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"The European Financial System Is Finished" In Quotes

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When it comes to European bureaucrats, the easiest way to determine if they are lying is whether or not their mouths are open. Yet there are those rare occasions in which even the most hardened of liars let one slip. The Economic Collapse, always the master of compiling impactful bulletins, has prepared a list of just such "slip" quotes that "are absolutely shocking.  In Europe they openly admit that the financial system is dying, that the euro is in danger of not surviving and that the EU does not work in its present form." In other words, ignore the ceaseless headlines of promises that all shall be well. Because it won't. Here is all you need to know about the imminent end of the Eurozone, straight from the horses' mouths.

From the Economic Collapse:

The following are 20 quotes from European leaders that prove that they know that the financial system in Europe is doomed.... 

 

#1 Polish finance minister Jacek Rostowski: "European elites, including German elites, must decide if they want the euro to survive - even at a high price - or not. If not, we should prepare for a controlled dismantling of the currency zone." 

 

#2 Stephane Deo, Paul Donovan, and Larry Hatheway of Swiss banking giant UBS: "Under the current structure and with the current membership, the euro does not work. Either the current structure will have to change, or the current membership will have to change." 

 

#3 EU President Herman Van Rompuy: "The euro has never had the infrastructure that it requires." 

 

#4 German President Christian Wulff: "I regard the huge buy-up of bonds of individual states by the ECB as legally and politically questionable. Article 123 of the Treaty on the EU’s workings prohibits the ECB from directly purchasing debt instruments, in order to safeguard the central bank’s independence" 

 

#5 Deutsche Bank CEO Josef Ackerman: "It is an open secret that numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels." 

 

#6 ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet: "We are experiencing very demanding times" 

 

#7 International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde: "Developments this summer have indicated we are in a dangerous new phase" 

 

#8 Prince Hermann Otto zu Solms-Hohensolms-Lich, the Bundestag's Deputy President: "We must consider whether it would not be better for the currency union and for Greece itself to go for debt restructuring and an exit from the euro" 

 

#9 Alastair Newton, a strategist for Nomura Securities in London: "We believe that we are just about to enter a critical period for the eurozone and that the threat of some sort of break-up between now and year-end is greater than it has been at any time since the start of the crisis" 

 

#10 Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder: "The current crisis makes it relentlessly clear that we cannot have a common currency zone without a common fiscal, economic and social policy" 

 

#11 Bank of England Governor Mervyn King: "Dealing with a banking crisis was difficult enough, but at least there were public-sector balance sheets on to which the problems could be moved. Once you move into sovereign debt, there is no answer; there's no backstop." 

 

#12 George Soros: "We are on the verge of an economic collapse which starts, let's say, in Greece. The financial system remains extremely vulnerable." 

 

#13 German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "The current crisis facing the euro is the biggest test Europe has faced for decades, even since the Treaty of Rome was signed in 1957." 

 

#14 Stephane Deo, Paul Donovan, and Larry Hatheway of Swiss banking giant UBS: "Member states would be economically better off if they had never joined. European monetary union was generally mis-sold to the population of the Europe." 

 

#15 Professor Giacomo Vaciago of Milan's Catholic University: "It's clear that the euro has virtually failed over the last ten years, even if you are not supposed to say that." 

 

#16 EU President Herman Van Rompuy: "We’re in a survival crisis. We all have to work together in order to survive with the euro zone, because if we don’t survive with the euro zone we will not survive with the European Union." 

 

#17 German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "If the euro fails, then Europe fails." 

 

#18 Deutsche Bank CEO Josef Ackerman: "All this reminds one of the autumn of 2008" 

 

#19 International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde: "There has been a clear crisis of confidence that has seriously aggravated the situation. Measures need to be taken to ensure that this vicious circle is broken" 

 

#20 German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "The euro is in danger ... If we don't deal with this danger, then the consequences for us in Europe are incalculable."

 

Most of the individuals quoted above desperately want to save the euro.  They are not going to go down without a fight.  The overwhelming consensus among the political and financial elite in Europe is that increased European integration in Europe is the answer.

 

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Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:19 | 1639782 unky
unky's picture

Who cares when you have a shitload of PMs stacked ^^

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:30 | 1639838 Nate H
Nate H's picture

billions of others...

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:34 | 1639848 unky
unky's picture

No, billions of others obviously dont care. Because if they cared, they would stack PMs and not worry about it.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:35 | 1639859 Medea
Medea's picture

Argumentation at its not finest.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:47 | 1639904 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

i try to convince everyone i know to buy PMs & stock up on necessities (including guns + ammo) and most just look at me like a deer in the headlights and go back to watching cnn and all the other presstitute networks.  i hope ppl wake up.

on a side note - i think we will see some type of false flag terror event very soon to take the sheeples' attention off of govt corruption/economic craziness and focus on some new "threat"

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:49 | 1639913 unky
unky's picture

yeah, maybe on the 10th year anniversary of 9-11.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:18 | 1639989 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Building 7...?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:34 | 1640043 markmotive
markmotive's picture

If you aren't already, don't become an indentured servant to your creditors. Because that's what it could come down to.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2010/09/07/you-are-an-indentured-servant-t...

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:55 | 1640113 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I don't have any debt, but I do have some questions.

What happens to the dollar if Europe coalesces into a policy, fiscal, and monetary union?

What happens to the price of gold, in dollars, if Europe coalesces into a policy, fiscal, and monetary union?

What happens to the price of oil? Will it be repriced in euros?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:20 | 1640203 Nate H
Nate H's picture

"What happens to the dollar if Europe coalesces into a policy, fiscal, and monetary union?"

For those who see the ultimate end game here, that scenario would buy a few years for social/supply chain preparation.

 

"What happens to the price of gold, in dollars, if Europe coalesces into a policy, fiscal, and monetary union?"

That depends partially on whether it is backed by gold or whether it is accompanied by creative rules (and believe me we hominids can be creative) on owning/spending gold/silver.  But barring such rules, gold will go higher, as the only way a Federation can pay the bills is with more guarantees and expansion of government/central bank balance sheets.

"What happens to the price of oil? Will it be repriced in euros?"

Oil will be priced at the marginal barrel, which largely depends on global economic growth. Even if Europe is able to 'Federate', global economic growth is largely over, at least in real terms, if not nominal. Oil, barring some geopolitical situation will go lower in price until depletion rate exceeds ecnomic decline rate sometime in next 3-5 years - though I could easily argue that economic decline rate will exceed oil decline rate and despite passing world peak in production we have $30 oil for a decade.  (I expect many, if not all, to disagree.)

 

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:03 | 1640354 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

"increased European integration in Europe is the answer."

 

What the fuck does that even mean?

 

Americans for America!

 

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:43 | 1640659 spiral_eyes
Wed, 09/07/2011 - 03:14 | 1641189 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Europe experiencing what US experienced end of year 2008.

 

forget gold....short euro banks till the last drop

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:22 | 1640208 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

What happens to the dollar if Europe coalesces into a policy, fiscal, and monetary union?

You mean the same blood-soaked continent that's been at each other's throats for centuries is going to double down on even deeper unification?  That Europe?  Thanks for the laugh.  That's a good one.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:29 | 1640214 caerus
caerus's picture

exactly...what happens if monkeys fly out of my ass?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:40 | 1640278 Left Right Wrong
Left Right Wrong's picture

Depends:

World Bank Development Research Group - "The Impact of Economic Blogs" - David Mckenzi & Berk Øzler. August 2011

http://www.scribd.com/doc/63942456/Wps-5783#fullscreen:on

 

Is no one here as cool as they think?

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:18 | 1640716 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

Seriously?  you link to an "academic paper" from a useless organization (World Bank) about useless bloggers (Krugmann, Mankiw) and their useless effects?   Is this just a lazy dig at ZH'ers or is there some point? 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:18 | 1640717 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

What strength level of Depends will restrain monkeys flying out of ass?

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:41 | 1640895 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

None that I have found....

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:56 | 1640926 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Thanks for asking.  You will certainly need to employ maximum strength ChastiDepends- "Nothing goes in or comes out".

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:41 | 1640282 eureka
eureka's picture

In the EU there will be bank haircuts - and there will be fiscal controls.

EU will prevail. This present article's quotes are rhetoric aimed to produce EU discipline.

US spends more than twice the energy per capita than EU.

US has far worse tade balance and debt than core EU nations.

US has horrible infrastructure, education and income gaps like a banana republic.

US social strucure is crumbling and 2012 GOP victory wil cremate 80% of US'ians with austerity.

US/USD/Empire will collapse - beginning Q1/2012 and culminating in 2013.

Sleep tight, US'ians.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:37 | 1640443 jdelano
jdelano's picture

And you think what--europe will flourish while the u.s. Goes down in flames. Har. When uncle Sam dies his little dog Europe will be buried alongside him.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:00 | 1640519 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

 

Sharia law across the caliphate of Eurabia.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 04:12 | 1641230 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

And Christian law in the US.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:43 | 1640761 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Nobody flourishes. America becomes a Chinese colony.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:44 | 1640901 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

Amerikka might....but I'm confident there are a lot of Americans willing to tell Amerikka....and China....to go fuck themselves.

 

How that works out??.....probably badly....there will be blood.

In the end?

Nothing changes bitchez.

Cheers

 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 05:47 | 1641319 Léonard
Léonard's picture

@jdelano

Europe don't need Uncle Sam. Eurasia is already on its way.

Hey, German people ! It's time to dump the USSA and take delivery of your gold.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:07 | 1641387 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Europe don't need Uncle Sam.

Except for self defense.  What happens to their budgets when the US withdraws all its bases?

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:13 | 1641395 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

That's a wonderful idea.  Take your shitty cars with you too, and sell them to the Chinese instead.  Oh, and we'll withdraw our forces entirely, and let's see how well your economy reacts.  har har

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:28 | 1640615 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

EU core nations....that is why EU will fail. Why would the core nations want to subsidize the lazy lifestyle of Greeks and Italians? They won't.

Different languages, cultures, and thousands of years of hatred and distrust in EU. A bunch of douchebag bankers can't make all of that go away. That is why they are trying to replace the native populations with Arabs, South Asians and Africans. A brave new world of misery for the remaining Europeons.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:52 | 1640678 twotraps
twotraps's picture

That sums it up.  Levels of hatred and distrust we cannot understand in the US.  State rivalry is not the same at the Country level.  Will Germany ever let a few guys in Brussles decide anything of importance?  If you have time, check out the book Paris 1919, its about the Treaty of Versailles and all the normal things that happen when a bunch of countriies get together and are subject to Decision by Committee on important issues.    The main difference today is that Germany is the strongest country!!!!!!!   

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:49 | 1640775 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

An excellent book!  American, ie Wilson, with his high minded ideaology and the French with their need for revenge and money (lots of it), the Brits with their desire for more territory (and oil) and the dumb fuck Italians thinking they deserve more territory too made for one hell of a circus.  We and the rest of the world are still suffering from the consequences.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:53 | 1640777 eureka
eureka's picture

US citizens absolutely hate and despise each other along ethnic and ideological/party lines.

Have you not paid attention to the immigration war, culture war, class war rhetoric?

South hates north, middle hates coasts.

US is built on hatred and competition.

Soon, you will remember the civil war, race riots and all the other ugly scabs on US history as they resurface under austerity, poverty, increased unemployment, ever falling home prices.

Remember my prediction during the next nine months as you witness your empire crumble from within.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:46 | 1640908 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

fail

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:13 | 1641396 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

And yet a black man is president.

You listen to the MSM to much.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:58 | 1640803 Arius
Arius's picture

at the end, we all live in the same World, are people and God's children.

It wouldnt suprise me a bit if we come out of this mess on top as a more unified World....therefore a better place to live in....more productive and easier to live in so to speak...before you jomp...it is a general statement, but sooner or later at some point in time people will live in a unified place....perhaps we might be approaching the end of the line....with all the improvements in technology it is time for politics and the politicos to catch up...

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 04:14 | 1641231 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I dunno, there are more than a few of Satan's kids out there.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:17 | 1640842 eureka
eureka's picture

Reality Check:

1  The once most inter-warring EU countries are now the most tightly co-operating countries.

2  middle easterners were invited into Europe - not to replace non-integrating Europeans, but as guest workers in the 1960s manufacturing boom

3 unlike US'ians, of whom only 12% own a passport and 90% know nothing about the world except what they are told by corporate controlled US TV - Europeans travel & work extensively in each others' countries.

Any US'ian who has not been to Europe should go - or shut up.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:49 | 1641060 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Are you really that stupid or do you really believe the tripe you spew?

 

Besides, all those europeons jetsetting around the world is bad for the environment and causes global warming. They better stop before I call Al Gore

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 04:00 | 1641218 eureka
eureka's picture

What's your analysis, genius? Sound bytes is all you do. Have you been to Europe? Your "knowledge" is trite and old and boring. You are probably a backwoods hegemon living vicariously on US TV narcissism, priding yourself of holding a bit of PMs.

Sharpen your brain - argue why US doesn't collapse next nine months or two years or whatever - with facts, not diatribe plattitudes of inate superiority.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:22 | 1641415 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Eureka, it's a race to the bottom.  Unfortunately, we have far more sheeple here than Europe does, and we do not have the same immigration demographics either.  It will be easier for TPTB to slow our decent for those reasons and more. 

If I were a betting man, I would be all in on Europe winning the race.  This isn't about superiority either.  We're both screwed.  It's time the West got its shit together and stopped fighting itself.  We have a lot of work to do if we expect to survive this and maintain our liberties.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 04:15 | 1641233 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Post the truth and get junk rated, it's the ZH way.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:16 | 1641402 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

They have passports because until recently, passes were required to travel to a neighboring country.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 06:01 | 1641332 Léonard
Léonard's picture

@sun tzu

 That is why they are trying to replace the native populations with Arabs, South Asians and Africans. A brave new world of misery for the remaining Europeons.

Once the Anglo-American empire will collapse, we will be free to kick the Afro-muslims colons out of our continent like we already did 500 years ago.

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:41 | 1640284 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They raid your house. Then tell you only Madagascar monkeys are permitted.

Oh, thats our regime...never mind ;-)

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:52 | 1640315 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

If you cook and eat some monkeys and wash them down with giardia infected water, they will fly out of your ass.  For real.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:54 | 1640789 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Why would you cook them? The brains are properly eaten from a live (but not for long) monkey. I've been told by someone that actually did this that it's a delicacy.

http://www.squidoo.com/MONKEY-BRAIN

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:39 | 1640645 Confucious 222
Confucious 222's picture

What happens if the Eurozone discards mark to market on Megabank REO and other "Investments" like bonds issued by Greece, Spain, Italy and others?

That little ploy worked out well for the criminal cartel here in the good old USA.

Why won't it "save" the Eurozone banks?

Sounds like a deus ex machina about to burst onto the scene

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:28 | 1640734 LK
LK's picture

i would think 11/11/11 is a good candidate.  

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:51 | 1639917 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

Psst..  It's history.  She's telling you something...

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:56 | 1639928 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

And FREEGOLD theory says Euro is the cure for FIAT Dollar? Just goes to show that you can be as clueless as every other Keynesian even if you claim to be a gold bug.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:03 | 1639944 akak
akak's picture

Although there are some apparently highly intelligent proponents here of the FREEGOLD theory, I remain highly skeptical of it, not the least because I see NO reason, EVER, for the existence of the criminal, manipulative and oppressive fraud that is fiat currency.

Under the FREEGOLD scenario, who or what is to stop me from using gold directly as money with Joe, and then Joe with John, and John with Paul, and on and on, until a de facto gold standard has been reestablished?  Why do we need the abomination of fiat currency at all?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:08 | 1639961 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

dont believe anyone just keep stacking

you know under freegold theory that the euro is delinked from the states debt. I have confirmed this although still a little cloudy.

the franc just linked to the euro today...that tells me that the euro is going to be used to price oil

 

don't discount freegold theory

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:15 | 1639978 Shameful
Shameful's picture

If the Euro is delinked from the state debts...well the balance sheet of the ECB is a nightmare made up of PIGS debt, doesn't really make sense does it?  and remember the gold may be in Europe (ignoring the fact it's officially in NYC), but it's on the states balance sheets not the ECBs, so sayeth the ECB anyway.

Golds a good buy, but I'm a little leery to believe some magical tale of gold and fiat marching boldly into the future.  Once a currency no longer is a store of value the velocity must my necessity approach infinity, and we all know what happens when that occurs...KABOOM!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:50 | 1640092 Habspurg
Habspurg's picture

Would someone kindly point me to a concise, scholarly definition of "freegold theory"?

(A bunch of blog and message board posts referring to previous posts ad infinitum does not count.)

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:42 | 1640438 Dick Fitz
Dick Fitz's picture

I've spent months looking at FOFOA and while I can see the shape of freegold, the mechanics are beyond me. That, to me, means it's a pipe dream.

It took me a month or two, of adversarial study intent on debunking, to comprehend the shape of Austrian economics. Once the basic mechanics and fundamental stability of Austrian Econ became apparent, the former mysteries seemed self evident (even though there are deep esoteric issues, and some bigger issues like IP rights that still need to be worked out) while Freegold, even though I am sympathetic, is still a mystery.

The basics, though are this-

A currency (the euro in FOFOAs proposition) will become delinked from national currency, and will float with gold, i.e., it will become a defacto world gold standard. The euro is ALREADY delinked from any nation, and according to the proponents of freegold, the citizens of Europe are already encouraged to keep REAL cash in gold, and only use the euro as a transactional currency. Technically, in some countries you can do that (take euros and buy gold with no tax) but it is far from the norm.

For freegold to work, a bank would have to do the translation from euro to gold in house, in real time, and the law would have to support it. That is FAR from the reality, and will never be real.

Freegold is a nice mental exercise, but until a competing system of gold holding, currency issuing, non-state actors can exist with full legal freedom, it will not happen.

Fiat currency will have to die.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:23 | 1640726 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Gold, Silver & bitcoins is all we need to restart

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:38 | 1640753 ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

Wow - Bitcoins.

Didn't know anybody was still talking about those.

.

.

.

Ain't nobody gonna manufacture MY opinion !!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:37 | 1640751 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Gold and silver are already money.  Try this:  go to a coin store, with a roosevelt dime and say you want to sell it.  You'll get a few bucks, and no receipt or record will be made.  On your way.

You can do the reverse as well, but it will cost you 5% above the spot price.

Trade FRNs for goods.  Done.

People will do this more and more as the value of dollars goes down and confidence in the currency erodes.  Eventually, the middle man will be removed (merchants will take gold and silver).

Done.

I already do this.  I think of my coin dealer as my "local bank".

Done.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:12 | 1641394 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

They are called Goldman Sachs because at the least minute when you least expect it, the gov confiscates your gold. And they know who has it since you are constantly posting about holdings.

Better figure out how to move it past TSA.

Any ideas, let me know?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:53 | 1640109 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

FreeGold's problem is that it's still designed by bankers who would not give up their printing FIAT privilege, which is why they come up with this bizarre FIAT + gold model as a compromise. It does not work that way b/c the privilege always gets abused and causes disasters. The solution has to be a hard currency w/o all this printing and fractional reserve madness.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:23 | 1640599 Peak Everything
Peak Everything's picture

According to Steve Keen (world's best economist) a hard currency does not solve the core problem we face today which is the use (abuse) of debt to speculate in assets. Use of debt should be reserved for productive investments. To solve this problem you must make asset speculation unattractive.

Hard currencies I think can reduce likelihood of government deficits. While government deficits are a big problem now, they were not the cause of the 2008 crisis. Excess debt used for asset speculation was the cause of the 2008 crisis.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:21 | 1640991 GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

It's all because of fractional reserve banking.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 02:14 | 1641106 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Which was adopted to support a period of (really) fast expansion.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:16 | 1641401 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

I want to move to eastern Europe and claim myself as an American political refugee. That should get me staying power with the locals.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:34 | 1641027 your neighbor
your neighbor's picture

You assume we will have a solution.  If there is a plan that allows them to keep power and keep the make believe trillions currently positioned in worthless sovereign debt, you bet they will use it. So what if a few gold bugs' net worth goes up. These crooks have most of the gold anyways.

The bigger issue is how they will sort out the fractional reserve gold ponzi before gold OFFICIALLY reenters the system. Can they really pretend 100 ounces exist for every 1 real ounce and still be able to renter the system?

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:11 | 1639970 KennyG09
KennyG09's picture

I believe you are correct akak. My understanding of freegold was that by allowing gold to freely float against fiat, people would ultimately come to realize they don't need fiat. This of course to the alternative of abolishing it all at once, which some believe is an "extreme" step.

Also, freegold is right in claiming that returning to a fixed ratio gold standard is making the same mistake as no gold at all. We have to let people CHOOSE what they want to use as money, not have the government dictate what that money will be and how it will come into existence/be handed out.

Just my .02

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:17 | 1639988 akak
akak's picture

I agree with you, Kenny (if I have read you correctly), that abolishing legal tender laws and allowing individuals to decide for themselves what form of money to use would be the ultimate in beneficial monetary reforms --- and that is why we will probably never see such a development, as the bankster elite would literally fight to the death against any such proposal.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:23 | 1640004 KennyG09
KennyG09's picture

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Even if by some miracle it did happen, how quickly would the new generation of banksters take control? 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:55 | 1640116 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

the secret service can and will stop you.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

 

we must wait..............

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:42 | 1640460 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Hey, I out myself as a criminal.  I have ten of those in my safe.

SS can get them after I'm dead, with a good locksmith and an oxyacetalene torch.  If they can find the safe. (not bloody likely).

May they rot in a a ditch.

 

 

SS ..... see what I did there?

 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 09:54 | 1641870 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Here's a nice thing about FreeGold akak. You don't have to understand it, you just need to keep stacking physical. :)

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:01 | 1639942 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

Yes, you are correct.  The most precious metals of them all in the end will be brass, copper and lead.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:37 | 1640053 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

Pernicious Metals and Precious Metals, a perfect yin and yang.

 

‘Copper for the Tinsman clever at his skill,

Silver for the Maiden tipped in the till,

Gold for the Noblesmen sitting in their hall,

Iron, cold Iron calls the Baron from the hill,

Iron, cold Iron is the King of them all.’

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:50 | 1640091 Fake Jim Quinn
Fake Jim Quinn's picture

The most precious of all metals is lead when wrapped in a full metal jacket

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:15 | 1640828 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:12 | 1640834 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Nah, it's plutonium. Wrapped in HE. Your lead hasn't got a chance.

Tungsten makes much better bullets than lead does. It doesn't need a jacket because it very hard. It's melting point is much higher than lead and most other elements so it won't melt in the barrel. And it's much denser than lead (and most other elements), so the sectional density of your bullet can be much greater than lead. Lead is pretty good for something cheap though. But when the bad guys are after you, who wants cheap?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:30 | 1640622 dollarslide
dollarslide's picture

@ Comay Mierda - it's people like you who convinced me to
stock up on GGFA and other necessities. Thanks!

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:28 | 1641005 maxcody
maxcody's picture

My county Deputy tells me to buy more Ammo every time he drops by and tells me

how bad the crime is in another county. 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:28 | 1641006 maxcody
maxcody's picture

My county Deputy tells me to buy more Ammo every time he drops by and tells me

how bad the crime is in another county. 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:28 | 1641008 maxcody
maxcody's picture

My county Deputy tells me to buy more Ammo every time he drops by and tells me

how bad the crime is in another county. 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 01:28 | 1641009 maxcody
maxcody's picture

My county Deputy tells me to buy more Ammo every time he drops by and tells me

how bad the crime is in another county. 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:38 | 1640056 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

My hope is to come out whole, and then build a better world if building can be done at that time.  It is impossible now.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:39 | 1640276 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

My hope is to come out healthy, and then fight against all of them guyz who wish to smoke me.

Skosh' hope, but, well, we'll muddle through.

 - Ned

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:48 | 1640300 Dyler Turden II Esq
Dyler Turden II Esq's picture

Strangely enough, billions of others ARE stacking PMs! Most Indians, a great many Chinese, SE Asians, middle-easterners, Malaysians, and lots more.  Vast numbers of people are "PM stackers". Not much on a per capita basis, but when you start multiplying by BILLIONS, funny things happen.

It is Westerners who are behind the curve in the PM stacking department.

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:12 | 1640560 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Most Indians??

 

You are kidding aren't you? Over a billion of them couldn't afford one gram of gold.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 11:05 | 1642099 Dyler Turden II Esq
Dyler Turden II Esq's picture

No, not kidding. Yes, many of them cannot afford more than a gram. But many of them CAN, especially over decades and lifetimes (which is how it works, there). Indians have been stacking gold forever.  Even dirt-poor Indian peasants. Darn backward hicks don't believe in modern stuff like banks and fiat currencies! We'll teach 'em!  Ha Ha.

Indians own at least 15,000 tons of gold (circa 500 million ounces; circa 15 billion grams), possibly a good deal more.

They've been accumulating forever, and they hang on to it. It  is not for "trading". It is for passing on, intergenerationally.

Current annual import by India is I believe about 4-500 tons, and probably VERY little of it ever leaves. Start multiplying hundreds of tons per year times  decades, (centuries?), and.... 15,000 tons sounds very low, to me.

Remember also that it was not long ago that gold was not $60 a gram; more like $10 a gram.  Even people with $1000 per year incomes can afford $30 (or maybe $100) for gold, if they value and treasure it.

Now, superimpose these facts on a FOFOA-like scenario in which gold goes to megabucks per ounce. Hmmmm. Suddenly, India's 15K tons go from $150 billion (at $300 per ounce) to $30 TRILLION (at $60K per ounce), or a lot more if they actually have 20-30K tons, and/or if it goes to one of FOFOA's higher numbers, like $100K.

Hmmmm.  Interestinger and interestinger.

PS: India's 15K tons (or is it  25K?)  versus the U.S.'s what -- 8K tons, ALLEGEDLY, in Fort Knox?  What if it is tungsten with gold  spray paint?  Can you say "Massive Instantaneous Shift of Global Wealth and Geopolitical Power"?

......................

http://goldpriceindia.org/articles/20-thousand-tons-of-gold-hidden-in-ca...
20 thousand tons of gold hidden in cabinets and houses
Posted on February 24, 2011 by m.elkirsh .... there are somewhere between 15 and 20 thousand tons of gold bullion and jewelry representing 11 percent of the total gold production in the world in the tanks [sic] of Indian banks and safes in homes

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:48 | 1640773 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

I think this is true, but billions is not correct.  There isn't enough metal.  Total historical mined gold is estimated at 5 Billion ounces.  Total above ground silver is 1 Billion ounces.

So each person can get 1/2 a kruggerand, and 1 mercury dime (although they might be able to accumulate another mercury dime every few years or so, after industrial use).

It seems like there are just a few people who own a lot of ounces of these, which means a lot of others don't get theirs.

But yes, I agree that Chinese and Indians have a head start on the stacking.

 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 12:07 | 1642365 Dyler Turden II Esq
Dyler Turden II Esq's picture

There's plenty of metal. Just not plenty enough for everyone to own 10 ounces, or even 2 ounces. When you get down to individual people, think GRAMS, not ounces.

As for silver: "above ground silver" figures do not account for Chinese accumulation over centuries. Silver is to China as gold is to India. China had a silver standard for centuries (only let go of it in the 1930s -- not long ago). Silver is the traditional wealth holding in China, and probably some billions of ounces (possibly even 10s of billions) are retained in jars, drawers, stuffed into walls, etc., etc., and passed-down in the family. Coins and bars, but also jewelry, cups, silverware, etc.

What if a Kiosakian/Dinesian/etc. (silver super-bull) scenario were to eventuate, with silver going to, say, $500 per ounce? Let's say the Chinese have 10 billion ounces -- 6-7 ounces per capita. At $500/ounce, that would be $5 trillion. Not as impressive as the India/gold/fofoa numbers, but nothing to sneeze at. But what if a more Hommelian/tmosleyan/etc. (the FOFOAs of silver) thing were to come down, with silver going to parity with gold -- at, say, $3,000/ounce? Then the Chinese 10 billion ounce stash goes to $30 trillion. More respectable. And it is always possible that the Chinese stash could be a good deal larger than 10 billion ounces.

What if the Chinese, over the centuries, had stashed silver equivalent in current dollars to the dollar value of gold stashed by the Indians? Current value of Indian gold (15K tons, 500 million ounces) is a bit under $1 trillion. Dividing 1 trillion by 40 ($40 silver) yields 25 billion. Have the Chinese accumulated 25 billion ounces of silver? I don't know. but that's under 20 ounces per capita or, say, 100-200 ounces per family (depending on how extended, how defined). That's not all that much, over the last 500-1000 years.

Hmmmm.

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:50 | 1640675 msamour
msamour's picture

Most people are priced out of PM's of any kind. Most people, however smart they are have only been able to work part time for the last 3 years. Don't worry though, after everyone has slimmed down some, and people in your neighbourhood see you all nice and fat, I am certain you will make someone a nice meal...

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:11 | 1640806 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

 

 

 

 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 04:58 | 1641273 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I like the idea of others loosing everything and my PMs going to the moon like all ZHers

Yet I fear the demands of the mob for their governments to please do somthing and the resulting statist hell

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:47 | 1639903 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

Everyone is responsible for their actions or lack of.  I don't feel sorry for most on account of their unwillingness to see through the bullshit for some reason.  I'm speaking from my own experience with people i guess.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:09 | 1639962 bgilliam83
bgilliam83's picture

lmfao WAKE UP!  you gold bugs actually wern't bearish enough!  Things are about to go down the tubes so fast that gold isnt going to mean a god damned thing soon. 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:41 | 1640066 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

@"Who cares when you have a shitload of PMs stacked ^^"

Will you care when your stack gets confiscated?

http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html

 

Our fascist governments and totalitarian propaganda systems are of far greater concern to me than mere wealth, and you are in the same boat as everyone else, as far as all of that is concerned.  Fake aliens will get you in 2012, if other false flag attacks don't get you sooner.  Oh, and your guns will also get confiscated, BTW.  Good luck saying no to the swat teams and other professional killers they will send knocking at your door!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:44 | 1640221 akak
akak's picture

Fearmonger much?

And I bet you would be one of the first in line to meekly surrender to Caesar that which Caesar now suddenly and capriciously claims is his.  But one need not futilely "shoot it out" with the government goons at one's door, either (as if such a scenario is even likely) --- the solution to laughable attempts at confiscation is called hiding contraband and the black market.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:04 | 1640531 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

How about, rather than limit our reactions to the individual level, rather than accepting their crimes and simply doing our best to resist their fascist actions when they affect us personally, we revolt?

 

You can call me a fearmonger if you wish, but I can put 2 and 2 together: 9/11 was a false flag attack, we have been growing towards deeper and deeper fascism, and this type of scenario can only get worse unless we purposefully force a correction.  I think it is willful ignorance to assume that you will be able to blissfully continue on as before, or that you will be successful on your own.  We witness our system successfully victimize people throughout our country and abroad, and most people don't care, even though it's only a matter of time before they get their turn.

 

I'm not bringing up scary things to paralyze people, but to galvanize them to action.  You may be fine with crap like having to do business through the black market (where you are all the more likely to get screwed, with no legal recourse), but I'm not willing to accept a return to feudalism.  I'm fighting this every which way I can (visit my website for details), so don't go assuming crap about me meekly surrending, please.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:34 | 1640631 akak
akak's picture

I'm not willing to accept a return to feudalism.  I'm fighting this every which way I can (visit my website for details), so don't go assuming crap about me meekly surrending, please.

Fair enough, in this instance, although I must admit I was repulsed by your disingenuous, dishonest and malicious attacks on Ron Paul and his political positions and history in another recent thread.

But we must acknowledge that feudalism is EXACTLY that into which we are sliding, even down to the summary confiscation of the assets of those deemed enemies of the emperor, er, state --- we just hygenically call it "asset forfeiture" today.  Oh, and don't forget about the resurgence of state-sponsored torture, and the clamping down on movement across national borders (unless one is an illegal alien coming to work under the table).

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:55 | 1640666 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

You call my critique of RP dishonest, yet you were not able to refute any of my points...  You call me malicious, yet I am only arguing logic, with no emotional attachment whatsoever - in fact I WISH RP was the real deal, but unfortunately I've found many things lacking in him (esp. his callous disregard for 'truth' on the 9/11 question), and I see a repeat of many of the patterns that were present when Obama was first running for president.  I don't see why you feel "repulsed" by my arguments - doesn't that imply a heavy emotional attachment to RP on your part, and hence most likely a difficulty in looking at him objectively?  Don't shoot the messenger just 'cos you don't like his message...

 

In any case, it's nice to see you agree with me on other points :)

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:17 | 1640692 akak
akak's picture

Actually, I was just perusing your blog, and I find relatively little in it (admittedly I just skimmed through it) with which to take issue.  Sometimes, the most heated arguments are between those who are 99% in agreement with each other, but who become enraged over the remaining 1% ("How many angels can dance on the head of a pin", for example).

Regarding Ron Paul, I will admit that I simply did not have the time nor the energy to rebut you point-by-point.  Suffice it to say that, while I am not quite 100% in agreement with him on all issues,  I believe that he is "the real deal" as a true and honest defender of liberty.  Now, whether one believes that he can be elected or not, or whether as president he could in any significant way change the disastrous course of our sinking ship of state, those are legitimate and honest questions indeed.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:31 | 1640740 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Thanks akak.  I hope you'll take some time to check out the section on self-improvement, as I think that's probably the most original, although the 'WhatToDo' part is surely the most important at this stage.  If you have any suggestions or constructive criticisms, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

Given the Diebold vote fraud machines (which surely are in place for the primaries as well), I think that whoever gets picked and whoever ends up 'elected', it will be the NWO's man and no other.  In general, I think it's unfair to leave it all to the RP to fix all on his own (surely JFK is on his mind, if he truly is thinking of fighting), and it's unwise to leave your safety in the hands of another, so no matter how encouraging the news, I will be focused on revolt :)

 

Surely there is no greater libertarian principle than to do things ourselves, rather than count on anyone in our government!

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 02:31 | 1641133 akak
akak's picture

Surely there is no greater libertarian principle than to do things ourselves, rather than count on anyone in our government!

Again, Christophe, I cannot argue with you there.

My point was only that Ron Paul, as a politician, is vastly different from almost all others in Washington DC, and is an honest and valuable spokesman for the liberty movement.  Now, whether there is any chance whatsoever of him making any difference, as a politician,  to the current financial-political situation, I grow increasingly skeptical that he actually can.  I would still vote for him, but I do grow more and more certain that my vote, and voting in general, cannot or will not improve our situation.  Like Hari Seldon in Asimov's book Foundation, I suspect that the vast tide of current events is for all practical purposes immovable, and its course fundamentally unalterable.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 09:17 | 1641700 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Hehe - I agree with you that the odds don't look good, but I hope you will guard yourself from despair or from throwing in the towel.  The harder the task is, the more imaginative and hard working we must be.  If we tell ourselves the task is impossible, then we make it impossible.

 

We have the opportunity, right now, to do many things (like going out every day to talk to random people to spread the truth and break people free of the TV's programming) - things add up.  I am certain we will deeply regret not acting if we simply follow the easy path of going with the flow...

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:25 | 1640852 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:24 | 1640853 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The black market has nothing to do with feudalism, just as fish have nothing to do with bicycles.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:46 | 1640770 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Death is preferable to being someone like you in such circumstances

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 02:40 | 1641147 voshnishki
voshnishki's picture

False.  If you make gold illegal then it would send the FDR's to zero.  Foreign governements no longer trust FDR's.  They seem to be moving to an internatl. standard.  Before it gets too bad they will reshape the system to gain further control. 

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:44 | 1640905 Kelley
Kelley's picture

So Drudge headlines the NYTimes article regarding a fear of a Euro bank failure...I scurries myself over to Kitco to see if gold is going to go up $100.

Instead it sez gold down $50 in minutes.

WTF?!    

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:22 | 1639790 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

The Swiss today handcuffed themselves to Europe in a romantic suicide pact.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:26 | 1639806 SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

The swiss think that drinking a vial of poison to join a dying Romeo will help things?

"Wisely and slow; they stumble that run fast"
- William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, 2.3

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:37 | 1639863 falak pema
falak pema's picture

where's Tybalt in all this suicidal mania? Dead and buried? Not so, as the Capulets and Montagus fight it out in their sterile currency war. 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:28 | 1639807 SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

The swiss think that drinking a vial of poison to join a dying Romeo will help things?

"This day's black fate on more days doth depend:
This but begins the woe others must end."
- William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, 3.1

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:34 | 1639849 caerus
caerus's picture

alas poor euro, i knew him horatio

a currency of infinite jest...

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:45 | 1639896 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

LOOOOL

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:57 | 1639926 akak
akak's picture

.
.
Fiat currency's but a walking shadow (of gold), a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the monetary stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot central banker, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:57 | 1640127 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

lincoln and kennedy got killed for some reasons. perhaps it was because they were pushing competing currencies, the green back and the silver certificate , respectively. so we see the achilles heel of fiat, competing currencies. the constitution says, ..........congress shall coin money...........not the fed..........

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:29 | 1640237 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That is, what is not specifically allowed in this Consitution is specifically denied to the federal government (Amendment X, the last one of the Bill of Rights).

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:29 | 1640240 akak
akak's picture

Actually, Kennedy did nothing whatsoever to promote "competing currencies" --- that is a latter-day urban legend invented out of whole cloth, with no basis in fact at all.  His executive order to CONTINUE the printing of silver certificates was a rote formality demanded by law, and merely a continuation of a US monetary policy stretching back almost 100 years.  I really can't understand how such an absurd notion ever came into existence.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:47 | 1640297 LstrzMnyn
LstrzMnyn's picture

Add to that the "He was going to get us out of Vietnam" hypothesis, which is just as dubious. So why'd they off him? Some folks think that the mob, in bed with the CIA, had it in for him and Rob for going after organized crime. Could be. IDK. Maybe he was just too radical, but he seemed to have been following all the "rules".

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:16 | 1640840 snowball777
snowball777's picture

First, look at the things that changed as a result of LBJ taking the helm, then look at how those decisions affected money changing hands...do this, and you'll find your culprit.

Only the deeply naive think that Jack and Bobby weren't already mobbed up.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:51 | 1640781 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Why because he was perfect.  Simply goal seek from there to determine what he was responsible for.

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:10 | 1640827 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

From what I understand, it was not a "silver certificate" that was created / printed under the Kennedy adminstration...but a RED-SEAL "Treasury note"....which was supposed to be similar to a "green-back" - meaning that the bank note was backed by the full faith and credit of the US taxpayer...and did NOT have any interest payments associated with it...it was "debt-free money"  (or at least that's how I thought the story was)

I always figured this was one of the reasons the guy was killed (and thought it was weird that the last two presidents who tried to print debt-free money were both assassinated) 

Am I wrong here...if so, can somebody please give me some more, REAL information on what the RED-SEAL notes were and how they functioned....

(Oh, and by the way...This "real information" that I refer to does not include random rantings from some dipshit's website)

 

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:49 | 1640470 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

"You have a choice between the natural stability of gold and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government. And with all due respect for those gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, vote for gold."
- Wm S.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:30 | 1640623 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

George Bernard Shaw

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:28 | 1640873 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It was from its mother's womb untimely ripped!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:31 | 1639811 unky
unky's picture

I just imagined I am a swiss citizen and didnt buy Gold during the past few month because I was thinking that Gold  actually stayed flat for me. Then all of a sudden today I see a near 10% increase in Gold price (denominated in swisss francs). I would be sooooo angry at my government+central bank. Or should I be angry at myself because I was to stupid to believe my government wouldnt print money? Well, I should have bought Gold right away. There is no way arround Gold.

The swiss francs has been a save heaven and so many europeans escaped with their money to switzerland because they were thinking that swiss francs is a stable currency. Turns out that it is not the case and people have to find out that switzerlands central bank is no better than that of belarus.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:34 | 1639843 akak
akak's picture

No fiat currency, EVER, has truly been a "safe haven" from the monetary manipulations and crimes of the financial and central banking elite-- precisely the opposite, in fact.  The passengers of a sinking ship might just as well seek the "safety" of a cardboard lifeboat.

Really, does NOBODY fucking study history anymore?  "Fiat currency safe haven" my ass!  Anyone stupid enough to buy such a line fully deserves the butt-raping they will thereby suffer.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:36 | 1639861 unky
unky's picture

I luckily not belong to the group of people who bought the swiss franc when 1€ = 1sf a month ago and now discover that my swiss franc is shit when I want to buy Gold with it.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:41 | 1639880 akak
akak's picture

Don't worry, I am sure beyond all doubt that very soon officials of the SNB will publicly claim that the sudden plunge in the value of the Swiss franc is only "transitory".

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 07:55 | 1641488 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

SNB's goal was to devalue their currency, and that's exactly what they have done.  They will describe it as a "success" instead (success for the banksters, not for the rest of us).

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:07 | 1640362 Justaman
Justaman's picture

Try using the US$ to buy gold.  At least the Swiss had some purchasing power for the last few years.   

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 21:36 | 1640439 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

I try and still succeed -- for how much longer I don't know, though.  
Cost basis < 1400 but soon 1900 will seem cheap.  And PT @ 1850 (less than parity)!  And AG @ 42!  I guess it's all relative.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:01 | 1640143 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Gold was not a safe haven either between 1981 and 2001.

There is no permanent safe way to become or stay rich. One must tend to ones finances and be wise and flexible.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:21 | 1640594 akak
akak's picture

Actually, gold WAS a perfectly safe financial haven between 1981 and 2001, as it always has been; it was merely not a particularly lucrative one.  And it must be emphasized that this was the ONE period in monetary and financial history during which it did not keep in step with the depreciation of fiat currencies --- but official gold price suppression by Western central banks will tend to do that.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 22:33 | 1640630 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

that... and positive real interest rates.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:59 | 1640130 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

in your dream, did you notice you had nice machine guns in your closet with lots of ammo?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:52 | 1640785 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

I had a bunch of gold and swiss francs.  Then one day I realized that there was no guarantee that the swiss wouldn't resort to nonsense, and I sold them (for gold).

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:28 | 1639820 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

No kidding what a fucking dumb move. Sure they'll prop up GDP in the next couple quarters, but they're burning their house to keep warm.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:42 | 1639891 oogs66
oogs66's picture

It probably has something to do with ubs and cs bonus payments. They probably locked in expenses in Swiss and have no profits to convert so government had to bail out their bonus pools

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:57 | 1640124 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It is a great move.

The swiss can now also run deficits without tears...for now.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:43 | 1639889 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Re: handcuffs

It is more like bondage, then romantic affair. The Swiss need to watch their back door.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:25 | 1640016 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Ooooooh - a clockwork chocolate.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 18:44 | 1639893 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

not likely.  The Swiss have more hidden than any but the most recent Cayman Island shills.  They have enough gold to do what they want and surive the destruction around them.  What they did was give their fellow Euro's a warm and fuzzy pretending to die with them if they go,  which everyone knows is a crock.

They just don't want everyone to come and get what their neutral (in anything but money) status has purchased for so long.  Just think about what would happen if someone raided the Swiss?   It would make Iraq look like a picnic.  Every armed force would be on call instantly to protect gold and secrets about who owns it that lies about it.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:17 | 1640190 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

Ha ha ha! ty for the laugh. Swiss army vs a seasoned army? Swiss would go down faster than a cheerleader on football night.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:54 | 1640790 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

I had an advisor who was in the swiss army.  He told me their main activity was putting a large cheese in a canon and firing it off.

Please do not show him what our US 16 year olds are doing in Iraq with their M16s.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 23:54 | 1640792 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

I had an advisor who was in the swiss army.  He told me their main activity was putting a large cheese in a canon and firing it off.

Please do not show him what our US 16 year olds are doing in Iraq with their M16s.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:47 | 1640086 Hurdy Gurdy Man
Hurdy Gurdy Man's picture

wtfml (either "what the fuck my life" or "world trade fund, my lover" - take your pick) prompted Swisserland to couple with Euro is... baffling... porquoi? Porquoi?!?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 19:47 | 1640087 Hurdy Gurdy Man
Hurdy Gurdy Man's picture

wtfml (either "what the fuck my life" or "world trade fund, my lover" - take your pick) prompted Swisserland to couple with Euro is... baffling... porquoi? Porquoi?!?

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 00:43 | 1640900 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Because they're part of Europe.  They can do nothing about that.  They're landlocked.  The EC surrounds them.  The major north-south transport ateries pass through Switzerland.  They are a party  to the Schengen Agreement.  Many of their citizens and workers cross their borders every day.  They buy and sell most of their stuff with the rest of Europe.  It's the result of 60 years of integration with the rest of Europe.  It would be very difficult to go back.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 20:15 | 1640181 ShoeShineBoy
ShoeShineBoy's picture

and i am expecting the idiotic Japanese to do the same with USD, coincidence? 

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