This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

EUR Plunges In Thin Market, Below 1.3000

Tyler Durden's picture


While it is unclear what just spooked the EURUSD, sending it lower by 70 pips in minutes, perhaps a better question is why the EURUSD is not thousands of pips lower to begin with. As a reminder every single large bank is pushing for a lower EURUSD on hopes that a EUR collapse will kill the market and send the ECB scurrying into printing money. The problem there is that the ECB just announced its balance sheet expanded to EUR 2.73 trillion, an expected increase of over EUR 200 billion in one week (since the LTRO), and a whopping EUR 800 billion in 6 months (that's $1.1 trillion... in six months)! As such, good luck selling to the Germans on the ECB board that EUR 1.6 trillion annualized is insufficient. Lastly, and as a reminder, here is the only correlation that matters in 2012.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:41 | 2015834 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Is there a rumor that Italy is cancelling auction?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:44 | 2015845 Orly
Orly's picture

Or it would otherwise fail...

That's the one.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:06 | 2015909 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Will these PM prices last until Jan 3rd? Please oh please!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 13:27 | 2016543 VegasRage
VegasRage's picture

Hope so but I haven't waited, I've been buying ASE's each day it goes down.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 14:25 | 2016731 navy62802
navy62802's picture

I'm hoping they collapse below $1000. I'll pick up another pound at those prices.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:16 | 2015941 FinHits
FinHits's picture

Hmm.. two plus two thoughts to this posting:


1) ECB balance sheet is expanding on the liability side, but also assets are increasing. The net exposure to Eurozone government debt of ECB has not necessarily increased much directly.

ZeroHedge just went to great lenghts explaining that practically all of the balance sheet liability increase has gone to the asset side:

1.1) LTRO is invested mostly to ECB deposits,

Or as you say: "ECB has just confirmed that what goes out of one pocket comes back in the other, as the ECB's deposit facility has just exploded to not a 2011 record, but an all time record high €412 billion, a €65 billion increase overnight, and €167 billion higher in the past two days alone, which effectively accounts for practically all of the LTRO's free €210 billion."

1.2) The ECB secondary market purchase program of some €210 billion is sterilised by 7 day ECB deposit facility. Supposedly this also expands the ECB balance sheet by the same amount on both sides without "printing" impact.

2) Secondarily the post says that collapsing Euro would push ECB to money printing, QE. However, wouldn't QE be just a further Euro weakness trigger. QE=Inflantion=weak currency. Of course there could be a small positive confidence boost from QE, but that is psychology.

Secondarily, why would market participants first want to weaken Euro in order to then push ECB to strengthen it. Sounds unnecessarily complex to me.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:32 | 2016031 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

It is complex-more commonly known as a clusterfuck.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:45 | 2016091 FinHits
FinHits's picture

Sorry to be on a moaning mode, but for once it would be great to read about the USD-EUR currency pair viewed from the reversed angle:

For example, I would be positively surprised to find a ZeroHedge post titled "USD strengthens as x,y, and z drive the market up". ;-)

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:41 | 2015836 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

EFSF is downgraded by Peterssen to JUNK

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:44 | 2015848 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture




Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:41 | 2015837 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Crap!  I thought the EUR was saved because the Italian bond auction went fabulously!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:44 | 2015846 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Italian Bonds,Banks and Insurance co. are all in default

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:50 | 2016115 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

Your a** is in default!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:43 | 2015844 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

If the Euro can't be held up in a thin market wait until everyone wakes up from the holiday stupor.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:44 | 2015847 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Good luck my ass. They need Andy Luck passing golden footballs their way.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:44 | 2015850 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

FSLR down 75% on the year.

It is at times like this that i really miss LEO.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:32 | 2015853 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Have no fear, for the PPT is here!  The PPT has set the floor for today at 1254. 

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:46 | 2015854 Paul Kemp
Paul Kemp's picture

Fascinating stuff - again we learn that Gold is Money. Gold is going down in USD and up in EUR while Silver is going down in both...

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:53 | 2015872 machineh
machineh's picture

Silver's weakness yesterday, when the USD index was mildly down (normally favorable for silver), was a divergent tell.


ZSL, biTcheZ!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:59 | 2015888 spartan117
spartan117's picture

ZSL, really?  As silver has gone from 49 to 28, your ZSL has gone from 50 to... 15?  Those leveraged ETFs will KILL you if you are a buy and hold sucker. 

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:43 | 2016080 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture


Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:54 | 2016129 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

Argento Fisico! Hold, buy more, and tighten your ass for the next months

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:05 | 2015906 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Don't be a ZSL bag.  Gawd those people are bitter.  Reverse ETFs are built to go down no matter what.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:12 | 2015942 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

wow i just ran that chart on zsl vs slv. Thats crazy shit.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:55 | 2015876 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

paper PM are going (who cares) as they and their markets are repudiated as meaningless.

looking at the EURUSD on a longer time scale reveals this move to be minor in character.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:46 | 2015856 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Think EUR is plunging?  Take a look at GBP/USD; down 154 pips in a flash.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:46 | 2015857 chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

Was it the ECB had gone home for the holiday too early or the Fed did not have enough people show up at work?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:46 | 2015858 GerritB
GerritB's picture

Best time to have a plunch is when almost no one is watching!! Well i am short :)

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:47 | 2015860 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Watch that euro/yen parity.    Noda's going to have to whack the yen i would think.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:48 | 2015861 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

UK to close its borders if Euro collapses:


Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:55 | 2015874 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

" a good neighbor, UK is there..."

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:08 | 2015918 sudzee
sudzee's picture

If the UK will no longer accept euro deposits then who will. Vote of no confidence for sure.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:33 | 2016035 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Great article Zeropoint.... thanks.

This article spells out the snowballing fears and reactions to the growing Euro debacle. A short must read!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:49 | 2015863 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Robo? 'Crisis Over' call still in effect?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:58 | 2015880 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

I'm sure his reply would have something to do with the price of gold and silver

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:49 | 2015864 Fips_OnTheSpot
Fips_OnTheSpot's picture

Look, a cliff. Anything in paper plunging. Nice one.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:50 | 2015865 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Repo's, paper dumping. Thats got to be it.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:51 | 2015867 MoreNails
MoreNails's picture

ECB announced that lending to banks rose 214B last week, and that its balance sheet rose to a record. Really surprising news indeed, as absolutely nothing would have suggested those figures. Either the guys selling EUR/USD on these "news" forgot that there was a thing called LTRO last week, or maybe it's just play-any-headline-that-might-bring-the-euro-lower-when-everybody's-short action. Year end performance et al.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:51 | 2015868 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The tighter they squeeze their grip the more things slip thru their fingers.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:52 | 2015871 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

France downgrade imminent? Where the fuck are the S&P on this impending French downgrade?...prior to the last summit they basically called this out if there were no positive summit results! I say cut the bad odored, arrogant fucking cunts down and then watch Sarkozy the midget cry like a baby!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:50 | 2016114 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

"I say cut the bad odored, arrogant fucking cunts down and then watch Sarkozy the midget cry like a baby!"

especially after trying to deflect criticism on to the UK with their whiny crybaby "But why? Why us? Ze UK ees een much worst shape"

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:54 | 2015873 Bob Bercy
Bob Bercy's picture

Can anyone explain why the Italian 2year auction was 2.25x oversubscribed but only raised 1.73 bn vs the 2.5bn announced size? Could it be that the Italian Treasury wanted to keep some 'pent up demand' (Ho Ho!) for tomorrow's 3 and 7  yr auctions? In any case the market doesn't seem fooled (for once) and Italian 10yr future now back below the open.


Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:08 | 2015919 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Amount allotted is the real tell, none of that oversubscribed x times.

Point is, dealers submitted xx EURmm at Y yield. Y yield for certain dealers was over the high yield allowed, and so, not allotted. Im oversimplifying as other dynamics come into play, but this is the main point.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:56 | 2015877 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

The euro/gold is going down but nobody knows why? That's funny. Maybe we should wonder why the paper currencies, be it the euro/gold, the US$, the yen ... are still relevant since they are based on nothing.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:21 | 2015980 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

this is simply not true.

All things are worth something due to belief.

Fiat is worth something because we believe it is worth something.
Technically, it is "worth" the full faith and credit of the issuer... in our case this means Fiat is backed by the taxing power of the sovereign nation, with taxes being levied on wealth/production of its citizens.  thus, Fiat is backed by the wealth/production of its citizens.  (current or future or hybrid).

Now obviously, Fiat is worth less now than yesterday, and will be worth less again in the future.  It may even collapse into nothing.  All Fiat currencies eventually collapse, and are replaced EITHER by a PM OR by another Fiat. 

Gold itself is also only worth something due to belief.  For thousands of years, people have believed that it is valuable, and thus it is valuable.  there is no other reason why it would be valuable, because it has no other major purpose except that we believe in its value. 

At times, currencies have been tied to gold or other PMs.  However, just as all Fiat eventually becomes worthless, an equal corralary is that all Gold based currencies eventually collapse to Fiat.  (Don't believe me? then name a currency that exists that is Gold backed today).

It's a circle of life.  "Money" goes from PMs to Fiat to different Fiat to PMs back to Fiat again. 

The big question right now: WHEN will current Fiat collapse... and when they do collapse will the new monetary system be PM based, or a new form of Fiat?  (in other words, will we go to a gold/silver based Fiat, or perhaps an SDR type of situation?).

Most here believe it will be Gold/Silver Based, and I think there is a great argument for that idea.  However, we must remember that it is possible to convert to another Fiat system as well.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:48 | 2017137 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Fiat is worth something because we believe it is worth something.
Technically, it is "worth" the full faith and credit of the issuer... in our case this means Fiat is backed by the taxing power of the sovereign nation, with taxes being levied on wealth/production of its citizens.  thus, Fiat is backed by the wealth/production of its citizens.  (current or future or hybrid).

Wrong. Fiats are worth something because the contries that issue them have laws on the books stating you must pay debts and taxes with the little slips of paper. Fiat is a latin word wich literally means an arbitrary order or decree. It is the LAW that we must use the Federal Reserve Note to pay taxes - it is LEGAL TENDER. It is backed by the "Full Faith and Credit of the United States", which is to say, dreams, smoke, and mirrors. 

At times, currencies have been tied to gold or other PMs.  However, just as all Fiat eventually becomes worthless, an equal corralary is that all Gold based currencies eventually collapse to Fiat.  (Don't believe me? then name a currency that exists that is Gold backed today).

The reason not a single currency exists that is backed by gold today is the limiting factor being tied to the gold supply. Also, when you hold gold as the reserve currency of the world, it tends to stabilize gold and silver at real, accurate valuations, not these ridiculous things we call prices now.  In fact until 1971, gold and silver maintained relatively stable market prices.

Gold was a common form of money for 6000 years due to its rarity, durability, divisibility, fungibility, and ease of identification, often in conjunction with silver. Silver was typically the main circulating medium, with gold as the metal of monetary reserve.

You could only truly issue an equivalent amount of currency as you held in gold, as valued by the market. In a very simplistic examle - Let us say the US has $1 Billion dollars in gold valued at market prices stored in Fort Knox. That means that of the US was STILL on the gold standard, it could not issue more than $1 Billion dollars in currency PERIOD. When Europe, at the begining of WWI discovered that they did not have enough gold to pay for the war and meet their general financial obligations, many countries, including England and Germany removed their currency from a gold standard and were able to finance their war with unlimited money they could print, which was STILL LEGAL TENDER - fiat.

See, you are confusing currnecy and legal tender. Currency is whatever is accepted as a basis or medium for exchange. Legal Tender is whatever the laws of the land deem will be used for payment of debts and taxes. Currency between aboriginal tribes and early cultures ranged from shells to cattle. You exchange your labor for legal tender. Your labor is a form of currency, and until just after the Civil War, was a recognized form of payment. You could literally "work off your debts".

Legal Tender in the modern world is whatever your Government tells you it is. Go ahead and try to pay your Federal Taxes with wheat or cattle handed off directly to the IRS.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 13:16 | 2016489 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Exactly. You cannot put a fiat price on gold.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:58 | 2015884 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

And don't tell me that gold and the euro are not the same. They have been trading together, almost to the minute, for years. They are so tight and moving so closely together that they look like North Korean soldiers in a parade.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:02 | 2015892 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

DXY's got a boner all right.  Still just a point though.  Odd.


Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:02 | 2015893 agent default
agent default's picture

Behold the bonfire of the fiats has just begun.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:20 | 2015972 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Why do you say that? The US$ is getting stronger by the minute while the euro/gold currency is crashing.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:27 | 2017087 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Fleeing from a collapsing fiat to another on the verge will lend temporary strength to the one on the verge. In this case the USD is gaining an artificial boost from investors and funds fleeing EUR investments and heading into USD investments. Meanwhile, gold and silver share sell offs continue in a desperate bid for liquidity as the systems begin their implosions. Destabilization of the EUR leads to bank runs, panic, and market crashes in the EU, the contagion, which has already spread to the US markets will gain impetuous and in little to know time, there will be market shutdowns and and holidays here in the US.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:02 | 2015894 valley chick
valley chick's picture

good grief...US threatening Iran about keeping the waters open...on fox biased news.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:04 | 2015899 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

that's gonna be a fun one.

EU is preparing further sanctions against iran. other opecs say they will fill the gap in oil production.

but how the fuck do they want it get shipped out when iranians playing games in horuz??

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:20 | 2017067 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

1/3 of ALL oil produced in the world goes through the Straights. If the straights are tied closed in an all out blockade, until that blockade is broken, the world will have to make due with just 2/3 of the world production. Oil and refined petroleum product prices will go through the roof as demand outstrips supply. Iran can and will make good on their threats.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:18 | 2017059 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

It is not just on Fox (biased) News. This was an OFFICIAL statement made by the US Department of the Navy, with responses back from Iranian PTB. Interesting. Got preps? Pray for the best, prepare for the worst.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:03 | 2015895 kito
kito's picture

Deflationary forces crushing au and ag. And ben just sitting there laughing.........

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:04 | 2015900 agent default
agent default's picture

Yes! Deflation means that ink will be cheaper.  He is stacking them barrels.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:08 | 2015917 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

Sorry, but I don't think it is just those forces that is crushing paper gold and silver.  Nobody wants paper.  Please go take a look at the COT report for gold and silver.  While OI is usually pretty light anyway during this time of year, check it out now.  OI is almost none existant.  People are ceasing to trade on the COMEX. 

Ben is prolly laughing his a$$ off, but he is fixing to get his butt handed to him I think.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:22 | 2015981 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

The problem is that all the people I talk to want to buy my gold for the price set by the comex and not the price I tell them real gold is worth. I am trying to get rid of my gold/euro (that's the same no) but no one wants it because they say it's going to zero.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:29 | 2016014 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I think that is the point bastiat. You just nailed it. Try to buy gold (physical) and you will pay up for it big time. Try to sell it and they will gladly only offer you spot prices determined by comex. That seems to be the fly in the physical owning ointment.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:41 | 2016076 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

I think this is just a transitional period and that eventually the price of gold will be discovered by another means.  It isn't really a fly in the ointment unless you want to cash out your position and I would only recommend that in emergency situations because the dollar is being devalued.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:48 | 2016102 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Completely agree but think about what you are saying...discovered by another means. Those means would be a loss of faith in fiat. While a lot of people on here probably have lost faith already this is such a tiny infantile fraction of the population. That "transitional period" may take an extroadinarily long time if it happens. As people become poorer and get squeezed that may be forced to sell, and they will get screwed.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:55 | 2016138 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

Well PAPER gold is still up 13% this year, so that's not a bad investment if you do have to sell out.  It has been up 15-25% every year for the last 10 years.  I don't think that is bad.  Yes people will get screwed because the metal is worth more than what they will get, but they will still get more than what they paid for it!  :)

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:00 | 2016157 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Thats my point exactly. Paper gold...until the point in time you mentioned a more liquid and profitable place to be invested. I was saying people who owned physical get screwed. Maybe they still make money. But they lose on the margins to the coin shop owners.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:19 | 2016220 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

The price you get when you sale your physical gold is set by the PAPER price.  Therefore when you go and trade your physical you receive the paper price.  That paper price has consistently been up 15-25% for the last 10 years.  When you trade paper you run the risk of someone stealing your money, just like they did with MF Global.  

I just called my coin dealer and he said he is paying $25 over the spot price for Gold Eagles, so you don't lose on the margins in a dramatic way. 

I want to stress again, those that trade paper gold and silver are the ones that run the highest risk of getting screwed, not the ones holding physical bullion.


This is just my opinion, but it is one based off of facts from looking over the yearly charts of Gold and from studying what I can of the MF Global situation.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:12 | 2017043 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Paper gold or silver shares are worth exactly what they are printed on, perhaps less. One glitch in the system, one little mistake, one more MF Global, and your paper gold share is basically toilet paper. You do NOT own gold if you own a paper share. You own paper. Stand for delivery and TAKE ownership of physical gold. Then you own something of value. The fundamentals of 6000 years of history do not change because the Bearded Chair Satan Bernake calls gold and "artifact". The hubris some people hold, especially in these volatile markets, is amazing.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:14 | 2015951 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Ben does not laugh he snickers

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:43 | 2016353 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



You and RoboTrader share the same basement?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:49 | 2016368 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

What you are seeing is too much money trying to trade a small market in PMs.  We don't have deflation.  You should really check the silver COT report to get an idea of what is going on there.  Just because you create trillons of dollars and hand it over to bank traders does not mean they will make the right choices.  I would not chase PM prices lower.  That is a bear trap.


Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:05 | 2015905 youngman
youngman's picture

I am confused why gold and silver are going down....makes no sense to me there are three things to invest in....paper which consists of stocks and curriencies, then bonds, then gold and silver.....of those seems to be a better deal in a crazy market where countries and central banks are printing more paper...and bonds which pay nothing ???  What am I missing here...its not making sense that gold and silver are going down in this enviroment...

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:09 | 2015920 AngryGerman
AngryGerman's picture

deleveraging and preparing for redemptions.

this year has been crap for most funds, and once the sheeples see the figures after coming back from holidays, it will be a mess.

everything that you can sele is being sold, and placed in short terms. that's why italy went so well. but real funding hole is in usd, that's why you see EURUSD fall

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:11 | 2015932 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

They are going down because the paper market (COMEX) where the price is set, has extremely low volumes and is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the price setting.  People are turning away from the paper markets and going straight to owning the physical assets and placing them in their own vaults/safes/hiding places.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:12 | 2015940 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture



"Gold price" and "silver price" are just paper prices.  This has nothing to do with the number of ounces one holds.  PMs are not a trade.


Buy the fucking dips, bitchez.



Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:52 | 2016378 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



I am confused why gold and silver are going down ...

Eurobanks selling assets having any market value, trying to raise dollars.

It's why USD is rising and Euro, gold, silver, etc are falling.

Some huge negative news in the EU this morning (afternoon over there), not sure what it is yet.

Could be a large Eurobank collapse, France getting downgraded, something else, but it's big whatever it is.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:08 | 2015915 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Spiking the dollar does help keep a lid on oil and gasoline prices in the USA.  With Brent at $110 and WTI at $100, and with wholesale gasoline suddenly getting some traction from $2.50 to $2.67 per gallon, the last thing TPTB need is an oil price/gasoline price freakout shattering consumer sentiment in the dead of winter (the lowest price time of year).

Pesky Iranians are advancing the conflict narrative ahead of schedule?

Wholesale gasoline at $3/gallon is a big red flag as far as I am concerned.  Gets a lot of sheeple upset/awake.

Of course gold also gets pounded.  Got your Xmas cash ready???

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:08 | 2015916 XtraBullish
XtraBullish's picture

Precious metals are now in full Crash Mode - $1425 Au coming $22.00 Ag. The "bugs" are now squashed...

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:13 | 2015949 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture






Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:14 | 2015954 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

There may be some paper longs that are squished, but that's what they get for playing with paper.  As for people who stack physical, it is an excellent time to purchase.  It is no different than those folks across the pond buying hard assets such as land, etc...  People are realizing the paper price set by the COMEX is not really valid anymore.  Go look at the COT report and look at the OI figures.  You can see it for yourself.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:17 | 2015958 sudzee
sudzee's picture

No-one wants PAPER PMs after MF Global. Have put aside a few pennies to grab a bit more physical before the cupboard is bare. Day by day the world just keeps spinning round the bowl. All paper now finding its true value. My insurance is intact.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:50 | 2016117 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

wake me up if it hits 3-digits, not before, then I'll be interested in some real price "discovery".

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 19:23 | 2017502 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

 $22.00 Ag

Howmuch ya got?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:11 | 2015938 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Greybeard Ben has only a couple of tricks left and his time is running ever short. The clock is ticking. You can print on for a long time...but sooner or later.....

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:22 | 2015987 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I know there is an ongoing Twit battle between Jim Rickards and ZH but the 1.30 threshold is where Rickards said to expect more QE, monetary easing, printing type action from Fed because they need weaker dollar.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:25 | 2015996 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

PHYS getting destroyed.


2011 was an absolute disaster for the "Get Physical" boyz.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:33 | 2016040 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

Gold's up 14% I believe this year.  How about that DOW Robo? (cough 5% cough)

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:05 | 2016186 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Robo now grasps desperately at any straw to try to make his crappy equity markets look better by trying to make the case 'PM's are getting destroyed' or whatever. Gold still up a nice 15% or so on the year, while equities are barely a break-even for the year, even WITH all the massive manipulation to keep markets afloat and avert total disaster.

Robo, youre just a tool.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:28 | 2016012 Xue
Xue's picture

When you own physical gold, you are your own central bank. As long as you keep it safe, you can survive to any financial or monetary meltdown.

Most of you westerners sell paper gold, we chinese buy physical.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:39 | 2016061 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

99% of all U.S. Treasuries purchased over the last 35 years are still in a winning position.


Can't say the same for gold.  Most gold purchased in 2011 is in a losing position.

Silver was an unmitigated disaster in 2011.  Most people lost huge.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:42 | 2016079 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

This has got to be the stupidest comment I have ever read in my life.  To quote the performance of treasuries over the last 35 years, then say gold not so well and give one year performance is plain retarded.  Please kill yourself for your stupidity.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:49 | 2016111 JimmyTheHand
JimmyTheHand's picture

PAPER silver is not looking good right now, but PAPER gold is still up 13.19% YTD.  I hardly think that is a losing position.  For those that bought physical gold and silver and are holding it in there hands, they are still doing fine.  They own a solid asset that has no third party counter risk.  The pricing mechanism (COMEX) is losing its place as the price setter.  People lost huge... hahahaahahaha.  You crack me up Robo, always slamming gold and silver.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:58 | 2016149 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

Wait man, wait.. we'll talk about it again some year from now...

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:06 | 2016195 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Robo is now 'bond boy the dork'...LOL whatever hey hows yer NFLX doin? Most people losin huge there or doin pretty good? Assclown.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:40 | 2016070 Zola
Zola's picture

What a bunch of BS , the miners have been getting tanked by the banksters three times this year.January , September and December . When are these Aholes going to fucking wake up and start buybacks and dividends raises !!! I ma getting sick of this

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:44 | 2016086 dcb
dcb's picture

are you guys just bad charters, because I don't get the comment, zh talks about the algo's running the show, and then makes a stupid statement that the market action may in fact actually have to do with something, plus you can almost always sell after five days up no matter what way the market is going.

My i suggest plotting udn, or uup on a weekly basis, you will clearly see udn had lower highs, and yesterday we were at the bottom of the long up trned for uup and 22.31

so you sholuld make yourself a bit market neutral and depending if it breaks to the up or below you will make money

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:48 | 2016105 youngman
youngman's picture

The gold stock I wat is CEF..a closed end fund out of Canada....volume today is above normal...interesting as volume on the big board is way down...something is going on...window dressing...or HFT computer theft..probably the latter

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:51 | 2016122 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

How many hours before we hear from a fed head we may need to start printing again?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:53 | 2016131 AGoldhamster
AGoldhamster's picture

Hearing from a couple of market sources that the ratings agencies have informed the EU of upcoming downgrades. We know that entities about to be downgraded are informed ahead of time.


headlines from the International Monetary Fund basically saying it will not be able to deliver aid to Hungary unless its government "should engage on key policy issues if it wants talks on a programme to progress", according to Reuters.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:04 | 2016177 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Do you think they would do it in this market today?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:55 | 2016142 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

ECB's Balance Sheet Goes Into Orbit ($3.55T), Italy and Spain Show Slightly Better Sovereign Yields - Federal Reserve Fires Their Rockets

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:58 | 2016150 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

ECB's Balance Sheet Goes Into Orbit ($3.55T), Italy and Spain Show Slightly Better Sovereign Yields - Federal Reserve Fires Their Rockets

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 11:58 | 2016151 Flounder
Flounder's picture

C'mon fellow Eur traders BTFD!  You gotta look at weekly and monthly charts to find euros this cheep.  This is the opportunity of a lifetime to get in at low prices.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:09 | 2016207 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Rickards and the rest of the KWN crew made total fools of themselves.


None of them predicted this huge selloff in PM's.

It was always "Buy, Buy, Buy!!!"

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:15 | 2016238 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Does it hurt when your two brain cells fight?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:14 | 2016233 Lowest Common D...
Lowest Common Denominator's picture

Ever since our economy entered this funhouse mirrored nothing-is-what-it-appears zone I've been telling people that the problem isn't one of monetary mass, but instead is best modeled as a difficulty in monetary velocity.  We don't pay these rich fuckers to waddle around with pockets full of cash telling everyone that class envy is the devil's work, we pay them (in theory) to keep the economy moving by keeping the cash moving.  Nowadays?  Everybody's gone serfin'.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:15 | 2016237 Zola
Zola's picture

The big issue is that miners should be up 30pct this year. (or at least 15pct). That they are negative on the year WHILE THE SPX IS FLAT is MINDBOGGLING

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:15 | 2016239 GNWT
GNWT's picture

Hey Robo, 


Have you ever seen a tsunami, first the water goes waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy down and out, then it sort of doesn't.


Weren't you and your ilk, Krugman, Roubini dissing PMs after the

March 09 rally began in the stock market?


How did that short work out?



Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:27 | 2016291 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

The Downgrades cometh then.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:36 | 2016329 xcehn
xcehn's picture

MSM news being suppressed:  Panic and bank runs now playing out in Europe.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 12:51 | 2016376 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Pretty hard to audit "Bank of Sealy Posturepedic" branches....especially when people are sleeping on them.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 23:37 | 2018139 michaelsmith_9
michaelsmith_9's picture

We may see a reversal for the EURUSD in the near term.  Looking for a "risk on" reversal.  An inter-market analysis of the AUDUSD, SPX, and TNX all point to higher levels in the near term and in the weeks ahead.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!