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The Ever-Increasing Age Of Retirement
Americans work harder longer than any European nation aside from Spain. France, on the other hand, does not - with a retirement age five years earlier than the US (and only bested by the island of Malta). Over the long-term, Italy appears to be the worst case at 69 years (but in Italy-work-years this is only 51 years since they vacation three months per year). As the Washington Post points out most of the European nations (including Germany) are set to see their retirement ages raised in "a dramatic rewrite of the continent’s postwar social compact" highlighting that "measures that keep people working longer could prove one of the most significant social legacies of the debt crisis." But even then they only catch up to the American worker. Of course, the sad reality is that as workers get older, that retirement age will extend further and further away.
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Europe is burning, China slowing down, US is in the toilet, Joblessness is rampant, millions are under water on their largest asset AND YET
on Yahoo List of most popular searches shows:
1) Molly Cyrus New Tattoo
2) Kourtney Khardashian (Who???)
3) Jessica Biel
4) Daniel Tosh (Who?)
5) Kate Upton (Who?)
This country is so screwed!!!
amen,,,,,
"Ever increasing age of retirement."
This is what happens when you let government manage the reirement system.
Yeah, those corporate retirement plans are so much more reliable. Now where did mine go? They told me it would be there...
Keep in mind that the corporate retirement plans and the government pension plans are generally invested in the same theft vehicles. So all in all, the shit items are just warpped differently.
I manage my own retirement and put the money in gold and silver inverstment so that I have my hard-earned money safe-guarded for retirement.
See retirement is a private thing. Only you yourself know what you want, your career goal, your health condition, your family's fiscal status and so on. Letting someone else w/ less knowledge to manage it for you is taking a risk. I don't trust the government b/c they manage everything into insolvency. I don't trust big corps either b/c who can guarantee they can stay in the business forever.
too bad you can t get employer match 25% or whatever on phyz instead of 401K contrubutions huh?
Google Kate Upton, You will not be disappointed.
or just click here....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hWlRJHCqs
OH snap!
This "Ever increasing age of retirement." topic is a scam!
This new shtic meme is to brainwash/promote to really old people who are collecting government benefits and pensions, calling on them to continue going to work and take low wage jobs, because they don't need company health insurance they get the job over a younger person easier, and in order to keep wages low because illegal aliens aren't flooding the country anymore for lack of work, and due to e-verify.(run on sentence)
The bottom line is; They want to steal jobs from younger people who have families to feed, in order to keep profits up.
We should be promoting, asking older people to take retirement as soon as possible so younger people can have a shot at a job and earn money for their families.
"We should be promoting, asking older people to take retirement as soon as possible so younger people can have a shot at a job and earn money for their families. "
We need the older workers to keep the lights on. Young people are too focused on Face book and other social media to get the job done. You think companies are retaining older workers who cost more (high wages, higher health insurance) because its good for there bottom line? Once the older workers are gone, companies will just outsource their jobs overseas (Asia), where the workers are more focused.
BTW: more than often the older folks bailout their childeren by paying for there education, co-signing car/home loans, and helping them financially. That's why they can't retire.
We should have social security and medicare deferred/stripped or heavily taxed if someone works over age 67 earning over 200% more than their government benefits package. Old people can work doing all the volunteer free work they want without penalty.
"We should have social security and medicare deferred/stripped or heavily taxed if someone works over age 67"
SS and Medicare are "Manditory Retirement Savings accounts". OK if they also take YOUR401K and other retirement savings? What if the boomers didn't have to put money into SS and saved 15.4% of their income for retirement instead? Did they have a way to opt out?
The majority have no savings too fall back on (see early post about giving money to kids, and to a lesser degree, help there parents). They work because they don't have a choice. 50% of workers over 55 have under 50K saved. 50K will last 5 years or less (considering health insurance and living costs, not including a medical emergency or some major event). Once they leave the workforce its virtually impossible to get another job.
BTW more than often, kids (read: middle aged) bail out their parents (read: elderly) too, like when that retirement 2nd home they bought (prices will never go down!) goes underwater!
The more you know!
You might want to do a google image search on #5
Kate Upton does Cat Daddy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hWlRJHCqs
Youre VERY welcome!
After watching that I agree with Clueless Economist, Yahoo List of most popular searches proves the country is completely screwed, Kate Upton should clearly be #1.
Pretty. But the creepy guy made me turn it right off.
Still not worth losing retirement over.
Judging by the amount of dress she can afford we are clearly in an economic depression.
Or just go to WWTDD.com What WOULD Tyler Durden Do . com
http://www.wwtdd.com/2012/06/theres-finally-better-kate-upton-gq-pictures/
video is in order.. image doesn't do justice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frCMS7PPg2g&feature=watch_response
Incredible, gravity-defying, shamelessly awesome, how do those puppies stay in the hammock?!
pure talent.... I want her to serve milk shakes at my next pool party
amen brother - I'll take 1 outta 5 if that 1 is kate upton
Thanks; Now I really feel my age (old),
What's a Khardashian?
Fugly, but rich. The mother's the best looking one of the lot, and Bruce Jenner looks like an old lesbian.
Synonimous for whore!
What's a Khardashian?
A very Expensive sweater...........
Tosh is a hipster-doofus. I liked his show better when it was called The Soup.
daniel tosh is funny
kate upton is hot
not sure what the claim to fame of the others is
In the crisis in Oct 08 in i was looking for information on the BBC website and the main story was about some UFO's skipping around over London and how some US fighter pilot had fired at some aliens a while back.
If by chance the general public happens to be interested in economic matters or politics it seems to be rather easy to distract them with some silly stories, the more absurd the better.
Fuck old people.
- John Corzine
1) lame
2) lame
3) totally legit
4) he's funny
5) totally legit
Who is using Yahoo search anyway? They stopped being important a decade ago.
Two things:
1) To retire you probably need a (real) job to retire from.
2) Does this mean I won't be able to retire until after I am dead?
Hey what ever happen to Andy Griffth ,I thought he was #1 ......damn not even 15 min of fame anymore .....
Andy also had more talent in his little finger than these "so-called celebrity" imbeciles have in their whole body.
Are you sure you've properly inspected every inch of Kate Upton's body to be sure of her amount of talent?
Americans work harder longer than any European nation aside from Spain
I think you should have left the harder in,1 person now is doing the work of a min of 2,usually 3.
And the hours have gone up,if your full time.
Less pay for more work, and decreased benefits, is now the norm,IF you want to keep your job.
If women live longer, why do they retire earlier in those four countries?
Some animals are more equal than others.
The hypocrisy of the ERA.
ZeroHedge on Bloomberg, nice chart talking heads!
Very poor analysis on Bloomberg of the chart. Instead of concluding that it shows clear manipulation of the market (or at least support) by Fed policy, the idiot said it was data mining.
Half the guests on TV are idiots.
Naw, you just had to think ahead. I went and got me a public sector job at 47 and retired at 58. Its just the private sector workers who won't get to retire. Now get back to work so you can pay my pension.
lol if this insn't sarc, then you better hope you die soon...that public pension ain't gonna be there in 10 years.
Its not that much but the important thing was the medical coverage. In two years I'll start getting my social security and in 5 medicare. If my municipal pension goes tits up well I drank from the well before it went dry. I told my co workers they should get while the getting was good but their 'pension' was all they had and they really believed they will get 60 or more percent of their final salary after 30 years.
Shh! Don't talk about the public pensions! You'll frighten the sheep!
/Corzined!
UK Public Sector "Rule of 34" means your age when starting work for THE STATE + 34 = Age of Retirement; so start at 18 and retire at 52 on Index-Linked Pension often Non-Contributory
The real gem is that Men die young so raising the age means men die in work on unemployed but lots of Widows live for 20 years plus as pensioners either on taxpayer funds or husband contributions
You got that right. Although, your pension could get "confiscated" too. Someday, you won't be able to tell the difference between the workers and the dead. Unless the dead fall on the floor....
I just had to think ahead and been born 20 years earlier! Schmuck.
sangell is right (I'm sorry to say). Read "When Money Dies" byAdam Fergusson.
He describes what happened to whom and public employees did much better relative to self-semployed private sector folks.
Here is the FREE pdf (Thank you!) if you can't buy the Amazon copy.
http://www.goldonomic.com/When%20Money%20Dies.pdf
" Over the long-term, Italy appears to be the worst case at 69 years (but in Italy-work-years this is only 51 years since they vacation three months per year)."
Does this include week-ends as "vacations?" If yes, don't you think it is a little misleading as in disinformation?
Don't think so. My wife and I were just talking about this topic this morning. She works for a Fortune 500 company and deals with people in Europe. She says they are gone weeks at a time on "vacation". They don't like it if they call her and find out she's on vacation though. WORK SLAVE WORK!!
They get an incredible amount of "holidays" over there.
These are secular countries where hardly anyone goes to church, but they still get off on relatively minor religious feast days like Ascension Thursday and Pentecost (among others). Heck, in France they even get a day off for VE Day on May 7th. In Italy and France it is often amazingly difficult to find shops that are open outside of the major tourist cities.
This is a very good idea. Why wait till you are decrepit to have some time off.
Sadly, many places in US if you actually try to use your 2 weeks vacation you put your job in danger.
Thats because you have to work more so some fat slob can get an EBT card. BACK TO WORK SLAVE.......NOW!!
Not in the public sector
/Wooooooooooooooooo 3 weeks vacay? No problemo
Going to move back to a pre-WW2 world where most worked until they either dropped dead or they were physically or mentally incapable of working. Since most people began to experience real physical/mental declines starting in their late 60s/early 70s, there are a lot of people who are either going to have family rely upon them (families already provide about ~80% of the care for elderly members from a $ perspective) or had the sense to purchase LTC insurance. If not, there future is going to be quite grim.
Maybe a high speed rail could fix it
A high-speed guillotine.
Of course, PanEuropean high speed rail from Spain to Urals. Costing at least 500 billions will be perfect solution to unemployment and income loss.
Actually, a global pandemic that brings the population back down to 5 bil would do wonders for pension systems.
If the oldsters keep working where will the youngsters find jobs
Labor is always scarce compared to material factors of production. There are always unused material factors of production, for example land, equipment, and factories.
And unhampered markets tend toward full employment.
Too bad you live in USSA...
If so, they do it the US citizen way: by not reporting about employment or by reporting any kind of activity as a job.
Hence full employment of any member of a society.
Calling saturation, as US citizenism expansionist feature, has to, only begets one outcome: stagnation, plateau, peak. Downward to the other side.
US citizenism can no longer stand on its own, it cant be debated from within, it needs an exterior to divert attention from its intrinsic lack of consistency.
The life expectancy has increased dramatically since the social security programs were started. Thus is it only reasonable that retirement ages increase proportionately to the life expectancy.
Not if I have to work until I am 70 when granny only had to work until 62. Seniors today are the ones who are taking out WAY WAY more in benefits than they EVER put into it. And granny will get her benefits. Me? I'll be lucky to get mine. They will either keep moving the finish line away from me, or they will pay me, with INFLATED worthless dollars.
Who on earth thinks giving the gubbamint a dollar now to get 75 cents back when they retire is a good deal, is beyond me. But the sheep clamor for their social programs. If I could let them have everything I have put into the system to this point in exchange for opting out and taking care of myself, I would do it in a hearbeat.
Amen! But Alan Greenspan shed some interesting light on this US "retirement" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSLtC62RG0 - "We can guarantee cash benfits as far out as the eye can see and whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power."
The fucks that defend the New Steal...I mean Deal, refuse to acknowledge the idea that the promises made back then are, and have always been, a moving promise. Sure it can be justified by this point and that (people living longer, etc.), but the truth of the original promises NEVER being able to be kept by governmental institutions is the key point, I believe, of this whole retirement age thing.
They sweeten the pot of fascism under the guise of socialism, with a dash of never will be folded in.
but the truth of the original promises NEVER being able to be kept by governmental institutions is the key point, I believe, of this whole retirement age thing.
Dr. Head, the problem is the FUND would have multiple surplus billions/trillions in it,IF the Congress had kept their paws out of it,and thank LBJ for that.
Even Congress is not so stupid not to have realized the coming tsunami of boomers 30 yrs ago.
Also, there are just as many new people coming into the system as there are that are retiring.(now all they need is someone that ACTUALLY) wants to grow the economy,and not destroy it.
The median net worth of the American family fell by almost 40 percent between 2007 and 2010, according to the Federal Reserve report released on Monday.
The drop between 2007 and 2010 wipes out 18 years of economic progress for Americans in the middle of the income distribution, taking the median household net worth to levels not seen since the early 1990s.
http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/middle-class-wipeout-median-hous...
On the bright side, Dancing with the Idols is on tonight.....followed by Balloon Boy re-runs.....all 18 hours worth.
You know, when you empower yourself, when you create yourself by stealing right, left and center as the US citizen middle class has, at one moment, you are stuck with having nothing left to steal from a non US citizen middle class member.
You have to steal from your peers to maintain yourself.
US citizen style.
We touched on this unrealistic increase in retirement age here. It's crazy to think 65+ people will be able to be doing the jobs they did in their 40's or 50's. There's already the stigma of "old" workers.
And if they try to work at Home Depot, etc they will be competing with new young college grads who can't find anything better.
>It's crazy to think 65+ people will be able to be doing the jobs they did in their 40's or 50's
Over 200 years ago:
"Euler later suffered a cataract in his good left eye, rendering him almost totally blind a few weeks after its discovery in 1766 [aged 59].. With the aid of his scribes, Euler's productivity on many areas of study actually increased. He produced on average one mathematical paper every week in the year 1775 [aged 68]." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler
Notice my use of the plural form of person. Sure, will some people be able? Yes. Will all people be able? No. I'm happy for Mr. Euler, but the reality of pension-needs is different for each person and could vary greatly from a genius like Euler.
No doubt that within a decade retirement age will be up to 70 for people my age. It is going to come down to showdown between Gen X/Gen Y and the Boomers in the US before 2020. Probably sooner if we keep up these anemic growth rates. Neither party wants to deal with the wrath of Boomers though and no one is really talking about substantial benefit cuts to anyone currently over 55. Medicaid block grants will hurt seniors (largest Medicaid expense is assisted living services for elderly) but no where near as much as if Medicare were really cut back.
I wouldn't be banking too heavily on any guaranteed retirement income beyond five years. The gov't will fuck that up for you. Perhaps that 100 trillion in total debt or negative interest rates will save the day. In related news...
Today I am reading about Google's 22 million dollar fine for violating privacy rights. Accomplished by tracking pageviews after disabling the Apple browser privacy settings. The real victims of course, people like you and I...won't get jack shit. How long are we going to allow gov't to extort money on behalf of us "citizen victims?"And keep it? Fuckers. http://thecivillibertarian.blogspot.com/2012/07/govt-extorts-23-mill-on-...
Indefinitely.
Yes it's extremely annoying
But scans as Haiku!
Most people in their late 60s and especially early 70s can't hold the a full-time job and perform at an acceptable productivity level. This isn't an idealogoical stance. It is a biological fact.
The point is removing benefits but not saying you are removing benefits. "We're just moving the age out" is better than "no soup for you" but it is really the same thing in the end. Also, a lot more people will die before they reach the higher age, and the people in charge have already done the math on that.
"late 60s and especially early 70s" You are talking about me, and you are right. But I still vote, and can hit a clay with my shotgun.
Sorry to hear that you're having difficulties.
I reommend a healthy diet and an exercise program
Hope it works out for you!
See, that's not exactly true for the US.
What the chart above most likely neglects to include are the retirement ages of US; state (including teachers and school administrators), federal (including military) and local government employees and especially those who do not contribute to Social Security and are paid out of taxpayer funded defined benefit pension plans.
My guess is that if the goverment employees were factored in, the US would be comparable to Malta.
Exactly right! I have a friend who did a few years in the armed forces, and fed work. He just retired, buying back his mil time. He retired at 52 with FULL benefits, SS, etc.
David Rockefeller wants that last drop of blood.
With 10 year Treasuries yielding 1.50% THERE IS NO RETIREMENT for anyone but the very, very wealthy. Retirement for everyone else is a pipedream because there is NO WAY TO FUND IT.
Exactly! I was in a credit union the other day and was shocked to see that savings rates were .05%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF? You can't make money, with your money, unless you have a lot of money, as in tens of millions. One, two, even five hundred thousand isn't dick anymore...
Americans that work work harder/longer than almost everyone else in the world. There's a key distinction there that is missing.
Apparently they work dumber.
No, not dumber. There are just more clever people devising ways to steal from them.
Idea: Instead of letting the government authority tell you when you can retire, get off your asses, build something meaningful for you and yours, and then retire when you feel comfortable. Oh, that would make you less dependant on the government though wouldn't it, and we all know that won't be allowed - those power happy fucks will just tax the shit out of you until you once again become dependant on the government authority. Socialism + fascism is a sick joke on humanity. Wake the fuck up people!
Agreed. As much as I hate our .gov oppression, we still have to be clever enough to thwart what is down the pike. If that means a remarkable amount of blood, sweat and tears then so be it.
That idea doesn't scale.
What should they build? starting a small business in the current economic climate is a huge risk which may deplete what savings you've managed to scratch together at your low paying job. Entry level jobs are unavailable in most fields where there are so many experienced unemployed bodies to fill vacancies. So what do you suggest besides homilies?
Agreed.
Ask 1000 people, 999 will say no, tha's a nonstarter. Why? Because - wait for it - wait for it - IT'S NOT FAAAAAIR! Virtually everyone who has had a job has been forced to contribute to these programs, and somewhat understandably, they want to get back what they have put in (as every retiree up until now has done, and then some).
Of course, it's a classic case of sunk-cost fallacy + risk aversion. They just don't get that the money simply won't be there when they go to retire and so it is already as good as gone - time to cut your losses and move on. It's a government run and enforced Ponzi scheme and no one wants to believe they're the poor late-comer who will get shafted when the charade ends. Reality has other ideas.
On the plus side the retirement age is better in all of those countries than it was in, say, 1512.
Retirement is a relatively new concept. I wonder how long it will last.
Yeah! Retirement is just a big ponzi scheme waiting for a collapse.
Retirement is a "sold to you" type concept for making money by banksters. It has always been that way.
Retirement has a long, full history spanning many cultures. Still you're right saying it's better today than it was.
I've got to retire early while I can still go the hard work of the Obama Age retiree: Gardening & hunting for my food, Bartering with my locals for home repairs, defence etc etc [Not an old mans job anymore]
And this will only worsen the youth unemplyment dilemma - old people work until they get even older = rampaging youth unemployment. Wich in spain's case is almost 50% now...
That is a very good point. The baby boomers (not that I have a problem with the greedy bastards) are hanging on to virtually everything of any value with an iron fisted grip. Greatest generation, indeed...yeah, so what does that make generations that follow? Way to build a future, thanks.
>The baby boomers (not that I have a problem with the greedy bastards) are hanging on to virtually everything of any value with an iron fisted grip
They're probably afraid of handing their legacy over to hordes of socialist parasites.
The phrase "greatest generation" was supposed to apply to the boomers' parents, the ones who survived the Depression and WW II. It was they, having survived such stresses, who went on to utterly spoil their children, aka Boomers. At least that's what I (a leading-edge boomer) told my father (1913-1997), and near the end of his life he actually came to see my point of view. Boomers were afforded the chance to remain juveniles throughout their lives, and many - unfortunately - grasped on and wouldn't let go of the entitlement attitude. They merely went from expecting freebies from Dad & Mom to expecting it from Uncle Sam.
So what does that make generations that follow? Might I suggest: suckers? bagholders? chumps?
>"greatest generation"... the ones who survived the Depression
You mean the tards that set up the Federal Reserve and destabilized the economy after the beasts known as the First and Second Banks of United States had been slain.
Right. So they are hanging on to jobs out of fear of having to subsist on cat food because the banksters screwed us all. Truly the bad guys here.
According to my most recent calculations, I may be able to retire when I'm 142.
One fix for social security...restore it so that retirement age is higher than life expectancy like it was when SS was passed.
When SS was passed, it was expected that you wouldn't get it. It wasn't an annuity to live off of in retirement. It was protection against living longer than life expectancy.
"One fix for social security...restore it so that retirement age is higher than life expectancy"
But the best fix is to shut the fucking thing down now.
There are plenty of private ways to plan for retirement.
retirement in France is based on the demographic pyramid, as its not private but government schemes based on generational solidarity, where the young pay for those leaving the professional circuit; as long as the demographics are balanced this is no problem. Now the baby boomers will eat all the resources of the young who will have to work longer in coming years in difficult times to meke out a retirement which will be less beneficial than their forebears. Sad but true.
Its time to review the retirement age in France, especially as we will live longer and fuck that much more. We should work harder for each extra bang! What say you?
I say automate it all and lets all retire already ... bring on the human level AI robots.
Celebrate devolution, Life Expectancy and Retirement will be synonyms before you know it.
"but in Italy-work-years this is only 51 years since they vacation three months per year"
Simply NOT True. (I see on my contract only 30 days of paid holidays)
Only 30, huh? My 12 years at one company netted me 15 days per year, but I'm sure I worked a sixth or seventh day in a week more often than that. USA!
They can keep increasing the age limits for government pensions ... but that doesn't mean the market will supply minimum wage jobs for the old and decrepit ... cause it won't.
The old and decrepit can keep doing the same jobs they've done for years. Their experience will make up for any loss of productivity in comparison with entry level employees. imo
"The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science"
written by an 81 year old.
http://mises.org/books/ultimate.pdf
acula, Youtube has a great Mises series. Here is Part I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulG5VRNycxY
The official retirement age is set such that most people will die as or before they reach pension. Ensuring that the government or insurers get to keep all the money paid in.
i.e. most of you will not live to collect.
I recommend you look at investments which will pay you an income now before you die rather than paying someone else after you die.
"The official retirement age is set such that most people will die as or before they reach pension."
That was true years ago when most people died in there late 60's or early 70's. That is why SS retirment date was originally set at 65. However, because of better eating, excersise, and healthcare people started living much longer, into thier late 70's.
"most of you will not live to collect"
That all depends how old you were. Currently there are 56 Million Americans collecting SS: http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/basicfact.htm/
So approximately 18.6% of the population is retireed and collecting retirement benefits.
However if you were born after 1959, the odds are receiving any retirement benefits are Zero since the rules will most certainly change and the US federal gov't will be long bankrupt before you can collect. Best option is to have a plan that does rely on entitlements and pensions. Owning a business that can provide steady income in your retirement years is probably the best option.
False.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
You are very special and talented and important and the remuneration you obtain through the market is "unfair", so just steal shit from others.
Especially, steal shit from minorities like successful people and the young and the unborn.
This chart assumes that the workforce will keep working. What if everyone was to just stop working. That would kinda force a global reset with haste.
I've read newspaper articles that say the first person to live to 150 is already born, which certainly seems plausible. If you don't raise the retirement age from 65, that would mean you'd have to bake the price of 85 years retirement support into every good or service, no? Which already seems implausible now, with a life span of about 80!
>the first person to live to 150 is already born
No.
>If you don't raise the retirement age from 65
Beg harder for the socialist masterminds to change the number.
LOL, I guess you'll never know they lied to you.
I keep reading that SS was created in such a way that people won't live long enough to collect. I'm old enough to collect if I choose to. My 99 year old MIL is still collectint. My late father collected from 65 till 84. My mother from 65 till 90. My ucle from 65 till 91, no need to go on, but I could cause the youngest in my extended family to die was 74. They say that we are going to live longer now. That's bullshit! The birth-death ratio is based on all ages and because of the improvement in infant survival, it raises that number. The truth is that people who survived years ago got to live a very long time. Just look at the people who recently died like Andy Griffith, and Earnest Borgnine. The propaganda put out is propaganda guys.
The Netherlands yesterday raised the government retirement age to 67. I don't think that that is a solution. This will keep young people from entering the labor market in the first place. Secondly, it is also an illusion to think that you can keep old people employed that long. If someone over 55 loses his/her job then chances are low that they will ever be employed again. Currently there are 3 working people to support one retiree in NL and the pension funds are underperforming, an unsustainable situation. As part of the solution I think that people with higher pensions need to take a haircut. These babyboomers with their high pensions need to contribute. They profited from the previous generations building up the country after WWII, then they spat on them in 1968 and after that landed themselves nice cushy jobs with high salaries and now they expect younger generations to foot the bill for their high pensions. Not every retiree of course is a babyboomer with a high pension but the ones who are need to take a haircut.