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Egan Jones Downgrades US From AA To AA-
From Egan Jones, who downgraded the US for the first time ever last July, two weeks ahead of S&P:
Synopsis: UNITED STATES (GOVT OF) EJR Sen Rating(Curr/Prj) AA-/ N/A Rating Analysis - 9/14/12 EJR CP Rating: A1+ Debt: $15.2B EJR's 1 yr. Default Probability: 1.2%
Up, up, and away - the FED's QE3 will stoke the stock market and commodity prices, but in our opinion will hurt the US economy and, by extension, credit quality. Issuing additional currency and depressing interest rates via the purchasing of MBS does little to raise the real GDP of the US, but does reduce the value of the dollar (because of the increase in money supply), and in turn increase the cost of commodities (see the recent rise in the prices of energy, gold, and other commodities). The increased cost of commodities will pressure profitability of businesses, and increase the costs of consumers thereby reducing consumer purchasing power. Hence, in our opinion QE3 will be detrimental to credit quality for the US.
Some market observers contend that a country issuing debt in its own currency can never default since it can simply print additional currency. However, per Reinhart & Rogoff's " This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly " , p.111, 70 out of 320 defaults since 1800 have been on domestic (i.e., local currency) public debt. Note, US funding costs are likely to slowly rise as the global economy recovers or the FED scales back its Treas. purchases (75% recently).
From 2006 to present, the US's debt to GDP rose from 66% to 104% and will probably rise to 110% a year from today under current circumstances; the annual budget deficit is 8%. In comparison, Spain has a debt to GDP of 68.5% and an annual budget deficit of 8.5%. We are therefore downgrading the US country rating from "AA" to "AA-".
Ratings History:
Egan-Jones rating history for United States (Govt of).
9.14.12 AA to AA (-)
4.15.12 AA+ to AA (Negative outlook)
7.16.11 AAA to AA+
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But...but...we haven't raised taxes on dividends yet. Not fair EJ! The economy will be just fine. Please re-evaluate after reading this http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-defend-dividends-2012-09-14?dist=countdown
definitely double A -
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2012/09/nsfw-kate-middleton-naked-nude-p...
LOL
I would'nt give any "credit" to that.
A = Almost boob
B = Barely there
C = Can do
D = Damn!
E = Enormous
F = Fake
E/J, always ahead of the pack.
Makes no diff....we are in an asylum where the nutcases (led by Bernanke and Krugman) are running the show while the people who make sense are tied to the electric chair awaiting their fate.
"No risk of that."
~Tim G.
"in our opinion QE3 will be detrimental to credit quality for the US"
How could anyone ever possibly come to that conclusion? After all, it is unlmited.
Bernanke's Royal Mess!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DsSmMBWBdE
Quantitative Easing Explained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=fvwrel
Quantitative Easing Revisited
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_289029&feature=iv&src_vid=PTUY16CkS-k&v=oGIvw7T0GPI
U.S. bond ratings are about as trustworthy as our foreign policies: rate them all "A", for apology.
What a joke this is.
OK, so the buyer is "guaranteed to get their money back". I get that. But at what inflation-adjusted basis?
Would a corporate bond that returns to the buyer just 50% of their principal value at maturity be rated AA-???
Turd you're talking about megalomaniacs that deny inflation even exists.
Speaking of megalomanics, where is Timmy these days?
gett'n ready to bail.
He's running apparently running in triatholons.
Can the corporate print his own money to pay it? If yes, AAA.
I think that's how it works.
I'm naming my first wheelbarrow The Egan Jones.
I gotta run to the bathroom to drop a bernanke.
the geithner is the one that drops after the bernanke, it's smaller and not as well formed
.
"Some market observers contend that a country issuing debt in its own currency can never default since it can simply print additional currency."
I like how EJ throws in this dig against the MMT'ers.
B-b-but the Emperor is adorned in solid gold regalia! And WTF Egan? Are you trying to force the Vampire Squid's third tentacle aka the SEC to put the squeeze on you again?
Hey Turd, when are you going to let people like me come back to your blog anyway?
Banning people is a joke. ZH posters paved your way, never forget that.
Over the past few years, the doom sayers have been pretty might spot on about everything. Those telling us that everything is fine are consistently wrong.
The experts are always saying things like "unexpected increase in unemployment (for 3 straight years). The experts are always saying things like "this is the summer of recovery" and "there is no risk of inflation".
The experts (read "fake reality cheerleaders") are wrong and the doom sayers are right. We would be fools to believe this trend will not continue.
Every horrible thing that has been predicted to happen will happen:
Hyperinflation
Riots
Starvation
Cannibalism
Famine
Disease
Societal collapse.
Have a nice day, enjoy the few good ones we have left.
Meet Jon Corzine's Daughter
Corzine's bloodline runs deep.
EJ did this because they watched Innocence of Muslims
"EJ did this because they watched Innocence of Muslims"
This is OBVIOUSLY a terror attack directed at our media-beloved President! SEND IN THE DRONES!
In a related story, Federal Reserve bankers from each of the 12 district banks, along with the SEC, have begun a demonstration at the headquarters of Egan Jones and have begun to burn effigies of rating agencies, along with burning piles of Federal Reserve Notes. Paul Krugman noted that this should be positive for aggregate demand and should generate a GDP growth that will take the US out of the depression.
Back to Kelly and our entertainment team to talk about Kate Middelton's nipples. Kelly........
EJ dissed Obamy. Obamy gots to put a cap in EJ. Plus Obamy's homey, Fittie Cent is now valued at Fortie Cent!
I was going to ask rhetorically "Why does Egan Jones hate freedom and America?"
But I see you beat me to it with the answer.
Well played.
Does this mean QE4 on deck?
No, they knew sequential numbering would get out of hand, so they just made the last one open-ended. And to think, we laughed at Zimbabwe. They are now our model.
how could it not? we're now debasing our currency, but doing so to buy MBS (damn, the banks really must be on the verge of collapse) instead of funding our govt. so we made bonds even less atractive to buyers, but didn't supply the additional uptake that will be needed. we're so freaking doomed. the primary dealers aren't going to buy bonds at this yield if they can't flip them right back to the Fed - so the Fed will soon add $40B in unending bond purchases too.
Sorry, azzhatter. You must have missed the news. QE4 has baby arms, so QEternity is pinch-hitting and already at bat. He'll never score a hit, though, and an endless series of fouls is a sure bet.
QE infinity is already here. No numbers needed at this point.
I cant wait to pay off my mortgage with a $1,000,000 dollar bill that I earned by working 2 hours.
Of course, I might need that 1M note to buy food for my kids. Tough decisions ahead.
"I cant wait to pay off my mortgage with a $1,000,000 dollar bill that I earned by working 2 hours."
Ah, but The Bernank is going to implement Operation Gold Twist...you know, so the bankers just get paid off with non-money, and so the Fed can loan real, fiat paper money to the Sheeple, who of course being utter geniuses, will see that gold is worthless shiny crap that should be sold to pawn shops and other buyers springing up everywhere, and that dollars are king. Like the Bernank said, "It's not money if I can't print it."
Once you do pay off that house, be sure to rent it out. With the Fed pumping all that money into housing, it's going to 1) cause housing prices to go higher than they would have and price people out of owning, 2) cause banks to not feel so rushed about selling these assets now sure to be propped up ad infinitum, 3) cause banks to start writing mortgages with principle payments pegged to inflation, and hence 4) force people to have to rent instead of buy.
Owning is for Mr. Landlord, and they're not going to give you a loan! Now be a good little tenant and pay your $500,000,000,000 rent and quit whining about the broken hot water heater. You can't afford to heat it anyway.
ARE THE SHEEPLE DISTRACTED ENOUGH BY THE MIDDLE EAST ATTACKS TO NOT BE PAYING ATTENTION TO ALL THE ECONOMIC DOOM NEWS??
Obama sure hopes so....
Middle East attacks? Did you see that fucking trick play by the Packers last night? Holy shit that was awesome.
And Brittney Spears is BACK!!! Tits and ass, man TITS AND ASS!!!
That was a conspiracy against Kate...
A sexy and obviously cold one at that. Cold hard cash and cold hard nipples. Which will the American public spend more time pondering. My silver is on the latter or half dollar titty grabber.
photo link?
Have fun.
http://jahkno.com/2012/09/15/nsfw-kate-middleton-nude-topless-photos-clo...
"Obama sure hopes so...."
The compliant (with whatever POS is in office) MSM will make sure of that. All these "journalists" need to be on The Lists come the Ides of March (3-15-2012) when Americans take to the streets. We're going to need a lot of rope.
CNN's subtitle below Marc Rubio as he discussed opposition to taypayer funded birth control: "Against Women's Choice on Birth Control" (not "Rubio Opposed to Taxpayer-Funded Birth Control")
CNN's subtitile below Sandra Fluke as she preached to the DNC: "Miss Fluke Supports Access to Birth Control" (not "Fluke Demands Taxpayer- Funded Birth Control", or better yet, the really accurate one, "Loose Slot Demands Payout")
I understand both parties are CRAP. Like I said, the MSM supports whoever is in power (in name), because the REAL POWERS demand it and pay their bills and salaries. THIS is how they brainwash people. It's very hard to avoid. So don't watch TV. No, I haven't, in many years. I'm still wishing I had all those decades back that I did.
Sandra Fluke is an insult to women, a parady of a parady. I attemped to listen to her speach at the convention and shanged the channel 4 times, just to prevent vomiting. Why give her a national speaking platform? My employer should pay for all the krispy creme dounut I want, and if I get fat, pay for the liposuction too. It's My Body! It's My Choice! You Must Pay!
Seems mademesmile and NewWorldOrange have opinions on this...maybe either or both of you two help me out with this 'cause I still really don't understand the "debate" here.
How do you folks think insurance companies should determine which prescription drugs are covered and which are not?
ARE THE SHEEPLE DISTRACTED ENOUGH BY THE MIDDLE EAST ATTACKS TO NOT BE PAYING ATTENTION TO ALL THE ECONOMIC DOOM NEWS??
And if anyone thinks these attacks were STARTED,on 9-111, over a movie, your IQ is 43.
Pre-Planned event.............Sept 4th, the Gub was warned on it.
....meanwhile, the numerous telephone threats against colleges were traced to a residence on PA Avenue.
Ooh Egan Jones is going to be in deep doo doo the obama administration already went after them last time they gave a downgrade they are not Moody's after all
SEC Keeps Ratings Game Rigged
snip more at link
A case the commission filed last week epitomizes a lot of what's wrong with the agency, even under the supposed overhaul by its chairwoman, Mary L. Schapiro.
The agency brought a civil case against a tiny, iconoclastic ratings agency called Egan-Jones, run by the outspoken Sean Egan, accusing it of, well, essentially filling out forms wrong.
Before the S.E.C. charges, Egan-Jones was best known for two things: having made some bold calls about shaky credit prospects and having a business model that was different than that of the big boys — Moody's Investors Service, Standard & Poor's and Fitch. Mr. Egan's outfit gets paid by the users of his ratings; the oligopoly gets paid by the issuers whose debt is going to be rated.
You don't need to be a hedge fund quant to see the conflict of interest: the more ratings, the more profits to the ratings agencies, so the temptation is to be extra lenient. And, boy, were they.
The funniest thing in all of this is the default probability rate... 1.2%?? In what world??? The unicorns one I presume.
The same world of aliens that Krugman predicted will cause a world resolute in increasing GDP to defend against broken windows inevitably caused by the aliens.
"Hence, in our opinion QE3 will be detrimental to credit quality for the US."
Ya don't say!!!
Egan Jones is clearly a domestic terrorist operation.
I bet the Silver Bears video set them off.
Is there a new one?
Paging the bond vigilantes, where the fuck are you guys?
Busy squeeling like pigs listening to ben play the banjo
OINK!
The bond vigilantes left years ago...
LOL - Silly LoPhys, bond vigilantes are the "smart money", they don't own US sovereign debt.
At some point, "don't fight the fed" will become "get the fuck out of dodge".
I got that silver coin
Long bond off 3 points....some vigilanties out there. It will be interesting to see what next week brings.
China is weighing it's options on it's USD holdings.
Ironic that someday we'll be grateful to the bastards for the day they came in to wreck the day and saved it, isn't it?
My hero.
We might get a red close today. That would be weird and stuff.
How can we close red when they have a printing press and a face-cord stacked at every trading console ?
We will never close RED again !
QE4ever !!
\EJ/
Downgrade?
Daddy will be so unhappy?
Daddy will punish them
Daddy's already been doing that
Egan-Jones Sues to Have SEC Allegations Tried in Federal Court
Sean is gonna keep fucking around with these ratings and accidentally shoot himself in the back of the head 3 or 4 times.
OMG good one some of you really crack me up that's why I use ROFLMAO
Heart attack! He didn't believe in Obamacare, and looked what happened, BAM, heart attack.
Inflation everywhere--including grade inflation.
Egan who?
Egan Lou Who. Thats Who
Sweet! ( A SMALL NOT SO - OBSCURE- RATINGS AGENCY) Sets' precedent!
Who cares ... market (SP) +5
Don't spoil the coke & underage hookers party in the Hamptons
I didn't know Egan Jones was in that business. But independent hooker rating service might gain some traction
Surely the SEC can find more paperwork to file charges against them, right?
Where is Egan Jones located? The Navy needs to send some ships there.
the Us Navy or Russian....better not ask a democrat....
The us has infinity money, greenspit said so. Too bad the unfed has the gold.
He nails it in one paragraph....
Marc Faber did it in one line...
I do it in one word: "hahahahahaha." what else can I do? "we're all stand up comedians now." oh, look! an idiot paying his bills! did you hear the one about the bank robber? When the teller pulled out the gun and handed him the note "your money or your life" he said "I have to think about that now."
Egan is a leading indicator. It wont be a decade before the rest catch up.
....wonder if moody's and/or s&p will "keep up with the Jones's"
On a long enough timeline the credit of the U.S. goes to F
Timmy G: "No risk of credit rating downgrade."
How about the risk after a couple of downgrades Timmy?
Timmy G gonna get ya.
music to bernake, wants US dollar down fast
bitch slap from the regulators in 5,4,3,2,1.....
Although US debt should be considered junk, I will say downgrading them because the Fed prints is not logical. The Fed is a private for profit bank that has no government ties to the US.
Now downgrading the Fed, that would be something!
Why not taking the direttissima from AA -> DDD?
Why not? Because we're not batteries or tits.
Now eliminating the Fed, that would be something!
fixed it for ya
Arrest Bernanke for financial terrorism.
Time for SP, Moody and Fitch to man up and do it too.
Yeah right. The U.S wll go down like AIG.....AAA rated.
THis ~I am completly nuts~ strategy is to force GOOG AAPL MSFT ORCL to spend the 1.6% of GDP they hoard in cash and waste it, Corporate Keynesianism.
Wow, they got a pair, don't they. Where is this honesty coming from. Not used to it.
egan jones better not be planning to stay in a manhattan hotel this week. if so, he better be out of the room when the chambermaid comes in.
Speaking of that it's quite the coincidence that the Middle east erupting is happening the same time the US dollar is being killed off.
....angry citizens make better soldiers when drafted and told AQ killed their 401Ks.
Hence, in our opinion QE3 will be detrimental to credit quality for the US.
They should be more accurate and call a spade a spade. BenBanker did not announce QE3 this Thursday, what he announced was QE
&infin. That is, he did not announce another round of QE but infinite rounds of QEs.Look at it this way.....................
Gold is up $30 on that news !
$30 Bucks
Love this AP story off twitter just now.
Rising gas prices crimp US consumer spending. Fed move could push prices higher.
Really? For reals? You don't say?
They should have downgraded the U.S to junk. By the time a ten year matures, sure you will have gotten your money back, but it will only be good for wiping your ass. And it really won't even be good for that.
Good post Englai. Wood chippers, will be in "vogue"? Or we can use our "left index finger"?
Should've been downgraded to BAAAAH.
Sean Egan has balls that clank! I just hope he doesn't suddenly develop heart trouble or become suicidal.
don't know if they mentioned this but what Ben did now takes the heat off congress to do a thing. probably made that whole situation worse
Everybody hold fucking hands!
The Duchess of Cambridge has perkytits, a lovely ass, and Mitt Romney will save us.
Meanwhile, has anyone noticed that Robert Mugabe is wallpapering his Master Bathroom Suite in U.S. fiat?
EJ, the Rodney Dangerfield of the comedy troupe known as Ratings Agencies
can't get no respect meets it's funny because it's true
So, Egan, Europe should not go federal in your opinion?
Because currency debasement has to be backed by at least a couple hondred million people? To do the job right?
Bernacke has done nothing less than transfer wealth from the 99% to the top 5% & ensure his stakeholders, the largest US Banks, get paid...WHY THE HELL DOES GOLDMAN SACH & MORGAN STANLEY STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE FED DISCOUNT WINDOW??!!! THEY ARE NOT BANKS - THEY WERE GRANTED THAT STATUS BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM COLLAPSED! It is OBSCENE - Neither 'bank' has a retail banking footprint or conducts ANY true retail banking operations - 98% of Americans could not avail of these 'banks' services due to the fact that 98% do not meet the capital requirement, however, the US TAXPAYER is FULLY LIABLE for their antics - It is absolutely unacceptable & I hope Bernacke enjoys his moment because history will show him to be totally incompetent -
You had me 'til "incompetent".
How do you transfer wealth from the "99%" to the top "5%"?
Hey S&P remember when we only had $14 Trillion in debt and you downgraded us?
The good times right.
egan feels that the country will see its borrowing costs rise because the economy will recover...............NOT..............there will be no recovery until the debt overhang disappears, affordable energy is discovered, and the population dwindles...........................the country will see its borrowing costs rise because the world will lose faith in the u.s...........even egan jones doesnt get it........................
Kito,
In short hand your post is written in one word.................
NEVER !
honestann downgrades USSA to ZZZ---
...with negative guidance!
who listens to eagan jones..??
The folks walking out of Lehman Brothers four years to the day.
Only in respospect does Egan get credit.
Marc Faber: Give every household $10 million.
Now this is my kind of QE. Let the good times roll.
I'll toss ya a greeny if you can name 5 ratings agencies? I'll toss ya another greeny, if you can name the ratings agency that sent "European bond yields up" last November?
Moody's Fitch E-J S&P First Afghan Credit Risk Ratings (had to look that one up, bet they're busy these days). I'm going to guess Fitch hit the Limeys with the downgrade last week?
Well Done! I just wish the answer came that "Toad" above you! Limey downgrades, are like "BoJ" downgrades.
dirty money " carry trade" havens.
but Cramer said that the fed is a hero !! whos right?
Ultimately the grading doesn't matter (if the world's money still sees the US as one of the safest bets). What matters is the internest rate required to sell more paper. In the face of open ended put promises, I wonder if even the Steely Dan Dow (that's all it is now, just a self gratification toy) will care much about a downgrade; Moody's, S&P, Bob's Gold and Coin, whoever.
Egan should be audited! and downgraded!
EEUU is and will always be AAA... !
You missed an A.
Love your pal,
Warren
EGAN should be "applauded" for having the guts enough to state reality, you fucktard!
...report faxed from an undisclosed underground bunker...
Meanwhile the BRICS continue to undermine the FED'S insanity by moving further away from the dollar. If the currency crisis wasn't already bad enough, now the fresh flood of dollars will pretty much ensure the death of the dollar. This is war without typical means of warfare, there will be no bloodshed from the enemy, only from within when total chaos is unleashed...
ROFLMAO!
Hey Ben!? Ben Bernanke!?
Yes you! Did you get the memo!?
Shuusshhh Damn it!!!
Now I have to count again how many zeroes to add!!!
Oh gah look at the Drudge headline right below the main headline:
Flash Us Credit Downgraded...
Below it with Bernake pic almost can see the pain on his face:
PUMPING BLAMED.....
Nailed it Drudge heh.
I am amazed that Egan Jones' move was actually reported by CNBC : http://www.cnbc.com/id/49037337
Egan-Jones
We'll cut you. (C)
Market would not care even if they downgraded the US to -ZZZ.
Ben the Beard has everything under control!
Problem is people overseas are scared sh*tless of losing 100% of their money so they build treasuries hoping they lose less.
That's the only explanation i have for treasuries being in such demand.
President Zero's destruction of the American empire in 1 term is right on track.
It is documented by historians that when the Gods asked Caracalla why the Roman Empire commenced its decline during his reign he replied : "why don't you ask Caesar that when he crossed the Rubicon, or Nero when he burnt Rome!"
Roman Decadence, Rome and Romania, and the Emperors Who Weren't
Crisis of the Third Century - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the last 72 hours of Obama's presidency, we've had our embassies overrun, our embassy people murdered, government on another wild printing spree, another downgrade for the nation's credit rating, the Middle East is burning, and Obama is tweeting us about meeting Jay Z and Beyonce.
... and English Princess's tits exposed by the filthy French.
don't understand your logic; if the tits were filthy then the french compounded the "filth"; but if the tits were beautiful, the french press compounded their beauty by dissemination of their imagery.
Beauty like filth is in the eye of the beholder; apparently the french press finds them "boootifoool" but Royal morals "heeeepocritical".
And don't forget, he's leading in the polls. Stupid, stupid, stupid. If people vote for him, I'm for a scarlet letter of some sort, so the idiots can be moved to the coasts.
Do you think if Romney is elected things will turn around? Or do you think they will just crumble more slowly?
I forgot to add multiple bomb threats around the country today. So many important things to ignore for a good time to be had at a fundraiser!
Ooops! Also forgot to add that news broke about how King Putt has skipped over half his intelligence briefings. What will happen in the NEXT 72 hours of this horrific presidency?