traders by hunting stops, primarily to the short squeeze side, but now courtesy of the SEC, to the downside as well, one can be sure the HFT-induced selling pressure to hit the market-wide "Max Pain" point will suddenly become very topical.

Our advice: have limit sell orders a few percentage points above the 7% threshold that the SEC suddenly is infatuated with. Because once they are crossed, the entire market will light up in one massive stop loss trading activation. It would also be prudent to pair trade this limit order with a limit buy just above the 20% down threshold that DKed orders during flash crash day.

In other words, thanks to the SEC's statement, and to the psychological effect of "framing" so popular to traders, down 7% in milliseconds just became the New Killing It.

We leave readers with the current chart showing the NYSE's own market-wide trading halts. Learn it well.

Allow us to paraphrase the last sentence: "in the event of a 3900-point decline in the DJIA, you better be locked and loaded."


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Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:02 | 2487223 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

The market could use a few holidays, its been working overtime to produce hopium...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:44 | 2487725 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



Obama administration has once again rebranded their campaign slogan. Advisers of the Obama administration spearheaded the initial slogan as What The Fuck. Due to the low popularity, the message was changed to FORWARD. Again, mounting negativity continued to prevailed due to negative poll numbers.


The administration has finally released the newest campaign slogan.. Hope & Choom 

In order to avoid further scrutiny regarding the upcoming debt ceiling debate, they decided to utilize the same rainbow emblem. This time around, a leprechaun will be added to unearth a stone to uncover a EBT card found next to the rainbow [look closely at his back pocket, the UN internet Flame source code reveals itself]. Behind the leprechaun is a mushroom gleaming  an unknown radiance. This symbolic expression will represent a Obama Care health card for the pickings. This party really means business. I can only imagine they’ll kick Romney in the nuts over this marketing stunt. 


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 20:11 | 2488009 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“Choom we can believe in.”

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 20:14 | 2488016 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture


Sun, 06/03/2012 - 06:02 | 2488725 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Thanks for the link.  It took me a couple of minutes to get past the Elvis impersonator mutton chops and jet black dyed hair, but his rationale is solid and well-grounded. 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 21:40 | 2488147 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Pardon my naive ignorant sheared sheep point of view BUT any loss llimits on a rigged market only protect the the magnitude of the losses of the algo players and slim market makers. Not the investor.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:22 | 2487225 unununium
unununium's picture

Always have GTC limit orders in place to take profits from crazy swings.  These worked during the flash crash.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:40 | 2487280 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

I am extremely worried this new SEC rule will affect my positions.

Oh "positions" are physical...nevermind.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:08 | 2487329 malikai
malikai's picture

All my favorite "positions" are "physical".

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:48 | 2487359 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



In the stock market right now you're pretty much limited to taking a rear entry position.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:54 | 2487742 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

yes we wouldn't want the Big Boys taking it up the arse on large positions now would we

rig the market and give them time to make for the Exits (in 'outside hours' trading times and dark pools) and leave someone else holding the bag

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:41 | 2487960 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

This is why it is important to be adequately invested in Grease.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 21:02 | 2488083 fourchan
fourchan's picture

welcome to the "Free market".


all i need to know is that the direction is down, everything else is noise and blather.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:34 | 2487389 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Long Kama Sutra, especially practiced in the presence of PM's.

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 13:49 | 2489383 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Pretty Mistresses

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:15 | 2487447 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

"Allegorical" paper positions sure ain't what they used to be.

Please fold your seat trays and secure your seat belts, we've flown into a "liquidity" void and are traveling through another dimension, a dimension where price diminishes to value. There's a signpost up ahead. It says "Exit the Market"



Sat, 06/02/2012 - 22:55 | 2488318 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

I see what you did there, Rod.

Very nice! 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:53 | 2487513 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

In Russia, every position is physical. And involves a ball gag and handcuffs.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:57 | 2487420 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "Always have GTC limit orders in place to take profits from crazy swings. These worked during the flash crash"


Always have a little of physical Au & Ag... These will work well in a flash crash of fiat paper (especially when the flash crash turns into a hockey stick formation)...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 17:02 | 2487756 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Always have GTC limit orders in place

Do HFT's have access to limit order stops?


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 17:14 | 2487778 aldante
aldante's picture

Hft's love the low hanging fruit.....

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:05 | 2487227 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

It's not enough that the Fed manipulates the market, now it wants to tell people when they can sell? Unbelievable!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:25 | 2487257 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

Why not? It's their money. /sarc

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:07 | 2487317 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

So when everyone finally realizes that Facebook is a fraud, it will go limit down 7%. Then how many days before you can bail? What happens when a stock opens bidless? You're stuck with it to infinity.


This is a rhetorical question of course; I bailed from the stock market  years ago.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:10 | 2487330 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

Charts will look like stairwells, instead of heart attacks (see Greek banks.)

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:42 | 2487497 potlatch
potlatch's picture

lol i love this site.  brilliant wit there, OP

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:31 | 2487964 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

"If it ain't nailed down, it's mine, and if I can pry it up, it ain't nailed down." ~ Jamie Dimon

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:38 | 2487491 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

They tell you who you can sell to too!

Can't find the cite, but `member the Bush administration telling Conoco shareholders to eat a 2$/share haircut  because selling to the Chnese was verbotten,

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:36 | 2487596 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture

Backroads of Flordia is where I think I'll go to enjoy a 'market holiday."  Eat some of that deep fried oily Shell fish (oops, i mean deep fried BP fish, not Shell) and take in a little sun and fun.

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 03:32 | 2488649 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Try the glow-in-the-dark tuna, it's to die for!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 22:15 | 2488222 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

When a government agency can prevent market prices from going "outside a specified price band," you really don't have a market any more.

When the largest investment bank can go an entire quarter without a single losing day of trading, then what they're doing isn't really trading.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:06 | 2487230 poopman
poopman's picture

its official zerohedge has jumped the shark. it is now just simply another fear mongering alternative news outlet.


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:10 | 2487235 maxmad
maxmad's picture

oh noes!  Someone is on the wrong side of the market!   "You're going the wrong way, You're going to kill somebody!"

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:40 | 2487979 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, max_m.d.!

check this out from slewieintel :

  • poopman:  1 year;  35 weeks
  • this is his 8th post, total
  • 7 posts since aprilFool's day, 2012
  • 2 today
Sat, 06/02/2012 - 23:05 | 2488342 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Ha, funny movie.  "How do they know where we are going?"

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:13 | 2487243 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Actually, some formerly relevant bloggers accused ZH of "officially jumping the shark" back in 2009 when we warned the market was manipulated by algos, that a Fed-controlled market was a disaster just waiting to happen, and was set for a crash unlike any seen before (and confirmed a few months later in 2010). 

We still have to see those formerly relevant bloggers come up with a follow up.

More importantly, where in the above article does it say "Sell everything?" Habitual gamblers will double down to zero with or without our cautions, which incidentally, since the summer of 2009 have been to avoid stocks entirely and to simply purchase hard assets.

If anything, we suggest to have a limit sell order couple with a limit buy.

But to know that would imply actually reading what you comment on...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:10 | 2487333 malikai
malikai's picture

O/T, but it looks like those doomer Libertarians are at it again!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:41 | 2487496 MARGINKARLANDTH...


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:15 | 2487677 EINSILVERGUY

I often times see very well argued positions on ZH from people who bring a varied set of backgrounds and experience and knowledge. Other times I feel like a group of 13 year kids have taken over their parents basement, pounding on the keyboard between fits of laughter after saying shit ( or some variant)for the infinite time and staring at the first peak of bush from their dad's old playboy collection.  I must officially be old

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:24 | 2487353 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

It's probably useful to point out that amid the fear (and there's no other word for 1.45% 10 yr T's) the market was DOWN in 2011, and it's UP in 2012.

The S&P is up 1+% YTD.

Stop using history.  There is no history.  This is a world of serial intervention.  Not a world of technical or even fundamental analysis.  If there is a creditor threatening the system, he will be killed.  If gold threatens the system, transactions with it will be taxed at 60%.

Man made things like "value" can be controlled by Army firearms or gov't edict.  Only physics ends this.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 17:05 | 2487759 prains
prains's picture

math actually ends it, physics being a corollary

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:15 | 2487944 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Is that the math of high frequency trading algorithms, derivatives, ballistics analysis, facial / voice / anger / threat recognitition, or maybe retinal / rectal / finger scans?  Yes, indeed, math ends it. 

Thank god we also have Ethics / Humanities / Philosophy / Theology / Arts as a counterweight. 

I'm just looking for a large enough lever to catapult math into interstellar space where it can meet its end when it collides with anti-math.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 22:19 | 2488232 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Don't know about math, but love is chemistry, sex is physics.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:48 | 2487507 geewhiz190
geewhiz190's picture

great piece, probably not fully understood by the bulk of the comments which seem to support your view that it's too long for most readers to read completely.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:28 | 2487583 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Markets are programmed not to drop precipitously.  There is a maximum down angle that they are allowed somewhere on the order of half a percent an hour....  World war 3 could go off and the Algos would as programmed simply walk it down at a given pace.  you dont have to believe me, just look at the charts.  Line shots are however allowed to the upside.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 20:12 | 2488011 Rahm
Rahm's picture

Morgan is a switch hitter if you know what I mean.  Scarlett letter.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:31 | 2487270 EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

Poopman, it's official. You are a fucking moron! Now telling the truth is fear mongering...get out of here loser.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:48 | 2487291 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Poopman  .. why do you chose to stay on this site ? are you a paid shill ? I cant understand if you feel ZH is so "untrue" move along back to CNBC where you came from .

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:54 | 2487306 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

He simply proves the old adage:  Poop for brains!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:07 | 2487431 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

he also called for Faceplant @85 the first day

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:04 | 2487659 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

poopman has put his entire faith in the  Rockefeller/Rothschild joint venture to save our financial system.  I see a reptilian race initiating Skynet system.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:43 | 2487287 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Turning and turning in the narrowing gyre, the poopman finds the drain.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:54 | 2487303 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

It's offical.  A name like poopman indicates severe personal issues.

Don't worry about ZH, worry about the face in the mirror.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:35 | 2487391 BLACK_DOG
BLACK_DOG's picture

It's simple Code 46 !!!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:42 | 2487606 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

Yes poopman,  Just what is your facination with excrement?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:40 | 2487717 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

His nose is so far up Obummers arse, the nickname was obvious.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:05 | 2487324 Jena
Jena's picture

And what's keeping you here, then?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:19 | 2487351 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

What took you so long? I came to that same conclusion over a year ago when Tyler kept saying "Greece is going to default! Greece is going to default!" These guys have no grasp of how resilient the world's economies are. Bunch of Chicken Littles.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:27 | 2487371 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Barry, is that you?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:03 | 2487658 EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

Classic, lol...great

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:44 | 2487726 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Dead Fred is better at Dead Pan Sarcasm than Million Dollar Anus ever could be.


There's only one problem ZH, nobody likes the truth told to them, even the Greeks, it always has to be presented in metaphorical terms.

Just ask the Oracles of Delphi.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:37 | 2487395 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

You forgot the [sarc] [/sarc].

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:17 | 2487555 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Dead - it appears you need the sarc no matter how obvious you think you are being - looka all those down arrows.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:22 | 2487565 Umh
Umh's picture

That's not resilence it's digging deeper holes. Even these people know it deep down inside.


Sun, 06/03/2012 - 02:36 | 2488614 zorbathefreak
zorbathefreak's picture

Smoke another one, brah!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:24 | 2487361 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Wow, you really are full of poop man. 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:17 | 2487450 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Poopman, have you ever wondered what happens when the selling in ETF's and index funds outpaces the percentage level of actual sales (or should I say sale attempts) of the underlying equities? It's called 1929 and 1987 in one giant furball because it can happen in microseconds.

Tyler has been spot on about the HFT and algo based market threats and if you bothered to go back and read the actual postings Zero Hedge put up after the "Flash Crash" you might have a clue.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:27 | 2487468 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture

this bitch just got poop-ed on by TD

fuckin idiot

if anything, TD's articles never give outright doomsday advise, they give us info with their own opinion and interpretation (incidently if you actually read those articles, you retard you will realize those interpretations are grounded in exceptional common sense, experience and acute observations)

so go fuck yourself

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:20 | 2487563 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Thought our host had been salting his overly prodigious efforts with subliminal inducements to buy shares of Facebook. He has single handedly destroyed the illusion  of a "free" market (g*ddamn commie has been taking us for a ride!)

!ts time to get back to basics and surreality that only CNBC can offer (soap and a catcher's mitt to CNBC for their acquisition of that devilishly pixieish ex Bloomberg TV alumnus working the play by play mike - she is so cute!)

Weirdest ever: EUR USD up by almos a basis point and instead of climbing 300 points, the DOW goes the other way. Gold goes into orbit and the market dives to purgatory - this is some strange shit.

Since Friday close gold continues to price up to "value" while DOW Futures have shed almost 300 points - the S&P almost 35 points (these ain't no HFT bull traps - the machines have lost control!



Where is this all gonna end up - sure hope the Obummer can get the funds to gas up the 30,000 drones his SS has deployed.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:17 | 2487680 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

I'll only add this to the "Poopman" thread: There's always a deaf, dumb and blind fucker who accuses people of "Talking down the market" or "Fear mongering" for pointing out plainly obvious facts.

If facts scare the shit out of you, then it tells me far more about you than it does about those who try to make predictions/conjectures based on facts. 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 18:42 | 2487907 poopman
poopman's picture

ok, just a quick question. at what point will you guys sell your gold?


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 22:15 | 2488220 poopman
poopman's picture

this is not what a site full of independent thinkers looks like. this is cult activity. you can just answer the question if you want.


Sun, 06/03/2012 - 03:39 | 2488653 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

When do you make a claim on your homeowner's insurance policy?

(HINT:  AFTER the tornado has left!)

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 02:13 | 2488588 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I would probably sell SOME of my gold a year or so after the new monetary system is put into place.  That means I will continue to hold most of what I have in case the new system shakes apart.  I don't think I'll be selling all my gold and am pretty positive that my silver will be used during the transition as true money to buy food, ammo, fuel, toilet paper, etc.

For the rest of my life I will be like my grandparents.  I will have no trust in any financial institution and will keep most of my currency in my physical control.  Soft assets in the mattress, hard assets all over the house.  (I'm getting old so I don't have any 'hard assets' involving a mattress.)

Unlike my grandparents, after the collapse and my improbable survival of the immediately soon to be WWIII, I will be lethally dubious of governmental, bureaucratic officials intentions in my day to day activities.  I am already very close to viewing such parasites as rabid creatures that must be put down upon any encounter for the good of the community.  I imagine that my life experiences during the collapse, if I happen to survive, will make it more likely that I would be pro-active on eliminating all perceived threats with terminal prejudice.

Now, since you've been branded by the ZH community as just another bureaucratic mole with probable links to our new brand of gestapo, Department of Homeland Security (and the over million strong public and mercenary parasites that they have fostered), please feel free to take the above rant and shove it up your ass.


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 21:19 | 2488108 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

poopman is a good name for is shithead

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 21:40 | 2488150 zanez
zanez's picture

Pooper, I heard your sister makes $87 an hour on 'the internet'.


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:09 | 2487231 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Anybody who bought Monster Energy at $8/share on May 6, 2010 made a killing, stock is selling at $70, even after this correction.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:20 | 2487255 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

It's unfortunate that you were unable to alert us to this opportunity back in May 2010.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:33 | 2487387 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



"Don't stop him he's on a roll."

'Boon'.  Animal House.  1978


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 18:58 | 2487924 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I must correct this for you:

"Don't stop him he's on a troll."

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 22:30 | 2488270 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

You've been 'aware" for many more years than many of us here. The can kicking and extending/pretending have been damned near insufferable for the past 3-4 years. In your estimation, are we there yet?

Despite fleeting moments of panic, an eery sense of calm has settled over life around here. It's like the last stage of terminal illness...acceptance.

Hoping the new "bunker" is complete and you are settled in.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:08 | 2487432 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



Well, actually he was.  Perhaps he wasn't necessarily saying, "Go buy Monster because it's going to be a 10 bagger...." but he was, nonetheless, marveling at how resilient the equity snapback was after the worst financial crisis in many generations.  Not only that, but many of the most unthinkable equities were creating massive gains, like Monster.

Unfortunately, everyone here was trumpeting some bizarre idea that if you go to your local coin store and overpay for some coins, you'll bring down a trillion dollar Wall Street bank and destroy the fiat money system. While that created an infinite number of small town bagholders, you could have thrown a dart at virtually any equity and had massive returns.  While all you doomers have been predicting the end of the world every two weeks, you could have increased your wealth significantly just by riding around on Bernanke's coattails. Instead, you got duped by carnival barkers and cartoons.


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:37 | 2487487 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

That is MDB quality

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:43 | 2487489 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Max! You little're back.

In the words of one of your best loved liberal ho-bags, JaneAnne Garafalo, channeling Romi and Michelle...

Fuck off!

Stay fully invested and watch the level tank like a stone - good for you!

Your small little chick pea for a brain has the faithful here ALWAYS in cash, always buying PM's.

No...sorry dickhead...we buy and go long....but knowing when to SELL and get out is always warranted.

See, if you were a trader, you'd know that there are two sides; the entry, and the EXIT...

I call ass on your little rant as "right side of the chart" investing/trading"....allllllllllllways "helpful" to hear some douche talk about what they COULD have done. I bet your little hobo bag of money hasn't done much either.

Tell that to many pre-1987, 1994, 2000, 2008...want me to go farther back son?

Oh one last thing, Mr. Long and Strong....invest that hard earned money of yours in 2000, then go to sleep....

It's about the same amount right now.

This is a secular bear market, dummy.

On top of it, your boy Benny wasn't around throwing money out of a helicopter.

We did have Alan (WTF word did he just use???) Greenspan, and a cover thy eyes stance of letting shit get out of hand in other departments. This is a de-basing shitstorm a-brewing fool.

Stay long - don't EVER exit.

Wise up, and learn some lessons.

But that's the liberal "thinker"...linear...and never ever wrong....ever...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:05 | 2487532 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Max ~ What? is it raining & the lawnmower boy has the day off?

You're rhetorical (il)logic has no merit...

If the idea is to hold paper assets, then I guess it was a great idea to hold tulips, or zimbabwe dollars, or Argentine pesos, or Brazilian cruzados, or JDS Uniphase stock, (or even the house you bought in 2005) through thick & thin... right?

Unless you want to sell everyone on the merits of 'trading'... If you're all in on doing that as a hobby, then I can understand why the lawnmower boy gets first dibs on shoplifting the pooty...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:11 | 2487540 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

There's truth in what you say...timing can be a bitch though. Rhythm method doesn't always work. Can't help but think the rug is going to be pulled out from under us.

Be nimble, be quick.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:50 | 2487624 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

yes, a trillon dollar Wall Street is quite capable on it's own of bringing down both itself and the fiat money system... without the little people's help, thank you.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:05 | 2487647 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Hey Max, 23000 Russian Orthodox churches built in the last 20 years. Now that is what I call hope and change.

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 09:17 | 2488856 QuickFrozen
QuickFrozen's picture

the Russian Orthodox anti-missile system  lol



Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:48 | 2487733 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

you could have increased your wealth significantly just by riding around on Bernanke's coattails

Here's to hoping you got out in time.

Some, on the Berskanks coattails, are closer to his double secret portal than others. You either work for a money center or you know someone that does - if ya ain't got a smudge of "chocolate" from Bernank's double secret on your nose, or the money center HFT algor rooms that own him, it may have been to risky a gambit to time.

Gold was easier to time and looks to have outperformed any paper on the board. Given the noise from the Swiss and Germans  to repatriate their FED parked gold - ya had to know the recent FMOC directed gold short squeeze was put into play so the FED could un-hypothocate it's Gold leins as close break even as the manipulations of their money center agents would allow to cover sure to come hardcore sovereign claims.

The Chinese, unlike DoT, now has direct access to UST transactions - no more margins for money center broker man - that can't be good - the Chinese have been feeding those guys and putting Coke change in their pockets for years - now that little profit center be no more.

Got this feeling the Berskank has run out of options - it's anyones market now and all the kings men and all the kings soldiers will be hard pressed to refabricate the illusion again.

The machines have lost control. Nano time sliced nano price slicing and result net nano gains are unable to produce enough of a return to meet the skimpy margin requirements to even run a simple bull baiting.

Retail traders were taken out 3 years ago. Mom and pop "money managers" that didn't have the sense to use trading models that "quit" trading for the rest of the market before they sold off all their "client plan" allocations are out (always - mean always - when the last liquidation floor is breached - do not reset - instead - stop trading that position until next day,)

What we see now is what one sees when the only player is one or two money center HFTs baiting themselves, or, each other. Is Skynet committing Seppuku (better than hanging from a tree by the ankles soaked in piss and snot)?

So - you sill gonna hang close to where the sun don't shine - does the Berkank, in your opinion, still have a card or two up his sleeve?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:45 | 2487289 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I've got some great hindsight trades too.  I use google and charts to find my best historical buy and sell trade dates and voila I'm theoretically rich!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:01 | 2487316 spinone
spinone's picture

thanks professor hindsight

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:13 | 2487340 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If only I had been smart and picked the correct lottery numbers. Doh!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:03 | 2487427 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

RoboTrader will gladly tell you what a single selected stock did yesterday for a hamburger today (which he'll eat in his mom's basement with a bottle of cold Yoo-Hoo & dancing by himself to Shaun Cassidy tunes)...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:13 | 2487343 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

... and if you bought Microsoft in 1988..... blah blah blah. Retrospective advice.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:27 | 2487372 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

How long has Robot been back? We've had replacement versions of his straight-man routine but I missed the charts. Besides MDB's avatar sucks in comparison.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:31 | 2487383 brewing
brewing's picture

figured you'd fling your poop right after poopman...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:54 | 2487419 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Monkey see, monkey do...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:30 | 2487475 brewing
brewing's picture

i see max fischer has now chimed in.  where's letthemeatrand...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:49 | 2487621 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Robo where you been? Must be counting all your winnings from FB and GM.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:35 | 2487708 Landrew
Landrew's picture

I am still working a second job to pay off your First Solar idea ha! Down a whopping 1000%!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:14 | 2487238 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Doesn't matter if it happened. As each day grows closer, so do the strains of energy to keep the illusion propped up.. My $.02 for the day


After another generation has become indoctrinated through the system, the Cores feel quite confident that the deterioration of capitalism will stick to the wall this time around.  Why? They think ObamaCare will be deemed constitutional. The Cores will shortly begin to have their man-child tantrum. 

It’s a very simple concept, as the computer/mobile phone market matures, the Core profit centers begin to slip.  

Pausing for a moment.. A few weeks ago, my friend came over with his iPhone and asked me if I still had my Nokia 6600 I bought in England back in 2003. Keep in mind, I have a BB Torch 9800. After charging it for a while, we fired the bitch up. 

My friend: Let’s see.. it has email, text, bluetooth, internet, fax, joystick navigation, infrared port, video camera, photo camera, file management, calendar, USB cable, voice commands, wallet, notes, games, memory card, Sync, voice recorder, converter, RealOne player, and a gallery to store photos & video. Wow Atomizer, this was cutting edge back in the day.

Me: Let’s focus on what it doesn’t have.

My friend: larger screen, no qwerty keyboard, no touch screen, no apps, no iTunes, no BB App world, no SIRI

Me: We sure have progressed in technology haven’t we?

My friend: No, we really haven’t. 


Resumes to my point.

Back when the American reinvestment and recovery act of 2009 was formed, so was GE Healthcare to continue the Cores technology edge on future sagging consumer gimmick profits. We all know that a boat load of profits can be made off the aging population. The joke, they are merely a quality assurance tool defined by ObamaCare. These new high tech medical devices are simply a [go/no go] checkpoint to valuate a baby boomers fate in receiving free[taxpayer financed] universal healthcare.


Checkpoint Charles are all around you. Whether you drive by car, take a plane or engage in seeking medical assistance. Just look around! Enjoy this clip

Economy : Global Financial Crisis 

It’s not the End, rather a new beginning of Capitalism.. Mark my words.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:58 | 2487522 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Atomizer, re Economy : Global Financial Crisis ,  see

The Kondratieff Cycle: Real or Fabricated?

by Murray N. Rothbard

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 18:04 | 2487850 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



It really depends on what row of seats you resided during class discussion. Remember, I supplied Solyndra? It was a great run until they collapsed on taxpayers gravy train monies. I was weeks away from receiving my next quarterly purchase order. The other tiers in the manufacturing chain took the hit on millions of dollars’ worth of unrecoverable raw materials to meet a tight manufacturing schedule. Those invoices will never be paid back. Lucky for me, sad for others. 

I cannot click on your link, by choice. The only thing he taught me was a chart on hyperinflation. Everything else he presented was propaganda.  The only anti issues I have, the POS residing the WH. He and his cancer will reengage into a time capsule


Senator McCarthy on Democrats & Communism

The Hollywood Ten (1950)

Ronald Reagan on Communism in Hollywood 

Circumventing your link for others to see a bit of Murray N. Rothbard Bibliography


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:14 | 2487240 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Is Corzine moonlighting for the SEC?

Can we expect things to vanish?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:48 | 2487293 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

And its gone ....

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:12 | 2487241 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

80B20 MOS = bazooka, BiCheZ!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:16 | 2487244 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

EU now readying a "$1 trillion firewall"

I think Bernanke and Geither should issue new 6 mo. Treasury bills in $25 billion increments every day and use the proceeds to buy ES futures.

After all, the cost of this operation is practically zero, with the 6-mo. yield at 11 bp.

They can always repay the notes in 6 months after they have made a 25% gain on the ES futures.

How easy is that?

Hands down, the Fed is the biggest, most profitable hedge fund in the world.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:28 | 2487265 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Glad to see you survived the jump yesterday Robo!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:29 | 2487268 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

The Fed can makes its own luck for awhile but such schemes ALWAYS blow sky high.


And thanks for recycling the meaningless old news.  Is it possible even you know the jig is nearly up?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:38 | 2487278 unununium
unununium's picture

> They can always repay the notes in 6 months after they have made a 25% gain on the ES futures.

Why not cut out the middleman and just print euros to buy gold.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:08 | 2487325 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



Hello Robo, nice to see you back posting on ZH again. Do you and your Rasputin minions still believe in the infinite fiat theory? Can you tell other ZHer's how you’re going to bailout other government dependents like yourself? Or possibly the Eurotrash zone? 

Tell Rasputin I said Hello. Ask him if he regrets selling his Gold holdings? Lastly, ask about  the condition of the new deposable car he purchased several years ago.  :>0


Love & kisses.. Atomizer

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 18:23 | 2487876 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

It's really funny to read that forum.  I've gotten banned multiple times for questioning Rasputin (the moderators love him and visciously defend him).  75% of all the members post the same gold bashing posts day after day.  Rasputin posts interesting things sometimes, but the guy is very bipolar.  He tries to validate selling all his gold at $1100 by posting how PMs are in a massive bubble.  He's obviously suffering from a terrible case of sellers remorse.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:16 | 2487348 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

I was laughing to hard to finish the article at Germany will contribute 27% of the capital. LMAO ok... 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:31 | 2487382 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

They're already doing this. Is there an advantage to being open about it?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:20 | 2487458 El
El's picture

What is a trillion dollar fire wall going to do in the face of derivatives in the hundreds of trillions? Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I am truly baffled.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:38 | 2487711 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Indeed, a Trillion Dollar firewall made up of printed paper and debaised assets that have been soaked in highly inflammable fear, stacked high as the tower of Babel, will burn so bright and with great heat. That overly suntanned, bag toting IMF slag of a woman will find herself stripped of the remaining wrinkled flesh she so proudly displays.

Every Bank in Europe knows what's on its Books and they assume that the others are the same or worse. When the shit storm that's coming demands payment.... NOW, then this house of compromised paper will collapse and turn to ashes.

This is a contagious plague with very high mortality

Ding...Bring out your dead...Ding... Bring out your dead  


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 17:16 | 2487781 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

When the tulip mania died and people were scrambling around trying to figure out a way to avoid their appalling losses many law suits came before the courts.  The opinion of the courts were that these were gambling debts and therefore legally unenforceable.  If you don't hold an actual tulip bulb in your hot little hand (however sadly devalued it has become), but instead hold a paper that says you own a hypothetical tulip bulb or some portion thereof held on your behalf at some other location, or better yet, a derivative of that hypothetical tulip bulb, I believe you are going to discover the true meaning of hypothetical.     

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:07 | 2487935 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Rehypothecated tulip bulbs, vaporized. They needed cool words like "Corzined" to understand their plight.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 19:31 | 2487963 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is the 2nd post to this effect i have seen recently from the zHtongue_ster

the cBanksters'CasinoRayale needs to be shaken, not stirred?  sovBonds as gambling debts?  post-hankyPanky & the doe-eyed pelosi--YEP!!!

you do realize up against whom youRbumping, msC?  L0L!!!

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 15:23 | 2489587 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

She has been with us a while, so a little bit, yes!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:02 | 2487526 DraginDickHedge
DraginDickHedge's picture

Robo--While I usually disagree with you 99% of the time, I do enjoy your posts, but I've never thought you were STUPID before.  I am shocked by your lack of understanding of the article you linked to your post.  At best "readying" a trillion $$ firewall" only the first of the chimera and plucking spin/ lies in this article, which discusses only what may happen over some rainbow way up high...(calm the Monkeys) some day in a far future filled with the EU's godly good "intentions" to do X if numerous other future events come to pass, which of course likely will not.

1.  These intentions "Target" starting on July 9th.  Do I need to point out the two problems so far?

2.  Then there is the teensy problem that 17 Parliments must ratify that they think the possible intention is ok before a Euro is authorized...but wait, there is more.  The EU/ESM must receive 90% of the half even IF all 17 Parliments approve with zero modifications or probable is that by July 9 or ever?!?

3.  Then Germany has to decide if it will provide 27% of the ESM which in itself at best is only a % of the trillion. yadayadayada...

Yes, the pie in the sky guy says this future, target, day to 'start' seriously thinking about starting, well,  "it might be delayed"

Robo, Bad Boy...I liked your original avatar better...


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:28 | 2487582 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

They wants them Eurobonds

Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti believes eurobonds will become a reality in the 17-nation euro zone and that Greece will remain in the single currency, he told a Greek newspaper on Saturday.

1 hour ago

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 16:12 | 2487671 GernB
GernB's picture

I just must be dense or something. Can anyone explain to me how Eurobonds will make Greece more solvent, or describe some plausable scenario, based on past evidence, where Eurobonds would lead to Greece being more solvent.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 17:27 | 2487798 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Eurobonds will be backed by countries that can, at least currently, get their citizens to pay taxes.  Then no one will care what Greece does...

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 18:19 | 2487822 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Eurocuffs would probably be a better term to describe them.  They will probably be the next step in formalizing the debt structure, from a share perspective, of the banks that will possess the ECB.

Think Euro Jekyll Island moment.

Then cue the debt collector/plantation manager (translation: Euro IRS)

[EDIT for Addendum]:

Euro IRS...Ask and ye shall receive

(Snip - Emphasis mine)

In private, senior Spanish officials have said this could be done by using European money to recapitalise directly ailing banks or through a direct intervention of the European Central Bank on the bond market.

They have also said the euro zone should quickly move towards a fiscal union to complete its 13-year monetary union but Rajoy went a step further by making a formal offer.

"The European Union needs to reinforce its architecture," Rajoy said at an event in Sitges, in the north-eastern province of Catalonia. "This entails moving towards more integration, transferring more sovereignty, especially in the fiscal field.

"And this means a compromise to create a new European fiscal authority which would guide the fiscal policy in the euro zone, harmonise the fiscal policy of member states and enable a centralised control of (public) finances," he added.

3 hours ago


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:18 | 2487250 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

What do we expect when you have the wolf guarding the sheep?

And 7% on 7/7? 

Or 6% on 6/6 and downhill from there (for a bit anyways).

Western Geo-politics has been doing it's Islam-baiting (well Syria/Pakistan baiting for sure)..

Hmmmmmm......... port-ends a-plenty...

Butt, then there are the Olympics and the SHOW MUST GO ON...

Hard times to prognosticate, what with Black-Swans aplenty, circling over-head...





Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:32 | 2487385 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Don't snort bathsalts:

Initially just random babble and musings but then, you end up naked eating someone's face.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:11 | 2487437 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i gave him a +1 >--->for using the box at the bottom of the page

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:20 | 2487254 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

"And another entity involved, is the exchange which allowed Madoff to make off with billions in client funds, which have, since the November bankruptcy, still not been discovered"

Madoff? or Corzine? (typo?)

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:50 | 2487296 RSloane
RSloane's picture

That has to be Corzine.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:08 | 2487328 Matt
Matt's picture

Bernie Madoff. There's something like $50 Billion that has not been found.

In comparison, we already know that Corzine's relatively puny amount of $1.2 Billion is over at JPM.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:13 | 2487341 Dr. Kananga
Dr. Kananga's picture

Thanks. I have such a hard time keeping up with the miscreants and their bankruptcies nowadays. We need trading cards. :D

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:45 | 2487405 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Thats a novel idea, "BANKSTER" trading cards. Me wants em. ;-)

Package em up with some good cigars, so you can emulate them smoke-filled rooms. ;-0

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:14 | 2487441 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

This is a project for WB7!!!

He could sell them like hotcakes!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:15 | 2487445 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

And after the hangings, they would exponenciate in value!!!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:21 | 2487256 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

Seems to me that things are moving more and more quickly now.  I'm reminded of those old vaudeville routines where a guy tries to keep as many plates spinning as possible.  He can save the first few that start teetering but then three or four or five begin to tumble and the whole thing comes apart all at once.  TPTB seem to be trying to stick-save more wobbly plates every day now.  

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 14:10 | 2487435 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Wise trader say:  "It takes a long time to climb a mountain but falling off a cliff is so quick!"

As any price chart will verify.

This limit stop stuff is crazy and doesn't work-its death by a thousand cuts.  If you must speculate, buy options with pre-defined maximum losses. Roll and take profits, maintaining position (loss) size.  I always ask myself, wha't the most I'm prepared to lose, not how much I can gain.  But I'm a cynical pessimist which is why I love this site.

Short BAC, JPM, C, MS, FB, GRPN, FSLR, TSLA, NFLX  etc. via puts  (and way, way ITM). 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 15:00 | 2487525 JohnG
JohnG's picture



"I always ask myself, wha't the most I'm prepared to lose, not how much I can gain."



Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:25 | 2487260 Rainman
Rainman's picture

The world's top billionaires lost $ 24 billion last week. I wish I could lose that much without blowing my brains out. Whatever..... sleazy come, sleazy go.


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:24 | 2487261 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Does this mean their models aren't expecting the crash until after February 4, 2013 ?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:27 | 2487370 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

My gut feeling in 2013, but there are no rules. Could happen sooner.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:30 | 2487263 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

slewienomics pop-quiz:  who wrote, regading last week's 000,000,00olympic"douched fi-douche-e-airies and zombie triple-jump" prelims:

[Paste}  It is an exceptionally troubling backdrop.  I have always feared the day when reflationary policy measures finally wouldn’t suffice.  I’ve worried that the leveraged speculators would eventually blow up – a dynamic I expect to occur concurrently with policy measure impotence.  I’ve feared derivative and counterparty problems that, yes, would occur concurrently with hedge fund and market illiquidity issues.  In short, I’ve always worried about a global crisis of confidence with respect to the contemporary “global financial infrastructure.” {]

huh?  who dat?

Clewie the pi-rat clue->1st initial of 1st name =: D

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:37 | 2487277 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

Dave Navarro?

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:52 | 2487298 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Dave Navarro?  +1 for randomness 

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:56 | 2487308 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


clewieClue#2->last name beings with N

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 12:58 | 2487309 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Wow perhaps it wasn't as random as I had originally thought ha!

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:02 | 2487319 Jena
Jena's picture

A prudent bear.

Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:11 | 2487335 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


doug noland: PrudentBear [this is down about 10-12 paras]

jena:  you may either contact the snorkT site and tell them i said to send you a free t-shirt, or:  tell tyler and have HIM send you something?

good luck!  L0L!!!

ps:  youRaWinner!


Sat, 06/02/2012 - 13:45 | 2487410 Jena
Jena's picture

It's hard to keep up with the good writing that's out there.  Funny, but the clear-eyed stuff to me has always been bearish.


Thanks,  Slewie!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!