"Every Former MF Global Account Faces A Margin Call" - Non-CME MF Global Transfers Get The Monday Blues
If you are a former MF Global account and you have your account transferred over to RJ O'Brien, or many others, you will have no choice but to fork out a bunch of cash to keep positions on, according to a statement awaiting all such accounts on the RJO website, or else be next in line for broad liquidations. To wit: "Former MF Global customers transferred to R.J. O’Brien were delivered with approximately 75% of the maintenance margin requirement related to their accounts. As a result, every former MF Global account faces a margin call. No excess equity was transferred." Naturally the next question is "Why are we not getting 100% of our MMR (Maintenance Margin) from the exchange?" And the answer: "This is an agreement between the trustee and CME Group. Please visit www.mfglobaltrustee.com for further information or questions." So, in addition to lowering initial margin for everyone, not just MF Global clients, did the CME iron out preferential terms over other exchanges and get larger equity of the account transfer than most? Because somehow we doubt that RJ O'Brien is the only exchange that is greeting their clients with this particular notice.
Full FAQ for All R.J. O'Brien customers:
| #fddfde; border: 1px solid #fbc7c6; padding: 10px;" colspan="2">
R.J. O’Brien Margin Policy Update for Former MF Global Customers Former MF Global customers transferred to R.J. O’Brien were All former MF Global customers must wire R.J. O’Brien additional If the account did not contain a trading position, former MF All Margin Calls Must Be Met By Wire Former MF Global customers will need to begin initiating payment
Harris Bank, Chicago IL If funds are not received by the close of After your account has been properly margined, the regular R.J. O’Brien margin policy will be in effect.
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Who is now clearing my account?
When will I be able to trade my account?
How do I log in? Will I see my positions?
What if there are discrepancies with my account balance or transferred positions?
Has my account number changed?
What numbers do I call or night or day order entry?
What exactly moved over from my position at MF Global?
Will positions on international exchanges move to RJO?
What If I did not have positions on, only cash?
Can I trade open outcry markets?
Where do I get my quotes and charts?
Who should I contact about receiving the cash in my account that did not transfer?
If I go on margin call because my entire account balance did not transfer, what do I do?
Why are we not getting 100% of our MMR (Maintenance Margin) from the exchange?
What happens if I had an account at R.J. O’Brien and MF Global?
Will my commission structure change?
How do I access my statement?
I want to close my account and/or transfer to another broker.
I have a broker-assisted account. Can I still trade with my current market strategist?
What if I have a deliverable position?
How long do I have to meet my margin requirement?
How do I send money to my RJO account?
RJO Treasury Department
United States Dollar-Customer Segregated, Fed wire instructions: What are the wire cut-off times?
Can you accept checks made out to MF Global?
Do you accept ACH deposits from clients?
I’m a Schwab at MF Global client. Can I still do an internal transfer between my futures and equity Schwab account?
Who do I contact with questions about my Schwab at MF Global account?
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Jumping jmminy! Great post!
Margin call, bitchez.
Hey Lennon Hendrix, you are clearly a fucking moron
As a non US based customer of MF I have been unable to close out any positions since the week before last, so, I now have not only the potentially high liability of my positions going against me, but I could lose money as the firm margin calls me or "may" get closed out at a later date, but who knows ? It looks like US based customers (by virtue of having their accounts transferred to other brokers) will at least get the opportunity to close out positions .... something I do not have.
Fuck you Corzine you fucking cunt. And fuck you CME for not only destroying the integrity of one of the oldest markets in existence but by preserving some clients ahead of others by preferential deal swith the trustee.
And to all the arseholes like Lennon Hendrix who have the "intellect" to post things such as "Margin call , bitchez" ..... an especially big fuck you too. You are either on the same side as the kleptocrats and hence you are applauding their efforts with your posts or you are just an immature fuckstick.
I assure you the rapping is universal. only the most well connected are getting covered. do not be divided by the differing levels of injustice. you choose to play the game and the rules got change. what the hell did you expect to happen? you expected a fair playing field. you expected contracts to be honored? the hunt brother never tried to corner the market. CME raised margins multiple time in several days and implemented a no-rollover a the end of the month. you see there is an inner circle . and anytime a member has a problem and the pain can be pushed to the non inner members. the rules are changed. THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.
edit:
How many players? enter ZERO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo (yes it is that reference to Wargames. GD word used if that constitutes NSFW)
I agree 110%. A fool and his money are soon parted. Anyone still in this market will either win big or lose bigger. Aus, you rolled the dice and you lost so don't expect any sympathies around here. We've been talking about MF going tits up for weeks at the TF before they did anyway so if you missed the opportunity to cash out then that's on you. I feel your pain but you fucked up plain and simple. Rules do not apply to these people because we allow them to get away with it. As I have said numerous times before, that will continue happening until it doesn't and the people get sick of being fleeced. GL with closing your positions mate.
Truth aus_punter. What these knuckleheads don't realize, and what those of us with an international account exposure have suffered (including Lehman bk), is bankruptcy laws vary insanely from country to country. Once a BK arrives, just because you dealt with a US-based company does not mean that you will be treated under US bankruptcy protections. And, what looks like goo-less ass stabbing, is simply a function of the Trustee fucking everyone they can to keep the US complaints to a minimum. Without knowing your situation, I'm sure it's brutal. Asswipes that have a $100k in some account and buy gold etfs have no lot in life commenting on people that make their livlihood as traders. If I were you, I would call either ADM or RJO and see if they can work something out with you. Both firms are capable of understanding your lock out dillema and hopefully can work with you on some cross-margin deal until liquidation becomes a possibility. This whole thing is a fucking train wreck. Don't let the little douchebags that haven't lost real money get under your skin. When shit like this happens, even veteran traders can and do (well, at least it's happened to me) lose their cool. Find a real FCM to help you get neutral so frustration won't compound the nightmare. Best-
i'll just leave this here.
Quit whining like a little bitch. YOU were the one that put your fortune and faith in paper. YOU were the one that trusted the banks even after everything you read here.
With any luck you still have some wealth left but take responsibility for YOUR bad decision/call.
do you know my positions ? no
do you know my situation ? no
do I take advice from a blog populated by people I don't know nor will ever meet ? no
do judgemental peole like you annoy the fuck out of me ? yes
now go fuck yourself
"do I take advice from a blog populated by people I don't know nor will ever meet ? no"
Hence why your anger would be better directed at the "fucking moron" you DID take advice from...
You've been on zh for over 2 years. MF's been in near free-fall since early August.
And while we're on the subject of "immature fucksticks"....
indeed.
Do we know your positons? Yes. Paper bullshit. You were warned, but you ignored those warnings.
What happened to you is terrible, but you were warned. You chose to play in paper, knowing full well the extent of the corruption, and now you will pay the price.
Let ALL others learn from this mistake. I have been totally out of paper for almost two years because I hated the manipulation I was seeing, and wanted no part of it. It was clear to me back shortly after the start of QEI that this would all end very, very badly.
Sorry to be "judgemental" or to say "I told you so", but people need to know that there is a real, viable alternative out there. No-one gets margin calls on physical metal.
"Sorry to be "judgemental" or to say "I told you so"
Say it - SAY IT!!!
There's nothing like the smell of Schadenfruend in the morning...
I feel kinda bad for aus_punt and others, but that's a funny post on several levels. One for the intended use of schadenfreude, and another for inventing a new German word meaning 'harm to your friend'
Whether this trader had notice or not, you can't expect to have notice of impending doom in this market. We have here a perfect example of why you should not trade this market, especially with money you cannot afford to lose. You can't protect yourself from corruption. They can change the rules on you at any time, and will do so when it benefits their cronies and hurts you.
Those of you who are left with paper positons, heed the wise advice of Tmosley and get out. There aren't any markets anymore, just train wrecks with gamblers standing on the tracks rummaging through the strewn luggage and hoping another train isn't coming.
First they stick it in, then they break it off!
Glad I bailed out in March, 2010!
Let me have a stab at answering your questions.
do you know my positions ?- They're all based on bullshit
do you know my situation ? - Dire
do I take advice from a blog populated by people I don't know nor will ever meet ? - No, you take advice from people you trust.
I think it's time to re-evaluate your 'friends'
do judgemental peole like you annoy the fuck out of me ? - because indifference is a good quality???
now go fuck yourself - Physically impossible, I tried it once, ended up in casualty with a very embarassing case of 'over-stretched dick'.
I hope that answers your questions fully. I would advise you read Zero Hedge for the advance notice of the next 'victim' of the crisis.
I hear it begins with 'J' - those who are most adamant and insistent about their security - are the ones least secure.
You fucking gambled on the 'system' - it's all your own fault you dick.
Didn't you read the small print?
"Your investments are as much subject to corruption as anyone else's"
Go Lennon Hendrix - these 'winnners' can only sing when they're winning - and you just proved it. They can only win by hagning onto the coattails of the riggers - and doesn't it show.
Hey guys. You will all feel the same way when you find out your 401k or pension plan was using MF Global. Ease up. We all have paper exposure somewhere.
I have neither, and if I had, I would have cashed it out long ago, just as I have encouraged everyone who will listen to.
My only paper exposure is my job, which I don't need to survive, due to my rather stunning amount of savings. I keep doing it because I can still buy more silver and pay the bills with the salary. As soon as that is no longer the case (ie I can't buy at least a certain pre-determinned amount of silver each month), I will quit and spend my time accumulating capital at home.
Still, no point kicking the man while he is down. We are not JPM or The Squid. It is enough that people will begin to believe you now and move into the only physical medium of wealth that can be stored at home, out of the system, without rotting or renting a warehouse.
The point is NOT to kick him while he is down. The point is to use this as a teachable moment, to get more people straight the fuck out of paper before the same thing happens to them.
Word, word, and word. Absolutely friggin A.
I have no pension - the only paper 'gamble' I have is
a) Petty Cash (unavoidable as it's still used as tender by grocery stores)
b) $5k in a Commdity fund - which has already been labelled as 'throw away money' - as it would if I put it on a horse
Everything else is physical Gold, property or LEAD.
Of course I'm no genius - I just read ZH - and now I'm buying popcorn to sit back and watch the end of the movie.
It's a shame those who did not listen now cry and wail about how unfair it all is.
Did Lehmans teach them NOTHING?
dupe
Not here. I don't play this market, keep minimal balances at the banks for electronic funds payments and put the rest of my admittedly limited wealth in things I have complete control over. Metals, foods, appreciating items.
That poor bastard's loss above us in this thread is just another object lesson:
If you don't HOLD it, you don't OWN it.
So if the players in the systems are corrupt then we should just accept our fate and let them screw us over.
I think not the system needs to be cleansed ( as in it needs a good douching ), let's start by removing all of the current Congress. In fact we should have a special election of the entire Senate at once instead of the rolling bs they have now, just like the House.
The squids progeny gives you the gift that keeps on giving.
Maybe we should think about cleaning all these fuckers ( ex squidies ) from public life. We could start with Gensler, since he was in charge of regulating MF Global this he is to blame as much as anyone.
This is the fox watching the henhouse http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-05/gensler-said-to-recuse-from-mf-...
Hey Aus_Punter, I am sorry for the treatment you received from the CME. I would caution you and any other outsiders to stay clear of the CME, they are a corrupt organization which became evident months ago with their hiking of margin calls while Gold was selling off to help this entirely corrupt banking system manipulate Gold prices lower. That was the first warning and you should have been wise enough to see the US under Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Obama, Geithner and Bernanke cannot be trusted, get out while you can and do business in a country with some integrity, we have none anymore this is a country led by trash and the American people are finally waking up to what the rest of the world has known for a long time.
Cracked another.
Two words -- taxpayer TARP -- you internationals are fucking welcome.
Anything else the house of fraud, lies, record bonuses, and YOUR MONEY can get for you?
Kicks in the ass are 50% off, justice abortions always free, and your money is always good here.
and ... it's gone.
Sorry to hear it Aus_p. I think the lesson we've all learned these last few years is the markets are not, and never were, markets. They were always rigged, and all the books on investing we have ever read were written with that key bit of information omitted. "Markets" exist to shear sheep, and every one of us has been sheared at least once in their trading careers. Good luck, I hope it works out.
Hey, FUCK YOU.
In America we have a saying, "The fish rots from the head down," and I would have rather a bullet in my head than do business with Jon Corzine who bankrupted NJ.
You, however, did do business with him.
Again...Fuck you and have a nice day.
Is this a clarification of the clarification??
Customer positions were transfered with Thursday's closing prices. Earlier open profits are GONE as are balances that were in excess of 75% of maintenance margin for positions. Three hours into Sunday night session they could still not trade NY.
Customers that were flat at MF received an account at O'Brian with a $ balance of 0.
Oberbitches
Well, there's that $650,000,000.
Or if not, then maybe Jon's still got it?
No?
"Then were the fuck is my money that was held safely in my segregated account?" says the satisfied customer in today's modern financial service economy?
Jesus.
This is just plain fucking evil.
Your money is safe with us, which we're not gonna let you get to and if you don't send us more money because we won't let you have your money that's safe with us, you've got to send us more money or we'll take the rest of your safe with us money that's safe with us, too.
So bloody well bugger off, mate.
Paper PM's and commodities, anybody?
First it's the central banks fucking you as a counterparty what with the SNB's Euro peg.
Then the dealers continue raping and pillaging but bring it to a whole new and improved dimension with the ISDA ain't no default of ours, asshole.
Then the commodity exchanges just off and fuck up segregated accounts.
The whole fucking system is corrupt.
Oh, and did I forget to mention the hyperdrive prinitng presses?
While I share your sentiments in full, this has got beyond just plain ******* evil.
This is something like, I dunno, Mind ******* evil, we got it all covered now, break out the Chateau Rothschilds 91 ********evil....
ever since they finally got to GDaff, and set that whole Gold Dinars, we the people don't need your stinkin CB thing straight, these M F******s have been on overtime victory laps.
It's right full in your face now Amerika. Either buy your kneepads from the usual authorized outlets, or find a M****** F******* pitchfork and rise. It's your money they're stealing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N922igp905Y&feature=related
Er, sorry: It was your money.
Nothing inspires confidence in an exchange like having "customers" robbed of cash in their accounts, and then having their positions liquidated because they don't have enough cash in their accounts. "Please send a check ASAP, we need more money to steal."
If the press doesn't cover it, then it isn't actually happening, right??
the internet seems to have come at an inconvenient time for the global elite, relatively speaking. the republican party leadership may yet come to rue their institutional support of very wide gun ownership.
Jesus christ, a private deal between the Trustee and the CME for not funding those accounts 100% margin. If people truly knew what was going on in Wallstreet, our country would be in flames by the end of the day. They are running a ponzi scheme on top of a scam with the fox guarding the hen house. It's designed to work for the ones with contact and money, the ones that don't have it they are there to be fleeced at anytime. When this game is over, it will destroy the US.
done.
So, this is for RJO. I am assuming this 75% thing would be similar situation for any other company accounts were transferred to?
Yikes?
Why worry?
We can always print more money?
http://fucklloydblankfein.blogspot.com
No offense but just shut up. Real people are being raped and robbed and rendered powerless to do anything about it before our eyes. I don't have words. Think I'll shut the fuck up too.
Folks stuck in this, I am so sorry.
Everyone in the markets should know they are rigged. If someone doesn't know that, that individual is stupid beyond words. There are no innocents. Gamble at your own risk.
sending in cheques to cover a margin call...hahahahahaha.
Liquidation trade on.
Wow, glad I wasn't with MF Global. That sounds like a royal goat fuck.
*Implying you have money with another broker.
*Implying you'd best GTFO while you can.
i worry who's next and suspect it's me (if you don't know who the ....).
Stay the hell away from my escutcheon.
Know your goat
win-win?
Mondays... ugh.
Office Space:
Peter Gibbons: Let me ask you something. When you come in on Monday and you're not feeling real well, does anyone ever say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"
Lawrence: No. No, man. Shit, no, man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' something like that, man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki6J5ZmEfYs
Talk about adding "insult to injury". Going to be a lot of attorneys getting calls first thing in the am.
Especially the poor souls that ended up sending a cheque "express mail".
The FED is 100% responsible, plus dumb ass Obama for allowing speculation back into the market. MF Global should never had existed, 2008 was supposed to clean out the crap firms. But our academic madmen dropped interest rates to nothing and forced people to gamble. Then this sh*t happens with a junk firm that gamed them selves, the market and their customers. Disgusting.
Yup.
+1
Par for course in our modern economic times. It'll be interesting to look back at this period 15 or 20 years from now.
hahaha
15-20 years from now
quite the optimist
quite.
Oh, come on, Chump.....we got Dodd-Frank.......you know, "the strongest financial reform since the Great Depression (part 1)".
HAHA GL getting the MSM to report on this whole Obama/FED blame thing you talk about, assuming you can even get them to talk about MF at all...
counterparty cumstains in corrupt casinos
we know they got fuked. but did they get kissed, too?
Oh my god. What a mess. Your cash, it's gone. Please step aside; this line is for customers who actually have money.
Lol. Glad Im not gambling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKsMnAM8vk
Aaand!!!! It's gone.
HAHA I'm trying not to laugh but you're making it difficult.
From the WSJ " Regulators to skip MF Global investigation" . Shareholders are on their own in a corrupt system .
Yeah I saw that one. Apparently CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler is too cozy with Jon Corzine. He says he's essentially recusing himself from the investigation because there would be an "appearance" of a conflict of interest if he stayed on. I call bullshit and say that there has existed a conflict of interest before now, which is the reason these firms operate with impunity.
Impunity is USA Inc.
Wake me when someone feeds the fish.
Just call up or go online and sell your positions right now. Everything is fine and pretty much trading right where it was when the accounts were locked down.
This makes Europe look stable.
of course, Ya_ha!
europa has la staabeeeelliteee'!
Does anyone know the # to MF Global? I wanna drunk dial them!
They don't need a phone number because they're Mother Fuckin Global.
Well then I guess I'll just apply for a janitor position with them!
Deliver their pizza, serve their soup...
Fart pizza and piss soup.
And you don't even want to know about the clam chowder...
This kind of stuff has got to push gold higher even in an environment with forced liquidations all around. Who on earth wants to play in a blatantly rigged game that has gone beyond pilfering?
Gold is looking very pretty and shiny.
Don't forget what good ole Ben said ... Gold is definitely not money.
I think Benny boy will be saying that all the way to the grave.
Well then the tradition of stacking the barbarous relic looks like even more of a good idea.
LOL yeah. Gold is just traditional. That's why all the bailout entities keep trying to get the bankrupt nation to pledge their gold as collateral. They tried that rap with the Germans and were told to go screw themselves.
I'm sorry, I'd like to agree with you.
But "they" will let Au rise a bit, take in a few more suckers with cash, then crash it a hundred or so down(with appropriate pre-knowledge to the fortunate few), then buy the dip with the fiat they've gained from this MF scam and the rest of the 24/7 house never loses ponzi deals that fill in for a "free market" in our bold new "post reality" reality paradigm.
That said, at the end of the day, those who hold, and refuse to fold will at least be 'at large;' even if DHS/TSA has our pix on airport/bus station walls, I'd prefer to be looked at rather than lookin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwhD7jwwwkw&feature=autoplay&list=PL6AA24...
Imagine what it would look like if the Western paper decoupled from Eastern exchanges and physical.
The liquidations push down Western paper, but in the East, and in the physical markets you see no effect, just rapidly rising price as the people see that they are no longer safe ANYWHERE in the ponzi complex, and head for the exits.
right. Not that the Chinese will use the Pan Asian Gold Exchange to decouple their markets from the Western ponzi, or more exactly, not just yet. Currently, they are the chief beneficiaries of the kick the can and buy gold scheme as their acknowledged reserves are terribly inadequate. So for now, they kick the can and coordinate margin hikes.
Aaannnnd it's gone....
Here's your margaritta machine.
So sick... the DOJ made online poker (ex-colusion, a game of skill) effectively illegal, yet any chump can transfer his life savings onto an online brokerage account and click his mouse and lose his house.
Whatever, the online poker was taking time away from my online porn.