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Euro Rumormill Disintegration Begins As Reality Returns: France, Germany Fail To Reach Agreement On EFSF

Tyler Durden's picture


In our previous post we warned, indirectly through the IMF, that the biggest risk for Europe is the inability to reach consensus over anything from the most complicated, to the simplest matter. As noted previously, one of the main initial drivers of the market surge which has since translated into yet another short covering rally of epic proportions was the belief that Europe can actually come together in agreement over the simplest thing - like its own survival. Alas, it appears even that is not the case. As Bloomberg reports, "Germany and France are at odds over whether the European Financial Stability Facility should have limits on government bond purchases, Handelsblatt reported, citing an unidentified high-ranking European Union diplomat. France doesn’t want to restrict the EFSF on how much of its funds it can use for such purchases, the newspaper said in a preview of an article to appear in tomorrow’s edition. Germany wants to limit the amount EFSF can spend for bonds per country and is also considering whether there should be a time limit for bond purchases, Handelsblatt said." Said otherwise, here comes the latest cause of discord within Europe. Unfortunately, it also means that any rumor, innuendo and speculation that Europe has finally reached a coherent union over its own bailout can be promptly discarded. As if there was ever any doubt in the first place.

From Handelsblatt:

In Berlin and Paris argue about EFSF


Exclusive The euro rescue package to buy bonds from future debts States. But with how much money? France wants to give the fund a free hand - for the rescue could not stay no longer enough to fear Germany.


Brussels is a dispute between Germany and France erupted over the extent to which the euro rescue fund future EFSF may buy government bonds. France wanted to make the EFSF this respect no rules, told the Handelsblatt by a senior EU diplomat. This would theoretically mean that the EFSF could not use its entire volume of funding expended to buy bonds of a single Euro-state.


EFSF has a total of 440 billion euros, has been a part of it, however, scheduled for the loan packages to Ireland and Portugal. The federal government wants to limit the amount used for bond purchases per euro government, it said in Brussels. Think Germany will also share in a time limit on bond purchases.


The purchase of government bonds is one of three new instruments may have on the future of advanced EFSF. The design of these new instruments will be governed by guidelines to deal with the high officials of the euro finance ministers in Brussels at present. The guidelines must then be approved by the Budget Committee of the Bundestag. The German Parliament has made this a condition for agreeing to extended EFSF.

Cue the FT, Liesman, and/or some IMF guy we have never heard of with attempts to deny what is painfully obvious: Europe will never reach a consensus because the ultimate price of a European bailout is the absolutely certain suicide of the currently ruling political class. Alas, none of those bureaucrats wants to (or can) do anything else but "rule"...

And if the IMF advisor is right, Europe has less than a month to prove us wrong.


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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:54 | 1747657 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Rumor alert:

Europe will be the 51st state of the United States of Cramerica.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:00 | 1747683 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It's been just that since the mid-40s.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:04 | 1747689 Frog-And-Toad
Frog-And-Toad's picture


Don't forget Japan and Korea... We shipped our industry overseas after WWII to buy friends at our expense... 


Problem is the latest generation doesn't know anything different.  They realize that they don't need to slave for us for saving them after the war.   What are we bringing to the table now?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:40 | 1747804 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

oh cool! i love asian women!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 23:21 | 1748500 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"because the ultimate price of a European bailout is the absolutely certain suicide of the currently ruling political class. "


Fri, 10/07/2011 - 03:11 | 1748831 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

We shipped our industry overseas so that we could buy their goods with money we borrowed from them.

Buy hey. It's an improvement. Using credit cards is so much easier than working.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:13 | 1747718 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

how is Portugal part of europe anyways? 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:15 | 1747722 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Ever look at a map?  Used to be part of Andorra, I bet.

And that was a protectorate of Monaco, at one time, before Malta conquered it.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:42 | 1747816 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

no taxes in monaco i hear. that sounds so nice..

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:45 | 1748099 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

It's nice here in Hong Kong.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 23:30 | 1748515 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

cup of coffee. =. $30.00 and up

cup of coffee. =. starting at $25.00

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 00:56 | 1748688 Don Diego
Don Diego's picture

No, but try to live on a non-millionaire salary there

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:36 | 1747793 knukles
knukles's picture

I keep tellin' folks there are problems with Arkansas schools.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:19 | 1747738 spekulatn
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:05 | 1747863 mynhair
mynhair's picture

61, you, like many others, don't listen.

"been in 57 states, with 1 left to go.  Wasn't allowed by my staff to go to AK and HI"

Tried an inhalator yet?

What a moron that Kenyan is.

And to you ODummer supporters out there, this is a response to the response to the quip about..damn, confused them....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:44 | 1748097 Looney
Looney's picture

Cr... Cram... Cram-mogadishu...

If I were a pepper spray company, I would've switched to charging the Maze cans with Cramer's stench.

Here's the TV ad - "One gentle push on the Red Button and... your assailant, his family, friends, YOUR family and friends, neighbors, enemies, and the enemies' dogs are screwed beyond repair".

P.S. I wear fur (my first dog's) AND I approve this message!

Looney  ;-)

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:54 | 1747659 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Just paving the way for the inevitable IMF bonds.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:06 | 1747695 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

yeah, funded with US dollars.

None of this is surprising me.

Europe doesn't want to print, is it not obvious yet ?  And don't worry, that doesn't mean gold will go down. Just the opposite actually.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:18 | 1747737 agent default
agent default's picture

The ECB will not print to bail out the PIIGS.  They are saving their firepower to resque France and Germany when the time comes in about six months to a year.  But in the end they will print.  And then some.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:08 | 1747886 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Germany is planning an exit.  France wants Germany in a leverage EFSF, so it doesn't end up  holding the bag, and there's a mutual assured destruction, to check its regional power rival, if the CDO2 ends up imploding.

Germany already has an exit message: The bond purchasing by the ECB contravenes article 123 of the Maastriche Treaty.  And Germany will not accept...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:57 | 1747667 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:57 | 1747668 xtop23
xtop23's picture

 Jesus just collapse already Im getting bored

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:20 | 1747742 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Why do you want Jesus to collapse? He doesn't want no stinking bonds either

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:51 | 1748115 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Who is Jesus?

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 12:31 | 1749972 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

He's a Puerto Rican trader working at GS.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:57 | 1747670 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

So the bailout needs a bailout.


Owwwwwe, that'll be good for another 2% rally tomorrow in Bizarro World.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:59 | 1747674 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Just in time to screw with the overnites....big surprise.

To be refuted around 7:30am EST, no doubt.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:12 | 1747716 knukles
knukles's picture

Gotta have sumptin' to ridicule. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 17:59 | 1747675 mfoste1
mfoste1's picture

this is getting HILARIOUS.....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:00 | 1747681 paul_Liu
paul_Liu's picture

Why this is not reflectd in the AH market.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:04 | 1747696 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Cuz it's closed?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:17 | 1747731 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

All trading has been halted until the rumor/hopium/green shoots still can be fired up again at 8 am tomorrow to coincide with the HFT machines hitting their own offers every nanosecond like clockwork 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:02 | 1748016 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

All trading has been halted until the rumor/hopium/green shoots still can be fired up again at 8 am tomorrow to coincide with the HFT machines hitting their own offers every nanosecond like clockwork

During this halt, the HFT machines are being juiced with the binary equivalent of coke, hookers, and jimsonweed.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:01 | 1747685 Spider
Spider's picture

Whatever!  The french and the germans always play nice together - I mean other than the Napoleanic wars, WWI, WWII, and a few other minor conflicts they get along fine.

Nothing to worry about folks ... right?

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:20 | 1748717 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside, esp knowing that MY TAXDOLLARS were robbed by my government for the benefit of the "best and the brightest" of our country at Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs- both whom exposed themselves ON MY TAX DOLLARS to French banks (SG, Dexia and BNP Paribas).  

Before the NYSE merged with the German bank exchange. 

I'm not so sure about this hedging strategy. I prefer the Asia-Pacific rim, Argentina or maybe a tax haven like our lobbyists.  


Fri, 10/07/2011 - 07:18 | 1748968 optimator
optimator's picture

1871 Franco Prussian wasn't minor and should be listed. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:02 | 1747690 mynhair
mynhair's picture

"unidentified high-ranking European Union diplomat"

Wish that fat pig, Michael Moore, would die of a pie overdose.


"Pass this bill!"

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:25 | 1747760 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

ditto for rush limburger

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:36 | 1747783 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Actually not, you stupid f^^k. Limbaugh reads this site, references it on air, and occasionally learns something from it. Michael Moore? Busy studying the Communist Manifesto for New Ideas.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:47 | 1747837 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

i don't care what your political persuasion is but anyone who takes a crack addict like rush limbaugh seriously should get their heads examined. michael moore? well, he's just a socialist who got rich playing the capitalist game.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:00 | 1747866 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Oh I am tired of these jokers. Let them fight in some remote desert arena. I'd pay to see that. But no survivors. Next: Krugman vs. Coulter.

Hey - all I am saying - no left/right bullshit. There is a common ground for both sides. Sheesh - I hope you don't do something stupid like another civil war or something like that.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:09 | 1748161 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

THUNDERDOME! 2 go in... 1 comes out.

Coulter would kick Krugman's ass.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:10 | 1748162 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

double post, really? need to get check for parkinsons


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:31 | 1747932 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

wow, a bold comment. heh heh


Hey Rush, suck my ballz.


Limburgher = fat, greasy, drug addled, ass muncher retard

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:41 | 1747973 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

actually CompassionateFascist, you can have a lick too since you and limburgher are butt buddies.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:40 | 1747967 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Would you say that's your Compassionate side, or...?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:52 | 1747975 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

he is in touch with his latent repressed homosexual rage. lulz


edit: after some research it appears that CF bolds all his comments. For example:

Almost everyone on this site looks at the oncoming economic collapse....but the political system is also core-rotten and nearing collapse. Put the two together and you get the Thing Which Has Yet To Be Named. TSA? Both the upper echelon Oinks (Bankers, plutocrats, politicians) and lower echelon Oinks (TSA, public employee unionists, urban libs...those currently "occupying Wall St") are going to be hunted to extinction.


Now what would his buddy Rush think of that? BREEHEEHEE!! 

edit #2: CF wrote: End the Fed. Liquidate the banksters. Break the Zionist/Communist JewPower.

OMG!! Mi Hermano! Fantastico! Goy power! GIVE US A KISS! :*)

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:11 | 1748034 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"unidentified high-ranking European Union diplomat"

Wish that fat pig, Michael Moore, would die of a pie overdose.

Even better, a house falling from the sky on Ann Colter while engaged in a retard argument (shouting contest) with Michael More, mashing them both into a paste.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:04 | 1747694 hambone
hambone's picture

WAIT - this just in...France has voted to discontinue the French language, baguettes, and the Tour de France...all further details regarding these triffling matters will be communicated via Frankfurt, Berlin, and the high atop Berchtesgaden.

Wait...sorry, that's tomorrow's's rumor tbd asap...definitely gonna be bullish though!!!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:06 | 1747700 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Whew!  Scared me; like  baguettes.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:07 | 1747701 walcott
walcott's picture

or choke on a sanwhich like his fat sister momma cass.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:56 | 1748133 BetTheHouse
BetTheHouse's picture

Just think: If Mama Cass had just given her sandwich to Karen Carpenter, they'd both be alive today.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:26 | 1748197 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

+1 lb of ham 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:10 | 1748300 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Keith Moon died in the same room as Mama Kass, choked too, i think.

Off subject but HMMMM.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:08 | 1747703 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Hell has frozen over. The French refuse to surrender to the Germans.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:10 | 1747711 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Just give them time.  Merkel hasn't tried to buy a flat in Paris yet.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:09 | 1747709 Gene8696
Gene8696's picture

Not the first time the Germans owned the Eiffel Tower, next time maybe from a Repo.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:33 | 1747780 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

I don't think we will own it. Let's face it: Reggie will own it.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:05 | 1748709 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Can he short Carlyle Group ? :-P

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:09 | 1747710 Zer0henge
Zer0henge's picture

Should I buy more Google and Apple yet or not?  That's all I want to know.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:12 | 1747714 mynhair
mynhair's picture

No, PCLN is the one.  Maybe GM.

Too late for ZUMZ.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:13 | 1748172 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

PCLN already had a jump this week. Wait for the dip.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:22 | 1747751 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

No those are so 2010, Take a look at P, LNKD, and OPEN... solid business models and very undervalued after this correction. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:13 | 1748037 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Go long on TARD.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:32 | 1748204 prains
prains's picture


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:30 | 1747772 Gene8696
Gene8696's picture

I love the way the talking heads keep saying Apple has the most sales per sqft. than any other retailer, by far... Total revenue per sqft retail is my guess. Apple's revenue is net based... Good revenue, but I haven't bought many Apps or music at the mall lately.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:15 | 1747725 J 457
J 457's picture

DOW 10,000 next.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:18 | 1747736 mynhair
mynhair's picture

dam, where's my 9K hat?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:16 | 1747727 Hopium Dealer
Hopium Dealer's picture

Controlled defaults are out of the window now. Chaos inbound.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:16 | 1747729 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

They are going to shoot their wad and all they are going to get is ... Zombie banksters. 

No ... not you Main Street.  No bailout for you.  Peons.

Who cares what tax payers think.

You know ... I've got a pitchfork in my garden.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:25 | 1748063 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

You know ... I've got a pitchfork in my garden.

Pitchforks and garden forks are useful and versatile tools.

Helpful hint: when given a choice, always go with forged steel; you'll be glad you did.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:17 | 1747735 Belarus
Belarus's picture

42th rumor falls on its face. They will unleash another one tomorrow after the shitstorm NFP number....just in time for the 12:00 ramp.

But judging by the "Occupy Wall Street" momentum, not a single soul alive believes the DOW is a proxy for the real economy anymore, and rightly so.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:20 | 1747740 mynhair
mynhair's picture

NFP will be....ummmm...whiskey....I see it now!   71,000K!

So sez Oracle Jones. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:24 | 1747756 Belarus
Belarus's picture

.....Chivas Scotch/Whiskey in hand: ZERO.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:43 | 1747820 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

+110 K .... revised lower next month, when we're back to 1200- 1250 on the S&P

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:55 | 1747850 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

But judging by the "Occupy Wall Street" momentum, not a single soul alive believes the DOW is a proxy for the real economy anymore, and rightly so.

As real as "The Markets", which work in ON/OFF Mode.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:32 | 1747946 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Morons have momentum?  Oh, never mind, look at the WH.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:21 | 1747743 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

NOW we can insert mushroom cloud pictures. The longs are about to get a long one again....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:22 | 1747748 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Only the overnite longs.  Robo told me so.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:22 | 1747747 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Wonder id France learned it lesson and didn't cement it's ICBMs in place

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:23 | 1747753 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I am not familiar with that French pastry, would you please expound further?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:15 | 1748177 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, .... huh ... shame on... huh... shame.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:24 | 1747758 kito
kito's picture

i dont see any movement from the markets on this

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:27 | 1747763 mynhair
mynhair's picture

"suspension of belief"

though the Stinko has heartburn....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:28 | 1747768 tomreagan
tomreagan's picture

Can't wait to see how Germany feels about 5pct 10yr yields. Just like Goodfellas. Need to guarantee the banks. Fk u pay me. Need to guarantee Portugal. Fk u pay me.....I see the train a comin', comin' round the bend....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:47 | 1747834 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture


* mit den Zähnen knirschen; to gnash one's teeth

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:08 | 1748713 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Bundesbank became a world champ in that sport.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:30 | 1747773 knukles
knukles's picture

I mean really.  Who cares which or how many of whatthefuck ever bonds they're gonna buy, whether they're money good or not, even rated or not (like it matters whether they are or not because nobody's gonna pay any attention) however long they can or cannot purchase bond for, issued by whom, through whom, payable in what monetary unit, by which means, for what settlement, whether there'll be a w/i market or not, how many, who, from what countries, will they be recognized or not, and of even what nationality, race, color, gender, creed that will be allowed to participate as dealer, manager, broker, custodian, trustee, counter-party, wire-transfer agent, printer, newspaper of record or newspapers, in what language or languages and which shall be listed first, last or otherwise, who or what groups will be heralded for translation services, catering, driving, security, where the next meeting shall be held, what terms and conditions are for repayment of expenses, per diem allowances, sundry monies and free charges, exemption from trivial search and seizures, diplomatic immunity, and segregated toilets. 
Not to mention whether wives, boy friends, girl friends, significant others cousins, brothers, sisters, moms, dads and any other assoicated person or persons by virtue of marriage (common, formal whether civil or in a church, temple, mosqe or other form of spiritual guidance entity) or blood may attend, partially attend, accompany or even be present whether for casual exchanges, sightseeing, sex, funky extreme sex, perverted sex, fetish oriented group sex or whatever the case may be, public or private, whether it is acceptable to consume drugs and alcohol on ones own time, business time or any other specified times, where to eat and stay, as well as allowances for new shoes due to the wear and tear associated with cultural absorption when away from home done for the full and exclusive benefit of the further integration of the EU, EMU, EFTA, as wll as any and all other Eu related organizations, committees, concerns, collectives and responsibilities known or unknown approved or unapproved, to be decided within the auspices of each yet to be named delegates good conscience.

Now, does anybody really fucking think there is a chance in hell that there will be a good, happy, constructive, reasonable outcome of all this chickenshit?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:33 | 1747781 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Of course there will;  I have hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place, so roll, dammit!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:39 | 1747801 gmj
gmj's picture

I think I've got a couple of contracts written by you.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:07 | 1747880 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

World outside US is complicated. And now take your pills....yes the blue one

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:35 | 1748083 itstippy
itstippy's picture

"Now, does anybody really fucking think there is a chance in hell that there will be a good, happy, constructive, reasonable outcome of all this chickenshit?"

It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:53 | 1748122 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

So, what was time, again?

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 01:13 | 1748714 knukles
knukles's picture

I just got home from a dinner with friends... quite a compleate array of the political spectrum (speculum?).  After picking my brain as to "where" we are, simply setting the stage of the world as I read it with very little personal color, reciting lots of stastics, etc., painting a very gloomy picture, much as Rosie did today (obvious influence)....
Everybody wanted to prognosticate upon the "Solution".  Their Solution!  Mine is better than yours, etc.  You know, the control the futrue routine and the whole thing devolved (with me sitting idly by amazed at the depth of the Hegelian Dialectic they willingly, comfortably dove into) have concluded...

That what time is it?
It's Howdy Doody Time.
We are fucked.

I pray for the best, plan for the worst.
...accepting the things that I cannot change...

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 14:30 | 1750474 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Interesting, Knukles. I think people are starting to wake up. A year ago, when I said that we had fixed nothing since 2008, only made the situation worse, they looked at me funny, it was like people had already forgotten we were on the brink of disaster in 2008. Now, people are asking questions. The tone seems to have changed. People are slowly waking up and realizing we've been screwed several times over by TPTB. Interesting times, my friend.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:31 | 1747776 evolutionx
evolutionx's picture

European Central Bank commits suicide


"Our central bank is committing suicide. On the one hand they are helping banks with billions and billions. They are buying junk bonds, billions and billions. I mean, where does this lead to? It is one of the last nails in the coffin of our central bank."

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:34 | 1747784 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

Is tomorrow Black Friday or is that next week?  I can't wait much longer, gonna throw a kick ass party.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:37 | 1747795 mynhair
mynhair's picture

00, green.

You lose.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:34 | 1747785 chump666
chump666's picture

Still within the 48hr rumor meltup, could be a close call.  Still the VIX should spike, Futures will tank and the EUR will resume it's selling (was prior to the EZ/US/ECB markets meltup).

The Germans will love oil being bid again (extra tax).

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:40 | 1747803 kito
kito's picture

not sure if tyler covered this, but as the eurozone teeters, comrade putin is beginning his own plans for the new eurasia zone. and from what i hear, many countries such as khazkhastan are taking to it. if it works out, we are talking about a group of countries that will hold tremendous leverage over the world with their bountiful natural resources.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:58 | 1747861 Gene8696
Gene8696's picture

Oil... Don't believe all the technology we are now using to increase US production is a secret. There is oil everywhere here.. And old "dry" wells are now pumping big. Putin will have the same access to his old dry wells.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 12:37 | 1750004 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Putin is calling his empire EURASIA?

That means he's about to annex europe...reality mimics science fiction.


the USSR annexed continental Europe and established the second superstate of Eurasia. The third superstate, Eastasia comprises the regions of East Asia and Southeast Asia.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:38 | 1748220 prains
prains's picture

"bountiful natural resources" = depleted ukranians

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:49 | 1747840 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

bullish for euro? can i short it now...?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:53 | 1747842 Thought criminal
Thought criminal's picture

I was hoping Slovakia would delay the EFSF approval, but one of their key parties (which said they were never gonna approve it) made a 180° turn at the last moment. All the same whores, it is sad...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 18:55 | 1747853 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Germany and France will find a modus operandi when push comes to shove. Problem solved, again no crisis/collapse/Armageddon.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:32 | 1748075 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Germany and France will find a modus operandi when push comes to shove.

War again?

Problem solved, again no crisis/collapse/Armageddon.

Yeah, yeah, that's what they always say.


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:01 | 1747869 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

Like watching a mime trapped in an invisible box ... and just as entertaining.  Useless theatre without end. 


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:04 | 1747874 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Just wait, Tyler. Sarkozy is mobilizing his Franco-NATO troops and is ready to invade the wealthy German Ruhr Vally "to protect the civilians" and capture Germany's industrial areas to teach the Teutonic Tribes a lesson.

The Frogs have never gotten over being whipped in WWI and then humiliated again in WWII. They are begging for an excuse---this time the refusal of Germany to sacrifice its "volks" to save the French (and Greece, Italian, Portugal, Spain) bankers.

Add to that Sarkozy's obcession...compulsion to win the next Nobel Peace Prize and presto! have a Franco-Belgian invasion of the Rhine Valley in the name of "democracy" or "to save the civilains."

Hey, it's possible...stranger things have happened, right?

Who knows?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:07 | 1747882 knukles
knukles's picture

Snarko's an angry French midget.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:11 | 1748033 chump666
chump666's picture


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:07 | 1747883 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Been saying for a while: EFSF would be a backdoor bailout for the biggest Ponzi scheme of em all: the one where Wall Street, French, German, UK and Swiss banks colluded to by trading deriviatives back and forth to each other to give the false impression of business (like Madoff). Of course that meant big charges, fees and bonuses. Now not all want to bail these guys out at the expense of their taxpayers financial security, and still others don't know just how big this was. 

Without this massive bailout the Ponzi will collapse with global contagion. That's why Geithner and Sarco have been pushing so hard for it. 

An alternative to bailouts is now on the table: nationalization. That's what they'll do unless taxpayers put their foot down like in Iceland. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:20 | 1747921 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:11 | 1747894 r101958
r101958's picture

Another rumor of disaster because oil, gold and silver have reached upper limits of the 'goal' area. Watch tomorrow for a sell off in equities, oil, gold and silver. Then on Monday the paper profits will be used to have a 'market recovery' as over the weekend the Eurozone will manufacture another rumor that they have found common ground for a future agreement. What a farce. Then oil, gold and silver will go up again, just to be taken down again. All manipulated and all the while some people are getting hosed....maybe us, eh? Maybe this is another form of Fed easing.... TBTF's make their money and prop up the market.....somebody is losing though....if they aren't then somebody is throwing around a lot of 'free' money.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:12 | 1747896 zebra
zebra's picture

aren't they all hands-in-hands, lips-to-lips, unanimously support the no-one-left-behind (except middle class) bailout, QEx, whatever-you-name-it, bill?


Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:17 | 1747911 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Thought for a moment there the Stinko found the TUMS.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:32 | 1747949 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Germany and France are like a pig and a chicken arguing over bacon and eggs for breakfast. For the chicken, it involves a contribution; for the pig, it's more of a commitment. Germany doesn't need the Euro, but the rest of the EU needs Germany('s accumulated savings of 65 years). Don't do it, Deutschland.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:48 | 1748107 msmith
msmith's picture

The Markets are oversold and will correct higher in the weeks ahead.  An analysis of the SPX and Gold.  -- Both are looking bullish for the next several weeks.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:50 | 1748114 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Was there ever any doubt about which winners to pick in the USA? Let me guess: "it wasn't the Bank of North Dakota." Let us "cue to Europe then." Hmmm. Sound easy? DB? Soc Gen? BBVA? Hank Paulson didn't know what was on the various banks' balance sheets when he went all in. He had a good idea though as the former Chairman of Goldman Sachs since his only job at that point is to value those companies and then proceed to kill them. That's a very valuable "instinct" to have in trying to rescue someone as well which was his job as Treasury Secretary. This obviously is not do-able in Europe. New York is unique because it so patently is "the financial capital." Obviously we can look at London as well--but we should ask ourselves what is the common trait among currency unions should we not? It sounds pretty advantageous if there's a crisis "i can call up that guy and he'll fix it" instead of having meeting...after meeting....after meeting...after meeting. Of course then we might want to ask "what is the job of a Central Banker then?"

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:17 | 1748180 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

the belief that Europe can actually come together in agreement over the simplest thing - like its own survival. Alas, it appears even that is not the case



I say Hurrah! The end of debt slavery !

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:55 | 1748250 maw53704
maw53704's picture

my hedge-spread in the (low 7 figures) is that precious metals will become much more expensive in terms of euros than in terms of dollars. the eu is inflating its way out of trouble like the U.S.. The significant difference and the opportunity to make money lies in the velocity of money.The bankrupt companies in the U.S. were recapitalized and made to understand that this bailout was conditional on not making loans. "borrow the money, buy U.S. paper and we will give away the spread." The only leakage is into the call market, and into bonuses to financial executives.

The Europeans are bailing out financial institutions and governments. The European "financial moneys" can be sterilized in a similar fashion as in the U.S.. The government bailouts will be immediately spent with a high velocity. Inflation between the two entities should increase at different velocities. There in my opinion lies a low risk high return investment. Any one else making the same bet. marc

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:16 | 1748324 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

It's all falling apart, and they can't control it not one bit.  All they are doing is throwing money at a money pitt (Greece) in order for them not to default and start a chain reaction.  At the mean time another problem has arisen with the Belgium bank that needed two bailouts to stay funded.  There is no way out of this whol scenario unless they and the US decided to have inflation/hyperinflation or turtle and take their lumps with the defaults and the bad decade or more to come.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 22:19 | 1748334 essence
essence's picture

Alot of banter and pithy comments going on here.... but few apprising the situation objectively.

In a nutshell, note how there's an element of Germany becoming aware of how the bankers are screwing them over, meanwhile, in france, apparently the citizens are busying themselves screwing their stylepretty wives and enjoying a good meal. Nevermind calling out the corrupt bankers.

Thus, France gives carte blanche to its midget president (what is it with france and its penchant for midgets) and is happy to otherwise occupy themselves, while Germany begins to awaken to the reality of confronting the bankers that control the world.


By the way, did I ever tell you all my condensed version of European history?

Basically it boils down to the Brits had ugly.dumpy wifes who couldn't cook, the french had beautiful, thin wifes who could cook. Hence the English men went and stayed at sea, won the important sea battles, won the colonial wars.


Fri, 10/07/2011 - 02:59 | 1748818 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Meredith Whitney: We already are Europe !

US state and municipal finances are on the brink

Today, Dexia said it only backs about $9.6 billion in muni bonds, since it has been exiting the business of providing liquidity to cities and states. That's just 0.3% of the $3 trillion U.S. municipal bond market.

US Junk bonds get crushed in market chaos

Investors became so nervous in the past two months that they're not willing to gamble on risky junk bonds anymore - despite the lucrative promise of high yields.The junk, or high-yield, bond market has tumbled along with the stock market, which suffered its worst performance in three years.

Traders say it's eerily reminiscent of the months leading up to Lehman Brothers' bankruptcy in 2008.

In a world where it's remarkably difficult to find yield with 10-year U.S. government Treasuries yielding less than 2%,
investors are still fearful of the risk associated with high returns.

Before August, the high-yield market was soaring, and investors were on pace to generate annualized returns of roughly 11%. But shortly after the stock market started gyrating wildly in August, investors sold off even the safest of the junk bonds, which are those rated BB. These BB bonds are down roughly 5%, and the CCC bonds are down 13% for the year.

The sell-off in junk bonds moved more swiftly Friday, the last trading day of the third quarter. Traders said many hedge funds that have fared poorly in the past few months were rapidly selling out of positions in junk bonds.

Many lower-performing hedge funds fear that investors will soon ask for redemptions in the next few weeks.
Hedge funds are selling off positions to store up cash to give it back to investors. Some companies with risky bonds have been especially hard hit. Bond prices have dropped sharply because investors are fearful that some risky companies could default or even go bankrupt. But several hedge fund managers said banks are also less willing to take the other side of risky trades.

That could mean an uptick in bankruptcies for shaky companies with 2012 maturities if things don't turn around.

The number and size of high-yield bonds issued in the first nine months of 2011 was up 43% from the same period in 2010 and hit the highest level since 2007, according to data provider Dealogic. Only 12% of these junk bonds were issued in the third quarter.

What's driving the mass exodus from junk bonds is largely the looming questions over how the European Union will handle a potential default in Greece and what other problems might arise if Greece does renege on its debt.

"You can see a path where if things are handled poorly then you have a replay of 2008,"

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 05:11 | 1748897 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Sarko is going closer to the trigger. He will do everything to have his way, which is the way of Geithner, Bernanke and Co.

The question is how tough is Angela and how much back-up Germany gets from other EU countries. So UK, Greece, France want to start the printing press. Others wait what is happening, they are undecided like Spain, Italy, Portugal and Ireland too I guess. They are undecided because these countries have a long experience with weak currency before the Euro was introduced. They know the advantage and the disadvantage exactly. They can live with both but prefer clearly a strong the Euro because they know it is better.

Then we have Netherlands, Austria, Finnland. They back-up Germany . The bigger non Euro countries like Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Czechia clearly prefer a strong Euro because it is in the advantage of Germany and that is their advantage too because these countries are economically tightly interwoven with Germany.

The French people (not Sarkozy) in their overwhelming majority tend to Germanys position because

a) they have the same bad experiences with a weak currency and high inflation like Spain, Italy etc. Before the French Franc was alligned to the German Mark in the late 1970s several zeros had to be removed from their money, the so-called old Franc disappeared. Since then the French enjoyed a stable currency.

b) There exists a feeling both in France and in Germany that it is good for both nations not to be confrontative to each other. Both want to live in peace with their neighbour. Its not anymore like in the old times for sure. Its not like surrendering to Germany. No,  deep in their heart the French people know that Germanys position makes more sense also for them.

For the French Sarkozy is a catastrophy because he guided them into a new colonial war. The Lybian adventure does find extreme little acceptance in France. This is more like a coup from Sarkozy backed by the US and UK.  You can see this by the fact, that last week the French senate( I think thats the name) was elected. Its something like the upper house if I understand it correctl. However this chamber was since ever dominated by conservative fractions. But now in a landslide victory Sarkozys men were washed away.

So what will happen?. As we all know the French are an Atom power. To my knowledge they should have still a huge number of Hades short range atomic rockets. They have a range of approx. 400 Km and were designed to stop the Russian invasion on the German soil.  It was the plan of course that Germany is the battlefield, thats why all rockets whether from East or West would have went down on Germany. Luckily this never happend. 

This will also not happen now. But what I want to say is: There exists some kind of a militaric option. Of cource not nuclear its more on a hidden CIA coup level.  Germany (and Italy)  is a huge hub with several headquarters of the US military for all kind of operations (open or undercover) throughout Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. So its all there if something is needed. To force Germany to do what the US, UK together with their  agent Sarkozy want is by no doubt an option. But the question is will the US go that far. I hope not and I do not believe it, but one should not forget, that the power brokers in Washington usually do not stop if they meet resistance.  And one should not forget, that these people are used to make very grave decisions which kill hundreds of thousands mostly innocent people for example the IRAQ embargo had such severe consequences at that time. Now everyday they kill people with their drones and bombs in Afgahanistan, Pakistan, Lybia, Yemen and where else.

What I want to say it would be not a big think for them emotionally to introduce harsher methods on Germany. Its nothing. They only decide if it makes sense.  Nowadays because of the internet and what I call "worldwide information society" it is extremely difficult to hide such actions. And their fear is only not to push Germany and the EU on the longer run even more towards China and Russia. This is the only thing what is holding them back in my opinion.

Its crunch time now on many fronts and nothing is decided yet.


Fri, 10/07/2011 - 10:21 | 1749522 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

It's time to start arresting these criminals.

They have no power or authority over us, their authority is self-appointed, obtained through fraud, murder, lies and theft.
All the debt owed to them is null and void, for the debt is a fraud and the creditors are a parasite on mankind.

Come out from them, do not bow to them, do NOT OBEY THEIR UNLAWFUL ORDERS! Arrest them!

All who serve or served in uniform and all citizens honor your oath of office!

The U.S. Government lies, cheats, steals, misappropriates public funds, seizes and redistributes private funds, outsources middle-class jobs through phony trade agreements, succumbed to the privately-owned Federal Reserve, has given away or sold our technology and public lands to well-connected private citizens and/or foreign countries, has secretly initiated the North American Union, confiscates private property, kills and maims its own citizens, kills and maims foreign citizens and has established a Nazi-style police state in the name of the phony war on terror and the 9-11 fairy tale.



Neither the State Government nor the United States Government is sovereign over the People of the 50 states. They are merely agents and public servants.



Under our form of government, the legislature is not supreme. It is only one of the organs of that absolute sovereignty which resides in the whole body of the People. And like other bodies of government, it can only exercise such powers as have been delegated to it, and when it steps beyond that boundary, its acts are utterly void. Billings v. Hall, 7 California 1.



The People are the sovereign owners of America and the boss of the government. The People do not dilute their sovereignty by delegating authority to others any more than the King of England would lose his sovereignty by delegating certain powers to others. If America is to be restored to the well respected, prosperous, and righteous and free Nation it once was, it is up to We the People, the absolute sovereigns to make it happen. It is time for the American People to unite and do some house cleaning in our government.



"Power concedes nothing without demand"

Sovereign Americans, they are stealing our Country. Let us get it Back.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 10:08 | 1765450 karmete
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