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Europe's Cash-For-Trash LTRO-'Scam' And The Indentured Servitude Of The Citizenry

Tyler Durden's picture


In a must-watch follow-up to his original Punk Economics Lesson, David McWilliams describes how the new bankocracy in Europe will lead to a massive injection of liquidity; blowing bubbles in financial assets while the citizenry is bled dry (ring any recent bells?). The banks again get all the money they need while the average citizen shoulders the burden. Specifically in the case of the Greeks, they are left with the uncertainty of a return to the Drachma or the certainty of decades of indentured servitude. Enter the ECB with their cash-for-trash deal. This is a scam, he proclaims correctly, insolvent banks lending to insolvent governments and we are calling it success? The banks can turn a tidy profit, but the straight-talking Irishmen asks the question every Greek citizen should be asking: "where does the profit come from?" The answer: the average tax-paying European citizen, and it is this that provides the comfort for the Germans to allow the Greeks to default without bringing down every bank in Europe in a contagious cascade of margin calls, un-hypothecation and deleveraging. Critically, the question is not if or when Greece will default but will they be allowed to default enough? The lesson for all is that to stay in the Euro, all European nations have to become more like Germany - which is very different from the community of equal nations that the Europeans signed up for 20 years ago at Maastricht. Don't be fooled that the European debt story is over, it is not. In fact, he finishes - rather ominously, the interesting bit hasn't even started yet.


While austerity is argued not to work, we think it can if countries manage to cut expenses while keeping a balance. We once again remind readers that alas, the balance is out of skew due to 30 years of runaway full-Keynesianism, which leads indeed to the problems that McWilliams so well espouses.




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Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:34 | 2191708 quebecgold
quebecgold's picture

Let’s play!

Let free the Tyler Durden in you!

Tomorrow(02/24) everyone tweets ‘’Greece Defaults’’ on twitter at exactly 10:03 (ET).

It’s time to see how bad the Algos will react to this storm of tweets.

Respond to this message saying you are IN!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:38 | 2191719 quebecgold
quebecgold's picture

Spread the word


Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:45 | 2191736 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

I got a lot of friends in on this, about 20 people

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:48 | 2191739 quebecgold
quebecgold's picture

Nice work,

let's crash the ponzi scheme

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:42 | 2191937 Canada01
Canada01's picture

I'll do it too.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:20 | 2191968 Michael
Michael's picture

If I owned stock in the Federal Reserve, I'd really be seriously thinking about selling my stock right now.

The Fed is stuffed to the rafters with toxic waste and its currency is virtually completely debased.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:07 | 2192011 Michael
Michael's picture

They don't do this anymore, do they?

Smith Barney

Re: The Paper Chase

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:30 | 2192028 Michael
Michael's picture

Without CO2, Nothing Green Would Grow On The Planet.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:21 | 2192100 Michael
Michael's picture

This is nothing short of a Declaration of War by the Ron Paul Crew on the Federal Government.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:06 | 2192123 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 for the reminder that this is all the FED's game since 1933 and then 1971

well done BS propaganda video, hits all the soft spots and of course it leaves the international setting out

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 11:00 | 2192571 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

I'll get my crowd in. 

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:49 | 2191741 ACP
ACP's picture


& Bernanke resigns for health reasons

& LTRO cancelled, moved to 2013

Brainstorm people!

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 23:50 | 2191745 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

If I had a twitter account, I would do it. AWESOME idea!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:13 | 2191779 LowProfile
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 01:27 | 2191880 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Just for shits and grins, I'll do it.

Easy enough to make a throwaway account with a bs hotmail attached to it.  Took about 30 seconds, all told.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:09 | 2192044 alt-shift-x
alt-shift-x's picture

that still doesn´t give you any followers that care about your tweets, anyway for the european folks here as far as i know 10:03 ET means 15:03 CET and 16:03 for mainland europe.

And yes i´m in

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:56 | 2192144 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

RE: "If I had a twitter account, I would do it..."

Well, you could simultaneously email the  words to all of people who are in your list of contacts. It may depend on what email program you use but I think most have a "mail to all" feature.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:17 | 2192200 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

This Punk Economics thing is Keynes contaminated.

(Saving is baaad. The governments must spend etc.)

It does not really mention that the Maastricht Treaty necessarily lead to this crisis.

Beyond the requested debt forgiveness and transfers it doesn't make any remark on how to avoid the same type of crisis happening in the future.

It ignores that the EU(SSR) is not and cannot be a second USA. It blames "the Germans" all the time - ignoring completely that so far "the Germans" have paid for the whole party.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:09 | 2191772 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'm in.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:07 | 2191907 indygo55
indygo55's picture

I'm in too.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:30 | 2191808 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Project Mayhem lives!!!!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 01:26 | 2191879 malalingua
malalingua's picture

I'm in! Have over 1500 followers. Love to use social networking to take down the system. You should tweet this out tonight as well. Are you creating hash tag: #GreeceDefaults or just putting Greece Defaults?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 01:52 | 2191894 PR Guy
PR Guy's picture

That is really the wickedest thing I've heard in ages. I'm in. I just need to figure out what 10.03 ET translates to in Dublin Ireland time. Probably a crock of gold at the end of the Leprechaun's rainbow... which sounds a bit like the bs they gave the Greek people about this latest deal.

As David on this video is a countryman of mine I suppose I had better watch it.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:42 | 2192180 Ian56
Ian56's picture

I am IN

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:36 | 2192225 Irish Rascal
Irish Rascal's picture

Great Idea

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:09 | 2191775 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Got matches?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:41 | 2191821 foofoojin
foofoojin's picture

Are you making a historical reference to the Locofocos or are you just making a reference to matches?

Ralph Waldo Emerson said of the Locofocos: “The new race is stiff, heady, and rebellious; they are fanatics in freedom; they hate tolls, taxes, turnpikes, banks, hierarchies, governors, yea, almost laws.”

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:31 | 2191799 chump666
chump666's picture

G20 jerkoff on the weekend, LTRO major jerk off on the 29th, market will rally into ranges, Dow could sit on the 13000 for a little bit (into early March).  Oil most likely will hit the 110...then Europe will burn (literally) .

All before/or after the Ides of March.  Europe will be a riot zone.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:34 | 2191815 chump666
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:55 | 2192143 Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

This has to be the biggest pump and dump ever! Have people forgotten about the CDS trigger? I am beyond words..

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:27 | 2191803 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

This is so fucking depressing. I'm exhausted.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:28 | 2191804 nah
nah's picture

until the cops do their job it is still just violence

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:32 | 2191811 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Super awesome. Lemmy plays a Rick BTW. (Methinks that's Motorhead singing Run Boy Run).  Well let's review, we thought greece was only getting 19% of the bailout money- BANKSTERZ getting 81%- but now we hear Greeks are getting LESS THAN ZERO  , are they asleep? Who's in charge over there? Total nonsense, a wonderful Heist movie in the making, Charles Furguson will never run out of topics for his next movie.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:33 | 2191812 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

This, David McWilliams, is one fine artist, with alot going on upstairs! 

fantastic :-))

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:34 | 2191814 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

Of course austerity works. It's nonsense to believe that excess government spending is the answer to reducing debts. When people say austerity does not work they are referring to a contracting GDP number and lower average standard of living. That's a sign it IS working.

And that is the problem with debt. Having to pay it back is hell.

Default might be more fun, but who likes waking up to bank holidays because the bank's assets just vanished?

And so the ECB and the Fed will take trash for cash and spin all sorts of other excuses to print. Prices on everything will rise. Speculators will be blamed. Price controls will be tried for a while. But ultimately we will all be poorer unless we were smart enough to transfer our wealth into real assets NOW.

"Gold is money. Everything else is credit." - JP Morgan

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:37 | 2191818 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

"Pakistan Nukes India"   

would be sure to crash corporate stock prices with no more cheap offshore staff

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:39 | 2191823 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

tyler, you seen this? - $15,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOO FRAUD EXPOSED in UK House of Lords

(paste)  My Lords, it starts in April and May of 2009, with the
alleged transfer to the United Kingdom, to HSBC of a sum of 5 trillion
dollars and seven days later, in comes another 5 trillion dollars to
HSBC, and then 3 weeks later another 5 trillion. 5 trillion in each
case. Sorry. A total of 15 trillion dollars is alleged to have been
passed into the hands of HSBC for onward transit to the Royal Bank of
Scotland and we need to look at where this came from and what the
history of this money is. And I have been trying to sort out the
sequence by which this money has been created and from where it has come
from for a long time.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 01:59 | 2191901 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

He should just upload his 104-megabyte memory thumb to Wikileaks and we will figure it out.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:25 | 2191923 FinkPloyd
FinkPloyd's picture

The Fed seems to be aware of the scam since 2007:

Scam Involving Yohannes Riyadi and/or Wilfredo Saurin

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York has been contacted by several brokers and financial institutions worldwide inquiring about the validity of this fraudulent account documentation, which is being offered as collateral for lines of credit or other types of asset based financing. The fraudulent scheme includes multiple documents which purport to have the signatures of various Federal Reserve officials, including Chairman Ben Bernanke.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:34 | 2191930 FinkPloyd
FinkPloyd's picture

Btw the above link also has a nice set of images for fraudulent bond/note , including boxes for such . Pics reminds of all the ??fake?? bond stories like this:

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:51 | 2191944 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Curiously no mainstream news organization has reported or commentated on this speech, although the alternative news websites and blog-o-sphere are awash with speculations  Wikipedia

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:07 | 2193898 putaipan
putaipan's picture

here's my take- if these kind of bonds are real ....
they represent the deeeep economics of world war 2. they are traded and recognized only at central queens piggy bank levels.
german black gold bonds seem to have been stolen from wanta/reagan/vatican attacks on soviet union by the bush cabal
     and represent what the nesara dreamers were on about. exposing this is the best reason for wellstone i've read.
the japanese/philipines versions are for chinese gold. due date sept.10 01. and are refrenced in the ny lawsuit and blackhieth.
- i think they are the old paper reresentation of "pigments of monetary imaginations'"  of the past surfacing to cover
today's digital imaginary money- quadrillions of world wide derivitive debt. ie- to make the unreal- real.
just my two trillion cents worth. have fun.
-the 'other spiritual white boy'. written by a weird looking lady with a banking backgound that writes fictional accounts of simular stuff summery of the fulford
referenced law suit filed in ny.
these two are more from the philipines/japanese style beare bonds
if you missed this guy, son of one of the founders of the fed blaming treasury dept. for this kind of stuff your link, thnx

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 00:55 | 2191844 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 11:05 | 2192594 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

May be a bit disgusting, but wouldn't piles of shit have been more appropriate? As usual another masterpiece by WB7. thanks for all you do. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 01:20 | 2191870 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

" interesting bits"  other than Banzai's disturbing bits above what is this guy talking about? Do the Greek men put their hands between their legs and find some "interesting bits" or do the Irish or Portuguese finds their nads first.. Nahh, they will all use the interesting bits of wood to box up the AU and ship it to frau merkel, whinnny....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:37 | 2191932 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Sad but most likely true, what ever happend to "this is Sparta" or "so many arrows as to block out the sun, excellent then we shall do battle in the shade"

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 02:05 | 2191906 xela2200
xela2200's picture

I want a whiteboard NOW.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:10 | 2191964 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

I don't understand why all the articles on this site are going on as if 'citizens shouldering the burden' is some kind of satanic state of affairs... It's been happening since the first humans banded together into family groups. Boss man makes the rules and bitch boys follow them, ad nauseum. If you don't want to be a bitch boy then get an education and take responsibility for your own life.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:59 | 2192009 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Awesome recipe.

Get an education. Ah, if people of ancient times had known that, today's will be different...

It is not like work consumes resources and getting an education does not solve that, only makes it worse.

But hey, it is well known, US citizens are problem solvers.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:38 | 2192114 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

I never specified what education to get... but I'll let you try to work that one out for yourself. Wouldn't want to spoil the suspense for you.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:11 | 2191965 upb
upb's picture

who cares!!! PE = QE!!!  thats all that matters!!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:46 | 2192000 Olympia
Olympia's picture

In 1991, when George Bush senior attacked Iraq and tried to establish the New World Order, has actually provoked a World War. A war the human kind has never seen before; a world war that may not have had the provocative blood-letting of the previous wars, nevertheless its consequences were equally bad for all the peoples. A financial world war, the consequences of which may not have been dead or amputated men and ruins, but in any case they were equally disastrous for both the peoples and the environment.



Fri, 02/24/2012 - 03:56 | 2192007 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

insolvent banks lending to insolvent governments and we are calling it success?


Who is that we?

Banks and governments? Sure, they can call that a success.

US citizens? Their passion of the group makes them so tightly associated to banks and governments they can call it success through proxy.

People whose wealth is thrown at the endless pit of US citizens' insolvency, not so much. It is a big failure for them as they are sacrificed on the altar of US citizens'comfort.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:14 | 2192019 non_anon
non_anon's picture

promises are meant to be broken

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:14 | 2192020 q99x2
q99x2's picture

It's all Greek Economics to me.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:17 | 2192022 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Can US citizens call it something else than success?

Can US citizens admit they are at the root of the current world situation, and not an unfamed Zimbabwean mad thinker or a worshipper of Voodoo?

Entertain me.

Space conquest program was supposed to be the solution to keep the expansion Ponzi triggered on 1776, July,4th going.
US citizens never admitted the grand fiasco, even though it is the fiasco that destroyed their hope of keeping the Ponzi unknown.
They redressed it as a great victory of the US Eagle over the Soviet Bear. Nice. Wooo, so relieving.

The few only times US citizens are ready to declare their own failures is when they do not kill people fast enough, when they are not enough efficient in killing people.

Other than that, well, it is always successes with US citizens or self criticized successes.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:35 | 2192031 ACP
ACP's picture

I'll entertain you. If you replace the words "US Citizen" with a racial epithet, you sound like plain vanilla moron:


Can NIGGERS admit they are at the root of the current world situation, and not an unfamed Zimbabwean mad thinker or a worshipper of Voodoo?

Entertain me.

Space conquest program was supposed to be the solution to keep the expansion Ponzi triggered on 1776, July,4th going.
NIGGERS never admitted the grand fiasco, even though it is the fiasco that destroyed their hope of keeping the Ponzi unknown.
They redressed it as a great victory of the US Eagle over the Soviet Bear. Nice. Wooo, so relieving.

The few only times NIGGERS are ready to declare their own failures is when they do not kill people fast enough, when they are not enough efficient in killing people.

Other than that, well, it is always successes with NIGGERS or self criticized successes.


Or how about this?

Can JEWS admit they are at the root of the current world situation, and not an unfamed Zimbabwean mad thinker or a worshipper of Voodoo?

Entertain me.

Space conquest program was supposed to be the solution to keep the expansion Ponzi triggered on 1776, July,4th going.
JEWS never admitted the grand fiasco, even though it is the fiasco that destroyed their hope of keeping the Ponzi unknown.
They redressed it as a great victory of the US Eagle over the Soviet Bear. Nice. Wooo, so relieving.

The few only times JEWS are ready to declare their own failures is when they do not kill people fast enough, when they are not enough efficient in killing people.

Other than that, well, it is always successes with JEWS or self criticized successes.


How about this one?

Can CHINKS admit they are at the root of the current world situation, and not an unfamed Zimbabwean mad thinker or a worshipper of Voodoo?

Entertain me.

Space conquest program was supposed to be the solution to keep the expansion Ponzi triggered on 1776, July,4th going.
CHINKS never admitted the grand fiasco, even though it is the fiasco that destroyed their hope of keeping the Ponzi unknown.
They redressed it as a great victory of the US Eagle over the Soviet Bear. Nice. Wooo, so relieving.

The few only times CHINKS are ready to declare their own failures is when they do not kill people fast enough, when they are not enough efficient in killing people.

Other than that, well, it is always successes with CHINKS or self criticized successes.


Entertained yet? Still feel like a hero?


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:48 | 2192187 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Entertained? No. I dont share that US citizen taste for racism. Sorry. Racism is an instrumental key component of US citizenism. US citizens can not do without it, as you've proved once more.

Besides, this is once again cheap propaganda as expected and of the poorest taste.

US citizenism is not a race so why tie to races?

Yours is also a work of fantasy. Mine is simple collection of basic observations.

Read your first 'entertaining' bit. What have negroes to do with the space conquest and the tale that this movement should be hope for humanity as it would allow to keep the expansion Ponzi started on 1776,July, 4th?

How many negroes can you quote involved in building up that thick pack of lies?

And it works for the rest.

Once again, kicking the can and with the poorest taste of all.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:14 | 2192199 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

What' wrong with voodoo?
i mean..."you don't do money if you don't do voodoo" folks.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:00 | 2192257 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah side note: NIGGER, JEW, CHINK...

Ummmmm, yes, that is US citizen taste for equality, sort of.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 04:56 | 2192040 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Meanwhile in the USA everything is splendiferously hunky-dory, with nothing like that sort of thing going on.

Give us a break!!!!!!!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:22 | 2192106 NorthPole
NorthPole's picture

Very instructive video, and right about many things. One thing however I cannot agree with: his constant bashing of Germany.

The thing is, Germany is the paymaster and will impose whatever terms they please. You'll have to either default or suck it up, rather than go around complaining how the German way of austerity sucks, yet have no balls to actually pull an Iceland.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:41 | 2192113 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

This Irishman forgets that Ireland built an economy on Agricultural Subsidies from the EU paid for by Germany as largest net contributor; and secondly by running a tax haven onshore in Dublin so companies like Microsoft, Google, and German chemcial companies could use it as an invoicing centre and pay 10% tax or lower.

So Irekand took German Cash and helped circumvent German corporate taxes so the tax burden fell on Ordinary German workers whose social security charges have gone through the roof to compensate pricing them out of jobs and shops.

Ireland let its bloated banks go mad and they boasted how much richer they were than the English - "Celtic Tiger". They even EXEMPT farmers and artists (writers etc) from Income Tax. Bit like Greece really. So they have rich EU citizens buying farms in Ireland to escape taxes.

They have even a scam in issuing Irish (EU) Passports to people who have a tenuous link with Ireland - like Saudi Arabians. So they are creating EU Citizens at quite a clip.

Ireland is author of its own misfortune. Since 1921 it has ruled itself and elected its own political parties defined by their Civil War.

Who are the major figures inside the EU Commission - Irish and Greek. Look at Peter Sutherland of Goldman Sachs, BP.

How many Banks run their SIVs over Ireland ? Look how much of the CMOs and CDOs are run over Irish tax shelters in suubs of major global banks. Find how many unconsolidated subs of Lehman,. Deutsche, Goldman, HSBC, HVB, DepFa, SocGen etc run over Irish tax shelter companies.


This video is BS. He blames Protestants because he cannot say Jews and be PC. It is always someone else at fault. Well Ireland got to vote on its governments and they wanted to join the Euro to show how much better they were than Britain and they boasted how rich they were and how poor Britain was outside the Euro. They took bribes from the EU Commission to sign up now they want to blame others for the mess the Irish voters got themselves into

In 2005, The Wall Street Journal had brought attention to Microsoft's efforts to route for example profits on sales in Germany to Dublin on which they paid Ireland at the low headline tax rate of 12.5%. The Journal said a subsidiary, Round Island One Ltd., operated from the offices of a Dublin law firm and was one of the country's biggest companies, with gross profits of nearly $9bn in 2004 but it had no direct staff. Now Google and Facebook are following on Microsoft's trail.



Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:06 | 2192117 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

ActionAid says: "UK law compels companies to report all of their subsidiary companies, together with their country of registration. When we looked for this information in early 2011, we discovered that more than half of the FTSE 100 were not complying with this legal obligation. When enquiries to individual companies failed to persuade them to disclose the information, we submitted complaints to Companies House, forcing the disclosures as part of companies’ annual returns."

The New York Times in 2005 described Ireland as the "Wild West of European finance", a perception that helped prompt the creation of the Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority.

Despite its mandate for stricter oversight, the agency never imposed major sanctions on any Irish institution, even though Ireland had experienced several major banking scandals in overcharging of their customers. Industry representatives disputed the idea that Ireland may be home to unchecked financial frauds.[29] In December 2008, irregularities in directors loans, that were kept off a bank's balance sheet for eight years forced the resignation of the financial regulator.[30][31]

Economic commentator David McWilliams has described the collapse of Anglo Irish Bank as Ireland's Enron   Wikipedia

In January 2007, McWilliams was selected as one of 250 Young Global Leaders by the World Economic Forum.


50% consumer packaged software in Europe sold through Irish letterbox invoicing centres to reduce Corporate Tax

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:51 | 2192188 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When you point at US citizens, it is not someone else's fault. Harsh reality check,maybe.

But what cash? The Ponzi has been going for years.

Irish did not receive cash, they receive a debt tickets that would allow them to get access to the commodity trading countries.

Ah, back to Smith and his famous argument. I wonder who is right now, the guro of US citizen economics or his opponents?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:30 | 2192216 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

They received CASH from the Common Agricultural Policy equivalent to 4% GDP plus funds from Structural and Regional Aid Budgets. It is time you AnAnonymous started to know how things work rather than soubd off with your ignorant rants

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:56 | 2192251 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No. They did not receive cash. They were transfered debt.

Insolvent countries only trade their insolvency.

Ah, appeal to ignorance.

It is true that every day passing by shows how much better US citizens know.

US citizens know best, well known, and it takes more than US citizen dimension denial of reality to deny that.

Yeah, sure.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 11:40 | 2192735 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

sandmann, he is chinese, I presume mainland

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 05:38 | 2192112 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Notwithstanding all the Greek goings-on, there is something here that is really confusing me.

Can anyone explain, if the LTRO is in effect monetization in the Eurozone, why isn't the Euro FALLING and the Dollar rising?

Any responses gratefully received.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:04 | 2192127 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

David, the euro is a response to the "no, we are not going to exchange dollars for gold anymore Nixon Dollar of 1971"

whenever the FED monetizes, the ECB does something similar to balance. always a step behind and a bit more cautiously.

this is the game, for a while - of course you could point the finger to the Chinese starting the current Currency Wars, if you really want.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:19 | 2192160 fourchan
fourchan's picture

everything is going to central bankers plan.


and the plan is to capture all assets and production, and enslave all the people through debt.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:01 | 2192193 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the current Global Banking Cartel is not the central banks and is not the governments of the NATO countries, hell, it's not even the whole of the banking systems, only the Masters-Of-The-Universe-Previously-Known-As-Investment-Banks

you are mistaking the now-parasite with the hosts of the parasite. Central Banks are facilities - that can be taken over, yes.

Just because Ron Paul is sending a simplified message it does not mean you are not allowed to think.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:27 | 2192168 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

name one central bank that has given a shit about gold since 1971. here's your answer Ghordius: ZERO. This is about OIL...plain and simple. Currently the price of oil denominated in euros (Brent crude) is 40 bucks more a barrel than North Dakota light sweet crude. Should the commodity exchange of Minneapolis Minnesota simply declare itself a "North Dakota crude" standard it will finish off your euro instantly. Hmmmm. I wonder why they don't just do it....Oh, yeah. "The dollar phuckers." They need to keep the euro alive to keep their ponzi alive and well too. The markets are well past discussing "workability" here. As Larry Kudlow said "Greece peaked in 400 b.c." That's not meant to give offense btw...merely to offer a reference point for investors "we need to move forward on this issue in order to deploy our capital in the most efficient manner." That would be North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Saskatchewan, Alberta, etc, etc....In other words COMPETITIVENESS wins the day everytime in...ahem..."currency wars." MOVE ALONG SHEEPLE!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:44 | 2192181 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I don't get your point. the monetary "arrangements" of the Bretton Wood Conference made the Dollar the Reserve Currency of the Free World. The arrangement was in so far stable as that the other Central Banks were allowed to get gold for Dollars - note: more than the US Citizens - so that you can say the USD was gold-backed for us foreigners.

The first time the US Treasury seriously started to print like mad and the FED to monetize, this created inflation and horror here, and France asked for gold in exchange of the mountain of dollars we all had.

Nixon showed the surrender-monkeys the finger and closed the "gold window". Since then we europeans are left with "our problem". And since going goldbacked when the global reserve currency is pure fiat is not an option, neither economically nor politically, we created, as a response, a multi-currency peg shelter-from-shocks-umbrella called the euro.

I repeat: as long as the US has the so called "exorbitant priviledge" no other central bank can even think about going goldbacked, you'd be looted in weeks.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:22 | 2192205 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Bretton Woods was a SYSTEM OF FINANCE...not merely "establishing the dollar as the world's reserve currency." In other words IT CREATED A BOND MARKET. As Machiavelli said: "let's look to the result." The thiry year mortgage, the GI bill which sent millions to college, the interstate highway system, the Space Program, the internet, etc...etc...etc. YOU'RE DEVOLVING ALL THIS TO GOLD? hahahahaha! "You go girl!" Currently the USA is funding at times 100 billion in debt a week. Last week the euro-zone managed 4 billion for Italy...4 billion for Spain. Tell me something..."Ghordius"...when you think of Spain is all you think of is "some country"? I mean "what if they imported an entire Continent" to show you otherwise? "Your euro zone is meaningless next to the Spanish Empire." Move along.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:48 | 2192234 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

again, I don't get your point. originally, you said something along the lines that "no CB wants to go goldbacked" and I pointed to the current Reserve Currency shenigan - with the US in the lead. So yes, IMO there probably won't be a gold backed currency until this is over - here you have brought additional points.

the eurozone meaningless? why? if you look at it as a multicurrency peg and realize it's purpose is the continental flow of goods, particularly the flow of semi-finished goods, in some way it's a need that might get satisfied with other means.

no, being alone with a small currency is not an option, please see how the CHF seeks shelter under the euro umbrella since last summer, otherwise the Swiss industry has to go to China...


but again what would be the "ideal world"? let's make an architectural comparison:

a fully-reserved banking system based on gold is a bit like a pyramid - sturdy, lasts ages

a fractional-reserve banking system based on gold is a bit like a column - less "wasteful" on resources but could be toppled, so you usually put a central bank as a roof on it for stabilization

a fractional-reserve banking system based on fiat is a bit like a bridge - a marvel of technology which needs upkeep and should not be unduly stressed or it could degrade or even break

now we are building up stresses on those bridges since decades. are they both degrading? yes. but will they break? with inflation, as Oncle Ben hopes, you usually squeeze the resources necessary for the upkeep. that's the US game, currently. we'll see.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:30 | 2192173 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Thanks for your response. I understand what you're saying but my question remains - if the ECB is monetzing (i.e. following the Fed) why is the Euro going HIGHER and not lower?

I don't think the Chinese started the Currency Wars, I think the US did ('We are dedicated to a strong dolar and it's these naughty Chinese who won't play along with us').


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:07 | 2192190 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

well, the LTRO is a bit different from straight monetization, in theory the banks lending can do something else than buy sovereign bonds with it. It's a new tool and we don't have much experience with it, so it's going to be exciting...

but for all purposes, the EURUSD is currently a playball of the Global Banking Cartel. Sure, the mechanism of the FED monetizing according to the Treasury needs is the primary impulse, then the ECB follows with catering the needs of the eurobanking system (that for political reasons is on the hock with govdebt), so the tendency is to have the dollar going down first and then the euro correcting.

But you have also the US money markets pushing for a higher euro so that they can scoop up some profits and the fact that the eurozone, if it were a country, would have a debt to GDP of 85% and a trade surplus. But don't expect the US euro-propaganda to put it this way, they prefer to talk bullshit and point to the teenee-weenee rates difference and a multitude of other empty propaganda points.

seen this way, the tendency of the euro is to go up vs the dollar until it's politically expedient to correct. I would not be surprised by 1.425 by Easter, though I would never bet on it, and I strongly advise against it.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:26 | 2192210 DavidC
DavidC's picture

I agree it's not straight monetization, but it's exaclt what the Fed has been doing ('swapping' bonds for cash to the banks, dollar swapping with the Europena banks), so LTRO is, effectively, a monetization (cash is being injected into the system and the LTRO is taking on board crap guaranteed by Governments for example).

So, ny question still remains, if money (Euros) is being pushed into the system why is the currency not reacting accordingly. Am I being dense?


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:19 | 2192275 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you have a two years old account at ZH, you know the debate. the deflationists say this is all being soaked by the rotten balance sheets of the banks, the people and of course the US-houses-previously-called-ever-expanding-assets.

myself, I'm an inflationist of the just-wait sort: historically it takes some six to eighteen months for prices to rise after monetization in a honest-down-to-earth real-goods-and-services economy. which is a tiny part of the current economies, more in the US and even more in the UK. so it might take even longer. and goods like rice, wheat, corn etc. cannot be priced to infinity - they rot when stored too long.

so yes, if the markets were perfect (hahaha) everybody would compare the two currencies and react accordingly. but the future? markets try to price in the future and we have many, many forkroads in front of us.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:12 | 2192198 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I strongly advise to see Nixon's Speech of August 15th, 1971

Listen carefully, he sure does not sound like an American President would nowadays.

Of course this should be teached at school, but hey, as he himself said: "the Dollar is our currency and your problem" - meaning it's not an US problem, only of the rest of the world.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:24 | 2192208 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

yeah, well..."the House of Saud" had something to say about that. And lo and behold "i don't need that history lesson cuz look where we're sending our boyz and girlz as state policy"? again MOVE ALONG.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:52 | 2192243 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

our boyz are in Afghanistan, too - I myself did my little bit against the USSR. Yes, oil. is important. If you are dependent from oil as an import than it would be wise to export something else in exchange.

again I think we might understand each other better if we would be a bit more clear...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:31 | 2192309 PR Guy
PR Guy's picture

"If you are dependent from oil as an import than it would be wise to export something else in exchange."

/sarcasm on

I thought the US exported democracy?

/sarcasm off

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 11:38 | 2192723 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Let me state it this way: a nation with a functioning legal system and government based on democratic representation is still the best setup we humans have found up to now. not perfect, just the best of all the bad ones (paraphrased from Churchill)

Any imperial (or commercial-imperial) setup that this nation has on others is still tempered by the sense of justice the citizenship at the empire's center has - best example: how India convinced the British Electorate of setting the crown jewel of the empire free

yes, Bush did untold damage to the fact that the USA exports democracy, often with lots of strings attached, nevertheless democracy is exported and I, personally, will never stop being grateful for it.

Nobody with an understanding for people ever expected any system containing people of being perfect. where people are, mistakes are made, toghether with lots and lots of dirty deals and compromises

America is just sick, lately. That's all. I hope Oncle Sam is soon over this MegaBanksterInfluenza and breaks it's CorporatePowerFever. It did before, so I am optimistic.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:04 | 2192151 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Simple and bitter like a pint; the first world is now United scam-land across Atlantic. And the Oligarchs own it all. Every man for himself is what they love; as divide and rule the sheeple has been a perpetual theme since ROme invented the Gladius, decisive arm of legionary. 

Gladius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its time for the people to invent the swirling cavalry of the Scyths and to bring the banksta legions to its knees. 

Where are you Spartacus-Anonymous.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:29 | 2192170 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The euro is a ponzi scheme. This is not news. In order to sustain itself the eurozone must keep adding countries. Greece cannot be allowed to exit. Killing it kills the euro too though. Goodbye Greece=Goodbye euro. Greece is is the euro. Move along.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:02 | 2192191 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

ah, yes, expanding ponzi schemes. everything seen this way is so simple... read above, please. Greece leaving the euro would be warmly greeted in the rest of the eurozone, btw

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:23 | 2192206 DavidC
DavidC's picture

I assume you're being ironic when you say the rest of the Eurozone would welcome the exit of Greece? If Greece goes that's the start of the dominos falling, in addition to the massive banking exposure.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:25 | 2192255 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

that's the propaganda the banks are using in the US - usually used to push the EURUSD low and to get the people to buy US Treasuries

part of the LTRO and the "firewalls" are all preparations for this event, and no, we don't know for sure

no, the Germans are starting to really hope for the Greeks to leave the euro - which is technically and legally a different matter from defaulting

myself, I predicted a Greek default for Summer 2011 (without exit from the euro) - but then the damned CDSs were again used as a bargaining tool

though the Greeks would still prefer to default and keep the euro - though all the others want some balanced bugdets in exchange instead of the excesses of the past

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:29 | 2192215 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

as the guy who invented the word "Greece" to define Greece--go ahead, call it what you will. they're sure not a country anymore!!!! and of course "your loss is our gain" should Greece wish it to be (and tell the Americans to come on in and run the place such that they can stand on their own two feet like Japan and Germany were run.) the Greeks make Yoghurt in Upstate NY. Interestingly..."they make it in a tiny little town called New Berlin." No thanks to the Mayor of New York City? No one is taking credit for the jobs created...that's fer sure. And are the Greeks sending a message to peons like you Ghordius? GOD DAMN RIGHT THEY ARE!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:23 | 2192258 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the Greeks have an own language, an own culture, an own religion and an own territory - I will continue to call them a nation until they themselves stop doing that.

what message are they sending to me and why should I be a peon? (scratching head)

the Greeks I know personally usually don't mention the word

a family does not stop being a family only because the wife has a spending habit and pushes the whole family in debt

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:31 | 2192202 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Berlin's 'Position Has not Changed'

On Wednesday, German Finance Minister Schäuble said: does my wheel-chair look like a helicopter ?

Is my first and last name Ben Bernank or do I look like the charity of Saint Mother Theresa ?

The answer is NO if you still know what "NO" means !

So you can all just go behind that Greek IMF firewall  - mix the vinegar, lemon juice, oregano, and thyme in a bowl, Season, slowly whisk in the oil. Place chicken in a bowl and ease that Chicken Souvlaki up Lagardes Geitner.

Part of the Resistance in Berlin is due to the fact that Merkel is facing a tough vote in the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, next week over the second bailout package for Greece. A least six parliamentarians belonging to Merkel's governing coalition have said they would oppose the bailout in Monday's vote.

Both the United States and the IMF have argued that Europe should pay more.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert insisted on Wednesday that Germany sees no need to increase the size of the permanent ESM. "The German government's position has not changed," he said. "That means no, it is not necessary." Berlin has noted that market pressure on bond markets for countries like Italy and Spain has eased in recent weeks and that it is currently unnecessary to increase the size of the bailout fund.,1518,817152,00.html


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:03 | 2192263 djudy003
djudy003's picture

This twitter idea is cool but since SEC has nothing to do (like prosecute Jon Crozine) they will open a case against bloggers using social media to manipulate markets and spread false news.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:23 | 2192290 hazek
hazek's picture

I like this 2nd lesson but I then went and watched their first lesson and I almost threw up cause of all of that socialists bullshit solutions they mixed in with somewhat accurately describing the problem.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:30 | 2192306 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 09:41 | 2192323 GCT
GCT's picture

Ghordius spot on.  Tough for some to face some facts.  Charles De Gaulle called Nixon's bluff.  Stupid for the USA not to ever float the gold price. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:00 | 2192804 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Tough for some to face some facts" - I'm not sure if it's tough, I think it's more that for the younger generations it's very difficult to visualize a problem that is going on since more than 40/80 years.

Alexa says this site has a very old population, but I generally get the impression of youngness here. Specifically, the most active commenters give me the feeling of being of the US "Hero" generation (you probably know the book - otherwise I reccomend it). Myself, I feel when conversing with them as belonging to the "Nomad" generation - which would me make an age-outlier in the US, but those cultural shifts are local.

The US Hero generation is - according to the theory - looking for straightforward common solutions - best if simple. And we are letting them down with all the persistent crookedness of the past. I have experienced the trek in the desert, they see and want the walls of Jericho to storm. We would have to convince them to wait until the walls fall down because they will anyway - perhaps organizing some parade around them? ;-)

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:05 | 2192820 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

The net economic effect of this is identical to the financial system of doing NOTHING except drastically cutting the reserve requirements of Europe's banks.  Any "liquidity" is a mirage in terms of wealth.

Well, nothing except in the deal, those who control the creation of debt money get to impose the status of indentured servant on all citizens via their obligation to service the perpetual debt.


Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:31 | 2193206 GCT
GCT's picture

Ghordius sometimes we agree and disagree and that is a good thing.  I do not post much and I see alot of dissatisfied youth here.  They were told about the working hard ethic, (I actually see it as most people areound the worlds dream)  and college will make you alot more money.  This is not happening.  Well some of them get useless degrees but they bought into this hook, line and sinker, and are waking up.  Actually it is easier for me to speak with younger people as they are not so ingrained in their ways.  I will retire next year lol so you know my age!!!

I see colleges raising tuition so high because they know the fed will cover it.  I know I live in a three college town and it is nuts.  My neice is the admissions director.  Smart Girl by the way with a phd. I stated the tough to face facts because I too used to do the same thing, even when presented with facts.  Most of the human race could care less as that is not what they want to hear.  People do not like conflict contrary to what anon always posts about of maneating American citizens.  I have lived all over the world and learned one thing above all else.  We are all basically alike and want the same things.  Once you understand another persons culture or manner systems nothing is really different.  I was bless to live most of my adult life all over the world.

I hope you have a good day Ghordius and many others here. 




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