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Europe Closes On 'Bailouty' Hope As Rumor Of Major Fund Liquidating PMs Grows Louder

Tyler Durden's picture


The unerring belief that powers greater than mere mortals will vanquish the enemy of lack-of-bank-capital this weekend was enough to spur a significant turnaround in European stocks and spreads as they headed towards the close. While optically, the strength in senior financials spreads appears wondrous, we note that subordinated spreads are underperforming seniors significantly (when one would expect them to be outperforming if all was really well) and broad equity indices (and credit indices) only managed to get back to marginally unchanged. Sovereign risk remains notably wider still - which has the smell of a bailout/nationalization risk-transfer to it in our ever so humble opinion.



As we have been mentioning for a few days now, the scramble for macro hedges had pushed all the major credit indices notably wide of their fair-value and this afternoon (in Europe) had the feel of rotation from the macro index hedges to individual more discriminatory hedges (or more simply selling underlying positions as higher beta and lower quality credits were net sold and underperformed. For example, XOver ended the day -9bps at 836bps while intrinsics (the fair-value based on the underlying names in the XOver portfolio) widened over 10bps. The same pattern of single-name underperformance of indices is evident in Senior financials, Main (Europe's investment grade index) and also in HY and IG over here - so we wouldn't be getting too excited by this move quite yet.

On the topic of discrimination - not all European financials were doing well today with Banco Popolare, Lloyds TSB, Credit Suisse, and UBS all wider on the day as SocGen rallied but remains inverted and BNP Paribas flat across its term structure (never a good sign). Furthermore, the underperformance of Subs to seniors suggests some are lining up more in the senior-sub decompression space (even if they weren't already) and we note that at current levels, a 47% recovery for senior bondholders would imply a ZERO recovery for subordinated bondholders.

Across all the sovereigns that we track, only Italy, Spain, and France are modestly tighter on the day but we do note that on a GDP-weighted basis Sovereign risk improved very modestly -1bps to 310bps for Europe. CEEMEA remains hit hard on the day as do the majority of EM sovereigns (Ukraine +100bps to 875bps and Czech Republic +29bps to 181bps) as are AsiaPac (Vietnam +25 to 480bps).

Away from credit, FX markets have been volatile - following the overnight G-20 comments and inevitable disappointment but the EUR remains positive on the day though is leaking abck weaker as we close.

This modest dollar weakness is doing very little for PMs - even as Copper and Oil rebound from their week-lows. We suspect the continuing selloff in Gold and Silver is due to the ever louder liquidation/redemption rumors at you-know-who.

And finally in the US TSY complex, we have started to see some covering back as 5Y yield actually turned higher post Bernanke for a moment and 30Y pulls back from record low yields.


All-in-all, it seems like today was a pause day as opposed to a bounce day and much of the apparent strength ion risk assets can be attributed to technicals and rotation by professionals after a chaotic week. We only hope they get what they want over the weekend but suspect they will not.


Charts: Bloomberg


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Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:18 | 1701663 Racer
Racer's picture

Transfer the debt from banksters to the poor and elderly again

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:26 | 1701728 So Close
So Close's picture

"We suspect the continuing selloff in Gold and Silver is due to the ever louder liquidation/redemption rumors at you-know-who."


No... I humbly state I do not know who... but would like to know.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:32 | 1701761 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If you posted that in bold and ALL CAPS, you might get a faster reply.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:50 | 1701864 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

I called Silver top back near 45... man... it remains to be the best trade that I have never done...  Good luck to all!

SLV, over the last 2 days.... what safe haven...

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:53 | 1701876 fuu
fuu's picture

You also called Yen at 100+ earlier this year. How is that working out for you?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:06 | 1701977 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Don't argue with brilliance!   Especially  anonymous internet posters that don't document their portfolio or investment history.   Such arrogance will not be tolerated!   You should genuflect in the presence of greatness such as this....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:25 | 1702088 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Anonymous?!?!, Mr. Sohpist Economicus, what is your name, investment record and home phone number.   Please be so kind and post them on the internet, if you like.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:31 | 1702177 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Once again, I wouldl ike to point out the Zero Hedge's conflict of interest policy on the lower right hand corner of your browser.

It would be very wise of you to study ourdisclaimer, our privacy policy and our (non)policy on conflicts / full disclosure.

It is my long time suspicion that Tyler needs money and decided to partner up with Gold 4 Cash, RanSquawk, and other "sponsers".

Be very careful, EVERYBODY has an angle, here and elsewhere.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:53 | 1702967 eisley79
eisley79's picture

you do know that tyler isnt just one person right....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:27 | 1702076 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Thank you for researching my history.  Once again, incomplete information, but thanks for trying.

That was back in Fukushima, I was short Nikkei and Short USD/Yen.  USD/Yen went from $80 to $75 to $82 in less than 40 minutes on March 16th(?).  That was my single biggest pay date.  I left the asset after that.  Nikkei on that Monday after Fukushima dropped 20%, (check the futures.).   You have to be nimble people... can't stick with one trade and call yourself a genius.  (which, I am clearly not.)

But appreciate the fond memories.  I will continue short SLV. (in spirit, I mean... too volatile to be a "safety" haven.)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 19:06 | 1703883 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Is that you, Karl?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:32 | 1701762 trav7777
trav7777's picture

me too, bc gold is getting CRUSHED.

Silver too...poor mosely-claven has probably committed suicide

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:14 | 1701850 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Travis.. you know that Physical PM's are safer than paper (fiat) of any nationality. think swiss franc, LOL!

So dont make the new people think that this is anything less than a buying oppurtunity, Buy Low.. Sell High! or hold on to it..

Buying on the way down is not a bad thing and buying a little on the way up is not a bad thing.. but buying Gold in the $1,600's and Silver in the $30's before the Central Banc(k)'s of the World start printing to save the TBTF's is a Lovely way to pick up some paper profits and be a WHOLE LOT! more secure in your holdings.

and please dont forget ammo!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:26 | 1702129 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

i don't understand what the big deal is.  if someone had told me that i could buy gold for $1,700 just two weeks ago, i would've gone in with both hands as i was a buyer until $1,800.  at $1,650, i have zero fear of buying what so ever.  and i don't mind buying gold and silver while the prices are falling because they will all average out in the end.

i was dying to add more physical to my stash and i've been buying every two weeks for several months now.  i ordered some more this morning and will be stopping by a coin shop on my way home this evening.  i'm loving this.  this is pretty exciting!  

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 15:56 | 1702979 eisley79
eisley79's picture

trav - "gold is getting crushed"

ok, care to show the time frame for that lol

it's getting crushed all the way back to a couple weeks ago?  ROFL

yah real......crushed


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:02 | 1701958 fuu
fuu's picture


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:17 | 1702055 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why would I commit suicide?  I'm not weak like you, Trav.  I also haven't lost my job and family and alienated everyone close to me with my genocidal rants.

Indeed, why would I even be sad, as a buyer of silver, at lower prices?  Especially given that I predicted that something exactly like this would happen months ago, and that things like this would in fact continue to happen until paper silver hit zero on a COMEX collapse.

You are such a failure, Trav, in every possible way.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:20 | 1702077 trav7777
trav7777's picture

actually, no you predicted that silver would be at $60 by "next week"

I still have my job and family too.  And I'll probably be a PM buyer this weekend.  Not silver though; that's a fool's errand.

You've alienated everyone due to your stupidity and getting them to pile into "can't lose" positions like silver

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 19:43 | 1703970 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

comex Let me guess, you were at that rubbish occupate wall street rally, werent you?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:32 | 1701766 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Would it matter if you knew who is selling gold?

I think it's about the fact that gold is being sold off.

What will happen next is this.

big luqidity is going to hit the market. Stocks will surge like never before and gold will drop like a rock.

This whole gold hype must be ended. First it was a hedge against inflation ( So back to the 70's if you'd ask me )

Then it was a safe haven.

Since gold won't be needed as safe haven demand since everybody is going to go back into stocks I guess gold can reach easally the 1200 mark. then sub 1000 and so on.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:57 | 1701827 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

GATA Contributor, Ranting Andy, on the current state of affairs.  Join @ to get more of Andy's Rants.  Plus other contributor's. 



Last Friday, the G-7 group of losers met to REACTIVELY figure out ways to fool the market into believing all was well.  Just two days earlier, the Fed, ECB, BOE, and SNB agreed to an essentially UNLIMITED line of credit to ALL Western banks, but unfortunately the market didn’t buy it, so they put out a DESPERATE, HASTY, and VAGUE communiqué stating the following platitudes:

Central Banks stand ready to provide liquidity to banks as required.

We will take all necessary actions to ensure the resilience of banking systems and financial markets.

In days of yore, when the GREENSPAN AND BERNANKE PUTS were in place, and even during MELTDOWN I three years ago, such a powerful, broad-based statement from TPTB would have moved markets dramatically to the upside.  Remember, we have been taught “DON’T FIGHT THE FED”, and in fact just this summer I was told by a broker that he bases client recommendations on what the Fed is doing, as, in his words, “Bernanke is the most powerful man in the world.”  

But this stance didn’t work AT ALL, with the markets simply treading water Monday and Tuesday, hoping and praying the world’s most powerful man would save the day on Tuesday afternoon at 2:15 PM EST.

Unfortunately, and as I forecasted, he didn’t.  It wouldn’t have mattered what he said, short of a HYPERINFLATIONARY, multi-trillion dollar QE announcement.  ALL WESTERN MONEY-CENTER BANKS ARE BANKRUPT, and the reason their liquidity has dried up is because capital is FLEEING the system into REAL ASSETS like gold and silver, and of course U.S. TREASURIES thanks to QE (remember, the Fed said they will now purchase an additional $400 billion of long-term T-bonds).  What is going on in gold and silver the past two days has NOTHING to do with these trends, it is simply an ALL-OUT PAPER ASSAULT to prevent the END GAME PM EXPLOSION that once and for all destroys confidence in ALL paper currencies. 

The Fed announcement obviously failed to improve sentiment, instigating the worst stock market sell-off since MELTDOWN I.  One can SEE, HEAR, and FEEL the FEAR from market participants, Wall Street, and politicians alike, as the “silver bullets” have all been exhausted.  DESPERATION is front and center, as TPTB are being called on their bluffs, their helplessness, and their stupidity.  As I have noted this past week in several RANTS, ALL that is left now is PRINTING MONEY TO MANIPULATE MARKETS!

The PPT is working overtime to support the stock market market, and the Cartel has broken every rule of financial physics in its maniacal goal of knocking down PMs, but nothing is working.  Jawboning doesn’t work anymore, or “liquidity injections”, or even “all necessary actions” by the G-7, and now that the Fed meeting has passed, the market doesn’t even have any such “positive inflection point events” to hope for.

Sure, the ECB can boost the size of the EFSF, but the Germans already tipped their DESPERATION regarding this matter (could it be Deutschebank’s HUGE exposure to French banks?) when they announced this week that, in a sudden about face from their vehement opposition just a week earlier, they strongly support expanded EFSF powers to essentially bail out anyone, anytime.  And obviously the markets DON’T CARE!

When I have an idea for a new RANT, I send myself an email as a reminder.  As I got ready for bed last night, I sent “G-20” to myself.  I KNEW the Wall Street polyanas would look past the recent OFFICIAL INTERVENTION FAILURES (such as the aforementioned G-7 statement and subsequent actions), focusing on how the G-20 meeting, which starts TODAY (Friday) and goes into the weekend would save the day.

But before I could even turn my computer off, I saw that, in an AMAZING ACT OF DESPERATION, the G-20 had already issued a communiqué, BEFORE THE MEETING EVEN STARTED!  And in it, said essentially the EXACT SAME THINGS as the G-7 communique from last week!

Unfortunately, just a few hours later China and Japan quashed rumors/hopes that they would save the day with blank check bailouts (as if even THEY have that kind of money), so I woke up to see yet another bloodbath in banking shares (and, of course a much worse smash in Precious Metals, which WOULD have been dramatically higher if not for the coordinated attack by the Cartel). 

In fact, silver is now DOWN 20% IN THE PAST 24 HOURS, yet again the WORST PERFORMING ASSET ON EARTH during a financial crisis which SHOULD yield exponential demand for REAL MONEY.  This smash is now officially MORE INTENSE than the SUNDAY NIGHT PAPER SILVER MASSACRE in May, yet another demonstration of TPTB’s DESPERATION to averting the gold and silver MANIA which will, once and for all, END their reign as the world’s elite.

Just 10 minutes until the opening of U.S. markets, where the PPT is once again keeping stock futures down LESS than ANY OTHER MARKET on earth.  Per last night’s RANT, currency market are again going haywire, wreaking havoc on international trade and, thanks to the dollar’s bastardized vacuum of strength, yielding increased inflation overseas which will not take long to manifest itself in additional “Arab Spring” type unrest.


Perhaps the PPT can provide a stay of execution with the untold BILLIONS it plans to COVERTLY inject into the stock market today (I’d bet more printed money will be spent on stock futures than on ANY day in HISTORY), but given the IRREVERSIBLE, ACCELERATING collapse of the Western banking system, I wouldn’t bet heavily on it.  If they can, big deal, the system will just come down next week, or next month, certainly by early 2012 in my view.  But if not, it will represent the GREATEST DEFEAT IN PPT HISTORY, making today, from my jaded eyes, THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY IN STOCK MARKET HISTORY (at least until Monday).  Not to mention, it will dramatically weaken the Cartel’s dominant position over PAPER gold and silver.

To conclude, I believe even my most disbelieving readers, as well as a growing proportion of the population at large, are starting to realize this perfect storm of politician/banker hubris may actually have destroyed the system for good, and once a large enough critical mass believes it, ALL FORMS OF CENTRALLY-PLANNED MANIPULATION will fail, including the PPT, ESF, Gold Cartel, and all bailout mechanisms.

That tsunami may reach our shores MUCH quicker than anyone could have imagined, and when it does, the time to have PROTECTED YOURSELF will have ENDED.


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:47 | 1701842 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Doesn't matter to me one bit. I just keep on buying. Always on 'dips', always commensurate with size of discount. You have to be crazy to be all in PMs without a cash safety net for times like these. You Are positively insane to own no PMs and to snark about the joys of fiat currencies when the past 90 years of history shows you've been wiped out holding them

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:52 | 1701874 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



are you sure you dont want to sell some to me at a discount? I will throw in some nude photo's of myself.. very tastefully done? wink, wink..


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:07 | 1701987 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:54 | 1701887 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

funny -10 votes. shows only how many bag holders are out there.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:35 | 1701778 CoopDeluxe
CoopDeluxe's picture

John Paulson

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:38 | 1701792 Gold Man-Sacks
Gold Man-Sacks's picture

I get irritated, too, when we're just expected to know all the inside jokes.  And, you have other arrogant ZH users making comments like they know, but simply won't to tell you because you're just a rookie, and have to earn your stripes.  But anyway, I'd say "you know who" is usually Goldman Sachs. 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:24 | 1702108 smiler03
smiler03's picture

I also know nothing. My guess was BofA (see, I don't even know the proper letters for it!)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:23 | 1702320 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture


Hi Gold Man-Sacks. 

You get your first "stripe" just for coming to ZH...

/     Just for coming to ZH

//    For your first ZH post.

///  For your first Junk or Red arrow.

///)  1-Year ZH membership anniversary

///)) Earning your first Subscriber


Merit Ribbons awarded for getting first post, making sound arguments, spelling, crediting sources, sense of humor, continuity, providing useful links, donating to or purchasing from ZH, "+1" or green arrows, receiving a direct Reply from TD, and ridiculing Trav777 (just kidding Trav).

Then you get into the Commissioned Officer Ranks...

I-Au   Publishing your first article featured on ZH

I-Ag   Earning image posting priviledges

II      Your personal website is listed/linked on ZH




Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:35 | 1701776 shaxmatist
shaxmatist's picture

The Gold Bubble is popping. Big funds dont want to be the last left holding the bag and are exiting the bubble first.

In a liquidity crisis the most liquid asset is the only safe haven.. gold lovers will soon realise they just sold Manhattan for a pile of shiny bling bling like the american natives.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:03 | 1701967 John Bigboote
John Bigboote's picture

But the Native Americans didn't sell their soul. And i won't either. I am not playing their paper game.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:18 | 1701671 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

It would seem that QE3 is limited to how many bonds the Treasury can issue...

Is it possible that if we have a Lehman type moment in Europe that the Fed's QE3 LSAP might be buying European debt?  They could justify it by saying the US and European markets are connected at the hip and creating financial stability is essential at all costs.


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:03 | 1701959 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 I would not be surprised we know the fed spent 4.5 trillion dollars that violated house banking rules that was accordimg to congressional hearings . Of course you have to do your own math of the hearing from 2007 to 2010. The 4.5 trillion is still missing and probably gone forever. 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:08 | 1701993 EB1
EB1's picture

Aren't too many people watching for Ben to print money and give it to Europe?  I think that would get Ron Paul elected and Bernanke and Geithner prison time. 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:18 | 1701672 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Paulson, baby, you didn't own Gold, you owned $GLD.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:23 | 1701686 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Banking Houses are in a death spiral.  They will fail.  And all the while they give me PM at a price I can afford.  Isn't war grand?

To have a short position, someone either needs to own the security, or needs to be able to locate it; the latter is when we call it a 'naked short'.  There is not enough gold bullion to locate to justify their short positions.  This mean that their shorts are unqualified.  So if the CFTC ever decided to be a properly run government organization (they won't be) then they would regulate the shorts, sanction JPM et al, and nix the shorts.

Yet, just like in life, reality always descends eventually.  There will be a time when traders understand what is happening, and there will be a panic move to get physical.  I don't think this will happen until gold is in the range of $3300-$5k.  Once it does there is no top on gold.  It could go to $10k, it could go to $40k, it may very well take the dollar under and its price be invaluable.

To put this in context, look at oil.  Who bought the SPR release, and why?  JPM did, so they could locate their shorts.  The oil market is better regulated than gold, and so they needed to prove their shorts.  Thus Obama did another favor for the Banking Houses and greenlighted the release; JPM bought the oil and stashed it offshore, and JPM bought their short positions.

Of course, there is a direct way to go after these measures, and that is by buying physical silver.  Silver trades with oil 1:1 on the long term.  Oil trades inversely 1:1 with the dollar on the long term.  Take a position on silver, and you take the most promising short position against the dollar possible.  Shorting the dollar is the final battle, because it is the dollar that holds the world from reclaiming its prosperity.  The dollar backs the Banking Houses; it is their only weapon in the financial war that has destroyed the America our fore fathers built.  The dollar, and the corporations that back it, is exactly why this great country was founded. 

It funds the war machine, and it is the war machine that is Wall Streets prize possession.  Without it, Wall Street has no power over the oil producing States.  The dollar is soaked in the blood of young Americans who have been stricken by poverty and had little options available.  The catch 22 of the dollar has pitted America against itself.

Victory will be had by real monie, because the dollar has no backing and is an amalgamation of creative thinking.  Alchemy took hold of money after the philosopher's stone failed.  The dollar has no intrinsic value; it has no general worth and is merely an IOU.  The dollar is backed by lies.

Silver is real monie.  This real monie has had the same short positions unjustly levied against it.  Since silver is cheap, it is rather easy for us to target.  It is the belly of the beast.

I will be visiting the coin store today, and I will be buying with both hands.  I believe that our best hope to take the Banking Houses down is to take possession of silver.  This because silver is a very industrial commodity and if we squeeze the physical market the price will rise.  Then, when the price rises due to supply constraints, JPM's shorts will crush their balance sheet- this has already been happening over the course of the last year and a half, since we started our movement.  So please, join me, take down the Banking Houses, take back your monie and wealth, and take back your freedom!


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:25 | 1701717 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Bullionvault announsement this afternoon:

As you will know, on the BullionVault Order Board we only sell physical bullion which we own in the vault.

After exceptionally high demand, our stock of silver in the London vault is running low. We have further substantial deliveries scheduled for Monday - 26 September 2011.

Please be aware that in this situation offer prices can be unusually high as some sellers may seek materially higher margins than we ordinarily do.


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:36 | 1701782 Living_Stone
Living_Stone's picture

Nice tactic.  Sounds a lot like the Going Out of Business Sale Abda Goreshi had at The Magic Carpet, his rug store, last week and the week before that and the week before that and the week before that ...

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:40 | 1701801 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

That is what it sounds like, but a little price separation would be nice if it actually happened.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:40 | 1701803 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Silver's demand is high and it has been flying off of the shelves for a few years now.  I am not sure what the market for rugs looks like.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:18 | 1702058 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

just found 25 oz on craigslist with an ask price of 1600 bucks

thats 64 an oz.

difference between physical and paper market

offered 40(which i would not have paid) and he told me to get bent

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:53 | 1701880 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture

No, I suspect they are unwilling to sell inventory at $2 over current spot when they are holding $36-42 silver, so rather than saying "if we sell to you we lose our ass, so we aren't," they're saying, "we're out of available silver. When the price goes up, what's available will increase as well." That's the part about the wide offers.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:44 | 1701823 seek
seek's picture

Very interesting. I also saw a news report that got "disappeared' relating to COMEX expecting an inventory decline as sales with intent of delivery were higher.

I have little doubt this sell-off is liquidity driven, to be followed by a re-launch to highs.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:04 | 1701971 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

Great post Mr Lennon Hendrix. I'm already 50% over my target in silver. I'm now waiting for Ag to go down more. Funny thing: the physical doesn't go down as much as paper. I need more correction:P Also, don't forget food.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:10 | 1702018 EB1
EB1's picture

SLV to 30.32 as I speak.  GLD is dropping like a rock too over the last 10 minutes. 

Maybe this is the Paulson liquidation I was waiting for?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:47 | 1701844 WSP
WSP's picture

DaBernank, I am sure you are correct; however, does any of it really matter?  Let’s look at what we know:

1)  The United States financial system is the most corrupt in the history mankind.  The rule of law only applies to the "little" people that do not have connections in the oligarch of the corrupt elite.  

2)  There are no safe places save/invest your money.  ANYTHING you do that is not what the corrupt Fed and bankers want will be slapped down --- witness how easily they can take down real money (gold, silver).   Moreover, all investments are looted on a rolling basis.  The arrogant/ignorant among us will say that you just have to be smarter than the corruption, but that is really not possible.  Sure, you can get lucky and mistake that for genius, but in the end unless you are well connected, you will be looted in the end.

3)  The United States used to be a bastion of the rule of law mixed in with some collective desire for the country to be great together.  Now, the icons we celebrate are people who use lies, deception, corruption, etc., as their primary means of obtaining wealth (e.g. Warren Buffet).   Mix in a corrupt media who celebrates the crimes these criminals commit and there really is not much the little guy can do except helplessly sit back and watch.

4)  The United States will print, print, and print, and there is nothing anyone do about it.  If another country challenges the crimes, they are swiftly eliminated (e.g. Iraq, Libya, etc).   Most countries are scared of the United States not because of our moral code (which is rotten to the core), but rather, because to challenge the United States on honest money, humanitarian, etc., will be met with more greed, violence, and death.

5)  The citizens of the United States are dumbed down.  Most don’t understand that the U.S. is a fascist empire and the average citizen is nothing more than a modern day serf.   The major networks use propaganda to distract citizens from the real issues, while the dishonest university system brainwashes the population into believing they can make a difference when in reality that door was closed a long time ago.

In the end, there really is nothing any of us can do about it.  Those of you that say buy real money like Silver and Gold do not understand how corrupt the government is.  They will do anything to preserve their printing presses so that they can continue looting the labor and spirit of the citizens.  They will send your kids off to foreign lands to loot treasure and resources, and have no problem with getting them killed so that they can increase their power and control.  

The current republican “debates” are nothing more than dog and pony shows to make the citizenry think they have a voice in the future---YOU DON’T.   Sadly, most people will never understand this and will continue to allow the establishment to loot their labor and rights.  In the defense of the sheeple, I have to admit that what do you expect them to do?  We live in the most corrupt “country” in the history of mankind, and there really is nothing we can do about it. 

Yes, dark days are head, but any of you that think that preparing for it are sadly mistaken and grossly underestimate just how corrupt and evil the power that control the United States are.  Yes, sometime in the future, whether it is 100 years from now or 1000 years from now, people will look back and say that the United States was truly the most corrupt country in the history of mankind and likely ever to inhabit the earth.  But that changes nothing for our current situation---nothing at all---and there really is nothing any of us can do about it-----you cannot even opt out anymore.  Technology has completely eliminated any opportunity that we have had in the past to make things right.   Between the corrupt elite and their ignorant “enforcers”, they control the resources and they get to decide---PERIOD!

The bottom line is those of you buying real assets like Gold, Silver, etc., are going to be sadly disappointed.  Whether it is through taxation, confiscation, or made illegal, the corrupt powers are not going to let you “drop out” of their corrupt fiat Ponzi scheme.   Yes, if you invest in paper assets they will loot those,  but any of you thinking that real assets protect you from the corruption are going to be very disappointed because you are not appreciating just how corrupt and evil the system has become.    One way or another, they will screw each and every one of you.  It might not be today, next week, or next year, but sooner or later they will because that is just “what they do”!

Moral of the story?  Does it reallly matter whether you own fiat $GLD or physical Gold?  Really? 


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:34 | 1702225 passwordis
passwordis's picture

"Moral of the story?  Does it reallly matter whether you own fiat $GLD or physical Gold?  Really"


Ask that question to someone who has been buying physical for the last 10 years and experienced a 600%-1000% rate of return.    Does it really matter?  Ahh  Yea!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 16:36 | 1703166 WSP
WSP's picture

Okay, I guess I deserved that; however, if you think about it, yes, you might be up 600-1000% if you bought at the right time, but my point that the whole system is a rigged casino stands. Look at it this way.  If you bought back in the 1970s you would have just kept up with inflation (maybe).

My main point should have been that in order to try and preserve some of your labor (money) you have to buy real metals which the government hates.  Anyone that has studied precious metals know that they are the arch enemy of the fiat ponzi scheme (currency dollars).  So, you buy precious metals to try and preserve your purchasing power, but when you sell, if you have gains, you have to pay taxes on those gains.  By the time you take out taxes and inflation what do you have left?  In most cases, losses.  Not always true, and certainly if you play the game and buy and sell at the right time you can definitely make currency.

But let me ask you this?  Why should people who don't want to follow the markets 24 hours a day have to "fight" to try and preserve their accumlated savings (via their labor)?  If they hold currency, they get looted by inflation.  If they invest it in stocks, they usually get looted via share debasement (executive compensation, printing of stock options, fraud, corruption, etc).   If they buy real money (precious metals), they then have to pay taxes on any inflation gains which over time that is all precious metals and most investments provide is inflation gains. 

Why should the average person have to work so hard and fight so hard to preserve the value of his labor?  I understand if you want o make money in the markets that you have to work hard and most over time do not make money (except for gains from inflation).  

Something to think about!  I hate it when people tell me their portfolio is up x amount and then I ask them to take out inflation.  Why should we have to work so hard to preserve the money we have already made?  Doesn't make sense unless you consider that it the way it is designed so that the financial industry and government can continue to looting of your money even after you have given your time, sweat, and paid your taxes.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:51 | 1702347 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Moral of the story?

WSP = Windbag Spouting Poop

 a.k.a. bleeding heart troll

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 16:42 | 1703195 WSP
WSP's picture

I am sorry that you do not understand how the system is rigged and what is really going on.  I hope your attempts at insulting me provides you the energy to continue living a life of ignorance while the banking cabal continues to loot your savings via taxes, inflation, and corruption.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 16:31 | 1703148 Diplodicus Rex
Diplodicus Rex's picture

So you have correctly identified that the gobermint and its cronies are very, very corrupt and yet you advocate ...nothing.

Ok, I get it.....

You are a Troll and I claim my £10.

Please pay into my Paypal Gold account.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 16:40 | 1703186 WSP
WSP's picture

One need only be engaged and watch what goes on day to day to realize that there is nothing we can do.   Add in to that mix the fact that the majority of the population are ignorant, the media will always protect its masters, and how on earth can you possibly fix the system? 

It is human nature to be optimistic, however, it gets tiring to hear people say they are going to vote for change when we all know that the elections are rigged anyway----the bankers control government and that is not going to change.

Call me an idiot troll if you wish----it doesn't change the reality of the situation one iota!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 17:12 | 1703403 Diplodicus Rex
Diplodicus Rex's picture

Sorry, but I don't give in that easily. I'm in the UK so guns and ammo is not a viable option. However the rest is. I have fuel (3 forms, gas, wood, kerosene) in large quantities, food, source of power, water.  I don't vote because I learned, particularly over the last 3 years or so, thanks to ZH, that is a rigged game and there are no 'two sides' as presented. There's no left and right, red and blue, labour and conservatives. There's the banksters and politicians in one corner and the rest of us in the other.


I didn't call you an idiot. You did that yourself. However, if you have taken in all of the available data, the same data I have available and decided to lie prostrate whilst the banksters do to you whatever takes their fancy then that is your choice. I just don't happen to agree with your logic.


"how on earth can you possibly fix the system?"

Luckily, I don't have to 'fix' the system, nor do I want to. Good old fashioned Maths is going to do that for me. Ponzis always fail, period. All I have to do is survive the short term. My brain and the use of my hands will see me through the rest.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:19 | 1701674 Ese Pinche
Ese Pinche's picture

Bubble Bitchez

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:19 | 1701679 fuu
fuu's picture

"We suspect the continuing selloff in Gold and Silver is due to the ever louder liquidation/redemption rumors at you-know-who."


Robotrader's hedge fund?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:22 | 1701687 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea we're screwed, so surely that means the central banksters shall save us! Rally ON!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:21 | 1701689 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

is Paulson going to actually lose it all ????

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:21 | 1701690 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

Are we staying short or going back to cash?  Don't want to be a pig but.......

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:22 | 1701694 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

This is getting exceedingly messy. PMs are becoming bargains, again; esp. silver. 


Hopiumouts since the underlying fiat 1's and 0's that are "bailing" the banks are becming less than fiat. 


What a mess!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:22 | 1701701 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

GAME OVER. 29...28...27...INSERT $1 Trillion to Continue...25...24...23...INSERT $1 Trillion to Continue...21...20...19...

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:23 | 1701702 POpatriot
POpatriot's picture

Can no one else read a chart?  You could almost draw a perfectly straight line to 159-160.  Gold is going up at a remarkably consistent rate just look at the chart.  It went up way too fast recently when looking at its historical pattern. 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:36 | 1701781 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Double top bitchezzzzz with a chart that ended it's rising trend. Good uck you bagholders. told you weeks before. and this is just the fucking beginning.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:03 | 1701941 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

HB, you're so right I warned people about gold for years and nobody listens to me.

Robot warned them too, he told them not to buy gold when it was 700 because it was in a bubble, but nobody listened to him either

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:57 | 1702732 POpatriot
POpatriot's picture

Double top...haha yeah right.  Its just getting back to its normal trend line.  It could go considerably below it looking back at 2008 fiasco and I would recommend backing the truck up if it does but the long term trend is amazingly consistent and steady.  I just wouldn't get caught up in the short term swings.  I honestly would be surprised if it dipped back to $1400 (about 17% below the trend line as it did in 2008) before shooting back up again.  Let's keep things in perspective.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:23 | 1701705 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



I'm still at a loss why somebody big didn't just buy out all the open interest at the COMEX and stand for delivery.

Today we know why.

Major institutions would rather own AAPL, LULU, CMG, LTD, etc. instead of "hard money".

The PM casino is too infected with over-margined, F12-punching wannabes, so big money stays away from that sector.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:29 | 1701741 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Yoga pants, bullion. Yoga pants, bullion. This "thinking" thing that people do is too hard for me!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:30 | 1701753 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I prefer they own NFLX and LULU too. Run it's time for some cliff-diving (korean banker style -> no pool).

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:30 | 1701755 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

"Never go full retard..."

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:31 | 1701756 Zola
Zola's picture

The answer to your question Robot is because many institutionals are idiots. And i speak with experience.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:42 | 1701806 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

In all seriousness you need some help.  Anyone who continuously finds pleasure in the possible pain of others should look within themselves.  Consider expending your energy and talents on more positive aspects in life.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:10 | 1702009 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Zerohedge is a site where a large number of vocal posters are begging for a societal collapse so they can watch the suffering and use their guns on the roving zombies, and you get upset because RT makes a comment that more people with money prefer equities to PMs?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:24 | 1702112 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

There is a distinction between posting about the financial system collapsing and reveling in the pain of others.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:44 | 1701825 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

This boy is still bullish after getting his ass slapped upside down the past few months. Geez. You think ZH's Monday Morning QB would stop typing this nonsense on how great stocks are after this beat down. I guess you if type something out a bunch of times, you start to believe what you write..

Meanwhile, it obviously hasn't dawned to you that big money is in those lame stocks you mentioned because they're a bunch of sheep.. or too lazy to do their homework on analyzing other companies that can bring better returns.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:28 | 1701709 linrom
linrom's picture

At what price did Soros liquidate? Price action in gold does not show any instability yet; all these price declines are small. When you see large std deviations moves on a daily basis, then it'll be time to worry.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:39 | 1701794 hungarianboy
hungarianboy's picture

Sorry but this is the most pathetic thing I've readed here on ZH.

Check the activity in Gold the past 2 months. Professional money exited while the bag holders bought on the hype that gold will go to $2000. haha bag holders will have to wait for years now when the next cycle starts again.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:48 | 1701853 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

$2,000? What about all the articles about gold to $20,000?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 19:49 | 1703990 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture


I vaguely remember you pumping silver and gold like a teen does with their right hand.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:51 | 1701863 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

WOW, nobody even gives as much as a  thumbs down to the trolls anymore, although Robo still gets some

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 14:03 | 1702436 seek
seek's picture

Um, no. This is a liquidity sell-off at the early stage of a crisis. As we saw in 2008, in the early stages there was a ~15% sell, off, followed by a ~30% increase as the reality sunk in.

We're not going to wake up tomorrow, next month, or next year to the sovereigns suddenly becoming responsible with respect to debt. Until they do, every other currency is going to dilute itself compared to gold.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:24 | 1701710 monopoly
monopoly's picture

You have to think that there are more than a few hedge funds that are liquidating the one asset that is real and has had a magnificent run so far.

What else is there to sell now.... NFLX?

I think Robot really liked that one.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:24 | 1701712 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

Paulson was at the top of the WORLD.....and now.....holy moly.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:24 | 1701714 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

this is postleh liquifaction chck the gold chart

I know this as regretfully went very long fiat physical  but quickly exited as it began to sink  from the 900 level (and of course watched it some months later plow through 900 and beyond)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:28 | 1701734 sudzee
sudzee's picture

LME buyout smells a bit fishy to me:

Is the PM takedown realated> Did Chavez just get "ucked.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:28 | 1701738 Dog Daze
Dog Daze's picture

so, PM's are going to continue this crash....even get worse....shit

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:44 | 1701824 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Physical gold and silver are on sale today thanks to paper PMs crashing. Nothing else has changed. I'm glad I had dry powder and

was able to get GDX and GDXJ cheap today. I hope I can find a dealer who is willing to sell physical silver at these prices today.


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:50 | 1701859 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 Good news for me to . I will add at 1500 then I will have 3 dimes.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:29 | 1701740 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

How can anyone allow people with no money to buy PM (or anything for that matter) is beyond me.

Naked shorts-long should be banned.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:48 | 1701849 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

naked longs?  

good one

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:29 | 1701743 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Rumors on Euro TALF last Friday, Euro TARP this Friday, and Next Friday we will get EURO DRACHMA?

Almost every EU finance minister denies that thier countries banks need ANY capital. Let alone bailout capital.

How the hell are 17 in denial countries going to come up with ONE timely bank bailout fund?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:29 | 1701744 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The question is do I buy more silver now or wait and see if it breaks $30.00 as liquidation gets uglier. I think I'll do both.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:42 | 1701808 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Each time PM drops 10%, I add to my positions. This prevents me from buying tops. I bought yesterday. I may buy again to day, but maybe Mon. My purchases will be one third larger than the size of the purchases I made yesterday.

Fundamentally, nothing in the world has changed. They have not solved the debt problem. They have not solved the issue of worthless fiat currency. Stay strong.


Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:37 | 1701785 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Yup, I am waiting till Monday, maybe a real liquidation day and then will buy more silver and gold. Miners, well, lets just wait for the turn.  Europe should be interesting this weekend.

How would you like to be German, and see your country deteriorate because you are bailing out other countries where the only thing you have in common is the Euro. Ugly.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:43 | 1701818 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea kinda like the US, where we have to sit here broke while we rush around bailing out bankrupt foreign countries.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:44 | 1701822 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Moody's kicks dead horse and downgrades 8 Greek banks

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:46 | 1701836 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

would love to hear more about this rumor

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:46 | 1701837 riley martini
riley martini's picture

 SVM overstated earnings 5x article at seeking alpha . All I'm saying is heads up.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:46 | 1701838 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Proves again that paper PMs like $GLD drive up prices. Liquidating lowers them. PMs way overvalued. Prices now getting more real.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:49 | 1701857 Kina
Kina's picture

I wouldn't take any notice of Transvestite7777 or RobbotTransvestite....they both recently got arsed raped by the market and are shitty that gold even if it went down 200 is still a mile in front of them.


All that is happening right now is gold and silver are being gifted to Asia and Russia courtesy of a band of corrupt and treasonous banksters.


Transvestite7777 will one day be eating out of dumpsters and begging on the streets from those who had enough brains to hold some PMs.



Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:50 | 1701860 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture



Today provides additional proof that PM markets are driven by paper, not physical.

Actual buy/sell quotes at most gold bullion dealers is determined by the paper spot price.

Check out the absolute crash in the "Monex Live" silver prices:



Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:54 | 1701892 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Paper covers rock; rock breaks skull -- Delivery.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:52 | 1701870 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Amazing the Spanish banks haven't popped up more as their realestate issues are 3x the US issues...apparently marking to vapor vs. marking down 20% as we did is much more effective in not having to deal with the issue...

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:53 | 1701878 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

ZH Gold Sentiment Changing? Well Then, Time To BackUp The Truck!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:53 | 1701879 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

I said many times before: the European banking sector will be saved, at any cost. You see: a run into French banking stocks today (so not for taking money) on the slightest ECB/G20-rumor. Easy as that. No crisis, no collapse, no Armageddon. Boring, isn't it?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:53 | 1701882 Kina
Kina's picture

The actual genuine price of gold and silver is what JPM pay in premium to make people not demand delivery, it isn't their paper shorts.


How fcuking high and quick would gold and silver go if JPM had to deliver everything it has been selling??


You think gold has been over  priced??? Gold and Silver have had their 'prices' continually surpressed for a decade. Todays price is probably a fraction of what it would have gone to if in a free fair market the last decade.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:11 | 1701901 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

CME future settlement is physical, so technically, at the moment, it's not paper (until the moment all longs demand delivery, of course).  as long as there's no run on COMEX, there can't be too much divergence at any bullion dealers, otherwise people would arb it.  if there is divergence from spot, it's mainly transport costs and dealer's 'credibility discount'

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 12:55 | 1701908 samlowrey
samlowrey's picture

That fourth graph kinda looks like the good ol' USA!

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:02 | 1701955 sustain05
sustain05's picture

We look forward to many more comments by Lennon Hendrix. He addresses matters that few dare to speak of, especially the connection between the Banking Houses and the War Machine. I could have wept over the bitter truth he stated, " The dollar is soaked in the blood of young Americans who have been stricken by poverty and had little options available." What can we really do to halt this injustice ?

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 23:19 | 1704376 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

What he had to say was nothing more than the truth. Courageous.

In this current poisoned and dangerous system, just the act of telling the truth has become rebellious!

The more power to him.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:15 | 1702038 EB1
EB1's picture

Wow this looks like capitulation, at least short term.  SLV under 30. 

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:21 | 1702086 EB1
EB1's picture

Bought some SLV.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 13:46 | 1702313 walküre
walküre's picture

Here's my rant for the day.

Goes like this.

Fucking CENTRAL BANKERS stay the FUCK out of the markets, stay the FUCK out of exchange rates and let the markets FIND their own FUCKING PRICES on every product.

Ben, you fucked the markets for the last 3 years with your little POMO exercise. You drove everyone into the rigged game known as the stock market, you've generously supplied massive liquidity to the banks which have done FUCK ALL with the money and now you've done the only sensible thing, you've pulled the rug. Sorta like saying "Thanks for playing y'all.. better luck next time". The bankster cronies were made whole and the rest of the people are starving even more! Now keep your fucking hands off the markets, don't touch the rates and let the markets sort themselves out for good. The liquidity that's sloshing around chasing yields will eventually move downstream into the system and into the hands of the starving businesses and people. Businesses that are not expanding because the yield they're offering in their business plans are not high enough. What a fucking joke. People are not getting loans because their credit has been shot. Guess what, Ben. The nation's credit rating is shot and most banks are off the charts broke. Enough is enough! This is the stuff REVOLUTIONS were made off! Wars started over less than the crap the banking cabal is pulling right now!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!