This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Doug Casey: Is A US-Iran War Inevitable?

Tyler Durden's picture


Previously we presented some alternative thoughts to the mainstream misperception of the Iranian "isolation" by some of its biggest oil trading partners. Unlike others, we simply believe that the gulf nation, together with the new axis of anti-USD (as confirmed once again earlier today) is simply preparing itself for a barter based economy, or alternatively, one with commoditized intermediates. However, this ignores the likelihood of geopolitical instability caused by intervening US and Israeli interest in the region. Below are some thoughts from Doug Casey of Casey Research on the likelihood of another full blown shooting war erupting in the Persian Gulf, as well as his thoughts on how one may prepare for such a contingency.

Submitted by Louis James of Casey Research

Doug Casey: Is A US-Iran War Inevitable?

US-Iranian saber-rattling or impending shoot-out? In his usual, candid manner, contrarian investor Doug Casey talks about why he believes it's serious this time… why the US is the greatest threat to peace today… why Iran might move towards a gold standard… and what smart investors should do.

L: Doug-sama, I've heard you say you think the US is setting Iran up to be the next fall guy in the wag-the-dog show – do you think it could really come to open warfare?

Doug: Yes, I do. It could just be saber rattling during an election year, but Western powers have been provoking Iran for years now – two decades, really. I just saw another report proclaiming that Iran is likely to attack the US, which is about as absurd as the allegations Bush made about Iraq bombing the US, when he fomented that invasion. It's starting to look rather serious at this point, so I do think the odds favor actual fighting in the not-too-distant future.

L: Could they really be so stupid?

Doug: You know the answer to that one. We're dealing with criminal personalities on both sides, and criminals are basically very stupid – meaning they have an unwitting tendency to self-destruction. One thing to remember is that most of those in power in the West still believe the old economic fallacy that war is good for the economy.

L: The old broken-window fallacy. Paraphrasing Arlo Guthrie, it's hard to believe anyone could get away with making a mistake that dumb for that long.

Doug: People like those in power still suffer the delusion that it was World War II that ended the Great Depression for the US. Actually, it was only after the end of the war that the depression ended, in 1946. In his book World Economic Development: 1979 and Beyond, Herman Kahn documented long-term growth throughout the 20th century. Between 1914 to 1946 – a very tough time, with WWI, the Great Depression, and WWII – the world economy still grew at something like 1.8%. I believe real growth would have been several times as great, were it not for the state and its products. But people still believe that spending money on things that explode and kill and destroy is somehow good for the economy.

L: I suppose they think it's okay if it creates jobs here and destroys lives and livelihoods "over there." But aside from the fact that it's not safe to assume today's enemies are not capable of bringing the battle onto US soil, it still ignores the fact that you're spending money on stuff that gets destroyed – like broken windows – and that impoverishes us all. Worse, the cost is not just economic.

Doug: That's right. This coming war with Iran has the potential to turn into something resembling WWIII, with enormous consequences.

Now, it's hard to speak with any certainty on such matters, because most of what we have to go on are press reports. Governments keep most really critical facts on their doings to themselves, and what you read in the press is as likely as not just a warmed-over government press release – in other words, propaganda. Meaningless, if not actively deceptive. It is correctly said that in war, truth is the first casualty.

L: But we do have the Internet these days, with indie reporters offering coverage ignored by the talking heads in the mainstream media.

Doug: True; it doesn't keep the chattering classes honest, but it does provide some diversity of spin, from which we can try to infer what's really going on. And from all the various sources – mainstream and alternative, Western and from within the Muslim world – I have to say that it appears to me that the Iranians are not actually developing nuclear weapons.

L: Then why do they act in such aggressive and bombastic ways?

Doug: Western powers are pushing them around, telling them what they can and cannot do, and treating them like children or mental incompetents with no right of self-determination. How else would you expect them to react? They may have a collectivist theocratic regime, but it's also a proud and ancient culture.

Now, as you know, I don't think there should be any countries at all – not in the sense of the modern nation-state, and I'm certainly no fan of the Tehran regime, but Iran is a sovereign state. The Iranians resent people from other countries assuming the right to tell them what they can and cannot do with their uranium enrichment program, just as people in the US would if Iranians told them what to do with… well, anything.

L: Do you have specific data to substantiate your view that Iran is not focused on creating nuclear weapons?

Doug: I was just reading about an official report that says that Iran is still not able to enrich uranium to the level needed to make nuclear weapons.

Uranium occurs in two isotopes with half-lives long enough to make it possible to find reasonable amounts of them in the earth's crust: U235 and U238. Most of it is U238 – 99.3% – but it's the U235 that's fissile, meaning, it's the one you want for making nuclear reactors and weapons. So you have to enrich your uranium – to about 20%-30% U235 to make reactor fuel and 90% or better to make weapons.

L: That's why the Russians are able to sell "downblended" uranium from decommissioned nuclear weapons for use as reactor fuel. So, you're saying the reports indicate that Iran is not capable of enriching uranium beyond the level needed for reactors?

Doug: Yes. But again, I have to stress that reliable information is very hard to come by. Remember when the US accused Iraq of having a program to develop so-called weapons of mass destruction? Apart from the fact that, except for nuclear weapons, that term is a complete misnomer, they had no such thing. It was either lousy intelligence or outright fabrication – and I suspect the latter. So how can we trust what they tell us today? Only a fool would be so naïve.

L: Indeed.

Doug: In any event, why shouldn't Iran have nuclear weapons? I wish none of these countries had them, but they do. No one stopped China, no one stopped North Korea, Pakistan, Israel, India, France, nor any of the others in the disreputable club that have them.

L: Wasn't it too late to intervene by the time those countries announced their nuclear capabilities?

Doug: I don't think so. Israel was friendly, so Western powers looked the other way. North Korea was too rabid, so they were left alone. The other countries are too big. The cat's out of the bag at this point; any country can develop nuclear weapons, if it really wants to. But it's easier and cheaper to bribe a general – or maybe just a supply sergeant – in India, Pakistan, or Russia to get what you want.

Moreover, with the US on the rampage, prosecuting its counterproductive and unwinnable War on Terror, a lot of governments, especially ones unpopular in the West, have got to be thinking about acquiring nuclear capabilities. If Saddam had actually had nukes, the US would have left him alone, just as they've left the Kims to rot in the workers' paradise they've made out of North Korea. It makes sense for a country stricken from the US's official "nice" list and moved over to the "naughty" category to have some nukes. Everyone needs and wants a slingshot to keep the bully of the block at bay.

If you oppose nuclear proliferation, your first target should be US foreign policy, which is the biggest impetus behind the scramble to arms.

L: What about the argument that Iran would use nuclear weapons on Israel, if it had them?

Doug: That's ridiculous. It's true that just one or two nukes would turn most of Israel to glass, but it's a matter of mutually assured destruction (MAD), just as the détente between the US and USSR was. Israel is reported to have about 200 nuclear weapons, and the Iranians know it. Even if they launched a successful first strike against Israel, they would get wiped off the face of the earth in response. The regime in Iran is repressive and borderline lunatic, but they aren't that stupid. No way are they going to attack Israel with nukes. They not only cannot, but should not, be singled out for exclusion from the nuclear club.

L: But they're part of the axis of evil, don't you know?

Doug: Speaking of evil, it's evil to initiate the use of force or fraud. If Iran enriches uranium or even builds tools for war, that's not evil per se. But using force to stop them from doing something that is not in itself wrong is wrong, and that would make Iran's attackers the axis of evil.

In my mind, the US is the biggest threat to peace in the world today. I can easily imagine those in power in the US starting a war over any silly pretext, real or imagined. It could easily happen by accident at this point. Things go wrong. Maybe some young hotheads in Iran's Revolutionary Guard decide to take a boat out and attack a US frigate – launch a few RPGs at it before they're blown out of the water. Then the US feels it needs to mete out some punishment and launches a strike against the base the boat came from – which would be attacking the Iranian mainland – and the thing spins completely out of control. Could happen at the drop of a hat. Maybe the commander of a US ship has a streak of General Jack D. Ripper from Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove in him. Maybe the Russians or the Chinese – who are aiding the Iranians – mount a false-flag incident, because they want to see the US get involved in another tar baby.

L: So… another case of not just doing the wrong thing, but the exact opposite of the right thing, with economic, political, and ultimately physical world consequences.

Doug: That's right. Just look at what they're doing now, trying to isolate Iran from the world with an embargo. That could be seen as an act of war.

L: Well, wait a minute. A blockade is regarded as an act of war, but if Western countries decide to harm their own economies by not trading with Iran, that's unfriendly, but not force or fraud.

Doug: Well, it would be forcing citizens in those Western countries to pay higher prices for things, denying them the choice of buying oil from Iran if they wanted to. But I agree; that's more a matter of criminal tyranny and stupidity than an act of war. Still it sure is prodding Iran, throwing rocks at the hornets' nest, as the US did with Japan before WWII. The Japanese basically have no domestic oil production and were getting their oil from the US and the Dutch East Indies. The US cut off both supplies, backing them into a corner, leaving them little choice but an aggressive response.

At any rate, I think all of this could backfire on the US. Since the Iranians apparently can't clear deposits through New York, where international dollar trades clear, they've made a very commonsense move to cut the US out of the middle and sell their oil directly to India, without using dollars. I think other countries will follow – and then what? Iran isn't going to want bushels and bushels of rupiah or yen or whatever. I think the odds favor them turning to gold. It's said that's one of the means of payment the Indians will be using.

Gold is the logical choice and the next step in the demise of the US dollar as the world's reserve currency. There's a lot of demand for the dollar to buy and sell oil. If countries stop using it, demand for the dollar would fall, at the very time the US is greatly increasing the supply of dollars. The day is coming when trillions of dollars outside the US will only be spendable inside the US. At that point it's game over for the dollar.

L: You've talked about the world going back onto a gold standard before. What do you say to the people who say that gold is a barbaric relic from the past that doesn't work in a modern economy – they can't go around with pockets full of doubloons to buy cars or chests full of treasure to buy houses…

Doug: Such people are not thinking rationally and are economically ignorant. As always, we should start with a definition: what is money? The short answer is that it's a store of wealth and medium of exchange. For reasons we've discussed and as Aristotle outlined over 2,000 years ago, gold is simply the best form of money ever adopted. And in our modern world, you don't have to physically cart the stuff around. You can, but you can also transfer ownership of physical gold electronically, through services like

L: Note: We do endorse as a convenient and reliable way to own, trade, and transfer gold, but readers should be advised that Doug is an investor in it.

Doug: Right. I like to put my money where my mouth is.

L: Okay, so you see this trend being bullish for gold, clear enough. But most of the gold ever produced in the world still exists in purified form in various vaults around the planet. Gold doesn't get used up like silver does, so there's plenty of supply. So, would the physical need for gold as money really impact the price of gold and related equities, or would that be more a function of governments further debasing their currencies?

Doug: Well, it's estimated that there are some six billion ounces of refined gold in human possession around the world, or, somewhat less than one ounce per person. Global gold production is said to be about 80 million ounces a year, or about a 1.3% annual increase in the supply of gold. That would be the steady, "natural" rate of inflation if we were on a gold standard. The amount of various currency units in the world is increasing at a much, much faster pace than 1.3%. Nobody really knows, not even the Fed, but depending on how you define the money supply, it would take $10,000 to $50,000 – or more – per ounce to back all of the dollars in existence with gold. Whatever the correct number is, I expect gold's price in dollars to increase dramatically as the world moves closer to and eventually adopts a gold standard.

L: So, any investment implications beyond the obvious? Buy gold and silver for prudence and protection, buy gold stocks for speculative leverage?

Doug: That's the basic recipe. And diversify your holdings internationally. You can never tell when the government of your home country will have a psychotic break.

L: What do you say to the people afraid that in a world so traumatized as to go back onto a gold standard, the risk of owning any paper asset, including gold stocks, would be too high? No one will trade gold stocks for a can of dog food in a Mad Max world…

Doug: That's a valid concern. You can't eat paper, and even owning shares in a gold mine may not be of much use in a real economic cataclysm – the US government shut down gold mining during WWII as a nonessential industry. It could happen again. But that's why, as you said, we own gold for prudence, and the stocks are strictly speculative vehicles.

But let's have some perspective. The security of your stock portfolio may become the least of your concerns if the US starts a war with Iran that touches off WWIII. If that happens, the US government and population will both turn hysterical, and the whole country will be locked down like a prison. What was once America will become even more of a police state than it is now. Who knows where that would end?

So, one of the most intelligent things you can do is as I've been saying for years: diversify your assets and your physical presence internationally. Having some place you like to spend time off the beaten track, where you can ride the storm out, should be top priority for everyone who can afford it. Preparing for the worst at home should be top priority for those who can't.

L: Would you care to put odds on open war between the US and Iran?

Doug: I'd say it's highly probable within the next two to four years – say, between 50% and 75% – that an actual shooting war will break out.

L: Not much time to prepare. I sure hope all our readers are doing what they can.

Doug: Me too.

L: Right then. Thanks for your thoughts and guidance, Doug.

Doug: You're welcome. We'll talk again soon.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 02/15/2012 - 18:49 | 2163891 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

2-4 years? LOL dream on, this Iran war which kicks off WW3 is on deck within a few months max. All parties need it to get out of their debt box canyons, and keeping 3 battle groups in the region costs big bucks...theyre not just there to hang around for 4 years thats for sure.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:12 | 2163961 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Another former gubmint official on the Iran attack that could lead to WWIII:

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:39 | 2164193 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

"L: Then why do they act in such aggressive and bombastic ways?"

I would contest that it isn't Iran that's being aggressive and bombastic. MSM et al are demonizing the Iranian people. As an example, consider the article linked here, where Iran's words were reasonable. It started with an Iranian statement that they would continue to deliver oil to Europe but they needed a long term agreement and assurance they would be paid. This morphed into a falsified slap in your face announcement that Iran's nuclear program was making record time. Don't believe me? Click the link.

At this time, you can verify the claim by typing the original article title into a search engine. It will be packed with hits and the previews will match the first article. Now click a link and see the modified version. Voila. The propaganda machine at work in your very own home. 

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:01 | 2164271 john39
john39's picture

Judge Napalitano on the Iran War.  No surprise that his show didn't get renewed.  The surprise was that he was ever on a Fox network:

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:41 | 2164369 Michael
Michael's picture

I just hope when the US/Israel starts WW3, hundreds of millions of people die including lots of Americans and Israelies.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:36 | 2164552 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Nothing better for the oppressed to suffer the consequences of the oligarchs' actions. How about instead the oligarchs release mankind or die?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:25 | 2164979 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

No way is war inevitable.

If it was, Panetta would never have revealed the Israeli "plan" to hit Iran in April, May or June.

Simply, neither Israel nor America can afford a shooting war. Too many risks — like dragging in Russia or China or Pakistan. Too much debt. And they can merrily go about the covert war option instead, which costs less and carries fewer risks.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:32 | 2164991 xela2200
xela2200's picture

You will never make it as a politician. you still think in terms of costs, human lives and moral values instead of power and subjugation.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:32 | 2165064 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

not just "as a politician".  apparently as a "serious journalist" as well:

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:02 | 2164620 San Diego Gold Bug
San Diego Gold Bug's picture

You should be banned you fool.  Go hide under your little desk!  Hoping millions of people die??...where is the monitor on this site!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:12 | 2164630 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

Hundreds of millions is a bit excessive.

In actuality, only the millions (tens of millions?) who support the war deserve to die. 

Would reduce some of the congestion on the freeways and shorten my commutes, as well as rid the world of millions of assholes who are a total waste of oxygen.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:15 | 2165046 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

I struggle, and I mean struggle, with this daily.  I believe in only pure pacifism: love my neighbor, love my enemies, feed my enemies, cloth my enemies, loose my physical life to save my eternal soul, be a lover of peace, etc.  Yet my anger and hostility toward war mongers is so great I almost daily wish for their soon deaths. 

It's wrong to wish this, I know it is, yet it's tough to think the right way toward war mongers whose greatest desire is death and torture for millions of innocent human beings.  War mongers aren't just my enemies, they are enemies of the human race.

"Those who hate me love death." Proverbs









Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:55 | 2165083 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

"God has numbered the days of your reign and brings it to an end. Your possessions will be divided, and given away to others. You have been weighed on the scales, and found wanting." 

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:52 | 2164767 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

And by 'monitor' you mean 'censor'.

How non ZeroHedge of you.  You must be new around here...

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:03 | 2164787 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Patrick Henry thanks you

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:02 | 2164941 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Doug Casey: Is A US-Iran War Inevitable? f*ck off...

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2166527 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

what a bad spirit, you give TRUTH the BAD name!!

And you just insult the logic and senses of ZHers here by your futile falsification!

TRY HARDER Ghost Spirit!!!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:02 | 2164789 American34
American34's picture

Monitors!?!?! Are you for real this is ZH! We don't have monitors! The day ZH has monitors is the day ZH dies! Not to mention "YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT MONITORS!" is the first AND second rule.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:04 | 2164797 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Patrick Swayze thanks you (dancing is speech)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 13:16 | 2166255 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Vee don't need no stinking monitors......just cover your tender ears and tape a sheet of paper to your screen. There you go....all fixed.



Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:51 | 2165018 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The CIA and government financial spooks monitor this site first and foremost among internet sites. Anyone who comments on ZH is free to write their ticket into a FEMA rendition center.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:22 | 2165051 Michael
Michael's picture

The government employees who start rounding up American citizens will have to deal with 400 million civilian firearms aimed at them. There will be civilian snipers killing government employees by the thousands. I hope their government paychecks are worth it. As for the dossier on me I bet it's a couple of inches thick, as is many hundreds of thousands just like me. They can't get all of us.

By the way, I have a squeaky clean criminal record.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:41 | 2165105 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

That squeaky clean crimminal record is actually part of the latest terrorist profile.  It means you have some morality, which means you cannot be trusted. 

I also have no crimminal record, I cannot be trusted, and I have stopped caring about monitoring.  There are too many of us now.  Even if they do get me, they will get me in place of someone else who is probably more dangerous.  J BN TQBSUBDVT!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:40 | 2165154 Michael
Michael's picture


Just in case anybody forgot, Jumbo and Prime loans are currently going into foreclosure.

I'm thinking how I can profit from it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:21 | 2165174 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Nobody put up a fight when the government rounded up guns after Katrina.

Nobody put up a fight when the government made us and future generations debtor slaves to the banks.

Nobody put up a fight when they groped our kids at the airport.

Nobody put up a fight when they put chemicals in our water, food and air.

We're already in prison- cleaned, shaven and sterilized.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 12:08 | 2165952 prole
prole's picture

'Nobody put up a fight when they groped our kids at the airport' indeed.

Everybody I know personally (who will comment) is railing at the media for being "against Romnel."

I mention that RP is the only candidate for Liberty, against molestation/radiation by .gov etc.  Response I get? "He's crazy" or just a bemused look like I'm crazy.  And these are sheeple with money, getting eagerly? radiated every time they fly. beam me up Scotty.

Romnel is going to molest and radiate the fck out of these retards, and they discuss how the 'media' is against him. (ei: they support the tool)

The sheeple I know who aren't commenting are the Hussain voters God only knows what's in their head.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:58 | 2165508 smb12321
smb12321's picture

By the way, no doubt you have attracted attention from the very government folks you spout hatred for.  Or (more likely) you're a plant to draw out the rest of the crazies. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:45 | 2165179 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

So scared > might have to hide under the bed. 



Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:05 | 2164805 Michael
Michael's picture

I actually think it will be more like 2 billion people dead, or we could just kill all the banksters, elites, and olgarchs I'm OK with that too.

Lets just say I've lost hope in humanity and I'm OK with the death spiral now.  

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:36 | 2164890 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Ted Turner! Is that you? 100 million earthlings max!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:34 | 2165000 Michael
Michael's picture

I would make sure Ted's number goes to zero and his ilk is fucked too.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:40 | 2165004 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Micheal is right ,Most Americans don't give a fuck about what is going on and if they do they sure as hell are not going to march on the white house armed , so they deserve to die . The ones that do see the writing on the wall are" dug in" anyway.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:04 | 2165332 10mm
10mm's picture

Until the day when i walk down the street,go into a cafe,bar,work place etc and the conversations start to come up about REAL events concerning the country as opposed to fucking sports,shit show events,fucking dead lifeless MSM meaningless blabber from dead fucking sheep and fucking chickin shit gossip,im sure to drop dead on the spot.Until then,were fucked.And if one attempts to bring up critical issues that require criticle thinking and yes,it will be negative and sooooo depressing,because fucking sheep don't want or care to address depresssssing issues.fuck em,fuck em all till the fucking SHTF.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:41 | 2165006 xela2200
xela2200's picture

I doubt it or not this time. Russia, China, India, and Iran can do more damage to us through financial means than with weapons. Heck, they are already doing just that. They are holding less bonds, collateral agreements, and buying all the resources of the world.Russia is now the biggest producer of oil in the planet surpassing Saudi Arabia.

We are in a hole, and they are shoveling dirt on to us. That is why the US is desperate to attack Iran and put the rest of the world in its place. The problem is that the kids in the playground are standing up to the bully now.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:37 | 2165108 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

I'll go for mitigating losses on behalf of ALL Michael. Accountability and justice are part and parcel of such a package. If the losses can be two billion, why not work down? Does your statement mean your resigned to accepting two billion in losses even if it is you or your family that could be part of the loss? If so, your position personally is one of weakness or illogical.

As for FEMA camps or the threat of the chain gang. That also is immaterial to me if a republic is reborn and liberty is restored. The rest will carry on. There are no guarantees. I believe America is now very similar to where the Soviets were in 1981 or 1982.

Only the reserve currency is providing a few more years before final ruin. And China becoming the reserve currency is a feature, not a bug. It will happen in 2014 or so. Now I don't believe the value of the peg prize will be as expected from China's end but that is another story. I have maintained since 2008 the ME war will be after Q1 2013 and war in Asia will be 2015 (starts with North Korea).

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 08:55 | 2195403 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

If it's any consolation Micheal, humanity doesn't hold out much hope for you either.

Your clownish avatar is quite fitting.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:56 | 2165505 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Diego - On calling for hundreds of millions to die.   Like the Vietnam protesters cared little for the peace or the troops (they spit on them when they returned) this crew wants peace about as much as QE3. All the talk is killing bankers, rich (how Marxist), Jews or the American "Sheeple" who they hate with a particular vengeance.  I have not seens a single constructive comment.  Who in the world would want to live in such a hate-filled society? (Ready for the obscenities now)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:32 | 2166562 fuu
fuu's picture

Fuck no and be ashamed of yourself for crying to the nanny.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 08:53 | 2195401 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

Listen pal,


The only reason I frequent this site is because there is no gatekeeper- the cocksucker that said that will be pushed into a corner by the others as he should, but should at least be afforded the opportunity to speak his mind, hateful as it may be. If you want your news and commentary to be washed and sanitized for your viewing pleasure, go somewhere else (there are plenty of places for that).


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:34 | 2164884 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Perhaps you'll be an embedded reporter and can update us all with casualty figures, until, of course you join the hundreds of millions you are so anxious to see go.  No doubt the world will mourn your passing, as you have probably added so much value to it in your brief existence.  Then again, you could always start the culling at home where it belongs and show us all how it is done.

While I am no fan of warmongering political types, I thank Darwin every day that at least people like YOU are impotent and powerless, raging in the dark against your own demons, and cannot make your sick fantasies come true.  Dealing with Bush/Obama is bad enough.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 09:02 | 2195408 nmewn
nmewn's picture

In regards to your down arrows, I'm trying to figger out if we have six reporters who read ZH or six eugenicists.

Though they wouldn't be mutually exclusive I suppose ;-)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:37 | 2164759 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

 I wonder why MSM is pushing for war with Iran

Eat The Rich!!!


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:58 | 2164993 Michael
Michael's picture

They want war so much, I'm just trying to shove it down their throats so the MSM and others realize how un-palatable it can be.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:09 | 2165034 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

Your post was brilliant, Michael. 

I swear I laughed as hard and as long as I've laughed in a while.

Thank you.

It flew right over the head of the stupider posters, and those with a trollish agenda would of course be upset.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:33 | 2165039 Michael
Michael's picture

Thanks. My stealth sarcasm is virtually undetectable, but it does have a ring of truth to it.

In the end it's only money and I really don't see a need to go to WW3 over it. But then again I'm not an elite bankster oligarch.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 03:46 | 2165109 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



You're fucking creepy and psychotic.  If memory serves me well, you're a Ron Paul organizer in Florida, right?

Once again, the biggest obstacle Ron Paul has to becoming president is his whacked-out followers.  No one wants to be grouped together with the FREAKS. 



Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:12 | 2165136 Michael
Michael's picture

Do you work for the NSA Max, or one of those NAZI Fusion Centers?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:21 | 2165143 Michael
Michael's picture

I hijacked this thread when it was down below and ZH put it on top as a sticky.

Thanks ZH, I did notice.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:56 | 2165162 Michael
Michael's picture

Just in case anybody forgot, Jumbo and Prime loans are currently going into foreclosure.

I'm thinking how I can profit from it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:11 | 2165165 Michael
Michael's picture

It's nice to see their hanging ten.

NSA/CSS Unveils New Hawaii Center

"Wahiawa, Oahu, HAWAII, Jan. 6 – The National Security Agency/Central Security Service marked today the completion of a new regional operations center, officially named the CAPT Joseph J. Rochefort Building, at a ribbon-cutting ceremony where officials emphasized how the $358 million project will help to further integrate national security efforts. "

NSA/CSS Unveils New Hawaii Center Designed to Boost Intelligence Integration, Collaboration

"NSA/CSS has had an operations center in Hawaii for more than 14 years. But even with recent renovations, the original facility, first built during World War II, has limitations stemming from its age, location, and structures. The new building will provide cryptology professionals with the tools necessary to better access and collaboratively interpret data from a broad variety of sources at various classification levels. Moreover, its enhanced capabilities will augment work that will still be carried out in the original center – eliminating physical, virtual, and other barriers to information sharing. "

Surely the General knows you can't win a war against a tactic?


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:42 | 2165229 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Michael asked this rhetorical question:

Surely the General knows you can't win a war against a tactic?

His paycheck and pension depend on him convincingly pretending otherwise.


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 12:15 | 2165992 prole
prole's picture

That is the key: Fat paychecks and a rock-solid pension = he is winning the war. General poker-face doesn't have to pretend anything.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 09:46 | 2165469 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Nax - Exactly right as concerns Ron Paul.   These folks are so dumb they don't realize their cheerleading for Iran and Syria, calls for millions to die in Israel and the US (by none other than that freedom-loving state of Iran) and other nutty pronouncements drives folks away from Paul's rational economic message.  I wish - if they insisit on blathering about conspiracies and Illuminati - they'd not mention RP.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:47 | 2167144 fuu
fuu's picture

"You're fucking creepy and psychotic."

Another big ol' slice of irony pie there bubba.

You forgot to call them doomers, and you forgot your tag line.

Max Fischer - Culus Maximus

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:11 | 2163962 true brain
true brain's picture

Actual fighting will last few weeks. Nuclear winter will last few milleniums.

Bitchez, cockroaches next, up to the front of the line for evolutionary promotion.

Nature does not care. Neither do I.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:34 | 2165067 InvalidID
InvalidID's picture


 Bullish RAID

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:12 | 2163966 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It's so close I can almost hear it. Yes we rally around the the flag, boys rally once again.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:31 | 2164020 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

IMHO, whether (or when) this starts has more to do with Russia, India, and China, than Iran herself.  If Iran stood alone, we would not be having this conversation.  Of course the price of oil and how far down the road to collapse we are will also factor into the equation.

WWIII is the war for access to the world's remaining resources and it has already begun.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:51 | 2164234 pirea
pirea's picture

WWIII is the war for world's remaining resources and to eliminate 90 of the users to be enough for the survivors.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:43 | 2164570 espirit
espirit's picture

Hey Axis of Evildoers, nuke here first.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:43 | 2164730 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

it would be ironic if WWIII, the fight for oil, kills enough people that green energy becomes sustainable

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:06 | 2164808 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

may be the only way stupid humans get there

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:26 | 2167024 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

That is a good one. And All Quiet on the Western Front is one of the best film adaptations of print ever. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 05:21 | 2168779 Element
Element's picture

Russia has plenty of its own resources though, and strong export trade. They are more concerned about their border areas, and insugency that leads to policically fractionating, via a western backed undermining process. 

Hence the Russian Command are sounding all the necessary warnings to the West to think again. 


Russian general: strike against Iran planned for summer

17 Feb 2012

An attack on Iran might happen in the summer, the Chief of Staff of Russian Army General Nikolai Makarov, warned today on the channel Russia Today. When referring to the tensions created around the Islamic Republic's nuclear program, Makarov noted that the West, especially the military in Washington and Tel Aviv, are preparing an act of war against the Persian country in April or no later than June this year.

The argument used for aggression, which Tehran considers artificially made to justify a war, refers to the alleged Iranian attempt to develop a nuclear program with military pretensions.

But Iran defends its right to use atomic energy for peaceful purposes and to produce fuel for its nuclear facilities.

The West reacts with bellicosity and more unilateral sanctions against the Persian state each time it refers to new programs to develop the atomic sphere and to reiterate its peaceful character, the source warned.

Makarov reiterated that Iran was the target of cyber attacks, while many of its scientists were victims of fatal attacks, whose authorship Tehran attaches to Israeli intelligence.

The Iranian authorities captured an unmanned U.S. spy plane, cited the Russian high command.

Moreover, the United States maintains a large concentration of naval forces in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz, while Tel Aviv now accuses Iran of being behind the alleged attempts to organize attacks on Israeli embassies in Tbilisi and New Delhi.

The Russian military considered that the outbreak of a conflict with Iran could spread through the Middle East with a domino effect and unpredictable consequences, with the possibility of becoming even in an international confrontation.

Lisa Karpova



And these recent articles:

Libya: NATO's worst crime

Russia confirms foreign invasion of Syria


Watch this embedded video, there is a seismic shift in regional and global perceptions and responses going on:

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:13 | 2163971 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I tend to agree with you Sheepdog.. but then again, they have been dragging this out for a while... I will say the rhetoric seems to be stepping up a bit.. actually.. a lot

Hard to say.. but.. like the old saying.. better to be 2 years early than 10 minutes late..

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:16 | 2164384 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

don't take your eye off Pakistan - they hate the US, and if push comes to shove, they'll fight with the afghan's on Islamic doctrines, going all in with Iran - they know where the axis-trail will lead too, after a persian conquest

Ps. ~65% of physical gold is in jewelry - 1920's the US and French owned the largest proportions of gold reserves, whereas today [90+ yrs. onward] it is the Asians and OPEC that supposedly hold the most eg. china/saudi's

Ps2. ~60% of all foreign exchange reserves were denominated in $$$'s late 2010,... but, that too, will come to pass, as creditor nations rely less on a debtor nation that is america today - as we see our debt ceiling rising meteorically every year ___ link "Gold Nugget Facts /sidebar


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:45 | 2164913 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Pakistanis have greater hate for Shi'ites than Americans (yes, there was a poll taken).  Right now they are working off that hatred and don't have time to take on the US.  Together with the Shi'ites (me against my brother, my brother and I against you), they are also working to rid their land of Christians.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:05 | 2164927 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Max - I will say the rhetoric seems to be stepping up a bit.. actually.. a lot

The Kish island bourse is operating.  A flaming challenge to the petro dollar.


Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:59 | 2164096 BandGap
BandGap's picture

And you ain't seen nothing yet. The fact that the battle groups are burning through the bucks means nothing now. I'll bet there is little to no consideration at this point regarding what this is costing. Hope and change, baby. I'll take mine with cheese and fries on the side.

Wonder what land forces are being prepared.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:46 | 2165230 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The boilers in the ships of those carrier groups are powered by burning bales of $100 bills, all borrowed.


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:24 | 2167934 General Decline
General Decline's picture

There is a National Guard armory on my route to work. Up until a year or so ago all the equipment was painted desert tan. Lately ther has been more and more stuff painted jungle green. Draw your own conclusions.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:26 | 2164162 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

as reported here and here only YEARS ago "stuxnet attack!" GOING to war? say again?

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:28 | 2164164 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

I can't think of a better way to get unemployed men and woman to work who are lacking meaningful skill sets for the private sector than to ship them off to war. IMHO I don't think it will start off being nuclear, however, it will provide jobs for the poor and illiterate. The .gov will do something to cause the bleeding heart, Middle Americans to take cause, perhaps initiate the draft (after this election cycle as no candidate running for office wants to initiate such consequence prior to Nov) and then we're back to 1941 again. It's all made up. Iran will get money after the cause from us, any embargo will be lifted globally, oil will be down around $70 and everyone will be slow dancing.

At the end of the day, it's all bullshit.


Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:48 | 2164745 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Hey Larry.....I'm way smarter and richer than you. In my view, you get to join them. Have a nice trip.

BTW my boys are NOT fighting for this corrupt government. They'll be to busy helping their dad get rid of it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:06 | 2164802 American34
American34's picture

You just bought a ticket to Guantanamo. "Our" government won't stand for that kind of talk from its own citizines.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:48 | 2165013 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Easily said on an anonomous blog. I'm sure you've told women on other blogs you have a 10" dick too.

Congratulations. You brought nothing of value to this picnic other than ants.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:45 | 2165077 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Actually I served "my country", which is most likely more than I can say for you. I always enjoy it when assholes seem to want to volunteer "other" folks to die. I'm sure you've never seen the results of war either. So seriously dude, take a flying leap off a tall building and do us all a favor. If you're so willing to sacrifice others than I'm sure you, your wife (I feel sorry for her), or your kids might TRULY enjoy the "atmosphere" of a war scene. Go, enjoy. I'm positive that once you've seen it, you'll take an enlightened path as to what your "views" are when you see one of YOUR loved one's splattered all over the place.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:32 | 2165623 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

>2165077 Ima anal sphincter

I think you've missed Larry's point...

He's not condoning it all..

Just stating the fact of the way it is, and has been in the past..

Keep an open mind..

"Those who jump to conclusions make bad landings.."

Take care all..

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:48 | 2187228 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Mesquite hit the nail on the head.

Ima Anal Sphincter only said that he served his country. No mention of where, when or what.  That is to be commended, if it's true.

However, the way the wars have progressed since Henry Kissinger has had his way (read his biography), is that mostly the poor and un-educated midwesterners almost always find their way there. Today, its going to be the unemployed who have no choice. I'm not volunteering anyone. This is the way it's been for 60 years. And the conditions are perfect right now for everyone to identify a common enemy, rally behind it, the MSM spin it, have the bleeding hearts back it and folks voluntarily recruit into war.

Nothing builds an economy like wartime.

And next time you feel entitled to make a sarcastic response, I strongly suggest that you corroborate it because some pissing contests are best saved for the CNN blogs.

Again, anyone can have a 9" cock on the interwebs...

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:07 | 2165133 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Larry - if you think this is an anonomous blog.  You are mistaken.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:32 | 2164179 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Don't worry Arabs paying for that.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:02 | 2164452 pkea
pkea's picture

alright, the US, make the mayans proud of their forecasting modeling skills...

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:39 | 2164561 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

WWIII has already kicked off. Ink, oil and gold. Blood has yet to be introduced. You can't chart blood that has been spilled on a live index. Yet.  

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:57 | 2164607 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

SheepDog, sadly I think you are right. I'd be shocked if the attack isn't launched by Israel before April. If the Israelis do not do it, the minute Obama falls behind in the polls in October, he'll launch. This is about who will pay the US more to do their dirty work, Israel or the House of Saud if the IAF doesn't spring into action first.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:13 | 2164735 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

The Feast of Moloch (Apr. 19-20) comes with a new moon this year.  Illuminati occultists believe their false flags bring them extra power if they sacrifice children by fire during the Feast of Moloch.  For example, see Waco and Oklahoma City.

I bet we will start bombing Iranian children shortly after Israel wastes the USS Enterprise with a nuclear torpedo.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:04 | 2164943 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

"Bombing Iranian children ...."


The stupid is strong in this one.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:19 | 2164967 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

We always end up bombing children when we go to war.  The puppetmasters find that they get more out of a war when they encourage the sheeple's willful ignorance of the horrors and injustice of war.  I see they have done their job well.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:22 | 2164974 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Will you please define "we"?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 05:56 | 2165054 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

"We" = America, in this case.

The military brass sees the dead children as collateral damage.  Their deaths are supposedly unintended, yet always inevitable.  Hey, shit happens when "just following orders".  It is verboten to question orders, or question who is really giving the orders, or question what dark, hidden purpose the orders might serve.  Their own souls are clean because the oligarchs' laws say so, and the oligarchs are society's guiding lights.  They would NEVER try to screw you in the worst possible way.

The sheeple usually don't even see the dead children, but when they do, they see them as just more dead brown people who don't really count in the same way that their own dead children would count.  Besides, the sheeple need cheap gas to fill their SUVs so they can drive their precious children two blocks to get a Happy Meal. 

The Illuminati see the dead children as a means to power, inspiration for future terrorists, and sacrifices to whatever soul-eating Lovecraftian horror they are worshipping that day.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 07:53 | 2165234 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

New World Chaos said:

The Illuminati see the dead children as a means to power, inspiration for future terrorists,

They can't keep the war machine turning without manufacturing more "terrorists", and they've found that the most profitable way of doing so is incinerating the harmless and helpless.

and sacrifices to whatever soul-eating Lovecraftian horror they are worshipping that day.

I think it's Azathoth all this week.


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:21 | 2165754 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Killing innocents is an age-old Satanic sacrifice ritual.  If you have NO grasp as to the spiritual dimensions that exist, then you are missing quite a few pieces of the puzzle. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:55 | 2166652 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"Killing innocents" happens on behalf of all FatherGod religions - no one is spared anger and vengeance, so saith all the old books of instruction. . .

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:18 | 2164814 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Little does Obama know, we've had it. I think (maybe I just hope) a lot more people are done with the "terrorist who just happens to have oil which we never get wasting oil, money and lives to try to obtain through complicated lies" bullshit

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:46 | 2164632 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Have to agree with you here.

I think Casey Research might be caught in what is probably a common mindset by now for those who have been trying to make timeframe predictions; I've seen many experts that have been calling the collapse for years and years, and I think everyone has been so impressed by how long TPTB can kick the can that by now everybody's used to padding the previsions generously in order to avoid looking like a fool.

The debt canyon is not the pressing problem. Hell, if we had enlightened leaders we could just go about the universal debt jubilee, implement a transition resource-based economy and move on to post-scarcity economics already.

But we do not have enlightned leaders; quite the contrary, we have satanist leaders, that should be quite clear by now (or else, if someone doesn't agree, that would make an interesting sub-discussion) and as satanist leaders they don't care about the debt illusion, they can extend it and twist the rules as long as is necessary.

No, the primary factor which determines the elite's timeline now is the ongoing mass spiritual awakening. Like any good dominant meme, it is spreading exponentially in the exposed host population, wreaking havoc with aeons-old plans. Masses that wake up to their sovereignty, their personal empowerment potential, disidentification with the ego, understanding the rules of the mechanism of manifestation, as well as the dynamics of energy vampires - people are fast switching from being dominated by low-frequency vibes of despair, fear, hate - which the control system depends on to manipulate us - to courage, trust and love, which are inherently destabilizing to it.

The fact that the system is now throwing - nearly - everything it has against us should speak tons. A depressing and disempowering revised world narrative, controlled and corrupted education, media, culture, social mores, poisoned environment, food, water, air, airwaves, compounded by threats as well as actual system-against-serf violence has not yet sufficed to break this powerful, arising wave. This is the most flattering testament ever to the indomitable human spirit.

Now, there is only one tool left in their toolbox to keep humanity on their knees, and that tool is WWIII. They've prepared the ground, established psychosocial manipulation programs to implant the end-of-times meme in the collective psyche (we've all seen the various 2012 psyops) and they have not set up this whole light show just to get a damp squib. The arising wave of consciousness does not give them a choice anyway, they'll want to make a move by or around fall 2012 or be obsoleted to oblivion.

Not that I think WWIII inevitable, nor that TPTB can still win their mindgames for supremacy. I absolutely trust that consciousness and love has already won against fear, but I'm persuaded that they will still try to do as much damage as they can on the way out. After all, that's what egoic consciousness does.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:11 | 2164804 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

My only regret is that I have only one up arrow to give you.


*p.s. - An article purporting to claim that Iran is backing and working with Al Qaeda (whatever that is - my understanding, based on early admission, which they've been trying to scrub from the universe ever since, by U.S. and British intelligence officials, is that there was no such organized group, but I digress) was penned on Glenn Beck's The Blaze today. Can't they get more creative or at least original in their fear mongering designed towards scaring as many sheeple as possible so as to allow them a wide berth in gutting the constitution....errr...I mean fighting 'the war on terror?'

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:44 | 2165009 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Maybe that specific article was simply fear mongering targeted as "maintenance programming" for an already acquired demographic, namely those who still believe in Al-CIAda. That is still a significant fraction of the sheeple, albeit it diminishes by the day. Moreover, these guys are not known to be creative - clever. yes. but original, not that much.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 05:56 | 2168801 Element
Element's picture

Yes, it's a battle of the mind, and the being, and what causes that mind to end, and the pre-existing ourself to awaken, is when the fake mind voluntarily see's it is futile, and stops occupying itself with their BS reality-world and info-tainment, and just walks away from the lie, of all of it. 

Knowing it knows nothing via any of that.

It's the cruelest and most beautiful discovery.

And the world we are in desperately wants to drown-it-out with ceaseless trivial meaningless sentimental mental 'noise'.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:01 | 2165237 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

TruthInSunshine observed:

An article purporting to claim that Iran is backing and working with Al Qaeda was penned on Glenn Beck's The Blaze today.

They can't even keep their stories straight. Because of the events in Libya and what is now happening in Syria, Al Qaida is now back on America's side. Apparently Beck hasn't gotten the memo about referring to them again as "freedom fighters", not terrists.

They really hope nobody remembers that Iran provided assistance to the US during the first weeks of operations in Afghanistan. Chimpy W. Bush quickly had to label them "Axis of Evil" before word of that leaked too far.


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:17 | 2165740 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Glenn Beck is the ULTIMATE Zionist cheerleader.

I think it's interesting how Talmudic/Kabbalistic, Masonic, and Mormonism are so deeply interconnected when one studies their symbology and "deep mysteries" mindset.

The hard truth is that all of these mindsets have one foundational root:  Ancient Luciferian/pagan belief in a Dualistic all goes back to the symbol of the serpent/dragon.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:14 | 2166493 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I've glanced on the surface of the talmud/kabbalah (although only about 10 hours of study barely start scratching the surface) but I don't see what you are talking about when you mention a dualistic god. Pagans sure as hell weren't worshipping a dualistic god, they were overwhelmingly conceiving god as an immanent entity, to be seen and revered in its multifaceted forms. This is not the misled view that they thought "there is a god of the birds and a god of the animals and a god of the rivers and a god of the mountain" but more often "there is god in the river and god in the animals and god in the birds and god in the mountains".

Same with the Kabbalah and its sefirot. Hell, the word sefirot itself means "manifestations" as in the different aspects in which god, the unconceivable, can be conceived. Have you ever read the kreat shema? "Hear ye, o Israel (that's abraham, by the way), the lord is our god, the lord is one". A very powerful kabbalistic saying is to the effect that, "The breath becomes a stone; the stone, a plant; the plant, an animal; the animal, a man; the man, a spirit; and the spirit, a god." This is about a unity god creating and the creation rising back to god. What duality do you talk about?

IIRC, in the kabbalah creation myth natash, satan corrupted our perception of reality and split the spirit in two, creating a seed of life around it. The result is a reality in which the unity between that which exists and all that happens remains unacknowledged. They even can prove it through their sacred geometry; the tree of life does not grow from satan's corrupt seed (duality).

I feel that the truth goes much deeper than your surface judgment of the matter. Don't even get me started about the serpent, I don't have all day to spend on this thread ;)


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:16 | 2164835 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Nice post. Hope everyone is starting to see like you.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:31 | 2164989 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I used to be disenfranchised, and then I started travelling, and have been for the last year and a half. Trust me, trust life, brother, the awakening is real.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:20 | 2165141 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Think for Yourself - I agree. Wanting to know the real deal about Occupy Wall St. I went and made an hour or so movie. No snippet interviews or soundbytes, the real stuff including night footage:

When you watch it based on what you said about consciessness, look at the night footage and two laypeople discussing quantum physics and dimensions. I have calcluated math of general year man enters the singularity (4th dimension) as 2052. It seems mankind is prepped for our final massive pain cycle and subsequent evolution. Pain is the catalyst of evolution (wish this wasn't always true). God bless you ALL.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:27 | 2166544 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I'm sorry but I have to say you're bullshitting, at least for the line "I have calcluated math of general year man enters the singularity (4th dimension) as 2052." Please. It could have already happened for all you know but god decided to leave you behind until then because he /facepalmed when he had to read that line of yours.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:05 | 2164898 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

EXACTLY!  There is a battle for the soul of this planet happening right now.  We will choose our future later this year.  I think we have friends in high places and we will ultimately see a mass awakening, a weakening of the ego/fear trip which prevents us from understanding that we are all One, understanding our collective soul-sickness as a first step to healing it, all conspiracies out in the open, complete loss of faith in the establishment, radical decentralization as a religion, and liberals and fundamentalists ignoring their respective shills and lying down together to reach a deep understanding of this fundamental truth:  Control is Satanic.  With the cabal's tentacles out of our heads and pockets, this century will bring a warp-speed blast of self-knowledge and technological advancement.

WWIII isn't the last trick up their sleeve.  I think we will see attempts at race war, mass internet shutdowns, engineered bird flu, FEMA holocaust, world fiat currency by treaty, and a hoaxed alien attack before this is all over, but these plots will fail. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:05 | 2164946 john39
john39's picture

they will try whatever it takes, until they are exposed and stopped.  but I fully agree with this sub thread, the awakening is real, it is now a battle of wills.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:50 | 2164981 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I agree thoroughly with you, except for a minor yet significant correction.

Yes, there is a battle for the soul of this planet - and by extension, for our individuated souls which are fundamentally one with the planet's - happening right now. But we will not "choose our future later this year". I understand that you mean the satanists will soon throw everything they have at us, and we will have to make the right choice at that point. But it starts now. We can already choose our future now, and we will constantly keep creating our future, right now, all the time. This is not a time for worrying about the future, the present moment is already intense enough. We just need to keep choosing what is right, right now. What they throw at us will be mere challenges, the background to our choices in the evolving now.

Acting with this attitude, our collective healing starts now (not that there's is any other time that it can start, hence why that is the precise moment it should be started) and that will prepare us and make us stronger to deal with these challenges, successfully dismissing manipulation towards racism (which is utmost ignorance when analyzed from a conscious standpoint), empowering us on the individual level to act rightly without dependence on external information (i.e. the internet), strengthening our immune systems to deal with the increasing attempts to poison us or weaken us with biohazards and so on.

I fully expect them to try to convert the masses with what is called the True doctrine of Lucifer in the following years. Obviously, I do not know what that doctrine is yet, although I've gleaned hints from skirting the topic of secret societies, but I imagine something to the effect of the consecration of the collective in denial of the individual - not a healthy humanity as an aggregate of beings, but the illusion, absolute abstract concept - and thus lie - of a "collective" gaining a life of it's own, for which the individual can be "sacrificed" against his will. In other words, absolute statism.

This sanctification of the collective is an embodiment of what, to me, is absolute satanism (I agree with you that control is satanic): "The means justifies the ends." This is a motto that denies the reality of now, and overlooks the fact that in this moment, which is the only thing that ever exists, only what we call the means ever exist, since the ends only dwell in the future, which is an illusion of mind. It leads to a corruption of what is to the "benefit" of that which is not, resulting in the inversion of the principles to which it is applied.

Hence, the most divine principle which I know to state with utmost rationality: The means are the end. Keeping this in mind is much more than sufficient for me to judge a tree by its fruits.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 06:25 | 2165198 Western
Western's picture

Clif High, is that you?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:12 | 2165561 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Could be, right?  Hasn't mentioned pie yet though :-)

Great posts TFY and everyone else as well.  I'm with you on the broad outline and so curious about where the tipping point is.  I would say at least 95% of americans are still sleepwalking under full mind control and getting their daily program reinforcement from Fox or MSNBC or even, *gasp* NPR.  That said, whatever percent is out there with blinders off is starting to have an impact.  There are curious new frequencies forming standing waves in the meta conscious... how interesting and exciting.  Here's to humanity's bright future (now).

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:37 | 2166579 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

3% is the critical mass.

At least, that's the theory.

When 3% of the people become enlightened to the reality of what is happening, the response overwhelms whatever firewalls the establishment has put into place, no matter the system or how robust they consider it.



Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:39 | 2165263 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Thanks for reminding me of the Church of Now.  I often find it difficult not to dwell on the past or fear the future.

Read the Svali documents (Illuminati defector; or the last few chapters of 1984 to catch a glimpse of the true doctrine of Lucifer.  It is interesting that you talk of the collective gaining a life of its own.  I think we are dealing with an emergent hive mind, like the Borg, that is trying to assimilate all aspects of life into its control-matrix.  The world government isn't just a tool of the Beast, it IS the Beast.  And it wants your soul even more than it wants power.  It wants you to give yourself over to it by doing the horrible things it does to others.  It wants to take away all feelings that make you human.

Some 1984 quotes for you:

Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the party, which is collective and immortal.

When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us: so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. It is intolerable to us that an erroneous thought should exist anywhere in the world, however secret and powerless it may be. Even in the instant of death we cannot permit any deviation. In the old days the heretic walked to the stake still a heretic, proclaiming his heresy, exulting in it. Even the victim of the Russian purges could carry rebellion locked up in his skull as he walked down the passage waiting for the bullet. But we make the brain perfect before we blow it out.

And even if we chose to let you live out the natural term of your life, still you would never escape from us. What happens to you here is for ever. Understand that in advance. We shall crush you down to the point from which there is no coming back. Things will happen to you from which you could not recover, if you lived a thousand years. Never again will you be capable of ordinary human feeling. Everything will be dead inside you. Never again will you be capable of love, or friendship, or joy of living, or laughter, or curiosity, or courage, or integrity. You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty and then we shall fill you with ourselves.

The ideal set up by the Party was something huge, terrible, and glittering—a world of steel and concrete, of monstrous machines and terrifying weapons—a nation of warriors and fanatics, marching forward in perfect unity, all thinking the same thoughts and shouting the same slogans, perpetually working, fighting, triumphing, persecuting—three hundred million people all with the same face.

A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.

Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?


When one trauma leads to another, that is one of Lucifer's synapses firing.  And thus, the means are the end?  "And Ye shall know them by their fruits."  Is this doctrine of Lucifer consistent with what you have learned?


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:11 | 2165720 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Thanks for this post.  I reread 1984 recently.  A stunning work, to say the least.  It is almost horrifying at its prescience....the words are a description of TODAY!

Lucifer's plan is multi-faceted and multi-layered, with distortion and deception as its main device.

Things are truly not as they seem....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:23 | 2165757 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I also reread 1984 recently. I remember reading it long ago as a high school kid and liking it as 'science fiction'. While I could conceive of the things within the book happening in some countries, it seemed an extremely remote possibility for America. I never imagined that this could come about so quickly and that, in some ways, the current situation is even worse than depicted in the book because of advances in technology.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:47 | 2167113 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you're right about technology. The tools these evil bastards employ are beyond the scale and power of most of the early fiction. The only twist I think is the hands who hold the tools. These tools, especially the net and computer are also power levels. Like this site, they level the truth which motivates the mass. They also block and take down systems themselves and establish their own rogue systems. The net itself, in a short time, has created new non geographic based common groups with common cause and common enemies. WWIII or IV will be stranger than the books. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 19:58 | 2167711 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

1984 is a description of today because Orwell was a whistleblower.  That's why they eliminated him shortly after 1984 was published.  Ironically, they did it by using the Ministry of Health (the Orwellian Ministry of Sickness) to tie up his import permits for the antibiotics to treat his tuberculosis.  They try to kill anyone who reveals their inner occult secrets to Muggles.  Also see Stanley Kubrick.  They whacked him for Eyes Wide Shut, then cut out parts of the film and destroyed the originals.

Most lower-ranking Illuminati would say that Lucifer is a good angel who rebelled against an evil God.  They would also say Satan doesn't exist, but this is his greatest deception.  He masquerades as other entities, which is why "They call him by many names".  Lucifer is one of those names.  But the evil God (not the Creator, but the one who commanded all the genocides in the Old Testament) was actually Satan, and thus Satan led the Illuminati right back into his clutches.  Yes, Satan wormed his way into the Bible.  Satan has also been running the Catholic church for most of its history.  So despite the schism between Luciferians and Satanists, Lucifer being Satan isn't really much of a stretch.  Satan has managed much greater religions distortions.  But who knows?  There are doctrines within doctrines within doctrines, with a new deception at every level.  And he literally divides his followers against themselves.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:56 | 2167860 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Exactly. It's also very hard to know the true doctrines without becoming part of the organization, at some point you have to start trusting that whistleblowers from high ranks and hidden circles are actually really whistleblowers and not only meant to throw you off scent. For this reason I rarely spend more than 2-10 hours researching any given secret society, still good enough to give a good overview without wasting too much time on details we can't be sure about anyways.

Back on topic: both Aldous Huxley and Orwell were members of the Fabian Society. Their emblem is litteraly a wolf in sheep's clothing. Some interesting stuff going on over there. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 22:15 | 2168079 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Kubrick is off the charts brilliant. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:36 | 2166576 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Yes, that quote is darkly ominous, broodingly satanic - it reminds me of satanic sacrifices in which the parasites feed off the victims' strong emotions of despair, it reminds me of atrocities which we can barely imagine that the victims of MK-ULTRA undergoed when tortured under the effect of strong psychotropic drugs, it also makes me think of things far worse to which we have not been exposed yet.

The last paragraph is interesting, since it acknowledges that the end of an action is the action itself, luciferianism revealing itself in one ultimate moment of truth. "The object of torture is torture", yet it rejoices in it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:49 | 2167783 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

You might be interested in this book about the contagious spirit of evil which pretty much rules the world: 

Also, as bad as the Illuminati treat us, they treat their own members far worse- see the Svali link above.  This could be a key weakness.  If a few people break free of the trauma-based split personality mind control and spill the beans, it could trigger an avalanche of awareness on the outside and a civil war within the Illuminati.  We will need safe houses and enlightened shrinks for the defectors.  We will also need to show them that individual Christians can treat Illuminati defectors as Christ would.  That would be a serious mindfuck for them.  Their response would be to clamp down on their own members even harder.  It would take their civil war to a whole new level.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:01 | 2167878 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Thank you. Although I've read about MK-ULTRA, other mind control programs, some of the illuminist psychologists and especially Bernays, I don't know that much about actual mindcontrol programming. Much of my understanding of it is probably derived intuitively from my own research into psychology, meta-psychology, spirituality and the nature of mind. The most on-topic source I knew so far was , so I have already downloaded and archived the svali discussions and will give them some serious consideration. Same with your latest link, thank you very much.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:28 | 2167910 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Will you email me your opinion of the Svali documents?  My email is currently two posts down from this.  BTW, MK-Ultra gave the Illuminati an amazing boost to their internal cult-programming abilities.  Of course, the program continues to this day, with heavy Illuminati involvement.  I think they mostly see it as a "self-improvement" course but they program outsiders when necessary.  Obama is an MK-Ultra Manchurian candidate.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:26 | 2165146 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

New World Chaos- Note my avatar, copy and paste it into and email or Word document to enlarge it. Whether enlarged or not however the mind recognizes it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:31 | 2165272 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Sorry, I don't recognize your avatar.  Perhaps I haven't seen the movie?  If you are trying to get me to email you, you can reach me at valis[delete this]rising at gmail.  I check that one rarely but will check it in the next few days.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:37 | 2166582 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

by the way I love yours and the subtle modifications that were made to the symbolism ;)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:42 | 2167380 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Thanks.  That's Sauron when he flares up and turns sickly just after the Ring of Power slips into the lava in 2012.  The pyramid represents the dollar, the heirarchical power structure of control, and the slavery (mental or otherwise) that builds it.  The pyramid is the tower on which Sauron sits, and it is all going to burn.  "Chao ab ordo" = Chaos out of order, which is the opposite of their "Ordo ab chao" goal/strategy.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:04 | 2167882 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Thank you. I had noticed/understood all of these elements but didn't know what was the source of the explosion destroying the eye. Very nicely done.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 12:02 | 2165921 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I see a reddish-black blob with something that was probably lettering at the bottom, and when stretched in a word document I see a big reddish-black blob with something that was probably lettering at the bottom.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 10:59 | 2165687 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

I'm reminded of a poster from the 60's..

"What if they gave a war--And nobody came..?"

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 11:57 | 2165895 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I guess that's probably part of why the made sure to dehumanize war and automatize it as much as possible... soon it will be able to be fought whether men care to fight it or not. Then we will have wars of the system against men.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 23:43 | 2164728 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

The beam on enterprise must be around 300 ft.  The mean depth of the Hormuz is less than 100 ft.  If 9/11 had the twin towers, then "this" might have the control tower and the upper mast jetting out of the waves - just to have that irresistible reason to amphibious assault Bander Abbas.  Would the Israelis torpedo an aging CVN in an act to usher in a wider Shitte-Sunni conflict?  WW1 when down because everything thought it was in heir best interest to go to war.

One sunk ready to be decommissioned (nuke) carrier blamed on Iran.  Oil price 3x.  All those gleaming Arab cities ($$$) must pick a side or perish - aligned against the Persians.  After that kind of strike, anything goes - including limited nuclear war.  We could not handle Iraq or Afpak.  What US general or admiral thinks provoking a proud, young 80 million nationalistic and mountain hiding people is a good idea.

And all of this on Obama's watch?  Who are Obama's people that want this conflict?

Remember the USS Liberty.

Watch the Enterprise.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 00:33 | 2164882 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

....remember the Main.....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:15 | 2164964 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

....and the Maine....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:08 | 2165035 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

....and the Mane....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:09 | 2165036 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

....and the Mein....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 02:28 | 2165061 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

World war three can and will be a very real possibility.

I am currently re-reading

"Day after midnight and Life after doomsday" to refresh my memory on US Prevailing winds, fall out and means to protect as best as possible against same.

I cannot do anything if a megaton bomb went off and delivered 3PSI or greater at the house but we are not meant to live forever.

There is supposed to be Elections in Iran on the 2nd March.

I appeal to the People of Iran to vote out the current Government. For all of our sakes and especially their own.

If the current regime is re-elected... well... it's show time and I don't think we will be sleeping much.

Some of the other books have targeting data from the cold war. Washington DC's diamond shape is covered in concentric circles of about 16 to 32 warheads in total. Each circle is 3 miles across more or less.

The result will be a total destruction of DC and about up to 60 miles radius of essentially no go. The fallout within a week will eliminate everything from Harrisburg all the way to Raliegh and points elsewhere.

Remember US Current doctrine to respond to a city that got hit with a enemy nuclear bomb. Those in the blast area are contained as deemed dead. Those in the intermediate area will try to escape for 24 hours or until fallout begins. Then it will be contained as a no go zone. The outer belt will be maintained to strictly prevent anyone from entering or exiting.

Now consider your own situation and consider various targets near you. Anything worth building in the USA is a target. Even the Hoover Dam, Indian Point or even Con Ed up by Niagara falls for example.

It will take months to a year to regain your footing.

The other thing about nukes is the ground. It will deliver to you a 7.0 or greater depending on where you are. Granite is a bitch while sandy soils not so much except for the blows.

I can go on... but choose to maintain a attitude that we will accept what the USA is trying to do and get thru this one way or the other.

I don't think we will like it much having to stack bodies on the porch... I hope it never comes to that. those will have to be burned or sickness will kill within a week or two.

Forget the hospitals too. Really. Write them off.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:10 | 2165247 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

HungrySeagull wrote:

I appeal to the People of Iran to vote out the current Government. For all of our sakes and especially their own.

If the current regime is re-elected... well... it's show time and I don't think we will be sleeping much.

Israel and the War Girls' Club (John McCain, Carl Levin, Holy Joe Lieberman, Rudy Giuliani, and Lindsay Graham) are all counting on the re-election of Ahmedinejad. They've all donated to MEK to help make it so.

Some of the other books have targeting data from the cold war. Washington DC's diamond shape is covered in concentric circles of about 16 to 32 warheads in total. Each circle is 3 miles across more or less.

The result will be a total destruction of DC and about up to 60 miles radius of essentially no go. The fallout within a week will eliminate everything from Harrisburg all the way to Raliegh and points elsewhere.

Do you really think Israel will nuke Vichy DC as long as all the military aid keeps flowing their way?


Thu, 02/16/2012 - 08:20 | 2165257 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Don't forget Alas Babylon, One Second After, and Patriots -3 different apocalyptic scenarios.  Personally, I expect the Iranians to go for door #3 -EMP strike from Venezuela (and their friends) or near by, but what do I know.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 18:53 | 2163907 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

Bang Bang Bitchez.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:08 | 2163941 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Nation is pretty left of center & doesn't pretend otherwise, and whether it's ultimately proven correct or not, I found the following article written by Robert Dreyfuss today to be very thought-provoking (I am absolutely independent, and I in fact blame the left and the right equally for the demise that has set in and downward trajectory that this nation is on).

At any rate, with that caveat in parentheses, I found this excerpt (link underneath) to be at least decent food for thought:


Dennis Ross Shoots Down War With Iran


In 2012, Dennis Ross, [via] his op-ed in the New York Times today all but closes the door on the idea of war against Iran in 2012 by either the United States or Israel.


It’s a surprise from Ross, a hawkish, neoconservative-leaning Middle East expert who served for three years as President Obama’s top adviser on the region. Though not a neocon himself, Ross is affiliated with the neoconservative-dominated Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), a pro-Israel think tank founded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in the 1980s. Off and on, since then, Ross has been part of WINEP. But he’s also a liberal Democrat who makes no effort to hide his overtly pro-Israel sympathies. That’s why, coming from him, his Times op-ed is important.


Titled “Iran Is Ready to Talk,” Ross argues that there’s no need to consider bombing Iran since economic sanctions appear to be working. As a result, he says, Iran is ready for diplomacy.


More significantly, he suggests that part of a deal with Iran could include continuing enrichment of uranium by Iran. That, right there, is the key to a US-Iran deal, as I’ve been writing for many years now, especially since I visited Iran in 2008 and 2009. Ross says it’s not inconceivable that Iran is ready to “accept a deal that uses intrusive inspections and denies or limits uranium enrichment to halt any advances toward a nuclear weapons capability, while still permitting the development of civilian nuclear power.” Note the use of the crucial phrase, “limits uranium enrichment.” All along, the win-win scenario for US-Iran diplomacy is for the United States to persuade Iran to accept “intrusive inspections” by the IAEA while accepting Iran’s right to enrich uranium. Bingo.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:09 | 2163955 Banksters
Banksters's picture

The Zionists will not accept inspectors.   



Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:33 | 2164348 john39
john39's picture

Not unlike the "peace process" with Palestinians. Its all show designed to fail so the Zionists can continue to steal land and destroy lives. But the world is catching on.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 01:11 | 2164957 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Help me out here, who are the "Zionists"?

Is Bibi a Zionist?


The Bernank?


Bush and family?

Obama? (Okay, sorry. We all know he's a placeholder.)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 04:17 | 2165139 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Here's how you can spot one.  Look in the nearest mirror.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:28 | 2164005 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Too bad it's not fundamentally about nukes. It's about the petrodollar. As with Iraq and Libya. And that fragment of the Chosen currently occupying Palestine demands absolute security, which means pre-emptive war against Iran. Add the two, Dennis Ross notwithstanding, and you get an Isramerican attack on Iran several months BEFORE the election. c. August, probably false-flagged by a Zionist attack on an American warship.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:38 | 2164035 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture



Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:22 | 2164508 Transformer
Transformer's picture

There is that little incident that happened with the Liberty.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 22:44 | 2164577 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I seem to remember something called the Lavon Affair, or Operation Susannah, or something, too.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 19:51 | 2164070 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I tend to agee it's centered around USD reserve status, IMO, while there are other factors that do bring it to a boil more quickly.

I agree with you that this was definitely a factor in Iraq and Libya, as well, although the actual fungible commodity of oil and the lack of fractional reserve central banks in both of those countries (prior to the wars upon them), along with the desire to build up long term military infrastructure in Iraq, were probably more important catalysts for those military actions (the jackals had failed to overthrow either Saddam or Colonel Q, despite years of efforts, so all that was left was the option of invading and bombing).

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!