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Euro Bailout Cracks Emerge; Greece "Just Says No"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When reporting on the announcement of the math-free deus ex machina bail out that was announced last night, which nobody still has any grasp over, but it had a "trillion" in there somewhere so that alone sent the market scurrying, we suggested that it would take about 24-48 hours for reality to start settling in.  It may have been considerably less. As the Telegraph reports, "A trillion euro bail-out to save the EU’s single currency is in danger of unraveling after Germany’s central bank warned that the rescue measure was too dependent on the high-risk deals that caused the economic crisis." So what did the Bundesbank do to send tremors that threaten to fracture the brittle nanometer ice-plated facade under which the most tempestuous riptide in European history is contained? Well, first it appears to have used a calculator, something nobody else in the European Council seems to be capable of. Second, it realized that heaping leverage upon leverage to fix a problem, something even a five year old (non-Ivy league trained) would tell you is lunacy, may not be the best approach to fix the problems at hand. "The concerns were led by Germany’s powerful central bank, which expressed fears that a plan to leverage a €440 billion eurozone rescue fund to amass a “fire power” of €1 trillion, or £880 billion, resembled the risky finance methods that triggered the crisis in 2008. Jens Weidmann, the president of the Bundesbank and a member of the European Central Bank, sounded the alarm over the plan to “leverage” the fund by a factor of four to five times without putting any new money into the pot. He warned that the scheme could be hit by market turbulence with taxpayers left holding the bill for risky investments in Italian and Spanish bonds." Does that mean that the "ironclad firewall" is neither "ironclad" nor walls off any fire? Especially since neither the object (Germany) of the bailout nor the subject (Greece) appear to have any desire to go along with the deus ex?

As it turns out, apparently not even Merkel's promises that the EFSF would never have to be used, just the mere threat of its existence would collapse spreads everywhere, an assumption so idiotic not even Hank Paulson tried it more than three times, was able to set Weidmann's mind at ease. So what happens when, as it is bound to happen, and as we have been pounding the table on since the ill-fated July 21st bailout, realize that very soon (yes, French banks have been on downgrade review since September 14, and earlier today Sarkozy just announced French 2012 GDP growth would be a negligible 1%, something the rating agencies will be delighted to hear), following the French downgrade it will be all up to them? Another 500 pip surge EURUSD surge on short covering? We doubt it: following today's move there are no more shorts left in the Euro. Which means that the next push lower will have no natural buyers, and any Bazooka announcement will have to be much bigger, and thus far less believable.

From Telegraph:

Bill Gross, the founder of Pimco, the world’s largest bond fund, said the eurozone rescue would be a temporary fix for markets and that the fund could pose a high-risk for investors.

 

“No bazooka but should stabilize markets for now,” he messaged on the Twitter site yesterday. “Watch out if the plan is a giant SIV (structured investment vehicle) with levered risk.”

 

The plan to increase the European Financial and Stability Facility to €1  trillion on paper was attacked by economists as not enough to “stave off” worsening debt problems in Italy and Spain.

 

In a survey of economists, 26 of 48 thought the firepower was not enough. A plan for a €2 trillion fund was shelved after German and French opposition.

 

Doubts also emerged over the lack of detail on a proposal to let Greece help pay its rapidly mounting debt burden by negotiating a voluntary “haircut” that would allow it to write off about half of its debts.

But perhaps what is the worst news of the day is that Greece, the country which this whole shebang is supposed to make better, threw up violently all over the "rescue":

Greek opposition parties to the Left and Right united to condemn the eurozone deal amid mounting social conflict.

 

Antonis Samaras, the conservative opposition leader, said: “We are not closer to the solution but are faced with nine years of collapse and poverty.”

 

Dimitris Papadimoulis, a Left-wing MP, said new EU powers in the agreement to
impose austerity measures on Greece had a conflict of interest. “Those who
monitor us do not have our interests in mind,” he said. “Their priority is
that we pay back our loans.”

So... Now what? The Greek strikes will return until GDP grows? In the wacky, waving, inflatable arm flailing math word of Europe this is, unfortunately, precisely the only math that works.

 

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Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:57 | 1818836 Irish66
Irish66's picture

ECB is skeptical

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:05 | 1818868 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

ECB - Europe Calling Ben

 

Pork Chops Rule!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:42 | 1818945 max2205
max2205's picture

Ben has dropped the shock and awe market bomb. I am in awe

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:49 | 1818954 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

"Those who monitor us do not have our interests in mind... Their priority is that we pay back our loans."

Whoa!! So what's your best interest my dear Greeks? Let me guess: You do not deserve to pay your loans.

Some nerve.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:09 | 1819046 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

They have nothing to pay for energy with, no energy, no commerce, no commerce, no revenues to be used to pay anything back. Good for them. At least now, in Greece, compensation will find it's way back to people who are actully worth a shit.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:04 | 1819224 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

 No alchemy possible here: shit = shit. The EU is not a going concern, if it was a business it would file chapter 11. But the EU system is too rigid to change short of desperation, and incredibly, they're not there yet. Some input has to change, and only a few are possible: commodity prices, productivity, and initiative. Either the cost of creating wealth has to drop, or more wealth has to be created through initiative and productivity. Any other apparent solution is just laying the problems off on someone else.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:37 | 1819784 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Germany w/o Prussia is a a nation w/o a soul: the Ostland gone, its people massacred and scattered. So I find it hard to imagine that Germany is going to throw a real wrench this late in the game. Think of it: from Bismarck to...Angela Merkel. Pitiful.  

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 10:04 | 1820634 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Greeks aren't paying.  Haven't they been abundantly clear about this?  They want what the US has.  Just print up some cash and hand it around.  Austerity is not wanted.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 00:14 | 1868911 haibop
haibop's picture

This is going to impact the world the long term and keep in our memory. for years to come!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 18:52 | 1968414 haibop
haibop's picture

this is interesting discussion. electric fireplace

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 02:12 | 2188000 haibop
haibop's picture

unfortunately the situation is really bad now. silver

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:09 | 1819047 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

LOL. Europe Calling Ben; very good. unfortunately more than a little of that is foreordained. With regard to the agreement coming "unravelled"; doesn't it have to get ravelled, before it can get unravelled? So far, it's just desperate posturing and running shit up the flag pole to see if , (anyone), salutes.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:28 | 1819283 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Typically, I'm loathe to read/play the grammar snarks, but your name invites it...punctuation, spelling, grammar, yikes!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:06 | 1818869 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

Does that mean that the "ironclad firewall" is neither "ironclad" nor walls off any fire?

No -- it just means that the iron-cladded side faces us, and we are all here with the fire.

The velvet padded side faces Davos, and it does in fact ensure that none of the inconvenient fire can get through to them.

After all, we wouldn't want to spoil such a nice luncheon with some smokey, peasant-populated reality, now would we?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:12 | 1818888 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Even better now that they have kicked cds to the curb. Get a 50% haircut and no insurance? No problem!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:21 | 1818906 Bumblebee Tuna
Bumblebee Tuna's picture

What's all this talk about 50% off haircuts?  Is this Groupon's latest deal of the day?

Shit yeah, I'm in!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 17:57 | 1818840 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Gee ... is it because they are the first of the 1%'er's that are being throw to the wolves.

Maybe they should stop thinking of it as their money.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:17 | 1818901 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I am in love.

You know what GAAP stands for.

Have you ever dated a troll?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:22 | 1818908 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

not to my knowledge.

Southern girls were taught better than that.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:05 | 1819229 optimator
optimator's picture

Southern girl that's a troll?  They talk so slow that by the time they say "NO!" it's too late anyway.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:16 | 1819253 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

We get our meaning over in the same amount of time we're just a whole lot politer about it.

Getting my start in the golden age of computers I spent my time in fortune 500 offices in New England and later california.

Very educational.

When I left Akransas to get rich and famous I thought I was liberal.  I found out on that relative scale I'm not.

Now I watch the circus from my mountain top in Fayetteville.

Progressive libertarians unite!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:54 | 1819357 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You sound like my kind of gal. You, ah, have a room to rent, by chance? This mountaintop in GA is getting boring.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:33 | 1819450 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

I don't know.  Depends.  How much you willing to pay.

I am an unabashed capitalist,

I've always thought that my list of what I wouldn't do for $,$$$,$$$ is shorter than what I'd do

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 03:05 | 1820006 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

An interesting thought. Or maybe an interesting way of putting a mundane thought?

Can't tell.

Now and again (well, all the time, actually), I drink too much and then post stuff online that, the next morning, I look at with some feeling of, oh, I don't know ... unease?

If you look at this in the morning, and don't feel any such sense of vague disquietude, then, well, I might just actually consider entering into a bidding war with WonderDawg for your spare bedroom.

'Course ... considering our respective avatars, you might have to value, uh, intangibles, shall we say?, as highly as AMGs for me to have a chance.

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 12:43 | 2399419 haibop
haibop's picture

not funny how to

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:42 | 1818947 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dam prevert GAAPers. 

Sat, 11/19/2011 - 14:35 | 1894308 haibop
haibop's picture

are you serious? walk in freezer

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:01 | 1818853 qussl3
qussl3's picture

When's the next greek election, or portugese or irish one for that matter.

This isnt over, not by a longshot.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:02 | 1818857 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Do they use Deibold machines too?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:30 | 1819570 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Maybe they'll use white and black marbles.

Only, like the olden-times, the politicians get to pull them out.  If it's a white one, they get to dig graves.  The graves are for those who drew black.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:44 | 1819793 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Black beans. For them all.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 19:53 | 2389698 haibop
haibop's picture

funny... Inteligator

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:13 | 1818891 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Is that what they call a popular uprising now?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:03 | 1818858 navy62802
navy62802's picture

If ANYTHING slips up in the implementation of this "plan," look out below. All of those superfluous gains we saw today across the board will reverse x2 (at least) in short order. Many a trader will get cought in the bull trap.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:19 | 1818903 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Shut up!

You are scaring me and I havent finished gloating yet.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:12 | 1819053 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Sorry! Let's have a moment of respect so recent longs can gloat. A moment will do.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:03 | 1818859 tallen
tallen's picture

Sell the news!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:10 | 1818883 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Buying the rumor and selling the news is costing me money. The market seems to do almost the opposite of conventional thinking. Todays announcement should have been viewed as a credit event. I'm playing the tape. My trades are getting shorter and shorter in duration but in this enviornment staying in a position longer than a day can be very costly.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:23 | 1818911 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

"Bear market rallies tend to end on good news. What more good news is coming?"

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:58 | 1819370 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

This is true. I'm wondering if there might be one more little poke higher before this thing rolls over. My near term shorts are getting killed, but I didn't roll the dice with enough to hurt me if I was wrong (which I was). My longer term puts are cheaper now, but I expect they'll still be homeruns. When you swing for the fence, you're bound to strike out a few times. Just keep some dry powder. We have to be close to the roll.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:43 | 1818950 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Sell what news?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:13 | 1819059 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Exactly. The old wisdom of the market traders doesn't go out of date; it's just a matter of timing. I find it easy to remember Marc Faber's statement that this is a rally in a bear market, and there will be no new highs this year.

Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:38 | 1915079 haibop
haibop's picture

and make some serious money!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:04 | 1818863 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Since when do economist understand anything about reality?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:07 | 1818867 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Any bets on the Germans secretly starting the printing of Marks once again..??

Will they be the first in the EU to go back to the old currency.??

I just don't see them willing to fund the Greeks way of tax-evasion life.

Why would anyone want to do that..??

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:30 | 1818920 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Well, according to Some they have lost the keys of the Panzers so they have to drive helicopters.

And no TNT so they have to fill the shells with money.

Operation Solidarity, just your usual invasion...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:16 | 1819072 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Not betting on anything at this point, but there was an interesting article by Dan Amerman, sort of a what-if thought experiment.  No clue what is going to happen, but thought the following paragraphs provide an interesting viewpoint on why Deutschland may want to bolt sooner than later.  I think the odds lean towards the current EU accord sowing the seeds of far bigger problems on down the road. 

http://danielamerman.com/articles/2011/EuroFallC.html

"However, Germany didn’t actually borrow in its own currency, but rather in the currency of a monetary union. Therefore, while it is an unintended consequence, the EMU monetary crisis creates a windfall profit opportunity in that if Germany exits the EMU, it has a one time opportunity to effectively repay its external debts in drachmas and liras rather than marks. This windfall opportunity will carry its own accelerant, because the exit of Germany would shift the burden to France. France would now face the choice between carrying much of Europe’s financial burden on its back – or making its own exit from the euro, and reaping its own windfall profit, much like Germany. This exit would of course accelerate the destruction of the euro, which would increase the size of Germany’s windfall.

There is indeed a chance that if France thinks Germany is about to exit, then French national interest may require it to exit first. Being the first to exit means reaping the maximum windfall profits from the destruction of the value of a nation’s national debt.

Now this is certainly not to say that there won't be any economic chaos and turmoil in Germany, or that the resulting potential shrinkage of the German economy may not more than offset this fantastic windfall, or perhaps much more than offset it (with the same holding true of France). All else being equal, the German and French governments would strongly prefer that there were no monetary crises with their monetary union partners. The one time debt windfall from the destruction of the value of the euro may not provide anywhere close to enough value to voluntarily “cheat” bond investors.

However, if Germany feels it is forced to exit the economic and monetary union, the debt windfall effect provides a powerful incentive to do it sooner rather than later. The lower the euro falls, the greater the damage to Germany, and the less the benefits of the windfall. If things are right on the edge – the greater the chance that France will strike first, and reap the disproportionate benefits of being the first strong power to leave. Taken in combination, this means that while Germany will likely continue to do everything it can to avoid having to drop the Euro, if and when it decides an exit is inevitable – Germany will have powerful financial incentives to move with breathtaking speed in destroying the euro. As will France."

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:02 | 1819379 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Interesting. I'd say that could be the black swan but we all know you don't see the black swan coming.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:53 | 1819810 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

France + Russia "struck first" in 1914, via the Serbian catspaw. France + England "struck first" in 1939, by way of the backstab war declaration over Germany vs. Poland. It'll happen again, and once again the Germans will get the blame.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 11:05 | 1820857 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

In Kindleberger's "The World in Depression", he also looks at the post-WWI era, and there were lots of currency games being played in Europe as England and France jockeyed for primacy in the aftermath.  It's amazing how little things change - different day, different players (sometimes), but similar tactics.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:35 | 1819454 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

From Phoenix Capital Resurch:

One who is talking about this is Dr Pippa Malmgren, a former economic advisor to George W. Bush and a Director for Deutsche Bank. According to Malmgren, Germany has already ordered the printing of Deutsche Marks in anticipation of a possible withdrawal from the EU.

Malmgren states, "the social contract between Germany's citizens and its leaders preclude [debt monetization] given their history." She adds that,  "Germany has already begun to emphasize the need for a new EU Treaty that would compel fiscal harmonization, penalties for those that break the Maastricht Treaty rules and other undertakings that would harden Europe's defenses against economic default risks going forward."

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:06 | 1818870 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

It's not the size of the bazooka that's important, it's how you use it.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:08 | 1819236 optimator
optimator's picture

Panzerfaust in this case!  Or is that Offenrohr.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 01:25 | 1819941 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

We girls know better.  

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:06 | 1818871 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

Who doesn't like a good crack every now & then?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:08 | 1818875 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Wasn't there a "war option", The germans can use it eventually.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:08 | 1818876 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Damn...and I thought this hurricane of eurobullshit would last til Sunday 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:09 | 1818880 zonkie
zonkie's picture

The reality will sink in with a few downgrades. Let us see if it is a sovereign first or one of many balded banks (after the haircut)

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:11 | 1818886 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Bull Trap - yes. It may last few more days. The more violent it is to the upside, the more explosive it will be to the downside.

The stock market eats like a bird, and shits like a bear.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:54 | 1818991 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I called 'bull trap' throughout QE2.  Learned my lesson the hard way.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:30 | 1819288 knukles
knukles's picture

It's different this time around thanks to those fucking unimaginative German bankers.  No messing around all serious, no senses of humor, all numbers and reality.  No hopes and changes, nothing like a little imagination, cooking of the books, no Goddamned double or triple counting, no overprinting the money supply, no hyper-inflation, behaving like they think that they know all about that sorta shit. 
Pretty soon they'll be talking about starting to use them fucking Deutschemarke again.  Spoilsports
I mean who do they think they are telling everybody that they had to be fiscally responsible to get into the EMU, which everybody was.  Just didn't tell everyone they had to stay that way and now, Boom!  Get all huffy and pissed about it.
Never mind.  You get my drift.
Krauts need to lighten up.
It's only money for shit's sake. 
Like you'd think it was somebody's living or well being at stake.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 00:59 | 1819918 swissbene
swissbene's picture

same -- hurt real bad.  it broke me but i didnt get my mind right...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:12 | 1818887 St. Deluise
St. Deluise's picture

probably just a decimal point error. sure they meant 14.0 trillion.

so like 10x as euro positive.

or.. wait, which one is divide on the keyboard again? the slashy one or the one that looks like a cat's butthole

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:13 | 1818890 Irish66
Irish66's picture

(Reuters) - A growing number of lawmakers do not think another downgrade of the country's AAA rating will harm America's economy, raising questions about how much pressure Congress is under to fix the intractable budget deficit.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:45 | 1818955 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Deficits don't matter.

Nor does OWS average IQ.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:02 | 1819023 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I'd love to have a list of these fools. Probably the same ones that got us in to this mess.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:41 | 1819469 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

Wow.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:21 | 1818907 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

just got hold of a secret tape of the EU Summit sent to me by carrier pigeon coutesy of the Rothschilds. 

in it Angela Merkel is caught in a pow-wow plotting with EU movers and shakers before the summit's opening bell. 

embarrassing really. I call it Angie's basement tape... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRXN0iGaV1w

[yes, it does have the obligatory dance number] 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:20 | 1819076 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

"...hundreds of thousands foreclosures ... " sounds like he talks about US. Americans ... watch out!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:11 | 1819241 optimator
optimator's picture

Don't be shtupid be a schmarty................

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:22 | 1818910 semperfi
semperfi's picture

The bailouts will continue until morale improves, dammit !

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:19 | 1819082 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

LOL. Yes, very good.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:33 | 1818916 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  OUZO , anyone?  http://www.dcgreeks.com/ouzo_and_metaxa.asp

Don't blame me for the content, i stumbled upon it! Can't make this stuff up!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:34 | 1818929 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Was gonna post Metaxa, but you are on it!

H8 black licorice.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:25 | 1819094 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Speaking of licorice flavoring; when I was in Tahiti in 1973 you could order a drink called a "Marie Brisaud" at the waterfront cafe which was made with legitimate Absinthe. A couple of those and even the French Sailors in their short sleeve blouses and berets started to look cute.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:34 | 1819298 knukles
knukles's picture

Yeah, just like kissing Greek girls after a bit of Ouzo, you know with their moustaches.  Then ya reach down just to check it out that you really weren't in a blackout for a few days.   
Again.

Ah yes, I remember Marie all too well.....

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 05:07 | 1820076 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Marie Brizard, depuis 1755.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:33 | 1818927 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Machts nicht.  The precedent is set.  FTW!

Greece had a choice, and punted.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:36 | 1818932 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 So much for " GLADIATORS " :)

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:37 | 1818933 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What?  Bennie is sure GLAD; he can put off printing for a few months!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:41 | 1818942 Yen Cross
Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:46 | 1818961 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I prefer lines and mirrors.

 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:34 | 1818928 Durchbruch
Durchbruch's picture

The USA are the key factor. If a new depression hits the USA and the world, Europe can't help, they sink and the euro could break apart. Europe can't go through both global deflation and south european deflation.  

Today's GDP numbers have been important. If the world economy improves the euro keeps going. Bailouts and inflation will work fine with public debts. 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:38 | 1818937 mynhair
mynhair's picture

If?  You must be foreign.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:08 | 1819042 s2man
s2man's picture

No, he's native to where ever he lives. You are the foreigner.

Tue, 12/06/2011 - 23:04 | 1953545 haibop
haibop's picture

come on guys! range hoods

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:08 | 1819400 jdelano
jdelano's picture

Today's GDP numbers were totally made up.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 00:04 | 1819827 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

No, GDP is now the actual measure of food price inflation. Times 10.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:40 | 1818940 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

This looks like forced marriage to me.

Does Greece has any sovereignty left to unilaterally declare a default that works for her?

Ok dumb question. Next

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:46 | 1818959 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  The Germans are good @ collecting National treasures...  The Greeks have a few left<

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:30 | 1819107 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

You must be joking. The British are the ones with the Elgin Marbles on display at the British Museum; simply stolen from the Pantheon in Greece. This was big time, out front, daylight theft; and the British were very good at it. You accuse the wrong national group.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:04 | 1819152 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

+2 IQ, I was being sarcastic. We could discuss spoils pre/post war, but it's irrelevant.

  I appreciate your comment, and wisdom.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:38 | 1819304 knukles
knukles's picture

Betcha I'm the only one here who's rubbed his nads on the Elgin Marbles.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:07 | 1819393 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Well, I rubbed mine on Amanda's melons, but hell, who hasn't done that?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:08 | 1819396 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I suspect ? 45 is satisfied. After all he can't junk me twice<   I prefer ' Parthenon Marbles.'

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:41 | 1818943 They are all we...
They are all well Capitalised's picture

Bwa ha ha ha! I've got this pristine Unicorn fart for sale. Everything is good, dammit!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:42 | 1818948 Belarus
Belarus's picture

I wouldn't put it past the rating agencies to never downgrade France until they hit a negative 3% print....which would mean bond vigilantes would have to eventually do it.....or Sarkozy's meeting with China could have fared very well for the EFSF. 

Of course, it will all break down at some point. But I wouldn't be suprised for this to drag on for another 4 months, 6 months, year? Sigh. 

It will NEVER end. Using a Hugh Hendry phrase: we are afterall up against EVIL GENIOUSES. 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:49 | 1818973 mynhair
mynhair's picture

France won't be downgraded until the grapes turn sour.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:50 | 1818979 Belarus
Belarus's picture

Exactly, there is too much carrer risk to downgrade the soverings as has been learned. 

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 05:40 | 1820093 swiss chick
swiss chick's picture

Since the grapes have already been harvested...

It'll take a few months for them to turn sour...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:33 | 1819125 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

As a member of the (somewhat) evil genius class myself, I have to object to your spelling. I put the timeline at 3 to 5 years. It's always amazing how long it takes. No one "wants to know" and they keep "not reading" the hand writing on the wall for as long as possible.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:29 | 1819285 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

The best fiction writers couldn't make this shit up!  Stablity in the financial markets, what a fuckin' crock o' shit!  Let's change the rules or make up new ones as we go along!  Fuck me!  How does anyone but the big and well connected banks and corporations make any money in this market?  Oh, that's right, they don't. 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:49 | 1818972 Belarus
Belarus's picture

BTW, as was said here, anything less than 60% haircut on Greek Bonds would be nothing more than a big fat farce. Greece is also realizing this; which is why they know they're screwed for years on years under this current "Grand Plan" as they also almost have to give up their sovereignty. 

Kyle Bass said 75-80% haircut is the most realistic range: which is all too likely true given where the bonds wwere priced to market at 30% of par. So in a nutshell, the whole thing, the whole announcement, the whole rally, is one big tragicomedy. 

But with fear turning to greed, we really don't know how long the shennigans will last; we need a market even not statements from a German Central Banker with mere words such as "concerns" or "warning." That means nothing really, afterall the German Parliament approved this currenet iteration.

Now Greece protesting the haircutis almost too funny......Italy is definately going to want to get in on this act. It will be very interesting to see how long the charades can be kept up.

The onoy thing that makes me skeptical of this realistic view is that even CNBC was showing serious skeptiscism. Oh well......

Let the clusterfuck continue.  

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:49 | 1819170 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

Before it ends the "haircut" will be 100%.  Or maybe more if the Greeks can find a way.

 

Time for a Pork Chop.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:50 | 1818976 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

what...already?  well the central planners have until morning to save the rally, it will be interesting to see what rumors/headlines/bullshit they can manufacture before the open. hey maybe they can reduce unemployment to 1% and raise GDP growth to 25% just move the decimal point, it's not like the PTB's would need to back those claims up with facts or hard data. just those headlines alone would be enough to pump the DOW to 13,000 and the jobless, house-less recovery would be safe for another weekend.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:53 | 1818989 jcaz
jcaz's picture

I think they'll be too busy dealing with the rioting in the streets, once the Greeks figure out that it's almost showtime.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:34 | 1819296 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Berlusconi will have sex with 'the unfuckable' one while Sarkozy watches and the markets will rally...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:40 | 1819311 knukles
knukles's picture

Do not talk about My Angie of the Pure as Driven Snow White Satin Untouched Upper Thighs like that.  It's demeaning to me. 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:43 | 1819318 knukles
knukles's picture

Come to think aboout it on second thought, that could be quite a spectacle.  Two beached whales, bloaded flabberers, vibrating and slithing about whilst grasping, playing Twister.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:51 | 1818982 jcaz
jcaz's picture

And the best part?  I bet they still think that China is gonna step in as their sugar-daddy;

Not a freaking chance-  even Geithner isn't this stupid.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:04 | 1819225 unununium
unununium's picture

Geithner most definitely is this stupid since he proposed leveraging the EFSF at the European finance ministers meeting less than 2 months ago.

He was laughed out of the room, but still...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:54 | 1818983 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  This w (hole) hole, reckless tin hat deal is a joke!  120% of GDP by 2020!  Shit, I would rather go long on the Yellow stone Caldera! CDO's on petrified Flora, make more sense!!!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:03 | 1819223 oldman
oldman's picture

"Shit, I would rather go long on the Yellow stone Caldera!"

One of the funniest things that I have ever read here!  Thanks, Yen Cross               om

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:52 | 1818985 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Has anyone yet figured out that the Greeks borrowed triple digit billions of Euros to fund trips to the beach for retirees . . . . AND NOW THEY AREN'T GOING TO HAVE TO PAY IT BACK???

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:56 | 1819004 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Student loans.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:03 | 1819027 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 They meet in HADES, aka; the Under World, with the Financial Scumstas that be!  Troika is the enemy!

 

 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:18 | 1819537 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

What about you? Want borrow more to buy marble counter tops? Are you ready to pay it back? Fucken ubermensch from USA where 46 mln people getting food stamps.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:54 | 1818992 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

How long before Portugal, Italy, Ireland and Spain ask for their 50% reduction.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:14 | 1819062 Irish66
Irish66's picture

I think Portugal just went to 360 of gdp

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:46 | 1819327 knukles
knukles's picture

Fuck that.  I claim asylum.  My debt just went to 422%.

Yooo hoo, Silvio, Bunga Bunga time!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:00 | 1819503 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

How long until their bonds are dumped if no CDS to hedge?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:55 | 1819000 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Too late. Market up 300+ on this rumor. Bankstas win again.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:58 | 1819008 mynhair
mynhair's picture

How quick can hot money flows reverse?  Don't they have the same 3 day settlement as moi?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:59 | 1819009 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 

 

  • is greece holding out for 62% default, or retirement, whichever comes first?
  • are the germans just being pedantic?
  • does the pope shit banks?
  • is tyler deus' ex?
Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:01 | 1819021 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Can't wait for the rest of the PIIGS to chime in. And I was shocked, shocked the DOW was up a rational 300+.

 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:21 | 1819086 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

it goes vertical w/ the euro; US stock "mkts" love a strong euro

what could possibly go wrong?

those inexpensive puts are really inexpensive now, eh, gwar?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:06 | 1819031 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  The Pope shits , New World Order, Slewie...  Like the post!

   P.S. , the Germans are just being " prudent".

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:27 | 1819099 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

if you ever visit the EU website, you will see this embroidered in needlepoint on euopeon sheepskin:

"Prudence is The Mother of All Virtues"

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:59 | 1819190 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

"euopeon" , Slewie?   I am laughing my " COLON " , off though.  I have to admit that, you have a good impetus.

   Needlepoint is for the overpaid.   Slewie, Needlepoint  European.   Switcheroos, not aloud!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:30 | 1819289 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

did you see the potential avatar picture i tried to send you last week?

yen.cross

here's another for your consideration, y/c:  coalition-to-cancel-third-world-debt-yen-cross

...not that there's anything wrong with the paper bag...

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 20:44 | 1819323 oldman
oldman's picture

Damn! I'm glad you said that Slewie; I've been a little self-conscious myself.  Thanks  om

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 21:17 | 1819416 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  My Avatar, is my POST! If you want to email me slewie. hotfx@ymail.com

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:58 | 1819010 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Eurozone periphery is subprime and this sure looks like a liars loan to me.  "Resist we much."

 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:00 | 1819016 mynhair
mynhair's picture

...and about that we much....

Moron he is.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:09 | 1819044 gwar5
gwar5's picture

He be a 'maroon'.... who also bought himself a Bentley for his 50th birthday and owes $500k in back taxes. Rev. Al is a part of the 2%. 1% rich + 1% who are functionally illiterate.

 

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:34 | 1819129 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Most Libs are functionally illiterate.  Just look at OWS.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:22 | 1819547 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

Not those fiscal conservatives excited to vote in the former chairman of the KC Fed because they know he can run a pizza franchise though.

Only libs are easly deceived.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:58 | 1819011 Segestan
Segestan's picture

The socialist will simply say.... Print. They really think money is from the ECB. What can they do? Face reality?  Come on that would be a gun to the head.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:35 | 1819571 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

Do you live in a country where there is a political party not running up huge debt?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 18:59 | 1819013 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Is Greece about to use the Iceland plan and tell all the Bankers to take Royal Flying Sexual Conation?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:03 | 1819026 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Hell no!  Rioting is more fun!  (and probably paid for)

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 22:37 | 1819601 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Anybody seen the Riot Dog lately?  Those clips were fun.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:06 | 1819036 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

"TAXPAYERS HOLDING THE BILL"? Is this a surprise? That's the plan in a nutshell.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:07 | 1819038 NERVEAGENTVX
NERVEAGENTVX's picture

(non-ivy league trained)

HILARIOUS!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:13 | 1819058 Poofter Priest
Poofter Priest's picture

Here is how the 'relief' is working out in Greece.

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/griechenland-krise/angst-vor-schuldenschnitt-griechen-pluendern-ihre-konten-20624790.bild.html

Apparently there is a run going on at Greek banks.

One woman was quoted (paraphrased actually) as saying 'the only safe place for my money is at home.

Honey...it ain't safe there either.

Fri, 10/28/2011 - 00:45 | 1819906 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

The super wealthy and upper classes have already either moved their money out of the country and/or bought gold or both.

I read many Greeks opened accounts in Netherlands (beats me?!) and also bought gold and secured it in safe deposti boxes in the Big Cheese Country (sounds similar to what the Jews did pre-WW II) or in the Dutch Land.

Only the Hoi Poli are left withdrawing their meager money to hide under the bed or in the closet.....sad stuff.

Fascinating times.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:16 | 1819068 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dis-elect Boner!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:16 | 1819069 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

my last vid mash left out the Greeks... 

an oversight on my part... so Here's Angie with her dancing Nazis...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSB21EZQNkA

... 

something about a blue velour pants suit does it to me... !!!!

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 19:17 | 1819071 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

You learn as a lifeguard that you must sometimes either let the victim pass out or knock the victim out if you are to have any chance to save him and prevent harm to yourself.

The EuroPoliticos don't seem to have learned that, and now wonder why the victim is pulling them under.

The other alternative is to decide you don't need this BS and let the victim drown.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!