Euro Bailout Cracks Emerge; Greece "Just Says No"

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Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:57 | 1818836 Irish66
Irish66's picture

ECB is skeptical

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:05 | 1818868 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

ECB - Europe Calling Ben


Pork Chops Rule!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:42 | 1818945 max2205
max2205's picture

Ben has dropped the shock and awe market bomb. I am in awe

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:49 | 1818954 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

"Those who monitor us do not have our interests in mind... Their priority is that we pay back our loans."

Whoa!! So what's your best interest my dear Greeks? Let me guess: You do not deserve to pay your loans.

Some nerve.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:09 | 1819046 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

They have nothing to pay for energy with, no energy, no commerce, no commerce, no revenues to be used to pay anything back. Good for them. At least now, in Greece, compensation will find it's way back to people who are actully worth a shit.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:04 | 1819224 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

 No alchemy possible here: shit = shit. The EU is not a going concern, if it was a business it would file chapter 11. But the EU system is too rigid to change short of desperation, and incredibly, they're not there yet. Some input has to change, and only a few are possible: commodity prices, productivity, and initiative. Either the cost of creating wealth has to drop, or more wealth has to be created through initiative and productivity. Any other apparent solution is just laying the problems off on someone else.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:37 | 1819784 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Germany w/o Prussia is a a nation w/o a soul: the Ostland gone, its people massacred and scattered. So I find it hard to imagine that Germany is going to throw a real wrench this late in the game. Think of it: from Bismarck to...Angela Merkel. Pitiful.  

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 10:04 | 1820634 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Greeks aren't paying.  Haven't they been abundantly clear about this?  They want what the US has.  Just print up some cash and hand it around.  Austerity is not wanted.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 00:14 | 1868911 haibop
haibop's picture

This is going to impact the world the long term and keep in our memory. for years to come!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 18:52 | 1968414 haibop
haibop's picture

this is interesting discussion. electric fireplace

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 02:12 | 2188000 haibop
haibop's picture

unfortunately the situation is really bad now. silver

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:09 | 1819047 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

LOL. Europe Calling Ben; very good. unfortunately more than a little of that is foreordained. With regard to the agreement coming "unravelled"; doesn't it have to get ravelled, before it can get unravelled? So far, it's just desperate posturing and running shit up the flag pole to see if , (anyone), salutes.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:28 | 1819283 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Typically, I'm loathe to read/play the grammar snarks, but your name invites it...punctuation, spelling, grammar, yikes!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:06 | 1818869 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

Does that mean that the "ironclad firewall" is neither "ironclad" nor walls off any fire?

No -- it just means that the iron-cladded side faces us, and we are all here with the fire.

The velvet padded side faces Davos, and it does in fact ensure that none of the inconvenient fire can get through to them.

After all, we wouldn't want to spoil such a nice luncheon with some smokey, peasant-populated reality, now would we?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:12 | 1818888 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Even better now that they have kicked cds to the curb. Get a 50% haircut and no insurance? No problem!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:21 | 1818906 Bumblebee Tuna
Bumblebee Tuna's picture

What's all this talk about 50% off haircuts?  Is this Groupon's latest deal of the day?

Shit yeah, I'm in!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:57 | 1818840 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Gee ... is it because they are the first of the 1%'er's that are being throw to the wolves.

Maybe they should stop thinking of it as their money.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:17 | 1818901 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I am in love.

You know what GAAP stands for.

Have you ever dated a troll?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:22 | 1818908 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

not to my knowledge.

Southern girls were taught better than that.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:05 | 1819229 optimator
optimator's picture

Southern girl that's a troll?  They talk so slow that by the time they say "NO!" it's too late anyway.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:16 | 1819253 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

We get our meaning over in the same amount of time we're just a whole lot politer about it.

Getting my start in the golden age of computers I spent my time in fortune 500 offices in New England and later california.

Very educational.

When I left Akransas to get rich and famous I thought I was liberal.  I found out on that relative scale I'm not.

Now I watch the circus from my mountain top in Fayetteville.

Progressive libertarians unite!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:54 | 1819357 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You sound like my kind of gal. You, ah, have a room to rent, by chance? This mountaintop in GA is getting boring.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:33 | 1819450 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

I don't know.  Depends.  How much you willing to pay.

I am an unabashed capitalist,

I've always thought that my list of what I wouldn't do for $,$$$,$$$ is shorter than what I'd do

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 03:05 | 1820006 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

An interesting thought. Or maybe an interesting way of putting a mundane thought?

Can't tell.

Now and again (well, all the time, actually), I drink too much and then post stuff online that, the next morning, I look at with some feeling of, oh, I don't know ... unease?

If you look at this in the morning, and don't feel any such sense of vague disquietude, then, well, I might just actually consider entering into a bidding war with WonderDawg for your spare bedroom.

'Course ... considering our respective avatars, you might have to value, uh, intangibles, shall we say?, as highly as AMGs for me to have a chance.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:43 | 2399419 haibop
haibop's picture

not funny how to

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:42 | 1818947 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dam prevert GAAPers. 

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 14:35 | 1894308 haibop
haibop's picture

are you serious? walk in freezer

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:01 | 1818853 qussl3
qussl3's picture

When's the next greek election, or portugese or irish one for that matter.

This isnt over, not by a longshot.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:02 | 1818857 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Do they use Deibold machines too?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:30 | 1819570 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Maybe they'll use white and black marbles.

Only, like the olden-times, the politicians get to pull them out.  If it's a white one, they get to dig graves.  The graves are for those who drew black.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:44 | 1819793 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Black beans. For them all.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 19:53 | 2389698 haibop
haibop's picture

funny... Inteligator

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:13 | 1818891 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Is that what they call a popular uprising now?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:03 | 1818858 navy62802
navy62802's picture

If ANYTHING slips up in the implementation of this "plan," look out below. All of those superfluous gains we saw today across the board will reverse x2 (at least) in short order. Many a trader will get cought in the bull trap.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:19 | 1818903 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Shut up!

You are scaring me and I havent finished gloating yet.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:12 | 1819053 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Sorry! Let's have a moment of respect so recent longs can gloat. A moment will do.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:03 | 1818859 tallen
tallen's picture

Sell the news!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:10 | 1818883 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Buying the rumor and selling the news is costing me money. The market seems to do almost the opposite of conventional thinking. Todays announcement should have been viewed as a credit event. I'm playing the tape. My trades are getting shorter and shorter in duration but in this enviornment staying in a position longer than a day can be very costly.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:23 | 1818911 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

"Bear market rallies tend to end on good news. What more good news is coming?"

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:58 | 1819370 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

This is true. I'm wondering if there might be one more little poke higher before this thing rolls over. My near term shorts are getting killed, but I didn't roll the dice with enough to hurt me if I was wrong (which I was). My longer term puts are cheaper now, but I expect they'll still be homeruns. When you swing for the fence, you're bound to strike out a few times. Just keep some dry powder. We have to be close to the roll.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:43 | 1818950 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Sell what news?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:13 | 1819059 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Exactly. The old wisdom of the market traders doesn't go out of date; it's just a matter of timing. I find it easy to remember Marc Faber's statement that this is a rally in a bear market, and there will be no new highs this year.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:38 | 1915079 haibop
haibop's picture

and make some serious money!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:04 | 1818863 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Since when do economist understand anything about reality?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:07 | 1818867 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Any bets on the Germans secretly starting the printing of Marks once again..??

Will they be the first in the EU to go back to the old currency.??

I just don't see them willing to fund the Greeks way of tax-evasion life.

Why would anyone want to do that..??

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:30 | 1818920 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Well, according to Some they have lost the keys of the Panzers so they have to drive helicopters.

And no TNT so they have to fill the shells with money.

Operation Solidarity, just your usual invasion...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:16 | 1819072 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Not betting on anything at this point, but there was an interesting article by Dan Amerman, sort of a what-if thought experiment.  No clue what is going to happen, but thought the following paragraphs provide an interesting viewpoint on why Deutschland may want to bolt sooner than later.  I think the odds lean towards the current EU accord sowing the seeds of far bigger problems on down the road.

"However, Germany didn’t actually borrow in its own currency, but rather in the currency of a monetary union. Therefore, while it is an unintended consequence, the EMU monetary crisis creates a windfall profit opportunity in that if Germany exits the EMU, it has a one time opportunity to effectively repay its external debts in drachmas and liras rather than marks. This windfall opportunity will carry its own accelerant, because the exit of Germany would shift the burden to France. France would now face the choice between carrying much of Europe’s financial burden on its back – or making its own exit from the euro, and reaping its own windfall profit, much like Germany. This exit would of course accelerate the destruction of the euro, which would increase the size of Germany’s windfall.

There is indeed a chance that if France thinks Germany is about to exit, then French national interest may require it to exit first. Being the first to exit means reaping the maximum windfall profits from the destruction of the value of a nation’s national debt.

Now this is certainly not to say that there won't be any economic chaos and turmoil in Germany, or that the resulting potential shrinkage of the German economy may not more than offset this fantastic windfall, or perhaps much more than offset it (with the same holding true of France). All else being equal, the German and French governments would strongly prefer that there were no monetary crises with their monetary union partners. The one time debt windfall from the destruction of the value of the euro may not provide anywhere close to enough value to voluntarily “cheat” bond investors.

However, if Germany feels it is forced to exit the economic and monetary union, the debt windfall effect provides a powerful incentive to do it sooner rather than later. The lower the euro falls, the greater the damage to Germany, and the less the benefits of the windfall. If things are right on the edge – the greater the chance that France will strike first, and reap the disproportionate benefits of being the first strong power to leave. Taken in combination, this means that while Germany will likely continue to do everything it can to avoid having to drop the Euro, if and when it decides an exit is inevitable – Germany will have powerful financial incentives to move with breathtaking speed in destroying the euro. As will France."

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:02 | 1819379 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Interesting. I'd say that could be the black swan but we all know you don't see the black swan coming.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:53 | 1819810 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

France + Russia "struck first" in 1914, via the Serbian catspaw. France + England "struck first" in 1939, by way of the backstab war declaration over Germany vs. Poland. It'll happen again, and once again the Germans will get the blame.

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