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Doug Casey Addresses Getting Out of Dodge

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Submitted by Doug Casey of Casey Research

Doug Casey Addresses Getting Out of Dodge

L: Doug, a lot of readers have been asking for guidance on how to know when it's time to exit center stage and hunker down in some safe place. Few people want to hide from the world in a cabin in the woods while life goes on in the mainstream, but nobody wants to get caught once the gates clang shut on the police state the US is becoming. How do you know when it's time to go?

Doug: Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that it's better to be a year too early than a minute too late. David Galland recently read They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, by Milton Mayer. He quoted a passage in his column of last Friday. It goes a long way in explaining why Americans appear to be such whipped dogs today. They're no different from the Germans of recent memory. For those who missed it, let me quote it:

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' … In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

"These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic… the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked… But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C?"

The fact is that the US has been on a slippery slope for decades, and it's about to go over a cliff. However, our standard of living, while declining, is still very high, both relatively and absolutely. But an American can enjoy a much higher standard of living abroad.

On the other hand, if I were some poor guy in a poverty-wracked country with few opportunities, I'd want to go where the action is, where the money is, now. Today, that means trying to get into the United States. The US is headed the wrong direction, but it's still a land of opportunity and a whole lot better than some flea-bitten village in Niger.

L: By the time things get worse than some Third-World dictatorship in the US, such a person could have remitted a whole lot of cash back home.

Doug: And you'd have a whole lot of experiences that would give you a competitive edge back where you came from, or in the next place you go to. The one-eyed man is king in the valley of the blind. People have to lose that backward, peasant mentality that ties them to the land of their birth. Sad to say, although the average American has somewhat more knowledge of the world – mainly due to television – his psychology is just as constrained as that of some serf from central Asia or some primitive village in Africa. It's all a matter of psychology.

But if you're not poor, you want to go someplace that is safe, nice – whatever that means to you – and with a lower cost of living. As most readers know, for me that's Cafayate, Argentina, but one size does not fit all. It needs to be a place you actually enjoy spending some time, with people whose company you enjoy.

L: Fair enough. But our readers want to know if your guru-sense is tingling yet, or how close you think we are to it being too late to leave – or at least too late to leave with any meaningful assets.

Doug: I'm a trend observer. This is one of the advantages of studying history, because it shows you that things like this rarely happen overnight. They are usually the result of trends that build over years and years, sometimes over generations. In the case of the US, I think the trend has been downhill, in many ways, for many years. Pick a time. You could make an argument, from a moral point of view, that things started heading downhill at the time of the Spanish-American War. That was when a previously peaceful and open country first started conquering overseas lands and staking colonies. America was still in the ascent towards its peak economically, but the seeds of its own demise were already sewn, and a libertarian watching the scene might have concluded that it was time to get out of Dodge –

L: [Laughs] That would have been a bit early…

Doug: [Chuckles] Yes, that would have been way too soon. As Adam Smith observed, there's a lot of ruin in a country.

L: On the other paw, it would have gotten you out before the War between the States, a disaster well worth avoiding.

Doug: No, the Spanish-American War was in 1898.

L: Oops! Sorry, I was thinking of what Americans call the Mexican-American War, but which Mexicans call the "American Invasion" –

Doug: [Laughs]

L: I'm not joking. That's what they called it in the history books I was given in Mexican schools when I lived there in the '70s. It has long seemed to me that that was an ominous turn for the worse for the US and a clear example of conquering a weaker neighbor purely for pillage – not just Texas, but everything from there all the way to California.

Doug: That's right. Davey Crockett and the boys, we love them, but in many ways they were the equivalent of today's Mexicans who want to recolonize the southwest and turn it back into part of Mexico, in what they call the Reconquista.

L: Indeed, but this is ancient history to most US taxpayers today – I'm reminded that it's not correct in many cases to call them Americans.

Doug: Yes, just as it was a misnomer to call the people who lived in the Roman Empire after Diocletian Romans – because Roman citizens were once free men. After about 300 AD most of them were bound to the land or their occupations as serfs. But the slide for Rome started at least 120 years earlier, after the death of Marcus Aurelius. Politically, the decline started with the accession of Julius Caesar 240 years before that. So, when did the slide – politically, economically, and socially – really start for the US? When were there no more trends going up?

L: FDR? The New Deal was really a moral, economic, and political turning point.

Doug: You could make that argument, but the US still grew economically, despite the roadblocks FDR threw in its path. US military power and global prestige continued growing from that point, although, paradoxically, the accelerating growth of the US military was directly responsible for the decline of the US economically and in terms of personal freedom. One reason for the ascendancy of the US after World War II was that we were the only major country in the world not physically devastated by the war.

L: Ah. Right.

Doug: So it seems to me that the peak of American civilization was in the 1960s. As for evidence, well, I like to put my finger on the 1959 Cadillac. Those twin bullet taillights, the opulence of it… In terms of then-current technology, things couldn't get much better.

L: "Opulence. I has it."

Doug: [Laughs – a real belly laugh] That's my favorite TV commercial! Anyway, that was the peak, in my mind. Though things continued getting better for a while, the US started to live out of capital.

L: Had to pay for guns and butter.

Doug: That's right. The Johnson administration's so-called Great Society created vast new federal bureaucracies that promised Americans free food, shelter, medical care, education, and what-have-you. Americans became true wards of the state. But the real, final nail in the coffin for America was in 1971 –

L: Nixon taking the US off the gold standard.

Doug: Nixon taking the US off the gold standard – open devaluation of the dollar, combined with wage and price controls for some months. And that was not long after the so-called Bank Secrecy Act, which abolished bank secrecy, and required the reporting of all foreign financial accounts. Nixon was, in many ways, even more of a disaster than Johnson. Republicans are usually worse than Democrats when it comes to freedom, partly because they like to couch their depredations in the rhetoric of defending the free market. While everyone understands that Democrats are socialists just under the surface, Republicans actually give capitalism a bad name. Baby Bush is a perfect, recent example.

L: But don't you worry your pretty little head about devaluation – it's just a "bugaboo" – and as long as you're not one of those unpatriotic people wanting to buy imports or vacation abroad, your dollar will be worth just as much tomorrow as it is today. The scary thing is that the Belarusian dictator Lukashenko said almost the same thing when the Belarusian ruble lost two thirds of its forex value earlier this year, asking his countrymen why they need to go on vacation in Germany or buy German cars…

Doug: You see why I like to study history? It doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme…

L: With a vengeance.

Doug: So, anyway, since 1971, some things have improved largely due to technological advances, but the America That Was has been fading into the past. It was a decisive turning point. You can see that in the accelerated proliferation of undeclared wars we've had since then. I don't just mean the penny-ante invasions of Granada and Panama – the US has always lorded it over Caribbean and Central American banana republics; those are just sport wars. But Iraq and Afghanistan are alien cultures on the other side of the world – apart from never posing any threat to the US. Now it looks like Iran and Pakistan are on the dance card, and they're big game. The War Against Islam has started in earnest, and it's going to end badly for the US. I explained all this at great length in the white paper, Learn to Make Terror Your Friend, that I wrote for The Casey Report last month.

Domestically, saying that the US is turning into a police state when you started this conversation was quite accurate. You can see more and more videos spreading over the Internet, not just of police brutality, but demonstrating the militarization and federalization of police, who are being inculcated with both disdain for and paranoia about ordinary citizens.

In the old days, if you were stopped for speeding, the peace officer was polite – you could get out of your car, meet the cop on neutral ground, and chat with him. You didn't have a serious problem unless you were obviously drunk or combative. Now, you don't dare make a move. You better keep your hands in plain sight on the steering wheel and be ready for a Breathalyzer test without probable cause. The law enforcement officer will stand behind you with his hand on his gun. And you're the one who'd better be polite.

L: There has been a polar reversal. The cops used to address citizens as "sir" or "ma'am." Now, the correct response in a traffic stop is: "Yes, sir! I would love to inspect the bottom of your boot, sir!"

Doug: [Laughs] That's right. My friend Marc Victor gives out magnetized business cards. People ask, "Why?" He answers that it's so clients can put them on the bottom of their cars or refrigerators, so they can see it when the cops throw them to the ground.

L: Marc's a good man. There's a handy video on Marc's website, offering advice on what to do if you're pulled over by the police in a traffic stop.

Doug: A good public service announcement. At any rate, I think there's no question that the US has turned the corner on every basis: politically, socially, morally, and now, economically…

L: Okay, but, Doug, you said that in 1979 too. The question is, how do we know when the door is going to close?

Doug: [Laughs.] Well, sometimes I feel a little like the boy who cried wolf. But Roman writers like Tacitus and Sallust saw where Rome was going before it got completely out of control. Should they have said nothing, for fear of being too early? Here in the US, it should have gone over the edge back in the 1980s, but we got lucky. There was still a lot of forward momentum, which can last for decades when you're speaking of civilizations. There was the computer productivity boom. The Soviet Union collapsed, China liberalized, and Communism was discredited everywhere except on US college campuses. The end of the Cold War opened up vast areas of the world to the global market. And most surprising of all, Volker tightened up the money supply and interest rates went high, causing people to save money and stop borrowing to consume.

L: That's not happening this time.

Doug: No. We got lucky back then. Since the '90s we've had a long and totally phony, debt-driven boom that's now come to an end. I feel very confident that there's no way out this time. There are huge distortions and misallocations of capital that have been cranked into the system for two decades. And not just in the US this time, but in Europe, China, Japan, and elsewhere.

The US is very clearly on the decline. The fact that in spite of bankrupting military expenditures to no gain for the American people, those in power are talking overtly and aggressively about attacking more countries – Iran and Pakistan in particular – is extremely grave. The fact that they attacked Libya – which, incidentally, is going to turn into a total disaster, a civil war that will last for years – shows it's not stopping. Sure, Obama brought troops home from Iraq – another disaster that's going to remain a disaster for years to come – but at the same time he put a company of combat troops in Uganda, of all places and Marines in Australia, to provoke the Chinese.

Back home, I've read reports that people are being stopped for carrying gold coins out of the US, in Houston in particular. Now we have authorization of the military to detain US citizens, on US soil, with no trail, and indefinitely, on the verge of becoming law. And Predator Drones have been used to hunt down farmers on their own ranches.

I could go on and on. This is not like spotting early signs of decay in America's expansionist wars of the 19th century or things getting worse with FDR. Most people can't see it with all the noise and confusion, but we've reached the edge of the precipice.

L: Don't worry about exactly where the edge is, just assume it's there and take appropriate action?

Doug: Yes. It really is there. It's a clear and present danger. But most Americans are as oblivious as most Germans were in the '30s. In fact, most of them support what's going on, just as most Germans supported their government in the '30s and '40s.

L: So… don't worry about figuring out exactly when the gates will shut. Assume they are shutting now?

Doug: That's right. One should be actively and vigorously looking to expatriate assets, cash, and even one's self. A prudent person will always be diversified politically and internationally.

L: What about people who have jobs they can't continue doing from abroad and who need the income?

Doug: They should still prepare, as best they can, to be ready to go on a vacation when things get hot – a vacation from which they might not return for a long time. All that needs happen, with the hysteria that's building in the US, is for a major terrorist incident – real or imagined – to occur. Homeland Security will lock the country down. I hate to admit it, but I'm almost starting to credit the stories about those FEMA camps.

Look, I know it sounds extreme, and the comparison to pre-WWII Germany has been made many times, but it bears repeating. Germany was the most literate, civilized, and even mellow, in some ways, country in Europe. It was much admired all around the world – a nation of shopkeepers, small farmers, and scholars. But the whole character of the place started changing in 1933, and it just got worse and worse. By the end of 1939, if you weren't out, you were done.

L: [Pauses] Well, not a cheerful thought. Actions to take?

Doug: Things we've said before: Set up foreign bank accounts in places you like to travel, while you can. Set up vault arrangements for physical precious metals outside the US. Buy foreign real estate that you'd like to own, because it can't be forcibly repatriated. Offshore asset protection trusts are a good idea too. Become an International Man. Let me emphasize that US taxpayers should stay within all US laws, because the consequences of breaking them are unbelievably draconian.

Generally, one simply must internationalize one's assets. The biggest danger investors face, by far, is not market risk – huge as that will be – but political risk. The only way to insulate yourself from such risk is to diversify yourself politically and geographically.

L: Right then… words to the wise. Thanks for your insight.

Doug: You're welcome. Most won't, but I just hope readers listen.


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Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:14 | 2034082 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture
  1. Headline: 15 November, 2012.
  2. The following message was smuggled out of Guantanamo Bay Terrorism Retention Facility #3 yesterday. From ex Senator McCain, inmate #23.
  3. “I made a tragic mistake thinking Obama would never use the NDAA power we gave him against honest American citizens. Here in GTMO with all of the other Republican Senators legally elected just a week ago, and all the Republican Congressmen and women also legally elected, with the results of the election cancelled by the President and the winner, Mitt Romney arrested and missing, it is clear to me that the Nation’s only hope now is a revolt by the military personnel sworn to uphold the Constitution.”
Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:19 | 2034095 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

This is not too far removed from a conversation I had with a friend of mine who insisted that the people who have sold us out will be swinging from the very poles we may be hung on once they are no longer useful.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:25 | 2034112 economics1996
economics1996's picture


Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:36 | 2034499 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' … In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'


Like it has been said many times before, especially over the last 3 years.......nothing but a cascade waterfall to taking society and the markets down.  Normalcy Bias is a bitch....



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:33 | 2034594 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

outsourcing and offshoring produced profits for multinational corporations

well all those profits are gone and stocks are not generating enough profit for 401k and IRA


old middle class won't be retiring comfortably, so more and more will leave USA to cheaper locations

young middle class don't have jobs, so more and more will leave USA to cheaper locations


current saying now is taxpayers and workers, "don't ask what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you"

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:46 | 2034606 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

This morning I woke up to Larry Kudlow telling me who to vote for and 'Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity!'

The quasi-monopoly is spinning out of control. Before the 2012 election completes, J6P will see thru the deception of global socialism disguised as capitalism. Now a days, ism's overlap.

Have a quick look --->>    Axial Division of Labour

You may want to read a book called 'The System of the World, by Neal Stephenson.'

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:57 | 2034616 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

The people will put up with a lot more than this before they finally lose it...

This has got a long way to run yet.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:05 | 2034673 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

as long as there is food stamps and TV, people will put up with anything.


smart ambitious people are another story. Some are already leaving or have left.





Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:27 | 2034690 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Where would we be today if Paul Revere got out of dodge? Or Andrew Jackson? Yes, be self sufficient, have tangible assets, get out of the paper scheme, but don't puss out now. I won't be flocking to any major cities, but if freedom falls in the US then we're all slaves in the actual sense of the word, as opposed to just debt slaves. Not on my watch.

For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:51 | 2034710 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

If the British had GPS tracking, how far do you think Paul Revere would have gotten? How well would Andy Jaxs done against a Predator drone or the local constable riding in an APC with a squad of body-armed troopers armed with assault rifles? How are you going to stop the full might and anger of the US military, tough guy?

By the way something, what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? It porofits a man the WHOLE WORLD.

On the same note, all of them want to go to heaven but none of them want to die.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 04:47 | 2034764 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

Which is exactly why Celente was correct in forecasting the "cyber-war" trend.  Hardware is only as good as the software enabling it.  This is where outfits such as Lulzsec and Anonymous help the fight....


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:17 | 2034776 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

"This is where outfits such as Lulzsec and Anonymous help the fight...."


You may never know who is who.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:29 | 2034832 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

Agreed, but it's the same situation that's always been present in times of conflict.  Technology surely was much different during the US Revolution as well as many other prior incidences of war, revolution, and conflict, but the principles behind counter-intelligence / under-cover operatives will still remain the same.  People will soon find their place amongst this grand scheme whether they're ready or not....



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:30 | 2034789 macholatte
macholatte's picture

a little help please:

somewhere I saw a picture that I'd like to get a copy of. It was a street scene with a bunch of people standing around looking a a platoon of Star Wars troops (the guys in the white plastic outfits) parading down the sidewalk and the caption read: Did you think it would be this obvious?

please past a link if you know of this picture.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:02 | 2034888 Silver Alert
Thu, 01/05/2012 - 13:56 | 2036088 macholatte
macholatte's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 09:51 | 2035096 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

It profits the whole world, which is nothing to him in a 100 years. None of us are getting out alive. Might as well give your life some meaning.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:12 | 2034774 Michael
Michael's picture

The Capitol of the United States of America should be a place that is most revered and admired throughout our great land. After all, it belongs to us.

But in recent years our Capitol in Washington D.C. has become a place that is most reviled by 91% of the people. With a congressional approval rating of 9%, I would say the entire country is reviled by what is in D.C.. 

Congress Critter Recycling Mania.

Till we get some good ones in there.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:27 | 2034786 Michael
Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:19 | 2034821 Michael
Michael's picture


Creepy Rick Santorum Takes Dead Offspring Home to Show Children

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:39 | 2034930 _underscore
_underscore's picture

..and where, pray,  do they really go in this globliased world?  Much as I agree with the sentiment of the interviewee & many of his predictions, where is this Shangri-la place where you're free to operate & live as you were (or thought you were) before? This notion of national 'firewalls' is like imagining ocean pollution won't wash up on your beach, sometime.

Does he really really think that an America, as he describes or foretells if it came about, wouldn't have had such co-causal effects over the whole planet that ANY place would be as bad - or on the same continuum to be becoming a  bad place?

Does he really think foreign governments would welcome, with open arms, fleeing regugees (even if they had a pound or two of gold..)? Check out the checks & constraints that were placed on German nationals fleeing Nazi Germany when they went to Uk, USA, Switzerland etc.

I do think you can make preparations though, in your own country, in your own county, in your own town - in your own house & with your own lifestyle - in your own head.

Maybe the super-rich & super-connected could make their escape pod as described in the piece - just count the number of privately owned (defensible) small islands in the Caribbean for example. But for the average Joe (or even the slightly more than average Joe) thinking like this is more hindrance than help, in my humble opinion.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:59 | 2034622 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

free market capitalism is best for those who have obtained capital without having to pay his/her dues in labor time.....inheritance.


yes we obtain financial and material prosperity....but at what long term cost?


Just ask any young wall st banker if the six figure bonus is worth not having a life.


Super competition has created conditions where only psychopaths will thrive. no morals, no family, no friends, no heart, no for gaining more money for the sake of keeping score.


Europe is socialist not because they are lazy, but they know what the realities of capitalism's promises are after experiencing 2 world wars.


America is about to learn her lessons soon like a spoiled child.



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:32 | 2034649 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

ONE QUESTION:  Does the palace I apparently own as Prince of Nigeria count as a non-repatriable asset?

(I also have large bank accounts all over the world at my disposal upon the mere provision of my Social Security number... AND an unlimited supply of Viagra... so I guess I'm set for SHTF)


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:40 | 2034703 object_orient
object_orient's picture

I was thinking about the "internationalize your assets" thing. So, I bury my Spam in Canada and Mexico?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 04:25 | 2034759 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Both of you... just send me your bank info and quit fucking around.


Aljafj of Nigeria

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:05 | 2034806 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

AldousHuxley  -  it is monopoly and privilege that creates psychopaths

Competition is the great leveller of all the worst aspects of human ego or mental delusion

you don't see the worst of humanity in a free market... you see it in Govt, in monopolies that hang off Govt like the Fed, MIC, UN, enviromentalism and in privileged circles like Ivy League

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 08:07 | 2034961 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ummmm, maybe because those are the apex of the competition processes that happen in a US citizen society?

US citizens and their old propaganda. Competition was characterized in the 1900s.

If you want to add to the pool, please feel free. But if it is to rehash the same old propaganda...

Oh sorry, you are a US citizen, so you cant do.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 09:57 | 2035112 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

He's talking real competition not jumping through hoops like a good little doggy.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 09:46 | 2035086 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Nailed it!


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:23 | 2034644 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

People not familiar with Upton Sinclair should take a moment or a few to do so.

Same goes for Lindburgh (Father and Son) and the amazing Congressman McFadden.

It goes way back...



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:02 | 2034772 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Upton and Rachel Carson would have had beautiful, Madison Avenue children....

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:28 | 2034118 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Hitler's night of the long knives comes to mind..  All dictators kill the useful idiots once power has been consolidated cannot have them used by someone else.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:00 | 2034166 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Or it could be smoother than that. Here is an interesting read.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:39 | 2034397 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

No man escapes when freedom fails,

All good men rot in filthy jails,

and those that cried 'Appease, Appease!',

are hung by those they tried to please.    - Anon.


On a side note, Uruguay is looking better and better...

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:06 | 2034446 flacon
flacon's picture

I escaped back in 2009 after I woke myself up and discovered for the first time "debt money" and "fractional reserve banking".



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:21 | 2034575 clymer
Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:04 | 2036824 theman
theman's picture

Nice post Clymer, thank you.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:10 | 2034625 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Flacon, I escaped back in 2001 when I first realised that we were all in debt, and had to be that way if we in the West were ever to be wealthy.

Now I live overseas where the climate is warm, the people are friendly and many races live peacefully side by side. There's no capital gains tax and I have an exemption from income tax because I am a foreigner; I live in a Muslim country. Can you imagine that? I keep my assets in Trust, in bullion and in other countries so I and my family can be up and ready to move in just a few hours if it all goes south. I enjoy a fabulous lifestyle because of the low or no tax position or alternatively I could go fight for a country that wants to tax me 50% on my income, to devalue all of my assets in paper and then tax me on that as well so that I can be financially abused and live in a small house. Go figure...

Wake me up when the punch up's finished and I'll let you know if I'm prepared to bring my capital back and invest it. For now, fuck 'em...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:23 | 2034914 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> I'm prepared to bring my capital back and invest it.

Please, stay where you are.  It's shitbags like yourself that got us into this mess. 

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:41 | 2034931 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Perhaps you could explain how?

for our collective benefit of course...


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:36 | 2034916 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Malaysia? I'm considering moving there too.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 14:03 | 2034937 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I hear it's a nice place...

Closest you can get to heaven without dying I'm told...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:28 | 2034787 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Any suggestions on location? I just received the full set of pimsleur discs for German and Spanish in preps for a certain region in "the south," but am always open to good ideas...

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:30 | 2034127 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

McCain wouldn't be sent to Gitmo since he's too much the useful idiot.

More to your point, people should read about the French Revolution. It is instructive how the Revolution consumed many of it's leaders using the methods devised by those very same former leaders. Not that I want anything resembling the mob rule exhibited by the French to ever happen here, but it would be sort of neat to have each succeeding president make former presidents disappear. Maybe former congressmen and senators, too, as it would save a bundle on retirement costs. (Just kidding, Ms. Napolitano!)

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:42 | 2034151 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

RELAX everyone! Don't panic,,,,,it is best to panic early if your going to however,,,,,,

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:51 | 2034175 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

This is a great show from History Channel about the French Revolution.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 03:48 | 2034745 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Thanks for the link Conrad! It was a well done show, and some of that history I didn't know.

But there is always something that bothers me about History Channel depictions. I'm not sure I can put my finger on it, but I always get the feeling that the intent of their histories is much like those I received in public school: a series of facts and circumstances, names and dates, but precious little in the way of connecting the history to current times - the very purpose of learning history. It is almost as if the historical accounting is meant to sever any linkage to modern times by encapsulating it in some particular place and time, even though most of the things people fight for are eternal and ultimately life and death battles and have been since the beginning. All the historians kept bemoaning all the bloodshed as if it didn't have any point, when it absolutely, positively had a point. One that elites still fear today. And they should.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:18 | 2038084 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

What's more, there is the usual slant in what little context is provided.  I have just learned in that otherwise interesting show that deregulation caused a huge increase in the price of wheat, which in turn resulted in food shortages.  So the French Revolution was all the fault of deregulation, I guess, and higher prices mean less supply and more demand, hmmm.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:53 | 2038207 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Yes. What I really got out of the history was that starving people can do some crazy shit. You think that point is lost on our current government?

We have 50 million people on food stamps, fully 1/6th of the population? If those cards stop working, I give this country 1 (one) week.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:43 | 2034406 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Bro-heme, it was not the French Revolution that was the worst part, but the reign of terror that followed. We are nothing like them as we lack our Robespierre also known as 'The Uncorruptable' one... And who would be our Jacobins?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:12 | 2034564 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

You'll be surprised by what crawls out from under the rocks once TSHTF. All the usual types. Might be one myself. Time will tell.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:26 | 2037804 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

It's not such a stretch ... You have the Prez & his NSC functioning as a Committee for Public Safety, aided by DHS and empowered by the Patriot Act and the NDAA. Not a stretch at all.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:27 | 2034487 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I think the VC turned McCain back in Hanoi, he's been a sleeper this entire time, just waiting for the opportunity to fuck our constitution in the ass.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:27 | 2034488 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"may your weapons be words...and nothing more."

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:58 | 2034198 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Your 100% correct, they will swing.  And thats because they are useful idiots.  The ones that want this police state for the elite will use people like that to do their bidding, and once the police state is in full swing they get rid of them.  Because they don't want these same individuals being used against them.  If they where corruptable for them, they could be corruptable to another group.  A police state feeds on itself (Hitler's night of a thousand knifes).  It has to get rid of any and all competition to itself.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:18 | 2034472 JoBob
JoBob's picture

It is "you're correct" or "you are correct", not "your correct". The plural of knife is knives.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:53 | 2034527 Isotope
Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:08 | 2034556 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Godwin's Law invocation?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:09 | 2034557 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

jobob...i got mean like you're a fucking asshole and you are a fucking i learnt me somthing

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:30 | 2034587 akak
akak's picture

It is "learned", not "learnt".

Or am I confust?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:48 | 2034662 323
323's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 07:29 | 2034920 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

does every bit of sarcasim have to b splained to yu

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:12 | 2034340 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Hopefully, your friend is Chairman of the JCS.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:49 | 2034124 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

ROFL. Hedgetard  = another right-wing wacko who has no grasp on reality.

The GOP is clearly the driving force behind the Police State.  The "USA Patriot Act" was designed by a GOP president.  62 Democratic House members voted against it, but only 3 Republicans voted against it.  10 senators voted against the renewal of the act in 2006, all Democrat.  Not a single Republican voted against it. 

We spend more on our military than the rest of the world, combined.  $1050 billion/year, counting the VA, the "Department of Homeland Security", the NSA, etc. - this is the majority of discretionary spending.  You know as well as I do that it's the GOP who pushes the hardest for more defense spending, and more spending on undercover "security" federal employees.  The US prison incarceration rate is the world's highest, 8X the world average.  The Police State is here, all right, but it's the GOP who's pushing it.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:55 | 2034187 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You are half right, just like those who blame the Democrats for the police state.  The obvious truth is that both parties are equally to blame.  The red team and blue team bullshit is very effective, and it's doing us all in.  

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:29 | 2034263 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

There's little difference between the parties. It's one party masquerading as two. They both want deficit spending, they both want war with Iran, and they both want entitlements.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:00 | 2034318 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and romney and santorum place one and two in iowa.  clearly few are paying attention to the real matters at hand.  perhaps a slower build is still to paul's advantage but something needs to happen fairly soon.  

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:13 | 2034464 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

That's assuming an honest vote count....

Maybe every other Paul vote went to Santorum, after all they needed to count them in secrecy cause of anonymous.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:11 | 2034679 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

government has only one source of revenue growth....POWER. government agents, the politicians, thus naturally want ever more expansion of powers. both democrats and republicans.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:36 | 2034393 data_monkey
data_monkey's picture

They both want us arguing with one another to distract us from their real motives.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:57 | 2034191 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

You are a vile individual. I will take great pleasure watching brain-dead partisan hacks like you swing lifelessly in the wind.

Joe Biden, not exactly a right wing GOP guy, is the man behind the PATRIOT Act. Start here:

There is no difference between the parties. They both promote Statism. Please die.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:20 | 2034252 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I agree with you about the two party system, but let's not throw out our Democracy because it has been corrupted by oligarchs.  Guns can be used by corrupt men to enslave others.  Shall we outlaw guns?  Of course not.  It is the corrupt men, not the guns, that must be taken away.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:51 | 2034280 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I agree, throw it out of the window instead, because a *pure* representative democracy, beats it's own purpose (yeah, yeah, i know - the USA is a republic. Not the point.)

Why? Really easy: Why would one want elected representatives decide about policies in-place of oneself? Well, because not every citizen has the time to simultaneusly organize the country. Also, *theoretically*, such representatives could be more experienced than the majority of citizens. Plus, MANDATORY voting on EVERYTHING would be a nightmare.

Okay, all good reason.... but here is the killer-question: If those representatives are NOT doing a good job for a given policy (may even just be a single but important law), then how do you fix them not representing the demographic?

If your answer is "impeaching them and electing someone else", then i have to say: besides of this not being feasible whenever the elected decide a single law against the population, the problem is you're still just electing PERSONS, not electing POLICIES!!!!!!!

Representatives shouldn't decide FOR the population. They should simply design policies, under the condition that the populace does not reject them! This is not the same as full-blown direct democracy or anarchy. It's a dual system - a hybrid - of the supposed opposite polarities: Representatives design policies and sign them, but always under the condition, that the populace does not override them. Thus, people only need to engage in direct democracy and selfgovernance when they're pissed. Basically, an optional kind of selfgovernance, that kicks in whenever the populace decides to do stuff itself (which it could do as often as it wants to - thus, if it had the will as well as the skill, yes it could go for "we'll do everything ourselves".... it's just not mandatory, that is all).

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:45 | 2034411 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Mandatory voting on everything is possible.  In fact, we do it every day - with our wallets.

Your post implies laws will continue to be passed apace, which under a truly free society is not the case.  Laws against fraud and aggression are the only laws worth passing and enforcing.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:04 | 2034434 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Even our voting with our wallets, is based on how full our wallets are, as well as what we are offered to buy.

Part of the point of my above post - which i probably did not make clear enough - is the ability of the population, to if neccessary override the "sellers". Not just in terms of "selecting from a pool decided by the sellers", but if neccessary and popular enough, by offering alternative "products" for buying (voting) on.

Another question: How do you vote with your wallet, on issues that aren't buyable in stores.... like personal freedoms?

And another question: How does your wallet override an accumulated concentration of wealth? Not at all maybe?

"Free markets" are good for a lot of things...... actually, quite probably 75% of stuff. And there are also aspects, where mere advocation of "free markets will fix everything" has nothing to do with reason nor logic, but plain mental lazyness, of not considering any quantity of ideological anchor-points, that is higher than the number 1.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:19 | 2034476 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Completely disagree with you equating the free market with laziness.  If anything, the free market is the opposite of laziness because it empowers individuals to pursue their own ends free of (mandatory) safety nets and other government-sponsored market distortions.  The last part of sentence #2 was redundant, but I digress.

Voting with your wallet is NOT based on how full your wallet is, either.  Here you are thinking within the current paradigm where consumption = propserity.  What power do sellers have over a population who refuses to buy?  None.  The natural state of humanity is to cooperate in pursuit of goals - hell, even folks with conflicting interests are forced to cooperate in a free market.  Even rented skis at a crowded ski slope?  The people behind the counter don't want you in there any longer than you want to be in that place renting skis.  Time lapse represents profit loss for both parties, even though they are of conflicting origins: the ski slope wants your $$$, and you want to maximize your time in the snow.  Both parties must cooperate in order to achieve their objectives.

Personal freedoms aren't "voted" upon, either.  They're inherent - at least they should be - with each individual.  That you ask this question suggests (again) you are stuck in the current paradigm.  You do NOT get your rights from the government.....but they'd sure as hell love you to think that.  And hey!  They'd love to have someone "represent" you in oder to "vote" for your freedoms.  That whole chrarade is reduced to rubble with a few simple questions.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:46 | 2034507 Rynak
Rynak's picture


Completely disagree with you equating the free market with laziness. 

I did not. I equated assuming the free market as a single maxime, that will fix everything and the world, as mentally lazy. That does not make free market principles less useful in a lot of cases, and it does not make the participants lazy in the many cases where it it is efficient. It just makes ABSOLUTISTS mentally lazy. And i totally stay in for that statement, and am ready to prove the free market principles and premises, relying on something else, if requested. Actually, i've done it a dozen times here, and it's getting rather boring.

Voting with your wallet is NOT based on how full your wallet is, either.  Here you are thinking within the current paradigm where consumption = propserity.  What power do sellers have over a population who refuses to buy?  None. for example, the implied premise of that above argument: That there are no existencial needs, and no way of extortion. Are you kidding me???

The natural state of humanity is to cooperate in pursuit of goals - hell, even folks with conflicting interests are forced to cooperate in a free market.

NO, THEY ARE NOT. No one is forced to do ANYTHING, if he does not consider midterm and longterm survival. Don't tell me current human culture (NOT human DNA!!!!) has not showed abundantly, that situatiosn can happen (and actually be engineeered) where humans totally discard midterm, longterm, midscale and bigscale thinking?

Personal freedoms aren't "voted" upon, either.  They're inherent - at least they should be - with each individual.  That you ask this question suggests (again) you are stuck in the current paradigm.  You do NOT get your rights from the government.....but they'd sure as hell love you to think that.  And hey!  They'd love to have someone "represent" you in oder to "vote" for your freedoms. 

That's some fancy rethorics, but you haven't actually logically consistently explained the reasoning behind your above mud-slinging. Why and HOW is that so? And no, i will not braindeadly like a zombie accept an "it should be so, so it has to be so"-argument. Why is it IMPOSSIBLE for someone having aquired enough influence, to restrict one's own liberty? WHY IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THINGS IMPOSSIBLE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS HAPPENING RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES?

If it IS possible, how do you encourange a resistance against it? And please don't tell me "magic" aka "if we only wish for it, i'm sure it's gonna happen by chance".

TBH, at this point, i'm not even sure if there is any point to replying. From your phrasing and arguments, it looks like i'm up against just like anarchist #89503495023489043809432 that simply bases an OUTCOME, on "the wish will probably become true, if we only allow random/arbitrary decision".

It's like one of those left-wing vs. right-wing debates.... no point in doing it, except of self-masturbation.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:23 | 2034578 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

The most obvious failure of market-driven decision-making can be seen in how we use our "wallets" to influence elections, practically without bound, with the end result represented by the quagmire before you now.

If Ron Paul wasn't so gung-ho about deregulation, he might actually be able to get elected!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:16 | 2034686 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

playing politics is all about lying to majority while you have pander to minority special interests who will share benefit of your power grab. That's why republicans raise taxes, and democrats bailout corporations.


only one way truth teller like ron paul can win elections.....educated voters...but that takes years of cultural shift.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:18 | 2034570 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

When it comes to Freedom, you vote with a lead ballot. Either that, or the statists take it from you. Everywhere and always. 

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:24 | 2034580 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Please use yours on the only person in the voting booth when you vote.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:28 | 2034584 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Haven't been in one for years. Unlike you, I know a scam when I see one.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:18 | 2034688 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

if you really want to change the system, don't vote, run for an office.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:42 | 2034796 Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

I would, if I could convince an investment bank to donate enough capaign funds.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:51 | 2034709 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Casey is off by several decades.  The US ceased to be a Republic when the TPTB took control of Federal State coming out of  the Civil War, and the Department of State began to transform into the overseas representatives of America, Inc.  The US would have loved to remove Spain from the western hemisphere prior to the Spanish American War, but the preparations took time and actually began during the Ten Years War in Cuba.  Expansionist and interventionalist foreign policy didn't kick off with John Foster (Dulles's Grandpa) or Gresham and Olney, the expansionist path of the Monied interests was sealed with Seward (and his folly) and Fish (that forgotten attempt to annex the Dominican Republic comes to mind).  State Department cables from the latter half of the 19th century read just like the Wikileaks crap of the 21st, the authors just had a better command of the English language.  Morning coffee time...

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:22 | 2034481 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

I'll willingly throw out democracy.  

Guns can be used to enslave others, true, but the ballot box is a much more sinister master.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:21 | 2034576 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

<rolls eyes>

North Korea for your 'International Man' it is then? I hear they got a new dictator recently, maybe he's benevolent. Let us know how it works out. Bonne chance!

As far as 'democracy' goes: we still need to try it somewhere before we can draw the conclusion that 'it can never work'.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:11 | 2034773 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

The Greeks used to have democracy.  That's why the Constitution laid out a Republic.

Problem now is there's a thin film of democracy over a Corporatist Fascist dictatorship, and none of the jack-offs in those big marble buildings run it.

There's only four ways to change a government:  non-participation by the majority (fat chance with 50%+ on the dole), the ballot box (AKA Diebold), the jury box (how's that working, with all the "precedents"), and the cartridge box.

What's going to happen?  I don't know, but it's gonna be ugly.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 11:33 | 2035434 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Ok, but republics don't "throw out" democracy with the bathwater,  they simply use a constitution or the like to protect the individual from the masses.

Eg.That veneer of 'democracy' you refer to: would you say things would be better or worse if it was more than just the facade you see?

The likely answer to that question was at the heart of why I was giving the gears to fancymcpantsy.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:37 | 2034856 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Same goes for communism, for that matter. Only the (convenient to the would-be dictators-by-committee) bits about 'all property is theft' and central-planning have ever been done; which isn't to say that I think it would work (or at least work WELL) if it were done 'properly' and according to the book, cos human nature gets in the way, just like with any other attempted form of 'government'.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:22 | 2034781 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"I'll willingly throw out democracy."

Sorry, you have to flesh this out - are you a convinced anti-democrat or just without a clue about political terms?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:06 | 2034212 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

People do not remember the timeline of the Patriot Act and the Anthrax attacks. 

10/3/2001 "Senate Majority Leader and future anthrax target Tom Daschle (D) says he doubts the Senate will take up this bill in the one week timetable the administration wants. As head of the Senate, Daschle has great power to block or slow passage of the bill."

"On October 4, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman and future anthrax target Patrick Leahy (D) accuses the Bush administration of reneging on an agreement on the anti-terrorist bill. Leahy is in a key position to block or slow the bill."

The anthrax letters to Daschle and Leahy are sent out on October 9th 2001.

"Republican Congressman Ron Paul states: “It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote—at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote.” It is later found that only two copies of the bill were made available in the hours before its passage, and most House members admit they voted for the Act without actually reading it first."





Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:15 | 2034468 samsara
samsara's picture

Some remember ;-)

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 10:09 | 2035147 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

And Ivins very kindly offed himself. Man, oh man. If the devil asks if you'd like to dance, politely decline.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 10:30 | 2035238 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

So Pelosi was right!  You do have to pass those bills before you can fiind out what's in them!



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:29 | 2034788 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

You STILL don't get it, do you?  Would you even qualify as a "useless" idiot, nevermind a "useful" one.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:46 | 2034793 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

NDAA was a collaborative event, moron. I can't believe idiots still want to argue demon vs rethug when they're clearly both working together and against US.

Must be a slow night at rawstory, eh?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:33 | 2034133 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

If he did use the power it would only be with the deepest regret, and I bet HRC would be the first to go.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:40 | 2034147 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

I don't think Mccain and the republicans are on the enemies list  -they're more like co-conspirators. Ron Paul and his entire family better watch their backs.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:43 | 2034153 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

What would stop some US Army General from declaring a reelected Obama or an elected Republican a terrorist and sending them to an internment camp for political prisoners? A Military coup d'état is not out of the question with NDAA now the law of the land.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:59 | 2034312 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Not possible as they do not have the legal authority,but nothing is stopping them from shutting DC down, and allowing Americans to clean out the terrorists running the place.

Truthfully, there are more guilty in D.C. than likely in the rest of the USA combined.

When you stack their actions against their oaths, and breaking them,most deserve prison now.

The true guilty are mostly THERE.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:19 | 2034475 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

NDAA has eliminated legal authority. The person with the biggest gun wins. US Army Generals have all the big guns. All it's going to take is one General with large balls and we become a military dictatorship.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:25 | 2034485 DosZap
DosZap's picture


I say you could be correct,but there's more reason for you not to be.

Generals do not fight, they send others to die.

If the grunts decide to KEEP their sacred Oaths, the Generals are screwed,

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:59 | 2034885 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

I may be mis-interpreting the changes in US law over the past few years, I guess; but...

If I ain't, it seems to me that there's an unfortunate legal argument that the PTB can use to make most of those that swore an oath to the Constitution think a bit about whether their orders to do certain things are valid or not, even where they personally feel that said orders are immoral:

The Constitution has had many amendments to it over the years, plus legal adjuncts in the form of supplemental legislation that 'seek to better define the language' used in the original document. During all these changes there have been serving members of the armed forces and other governmental agencies that had taken an oath to uphold and defend the previous version of the document. They have not been required to re-swear their oaths because an amendment to the constitution was made, or because supplemental legislation was passed. What makes this time different?

It's a spurious argument to a degree, I admit. But it may sway a large number of people who have taken the Oath to decide that it has merit. Comes down to a personal decision.

You could also make the argument that anyone who stubbornly says, "I swore to defend the Constitution, not a bunch of bullshit fascist laws" is also shooting him/herself in the foot. A superior could use the argument that the oath is to the Constitution in it's original form (which in a strictly linguistic sense, it is!) and therefore doesn't include any of the amendments. Therefore, there is no obligation to allow free speech, the right to bear arms, etc... and thus no grounds for objecting to any supplemental legislation that infringe upon the amendments that grant these freedoms.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 15:11 | 2036320 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

If there was a military coup, maybe the army would point us at something we could put our shoulders against and push. I'd sooner put my faith in a military dictatorship than what I see coming down the pike.  Who gets to be the Jew this time?  

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:08 | 2034451 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

You mean ALL those Republicans Senators and Congressional slime that voted for the NDAA? Quit listening to Rush, Hannity, and the other reich wing slime. BOTH parties are part of the fascist takeover. Wake up.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:28 | 2034696 Mr Vepr Vyatskie
Mr Vepr Vyatskie's picture

Hedgetard...dude! It's so good seeing, once again, another reminder of the stark contrasts between the two parties. I find it equally refreshing and informative to see someone point out the inevitable conclusion this path is leading to in this war between the Good Republisaints and the Bad Demoncrats.

I mean, dude, Mitt Romney vs. Barack Hussein Obama. Talk about polar opposites! Word UP!!

And Senator (Capital"L"for Liberty) John McCain sounding out the battle cry from Guantanano Bay!

I see an inspirational novel in the works, at least an online short story!

McCain's call to arms leads to an uprising among the rock-solid constitution-loving conservatives (i.e. the Tea Party).

Other stuff happens (this is where you come in)

And then finally, when all hope seems lost, at the last minute, our greatest ally God's Chosen People Israel come barreling thru the ocean with a fleet of ships

and soldiers of freedom . Have like the lead ship be called something like The U.S.S Liberty or something like that to represent their loyalty and gratitude for 

America's friendship all these years, and their dedication to our success and well being and way of life.



Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:16 | 2034091 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Lets hope McCain knows something and just refuses to tell, like for example why he authored NDAA?   Get out the water and the board, Johnny we are gonna have a chat..

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:22 | 2034691 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

you really want to ask a morality question to a man who ditched his faithful wife because she got in a car accident and inlaws didn't have the money for plastic surgery nor financing his political career?


Cindy McCain distributes beer....some would liken that to be a drug distributor.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 05:55 | 2034802 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 09:57 | 2035113 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Your right, I'm busted I just wanted to waterboard him for NDAA and his traitorous attacks on our Constitution.. I probably would have asked him what color is the sky or some such nonsense.  Sorry, should have been honest from the start, hangs head...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 03:00 | 2034721 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

McCain authored it because he's a sociopath. A loathsome, dishonorable man, directly responsible for the deaths of 164 sailors aboard the USS Forresttal in 1967; refered to as the "Hanoi Songbird" by his fellow POWs in North Viet Nam; caught up in bribery during the S&L/Charles Keating scandal in the late 80s. He is quite possibly the most despicable man to have ever "served" in the United States Senate. And to think we could have had that creature as thankful.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 15:13 | 2036338 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Cold comfort there. 

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:20 | 2034101 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Costa Rica seems like a nice second home to me.

Lots of fresh food, friendly people, and beautiful oceanfront property.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:38 | 2034140 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

My brother is looking at Chile. I may follow him  -if I can escape.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:10 | 2034225 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

What about Canada?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:27 | 2034371 akak
akak's picture

Yes, get out of Canada ASAP too.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:10 | 2034226 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

What about Canada?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:27 | 2034373 akak
akak's picture

Yes, get out of Canada ASAP too.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:10 | 2034227 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

What about Canada?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:28 | 2034374 akak
akak's picture

Yes, get out of Canada ASAP too.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:30 | 2034590 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 15:17 | 2036352 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You could go through Canada on your way to somewhere else.  Maybe the border guards are not so alert and you can smuggle your PMs out.  There were many places where the checkpoint wasn't even manned and they used the honor system.  I don't know if that is still the case.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:01 | 2034204 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

For now.

If shit really goes South in a bad way, I just don't think anyplace is going to be a Utopian Island.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 00:06 | 2034553 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Kiwiland.  And it happens to be an actual island.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:55 | 2034666 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

unfortunately in process of dissolving, due to repeated seismic activity....Scroogle(never GOOGLE) Christchurch residents flee

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 03:58 | 2034746 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture


No tracking

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:02 | 2034207 Beard of Zeus
Beard of Zeus's picture


Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:08 | 2034293 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Costa Rica is broke and You might as well tattoo a dollar sign to your forehead. Especially now that entitlements

Chile, it took a dictator and a bloody revolution to convert the country back to capitalism. After that, they had leftist governments for 20 years. BTW They also just signed a bilateral agreement with the US for sharing tax and bank information.

Canada is our friendly neighbor to the North. Friendly to the US government that is.

China nice for American unless we go into a trade, currency or actual war.

If you want freedom or whatever, stand your ground because there is nowhere else to go. Take my word for it. Sucks to be a foreigner if the SHTF. BTW the US is FAR from becoming a third world country. The Grass is not always greener on the other side.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:26 | 2034370 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

Casey likes Argentina, eh? Will he like it when they declare war on Britain agian and try and retake the Malvinas / Falkland Islands? Will he love living with a debased, devalued hyperinflation currency which he claims to be fleeing here in America's future?

Maybe he is in a big hacienda out on the pampas where the hordes starving in the barrios can't get to him.

I'll take my chances in the uppa U S.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2034399 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Less than an hour to Uraguay dude.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:24 | 2034692 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Americans finding out what other countries do with immigration.


They don't sellout their own citizens like America does with jobs, land, benefits, etc.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:46 | 2034708 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

yeah no thanks.  i don't want to be the conspicuous gringo asshole down the street when the shit hits the fan

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2034400 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Less than an hour to Uraguay dude.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:05 | 2034442 grgy
grgy's picture

I don't think he gives a shit what you think.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 06:27 | 2034837 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

FEMA camps, aerial spraying, GMO crops, western winds bringing any radioactive contaminants from the East, growing militarization against her own citizens, prior repeated lockdown of citizens, predator drones on the loose, devalued and hyerinflated currency, etc. You can have it. I didn't sign up for this shit.

Oh and Argentina is primarily white and has a rebounding economy. Rebounding from an economic collapse that has happened In the recent past, so their likely prepared and experienced for the next SHTF-shall we say trained? And the reference RE: falklands is laughable at best-repercussions from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, soon to be central Africa, china/Russia?

But I'm sure you'll feel more at peace in surroundings you're familiar with. That is, until the hungry, greedy, self-entitled wolves start showing up
wanting to know how you're gonna help them.

Don't say you were not warned.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 14:19 | 2036134 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Made my day.

I didn't sign up for this shit.

Yup, slavery is volunteered. (Roland Kirk: Volunteered Slavery Live in Bologna -5:33 on)

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 16:58 | 2044869 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Will he love living with a debased, devalued hyperinflation currency which he claims to be fleeing here in America's future?"

Erm, obviously you don't know much about Casey or Argentina. Eg. how does gold do in your outlined scenario? Does arable land become instantly desolate?

But seriously, I sincerely wish you luck.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:57 | 2034303 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

I just started looking into Costa Rica myself.  I would make a great bartender there.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:07 | 2034331 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Buddy, if You are young, absolutely go for it. You will have a blast.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 22:43 | 2034407 Manthong
Manthong's picture

There are some nice listings in Somalia.


-       Since almost everyone there is an acknowledged criminal.. there is no pretense or duplicity like in the U.S.

-       There is a lucrative, thriving ship storage industry there.

-       Government regulation is lax as there is virtually no government.

-       There is no income tax because there is no government to speak of.

-       Somalis are polite except if they are attacking you but unlike in the US you are free to keep and bear arms and to defend yourself - Most often with full auto AK-47’s and RPG’s.

-       M2’s on the back of a pick-up are the fashion for the more ostentatious motorist.

-       Compliant females are bountiful and inexpensive if you do not mind a variety of STD’s.

-       Drugs are plentiful and inexpensive if you care for that kind of diversion.

-       Maybe it is a real hell hole, but at least it’s an honest one and the fight is fair and in the open.

-       Certainly less stress and more honesty there than in the market here.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:33 | 2034494 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I prefer the african country where dell and other corporate asshats dump off millions of trash pc's with peoples email addresses, and bank account information all over them then rails on and on about how dishonest the people are aouut digging the toxic pieces of shit ouf of the dump sites to avoid future health problems and paying for it by piecing the trash computers together and emailing the fuck out of clueless americans who had no idea where their computer ended up or why who's security involved a prejudice that it was dumped in a place by people to stupid to not take advantage of the gross negligence of them trying to get around toxic waste laws.

And then challenge myself by wrestling over this enormously complicated guilt problem. Sure that I could make proper response. I don't fucking care. Suck it.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:20 | 2034642 Manthong
Manthong's picture

That would be Ghana :  (@ 37:50)..

also recruiting ground for young rogue UBS traders that lose 10 figures.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 01:56 | 2034667 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I can see a walmart return.

1. Copy of teenbeat magainze.

Reason for return.

Purchased by young rougue trader.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:27 | 2034116 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

"You could make an argument, from a moral point of view, that things started heading downhill at the time of the Spanish-American War."


Thus, Ron Paul.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:34 | 2034135 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Lights, Camera..... Revolution (hat tip/ Viva Mike Muir of ST)


Wed, 01/04/2012 - 23:03 | 2034438 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Throughout all time and history
The world's been mauled tyranny
Now we're refusing to take it
The worst evil the world has saw
Were crimes defended by the "law"
Deny our rights and we'll break it
You got to break the chains that hold you down
Crush the tyrants to the groud
Freedom cannot be legislated
We'll bow down to no other one

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 20:37 | 2034139 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

So Lincoln suspending habeas corpus wasn't the start, just a warm-up act? It took a true progressive - Teddy Roosevelt - to start the downhill slide. Funny how he managed to contribute again by running as a Bull Moose, letting the next progressive, Woodrow Wilson, take the presidency in 1912. And we all know the wonderful things done by Wilson, don't we?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 02:45 | 2034707 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Lincoln laid the foundation for what we have now as he felt that it was better in the name of equality to have a system powerful enough to enslave everyone instead of a system that could only enslave some- and may every descendant of his soldiers groan under its weight and lash.

As a friendly thank you, your neighbors in the south have sent a very clever fellow by the name of Bernanke to our dear friends in the north, hope you enjoy him. We truly hope he improves the quality of your lives, bless your hearts.

We also thank you sophisticated,intelligent, enlightened, empathic folks in the northern urban areas for continuing to write checks to the terminally useless here. Being able to keep more of our own money to buy additional land, weapons, and ammo and donate to a small number of politicians willing to dump sand in your gears wherever possible is appreciated.  It is hoped that said sand can be extracted to some degree and collected in a pile, at which point you may collectively go pound it.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 21:41 | 2034286 Tedster
Tedster's picture

Remember the Maine, Bitchez!

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