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Everything You Need To Know About Europe's Dilemma In 4 Minutes

Tyler Durden's picture


The current crisis of the Eurozone is a result of the imbalance of economic power between the core and the periphery but once one understands the non-economic and completely political strategy that is occurring, comprehending the at-times-incredible decision-making (or lack thereof) is at least easier to digest. Stratfor's Adriano Bosoni provides a very succinct description of everything you wanted to know about Europe's 'situation' but were afraid to ask in under 240 seconds.


"At the center of the debate lies the question of national sovereignty, the core and periphery of Europe will then have to decide how much (or how little) they are willing to compromise in order to find a way out of the crisis. The answer to this question will not be the result of an economic analysis - it will be the result of a political calculation."



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Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:04 | 2438168 phungus_mungus
phungus_mungus's picture

Damn, some of the gals in the ads on this website are HOT!!!


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:24 | 2438223 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

FUCK Ze Germans!


Everyone else in Europe

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:29 | 2438233 walküre
walküre's picture

You don't speak for "everyone else" in Europe.

Keep to yourself Irishman.


Fuck the EU and the Euro!


60% of Europeans.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:48 | 2438284 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

"Fuck you ALL"


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:08 | 2438334 Manthong
Manthong's picture

From each Nordic/Teutonic according to his ability, to each SPIIG according to their austere needs in order to enrich the finance and political elite according to their greed and avarice.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:46 | 2438419 knukles
knukles's picture

"The current crisis of the Eurozone is a result" of a dumb ass idea.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:27 | 2438503 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

It is a result of fractional reserve banking and fiat money.

When we eventually go back to gold the EU will be over...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:40 | 2438531 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

that, combined with entirely too much of other people's money and not one of iota of sense

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:08 | 2438682 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Oh no, knuckles. Not dumb. Brilliant.

This "Euro" thingee looks set to break the nations of Europe forever and unifiy the Continent, succeeding where the guns of Napoleon and Hitler failed.

How can you call that "dumb"?

Edit: I should hasten to add, this is not my policy, or my preference. It was the stated goal of the Euro from inception and it looks set to realize that goal, with the crisis necessitating political decisions which which could not otherwise be taken.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:58 | 2438825 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Bollocks. The only thing that comes out of this is riots and instability.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:22 | 2438622 Danielius
Danielius's picture

here in Lithuania they instituted their OWN austerity measures long ago, kept the IMF out (unlike Latvia) and now are looking at 4% growth, which is not bad.  It was painful for a while, but not like Greece, and now things are looking up and I agree with the F- Germany. 


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 04:15 | 2438788 Belarusian Bull
Belarusian Bull's picture

Half of Belarus does their shopping in Litva and Poland. The goods are cheaper and higher quality. Revunes from visas might be a good portion of government revenues :)

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 04:57 | 2438798 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

We can consolidate the four minutes to four words...."Shits hitting the fan".

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:20 | 2438759 edotabin
edotabin's picture

"We're fucked"


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:40 | 2438852 odatruf
odatruf's picture


- Homer (Greek Poet and Bart's dad)

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:22 | 2438807 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Eurozone is dead. How on earth does any nation accept that it has to subsidise rightly or wrongly another nation, possibly ad infinitum, when there are racial, historical and religious differences let alone different demographic trends and pressures. Even in Italy, the Northeners can't stand the southerners for a host of reasons and have often talked of breaking away and Merkel and Co think they can create a moving vehicle with bicycle, scooter, car and truck tyres on each rim? Give me a break.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:55 | 2438870 Semfiguras
Semfiguras's picture

Germany 2 - Greece 0

After Greece tough Democracy, the german barbarians are again destroing democracy, they did it in the last century with tanks, they did it now with bags of money

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 07:07 | 2438885 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

How on earth does any nation accept that it has to subsidise rightly or wrongly another nation,


When that any nation has turned that another nation into a client state in order to provide themselves a future and a present.

See many articles and comments on the consequences of German mercantilism.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 07:36 | 2438917 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

"When that any nation has turned that another nation into a client state in order to provide themselves a future and a present"


Er, you mean like what China is doing to Thibet? Enslaving a whole nation and spoon-feeding it just enough so it doesn't die of starvation, while in the meanwhile plundering all of the resources the nation has...?


I'm curious, do you get paid for spreading the Maoist propaganda or is it included in your ISP's 'terms of use'?

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:32 | 2438243 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

If Merkel gets you should sell your secret to the Viagra people.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:37 | 2438642 trebuchet
trebuchet's picture

germany about to viagra inflation

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:53 | 2438295 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

I've visited 513 porn sites and all I'm getting is the birdfeeder ad. Maybe 666 is the magic number for seeing the t-shirt wenches?

And now Obama is trying to jail Sheriff Joe? What the hell is going on here?

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:13 | 2438341 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I used to get the t shirt wenches and they were great but now I'm getting ads for baby clothes...what the hell is going on here.  haha

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:21 | 2438363 flacon
flacon's picture

I'm still getting ads for APMEX. I've been bugged! 

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:29 | 2438509 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

something to do with 'Quantitative Trading Strategies'...

Obviously I should surf for more porn...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:01 | 2438580 indygo55
indygo55's picture

I only get ads for Facebook IPO. Yeah, right. Damn that banker/consultant!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:04 | 2438801 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I'm at least getting the Brazil babe with next to nothing on hawking $10,000 plots of land. Then when I hit the reply tab my woody instantly disappears when Warren Buffet shows his ugly assed mug. What a downer man!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:48 | 2439122 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Your ads are determined by your browser search history, so maybe it's time you had a little talk with the wife. ;)

I have my browser set to never remember history, so I see all kinds of ads, but I haven't been lucky enough to see the fabled tshirt wenches yet.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:32 | 2438385 neutrinoman
neutrinoman's picture

Well, good sir, you didn't think we came to this site to romance Mr. Durden, did you? We came to romance the young ladies in the ads, and, failing that, to romance the ads themselves.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:17 | 2438753 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

And they NEVER return my calls!  When I THINK of the number of TIMES I've held up my computer with one hand . . .

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:55 | 2438677 Western
Western's picture

99% of my ads are Apmex or similarly bullion based companies.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:07 | 2438174 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

Stratfor, huh? Why am I not surprised the commentary is so stupid? THE CRISIS IS NOT POLITICAL, the crisis is "spending more than you earn." Germany bailing out Greece is not a solution to the crisis, it's just wealth redistribution to create a lowest common denominator!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:39 | 2438262 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

No, the problem isn't spending more than you earn, either. That is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is central banking. More specifically, usury + fractional reserve banking. I agree, however... The Stratfor commentary was uninspiring.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:24 | 2438370 flacon
flacon's picture

Sacrifices are a necessary good for the people. I mean... who will build the roads if we didn't have politicians and bankers? /sarc!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:48 | 2438423 knukles
knukles's picture


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 04:01 | 2438784 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

+1  As usual, Stratfor "forgets" to mention the flaws that the new EU Treaties bear within themselves.


Fuck supranational sovereignity, go back to the EEC Treaty of 1957/65 and drop that Leviathan off in the Mariana Trench where he belongs!

Then let the people deal with their own Central Mafia...

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:04 | 2438287 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Its a great solution if you are a bank that has bonds that are underwater. Taxpayers of the various EU countries? Not so much. Let's see what have they tried so far...oh right bail out the banks.

Guys its the same thing all over the world (BRIC's and asia aside). You put in a politician who is a banker shill. Shill runs up debts throwing pork to the elite and crumbs to the proles (they love to buy expensive military gear eg Greece buying GERMAN subs). Then the banks say "oh you can't pay back your debt why don't you just sell us your national assets?" They always want stuff like gold, islands, ruins (acropolis anyone?), oil (in Africa) and so forth and so on for pennies on the dollar in a fire sale which in no way gets you out of debt (read our control).

They also want everyone in debt so they can blow up the system and replace it with a single unified currency out of the BIS and a Brussels style unaccountable, unelected, opaque burreaucracy to run the entire world.

That's what's going on peeps. They tested it out in Africa in the 1960's and 1970's also in Central and South America (Don't cry for me Argentina...cry for yourself) and it worked like a charm. Greece is a test to see if it works in the 1st world. Btw don't buy the Germany vs Greece etc stuff. It's banks vs everyone else. Greece is to the EU banks (and American bond holding banks) what AIG was/is to Goldman Sachs. A conduit of cash from taxpayers to the bankers that makes it look like that money is being used to keep society (insurance, or greek social structure) from crumbling when its really just a transfer from taxpayers to bankers.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:22 | 2438749 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

who is the real mother of central banking?

evolution programmed humans (like other species) to take what they can have NOW. Reason can care for a future longer than one year ahead, instinct cannot. Instinct is stronger than reason. THIS is the REAL mother of the central-government-banking-fiat-ponzi: Fuck the future, fuck our children, fuck the sweatshop slaves, fuck the victims of petrodollar wars, fuck freedom, fuck the environment. I desperately NEED fancy car extras, holiday travel, electronic toys, designer furniture NOW, my neighbour/colleague/brother has them, too. I did the same most of my life, so I know what I am talking about. However, I did NOT know, like almost everyone STILL does not know: most of this wealth was printed, out of nothing and the purchasing power of this printed pieces of nothing comes from brutal force by the western world. I somehow always felt uncomfortable, but taking the red pill did not make me feel better, in contrary it is still painful to see the truth and to see the abyss in front of us, while having no idea if / how to return or get out of dodge.

PS: great post, BtG!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:58 | 2438827 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Your post made me think of monkey traps. Humans are not much different.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:11 | 2438340 MayerRothschild
MayerRothschild's picture

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:25 | 2438374 flacon
flacon's picture

Fuckin' pH Dees; always fuckin' with the laws of nature!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:12 | 2438342 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Wrong.  The cause is the stupidity of adopting a single currency for separate nation states with totally different economies and fiscal positions.   Multitudes of economists warned about the dangers and impracticalities of this when it was first suggested - not least being the way it would impoverish the peripheral countries leaving them with no flexibility to devalue their currencies to improve their competitiveness.

Now we are seeing the results of this stupidity.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:19 | 2438359 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

You really think this is an accident? Nope. It's a VERY well orchestrated and brilliantly executed plan. The thing is, it works best when people don't get it and are falling back on old hatreds. Germany vs. Greece, lazy vs hard working, Republican vs Democrat, Socialist vs Capitalist anything but what it really is. The masters of fractional reserve, interest bearing debt fiat currency vs everyone else. They will fail, but only once people see what's really going on.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:14 | 2438608 GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

A perfect plan and a perfect outcome for the planners. All the "sovereigns" and all the banks are bankrupt, while almost all of Europe is in depression and ready to accept the abject slavery of "The Only Solution". This time is not different.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:55 | 2438781 Bag Of Meat
Bag Of Meat's picture

The only reason I do not believe in long-term "conspiracy" plans is that people are TOO greedy to plan so much ahead... Especially this kind of people,bankers and politicians, they wouldnt plan anything for more than 5 years. They simply are too greedy.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:18 | 2438754 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

But mostly, totally different cultures.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:12 | 2438343 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture


But don't worry, BO and the libs will get socialism right this time, no really... Just like FDR and LBJ, really!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:44 | 2438414 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

yeah i saw stratfor and immediately yawned whilst evacuating my bowels. 


he failed to touch on financial fraud, economic terror or the fact that merkel was once called an unfuckable lard ass by silvio berlusconi.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:03 | 2438588 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

Quite a few times I thought it was a joke.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:07 | 2438596 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

who gave the poor mortgages they can't pay back?

who gave greece the loans they can't pay back?



Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:58 | 2439164 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Banks 'gave' mortgages to the poor because politicians told them to. I'm not excusing the money lenders entirely, but I remember many politicians insisting that poor folks be given mortgages so they could get rich, too, as home values increased. Then, when it all fell apart, the politicians shoveled money to the money lenders to fill the holes left by 'non-performing' loans. The money lenders should be allowed to fail and go bankrupt themselves. The politicians should be put in jail or at least put in the unemployment line.

But you failed to address the reverse: Who forced the poor to take mortgages they couldn't afford to pay back? And who forced Greece to take the loans?

All those willingly involved should suffer the consequences.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:07 | 2438176 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Good video.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:06 | 2438325 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

had to stop it at 2 minute mark couldn't stand to listen to that preppy douchebag college intern with his fake gay euro accent any longer

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:52 | 2438431 knukles
knukles's picture

Maybe it's not fake.
Almost all European men are gay.
That's why the kids look so fucked up.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:24 | 2438496 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Wow "Knukles"! And you're from...? Greenspan also looks so fucked up to me. And Bernake. And Merkel. And fucking Monti. And Rajoy. The "new" Hollande. Even Obama starts to look fucked up.

Everybody is taking a plane to meet with everybody. From outside they look as a preschool class with a lot of noisy kids running around with no direction.

I'm having headacke too. It seems Bilderberg's guys, Gruop of 30 and some other bright minds love too much middle age's castles...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:14 | 2438602 knukles
knukles's picture

Son, I'm from California.  The land of milk and honey.  The American Promised Land.  Land of Governor Moonbeam and Linda Ronstadt.  Home of Drugs, Sex and Rock& Roll.  Home of Hollywood and good solid clean Liberal Thinking.  I'm from the Land of Opportunity.  I'm from the land of Where America's Going and I can tell ya', it ain't pretty.  The land of free love and trendy thinkin'.  The land that mastered the 8 lane expressway that moves at 3 mph.  The Land of Eric Estrada and CHIPS, Batman, the Gong Show, the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Storage Wars.  Alas, I can take no credit for Jersey Shore. 
That's where I'm from, son.  The land where spectators are beat to death at baseball games and people are shot for wearing the wrong color hoodie.  The land where all the radioactive shit from Fukushima is gonna wash ashore and pollute the whole of America thereafter.  No son, it don't stop at the California border, just gets there, first..  The land where John Denver died... and they never found his head, BTW. 
Goddammit, the land of drive through churches and Sunday liquor sales.  The land of Disney, Calloway and hot rods.  The land where almost all America's green shit is grown.  Lots a cows, too.
Land of wine and immature egotistical people who take themselves way the fuck too seriously and can't even take a fucking joke.
Land of the consumer movement, feminism and plastic surgery.
That's right son, I'm from the Real America.
And if this is where America's going, then spend all you got while you got it, live for the moment, pretend there is no God but yourself, vote Democratic handing all your personal responsibilities over to the state thereby absolving yourself of any and all responsibility and party like it's Armageddon.
And nobody has a sense of humor anymore.
And its not civil.
Good luck grasshopper, as if being from any other place makes you any different.
And remember, you're not a fucking unique little snowflake (h/t Fight Club)

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:36 | 2438770 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Those who know and do nothing about it are worse than the sleeping sheep at least they have an excuse for their inaction, youre just scared, scared to take personal responsibility for your life and scared to stop cashing the welfare checks, if the american citizenry had 1% of the balls of the founding fathers you would still be contenders on the world stage.

America got fat and lazy and stupid, the rest of the world is waiting for the rabid dog to die and trying not to get bit before it expires.




Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:27 | 2438843 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

You've made my point. We're all fucked up, probably.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:20 | 2439035 Unique Snowflake
Unique Snowflake's picture

Superb rant. Poetic even.

You should send that off for use in the next Hollywood movie that requires an inspiring moment.

Incidentally, you're way the fuck off with your final line, says so right up there on the left.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 02:06 | 2438692 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

LOL that's a pretty retarded statement.

And all Americans are fat right?

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:23 | 2438762 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

No, just over half, though.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:23 | 2438761 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

No, not gay.  Not in Germany, anyway.  But demoralized due to the sins of their grandparents.  And many of them marry the UGLIEST women ever seen.  I swear, some German women must get up in the morning, look in the mirrors and ask themselves, "How can I be even uglier?"  Then, they color their hair red or purple or some hideous shade of orange.

Believe me, I LIKE Germans and I have lived here for years, but I report what I see.  Great looking guys married to women who look old enough to be their mothers.  Gives self-abuse a whole new meaning.

FTR, I married a Russian-Ukrainian, absolutely the hottest woman I know.  13 years, so far, of wedded ecstasy.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:42 | 2438775 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

You meant to say you paid for a Russian-Ukrainian bride from T'internet website.


Given your shallowness in valuing style over substance and form over function its blatantly obvious you paid for her, what woman with an oz of self esteem would have you if you didnt pay for it?


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:08 | 2438177 Concentrated po...
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.'s picture


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:10 | 2438184 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



It isn't "German" money.

Render unto Caesar…Germany does not itself conjure Euros.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:10 | 2438188 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

But Germany does not have enough money to bail out the periphery.

And it is too expensive for countries to leave the Euro zone.  A tiny country like Greece with a population of only 11 million and a GDP of $300 billion is estimated to cost $1 trillion to the EU if it secedes.

"One estimate put the cost to the eurozone of Greece making a disorderly exit from the currency at $1tn, 5% of output."

So it is a no win situation.  There is no money to support the PIIGS and it is too expensive for any country to secede.

So there will be no solution - just muddling along as long as possible.




Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:14 | 2438197 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Tha same could be said about states like California.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:21 | 2438209 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

But California has Facebook.

Yes, it is true of California and the US too.  Debts are too high to have any chance to be paid off.  Federal debt and unfunded liabilities per US taxpayer are $1,180,000 and growing at $80,000 a year.  There is no chance that they will ever be paid off.

The US and California will have no choice but to inflate their debts away.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:21 | 2438217 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

I wish things would just completely unwind in the world; my head hurts.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:32 | 2438240 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



No shit.  Give it a name.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:37 | 2438252 fasTTcar
fasTTcar's picture

I'll bite.  "Payback is a bitch".

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:49 | 2438286 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture




Haircuts are a bitch


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 05:03 | 2438800 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Karma is the mother of all bitches!


"You're gonna reap just what you sow" -

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:09 | 2438335 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Agree and the longer it takes to unwind the more all of our heads are gona hurt.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:29 | 2438235 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

The FED will cut them off and they will have to default.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:06 | 2439195 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

California is Amerika's Greece.  The feds might eventually cut them off, but only after sending them billions of the rest of the nation's tax dollars and only when continuing to bail out the People's Republic of Kalifornia is going to sink the rest of the nation forever.  That's why Greece is being yanked from the Euro was finally realized that it's a bottomless pit and they don't want Germany sucked down into that pit.  The problem is when to call enough, enough.  Germany is going to have a hell of a time recovering from holding Greece's hand and the average German resents the hell out of the average Greek.  Can you imagine the chaos in the USSA when the People's Republic of Kalifornia gets chopped off at the knees?  Saying "I just moved here from California" will be a death sentence that will be carried out by mobs wielding pitchforks and torches.

Kalifornia has the same problem as Greece...they've taught their population to rely upon the government for their existence, and any attempts to curb that dependence are met with anger and threats of voting for the other guy.  Politicians are cowards for the most part and they don't want to upset the status quo.  Plus, they want to keep their jobs.  So it's just endless can kicking and begging hat in hand to the people with the banker bucks for a helping hand.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:36 | 2438523 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Where do you think the gold came from to fund the north's takeover of the confederacy?  The union had to make CA a state right after the discovery, then build up a reserve for the next 10 years to overcome the south's paultry 15M in specie.

The money interests in NY shipped all the gold from SF to NY to bankroll the civil war.  What would happen if CA should demand it all back?

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:39 | 2439099 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

What would happen? Everyone would have a good laugh!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:10 | 2439205 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

California would find itself on the receiving end of piles of tungsten. There is no gold.

Alternatively - donning tin foil hat here - TPTB could use HAARP to create a major earthquake, sending most of California to the bottom of the ocean.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:51 | 2439407 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

" create a major earthquake, sending most of California to the bottom of the ocean."

A certain Nobel Laureate in Economics currently writing for the New York Times endorses this Keynesian option.  Think of the stimuli! 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:20 | 2438213 walküre
walküre's picture

The cost of Grexit cannot be measured accurately. Numbers are floating around but until it happens, there is no way of telling how much it would cost.

It's fearmongering by those trying to avoid a disorderly exit. Whatever. When a guy can't pay his bills and he's broke, then you try and go after some collateral. Failing that you just write it off, maybe make it back on another customer / member or just save somewhere else.

There are so many variables in this equation. I'd say let the chips fall where they may. Haircuts are healthy and could teach certain people a lesson or two about humility.

The sun will continue to rise in the East and set in the West and Germans will continue to afford their beer, bread, sausages and Mercedes, Audi and BMW.

Bailing out the broke guy year after year gets tiresome and it doesn't really help the guy in the long run.


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:53 | 2438296 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture


I agree, but it can't do much of anything while its is part of the EU and Eurozone. I don't think German taxpayers or the taxpayers of anywhere else in Europe should continue to fund this theft. It's not about Greece its about the banks. Read my post above. 

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:29 | 2438379 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I agree, but...

The likes of Goldman Sachs set up the means by which Greece could join the EU in the first place, hiding debt in such a way that it was disguised as an asset on a different set of books. Then GS turned around and shorted. 

It's like the subprime housing loans where you encourage the low credit rating folks to take on a loan they can't afford, help them lie on the paper work, and sell the loan into some MBS and sell that on forward. 

I could get mad at the folks with the low credit rating for doing it, but where are the real criminals in this?

All of the discussion I see on this topic ignores Goldman Sach's (and IBs like them) dressing Greece and Itally and Spain up as if they were credit worthy, when all the while the rest of the EU probably knew the damn score and let them in any way....

I wish someone could explain to me why none of these countries (like Greece or Germany for instance) pursue the idea that the contract is null and void because it happened under fraudlent means? I'm serious. Greece could say, "We won't pay because our crooked representatives misrepresented us and our means." Germany could say, "We won't loan to you any more because you misrepresented your  ability to pay."

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:58 | 2438441 knukles
knukles's picture

Fraudulent conveyance; extending credit to an entity knowing it cannot honor the obligation.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:20 | 2438492 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Thank you MsC for highlighting a major element of the planning of all of this. Not enough people do it.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:22 | 2439241 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I am of the opinion that the root of the problems lies in your phrase "our crooked representatives". The elected/selected politicians repeatedly allow/encourage/mandate these kinds of actions, and when these actions blow up they (the crooked representatives and cronies) just wink, nod, and stick it on the taxpayers. In this way it is no different whether one is talking about Europe or the USA.

I wonder what the results would be if Germany held a national referendum asking its citizens how much wealth they were willing to give, willingly and with no expectation of return, to Greece. Unfortunately, we cannot expect our crooked representatives to ever allow such a vote.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:37 | 2438255 CClarity
CClarity's picture

No entity has enough to bail out the debtors.  Debt does NOT equal wealth, but so many governments went all in thinking they'd be ahead of the wave.  

Oops . . . NOT!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:43 | 2438269 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Bingo. No solution... there or here. The same predicament, as Chris Mortensen would say (predicament vs. problem).

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:55 | 2438300 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Many debtors will do just about anything to avoid repaying the debt.  Ince they get the money and you have no real collateral - you are screwed.  The only ones who collect are The Mafia and Kenneth Dart.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:11 | 2438339 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Can't Ben just bail them out? Why not? It's working reasonably well  -there has been no fniancial Armedggon. The S&P is still over 1300. Let's give it a try. What other options do we have? Maybe this time is really different.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:26 | 2438763 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Too true.  What would the Germans do to make more tax money?  Raise my already ridiculous Einkommensteuer?  Even MORE ridiculous are the plans by the Senate Dems to take away tax advantages for expats.  Can you imagine?  50% to the Germans and 30% to the US.  Wow!  I'd be better off going on the dole.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:15 | 2438198 Blorf
Blorf's picture

It won't work if the Germans who want to transfer money to Greece by taking vacations there get beat up by the local populace for being German.  It's over, rip off the band-aid and deal with the consequences of the hubris. 

At the end of the day, Germany will choose to bail out German banks from their Greek investments by directly paying German banks instead of funneling money to them indirectly through a Greek Ministry of Finance that uses stolen shopping carts in Franz Kafka's basement as a filing system for tax returns.  German cost of borrowing is PLUMMETING on a daily basis with respect to Spain/Italy/Portugal, much less Greece.  There is no way they don't go with this option.


"There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."  - Ludwig von Mises


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:27 | 2438229 JackT
JackT's picture

Agreed. And how much is the German Cental Bank owed by just private businesses in the Periphery?

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:13 | 2439215 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"Greek Ministry of Finance that uses stolen shopping carts in Franz Kafka's basement as a filing system for tax returns"

I'm gonna have that image in my head all day now.  +1 for the belly laugh!

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:18 | 2438210 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Had to login to give kudos to this one " through a Greek Ministry of Finance that uses stolen shopping carts in Franz Kafka's basement as a filing system for tax returns."

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:22 | 2438219 l1b3rty
l1b3rty's picture

political calculation? Probably technocratic execution via politicial cover...

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:22 | 2438220 RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

This guy sounds French.  Of course he wants Germany to give money to the Periphery and transfer soverignty to Belgium.

We went through this in the US.  It was called the Civil War.

Imagine if after the Civil War the US created a system with:

1.  No Federal Taxes

2.  No Transfers from rich states to poor states

3.  Allowed poor states UNLIMITED borrowing from the rich states at highly subsidized interest rates.

Then after the poor states borrowed a ton of money to rebuild themselves, the "Carpet Baggers" asked for their money back.  We'd have a Civil War EVERY 10 years.

Same thing is happening in Europe.

Eiather these guys have to accept:

A.  FULL POLITICAL UNION where the existing 27 members resemble our STATES with 80% of the taxing power residing in Brussels, massive transfers from the rich states to the poor states IN PERPETUITY and a very powerful federal government


B.  Political soverignty for each COUNTRY with separate currencies and credit ratings / borrowing capabillity.

I'm thinking they will take option B.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:31 | 2438239 jamezelle
jamezelle's picture

I hope so.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:57 | 2438311 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Well of course that's what common sense dictates. I imagine that HAS to be the feeling of the majority of people in Europe. The EU hasn't been around that long its not enshrined as some cornerstone of life. Most folks bitched about the inflation the Euro caused incessantly when I was travelling there a few years back and that was during the GOOD times. So the question is, why is B) NEVER discussed in the media? Why is it always CLAIMED in the media that Europeans are SOOOO in love with the Euro? Could it be that point A is the DESIRE of the architects of the EU? Could it also be that they might in fact have all the politicians bought and sold much like in the US? Could be...could be.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:23 | 2438497 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

The point being that the politicians and the banksters AND the media have all failed us terribly. Many people miss the media's willing participation in all of this and are instead swayed by it. They call it programming for a reason. That's what it is.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:12 | 2438337 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

That's a Spanish accent. He's likely Argentinian with an Italian surname.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:34 | 2438636 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

He should learn to pronounce the French president correctly. Regardless of that, the report is extremely superficial.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:18 | 2438357 cartonero
cartonero's picture

Option A in Europe means Germany eventually turns into Michigan.  Option B in the US means Mississippi eventually turns into Greece.  Either way, sooner or later somebody gets it up the ass.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:56 | 2438873 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

A. FULL POLITICAL UNION where the existing 27 members resemble our STATES with 80% of the taxing power residing in Brussels, massive transfers from the rich states to the poor states IN PERPETUITY and a very powerful federal government


B. Political soverignty for each COUNTRY with separate currencies and credit ratings / borrowing capabillity.

A offers the possibility of escaping the past.

B, not so much.

Most US citizens living in Europe are aware of this. Past deeds'consequences are looming ahead, the US citizen recipes to grow richer are well known now around the world. No US citizens living in Europe would like to be trapped by the past. Too much bad blood.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:25 | 2439050 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:


A offers the possibility of escaping the past.

B, not so much.

A offers the possibility of kicking the can.

B, not so much.

Most Chinese citizenism citizens living in Europe are aware of this. Past meals' consequences are looming ahead, the Chinese citizenism citizen recipes to pollute roadsides are well known now around the world. All Chinese citizenism citizens living in Europe would like to have roadside crapped in the past. Too much indoor plumbing.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:31 | 2439290 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

The political union in the US is cracking at the seams, why would anyone be stupid enough to repeat that mistake?

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:27 | 2438227 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

Isn't he one of the Sesame Stree voices?

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:35 | 2438242 q99x2
q99x2's picture

What is a political calculation?

Something that reality erases and then replaces with facts.

Prayer has worked for me in the past.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:33 | 2438246 vincent
vincent's picture

Are we not back to one of the original questions?  Can anybody be allowed to exit? Will anybody exit? Rickards says no.

Political vs. econominc decision makes sense, as the can kicking must continue.

A mass exodus signals the end of the game. The criminals are not prepared for that just yet.

I'll go with EU QE, then USA. They have no other option.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:33 | 2438248 surf0766
surf0766's picture

There is only one solution. Default. Each country goes back to its' own currency. No one should transfer anything to another group of asshats to steal. Has the world not learned it's lesson yet? History is being repeated right in front of our eyes.


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:34 | 2438251 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

The Eurozone is as secure as that handshake at 3.32min.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:39 | 2438258 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

A hopelessly naive analysis, as if ceding sovereign power to Brussels will solve the problem. Very disappointing. Stratfor assumes that the burden of subsidizing the periphery can be hidden from the German people if Brussels can deprive the German electorate of any power over the outcome. Sorry, but there is no political solution that will allow the current European debt balloon to continue in operation. All roads that prop up the current system lead to hyperinflation.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:45 | 2438660 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

The solution of pollution has been always dilution. In other words the United States of Europe are a done deal. It will come through the back door as ESM. When people wake up, it will be too late. And Germany has no choice, because of   a 700 bln Target2 balance without collateral. The ECB (Draghi, Italian, Ex-Goldman) has all the power now.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:47 | 2438279 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



O/T, but somewhat related:

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:50 | 2438292 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

that was the most boring explanation i have ever heard

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:53 | 2438297 bingo was his name
bingo was his name's picture

Most people forget that USA form of government pre-consitution (Articles of Confederation) which provided a very weak central government and no method of paying off the war debt of the states.

Per Wikipedia

The Articles were created by delegates from the states in the Second Continental Congress out of a need to have "a plan of confederacy for securing the freedom, sovereignty, and independence of the United States." After the war, nationalists, especially those who had been active in the Continental Army, complained that the Articles were too weak for an effective government. There were no president, no executive agencies, no judiciary and no tax base. The absence of a tax base meant that there was no way to pay off state and national debts from the war years except by requesting money from the states, which seldom arrived.

In 1788, with the approval of Congress, the Articles were replaced by the United States Constitution and the new government began operations in 1789.[9]


Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:01 | 2438319 surf0766
surf0766's picture

You quote WIKI... Sorry I just thought it was funny. The only people I know who use WIKI are college professors who tell their students not to use WIKI.


And 1791 we got the bill of rights.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:29 | 2438380 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Fuck Enron, ZH has the smartest guys in the room.



Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:40 | 2438403 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

Oh Wiki, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind...

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:02 | 2438446 knukles
knukles's picture

Which was later abolished without a whimper at the dawn of the 21st century.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:42 | 2438654 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Now you have strong Federal Government and no means of paying off the War Debt of the Feds.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:55 | 2438299 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

The borrower is slave to the lender.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:26 | 2438376 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

This is still true: If you owe the bank 100,000, it's your problem.  If you owe the bank 100 million, it's the bank's problem and they'll keep you afloat forever.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 22:55 | 2438303 Alexandros
Alexandros's picture


...the barbarians, who forced beautiful Europe to get down Zeus’ “back” and made her a prostitute.

...the unworthy Europeans, who in 1945 “took Europe down” from “Mount Olympus” and in 2012 relinquished “enslaved” Europe to the Phoenician loan sharks.


World War III ...The first private war in history

Those who won all battles shall lose the war.



Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:07 | 2438327 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Garmans are a superior race. The cultural hub of Western civilization. The land of Beethoven, Bach, Brahams and the great Mozart.   The country of Dirk (the great One" Nowitzki. We never should have fought against them in WW1 and WW2.The world would have been a better place if we had just stayed out and minded our own business.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:14 | 2438350 jomama
jomama's picture

there is no 'superior race'.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:33 | 2438635 Taffy Lewis
Taffy Lewis's picture

Thai females are a superior race.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:49 | 2438426 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

"Superior race".

Shit. Lucky I'm blonde with green eyes, but I'm having worries about my kids 'cos their father is a patagonian Tehuelche!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:03 | 2438447 knukles
knukles's picture

My schnauzer has worms.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:11 | 2438605 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

Savy, we fought Beethoven, Bach, Brahams and  Mozart in WW1 and WW2? The Garmans may not be a superior race, but they make a fine hand-held GPS!

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:31 | 2438632 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Germans had a superior intellectual and artistic culture spanning from Gutenberg to Husserl - 4 centuries. And yes, German composers from the high baroque to the late romantic were among the finest the world has ever seen.


That's all gone now and it's not coming back any time soon. At the turn of the (19th-20th) century Europe choose a new path, and in so doing it committed cultural suicide.


Seeing the Europe of today, one can only hang one's head in disbelief.


I'm just a hopeless euromantic.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:41 | 2438648 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

That's easy.  WW1  created Bolshevism in Russia. WW2 was to smash Bolshevism from spreading after it destabilised Germany after 1919 - and Britain chose to prop up Stalin with US help despite peace deals from 1939-1943 being offered. It was a European geopolitical game which culminated in the Morgenthau Plan pushed by Stalin to stop Germany being Russia's Nemesis in Europe.

France was traditionally Russia's ally, and Britain got dragged in to unbalance the European power structures - but always needed the US to supply the kit and Russia the manpower once it had turned a European dispute into a global one

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 04:31 | 2438792 Olympia
Olympia's picture


History shall repeat itself in a far greater scale and therefore the benefit for the leading roles shall be much greater. If ancient Greeks won the battle against the barbarity of the East in favour of Europe, then modern Greeks are those who are meant to win the battle against the barbarity of both Eastern and Western world in favour of the human kind. The world has become a little “village” and in this “village” everyone knows what the character of the others is.

The German traitors of Europe along with the Phoenicians from Asia may have forced Europe to get down from the "back” of the Greek “bull”, but it remains to be seen how they shall pull it through with the “bull”.



Fri, 05/18/2012 - 07:02 | 2438879 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Germans are like Phoenicians:indo-europeans.

Both came from Asia. It is useless to distinguish between the two on that point.

All Indo-europeans are not European Indigenous. They are Asian Indigenous.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 08:31 | 2439070 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Chinese citizenism citizens are not Asian Indigenous. They are Easter Islandian Indigenous.


Fri, 05/18/2012 - 09:20 | 2439239 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Also, the land of Hitler.

I'm hoping like hell you forgot the </sarc> tag there.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:13 | 2438347 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

easy, turn those broke countries into sweatshops and have Germnay those sweatshop taskmasters and compete with China/India in the cheapest goods and labor.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:18 | 2438356 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

As long as they try to fix a debt problem by adding more debt, it won't work for long. Shame on banks who helped Greece hide their piss poor situation off balance sheet. Goldman Sachs should be accountable for much of this mess.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:20 | 2438361 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Yo, FUCK Barroso.

Thu, 05/17/2012 - 23:44 | 2438413 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

It appears that austerity has already begun in the core with Adriano's shirt and is no spreading to the periphery of his haircut

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:09 | 2438461 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Way I've been seeing it all along is the solution is integration/federal EU state.  But that it ain't gonna happen.  Nationalism = too much national pride in history and fiscal policy to give it up to Brussels.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 07:45 | 2438947 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

So ,we have progressed exactly nowhere in 150 years.

The two forces that caused such bedlam in the 19th and

20th century are in full resurgence.Nationalism vs socialism.

Homo Sapiens are an evolutionary dead end.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 00:10 | 2438466 prains
prains's picture

unt zee katch 22 iz a gunt

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:08 | 2438598 Olympia
Olympia's picture

How is it possible that the European Union allows the weak states to enter the international money market and borrow the money they need without help – based on their own potentials? How is it possible that the “chain” of interests of euro can let its weak “links” exposed to outside pressuresHow is it possible for a “herd” with common interests to let each “ship” defend itself against the wolves, without help, and its general security threatened? How is it possible for Greece, which represents a minor 3% of the Eurozone’s economy, to be allowed to threaten the other 97% of that economy, due to the latter’s weakness?

The European Union should be the one borrowing from the national banking system – thus dealing with profiteers itself based on its overall potential – not its weak “links” alone. The latter should be under the EU’s protection and constant monitoring. They should borrow from it at a subsequent time and if they became victims of profiteering, the problem should be kept in the bosom of the euro. Domestic profiteering should bring profits to Europe’s influentials, therefore bring profits in the euro area, and not threaten it.

From the Wall Street Crash of 1929 to the Global Financial Crisis of 2007


Authored by Panagiotis Traianou

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:35 | 2438638 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The European Union should be the one borrowing from the national banking system

What a strange notion. How can that be ? You want to abolish the ECB now ? How can a Central Bank borrow from insolvent national banks when it is funding them through TARGET2.  Greeks are being funded by Germans and have a well-funded Central Bank - go lookat TARGET2

Or do you want the Greek State to expropriate ALL private property to fund the Central Bank so it can lend to the EU to bail ourt Portugal ?

You have a simple choice - TARGET2 or Basle Swaps

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:38 | 2438851 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

If you think far ahead, perhaps it was the intention of TPTB for the "Euro" to fail after all nation-state economies were wrapped together. You have one super-crash of fiats and one Reset, backed by NATO, to enforce a 1-world currency. War and various biologiocal weapons can be used to get the population into a more "manageable" state.

War-What is it good for?

Huge profits.

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 06:52 | 2438867 Olympia
Olympia's picture

World War III - The First Private War in History


Those who won all battles shall lose the war.

Bilderberg Group and the crimes against humanity.


This is how things work in all countries. Whatever used to belong to their people, today it belongs to the multinational companies of the Club. People were betrayed by their given leaderships and they lost everything. Capitals and markets were handed to the Club bosses. If you understand what is going on in Greece, you can understand what is going on in Britain, France, and Germany etc..



Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:15 | 2438610 q99x2
q99x2's picture

"Europe could strengthen its monetary union by giving European politicians the power to declare a sovereign state bankrupt and take over its fiscal policy, the former head of the European Central Bank said on Thursday in unveiling a bold proposal to salvage the euro.--Trichet"

Then if they don't go along they move in NATO peace keeping forces. That's the bankster's NWO style. Get ready to be taken over once they bankrupt you and take you hostage. 

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 01:31 | 2438631 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

What is this "Europe" that makes all these Decisions ? It is the same "Europe" that is lobbying to abolish the Death Penalty in the USA ? Why hasn't "Europe" instructed Congress to implement legislation ? This "Europe" is clearly All-Powerful and can demand and instruct and order. It will no doubt instruct Moodys and S&P. Europe as you proclaim is the fount of ALL power and can order its Subject Peoples into combat and imprison them in Gulags for non-compliance.

As for "NATO" Peacekeeping Forces - there are a few in Afghanistan not doing particularly well, and a few in Kosovo but why do you think American troops could hold Spain together ? The Italian Government wants troops to guard Tax Marxist terms that is the end - when The STate has to defend its Revenue Collection with armed soldiers it is finished

Fri, 05/18/2012 - 03:00 | 2438742 GernB
GernB's picture

The whole concept of bankruptcy has been perverted here to the point where the term has almost lost meaning. In what universe is it fair for the people of a sovergn nation to make financial decisions for the peoples of another sovergn nation. This is nuts. This is what happens when you decide freedom is irrelevent and each individuals state enforced responsibility to their fellow citizens, as defined by their benefactors, is what matters.

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