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Everything Not Nailed Down Getting Sold

Tyler Durden's picture




 


The market has finally realized that "this" is getting real. As of the open everything, including USTs, has been sold off aggressively. Well, except for gold of course, but we all knew that. Gold just hit a new all time record above $1628. In other news, there will be a Republican press briefing at 10 am according to C-Span. Stay tuned.

 

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Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:49 | 1497485 Flore
Flore's picture

RANSQUAWK NEWS NOT WORKING ON THE NEW SITE TYLER..

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:06 | 1497564 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

RANSQUAWK NEWS NOT WORKING ON THE NEW SITE TYLER..

 

I was going to mention this, too.

I miss the Ran Squawk feeds badly.

 

Back On Topic:

Everything not nailed down getting sold, and a lot of things in urban areas that are nailed down are getting torn up in the middle of the night and getting sold, too.

I saw a deserted 480 unit residential development yesterday. It was a PUD (Planned Unit Development) whereby some of the sites had a single dwelling, some had multifamily structures on them, and most sites were vacant.

Anyways, of the 15% to 20% of the multifamily structures that had been completed, which were mostly 12 to 24 unit buildings each, every single one of them had the outside AC units stolen (not a few or most, but all, with the wires cut and copper conduit stripped away. Some security guard that the bank or bagholder hired told me that not only has every single AC unit been stolen, but that thieves have been hitting breaking into foreclosed/unoccupied homes, and stripping all copper wiring from them.

Gotta love this recovery. Hank Paulson, Timmay Break It Again Jeetner, The Bernank and Obama are doing one helluva job, bitchez.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:17 | 1497620 Popo
Popo's picture

And the Yen.  Oh oh.. the Japanese have got to be freaking out....

They're not going to be selling much this month...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:31 | 1497687 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Dust off the DOW 10000! ball caps and strap them on tight.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:06 | 1497880 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

20 Cities Where Housing Prices Are Still Dropping Like A Knife

 

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/20-cities-where-housing-prices-are-still-...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:10 | 1497904 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

So we have a vast shadow inventory of houses rusting at the pier.  Nobody is going to buy them and they can't sit empty without slowly being destroyed.

Bullish for the banks in this topsy turvy world

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:13 | 1498395 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

There's been a spate of manhole cover thefts in the UK. Iron Ore bitchez.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:13 | 1497579 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

 

Ransqueek guy was looking fuking ill yesterday, green face, shirt, ears!.. he's knocking on deaths door, give the guy a break ok

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:01 | 1497831 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

U.S. Treasury to ZeroHedge:

"Don't you guys know?  It is debt deal discount day for all the Robo-traders on your site.  Buy NFLX, AAPL, AMZN, GOOG, etc.  Show your patriotic duty. Go long today.  Obama will not let you down.  Signed, Timmy.  P.S. Just signed my contract at head office of Goldman Sachs so I can watch my children grow up in NYC."

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:51 | 1497489 qussl3
qussl3's picture

What about those new safe havens the AUD and NZD?

Its a new paradigm!

Permanently high plateau!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:51 | 1497490 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Not Gold or Silver though.

But, but......they told me that it would be a repeat of 2008 and metals would be dumped overboard as quickly as possible.

Not this time.  Loss of faith in unbacked paper currency bitchez.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:53 | 1497498 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Screw 2008 bitchez.

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:55 | 1497505 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Raise the margins! P. Metals are getting feisty!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:28 | 1497669 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

At this point even 100% margins will not stop this stampede

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:56 | 1497518 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

they told me that it would be a repeat of 2008 and metals would be dumped overboard as quickly as possible.

I will start by saying I have 100% of NO idea what will happen to metals.  however, IF metals are dumped it wouldn't be now.  It would be if/when the US is downgraded and IF the fools make the Pension Funds drop Treasuries because they are no longer AAA, and also IF the idiot exchanges do undue haircuts on Treasuries as collateral.  In that case you'd see margin calls and POTENTIAL selling of metals to cover.

also: metals face another possible headwind if/when a deal is made.  IMO the current rapid rise is due to the metals acting as a safe haven from UNCERTAINTY.  Once it is certain that the Govt goes on its spending spree then Gold/Silver will lose some (not all) of its luster.  It then goes back to being a boring holder of wealth.  Nothing wrong with being a boring holder of wealth... quite the contrary...  however parabolic moves in metals occur with uncertainty IMO.

the crash of the dollar, although a certainty, may still be a ways off. 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:06 | 1497563 Quintus
Quintus's picture

All valid points.  I agree that IF an agreement is reached shortly metals are likely to sell off (With lots of encouragement from the Bullion Banks who are sitting on masses of new shorts they need to cover) in a knee-jerk reaction.  Just like as the Euro pop on the so-called 'Solution' to the Greek issue being agreed last week.

However, like the Greek agreement, it seems to me that there is no good answer to the problem the US faces, and once the Debt Ceiling deal has been digested for a few days, and the pressure will resume and metals will proceed higher.  Again - just like the Euro deal.

Can-Kicking will no longer suffice to calm the markets, I feel.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:19 | 1497629 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

I agree fully.

I hate every politician (except Denis Kucinich and usually not Ron Paul) and almost every finance person on Earth right now.  they have messed up so horrifically bad there is little to no way out. 

I wish I had the absolute devotion to the metals that some on zerohedge have, and could go "all in" into the metals.  But I have nagging doubts. 

Thus, I have tried to put myself into as "safe" a position as possible.  But the economic winds are way too uncertain given all that Big Govt and Big Biz have done.  Thus, I paid off all debt this year including my house once I found out it may not have been securitized by Wells.  Also CEF in my IRA.  But I have a sizable holdings of Treasuries in my 401k (what else can I put it in?) and over $100k in cash in a credit union (Took all my money out of that bastard TBTF Wells).

I hold some metals but not enough.  I am constantly afraid to pull the trigger on more.  That is my weakness and I get it...

am I safe enough?  who the hell knows.  According to some ZHers I should convert all my cash into Gold or Silver.  But that too has some risks...  thus, I sometimes post "are you sure" type of responses on ZH and at times I am junked to hell or called a socialist.  But I don't care because unlike others I don't worship gold... instead I see it as a very useful asset whose value I am having difficulty evaluating.   and unlike some of you I can't just go buying $100k worth of gold or silver based on comments like "Gold bitchez" or "Gold has maintained its value throughout time" (it has not, its value fluctuates although much differently than fiat).

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:26 | 1497655 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Silver Bitchez!!!  That was good enough for me!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:41 | 1497726 Raymond K Hassel
Raymond K Hassel's picture

Take a look at the miners - they are still cheap by any reasonable standard - they give you exposure to gold without paying 1600 an ounce plus - just be sure to hedge your paper bet with some of the things you might otherwise need physical for - unlike the PMs, you can buy physical food on sale with coupons. 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:03 | 1497864 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Fuck paper.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:54 | 1498080 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Miners are a good way to get exposure but here again the rule of law, and ultimately trust is a valuable commodity.  Governments have a way of laying claim to gold that is unlike any other "commodity" which is why the value of it above ground becomes almost sacrad.

 

As a holder of deeded mineral rights with proven reserves in CA, I've seen the US begin the seeds of reclamation during the Clinton era with the rewriting of BLM statutes limiting and tying up reserves out of the reach of the US citizen.  The closest thing to a personal federal reserve is a hole in the ground with a high grade ribbon.  Which is why land patents, assay offices and mints are such a threat to the current state of affairs.  Can't have the people of the US be soveign individuals, best to keep them "citizens" and "taxpayers".  Besides, our (s)elected officials are so much smarter and qualified to tell us what to do.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:01 | 1497806 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

.... and unlike some of you I can't just go buying $100k worth of gold or silver based on comments like "Gold bitchez" or "Gold has maintained its value throughout time" ....

Just a bit disingenuous, don't you think, to conclude this is the only basis for ZHers' enthusiam with the shiny stuff. 

You might want to read/listen to more of James Turk, Bill Muphy, John Embry, Eric Sprott, Marc Faber, Jim Rogers, Felix Zulauf, Ben Davies and a host of others, who together manage ten of billions of their own and other people's money.  They have all concluded PMs are the place to be given the current macroeconomics and their decades of active investment experience.  While none of them AFAIK have written "Gold bitchez", no doubt they think it and have bought theirs in size. 

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:54 | 1497808 Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson's picture

You need to buy more metal bro.  Just do it.  Nothing will be safe including your paid off home.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:09 | 1497898 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

I agree with buying more gold/silver but you just know it will get knocked back once a deal is made on the debt. It will take off from that point once the dust settles but that may be at a sub $1500 price.

No one can know for sure but based upon past senarios, it is unlikely that gold will continue it's constant move upwards.

If this comment comes up in the small print that it is showing on my screen, how do you get it to be larger?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:57 | 1497829 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

I understand your reluctance.  Gold's most useful when held in trust by a sovereign power.  In the past, the US entrusted this virtue to it's inhabitants.  Not so much anymore.  If things get bad, the best  a gold possessor can do is get a one time shot at exchange.  The basic value to all commerce is trust.

 

The US is currently suffering from a populace that has become so jaded and distrustful of any and all forms of authority that I fear it's restoration may not occur with the current generation.  This did not happen in a vaccuum, it's on parade every day.  If the borrowing doesn't stop, our future generations will become ever more fearful and reluctant to engage in productive and meaningful activities and pursuits.

 

I'm in favor of equal application of uniform laws of bankruptcy and congressional control of providing sound currency for the people of the US.  These two items, with a cessation of borrowing, will go a long way in establishing resitution to the truly aggreived and reconciliation among the populace on our way back to the restoration of the trust in the rule of law.  imo.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:10 | 1497901 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"The US is currently suffering from a populace that has become so jaded and distrustful of any and all forms of authority that I fear it's restoration may not occur with the current generation." ??

I'm not sure I understand, I always had the impression (from the outside) that the US Citizenship is waaaay to trustful of Government in general. There was this question about "would you inform the police if your father/mother did some damage to community property with the car" and the US was at the very top of the "YES" answers, followed by all english speaking countries. Compare to Greece!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:22 | 1498209 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Interesting. I may be overstating it. Instead of "authority" maybe is should say commercial enterprise and the regulations designed to control it, including the fourth estate.

By and large, the "police" in the US are our neighbors, fathers, brothers and friends. Police are typically required to live within the areas they're employed in. Our police are not considered occupying forces.

Trust on a local level is not the same as trust in our (s)elected officials and the commercial enterprises that placed them in their current positions of "authority".

(in my personal opinion)

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:02 | 1497858 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Move your 401k Ts into a self-directed IRA, it's not like holding the physical, but it beats worrying about your loan to Timmay defaulting.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:25 | 1498445 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Understand your concerns, but surely holding physical with no counterparty risk is better than holding faith in the current banking system. Appreciate you've switched to Credit Union, but wouldn't they be as affected by a 'Bank Holiday'. 

If you're going to keep cash, I'd keep some of it under your mattress, at least you can get at it, then invest as much as you feel comfortable in silver, gold, food, water etc.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:13 | 1497586 SMG
SMG's picture

This is certainly a possibility.  I hope it is correct.   I've been hoping for one last chance to load up.   I've been wrong to wait so far though.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:36 | 1497702 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

"the crash of the dollar, although a certainty, may still be a ways off. "

Agreed, The dollar is trash ONLY relative to the printing of alternative currencies...From what I observe, the EU, UK, Japan & China are ALSO printing like hell.

If the CB's all make sure that their CRA's ratings get dropped from AAA to AA AT THE SAME TIME - then there is no incentive for the vigilantes to hammer any single currency.

The implosion of the dollar will take longer than it would otherwise if there was an outside system of checks.

The CBs and their masters will make sure of this.

 

 

 

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:22 | 1497946 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Remember that generally Central Banks can only print at full speed if they get "proper"collateral from the equivalent Treasury.No Deficit spending = no increase in Bonds issues = less printing possible. Bernanke has become the biggest Treasuries holder, yes. Still, they had to be on the market, first.

I'm digressing: China prints because of the peg to the dollar, Japan because of similar reasons, the Bank of England is a different matter altogether, but please, the ECB is really trying not to. USA is the leader of the game, the others follow, each in his way. Any substantial currency that gets too good and you get the "hot money" flowing into like a river of molten lava, ready to flow back at the whim of a CNBC newscast. Remember the Asian Tigers?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:53 | 1497797 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Latest news, dude: metals are getting dumped too right now. They are not fastened down either. 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:18 | 1497938 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah.  3rd day in a row at 10:45am.  I suppose that's normal.  Large traders routinely operate by selling at a set time of day regardless of fundamentals, technicals or newsflow.  They just set a clock and then sit back with a coffee and donut waiting for the magic hour.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:29 | 1497673 Popo
Popo's picture

Gold and silver are doing well. 

But SKF is kicking ass and taking names.   I'm still scared of the ultrashort funds... but I gotta say...

 

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:15 | 1498403 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The ultra short funds do not work.  Compare SKF to it's "non-inverse" counterpart.  You'll see that SKF doesn't properly mirror the results of the "non-inverse" index.  There are periods where both indices lose.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:13 | 1497923 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Bait and switch history.  TPTB want you to look back a few years and do what you are told, but will belittle you if you look back further in history because it reveals their scam.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:52 | 1497494 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

meh... less than 1%.  if the idiot-tards ever really figured stuff out the market would be down a minimum of 3-4% and more likely 10+%.  However, in these days of the Greenspan/Bernanke put every day is up, and a 0.5% drop is a catastrophe.  hahaha.  is this all the fear the markets can manage? 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:04 | 1497552 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

It's early in trading yet.  Wait a bit. 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:48 | 1497762 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

European Indexes just (tried) to drop off a cliff in sympathy with the US Indexes in the time they had remaining today... if the US Indexes tank rest of today it'll be everyone cuing up overnight for the Exiits at Euro-opening tomorrow (sleepless night for the Hedgies here)

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:52 | 1497495 Debtless
Debtless's picture

Rome burns as the two parties clammer about cutting less than 8% of the annual deficits we run.

What a total circle jerk.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:05 | 1497559 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Let it be known to all in the land that the two-party system will now be known as Bukake Kabuki.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:05 | 1497876 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Kabukake?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:13 | 1497914 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

 

Japanese for 'Kick the Can' yes? 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:56 | 1498340 mt paul
mt paul's picture

can full of peas

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:21 | 1498645 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I'll just call it

 

                  Bernanke

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:53 | 1497497 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

I want to SHORT Timmy Geithner, but NATURE beat me to it. 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:55 | 1497502 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fuck paper fiat

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:56 | 1497511 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

My name shall suffice.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:07 | 1497572 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

but... he was quite charismatic and some of his songs were great.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:55 | 1497508 fuu
fuu's picture

<-- Down 1%+ by close

<-- Green by close

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:59 | 1497532 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Brilliant use of the junk arrows as an instant reader pole mechanism.

As a moderator I'm gonna give you my first thumbs up dude. Very nice for a monkey.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:08 | 1497566 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And then nothing happened when I pushed the moderator's "Like" button. Time to email Sacrilege.

Oh well, it's the thought that counts......right? :)

BTW thanks for giving credit where it is due. But since I didn't see the original, I applaud the copy. :) 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:07 | 1497568 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Proper attribution in a self-regulating society?...albeit online.....See the free markets do work!

"Why don't we give freedom a try?"  - Ron Paul

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:08 | 1497894 snowball777
snowball777's picture

So which is it...we're all smart enough to decide for ourselves....or we're all idiots who keep voting for the equal of two evils?

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:06 | 1497560 Possible Impact
Possible Impact's picture

LOL, good polling method. I think you will start a new ZH post format style.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:06 | 1497562 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Tight race so far. I voted only because you showed incredible improv skills. Keep those, they'll come in handy soon enough:0

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:55 | 1497509 mmlevine
mmlevine's picture

Could we finally be pushing the great "reset" button that should have been pushed in '08?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:02 | 1497543 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

not yet…congress wants to push the market lower so they can buy stocks low…announce a deal is done…cause the market to spike up….then sell again. Then the game will be over. One last push to make bank before the wheels come off.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:38 | 1497717 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I tended to agree up until recently, but now I feel like I'm close to calling it quits. Of course that's what "they" want so they can ambush the bears with another QE. I guess the question is: when will they run out of rounds in the QE gun?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:19 | 1497940 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

This isn't about the markets anymore.  I don't think even Bernanke believes he can reignite the economy.  This is about holding onto power by kicking the can down the road long enough to buy up all the gold.  The banksters don't care about the markets, they care about survival, and that means they need as much gold as possible.  When gold goes vertical, then the reset button is being pushed.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:05 | 1498137 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Good post. We're looking at the scramble for chairs as the music goes into the final chorus.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:05 | 1498138 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Good post. We're looking at the scramble for chairs as the music goes into the final chorus.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:58 | 1497523 KnightsofNee
KnightsofNee's picture

Open the bomb bay doors please Hal.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 09:59 | 1497531 Sandy15
Sandy15's picture

Simply means the NY Fed is not pushing the buy button on everything.  The DemoRats want the market to sell off to scare the masses.....

Wake up people!!!!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:10 | 1497902 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Repugnant assclown...how many times did you vote for Dubya?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:00 | 1497534 pmn
pmn's picture

Buy the dip?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:29 | 1497677 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Which one?

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:00 | 1497536 Inibo E. Exibo
Inibo E. Exibo's picture

It's getting more interesting by the day.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:01 | 1497537 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Hmm, Robo Formula seems to have went tits up today... Paper PM's next...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:03 | 1497546 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yesterday I actually found myself feeling sorry for Robo...............NOT.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:04 | 1497554 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Don't be jealous Hulk you know the Robo Forumla always sells at the highs and buys at the lows.  Why you so mad?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:34 | 1497698 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Thats an old photo. I am actually quite happy these days!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:03 | 1497544 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Ooo! Are the Republicans going to announce a return to the Gold Standard? Cause that would make sense.

Nonetheless, they'll comfort us with very complicated math I'm sure.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:44 | 1497741 wisefool
wisefool's picture

That would be the immediate end of the USA. The euros and chicoms would force unconditional surrender. Let me explain how this works, with some snarkyness, but in the spirit of protecting the people here who do actually hold gold as an asset, and dont understand what gold standard would do.

  1. China sells us plastic crap that degrades or is obsolete in 4 years. They aquire our FRNs and our debt.
  2. Europe plays "pity party/support the old country." typical uppermiddle class parasite enjoys thier 4 week vacations to europe and want to keep thier "sophisitcation" training grounds alive. FRB sends FRNs over there in pallets. See 2008, greece, marshal plan etc.
  3. Arabs sell oil for FRNs.
  4. Controlled opposition tells the american people that gold is the only way to have sound money.
  5. Gold standard implemented in the USA.
  6. within 30 seconds all foreign held FRNs are redeemed for whatever faction of gold backs them.  Airbuses loaded with gold start taking off every five minutes from any and every single redemption center in the USA.
  7. And believe me your typical .gov bureaucratic functionary would not blink twice about giving away the national treasure as long as the process told them to. I mean, I pay more taxes than warren buffet, cause that's what the process says is fair. They be star struck by any sophisticated foriegner with a dump truck of FRNs.
  8. America's new currency collapses two days later.
  9. People who have physical will have to bury it for 10 years. cause the first time you are seen in public using PMs you'll have a messenger boy from the local gang stop you in the street "how much is your wife/child/etc to you?" They will have a picture taken on thier camera phone.

Thats how it will work this time folks. We got off easy last time cause the euroes basically let us "have" thier empires if we finished the colonial process (the dirty parts) in exchange for our gold. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

If you hold PMs, expecially paper PMs, you actually want the existing "less than sound money policy" to continue.

Junk away, but this is the same old story of every empire. Read about what the farmers in the Rome countryside said to the barbarians asking where thier gold was. They pointed tword the city (holders of PMs)  and said "They have the gold"

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:51 | 1497786 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Is it possible to have a precious metals standard that is not redeemable for said precious metals?

Perhaps an "independent" audit of the precious metals held by the US every 90 days?

I don't disagree that everyone would be quick to convert their FRN to gold/silver/etc.

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:42 | 1498047 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The PM markets basically provide that to us now. And that is why this place gets crazy when there is even a rumor that a dealer can not ship physical. Gold basically is the one-world currency. Just because we dont know how much gold the FED  has does not mean that everyone doesn't.

But the rothschild "I care not about the laws ... only the money" conspiracy platiutude does not apply anymore. It is how money is taxed that matters.

let me put it a different way. CNBCs Jim Cramer invests in gold heavily for his tax exempt charitable trust. And announces that constantly. He is not dumb. We make hate him, but he is not dumb. All of the elite do the same thing. Go back and look at John and Teresa Kerry's tax forms from when he ran for president in 2004 ... Democratic, billionaire  hero of the people, payed 11% effective income tax. Pelosi has $20 Million in APPL which pays a similar tax rate. 

Long story short. Fiat/gold are not the incentive model for productivity anymore. Quality of life + Power is. Money can only buy power/control if it is tax free. And PMs enjoy that status for now ... 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:13 | 1497921 snowball777
snowball777's picture

In short, instant bank-run and unstoppable collapse and deflation, but an awesome plan....for the < 1% who already own gold.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:18 | 1498191 wisefool
wisefool's picture

snarky internet meme: Snowball. This is burrow. your membership in the 1% of people who hold physical was sent not secure. go green. go green.

In other words, in this scenario, if you are an american see #9. You will run out of ammo and kin folk before the other 99% does. Just look at what 51% of the people in the USA who don't pay taxes are doing to the system.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:25 | 1497970 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

I don't really see TPTB switching to a pure gold standard.  It will have some sort of out.  Maybe non-redeemable paper backed "99.9%" by gold.  One year later, 98.9%, and so on and so forth.  I also see them ramping the price of the gold they hold so as to create the appearance that the currecy is "backed by gold"

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:37 | 1498019 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

You are hilarious! A hundred points for the well written argument. Right on many points...

Sadly, you are wrong on some points. The most important one is this: NIXON closed the freaking "gold window" because some of what you call the "uppermiddle class parasite" European countries WANTED THEIR FREAKING GOLD BACK!

Yes, on the surface it looked like they wanted to redeem USD debt in gold, but if you look closely a huge chunk of European (CB) gold, (sold as gold, not as USD debt) is still in New York in the basements of the NY FED. And it will never be sent back. So stop whining about the "sophisticated". They are waiting since 1971 and will wait forever!

Empire? Finishing their colonial process? Doughboy, you got that completely upside-down! Look who has military bases and where...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:07 | 1498148 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Mutual asserted snarkyness acknowledged.

Whose gold was it? Didn't you old world folks haul enough gold out of the colonies before 1776? When you all tried to tripple dip in 1812, we sent General Jackson down to New Orleans, and hopefully us hayseed doughboys have the wisdom to do it again.

Same thing goes for running your former colonies. America's superpower status has been and still is a net drain to the US infavor of the nations who recieve the stability and the money outflows of the foriegn bases. Ron Paul is right about this. He is the anti-thesis to the "upper middle class" american I was reffering to who thinks foriegn countries can not contibute to world security. (or should not, cause they are so sophisticated, they dont need a miilitary to protect thier economies/trade) 

Again, mutual snarkyness, and good points on your side as well.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:38 | 1498270 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Ok, ok. There is always the danger of having to debate back to Cain robbing Abel. And compliments for kicking the Brit's asses in 1812. Not a Brit, me, more continental...

I was thinking more of what was very clear to Nixon: some of the US debts were in FRN, some in gold, and even more gold was shipped to NY during the world wars. For safekeeping. Which is good, as it is safe (or in a safe). Some of it belonged to countries which never had colonies. Nixon twisted a lot of arms to put the FRN on the current pedestal. Did a reaaaally good job.

As for Power or SuperPower Status: it is easy to calculate how much an empire costs, and it's very difficult to calculate how much the profits are. In general you would expect that the real beneficiaries are US-based multinationals which can leverage their "got a bigger Uncle, and his name is Sam". Monsanto, Coca Cola, Disney, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, etc. In general all the leviathan stock that is going generally well because of the "exposure to the world". Of course, they don't pay an "imperial tax".

Ron Paul is great, if he would smile more he would have a chance. What he does not know or openly say is that the military-industrial complex of the EU countries would be more then willing to "take up the slack". It's the US complex that is not willing to make space and using a lot of lobbying power to coerce the BAD former Colonial European powers to keep a very low military profile. For example when France and the UK wanted to trash Egypt in 1951, etc. etc.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:27 | 1498449 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Well said. we are about 90% in agreement if we have the baseline assumption that Nixon was a puppet, as are most presidents. His dirty deeds were teleprompted for him just like the current office holder.

And snarkyness aside, the FED does deserve some credit. I'd rather have the bernake and his academics run flawed monetary policy than what many people advocate (letting our politicians do it). And we can not go to a gold standard, as already mentioned.

Most importantly, you are right about the lack of imperial tax for the "double dutch, irish jig, manahatan transfer, cayman island vacation" corporations that people think are american, yet they pay no taxes to america. snark: Let the guy who makes $50k/yr, never been to europe, might have served in the military, cant afford an I-Pad, gets no subsidies ... let him/her pay the USA's taxes ....... 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:37 | 1498745 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

100% on that. That's why I think flat taxes are better. Let's every taxpayer get the "most favorable rate" of 18% as the top 400.

I don't call them multinationals anymore, they are transnational.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 12:17 | 1498188 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

And by the way, the above is also part of the reason why the US foots quite a lot of the bills of the World Bank and the IMF and why the first has an US boss and the second a (very often French) EU boss, etc. In the Seventies dear Nixon did a LOT of dirty deals, not only inside the US.

If you want to research the above, look at the gold swap deals running since decades.

So yes, I agree, back-to-the-gold-standard is not an option for the US of A, not as long as the FRN is alive.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:04 | 1497553 Mercury
Mercury's picture

I predict that ultimately the government will decide to print and borrow more money.

Anyone want to take the other side of that?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:07 | 1497570 Cortez
Cortez's picture

Only a Masochist would.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:07 | 1497573 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

And the Rothschilds are doing big business with Russian Aluminium baron Oleg Deripaska.

 

http://www.enplus.ru/en/governance/board_of_directors/

 

Thanks to the ZH commenter who brought this to my attention.

Paper money is for the sheeple, it's the modern day glass beads for the native Indians.

Real stuff is for TPTB.

 

And who made Klaus Kleinfeld boss of Alcoa ?

That couldn't have possibly happened that a German gets the top job at an American multinational corporation had Mr. Kleinfeld not attended the Bilderberg meetings.

 

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:14 | 1497593 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

I read that article from dont tread on me / silver shield, too. Starker Tobak. Paper money = Sklavenkonfetti.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:09 | 1497576 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

And in other news, last night's crop circle discovered in England features a a toking alien.

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2011/cherhillwhitehorse/cherhillwhite...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:49 | 1497774 snowball777
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:09 | 1497577 Arch Duke Ferdinand
Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:09 | 1497578 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

USD/JPY is the best buy on the market right now....even with stock crash and default...dollar gains on Jippy

Dollar has fallen significantly against JPY, I'm a buyer down here, because the Japanese PM will be intervening soon.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:10 | 1497581 Bullion King
Bullion King's picture

My first post !

 

I'm a gold dealer in Canada - for first qtr, silver was selling like hot cakes - now its gold.

Lots of people have all the silver they want (or have room for)

Now they're buying physical gold - from investors buying 100oz to smaller investors just buying 1/4oz Maples

Gold is in demand

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:23 | 1497642 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Welcome Bullion King. They are not purposely ignoring you, just preoccupied with the hot action this am.

You're anecdotal updates on PM sales will be greatly appreciated... along with whatever else you have to say.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:31 | 1497992 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Welcome Bullion King!  Any stories you want to share from your customers would be greatly appreciated.

Some people here are very touchy about their PMs.  I believe gold is the better long term investment because central banks (in general) are not stacking silver, they are stacking gold, and being very sneaky about it.  That's all I need to know.

On the other hand, there's no way silver is going to underperform, and it is more practical to use as money.  So both is a can't lose strategy.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:11 | 1497583 Archimedes
Archimedes's picture

Although I want to see how the Government responds to the soon to be housing blow up in Canada I am eyeing the Canadian Dollar.

If the government does the right thing and lets the banks that made bad loans fail and they don't follow the US and Europe on the futile printing press road the CAD will be one of the strongest currencies in a few years.

Canada has a Debt to GDP of about 35% (Very low) and they have a wealth of natural resources.

Funny when I was a kid I would accidentally get a Canadian dime back as change and would throw it away. I guess Canadians may be doing that with US dimes now!

I like the Krone too but Canada is so close

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:15 | 1497602 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

See post below Archie

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:26 | 1497972 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

Don't count on Canada holding up real well if the Canadian dollar keeps going up. We are an export country which will be hurting a lot with a $1.25 dollar. The US is still the largest trading partner and if it is in worse shape, it will knock us down with it. A clip on the news last night showed a leather manufacturer in Ontario whose sales are down 60% yoy due to the dollar.

The Canadian banks will not get killed in a housing crunch as most residential loans are CMHC (govt. corp) insured and the taxpayer will pay the price. Anything not CMHC insured would have had a minimum of 25% downpayment. They keep talking about the rising real estate prices here, but that is only in pockets. No where outside of Vancouver have prices gone up over the past two years in British Columbia. The housing bubble is limited to the major cities and that has a lot to do with Chinese demand.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:13 | 1497588 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Everything not nailed down getting DEMOLISHED

BofA Donates Then Demolishes Houses to Cut Glut

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-27/bank-of-america-donates-then-de...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:48 | 1497763 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

We already knew that banks work like demolition companies, but I didn't know they could do it literally :(

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:52 | 1497785 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Don't worry; they're still marked to myth on their books even when they no longer exist.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:15 | 1497603 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

i guess nobody dared fight 'uncle gorilla" before they fought him.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:16 | 1497608 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

With a default, the US Dollar becomes the strongest currency in the world again.  Think about it, Benny had to know this all along........

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:07 | 1497888 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

With the global banking system as it is and the pending economic collapse, no fiat currency will be strong.  The money as debt ponzi scheme is quickly coming to an end, and I'm happy to see it happen.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:17 | 1497617 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

This whole circle jerk is almost amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.

Even I, a self described cynical bitch, is amazed at the level of dysfunction going on in Washington.

I an listening to c-span. So far there isn't one congressmuppet that doesn't deserve to be gonged off the hill within the first 30 seconds of speaking.

Please, don't blame the President for this. Hold him accountable yes. But hold everyone else, democrat, GOP and every American citizen accountable. You want to be lied to, your democracy is exceeding to the upside on that account.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:38 | 1497695 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I BLAME OBAMA.  He could have, and should have, started the debt talks months and months ago.  Now he wants a quick fix:  cut the SSTF, cut Medicare, and medicaid, and cut Head Start, Obama is a fascist war monger.  He worships the devil.  He dances with demons.  I BLAME OBAMA, but yes, I blame them all. 

The real statement you should make is concerning who is accountable.  You, I, and all other Americans are accountable.  Obama said "The American people do not want to be concerned with the debt ceiling."  Well, that is a lie (he does that a lot).  We do care, so we should do something.  We should march on DC, and every other city is this country.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:42 | 1497728 Nom de Guerre
Nom de Guerre's picture

One does not simply march into Mordor on the Potomac...

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:55 | 1497791 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Obama said "The American people do not want to be concerned with the debt ceiling." 

Yeah, and in other news Mr. President: Fat People Do Not Want To Be Concerned With Gravity

Obama will win on this.  The size and expense government will grow and grow until wholesale private property confiscation remains the only way left to feed the leviathan (his plan all along).  Eventually however the whole thing will collapse on itself (reality).

Collapse is more or less inevitable at this point but sooner (better) rather than later (worse) is the come-to-Jesus conversation most Americans aren't willing to have right now.

Once you see the wisdom of "sooner" the sign you want to be holding is: OBAMA IN 2012

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:23 | 1497638 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Kitco Silver Lease rates say ZERO.....for the one,three and six month lease and the one year.

Free silver all round.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:25 | 1497644 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fwank is speakin on da fwor ob da houth an he wooks wike he wath ub dwinkin aowl nide wong.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:29 | 1497672 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Chuckie Shumer is saying Obama went all the way with Republicans and we should recognize that is better than meeting them halfway.  Doesn't Chuckie know Obama is further right than most Republicans?

And Federal Reserve Bitches are testifying to Congress.  I must have missed the Boehner show this morning. 

CSPAN is so worthless.  I can't believe Americans still support our political system.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:49 | 1497771 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Is that UpChuck Schumer you speak of? Excuse me while I run to the can to throw up!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:55 | 1497810 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch.

(applicible to all us NYers whether we voted for him or not)

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:20 | 1497947 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Sonofabitch?  No, he is just stupid.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:29 | 1497678 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

US dollar collspsing against everythig else.  Rapid loss of confidence.

This is EXACTLY what will happen on a way bigger scale somewhere down the road.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:33 | 1497693 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

The CIA better have their own money printing machines so we can close in the green.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:34 | 1497699 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

selling?  yep.  maybe this will be known as Grey Wedneday

those new "republican" congresspersons may be starting to wonder what the hell they were thinking, running for office. 

hang in there!  BiCheZ!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:37 | 1497712 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

this is **NOT** real

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:42 | 1497727 Elmer Fudd
Elmer Fudd's picture

"(it has not, its value fluctuates although much differently than fiat)."

Back to school for you.  Using fiat as the constant is your mistake.  Ask yourself this: If/When your reasonable side is proven

 correct and fiat realizes its true worth as a currency "by decree,"  what's a lousy 5-10% exposure to metals going to do for you?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:47 | 1497759 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

you talkin to bugs or daffy?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:44 | 1497740 gatorontheloose
gatorontheloose's picture

zsl bid size odd traffic and two mins later TOTAL SMASH DOWN! haha

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:46 | 1497749 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Big Blue, meet Deep Red!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:47 | 1497754 Forgiven
Forgiven's picture

<------- Jeethner is an idiot

<------- Oh no he's not.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:50 | 1497779 gatorontheloose
gatorontheloose's picture

sorry guys that was my 1 lot zsl @ 12.80 I will try to be more careful next time.  the robots are hungry.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:54 | 1497805 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

thats not a sell-off.  we want a real sell-off.

 

5% or bust.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:59 | 1497843 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

VIX is up over 2.0 pts today, yet equities are finding support?

Gotta hand it to rocket scientists; they are better at number manipulation than anyone.

What are the odds more than a 100 pt drop in the DJIA today?

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:04 | 1497867 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"For every credit Bubble, there is a credit Bust."

 

Action = Reaction

 

What goes up must go down.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:08 | 1497896 oa92000
oa92000's picture

Remember what just happened in Norway...this could happen in Washington

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:45 | 1498057 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Interesting that the markets are falling and gold is now flat.  Does that indicate that gold is not yet the liferaft of choice, or does it indicate that the manipulation today in gold prices is especially powerful?  If the latter, the snapback in gold prices should be impressive.

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:21 | 1498423 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Big Banks to Congress - WE WILL scare the dickens out of you then. Boys....hit the sell buttons!

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:41 | 1498756 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

In addition to limiting the rights of people injured by corporations, under the guise of limiting "frivolous" litigation, one ALEC resolution from 2006 supports making it harder for you to obtain any compensation from a company whose negligence killed your family pet. In 2009, Americans learned that many U.S. pet food companies had shipped the production of food for their four-legged companions overseas and that Chinese contractors had contaminated the pet food with melamine to increase profit margins, resulting in serious injuries and death to numerous dogs and cats in the U.S.

http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Tort_Reform#How_are_corporations_avoidin... 

[for the cynical - the US pet industry is worth about $50 billion a year, or more than Sri Lanka, Tunisia or Bulgaria]

 

The relevence of this? Oh, right - ALEC is a useful yard stick for the way things are going. And they're not going the 'peace, democracy and equal rights' way. [Warning: links will contain liberals]

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 22:28 | 1593195 karmete
karmete's picture

Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition sesli siteler sesli sohbet

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