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As Expected, Ireland Is First To Demand Debt Relief In Greek Bailout Aftermath
When we commented on the October 26 European "EFSF Bailout" which has since been long forgotten, the one take home message from the embedded 50% cut in Greece debt is that "this means that Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Italy will promptly commence sabotaging their economies (just like Greece) simply to get the same debt Blue Light special as Greece." This was followed up by a post that half confirmed or thesis: "Bloomberg notes that Ireland has not even waited for the ink to be dry before sending out feelers on just what the possible "rewards" may be: "Greece’s failure to cut spending and boost revenue by enough to meet targets set by the European Union and International Monetary Fund prompted bondholders to accept a 50 percent loss on its debt. While Ireland won’t seek debt discounts, the government might pursue other relief given to Greece, including cheaper interest payments on aid and longer to repay it, according to a person familiar with the matter who declined to be identified as no final decision has been taken." There is one very important addition here: "While Ireland won't seek debt discounts" yet." A month later, the "yet" is "now."
As Telegraph's Ambrose Evans Pritchard reports, "The Irish government has suddenly complicated the picture by requesting debt relief from as a reward for upholding the integrity of the EU financial system after the Lehman crisis, though there is no explicit linkage between the two issues. "We carried an undue burden for protecting the European banking system from contagion," said finance minister Michael Noonan. "We are looking at ways to reduce the debt. We would like to see our European colleagues address this in a positive manner. Wherever there is a reckless borrower, there is also a reckless lender," he said, alluding to German, French, British and Dutch banks." In other words, (s)quid (after all who can forget Goldman International Chairman Peter Sutherland's role in the Irish bank bail out) pro quo, Clarice. Oh, and lest anyone think that the debt relief demands ends here, don't be silly: Italy is coming. Very soon.
From The Telegraph:
Mr Noonan hinted that Dublin is asking for some of interested relief on a €31bn EU promissory noted linked to the Anglo Irish fiasco, among other matters.
Mr Noonan said Ireland's public mood has turned very sour.
"We have indicated to Europe's authorities that it will be difficult to get the Irish public to pass a referendum on treaty change," he said.
The EU's new fiscal rules would be legally binding and "justiciable" before the European Court, he said. This raises the likelihood that Ireland's top court would insist on a referendum.
The Irish voted `No' to both the Nice and Lisbon Treaties, before being pressured into repeat ballots, and would certainly some form of quid pro quo in this case.
Ah, there's that phrase again.
Ireland took on the bulk of the debt from its oversized banking system in 2008, resisting a chorus of calls for the country to follow Iceland's example and walk away from private bank liabilities. Had Ireland done so, it might have set off a catastrophic chain reaction across Britain and Europe.
The fateful move has saddled the taxpayers with colossal losses from Anglo Irish and other banks, and will push public debt to near 118pc of GDP by 2014. There is a widespread resentment in Ireland that taxpayers were sacrificed for the greater cause of Europe without receiving any acknowledgement from the EU's creditor states.
And so forth. Yet who can blame the Irish people - it is perfectly in their right to demand bank impairments. We wish them luck. We also urge them to promptly depose of the GS International Chairman as cleanly and efficiently as possible. Because in the meantime who has already benefitted? Artist's rendering below.
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Reminds me of the book "Me too Iguana" in the Sweet Pickles series books as a younger person.
Iguana always wanted what everyone else had. Ireland sure as hell ain't the last one that will be saying "me too"
Of course "Elephant eats the profits" story can be plugged into about any damn article on this website
Iguana must have been an OWS drone.
éirigh amach.......bitchezz.......!
Go Icelandic* (despite the dire warnings of the 'responsible' banksters about how a large comet will wipe out your nation) and break the fractional reserve bankster racketeering Ponzi.
If the debt allegedly owed found its origin in fiat that was printed at zero cost basis by a fractional reserve bank, with said fiat having no inherent wealth & being tied to nothing of inherent value, let the Money Masters stew over their 0% loss as you default with your chin held high (they conjured the 'loan basis' from thin air at no cost to them and have nothing to lose; this is a provable fact).
It's time for a global purge after the 250+ year fractional reserve banking binge to allow the world to get back to an economic system based on common sense and moral financial values (i.e. do not pay interest on phantom & illusory debt shoved upon alleged sovereign nations as a result of treasonous representative legislatures selling their collective souls to the Money Masters).
Die, Money Master parasites, die.
*Compare how Iceland is faring versus how Ireland or Greece is faring at present; can you tell who is thriving and who is dying?
There needs to be a +1000000 button for outstanding comments, but +1 will have to do....
It's too late. The money is already paid out to the banks. And to be fair, while a large chunk of it was clearly paid out at gunpoint, under menaces from the ECB, Geithner and friends, other large chunks were paid out pretty willingly as the Irish state tried to keep its precious darlings the banks alive. So all we can do now is demand that other people's taxpayers cover part of the bill for us. Well, at least until and unless further losses at the banks blow through all the money they've been given already. But that could never happen ...
The only thing that large comet will wipe out is them. And the horrible things that will happen, will happen to them. Understand this simple fact: Any country needs four or five banks. You do not need those four banks. Ireland does not need Allied Irish or Bank of Ireland or anything like that. Let them die and start two new banks in their place with fresh capital that can support the economy. It will be much cheaper and much more effective. And the US does not need GS or City or BOA or JPM. It needs a few healthy banks. It will be cheaper and more effective to set them up instead of perpetually bailing out those asses. And we need the FED/ECB like JFK needed a hole in his head.
But who will invest in the new banks if they've all lost their money in the old, and if the old banks go bust, how will the govt make good on lost deposits if they can't sell the same levels of soon-to-be-defaulted debt to new banks that won't buy it because the last banks that did went bust as a consequence?
very confused comment. deposits (and their insurance) and bank equity/bonds (and their bailouts) are quite different. also u.s. banks didn't become insolvent because they bought u.s. treasury bonds (yet)
'Yet' is the operative word, and the govt can't fund FDIC without selling bonds to raise the money, or just plain printing it...
Fractional reserves make it easier to borrow money (and of course generate more profit for banks). Regardless of how easy it is to borrow money, if you live beyond your means there will be unavoidable negative consequences. Live within your means and you will be secure and the banks will not make excessive profits. Countries with excess debt have no one to blame but themselves.
I was in the process of writing a lengthy response to your sloppily written statements, whereby you even failed to draw the critical distinction between commercial banks which depend upon the Federal Reserve Bank for capitalization with federal reserve notes (conjured from thin air, backed by nothing of intrinsic value), and then I decided to write a bare minimum of a response, because chances are, I'd be wasting my time.
Here are some buzz words and phrases that you can utilize to understand why this distinction is critical, though:
Fractional Reserve Banking
Modern Money Mechanics
Gold Standard
Monetary Base
Fiat Currency
Dilution
Roman Currency (or coins) Post-Marcus Aurelius
Ludwig von Mises
Full Reserve Banking
Rothbard on Fractional Reserve Banking: A Critique
Kaldor-Hicks Efficiency and the Problem of Central Planning
Milton Friedman
Alan Greenspan's Thoughts On Abandonment of a Gold Standard (pre-Federal Reserve Days)
That's enough for now, but give me a more specific reason as to why my thoughts on Iceland are incorrect in your opinion, or whether you honestly think you can support your contention that the present crisis debt-saturated sovereigns have today is the predominant result of individuals comprising society being able to overload their respective nations' balance sheets with unpayable levels of debt, after you make a critical and necessary distinction between "banks" and "fractional reserve banking," if you so choose to do so.
Wow you are strange. I stand by my comments. I am not defending the banks. But they would be much less problematic if people borrowed much less money.
Why am I strange to ask of you, as a baseline minimum, to concede that "banks" or "banking" and "fractional reserve banks" or "fractional reserve banking" are not only not the same thing, as your comments at least implied, but that they're not even in the same ballpark (or universe).
You were responding to my initial comments on Iceland's response to the debt problem it faced, correct, when you failed to make that distinction?
Just drop him. He probably works for the TSA, and thinks the body scanners won't give him dick cancer.
Truth, are you guys even arguing about the same thing? Peak seems to be saying that if people/countries borrowed less then we wouldn't have this problem, which is correct, and you seem to be saying that if the money was not originally loaned from real capital then it should not need to be repaid or honored, which is fair enough. Personally I find it stunning that China can create currency from thin air and use it to buy US or other foreign assets. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.
What is the point of the argument?
For what it's worth, my view is that Iceland is doing as well as any debtor suddenly relieved of its burden of debt but it only does well for as long as nobody else has defaulted. When they do and the global economy falls apart they will not fair nearly as well and we might then see a different story. In the long run we will all need to live with the consequences of a global default, but we might need a few billion fewer people on the planet before we can be comfortable with it.
Seems to me that we need to go back to gold backing for a generation or two before humanity embarks on the next round of fiat before it again collapses and we go back to gold backing again and so on and so on. It is a cycle, that's all.
A parasite lives in a close relationship with another organism, its host, and causes it harm. The parasite is dependent on its host for its life functions. For example, viruses & central banksters are common parasites. The parasite has to be in its host to live, grow, and multiply. Parasites rarely kill their hosts. A common, well-known type of a parasite is the Goldman Sachs Affiliate or former employee/consultant or Treasury Secretary. It can attach itself in the lining of the common sense of the politician and cause diseases such as insider trading, Swiss Bank Account and malnutrition as well, as they eat the nutrients and keep them from going to the host.
The most successful parasites bleed their victims to the point of feebleness, weakness and mental opaqueness, but do not kill their hosts, as they benefit from cultivating as long of a parasite-host (also referred to as master-slave) relationship as possible, lest they risk an interim period of no immediate food source while searching for a new host upon which to attach their squid-like sucking mechanism to, and if such a substitute host is not found in time, the parasite that kills its former host risks death itself.
"It's time for a global purge after the 250+ year fractional reserve banking"
An Outright Ban on Fractional Reserve Counterfeiting
Your post is like a ray of sunshine reflecting off of The Bernank's bald noggin...
why not?
http://expose2.wordpress.com
Default already!
not before they're ordered into bankruptcy first! (in other news...a civilization of plankton like creatures were discovered on Mars. Not only do they have oil...THEY ARE OIL! All of Planet Earth is in a mad rush to launch tens of thousands of spacecraft loaded with bankers to "get the green to the green." the world waits with bated breath! back to you at HQ!)
This just in...
JPM Hater001 demands debt relief deal equal to Greek Haircut. Wife says fuck off... Keeps spending.
They have sooooo much in common.
Better hire more barbers to cover all the lined-up haircut customers . This might be the new fad.
Going long clippers, short Rogaine.
It's either Guillotines or KY ..
(And just think of all those hungry sharks out there..The 'solution' could serve two purposes..
Even considered a 'Green' project..)
And with all the 'War Drums' being beaten:
War is an economis event.. But not a good option.. As long as tptb can get all the
folks fighting each other, tptb can make lots more $$ and no one faces the Guillotines..
Moral hazard on a global scale, ah, the screwed up times we live in.
What that Irish guy said.
Here's another Irish guy. He's a commodities (floor) trader. This is his assessment from two months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJY-ZXIleG8
The OWS crowd needs this.
That's a happy looking squid right there.
And hungry too.
There will definitely have to be a squid pro quo.
How about discounts on Guiness then.
no, you gotta pay for that. here's some Cod juice though!
"We have indicated to Europe's authorities that it will be difficult to get the Irish public to pass a referendum on treaty change," he said.
It's a referendum. You don't 'get' them to do anything.
+1 well said
You haven't been following this EU thing for long right?
Yup.
They're only short now of appointing a Viceroy.
Democracy be damned.
Ireland hippy nation
ireland hippy as in dont get haircuts... doh
Never forget how DSK was neutralized when the IMF under his command had to be forcefully corrected by the squid via sock puppet Geithner
"Ireland’s Last Stand began less shambolically than you might expect. The IMF, which believes that lenders should pay for their stupidity before it has to reach into its pocket, presented the Irish with a plan to haircut €30 billion of unguaranteed bonds by two-thirds on average. Lenihan was overjoyed, according to a source who was there, telling the IMF team: “You are Ireland’s salvation.”
The deal was torpedoed from an unexpected direction. At a conference call with the G7 finance ministers, the haircut was vetoed by US treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who, as his payment of $13 billion from government-owned AIG to Goldman Sachs showed, believes that bankers take priority over taxpayers. The only one to speak up for the Irish was UK
chancellor George Osborne, but Geithner, as always, got his way. An instructive, if painful, lesson in the extent of US soft power, and in who our friends really are."
A few weeks later the Sofitel incident took place. Not suggesting DSK is innocent on that. I guess it was quite useful to have a man with such behavioral issues on a position like that, just in case he leaned the wrong way. Which he did
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html
paul?
paul harvey?
Peter Paul... Mounds or Almond Joy??
tiochadh ar la!
Que pasa? Sorry, I don't speak Klingon.
"Sieg Heil!" is a good non-literal translation.
The Irish should be very concerned when the ECB do their print job, as the EUR gets killed, oil is hedged and Ireland is done...as is pretty much the whole EZ now. The German bond auction flop!!! F*ck!
Erin sez go fuck yerself
or:
It's the end of the euro and I feel fein.
I will believe the fookin Irish when they lynch their mick Goldman stooge traitors and those f**king tax cheats in U2 - Bono, The Edge, Adam and the other one Opie or Seamus or gaytard..
Just who the hell do those damn Irish think they are?! Iceland?!
I did actually recommend about a year ago(on a temporary basis of course) that Ireland could actually change its name to "Iceland." That way whenever "the phone rang" they could simply say "no, this is Iceland" and "we're sorry you dialed the wrong number again."
Go on the Irish! Hopefully the IRA pay a wee visit to some beaurucrats over the weekend while they are not expecting it, and deliver a few heads on a platter William Wallace style at the next G7 conference!
To quote Bill Murray in 'What About Bob,' .........
I WANT, I NEED, I WANT, I NEED........PLEEEEZE.......
This is the battle cry of the subconscious mind in every human being created since the fall of man. Socialism, communism, and faciism all secretly encourage this relentless cry by sanctioning our own needs, regardless of how unrealistic our needs are in the face of others' needs. Fiat monetary systems then enable the plunder, and then the plunder of the plunderer, until nothing remains. To those of us who recognize that we still live in the dim shadow of a Constitutional Republic, say a prayer for our destiny tomorrow.
100% behind the Irish people. They got screwed with all this debt that they did not create. Hope they purge the system. Great beautiful country and good people.
Allow me give you an update on the "Great beautiful country and good people".
The country is not "Great".
Parts of it are beautiful.
Parts of it are like the worst of Detroit.
The people are not "good". They are people.
The people keep voting for the same corrupt politicians that your "people" vote for.
The "people" want their politicians to be corrupt. Because the people are corrupt.
You need to get over the fairy stories you have heard about Ireland.
It is a deeply corrupt country.
Well to the Irish credit - they did vote against joining the euro but they were made to vote again until they "got it right."
On the other hand - they gave the world the Kennedys, tax frauds U2, Sineaid O'Connor. The same Irish love Clinton and Obama.
Leprechauns and good-hearted drunken belligerents, all of them!
and it rains a lot...
and some
but first, a song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_EPsuOEH1fY
Noonan needs some money to buy the Irish people - we have already established we are whores given we were prepared to backtrack on Lisbon 1 and vote in Lisbon 2 "to prevent recession"
Its now merely a question of price.................................. but we are cheap anyway so a few quid should be good enough for a Double penetration.
Speak for yourself and the politician you voted for.
This game is not over by a long shot.
OK the majority of the population are Whores - is that PC enough for you ?
At least we avoided the recession anyhow - Thank God.
I'm not interested in PC.
I am however interested that you think it easy to label an entire country, your own, as a Whore.
But hey, whatever floats your boat.
You just called the country corrupt directly above me for Christ sake - Its OK for Lord Welligton I guess.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3E5vYNzrds
The Country is corrupt.
The people have been corrupted by a false money system. A system of debt.
They will awake to it.
On joining the EU largess (false money) was doled out to corrupt and it succeeded.
Now we have 1,000,000 (give or take) dependent on the State for their livelihood.
The EU has, deliberately, corrupted Ireland as it has done with each of its possessions.
The game is not over.
"I am however interested that you think it easy to label an entire country, your own, as a Whore."
Cause the Irish are quite a bit like the Greeks but with shamrocks and better beer. I mean the f**king Kennedys are Irish.
Still - at least the Greeks never inflicted something really dreadful on the world - those f**king hypocrite tax cheats - U2 with their incredibly banal and tedious music.
Dork, the veracity of your post has upset me. Wish it were not so, but afraid it is.
Look on the bright side. EU bribes helped build some beautiful things like sailing schools out in West Cork.
Still owe you a Murphy's. Hope to have the opportunity some day. Maybe afterwards, you will take me up to piss on the blarney stone like in the book?
Too late for the Asgard though - bad timing and a absurd Minister was just unlucky I guess
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_II
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKLVv6nCsvU
Wouldn't suprise me if you didn't start hearing of more ships like the Eksund.
Dublin penetration?
That squid photo - it should be stuck onto a human face. Perhaps in one of Banzai's next installments :-)
I recall when the TARP bailout money started flowing. Suddenly AXP, MS, GS, etc. became "Bank Holding Companies" so they'd qualify for the money. No moral hazzard there!
Fast forward to Greece receiving 50% debt relief. All the other stressed Eurozone sovereigns will obviously queue up to receive their debt relief too. The "Bank Holding Companies" ain't gonna like that moral hazzard one bit. Har.
When BNP and Soc Gen blow up, the Irish need only insist it is the responsibility of the French Government, not the ECB or anyone else to make whole the bondholders. Afterall that is what Nick Sarkozy told the Irish. Oh, and Ireland might also want to veto any effort to do otherwise in the name of 'harmonizing' bank bailouts.
may we ass-u-me the damned dog ate their homework, too?
couldn't get a cab? tux @ the cleaners?
i kinda feel sorry for them---bragging about how much they have sacrificed for britain and the EU. after they were pressured into repeat ballots until they got it right
er, i mean wrong...
...i think...right?
You are right they are not right in that they were wrong wrong wrong.
so, if 2 'wrongs' don't make a 'right', perhaps three will do it?
Correct Mr pi-rat,
Democracy died in Europe a long time ago.
Our only hope now is that the banks die before the shiny boots get on the streets of Berlin and Dublin.
Let me be clear here.
The Irish Government are scum.
Noonan is scum.
Noonan has no intention of upsetting the apple cart.
He is scum.
His pension depends on him being scum.
You can't fail to mention Ken Cardiff here. For those just tuning in, Mr. Cardiff is the senior civil servant in the Irish Department of Finance. His fingerprints are all over the Irish bank guarantee under the last government - and the mysterious alleged €3.6bn accounting error in Ireland's public debt under the current one. In response, the new government is ... nominating him to the European Court of Auditors!
Exactly.
That's how the scum work.
The fucker should have been fired.
If he wanted to take a case for unfair dismissal then let him at it.
let's have it all out in open Court.
But no.
The scum Fine Gale and Labour Party would rather pay him off like they did Patrick Neary.
They are scum. Every single one of them.
bring back the IRA ...only point them Dublin-way
i'm sure it's coming to that some time soon
Pure fucking Goldman Sachs Nation hating scum.
The gallows is to good for him.
Pure scum.
BITCHEZ!
all the world is nigger rich!
The states can blame Gramm-Leach-Bliley for the distruction of Glass-Steagall Act....thus triggering the down fall of the US economy.........can the Euro zone also blame Gramm-Leach-Bliley for these weapons of financial destruction being dropped on thier pods.......?Nevermind.............I dont know what I was thinking of course they are to blame......GLB is the root to all the financial and economic turmoil around the globe.........
Kondratiev Spring > Irish Spring
I sh*t myself laughing when I read this :
"(s)quid (after all who can forget Goldman International Chairman Peter Sutherland's role in the Irish bank bail out) pro quo, Clarice"
Could literally hear Hopkin's voice.......
Anyway, precedent has been set. Portugal will come shortly after and we'll all be taking 'volutary' cuts on our government notes because we're all just super-nice benevolent chaps.............
USD selling pressure continues and the prospect of an equity xmas rally and EURUSD bullish spike returns.
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
we're entering the 'Begging Bowl Phase' of Europe (see US in 2008) ...after Oliver 'Greece' Twist asked for "more, more, more" the flood of empty tummied little scoundrels has started any one of them knowing they could set-off a system wide Euro-apocalypse
..if Ireland goes wave 'Goodbye' to at leaat 2 British Banks (that should have gone in 2008)
...always a good bartering tool that as politicos simply hate egg on their face on their watch... the price we pay for upholding their empty 'reputations' ...politics: a tragedy wrapped in a clown show
Tyler, you had me at (s)quid pro quo