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The Dummy's Guide To Healthcare
Initially presenting the potential problems of our current healthcare environment, the creator of 'the bears that explained Quantitative Easing' provides much food for thought on the unintended consequences of Obamacare (in all its 2700 page glory). For everything you need to know about how it devolved to this ("To understand healthcare in America, you have to think about bananas") and how to think about the new tax's potential implications (e.g. lower quality of service, capped hiring rates among employers), seven minutes well spent.
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keep sleeping beauty
but don't forget to mail in your fuckin taxes on time
Really, you get taxed on that??
Would you fucking be quiet. You are giving them ideas for more taxes.
+1...............HaHahahahaha...............
Canada has a population 1/10th of the US.... Some 35M people compared to 311M here. Statistics and situations are vastly different when you have an aging population (USA).
Whle the actual population numbers are different.
I would hazzard the 'guess' that the demographics are quite similar.
No they're not and I'm not talking about age.
As a Canadian who has lived in the US as well, I agree with sleeping beauty. Healthcare in Canada works for the most part and is largely supported by the population. I prefer that my tax dollars are going to support this as opposed to some other questionable government initiatives.
That being said, from what I have read about Obamacare, it is distinctly different from a single-payer system. I'm not sure how affordable it will be for all especially for the self-employed and small business owners. And forcing people to buy something from any corporation under threat of a "tax" just strikes me as wrong.
Yeah, even if you don't pay any money to go to the doctor, it still takes a couple hours. Half a day between the doctor and pharmacy for me. And with my insurance the doctor fee is $70 of which I pay $40. Similar with the pharmacy. That costs me $6k/year. My employer pays about the same. I am 50's - routine physical deductibles are so high with tests at that age that I spent $4,000 last year in addition to the $5,000 for the insurance and I wasn't even sick.
if it's a tax 51 Senators can alter it....spending bills are subject to simple majorities.
Bingo. Actually 50+ the VP is all they need...assuming of course the House and Prez cooperate. While Roberts substantially lowered the bar for rescinding obamacare legislatively, he made the Commerce Clause irrelevant. The gubmint can now do anything it wants if the Supreme Court is willing to call it a tax. Even the Congress doesn't have to call it a tax...and can DENY it is a tax. Scary.
Looks like I'll be having that colonoscopy after all. Infact, make mine a double.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Best comment of the day?
And 4 butch nurses with facial hair to flop you over on cue.
You might want to make that a triple with a hint of Versed.
Get it while they're still doing em with Versed.
Bring it in from both ways. Double the pleasure. Double the fun.
Personal responsibility for anything no longer exists. The nanny state will rock us from cradle to grave, only keeping us alive long enough to extract as much wealth/labor/energy as possible, then toss us aside as a used battery.
One step closer to a literal 'Matrix' sceanrio. Leviathan is churning along towards our destruction and we must disconnect.
Seems we are only left with the responsibility to dig our own graves.
my works pays for my insurance. i try to avoid the dr as much as possible and only go in when i have a problem. poor argument.
So, in YOUR case it is a poor arguement. However, I have personally known people that have done EXACTLY what is described in the video when they were able to obtain free, to them, healthcare. They felt they deserved to get as many free doctor visits and medical proceedures as they could while it was free, to them. I have coverage that includes a health savings account. I receive ZERO free healthcare until I have satisfied an annual $5000 out of pocket deductible. I only go to a doctor when I feel near death's door. Obamacare was written by the insurance company lobbyists and it shows.
you are right. that definitely happens. i haven't come across any quantification for either of our positions. i would guess though that most people like to avoid needles, mris, procedures, and waiting an hour or 2 for their 9 am appointment, and taking time off etc.
agree it was written for insurance. they just handed over 40 mln ppl to insurance industry.
single payer
they all got kindles and nooks or iPads - they can sit there all day in free A/C or Heat and wait
Obama = Monkey and Bananas
I have diabetes. Luckily, I am insured through my husband's work. Before Obamacare I would not be insurable should my husband lose his job. Now with obamacare I will be covered. Change you can believe in!!! Affordable health care for EVERYONE!
Only time will tell if this health care is affordable. I have, long ago, stopped being so foolish as to believe a word that comes out of these politicians mouth's.
Based on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xOXAebBNQg I would assume you believe some of what he is saying but neglected to pay attention to what came out the other side of his mouth.
I am sorry to hear of your medical problems, but fuck you very much if you think that I should help you pay for them.
I'd be happy to pay for my own insurance if they would let me. Current system calls me uninsurable.
Clarifying -- he said pay for your medical problems not pay for your insurance. Most doctors offices take cash, check or credit cards.
I know -- you have no intention to pay for your medical care. Someone else should contribute.
I like to help folks financially (and do) - but it has always been harder for me to do so when they demand it.
Looks like you have more than diabetes.
Probably should have taken better care of yourself. Started by eating right. Now you expect somebody else to pay for the results of your bad habits.
Jackass.
I know three people who are diabetics and are either of average weight or average to thin and have been so all of their lives.
There are environmental factors that can cause diabetes that have nothing to do with diet.
In one case the woman suffered a severe flu-like virus and became diabetic shortly aftwards. She was young, thin and in her early 20s without a history of alcohol or drug abuse.
Google virus and diabetes and then take your sanctimonious reply and stick it.
But is it right to force their problems on me? That's exactly what you are doing.
It's no different than any other chronic disease contracted by accident or through environmental factors.
For some idiot reason, insurers have chosen this among other similar diseases to be a "pre-existing condition" and made it the new boogey man in the health care debate.
And as air and water quality standareds decline, you may find yourself the next sufferer of the next boogey-man disease that idiots want to rant and rave about as being too costly to cover and then try to blame the victim to divert attention from where it belongs.
Good luck with that.
Buy a lot of hand sanitizer, wear a mask and goggles, use expensive water filters and start growing your own organic food now.
The recommended 6-11 servings of carbohydrates a day in the USDA Food Pyramid + stupid retards shoveling outrageous amounts of pure sugar into their veins = diabeeetus.
Some of you really are idiots.
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009/03/study-identifies-virus-linked...
March 10, 2009Study Identifies Virus Linked to Both Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes
Last week's Science News directed my attention to a fascinating new study. I could not find the actual study posted online, but I did find this excellent article provided by the UK NHS which gives more information about it than you will find in the abstract when it comes out:...
Yes, both Type 1 and 2.
The virus is a cause of diabetes, but is it a major one?
I normally like Dr Engali's post a lot.Type I/IDDM is likely secondary to a viral infection,with atnibodies crossreacting with the insulin producing cells.Type II,in which obesity and diet play alot is partly genetic.Blame also goes to agrobusiness and fast food industry.
No you dolt, making the insurers cover people like you (with all deference to your illness) forces the insurers to increase rates on people like me. "Affordable" healthcare my ass.
I'll say it slowly. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. And when the system is forced to onboard unhealthy people like you, I have to subsidize it.
I got type II. My doctor told me how to get off the meds for free. He told me to stop feeding my fat face and get off my ass and start walking.
You know what......he was right. Did not cost me a dime.
This is just moronic.
Explain to me how someone who just had a heart attack, stroke, got hit by a car is supposed to "shop" for health insurance.
Explain to me how someone who needs to undergo emergency surgery can "price out" services related to their operation and follow up care.
No, your thinking is all wrong.
Think on this.
You are hit by a bus and shipped to surgery.
The operation is not a success due to various botched phonetagging with the insurance.
You are a living veggie or at best a semi conscious wreck displaying signs of mental damage. Why? Because they clubbed you to submission rather than use expensive sedation. Hell the pain you suffered from clubbing is gone from the Demerol they give you after and just prior to the shot of Profofol.
The Hospital will do their best to keep you alive for weeks, months and years. As a source of revenue.
Any sign of rebellion and anger on your part is easily managed with Chemical Restraints.
At least until the Bedsores finally infect and then kill you.
And I thought the old Robin Cook's medical thriller "Coma" was the biggie.
The same way people shop for other forms of insurance coverage (home,auto,etc...). Before they might need it.
Yeah.
Well, when you're missing an arm or a leg I'll be sure to hand you the cell phone so you can call around and shop for services.
And when you're unconscious it's a little tough, but I'm sure a smart guy like you can figure it out.
And if you live in a rural area where there is only one provider, I guess you'll be able to drive to the nearest SMSA with two or three providers to "shop" before you die.
Just remember that those 60 mins. in the "Golden Hour" tick away awfully fast moron.
What part of before don't you understand?
LOL. Along with "before," I think he should look up "obtuse."
No kidding. Socialists = " I naval gaze therefore everybody else naval gazes or should be forced to".
What part of there's "no place to shop" due to consolidation in the industry don't you understand?
When not in an urban area that may have 2+ providers, rural people are stuck with either one provider or one provider with 80-90% of market share and a weak competitior than has no real network of service.eet
Get a clue.
LOL. A socialist hick.
Another urban moron...
"urban moron"?! You're the one griping about living in the sticks and not having any choices while concurrently supporting the limiting of choices which is what socialized medicine leads too. Lol.
"When not in an urban area that may have 2+ providers, rural people are stuck with either one provider or one provider with 80-90% of market share and a weak competitior than has no real network of service.eet"
And who's fault is that? Guess who? Big gov again.
No no no. You need much monee, then go bang bang. As far as shopping, there are no other girls.
You must be an industry shill AND an urban moron...
>>>From 2009 when this debate began--
>>>SEC has reported that the 10 largest health insurers have reported a profit of 428% from 2000 to 2007. Health insurance CEOs averaged 11.9 million in compensation every year. The Labor Dept. Consumer Index has reported a 4.4% increase in health insurance for the 12 months ending in June–that on top of a 4.2% increase from the previous year. Wages in the private sector rose only 1.6%. Watson Wyatt 2 to 5-year survey show that employers expect salaries increases to remain the same or decrease...<<<
This is hardly Big Govs fault.
Try again shill...or just admit that they want to reduce service and jerk up rates to make more money.
Clearly yes, by paying medical providers the government must be reducing the number of medical providers because they don't want the money. If the government did not pay them, then they would open up many more offices so they could lose money.
The cartoon guy clearly explained it makes no sense to have sick people shopping around for insurance. You do the shopping before you need the insurance...just like with home or car owners. If every healthy young person wasn't forced to pay exhorbitant premiums to cover against prostate cancer, drug addiction, and anal warts, no doubt many would gladly spring for the cheap major medical type policies that protect against unexpected tragedies...you know, like actual insurance is supposed to be.
The cartoon guy advocates charity to protect the truly unfortunate who can't get coverage. Before gov't started poking its nose into every aspect of life, private charities in the US were vibrant. Read "The Tragedy of American Compassion."
>>>You do the shopping before you need the insurance.<<<
I can tell you've never done this as an individual living in a rural area...or as someone who has had prior treatment for some relatively minor health problem.
So, go stick your ass out in the sticks, explain to the one insurance company that has a network in your area that you haVe been treated for an ulcer or sinus infections or something else relatively common.
Let me know how that goes for you and just how your "shopping experience" saved you so much money...if they didn't just decline to cover you at all.
Flattrader this is already after the fact that the system is a fraud, the insurance companies deny treatment for the bottom line and make money hand over fist as well as the HMOs and government.
They don't care about people they care about money.
Having worked for a health insurer I can absolutely corroborate they don't give a shit about people at all. Most miserable place I've ever worked. Words can't describe the joy I felt handing in my resignation.
And what kind of insurance is that? I have a 21 yo kid who needs an operation through no fault of his own that will probably cost $100K. The insurance company doesn't want to pay and he has one of the better polices. I will pay for it myself most likely but what if he didn't have a parent with money? Well, he would just be disabled for life.
I know I am going to sound like an asshole, but back in the day you would have gotten a second job, your husband/wife would have gotten a second job. You would have sold your car. YOUR parents would have helped. Your sibling would have taken care of your younger kids while you did it.
And because malpractice insurance was not out of this world expensive, the price would have been $50,000.
Yeah, that would have sucked for you. But why do you want it to suck for both of us?
And really, no....I don't want to pay for your kids operation. i know thats bad karma, but I have my own two kids I am worrying about.
Not complaining about my case. I am fortunate enough to be able to pay for it. If it was someone else who didn't have parents who could. Consider the costs. In my state, it costs about $150,000 to send a kid through high school. College another $120,000. Parents cost up to $200,000 in addition. So societal investment in a 22 year old kid about half a million. Then you let him be disabled for life at a cost of ?? vs operation $100K. Makes no financial sense.
More financial sense than one of my nephews who got sent to Iraq and disabled for life by a land mine at a cost of about %5 million but still no sense.
You don't know what will happen to your kids. Maybe one of them will get leukemia or something else. Then you will be wishing you had Euro style health care. I know several people basically bankrupted by their kids medical costs - Down's Syndrome, leukemia, autism.
These are low probability events. If everyone has health insurance, it can be covered. So Obamacare makes some sense even though it was coopted by existed moneymakers and hugely more expensive than single payer system. Why can't the government just send 100,000 smart kids to medical school and pay them $100K/year.
Have you considered having the treatment done in another country?
Hmm, it seems my HSA is going to be going out the window. I guess I better get my money out of it before it is MFG'd.
You the same guy paid $50 an ounce for silver. Who would listen to you/? HAHAHAHAHAAH
50 or 30 or 7. It matters not as long you own it.
When THEY need it.
Regarding the Insurance, there are whole armies of drones slowly working the paper from desk to desk. Either that or emailing back and forth.
And use call centers in Bombay India to keep your INSURED ASS off their valuable time.
In one of my Cold War readings, Washington DC is presented as a Diamond schematic completely covered in 36 separate rings of fire indicating the targeting with nuclear weapons of this city will be designed to cremate the place.
There are going to be hundreds of thousands of survivors slowly realizing the community hospital is in the sticks with glass everywhere and dead/dying staff and unable to treat anyone.
I live down here in the old Titan Country and there is hardly any hospitals worth a damn other than downtown which would be the first to go as it contains a nexus of 5 pipelines vital to the Nation along with a telecommunications nexus tower as well.
i've bought at: 11, 14, 19, 27, 38, 45, 35, 32, 29.
you've somehow managed to completely miss the point of holding physical.
Bring on the death panels...
We already have death panels. and have for some time...or haven't you been paying attention?
make it a game show to pay for the ones that live
Welcome to communism American style.
49ers
wow, there seems to be an epidemic of the stoopid in this country.
What we have doesnt work, Obamacare is more of the same but at least it reigns in insurance companies, but at the same time entrenches them So its not a long term solution
Single payer is the way to go, as other countries have shown. Lower cost, better outcomes. But people are too easily swayed in this country by propaganda and bullshit by the special interest.
and please, dont say the lawsuits and allowing insurance companies to compete nationwide will change anything. Lawsuits account for less than 1 to 2 % of all healthcare cost in this country, and last I checked NO state has good insurance premiums, so who cares if I can get CA healthcare? its all is overly expensive junk.
SO single payer IS proven to be the way to go, but too many idiots have been already programmed to spew " socialism" communism and other stupid fucking phrases at its very utterance.
I just wish we had a cure for the stoopid...
What we have doesn't work.
But don't kid yourself.
The health care industry/insurance companies are cheering this.
It brings even more people into the fold.
I agree, it was a corporate give away. But at least for the time being, its a slightly better bad situation.
I hope so daddy.
I could use some hope.
I would also favor a single payer system. There are pragmatic reasons that include maintaining an overall healthier population. It could even help minimize pandemics.
But like PM Churchill said..."leave it to the Americans to do the right thing. After they have tried everything else".
We cannot turn everything over to the gods of profit. They showed that with privatized water around the world in the 80s. Although I fear that will be rasing it's ugly head yet again. And soon.
What about the notion of individual liberty? Or you're fine throwing that away because our current system sucks.
Sad.
US has less individual liberty than almost any other developed country and almost all of them have universal health care.
US has worst internet privacy.
US has by far highest percentage of people in jail, mostly for things like having some pot.
US gets no choice at national elections relative to other countries where you can vote for Greens, Socialist, even Communists and maybe have it matter.
Freedom to get sick with no medical care is not liberty.
More US citizens fighting wars in foreign countries than anywhere else.
US citizens pay more to fight wars than anyone else.
"...maintaining an overall healthier herd." FIFY
"But at least for the time being, its a slightly better bad situation." Wow, that's a ringing endorsement. Sure, let's do away with individual liberties, force people into buying a product, and tax people for simply breathing at a cost well over $1.5 trillion (when we're broke) ... just to get a "slightly better bad situation."
GFY.
"I just wish we had a cure for the stoopid..."
We do. It's called reality and it's starting to cure Europe right now.
so you think Europe having lower cost and better outcomes in the healthcare industry is some how causing them problems?
You are example A of what Im talking about.
Do you actually live in Europe? Because I do and I can tell you, the waiting lists are very long lowering the quality for everyone, and the taxes to pay for this low quality are very high (+ much of government debt is caused by the so called great 'free' health care). The current problems in Europe are for a large part caused by all this govt spending.
It all sounds good on paper and at the surface, but in reality it's really a nightmare.
you are completely full of shit and a liar. Take your bullshit somewhere else. Real Europeans and Canadians gasp at horror at our system and wouldnt trade places with us at any cost.
LOWER COST, higher outcome, ist proven.
US = we pay the most and have the 34 best care. FACT
I'm sorry if my reality does not fit your dreamworld.
Cheers !
Top healthcare systems in the world
hmm top 30 and NO US1 France 2 Italy 3 San Marino 4 Andorra 5 Malta 6 Singapore 7 Spain 8 Oman 9 Austria 10 Japan 11 Norway 12 Portugal 13 Monaco 14 Greece 15 Iceland 16 Luxembourg 17 Netherlands 18 United Kingdom 19 Ireland 20 Switzerland 21 Belgium 22 Colombia 23 Sweden 24 Cyprus 25 Germany 26 Saudi Arabia 27 United Arab Emirates 28 Israel 29 Morocco 30 Canada
LOL - Well then go to Morocco for your healthcare needs!
10% of Americans have a passport. The vast majority of Americans know exactly NOTHING about the rest of the world. Americans I talk to still think that it's 1950 and America's standard of living is still far above everyone else's. It is quite possible that better healthcare can be obtained in Morocco. As it turns out my GP comes from Morocco. So I live in the USA and I have Morocco-esque health care.
The Icelanders mental health care costs dropped dramatically after they ran out their bankers
As I said before, if the population is low, socialism and socialized health care will be fabulous in any country until expenses start to explode out of control because there is no one to pay the banksters back.
I AM the one with facts, all you have is a brain thats been mindfucked by rightwing radio douchebags.
shirley, you must be trolling.
Gasp at horror? You mean like this ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html#ixzz1z7AvlN3h
that wait itmes is pure bullshit propaganda.
then you all should spend that time waiting by reading some medical textbooks on them dar iPads and get your doctorate via Phoenix U
You're right about lawsuits accounting for 1-2%, however they have driven up provider's insurance costs (passed on to us of course). Also, with a system rife with lawsuits, providers practice defensive medicine by performing many questionable tests just so they don't get sued. That drives up costs.
You mentioned but didn't address the idea of letting insurance companies compete nationwide. Why wouldn't that help?
Single-payer is no panacea. Most folks who advocate such programs are indeed socialists, since they believe government should be providing health care directly or indirectly. I have lived in the UK. If you think a single-payer system is the answer, you should try living in a country that has such a system. I won't say health care or health insurance in the US is without serious problems, but single-payer systems have problems as well. I mean, why do you think Europe is bankrupt?
The weakness in ACA is that it does nothing whatsoever to curb every-rising health care costs. In fact, it rolls up every bit of waste and inefficiency, not to mention crony capitalistic influences, into a newer bigger mess. The only legitimat reason to pass a bill liek this was as a cost containment measure. Since ACA supporters never even paid lip service to that as a reason, the real reason becomes clear: an expansion of government power.
Yes, you might have to wait a long time for certain things in a single payer system. But does not the UK also have private insurers and medical providers? So if you don't want to wait you can just pay.
Waiting is a hell of a lot better than nothing which is what many US citizens have to look forward to.
And you are not waiting to get antibiotics for an infection, it's for things like artificial hip, etc.
Yes, and you are the prime example, dumbfuck. If you don't comment, people may only suspect you are stupid, but your posts prove it beyond all doubt. Have a nice day.
"Obamacare is more of the same but at least it reigns in insurance companies"
And you are calling others stupid? Seems to me you are FUBAR.
How much have health costs risen annually over the last 30 years?
And how many incentives were put into Obamacare to slow the increase?
NONE
Great video. Unfortunately, the greater part of the American population hasn't got a clue about supply and demand so this will go right over their head.
if your house was on fire, do you think you would have time to shop price for the best fire company? We tried private fire companies in the 19th century, it was a complete fucking disaster. Healthcare is NOTHING like bananas, its a stupid analogy.
Competition lowers the price.of services across the board. You're just proving what I said above.
not in this case. Counties, large corps, etc CONSTANTLY shop for the best deal in health insurance for their people. Do you see healthcare going down these last few decades?
FYI- Fire companies have been SOCIALIZED for better part of a hundred or so years, and work well.
I disagree with you there. The cost of that socialized service goes up every year with each renewal levee and additional levee. In fact, it has (in every city I have lived in) gone up at a faster clip than that of inflation.
BECAUSE OF FUCKING healthcare cost.
privatization is not cheaper nor more efficient in certain areas. Once again FACT.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/22/sandy-springs-georgia-privatize...
Enjoy
how about you actually investgate more about that place, the article white washes and leaves out many figures. This place has been shown not to be able to save money, only buy cutting services and lowerering standards.
FACT!
still only works because of socialism. Individuals do not shop for a trash collector, fire dept, police dept, etc etc
Hogwash. My area does NOT have socialized garbage pick up. My rates have stayed the same for 5 years. There are three to five different private contractors we can use.
Back when I had socialized garbage pick up, the cost of taxes to pay for that particular piece went up all seven years I lived there. Whatever. Fuck the libs.
We have private trash collection in my area, and believe me, we shop around for it. Whenever a new provider with lower rates leaves flyers on our doorsteps, that provider is pretty much guaranteed to be picking up most of the trash the next week. I'm still paying the same rate for trash collection as I was ten years ago because of the competition.
I have private trash collection and private firefighting and private emergency (health) services. This is at the town level. At the county and state level are some socialized services. There are no local police services, but they do exist at the county level, though I have never seen them except when setting up speed traps. On my property if a structure catches on fire, I or the the private local firefighting force puts the fire out. If a tree catches on fire the state government puts it out. Health care including emergency services is all private.
plus its still not as if you dont pay taxes, the town just now outsources certain jobs. Still socialism
Spot on.
Good luck figuring out what an operation, or a stay in the hospital, will cost you. Go ahead and give it a try. Obamacare has nothing to do with this fucked up system.
And Obama care is more about getting more people covered than it is about saving money. Anybody who was paying attention would already know that.
Maybe if some right wingers out there really do care about costs (all of a sudden) you might reconsider single payer. LMAO
As an FYI...do keep in mind.
The Heritage Foundation (conservative think tank) first came up with this.
Nixon propose it also.
Romney implemented it in Mass.
But NOW it's a commie plot.
LOL
Fuck the Heritage Foundation, fuck Nixon, fuck Romney. There, now am I entitled to voice my displeasure for being forced to purchase a certain product and being taxed for siimply being alive?
Let's see.
We can establish a Facebook like app for that.
People who have been through the system of Hospital stays etc can post the bills online for all to see.
The last time I used a ER it was right around 5K by the time everyone got thier bill in. (Hospital, ER Doctor, Pharmacy, Lab, Blood vampire, supplies, linen, out of state lab work etc etc etc.)
and that was before you are determined to be admitted or not. If you were admitted depending on your condition, it will be about a thousand per day up to a little over 10,000 depending on how much care you require. PER DAY.
A friend was stabbed and was sent to Shock Trauma. 5 days cost right round 98,000 dollars.
The law is a cop out. The problem in the sytem is cost, Period. How is the current system going to change the fact that such a large percentage of total health care expenditures are on the indigent and otherwise incapacitated that show up at the ER dozens of times per year. How are they going to "tax" some guy living out of his car or some immigrant who may not be legal - like those shown in the TV program on the Camden Coalition. More Coalitions like this are needed but they clearly show the the healthcare system is not interested in lowering the costs and the government is torn over long-term solvency vs. short term hits to GDP growth rates.
Generally speaking I find most on ZH to be anti-corruption and proponents of liberty and self determination. With that, I've been quite surprised with all of the pro Obamacare posts/votes the last two days. I couldn't figure out why many who are apparently against government running our lives would be for the individual mandate (and consequently tax us for simply being alive).
I think it comes down to this - people are so fed up with the corrupt central banking cartels that they figure, fuck it, if they are going to abuse the system at my expense, then I'll abuse the system too even if it means taking what's not mine (from the producers in this country, of course). Tit for tat. Two wrongs don't make a right. Bernanke et al are surely screwing us, but that in no way should be justification for screwing your fellow citizens by demanding they pay for your healthcare.
Or maybe that's the way the politicians designed it - make the system so corrupt that, in time, it corrupts the dignified.
I understand the concept of "getting my share of the pie" before the whole thing falls apart. However, people like crawldiddy expect free shit to rain down from the heavens forever... with no consequences.
Not going to happen.
Ignore the instigator crawldaddy - obviously a troll......or maybe he's really the med'ed up John Roberts.
That's a very generous assessment. The moral hazard TPTB have institutionalized have moved people in the wrong direction. A process as old as man.
It's always good to understand others positions and opinions. I don't know if I like the affordable care act or not - since it isn't in effect yet. That said, the video above seems to present incredibly simplistic potential unintended consequences - some of which may come to be and others which may not. By the very nature of unitinended consequences, we just don;t know them all before they happen. That which is missing? A better solution.
Not sure what this may bring, but I'm absolutely sure I have no desire to go back in time and fight the same fight when there are more pressing matters to be dealt with. Lies to the left of me, jokers on my right - here I am stuck in the middle with you!
http://www.strike-the-root.com/92/allport/allport1.html
read: http://mises.org/daily/3650/What-Soviet-Medicine-Teaches-Us
“Having said that, I should make it clear that the United States has one of the highest rates of the industrialized world only because it counts all dead infants, including premature babies, which is where most of the fatalities occur.”
This paragraph from above link basically explains why Cuba is rated “higher” than US and how all these IQ-challenged persons (aka idiots) believe that Cuba for ex. and Soviet Union, the former and current former-member countries report “correct” numbers. Same goes for other, non-Soviet countries ranked higher than USA in healthcare.
I just looked at my birth certificate. It was issued by Ukraine while under Soviet occupation. What’s telling is that my birth was registered and recorded one day AFTER A FULL MONTH since my birth…
Why do you ask?
Well, because if I was going to die, chances are (99.9999%) it would have happened in the first 30 days of my life. Therefore, to count as a birth both registered and reportable, they (Soviets) simply waited a month. If you die before a month, your death don’t count!!! If you die after the birth certificate was issued then your infant mortality event is counted and reported (still maybe back in those days). Sadly, this practice and similar waiting periods exists in lots of countries ranked higher than USA to this day.
The sinister part of it though, is that with socialized medicine comes socially engineered reporting. Read that again.
So, as a result, watch USA catapult in the rankings NOT BECAUSE of improved outcomes BUT BECAUSE of coming social engineering in the reporting mechanisms that come with socialized medicine by default.
One only needs to look at CPI and unemployment number manipulation. Why? Because it shows that our government is not only capable of manipulation, but WILL do it when needed for the “greater” good.
June, 28th 2012. The day America I came to ended and a new era (aka 1920s/30s Germany) began. Be aware and simply survive this period. It all ends the same. Don’t end with it.
To crawl idiot and other statists - why stop at healthcare? Housing is a necessity. Now the government can mandate we buy a home (or be taxed, sorry, fined if we don't). Food is also a necessity. Shit, if the government can now define what is a necessity, then what's to stop them from deeming a car a necessity.
You're way too quick to give infinite power to our rulers.
You forgot their deeming it a necessity to kill you....
Solvent Green...
Logan's Run....
maybe o figures if wars can jumpstart economies, why cant mass increases in medical spending
I want to work at Goldman Sachs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx4poQw1mZo&feature=related
Friday June 29 12:03pm
57 min.
http://archive.wbai.org/#ankor3
. cartel exposed repeatedly.
Yeah, but Canada's population is aging faster than ours. Canada's system, while semi-socialized, has price controls and rationing. That puts a lid on demand. And the system is not highly biased toward expensive care for the elderly -- they just don't get the elaborate interventions that we do in US hospitals.
Unfortunately, no one is talking about cost, and about the "war on the young" that disfigures America today.
##### ATTENTION DOCTORS #####
##### IT IS TIME TO RETIRE #####
They are retiring. In droves.
And putting 30 million more folks into the pipeline without significantly adding more doctors is just idiotic.
Exactly who are these sick folks going to see? And if you think the Docs pay little attention today....wait until the waiting rooms are full of these folks.
Stop smoking and go on the diet today.
"And putting 30 million more folks into the pipeline without significantly adding more doctors is just idiotic."
We've had a doctor shortage and an extremely restricted pipeline for producing doctors for my entire life. It's bullshit. This is the first thing to be dealt with in any reform whether you are a capitalist or a socialist.
People need to understand ALL the reasons the predators want total control of the so-called "health care system". One purpose is to have a semi-invisible way to KILL off masses of people, both specific individuals, and certain classes of individuals based upon their age, race, health, religion, political views or other factors that can be selectively targeted with specific drugs, or simply by orders from the top.
It is no accident that a large percentage of products that contain high fructose corn syrup also contain mercury, which causes the kind of brain damage favored by the predators DBA government --- cluelessness and dimwittedness. It is also no accident that many of the government forced innoculations contain mercury and other nasty health and brain destroying chemicals.
Make no mistake, anyone with ANY brains will REFUSE to receive ANY so-called health care even now... and in spades once this forced atrocity is fully implemented. One of the most obscene tragedies of mankind, which assures that mankind is FINISHED, is that the vast, vast, vast majority of "professionals" will do whatever the predators DBA name-your-authority tells them to do, even when they KNOW they are harmful and entirely opposite of their claimed purpose (like "health-care versus health-destruction", like "freedom and patriotism versus global slavery", etc.
As long as mankind is the most utterly and overwhelmingly dishonest creature in the history of the universe, his fate will continually degrade until everyone will be miserable beyond belief, and eventually, dead. Good riddens human beings - 99.99% of you deserve what you get. The other 0.01% of honest, benevolent beings better get the hell out of dodge and hide in the boonies until they can escape this planet, if that day every happens.
They are retiring. In droves.
And putting 30 million more folks into the pipeline without significantly adding more doctors is just idiotic.
Exactly who are these sick folks going to see? And if you think the Docs pay little attention today....wait until the waiting rooms are full of these folks.
Stop smoking and go on the diet today.
Insurance is socialism and just like socialism it is in a constant state of failure as it seeks even more monetary redistribution from those who have it to those who need it. They have always claimed that they require 100% participation for the system to work, all the while experiencing greater failure as they approach their goal. The only reason anyone would purchase insurance is because it is perceived to cost less than paying for the service. How is that concept sustainable unless someone else is paying for it? The only thing that has ever demonstrated the ability to minimize costs in a sustainable period is competition. Most public monopolies that we see are assumed to be the most effecient because they have never had to compete and their effeciencies have been assumed and "proven" only through economic theory.
I'm a physician, and let me tell you, I'm dropping out in many ways.
This whole country is filled with lies.
More Equity Rally Expected.
Any traders predicting a multi month equity rally apart from me ?
As of today I am.
Last week was the turning point.
Significant equity upside expected this year according to my analysis.
However the SPX big picture remains very bearish and unfortunately this will not change.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-24/market-analysis
Since the fine is less than the actual insurance, people will opt for that. Even if they refuse to pay the fine, what's the IRS going to do, send you letters? Wait until you get really sick, then buy an insurance policy. If you can't get insurance, just go to the ER.
That's probably what most people will do. Disaster...