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On Europe's Economic Malpractice, Misdiagnosis, And Biased Maltreatment

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With so many countries vying for the dubious honor of “Sick man of Europe,” ConvergEx's Nic Colas looks at some of the academic literature related to how doctors make sound diagnostic decisions.  The medical profession suffers from many of the challenges we all face in making sound judgments, fighting off inherent biases and shortcuts to make consistent decisions based on the facts.  The one difference is that medical professionals must often make their decisions “On the fly,” with life or death often in the balance.  In contrast, European policymakers have, thus far, had the luxury of time in addressing the region’s challenges.  But if the pace of crisis picks up in the coming months, the ECB/IMF as well as other monetary and fiscal policy bodies will have to move more like an army field surgeon than careful diagnostician.

Back in college, I had several friends who studied colonial American life as a way to hone their archaeological field work skills.  They would spend their summers digging up old farmsteads or commercial buildings or even cemeteries before the land was put to use in other, more modern applications.  Essentially, if someone wanted to build a shopping mall in Rhode Island they would pay the local university to do a site analysis and see if there was anything interesting under the ground.  If there was, they had a few weeks to unearth it before the bulldozers moved in and the concrete was poured.  My friends worked on these teams, got a lot of experience in solid archaeological field practice and usually developed a pretty good tan from working outdoors for the summer.

There was, however, the odd grisly discovery, such as when they found an old colonial graveyard and had to excavate and remove the 200+ year old coffins and their contents.   Wooden boxes don’t last that long in wet climates, so most of them had at least partially disintegrated.  On the plus side, that meant that the bodies had long ago turned to simple white bones.  But the bad news was that occasionally – not very often, but enough to notice – my friends would come across coffin lids that appeared to have scratch marks on the insides.  As if the person had been buried before they were actually dead.  I thoughts this was all a joke, but over the years I have heard enough such stories to allow that perhaps they are more than just the imagination of college undergrads.

The logic behind such an unspeakable horror is that medical science didn’t advance very much until the 1800s, and what we know today as a coma could have easily been misdiagnosed at the time as outright death.  And without the custom of embalming, the unlucky patient would find themselves quickly dispatched to the grave. Only to awaken later.

I bring this up because I have been thinking about the many similarities between the challenges faced by doctors (to cure the sick) and monetary and fiscal policymakers (to alleviate the pain and suffering of the Financial Crisis).   A quick look at the medical literature on the topic of sound diagnostic decision making only cemented the comparison in my mind.

One piece from the National Institutes of Health National Library has a checklist of “Five pitfalls in decisions about diagnosing and prescribing” that seems eerily like sound advice for a central banker rather than an M.D.  You can see the whole analysis here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC555888/

 

A quick review of the biases mentioned in the article follows:

  • The Representative Heuristic.  Say you are told that a group of 100 people includes 70 accountants and 30 social media entrepreneurs.  When asked to guess the occupation of an unspecified member of the group who lives in San Francisco, has a beard, and skateboards to work, you’d probably say it was someone from the social media cohort.  You would be going against the fact that fully 70% of the group are accountants because of some simple stereotyping.  Bad idea. In medicine, the outcome of this mental shortcut is diagnosing someone based purely around the observed symptoms rather than the chance of that explanation being accurate in the first place.  The New Yorker has a great case study of this here: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/01/29/070129fa_fact_groopman.
  • The Availability Heuristic.  Doctors come to conclusions about a diagnosis based in part on what they have seen or heard recently.  One study showed that despite the fact that opioid-based pain relievers are nowhere near as addictive as the popular press would have us believe, doctors tend to under prescribe them and therefore undertreat pain.
  • Overconfidence.  Studies mentioned in the NIH article state that doctors overestimate their abilities much as people generally think they are generally “Above average” at most basic tasks. One specific study mentioned that primary care doctors and oncologists rate their ability to manage pain quite highly, despite the fact that they actually had “serious shortcomings” in their actual knowledge on the topic.
  • Confirmatory bias.  This is the tendency to look for supporting data that fits your view of a given problem or question, and dismiss that which challenges your beliefs.  The article mentions that the process of taking medical histories is especially susceptible to this bias, with doctors only asking for questions that support their already-set presumptions about what is wrong. 
  • Illusory correlation.  Take, for example, your doctor’s exhortation to “Eat less red meat!”  You ask “Why?” and your MD points you to a raft of studies that shows that people in the top quintile of red meat consumption have a 20 percent greater risk of dying than those in the bottom quintile.  Should you lay off the steaks?  Maybe.  But maybe not.  What if red meat eating people, by coincidence, smoke more or have more stressful jobs?  That might explain the “Red Meat Kills” message more correctly, no?  See here for a great review of this phenomenon:  http://garytaubes.com/2012/03/science-pseudoscience-nutritional-epidemio....

To pivot the topic to economic policymaking from medical diagnostics, think of the situation in Europe at the moment.  The doctors are all the senior policymakers whose mandate it is to “Cure” Europe of its problems and return the patient to good health.  Aside from a few spasms during the Greek debt crisis last year, it has been a slow process between doctor and subject.  The kindly MD says “Lose some weight and exercise more, or you’ll die young!” The patient says they will promise to try. Tomorrow.  After all, the heuristics I outlined above also reside in the one being examined.  Overconfidence, especially.  But when does this all step over the line into economic “Malpractice?”

A few point of reference back to the medical world:

  • Most malpractice cases in the U.S. are made against primary care physicians regarding care given in their own offices.
  • The length of time in malpractice cases between when symptoms first arise and a patient was (finally) properly diagnosed is just over 300 days.
  • The top five most misdiagnosed diseases are Breast Cancer, Colorectal Cancer, Infections, Skin Cancer and Bone Fractures.
  • About 60% of all malpractice cases relate to failed cancer diagnoses and 12% of all cancer is initially misdiagnosed.
  • For more, see here: http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-family-practice/vol....

The ongoing challenges in Greece, Spain, Italy and other European countries could be considered either economic malpractice or misdiagnosis.  It actually doesn’t really matter which at this point.  With the European economy at a standstill or (at best) a sluggish trot, the next phase of the crisis could easily start in the coming month as the Greek electorate (hopefully) chooses a new government and struggles to chart a consistent course.  At the same time, capital markets are clearly losing patience with the Spanish government’s attempts to recapitalize the banking system there.

The upshot here is that European policymakers would then move from the comfort of the family practice to the more chaotic environment of an emergency room.  If they decide that Greece “Cannot be saved,” as so many pundits claim, then will they avoid the biases we outlined here – those shortcuts that doctors make during periods of stress and pressure?  Will they see “Austerity” as the cure for every ailment, or will they remain flexible?  Will they remain overconfident and (potentially) overplay their hand?

It is tempting to say that policymakers should follow the Hippocratic Oath and “First, do no harm.”  Sadly, the situation in Europe is beyond that simple recommendation. 

 

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Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:00 | 2474253 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

 Banker, steal thyself.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:35 | 2474282 ACP
ACP's picture

Actually, that sleep potion from "Army of Darkness" would probably be the best solution, provided you can find a cave that no one will enter for 1,000 years.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:14 | 2474399 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/buried.asp

 

some horrific true tales of being buried alive!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:29 | 2474511 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

How about the gold storage rooms in Ford Knox?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:07 | 2474582 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm sure they would be perfect to store French Cheeses

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:24 | 2474274 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Rise of the Zombies.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:26 | 2474275 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

Tyler,

Simply because an idea has some ability to replicate does not mean we have to all grasp it.

How about I just ICD10 your ass and throw a little bit of Healthcare insurance exchange on top of it?

You may say no, no forget the night, but I will have my way with you on EMR.

Yea EMR is where it’s at.  

Quote from my friend Carl.. Billions and billions.

Was up doc?

Hep me, hep me, I'm on a sev level 3 and can't get beyond first tier support. ;>)

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:26 | 2474277 Chuck Bone
Chuck Bone's picture

The "Doctor Mario" picture accompanying this article in on the home page is perfect. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:41 | 2474287 jomama
jomama's picture

all i know is that PM prices in USD are seriously fucked up (way too low) right now.  ESPECIALLY given the shitstorm brewing.

i'm amazed i made it to another payday with silver this low.  gonna have to pick up another 100oz come thursday.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:26 | 2474436 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

It's called MANIPULATION!  Like when an erotic massage parlor will MANIPULATE your tool for a price.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:55 | 2474310 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Europe needs to be taken out in the back and shot in the head.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:56 | 2474314 IMACOINNUT
IMACOINNUT's picture

Great references here Tyler, my wife is pulling my ass off the recliner to bed.  Will have to finish reading Wednesday.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:16 | 2474431 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

pulling my ass off the recliner to bed

 

could be better phrased !

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:32 | 2474327 xtop23
xtop23's picture

The difference is that, in the medical profession, litigation due to malpractice results in stiff penalties and perhaps jail time.

In the world of finance, malpractice results in inflated bonuses and parabolic promotions.

Or perhaps even a keynote nod from Biden.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:15 | 2474429 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

If you had Doctors working as Bankers they would have Full Immunity

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:29 | 2474485 MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

I wonder how many bankers have gone to jail.  I mean I know a bunch have, very few in the grand scheme of things...  but I mean, it would be nice to know what percentage have been in jail, and for how long, on average and on median.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:02 | 2474331 GernB
GernB's picture

The analogy is incomplete. A doctor can recomend a course of treatment but cannot force the patient to take the treatment. By contrast, every solution I see coming out of the Eurozone, or even proposed in the US, seems centered on government forcing people to take whatever cure they decide upon. It's as if people are not individuals but cogs in a system and exist to serve the state.

The problem is there isn't enough money to go around and it is becoming difficult and ineffective to print more. There is no solution to "not enough money" that does not involve living on less money. Living on less money means austerity, no matter how you slice it. You can't "avoid" not having enough money, thus there is no avoiding austerity.

The real question is will austerity be imposed by a government who decides who is entitled to what, or will it be determined by free individuals coping as best they can. At least in the latter case each individual has the hope they can rise above the current financial mess.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:14 | 2474353 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

What will we buy?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:52 | 2474453 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Um, red pill?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:24 | 2474362 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

This analogy does not work. Politics is looking after Bankers not the Economy or Society and seeing that as most important. It is as if a doctor in the USA encouraged an obese man in California not to diet because the doctor had seen malnutrition in Rwanda when he was a student. They are obsessed with helping Banks to destroy the economy over a full cycle - first unregulated Boom then subsidised Bust with a major credit squeeze on the economy. We have watched overdraft rates hit 19% as the Bank of England freezes base rates at 0.5% until 2017. How does anyone get a yield on Deposit interest anywhere near Credit Interest ?

Utilities try to impose a 30% increase in monthly direct-debit to customers permanently in credit to compensate for low deposit rates on cash float. The household sector is being crushed and Politics and Bankers conspire in Financial Repression

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:29 | 2474513 MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

I'll second that ... This particular Durden has made a mistake. The doctors, in this particular analogy, I'm assuming, are supposedly trying to save lives. Whether or not they are successful, TRYING TO SAVE, is the key point. The financial policy makers of the ECB, the various World Banks and financial institutions, and Europe's various central banks, are CLEARLY NOT TRYING TO SAVE, Europe... So the analogy is completely worthless. ADDING MOOOAR DEBT TO DEBT, is like giving pcp to a dust addict b/c he just ate someone's face off, while they were fucking alive, and you are goddamn afraid of what he'll do when he's not lit anymore... The only problem? WE, are like the small little critters living on the angel dust freaks... so if they OD, we're all screwed.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:47 | 2474617 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

"How does anyone get a yield on Deposit interest anywhere near Credit Interest ?"

I continue to be amazed that no one has come up with an alternative business that lends money out for credit card purchases at a rate that is more competitive (cheaper) than current Banker-Rip-Off rates.

Surely someone can come up with a business plan in this low "return on investment" environment...

 

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:44 | 2474372 Olympia
Olympia's picture

It all started with the big crisis of 1929. The American economy reached a deadlock because of its social "pathogenesis"; a deadlock that led it to economic crisis in a different - faster- pace than the rest of the industrial forces of that time. Important decisions had to be made - mostly social - and the Whites didn't like that, especially the Whites' rulers, the Anglo-Saxons. The USA society had to either be homogenized and "forget" about racism against black people or find itself in a permanent deadlock that would threaten it with social uprising. If they didn't equate the black working people with their white colleagues so that there wouldn’t be an issue with the salaries that threatened the national currency, they couldn't avoid reactions and all that goes with it.

 

The problem which began as social but was turning into economic was simple. As long as the economy functioned adequately and the Blacks worked and asserted what they deserved for their work, the white employers had to "fund" the white working force with extra money because of their skin color. To avoid complaints from a white worker who received the same salary with his black colleague, the employers had no choice but to give them more money. The demands of the Blacks were used as an excuse by the Whites to demand more and everything ended up in the same pocket, since they were under the same employ. The problem that arose from this "strange" tactic was that the increased takings of the "superior" White employers were seeking outlet in investments and that threatened the capital. Having higher salaries, they bought more houses; they bought stocks and so on.

 

 

www.eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2010/02/ten-plagues-of-pharaoh.html

 

Authored by Panagiotis Traianou

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:07 | 2474390 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The scheme fosters more consumption and as US citizens aim for depletion of resources...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:55 | 2474380 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Got it! Brevity being the mark of the professional, try this: Don't let Confidence trump Competance. There fixed it!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:05 | 2474386 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The take is always the same: something is going wrong. Something goes as unexpected.

Yet US citizens have forced the world on a certain path and what is happening is normal due to the taken path.

The medecine angle is a right one.

You know, take a runner. The runner runs faster and faster until the point he can not go faster. Later, the runner observes that the speed can not be maintained and is decreasing.

And once again, we have here another occurrence of physicians, medical researchers being US citizens who happen to be physicians or medical researchers.

Just as the author declared illness on Europe condition, the medical have declared illness on people who run and can not run faster and longer all the time.
So a large amount of resources has been dedicated to cure the runner's 'disease' and US citizens have invented all kinds of drugs to get rid of the sickness while actually only lengthening the performance capacity, very often at the cost of the runner's health who is later forced to take heaps of different drugs during the rest of the life to counter the effects of the performance enhancing drugs taken before.

It is the same. On this site, US citizens relish on refering to Mises' quote on credit expansion etc as if it was the latest discovery in the world, the state of the art.

It is just a mere diversion to avoid facing the very fact that the dealing of the economical 'crisis' is nothing but the normal consequences of the path taken by US citizens.
That bankers and economists etc do not act the way they are because they are bankers and economists but just like physicians or medical researchers, they act the way they act because they are US citizens who happen to be medical researcher or banker and the rest.

US citizenism is the root.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:23 | 2474402 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Huh?

I can figure out you hate us but not a lot more. Must not be a native speaker. 

Good luck.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:30 | 2474435 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

A2 is rarely logical, ms_C, but when he is, he kicks some serial ass, imo

he does the psychosis so well!  tough nut to crack

some self-trained shrinks learn to present themselves as different kindsa textbook crazy as a cover for their political or other activities?

he does make people wonder, but he oftes gives (me) a "fuzzy picture" too, which is why i tend to see him as an "impressionist artist" if not a master impressionista

theCuckoo'sNest is a POV;  it is not devoid of logic or perspective;  he keeps banging away at american conditioning and nobody can understand him,  true?  as a pirate, i gotta love that shit, ms_C!  it is fuking zH wunderbar to slewie!  how could he be expected to be rational?

as with rumi, almost: if you do not look at his face but take what is in his hand...? 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:02 | 2474463 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

He is Dada not 'impressionist'. He/she tries to be Magriite: "Ceci n'est pas une pipe".  Epic fail.



Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:36 | 2474599 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

dada and mama both give me impressions, btw

what does he fail at?

he's a fuking blogger;  he's psychotic<?>;  he's here<?>; and he's harmless<?>, and he writes stuff like [paste}:

Just as the author declared illness on Europe condition, the medical have declared illness on people who run and can not run faster and longer all the time.
So a large amount of resources has been dedicated to cure the runner's 'disease' and US citizens have invented all kinds of drugs to get rid of the sickness while actually only lengthening the performance capacity, very often at the cost of the runner's health who is later forced to take heaps of different drugs during the rest of the life to counter the effects of the performance enhancing drugs taken before.

It is the same. On this site, US citizens relish on refering to Mises' quote on credit expansion etc as if it was the latest discovery in the world, the state of the art.

It is just a mere diversion to avoid facing the very fact that the dealing of the economical 'crisis' is nothing but the normal consequences of the path taken by US citizens.
That bankers and economists etc do not act the way they are because they are bankers and economists but just like physicians or medical researchers, they act the way they act because they are US citizens who happen to be medical researcher or banker and the rest.

US citizenism is the root.

now, allowing for different tastes is all well and there is no sense in people trying to take scalps over A2 , which we have dealt with before, and which seems to be understood

that quote does not "fail" for slewie, ok?  i'm not entirely pleased that it doesn't, but it doesn't

i would not express myself that way;  but this "guy"<?> is good it how he does this, imo

again:  who tf would argue with him<???>

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:43 | 2474614 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It makes no sense?

Probably more, it makes sense and US citizens can not deal with that.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:50 | 2474731 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, A2

some days translate better than others?

i didn't mean it makes no sense, but that when put up inEnglish it is not always linguistically logical;  you may be sensing this yourself, dude or dudette  Hahaha!

no, there is stuff that "groups" do not deal with, well;  so we try to deal with that stuff as individuals if we can, usually, don't "we"?  or in small groups?

if there is an element of truth to: good fences make good neighbors and you start taking the fences down for a better idea or to fix something, or just make moMoney or victimize somebody, some of the group stuff gets pretty confusing, especially who is being good or who needs to deal with what, and why?

and how?  so, yes, we can't deal with it, so you go ahead and take if it for yourself, ok? 

keep us posted!  let us know how you're doing with that, ok?

stop worrying about us citizens and take care of things for yourself, ok?

you are obviously far superior to the US;  when you have a problem with YOUR citizenism,  it always makes sense to everyone, so you lucky fukers can just deal with it and fix it! 

so, we are always the citizenism problem, not y-o-u.  but, jeeeez, A2 we're just not able to perform at your level, i guess,...


Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:58 | 2474752 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

slewie said:

so, we are always the citizenism problem, not y-o-u.  but, jeeeez, A2 we're just not able to perform at your level, i guess,...

He does set a pretty high standard.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:56 | 2475256 Matt
Matt's picture

I think AnAnonymous is saying the problem is the limits to growth, that unlimited growth forever is impossible, and that we are attempting to treat it with debt to force growth to occur.

All of which makes sense and I agree with.

Mixed in with that is this idea that somehow US Citizenism is the cause (I still have not gotten a reply from AnAnonymous as to what exactly the definition of US Citizenism is) and that somehow the path we are on is chosen by us?

This second part is confusing, particularly since the poster is attempting to coin a new term without explaining what it means.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:08 | 2475024 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

No arguement. Just an anonymous opinion. And, BTW It's not Dada or Mama impressionista. It's more in the line of baba da didi. Explains the dystopian cri de coeur. Still an epic fail. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:11 | 2475041 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i heard you the first time, too!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:15 | 2474586 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I still traduce mentally his "US Citizenism" with liberal (in the old non-US sense) bourgeois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie).

ms_C, he repeatedly explained that the "US" part is not literal, it includes europeans, japanese and now also many chinese

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:42 | 2474612 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Liberal? They are a sub set of 'Americanism'

Useless to try to traduce to another word.

I explained why I prefer to use US citizenism instead of 'Americanism' but both cover the same.

The mental translation should go to 'Americanism' and 'American'

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:27 | 2474630 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I disagree. Traditionally we Westerners have a political compass (since the French Revolution) that looks like this:

 

West: the traditional Left (that claims to represent the little people on small wages) and are keen on Progress in the sense of a better life for the poor,

East: the traditional Right (that is also called Conservatives, and claims to represent the middle class - often also religious and ethical principles seen as wise),

North: the Classical Liberals (of which US Libertarians and US Liberals are both subsets) that tend to be more more concerned about Fredom of trade/commerce and personal Liberty and are wary of any goverment expansion

South: the classical Statists that want to solve everything through the State.

 

Liberal is a word that denotes a political orientation and a philosofical stance toward "if in doubt, pro-freedom" a detachment from what the Churches say (aka Radical), from what Tradition says, from what the narrow political and economic interests are. For two hundred years, lots of people asked themselves if a behaviour would be liberal or illiberal, in the sense that "a gentleman has a duty to try to be liberal, i.e. not narrow-minded and petty".

of course since the US has a two-party system the word there has been bastardized and conflated with the Left, even though some Democrats are still visibly liberal and their fight is mainly a philosophical one against the "narrow-mindedness" of the more religious Conservatives - see homosexual marriage and other US "hot issues".

Libertarians also belong to the "family" of the Classical Liberals, best seen in the fact that they don't see the point in forbidding drugs or just forbidding too much in general.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:08 | 2475025 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

"Liberal is a word that denotes a political orientation and a philosofical stance toward "if in doubt, pro-freedom" a detachment from what the Churches say (aka Radical), from what Tradition says,"

liberty is ontological;  the desire is so deep and so feared as to induce immediate psychosis in those who do not get it

pro-freedom becomes obvious at a certain point; or not

kinda like my hair, but less important...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:53 | 2474942 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

I explained why I prefer to use US citizenism instead of 'Americanism' but both cover the same.

The mental translation should go to 'Americanism' and 'American'

Ah, ah, having trap of language translation mistake falling into now are doing you. English language aspect of words having meaning now the downfall of your judicious citizenism crusade being.

Following the path downthere of alternative definitions yours, must have to the terminological glossary including. On every post! Lest the interpretating reader failings to adjudicate intended meaning lusciously.

Being to also is this. Referencing 'US citizen' is to one in the US of A having born a person. For one in the France having born a person, referencing then must ''French citizen' be now. Likewise to one in the Germany having born a person, referencing then must 'German citizen' be now.

Thus of 'citizen' word meaning not capability to cantilever into 'citizenism' context of definingness without strawsman building in road of dead ending.

Quite a citizenism dilemma now do you have constructing.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:08 | 2475009 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

wrong hole

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 12:56 | 2476196 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Ouch!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:17 | 2474809 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

then again, we could just form an online conspiracy for one of the many zH shooters, world-wide, to give him a pie in the face;  and maybe some jelloTM in his pants as the coup de gracie; this would give the eye in the sky a pie in the eye, by-the-bye

scare em so bad, they'd prob just hafta shut us down

  1. i'm not kidding
  2. i never tell the truth
Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:55 | 2474624 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

A2 is rarely logical

----------------------------

Really?

Well, please point logical failures then.

It is quite simple.

The behaviour exhibited in the article does not stem from economics or banking.

It stems from US citizenism.

In the article, the impossibility to maintain an unsustainable endeavour is looked as being a disease, an illness.

It is the same path US citizens have chosen to take in many other fields like physical performances.

Just as for the economy, US citizens have declared that a runner who can not sustain peak speed is ill, sick and therefore has to be medicated by taking various performance enhancing drugs.

Yet, running, getting exhausted and not being able to sustain the effort is not a disease. Never was.

US citizens dismiss that: they consider it an illness and an abnormal situation that requires medical means to be treated.

US citizenism has done a lot for doping and no, it is not only a matter of availability. There is a whole state of mind explaining the motivations.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:28 | 2474838 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

dude or dudette:  you have 1/2 the site convinced you insane;  i'm humoring them, ok?

you are simply relentless as a fighter A2

not very good, but relentless

and some of yer ideez fixeez translate better than others

no: us citizenism is not stoned enuf, yet, to achieve integration...

Rx:  less booze, sugar, refined foods, and plasticMonsantic digestiblity;  more THC and other safe vitamin supplements, fruit, fresh air, and exercise;  noTV

sex is unimportant  L0L!!!;  but at least clothing is optional...  getting pretty nice out, ladies...  see ya?

 

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:57 | 2474960 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

doctor slewie prescribed:

Rx:  less booze, sugar, refined foods, and plasticMonsantic digestiblity;  more THC and other safe vitamin supplements, fruit, fresh air, and exercise;  noTV

Don't fear the reefer.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:23 | 2475406 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

This, I got clearly. Thanks. You are quite sane.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:15 | 2475683 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

no!  you are!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:02 | 2474761 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

slewie said:

A2 is rarely logical, ms_C, but when he is, he kicks some serial ass, imo

I have to agree on both counts. He definitely makes the discussion more interesting.

While I think that sometimes he's having fun with us, the reverse can also be said, so everything evens out.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:47 | 2474618 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Actually, nativity has little to do with command of language due to US citizenism.

Command of language includes the capacity of understanding broken versions of a language.

So anytime a native speaker fails to understand broken versions, the native speaker is exposed in one's lack of command over the language.

But for US citizens, the group is all. They are very limited command over their language but on the version their group is fluent with. It is a social marker and US citizens capacity to read and understand close versions coming from other groups is generally very low.

It is all about group cloning.

Ah, yes, the hate story sure.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:31 | 2474844 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

some of us are less social than others;  this is true in every culture;  haven't you noticed?

you do not see enough, at times

very american!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:03 | 2475293 Matt
Matt's picture

 

"Command of language includes the capacity of understanding broken versions of a language.

So anytime a native speaker fails to understand broken versions, the native speaker is exposed in one's lack of command over the language."

Ok please provide the original word in your native language that means "US Citizenism". Help us to understand what exactly you are saying.

Also, you sometimes right in perfect, clear english, which is why your broken sentences seem to be either intentional or due to lack of care.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:39 | 2474413 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Many on this anonymous site think you are Chinese. Don't know why. I take your posts as an American radical ecofascist who was deprived of oxygen at birth.

Could explain the dyslexia.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:57 | 2474422 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

can it be?

is this true?

A2 has an agenda and is only pretending to be crazed?

nah!  he's our "impressionist" mon-ey-maker shaker or i'll be a nuncle's moniker!  L0L!!!

this is not OT, btw:  look at the title, BiCheZ! 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:32 | 2474437 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Ok, I play-- Mal Mis Bmal. Slewie. He is so unChinese and I am in love with art and no shaker except myself. 'Shake me up Judy' Bleak House

Embarassed to say dig your posts. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:40 | 2474608 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

A2 has an agenda

________________________

Which is?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:41 | 2474888 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

the definite maybe

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:06 | 2475013 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

A2 has an agenda

________________________

Which is?

Which is the blobbing up of Chinese citizenism hobgoblinizing of prehistoric Easter Island algebraic coconuttery.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:39 | 2474607 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Many on this anonymous site think you are Chinese. Don't know why.

____________________________________

Quite simple. I admitted that China ended slavery and torture, and largely reduced the children abduction scheme as practiced in Tibet.

We had people who had no aim to freedom and finally delivered on it.

Compare to US citizens in all the places they control and went. And US citizens claim promoting freedom.

Facts in US citizenism has to be the result of group perception.

Therefore when one admits that China ended certain practises, one has to be a Chinese.

At start, I was also labelled an English because I admitted that the King enforced the Indian property rights contrary to the will of the settlers and that the King held his word to the black slaves who fought for him (contrary to US citizens) with the black loyalists.

The group is all for US citizens and admitting or silencing certain facts has to come from belonging to a certain group.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:53 | 2474623 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

At start, I was also labelled an English ...

 

English? Now why would I fidn that so hard to believe?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:38 | 2474871 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Three cheers. You have admitted you are not Chinese. Must sting to admit you are an American citizenista

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:54 | 2474948 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey A2 !

Facts in US citizenism has to be the result of group perception.

i just wrote about this to you;  i see you saying this, too, in a way

the group is subject to laws;  you may be able to work with a group to alter perceptions;  good preachers do it all the time and you ain't one

but an individual may be able to "firewall" himself from certain of these influences or free him/her-self from certain group laws

zH may about just the kinda thing you are pointing to, here, and this is fight club

but you seem to not understand:  no one is on trial!  for belonging or not belonging here;  this isn't the US. this is zH.  no one needs to admit a damned thing or be silent;  we can choose what we do and what we say and write

if the US doesn't like it, they probably know where to find us!

and that's not uncommon in america, tho not as common as many would like, old sport

sunrise bike time~seeYa

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 10:27 | 2475436 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Me likes the pi-rat. Nice stuff. 

If freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, what happens just before that point?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 11:12 | 2475665 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

MsCreant asked:

If freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, what happens just before that point?

Bankrupture.

 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 12:03 | 2475916 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

individuation is a group process?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:21 | 2474401 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

In my small place in the world no one can 'RIP' for more than a few years. They dig you up and then pound the bones on the pavement to make room for the new tenants of sacred places. A bit disturbing when you walk your kids to school past the bone crushing, but perhaps it is a lesson about life/death and the ubiquitious taxes. RIP all those who know no rest.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:47 | 2474419 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

paste:

The logic behind such an unspeakable horror is that medical science didn’t advance very much until the 1800s, and what we know today as a coma could have easily been misdiagnosed at the time as outright death.

now, people who are tying to help another find his or her way can rely on NIH's bigFuking5 and absolutely insure that they will both fall into a pit

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 06:03 | 2474450 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Sick man of Europe gets American financial sickness bigtime; thats part of having been saved by uber alles America when it was healthy and when Europe was even sicker than now; sixty seven years back. How the memory thread gets diluted in the knee jerk of HERE AND NOW, THE NEW SICKNESS OF CIVILIZATION, obsessed by the moment. Leonardo da Vinci had a great line to parody this ephemeral and existential mindset of Man : What is now is already past and what is coming has not happened.

We are suspended in limbo and incapable of stringing together the thread of events. This article confuses, in the current hubris of denial of civilization's materialistic folly, the underlying problem : its not whether central planning or individual economic initiative is good or bad, its deeper than that.

We've been living off a free lunch at the expense of Mother Nature, since the Industrial revolution began. We have created a mindset of a perpetual labour arbitrage machine, another way of saying outsourced slave labour, to feed an industrial machine fueled by financial sleight of hand and the belief that uber-alles America has now created a self perpetuating Empire. Everybody HAS to be on that page in this world or be branded as reactionary heretic. That is the underlying MAntra of Reaganomics and NWO. And its exploded in our faces, not ONLY because of the PONZI financial sickness, but also because we are in denial about more fundamental issues beyond our own collective capabilties as humans : Mother Earth is running out of its goodies to feed our mad train of life. We have made our own ecosystem very fragile, and it is getting irreversible NOW. 

So the solution is not back to the OLD normal of the 1990s when America SEEMED healthy and was carrying the torch; its deeper than that. You would have us believe we could be back there if ONLY Europe would pull its finger out now.  Its a mindset change that questions the very way we live in this hyperconsumption model which is unsustainable. This sickness is not JUST European or American; its CIVILIZATIONAL and its gonna take a HUGE step back before we can move forward once more. On the real issue facing the first world, the correct diagnosis is solving PRIVATE SECTOR debt in first world and the corrupting influence of concentration of power in the hands of 0.1 % percent of Oligopolisitic world population; not its surrogate ponzied debt in public sector. This is secondary. But addressing this issue is itself addressing the core way of life of our American inspired civilization, which is now a totally "runaway" train model that nobody can control. Its illusory to think we can solve this thing with "business as usual" type thinking. No way. Its not the real issue. Our collective decision makers in global matters are in denial of the real issues and bow to the wrong Gods of materialistic perpetual growth and elitist greedy mindset, both of which are unsustainable. What is coming has not happened...The current structural world imbalance and the reserve currency status of USD/EURO duopole is an expression of hubristic thinking gone viral. 

We have to rethink our whole way of interfacing with Mother Earth. Our ecosystem is in danger and we must use the current sickness to rethink our whole collective existence as a species. 

No easy way out; innovation and mindset change is the route to Renaissance. We will get there but we may have to sink much lower before that truth sinks into our minds in a way that we can see the wood from the trees.

In the meantime civilizations fall and others rise, as hubristic MAn is often incapable of seeing the coming tide. He is all-in to defend his previous mindset. Stuck in a blind alley. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 12:36 | 2476089 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

xlnt vintage again, f_p

woody, fruity, lo bequerel (some parts of france still have fairly lo leukemia rates for kids), and quite effective

not too pricey either yet

i want some brie!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:20 | 2474484 MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

... This particular Durden has made a mistake.  The doctors, in this particular analogy, I'm assuming, are supposedly trying to save lives.  Whether or not they are successful, TRYING TO SAVE, is the key point.  The financial policy makers of the ECB, the various World Banks and financial institutions, and Europe's various central banks, are CLEARLY NOT TRYING TO SAVE, Europe...  So the analogy is completely worthless.  ADDING MOOOAR DEBT TO DEBT, is like giving pcp to a dust addict b/c he just ate someone's face off, while they were fucking alive, and you are goddamn afraid of what he'll do when he's not lit anymore...  The only problem?  WE, are like the small little critters living on the angel dust freaks... so if they OD, we're all screwed.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:24 | 2474668 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

the referenced article by Gary Taubes was very worth the read.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 13:29 | 2476386 Jena
Jena's picture

agreed

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:28 | 2474680 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


"On Europe's Economic Malpractice, Misdiagnosis, And Biased Maltreatment"

plus...

mal-investment

mis-direction

meddling

mangled

muck-spreading

morons

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:57 | 2474746 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Zero Govt

Kinda off topic .. But you called this one last a few post back 

The IMF chief Christine Lagarde was accused of hypocrisy yesterday after it emerged that she pays no income tax – just days after blaming the Greeks for causing their financial peril by dodging their own bills.

 

It was called her "Let them eat cake" moment. Now Greece will be saying: "Make her pay tax".

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:27 | 2474835 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Hey, this guy Zero Govt believes in ZERO taxes. So Lagarde and Greece as respectively the IDEAL Oligarch and nation state for him. 

If you truly believe in Zero Govt, then you Love an Oligarch like Lagarde and a country like Greece in their current states. Nothing more need be said...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:02 | 2474981 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Nothing more need be said...' except that the few sane ones left here have dealt with with childish 'argument' repeatedly sending these pranksters back to the drawing board. Thirty years of propaganda has created an army of suicidal half-wits.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:33 | 2474687 boa74520
boa74520's picture

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Wed, 05/30/2012 - 07:33 | 2474689 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

The economic malpractice is much simpler than all that. The EU elites are not trying to fix the EU's economy (though they may truly believe they are); they are trying to preserve their power and positions by preserving and expanding the EU. Their own personal biases just lead them to believe those two goals are compatable.

The same is true of the various national elites -- they are not trying to fix their nation's economies; they are trying to preserve their nation's status quo and social welfare complex, and thereby again preserve their own power and positions.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:51 | 2474919 thurstjo63
thurstjo63's picture

The more interesting point is that whether it is medical malpractice or economic malpractice, there are deep seed flaws that have led to the present situation where in healthcare costs are constantly rising at levels well above inflation, or in terms of economic malpractice, the costs for their attempts to "repair" the system are constantly rising as well. In the medical field, where competition has been emasculated by governments, not that the predominant paragdigm doesn't even consider the individual from a holistic perspective. There are never any questions about nutrition, lifestyle, etc that would inform the diagnosis, nor is there any choice in the type of medicine that one can use within the government mandated paradigm that in many cases would provide a more comprehensive solution to the problem at a cheaper cost (i.e. the most egregious example of this is in the cancer field, where every real treatment for cancer has been suppressed so that the gravy train of $100-200k treatments with radio or chemotherapy can continue while at the same time convincing people to continue to fund "cancer research" - as though they don't know enough about cancer cells to eliminate them in an non-invasive manner!?!). 

In terms of economic malpractice, you have a similar situation where all the main parties hold similar flawed beliefs about how the economy functions. Symptoms are viewed as causes, while causes are ignored. The most obvious example is inflation (i.e. an increase in the money supply - classic definition). Note how the modern definition (i.e. a general increase in prices) was previously viewed as a possible symptom of inflation since it is difficult to impossible to determine how the increased money will flow through the economy. Now you have hordes of economist (excluding the Austrian School - bless them!) who believe it is perfectly acceptable to print money with the belief that this will resolve all of the ills we orginally have from printing money!?! 

These two beliefs have served a small elite (pharmaceutical, banks, politicians) of the population very well. While leaving the rest of the population struggling to maintain a decent standard of living. But then who funds and controls the education system? Why primarily the same elite who benefits from the existing set of beliefs!

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