This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Farage On The Spanish Bailout: "A Reinforcement Of Failure"
While the short-term benefits can be weighed against any long-term solution a number of ways, Nigel Farage provides not just the most colorful summation of situation but also the most succinct when he refers to the 'madness' of 'intervention to keep the Euro alive' as "reinforcement of failure". The better, and braver, in his opinion, thing to do, is to recognize that those Mediterranean countries should never have joined the Euro in the first place. As we have stated again and again, by kicking-the-can once again to prop up the euro-zone with bailout-after-bailout, all we are doing is prolonging the misery. The discussion on Sky News digs into the collateral-damage 'strawman' - which will happen anyway - and then 'Red' Ken Livingstone (an infamously socialist-leaning British politician who advocated for Britain's joining the Euro when it was formed) now somewhat notably agrees with Nigel that "locking Europe into a decade of permanent economic malaise" adding that once the smaller countries were added to the core, "it was doomed to fail". The two 'odd fellows' continue on to discuss the analogy of the USA to a United States of Europe noting that it took a civil war and a century before a common monetary and fiscal policy was accepted, adding simply that Europe's "nations will not give up their sovereignty".
»
- 26316 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
How many good jobs will be created by the bailout of Spain? Any? This bailout is a reinforcement of failure, and another bailout will be required soon enough.
100% FUBAR.
Nigel is the most honest and sane politician in Europe right meow.
I think Mike Tyson's famous quote sums things up pretty good (EU to Spain); "I'll fuck you til you love me, faggot."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx66LWV-CCk
Yep, looks like Spain will be doing the down low for the Euro banksters. Better , perhaps than getting it Greek style.
This is the funniest thing I have ever seen. I like how that old white-ass "faggot" honk tries to calm him down at the end.
Yes it is very refreshing to see Farage after those nasty and slimey bastards Brown, Blair and Cameron.
But sadly the "Farages" of Europe are a minority, as everywhere else in the world our politicians (on an EU level) are in it ONLY for themselves. They learn 8-10 soundbite phrases that they repeat troughout their careers and never do any real work.
In Sweden about a third of all highly paid politicians bother to show up to vote for different proposals, and in Germany they all come from the same insane narcissistic-satanic-zionist sect.
The problem is that WE the people allow this fucking farce to continue, ALL EU politicians should be sent to the fucking nuremberg trials and be hung.
I almost fell off my chair hearing Red Ken agreeing with Nigel! Geert Wilders and the First Finn party in Finland are also very good. Pim Fortyun in Holland was pretty good until they left killed him.
Pim Fortyun was killed by the secret service. He split the country in two and would have caused a civil war in Europe, eventually. I knew him personally. He was one sick motherfucker.
Never a happy end for the People's tribune. Either JFKed or a Cola di Rienzi exit.
Don't lie and abuse his death for your own arguments.
Lie? About what? Do you really believe he was killed by an animal rights activist? Seriously?
IF he would have been killed by a Muslim it would have set Europe on fire.
And yes, I knew him personally.
I agree. When Nige and Ken are on the same page, coming as they do from about as far apart on the political spectrum as it's possible to be and not be locked up for their own protection, it's a sign that the bunch of public (private!) schoolboys currently in charge across most of the Western world need to fuck off back to their mansions and leave the running of the various countries to those who might actually have a clue what they're doing. Run by the elite for the benefit of the elite (at the expense of everybody else!) has had it's day. If they don't start to realise that in the very near future, there is going to be blood on the streets before long.
I mean, for fuck's sake, these assholes are already stupidly rich, so it's not like they're gonna have to lower their standards of living. Time to take the profits of plunder and let the rest of us fix all the things that are broken. But they won't willingly do that because there's also that whole 'power' thing. Not something your average rent-seeking sociopath ever gives up lightly!
Just in Europe? I'd be happy if he were here in the US.
Yes he is great. I saw him at Max Keiser explaining that UK Banker deserve their huge payouts. And I agree with Nigel Bankers deserve huge reward for their great work. Like Nigel I love UK bankers.
For the UK do not tell anybody, it is a matter of time before the financial marked realize that the UK is in a terrible economic shape. And in such a situation there is one rule, who sell first his gilts and pound get the best price.
Hmm, Spain isn't "bailed out" yet. They have declared an intention to accept an undisclosed amount of bailout, some time after the Greek election. It's still a head-fake, as far as I can tell.
Extend and pretend. Most of socialist Spain supports this. The refusal to take your lumps is a human denial trait, so, spend other people's money.
When it does happen it will be even bigger.
I'm counting on it. So shut up and make it happen.
The market will be taken advantage of in whatever state it is in. Quote me on it.
Europe's "nations will not give up their sovereignty".
Oh yes they will.
Exactly.
Considering that they have put their economic prosperity in the hands of Draghi, a Goldman Sachs alum as well as Monti who hails from the same shithole I'd say that they have been compromised already. You know, the same Goldman Sachs who told Europe that Greece was fit to join you guys... The same guys who lie to their clients so they can short them...
Goldman Sachs will go down as one of the single most sociopathic entities in history, provided good prevails.
yes, they probably will if they get scared enough by a carefully emulated crysis
still, there is always a danger things can get out of control ... but with that brainwashed tv i-shit citizens they probably won't
..until the money runs out. And they they woun't.
The thing that stood out in this is where the former mayor is saying that Germany kept it's manufacturing industry and upgraded it, retooled it, etc, i.e. as though the Govt did this, and not private industrial planning and investment.
Wrong Mr centralist financialist mayor.
The PRIVATE SECTOR built-up and renovated, and also paid for Germany's industrial strength and economic resilience. The German Govt didn't make the BMW S1000RRs, it just taxed the crap out of those who did make them.
As well as taxed the crap out of the buyer and probably the seller. Then it claims payroll tax just to make sure that the salesman gets mugged too.
In most countries where someone can afford a Beemer, there's usually road tax (disguised under a variety of names to distract the motorist from the simple fact that he's being charged an additional annual fee for the privilege of driving a car he just paid a shitload of tax on when he bought it). Then you have tax on the fuel you put in it. VAT (again, often disguised under another name) on replacement tyres and most other parts. Even (and this one is my pet hate!) quite often VAT on the mandatory insurance you must have if you want to drive the bloody thing - a fucking TAX on a financial product that has no value whatsoever if you're a good driver and never have a fucking accident! Where's the value being added, there???
The EU nations already did when they signed into the EuroZone.
The "northern core" amounts to Germany, Austria, The Netherlands and maybe a few of the baltics.
Last time someone tried to expand their influence in Europe beyond that small group, 25 million men shot each other in a war.
Just saying.
Really ? Italy was I take it NEUTRAL like the USA then ? Did Italy even try to invade Greece, Abysinnia, or North Africa ? Do some history. It wasn;t "Expanding influence" but fear of Russian attack - go look at Russian economic growth pre-1914 and at Stalin's military build up throughout the 1930s - it was after all Hitler who STOPPED military cooperation with the USSR and Stalin who invaded Poland and took 52% Polish territory (keeping most of it with FDR and Churchill blessing him) and Stalin seized Romanian oilfields
I wasn't trying to assign blame, it was more of a general statement that when people (on whatever side) fail to show a respect for either national borders or for the will of the people within those borders, instability follows. So the germans/netherlands/austria might form a stable group, so let them do that, the other countries politicians should not have manipulated their people into a union which they are not naturally amenable to.
I think we're broadly arguing on the same side here, although as I understood it, the molotov ribbentrop pact was a cooperation between both sides to trample the borders which are being trampled all over again.
Fear of attack is the same reason we went to war in Iraq, it's really not a good reason to go to war. When an actual attack happens, fair enough, but to allow "fear of attack" to be a reason to attack is to invite paranoia and false allegations eg. 45 minutes to an Iraqi nuclear weapon.
Rubbish.
Indeed. Even ignoring the oft-reported facts that there was a long term plan to invade Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Iran, Syria, et al... the only fears motivating that decision were fear of not getting re-elected and fear of having to tell J6P that he could not, in fact, continue to drive his 15mpg V8 SUV, as fuel prices would have to rise to levels more similar to the rest of the world if more cheap (paid for with increasingly worthless paper currency that was being grudgingly accepted with ever more reluctance) oil couldn't be procured. Even the reserve-currency petrodollar setup, with it's strategically well-hidden effect of covertly imposing a tax on every drop of oil everyone NOT in the USA pumps into their tank, was struggling to keep American access to oil affordable. That's why we invaded Iraq!
What it did was avert a meltdown. Same as TARP here. US was heading toward a nightmare world blow up and TARP, whether right or wrong, saved it. Same thing here. Banks, as they did here, will get stronger with the ever looming "we'll save you no matter what" as a security blanket.
The question is and an easy one, "how to profit"? Easy answer: buy any US equities with high beta and make a ton of money before the next "crisis" rears its ugly head.
No, what it did was kick the can. This will not solve any of Spain's problems. They will still run a deficit. Youth unemployment will not go down. This will only bail out the banks who are facing leverage issues because of the housing crisis.
Banks got stronger here? Lol, banks continue to go out of business only to be bought up by TBTF banks. That's not fixing a problem, that's simply consolidating it. US banks are still far from healthy. MS will be the next Lehman. BoA had to be bailed out by Buffetts crony capitalist self. Foreclosures have been halted in the US because banks feel its cheaper to let the non paying tenant to live there instead of kicking them out.
The "we'll save you no matter what' meme will only last so long. Fiat money is built on confidence between the issuer and the holder. When the holder of said currency no longer has faith in the issuer it collapses.
I won't pretend to know how to make money off this. I don't gamble unless it's an underground blackjack game where I can count cards. The markets are rigged.
Fuck off.
wow - a reaction like that makes one think someone got caught really short in a doomsday trade.
sorry about that but i doubted tarp at the time but it saved the world from meltdown. same thing here on a much smaller scale. take the easy money pal. cover your short and follow the computer .
Fuck off?
Why would you tell someone to fuck off for voicing their honest opinion?
Banks got stronger here? Lol, banks continue to go out of business only to be bought up by TBTF banks....
If you're going to be a know-it-all asshole, you might want to make sure you've got your facts straight. Otherwise you look like a pompous idiot. The TBTF banks haven't taken the deposits of a single failed bank in several years. ALL of the failed local banks listed by the FDIC have been merged with other local or regional banks. Here's proof:
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/bank/index.html
The rest of your post is garbage except for the part about confidence and fiat money. It's hard to get that wrong, considering its been mentioned at ZH ten thousand times. All you've done is get a bunch of shit wrong, tell everyone the sky is blue and act like a pompous jerk in the process.
It's always the libertarians who have such an issue with free speech and the right to express an opinion. Weird.
MF
Where does he have an issue with free speech, are you truly that retarded? (Rhetorical question in this case)
"Fuck off" doesnt prevent anyones right to express anything.
You are aware of the two year ish trolling history behind the Harry Wanger/Harry Wanqer/now Harold tags, yes? That poster is deliberately fishing for flames.
I won't feed you.
Been reading Sun Tzu?
If your enemy is superior, evade him.
For you, a good choice.
MF
Maxine Fischer asked:
Because in some cases it's the proper thing to do.
Now please kindly fuck off. Thank you.
Fuck off?
Why would you tell someone to fuck off for voicing their honest opinion?
___________________________________
Because of US citizenism?
You know, in the past, as established by Socrates, the correct way to deal with the situation was to walk away, to leave.
Now thanks to US citizenism and its humanity advancement program, you simply tell people to fuck off.
US citizenism at work. So much better.
.
Such a startling and surprising response from you is here made.
You know, it is hard to surprise anyone when US citizenism's consequences have grown so common. For all these, the same cause: US citizenism, US citizenism, US citizenism.
Recalling the prevailing western philosophical tradition before the rise of US citizenism has to be done as well, US citizens gleefully introduce themselves as guardian of the western civilization (sic)
Not often I agree with you (and I still sometimes wonder if you aren't simply a fairly good 'shill-bot' program running on some Chinese HFT computer's unused capacity), but in this case...
it is somewhat true that a small number of Americans do occasionally play on their 'world police' status to big themselves up. Not all of them, by any stretch of the imagination; and very few who post here. But it does happen.
+1 Mitzibitzi
I already feel enbiggened by your sharing.
WINNING
Anonymousizm vs Maxipadizenm.
You go, girl
Nope they can learn from the USSA. Just throw some numbers out there. They need to adopt the Propagande from the USSA.
YAWN!!!!!!
I agree, this is just another boring episode of bankers printing more currency, loaning it out, and making more interest income.
The whole euro idea was so bankers could make more money from more debt, the very same idea behind the Fed and FRNs.
To bankers it's all about loaning more money and making more interest income.
Fortunately ZIRP is bringing that gravy train to a stop.
Bankers hate ZIRP with a passion, but they know it's the lesser of two evils, allowing them to keep their ponzi scheme going a while longer.
They know what will happen eventually, currency collapse. It's default now or currency collapse later, and they've opted for currency collapse later.
EUR fading a bit after that pop. I was not expecting it to fade as much as it has tonight. Were a lot of those long stocks short EUR? If so, they are going to have to sell stocks to mainting their EUR short. This could get interesting tomorrow.
'Those meditranean countries' as opposed to the center for financial fraud.
The other guest, Livingston I presume, says Britain stayed out becuase they could continue in the financial (fraud) sector instead of high tech like Germany.
Livingston also said, "US works." Say what? Where's that fk'er coming from. How much longer do you think you'll be able to say that Mr. Livingston?
Not exactly a news flash; just more people are waking up to it is all.
FUCK EURO! FUCK POUND!FUCK DOLLAR! FUCK RENIMBI! FUCK YEN! FUCK ALL FIAT! LOVE GOLD! LOVE SILVER! LOVE FOOD! LOVE COMMODITES! FUCK YOU BEN BERNANKE! DIE YOU MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!
I take it that your basement got flooded again? :)
MORE FARAGE HES GREAT!!!
Just curious. Where is Italy's bailout?
Don't worry it's coming. Then we go back to Ireland then back to Greece.
The planned itinerary has been changed ...
Greece will be revisited first ... since the land of a million daily ass rapings has been incentivized to vote for the politicians who will "reset" the conversations with the Troika by saying, "FUCK YOU"
The planned return flight over Spain may be forced to land due to turbulence caused by social unrest.
The next planned stop is Italy ... but the French banks may pressure Hollande to go get whatever he can a la Spain before the Italians suck the mother tit of Rescue dry.
Please standby and have your wallet ready for confiscation.
barliman
Interesting look at Greece. Wondering if this happens in Spain, Italy, etc. and even here, ie. 'empty-nesters' getting 're-nested' with a return to family and basics.
http://news.yahoo.com/insight-greece-painful-return-country-roots-050300127--business.html;_ylt=A2KLOzKXwNNPPUYAoRPQtDMD
And a revival of local currency?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On3Asjr-WZc&list=UUpwvZwUam-URkxB7g4USKpg&index=2&feature=plcp
Ok thanks for letting me know. After All their Stock Market only tanked like 40 percent this year, and they are manufacturing 1 million cars less a year than in 2000. And their gas prices are like 10 dollars a gallon. LOL
Fat ladies ass.
Could we in the US borrow Nigel for about four years? It would be a sweet relief to have someone with the testicularity to tell the truth and let the chips, buffalo or otherwise, fall where they may.
Just around the corner.You will not wait long to hear for Italy bailout.
A question to all those from Europe. Do the powers that be try to hide Nigel and his message over there like they try to conseal Ron Paul over here? He get's his guest appearence on an obscure station every now and then, but to them it's more entertainment than looking for substance.
Any moments of clarity that he has are subsumed by his shrilling for the city of london, deregulation of the sq mile, plus his colleagues in the UKIP party have.....questionable ideas, (round up all gays with hiv and put them in camps till they die), thats why i dont take him seriously.
Nationalist Capitalist Vs National Socialist on tv for your amusement.
+1 Farage is 100% tied to the sq mile and Colonial Intent's words about the UKIP are somewhat on the kind side - dear Nigel is enjoying his moment of "told you" because the Pound is nimbler in the devaluing game. I don't see him bragging about the inflation that the UK has, if he were really honest he would say: the UK partly defaulted by printing more. Could you imagine Ron Paul defending the policies of a weakened currency?
100% agreed. Tired of Britons lecturing the rest of Europe. Go get a life somewhere else. And don't even think about coming back to Costa del Sol.
100% agreed. Tired of Britons lecturing the rest of Europe. Go get a life somewhere else. And don't even think about coming back to Costa del Sol.
I still find it a bit disturbing that he is so popular among the US ZH-readers, particularly among Ron Paul supporters.
You already have politicians advocating his policy mix of printing, default by devaluation, deregulation of all financial services and globalistic trade.
In short, you already have politicians in the pockets of the MegaBanks.
Ghordius I made this mistake last summer before I knew much about UKIP and let's just say the rest.
At this stage, Americans are having a hard time distinguishing between independent voices of dissent and salespeople in their own country let alone the EU and its madhouse. You cannot really blame them when you realize they are hoping to find a refreshing voice or someone who is an actual leader as oppose to a shill spewing the party line of some mob or interest group. It's a savage desert out there, politically speaking since that is all that's left at least from what I can tell. Take the Tea Party people as an example, seemingly it was a spontaneous outburst of 'grass-roots' 'Merica, right? Well, either it wasn't at all what it seemed or it was hijacked along the way. All that is left is salespeople, and as all good salesman they'll take on the shape/color of any side just to get you do buy something.
Ignoring foreign policy entirely, I find it more disturbing that so few are able to work out which group is mostly responsible for filtering out politicians that advocate positions contrary to the fiscal and monetary death spiral we are in. In fact, many people on this site will do the ad hominem name calling thing whenever one even mentions the group. Anyway, don’t be confused, and especially don’t act confused by the crop of politicians that have been scrupulously filtered by our media and financial overlords. Finally, don’t act like others are fools for supporting Ron Paul when you know damn well he is the best of a crappy filtered bunch of clowns.
"I still find it a bit disturbing that he is so popular among the US ZH-readers, particularly among Ron Paul supporters." Let's face it, he is entertaining.
I've only posted once or twice my opinions of UKIP and Farage, which were not at all complimentary and deeply unpopular with the yanks on ZH. He has actually mellowed over the years (!), but early in his career, the man's views would make Anders Breivik blush, and his unyielding support of the worst excesses of the City of London makes him one dangerous bastard.
Just because he says he dislikes the "EU" (He deliberately lumps the political economic union and the monetary economic union which are two separate things together) and states the obvious that precious metals are better than government bonds, does not mean he is one of the good guys. Actually, he is a paper bug - I've never heard him advice anyone to hold physicals. A minion of the financial services thieves - his family is part of the LME, which makes the CME look like a boyscouts convention. He has repeated again and again that his main agenda is to "Protect the City of London". Not Britain, her people, her economy, or her freedom, but the City of London. If he had his way, the parasites in the City would have no regulations whatsoever to stop them from cleaning the carcass of their hosts.
oh, I agree, he is hilarious. see here http://youtu.be/F3e6IWsJA9U
Oh dear. Poor old Belgians.
well, we buggered them by letting them host the fabled "capital of the EU" - poor Belgians, they always get the dirty end of the deal...
Nigel Farage is very critic of Brussels and the "eurocrats", which is good, though he never points out that the "squandered" budget of the EU is microscopic, compared to the national budgets of the partecipant nations. In fact, he hopes he can switch from the irrelevant EU parliament to the more important and powerful UK parliament.
Which is, IMHO, a perfect case about the differences between multi-party arrangements like the EU parliament, giving a voice to even very small parties like the UKIP, and first-around-the-post arrangements like the UK and the US ones, where small parties can't even think to grow and dislocate the major, established ones, regardless how corrupt they can become.
In short, Nigel Farage is a product of the EU. No chance he would have had any relevancy without it...
What I like about Farage is that he points out how the EU has circumvented the member nations sovereignty and dictated what they can and can't do.
which is pure propaganda, specifically crafted for the UK.
though luck, they own the English Language (and important chunks of it's media - thanks, Murdoch!)
The EU is powerless if a member's government does not want specific items of legislation. to put it in a language dear to ZH readers, the EU can't fuck you alone, it needs the collaboration/pimping of your own government. (think of it as a gang-bang-only clause)
Take the European Fiscal Compact as an example, did you notice that the Irish People just had a referendum on it? I'd bet not. 60% in favour. See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Fiscal_Compact and notice the very important Ratification table at the bottom. Look how many elected bodies and referendums are necessary for an important EU legislation package.
Note that it's up to the Member Nations if the people have a referendum or not or how many elected bodies have to agree.
The Brits are simply unused to complain against their government, and the UK government is very good at misdirecting it's people towards the "evil technocrats of Brussels". Hence the UKIP, with it's main goal of exiting the EU (I hope they'll achieve it).
Here is an example that contradicts what you are saying.
11. Under the European Communities Act 1972 (ECA) Parliament voluntarily gave effect to the UK's obligations and duties under the former Community and now EU Treaties in national law. The ECA defines the legal relationship between the two otherwise separate spheres of law, and without it EU law could not become part of national law.
12. Section 2(1) provides:
All such rights, powers, liabilities, obligations and restrictions from time to time created or arising by or under the Treaties, and all such remedies and procedures from time to time provided for by or under the Treaties, as in accordance with the Treaties are without further enactment to be given legal effect or used in the United Kingdom shall be recognised and available in law, and be enforced, allowed and followed accordingly; and the expression "enforceable EU right" and similar expressions shall be read as referring to one to which this sub-section applies.
More simply stated, section 2(1) means that provisions of EU law that are directly applicable or have direct effect, such as EU Regulations or certain articles of the EU Treaties, are automatically "without further enactment" incorporated and binding in national law without the need for a further Act of Parliament. Section 2(1) applies to EU law now and as it develops in the future "from time to time" either by Treaty revision "created by" or interpretation by the Court of Justice of the EU "arising under". So, when an EU Regulation enters into force, it automatically becomes part of national law, as it does in the other 26 Member States on the same day. The uniqueness of section 2(1) is that it gives effect to directly applicable or effective EU law without the need each time for implementing legislation, as would usually be required for the incorporation of other obligations assumed under international law by a dualist State. The domestic courts are obliged to give full effect to section 2(1), in the light of the case law of the Court of Justice (section 3(1)).
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmeuleg/633/63304.htm
I disagree. An EU regulation has to go through the EU Parliament, it has to be something for which the EU has exclusive competence and has to be approved by the Councils, i.e. by the Governments.
A determined Government can still wreck any piece of legislation or decree, if it wants, as just shortly the UK's gov did when it came to allow the eurozone members to use some EU facilities.
I could cite several pieces where one government singlehandedly just veteod a new shebang. It's still a club of governments.
But please don't tell this to the British Electorate, they could get ideas...
By the way, EU legislation is one thing, here you aren't you mentioning treaties? This is a completely different matter, including ratification.
And note that you are citing an Act, i.e. a British piece of legislation that can be changed by the British Parliament.
I will look deeper into this subject as you may be right, and yes this ACT is pertaining to treaties. It does say that the courts and governments will accept it as law, but it would still have to be passed by the EC or one of their branches. I appreciate your input and wished I had the time to debate it with you not to prove that I am right but to find the truth. I do believe that any member could go against the EU, but not without economic repercussions.
very kind of you, thanks
I hear they want to eat babies too !
You're thinking of the lizard people and david icke.
:-)
Yes.
You won't ever see any discussion in EUR parliament. It is completly hidden, the only tapes I've seen come from youtube. Nigel & R Paul are proofs the whole media complex is owned and sold out by governments and the TPTB. Only internet is free, and they are trying to censore it.
My governement under Sarkozy even met the Chinese to have insights on how to control internet. Discusting.
I thought this was an interesting thing to say:
Europe's "nations will not give up their sovereignty" - are you certain that they haven't already done so, Mr Farage? Isn't that what all this bailout nonsense is all about anyway? A Country, say Greece for instance, would simply declare bankruptcy and walk away instead of suffering Troika demands if they still had the power to do so. Don't you think?
~ Revolutions have started over far less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgO_sqkPFQ
Unlistenable with that egoist of a host continually talking over his guests.
set up for failure
the hammer of the youth entitlement generation on the anvil of the retiring baby boomer entitlement generation.
The euro was set up to provide this financial catastrophe.
Not even all germans are in favour of breaking up the euro and they want to keep the entitlements.
The call of the freeloader will be help us help us and the bank/government will say \' we have a solution just vote for world government
700 Club.... $INDU futures now up 700 points since this most recent "Operation Euro Bail" started, just a few trading daze ago. Central Banking is the gift that keeps on giving, until it does'nt.
Does not look like the Spanish people even want the bail out! "We don't owe! We won't pay!"
Come on people of Spain grow some balls......withdraw your money NOW!
Can't wait until Spain receives all the money and it goes right out the ATM.
This is a bailout for the banks. Think of a boat that is listing to one side. The bailout corrects the balance sheet list but does nothing for the leak that caused it.
There will be nothing for the people of Spain.
Fix the ever present leak first and that ship of state may remain afloat. But No, got to save the balance sheet. meanwhile we who are smart will ignore the leak.
This will mean soon another bailout and another until all buckets are broken.
The people never see a penny of any bailout. They should cash out their savings and buy pm's.
But if the Euro breaks up what happens to the central planners goal of one world government run by a handful of chosen technocrats????
good question. though who says that the euro was set up for the "central planners goal of one world government run by a handful of chosen technocrats"?
for all purposes, the euro is still a thorn on the side of the central planner's functional and dominating global reserve currency, that is run by a handful of chosen technocrats with careful management of the interests of the MegaBanks.
the very fact that nations can join or leave it is disturbing for the banking cabal, hence the hatred.
and the fact that the ECB values it's gold at market prices is even worse for the "chosen technocrats". barbaric
We've trashed our Libertarian inspired Constitution, we arrogantly rejected Capitalism and we embraced Socialism like a hundred other slutty countries....and we sit here like idiots analyzing ever bit of data and wondering what's wrong ! All the Micro-Management corrections and remedies will not correct the Macro-Fuck Ups ! And the ever so clever, chic, avant garde French have an epiphany....MORE SOCIALISM ! Monedas 1929 Comedy Jihad Erudite Comtemplation Of Our Own Stupidity
More so, we’ve trashed the original concept of a voluntary Union of separate, sovereign States for central planning in the hands of a banking cartel that now controls Americans' economic and political lives.
This was not the intent of the Founders. The preamble of the first full draft of a tentative Constitution submitted to the Philadelphia convention of 1787 read:
We the people of the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, and Georgia, do ordain, declare, and establish the following Constitution for the Government of Ourselves and Our Posterity.
However, because it was not known how many States were likely to ratify the Constitution, on September 12, Connecticut’s Samuel Johnson brought in a substantially final draft of a Constitution. This time the preamble read:
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense...
Although “there was no thought of any ‘nationwide’ referendum among the people as a whole,” writes James J. Kilpatrick in the Introduction to We the States, “the change did not escape the angry eye of Patrick Henry...
”I have the highest veneration for those gentlemen,” he cried, “but, sir, give me leave to demand, what right had they to say We, the People? My political curiosity, exclusive of my anxious solicitude for the public welfare, leads me to ask, who authorized them to speak the language of, We the People, instead of We the States? States are the characteristics and the soul of a confederation. If the States be not the agents of this compact, it must be one great consolidated government, of the people of all the States.”
“One by one, proponents of the Constitution arose to assure the suspicious Henry that no such thing as a consolidated national government was being proposed…”
And, now, presiding over what has come to be a great "consolidated national government” that rides rough shod over the once-sovereign States, Barack Obama, laments that he cannot “force” Congress to do his total bidding, executive orders or no.
“I have not been able to force Congress to implement every aspect of” [what I promised to do]… “Because of the Founders…”
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2012/02/obama-blames-founders-he-cant-force-congress-founders-make-it-difficult/
The concept of a voluntary union of separate states got flushed down the toilet 150 years ago, what we have now is just the inevitable progression of that.
Voluntary Union was washed away with the blood of 500,000 souls. The victors get to write history as evidenced by the worship of Lincoln, the fucking leader of this massacre.
'Just A Goddamned
Piece Of Paper'
12-9-5
If Livingston was "socialist leaning" wounldn't that make him pink? Just sayin......
PS Denial is not a good thing.
PPS Red Ken is mellowing with age.
Washington DC should change it's name to Harvard Valley, in the spirit of Silicon Valley.
The problem with internet quotes is that you don't know if they are fake or gay. - Julius Cesar.
I don't know why Europe wants to model themselves after the U.S. If they can't see the inevitable balkanization of the U.S. they are complete fools. Wait...I'm talking about the Euro designers.....never mind.
Yep. The division within the US is the highest since the civil war. And the whole economic system is on the brink... the whole thing is corrupt... if it weren't or becomes LESS corrupt, we would see states secede as soon as the dollar collapses.
Dr. Engali, you are talking about europeans, i.e. the buggers that are notorious for their eurocentrism. The EU modeled to the US? LOL, this is pure propaganda and misunderstanding. If there is a model, then it's the Holy Roman Empire that gave birth to the "Nation State" through the Peace of Westphalia.
Though the "eurofanatic's" true fetish & model is the Swiss Confederation.
1. The EU is not a Federation or Union of States, it's a Confederation of Sovereign Nations (not states) that agree on peaceful (while retaining their own budgets and militaries) trade. It's a TRADE BLOC first, so the equivalent in the US would be NAFTA, not the US of A. Our Lefties would love to have more integration, our Conservatives grudgingly agree that the world has become too small for our relatively small Nations to fulfill some of the expectations & requirements that people set in them alone.
2. The comparison between EU and US is quite difficult, so instead of crowing on europe, I'll make an example how the US could become similar to the EU (fantasy, yes):
a) budgets and tax income of States vs Washington: 98% vs 2%
b) military only at State level, States not bound by wars of other States (i.e. if NY wants to send the Marines to Tripoli, Colorado does not have to join). Meanwhile the US citizens would still be free to move as they want inside the US.
c) scrap Senate, elect Governors by State Legislatures on a majority basis (i.e. recallable by the Legislature), Governor's Council the governing body of the US, flanked by a Commissary appointed by the Council of Governors and an elected Congress that is subordinate to the State legislatures and is only responsible for framing interstate laws that have to be approved by the State Legislatures
d) No federal police, no federal intelligence, no federal tax, no federal Treasury, no US Bonds.
e) If some states want to have a monetary union, they may, if not, nobody to force them. (Probably NY would have a separate NY Pound).
f) freedom of leaving the US and/or a monetary union inside the US
Now, if I were an US Citizen and I would be asking this package, what would you call me? A statist? A rebel? A damn nuisance?
US citizens can not stand other US citizens behaving the US citizen way.
US citizenism is about monopolizing humanity to push forward your selfish best interests.
The story to be unfolding in the next few decades.
Semantics. And the 'sovereign nations' referred to are certainly states.
no, it's not semantics. A Nation (or Country) has a very clear definition. It's Sovereignty that makes the difference. are you trying to obfuscate? just asking
Nation does indeed have a clear historical meaning, which is in no wise synonymous with country, but that aside, definitions are dime-a-dozen and the concept you are employing here in your talk of 'sovereign nations' is that of the state, however you have decided to call it. The United Kingdom, France, Germany and so forth are all of them states, as you have so avidly denied. So, to repeat, it is a matter of semantics. Whether one has a "federation of states" or a "confederation of sovereign nations" or however else you troubadors of 'Europe' wish to title your little ditty, de facto it amounts to a centralised power - increasingly centralised and increasingly powerful - seated in Brussels or Washington or Peking or Rome or Babylon or wherever, regulating as its self-appointed representatives see fit every last jot and tittle of people's lives. A trade bloc you say? Explain to me why a trade bloc finds it necessary to pass legislation obliging an adult to accomany any small child into the water of a baby pool that rises no higher than the chid's waist. Go on. I dare you.
But then look at you. You erroneously capitalise nation, country and sovereignty as if they were God.
lol - my Argument is about Evident Vetoing Power as by The Sovereigns, not Quality of Regulation. we are in europe, not in heaven.
I Don't Get Why You Think i Am Avoiding The Concept of State. It's An Ambiguos Word, from the latin RES, denoting State as in Status, Realm, Condition, etc. It's The Root Of The Word REpublic, i.e. the "Public Realm" Or "Whatever Is A Public Affair", i.e. Not Private. i believe this definition should satify even the most rabid anarchist...
You And i Are Not Alone In The Blogosphere. Some Are Youngsters Who Like To Learn Something.
Germany is a Nation constituted as a Federal Union of States
Switzerland is a Confederation of States (i.e. they can leave, if they want), one Nation.
France and Italy are unitary Nations (Nation=State, or Nation-States)
The UK is a United Kingdom of semi-independent Realms/Nations, i.e. several Nations, one Country(*).
The Irish are one People, one Nation divided into two Countries(*).
The Netherlands are a United Kingdom (of dependent Provinces) and it's one Nation.
Belgium is one Kingdom (one State), but it has been argued that it's one Country and two Nations (see Belgian Communities).
Spain is one Nation/Kingdom composed of (varying) autonomous States.
The Catholic Holy See (aka Vatican State) is a Sovereign State, though it's arguably not a Country or Nation.
All Sovereigns, though also orders of chivalry can be that, for example the Knights of Malta. Not a Nation or Country.
The United States of America is One Nation, One Country, One Union of (dependent) States.
(*) means very, very debatable and possibly generating lots of silly comments
btw, "I" is written in one capital letter, too - am I divine?
If they can't see the inevitable balkanization of the U.S. they are complete fools. Wait...I'm talking about the Euro designers.....never mind.
____________________________
Yeah, yeah, they are stupid, they even go with newer concepts like representative republic.
US balkanisation when?
If all those US citizen representatives are playing a kick the can game, how a move that can buy decades or centuries is a move by complete fools?
US citizen middle class, they want to spit on the lower class because lower class is under them and they want to spit on upper class because well, upper class is under them...
AnAnonymous said:
You place way too much faith in the US political system. Your confidence in it is unjustified.
AnAnonymous wants to shit on the world because well, the world is under him...
Nah, he wants to shit on the world because his shoes keep getting soiled from the other Chinese citizens every time he tries to drop his pants along the roadside in front of his house.
You place way too much faith in the US political system. Your confidence in it is unjustified.
______________________________________
Faith in the US political system? Nope, faith in reality. A difficult thing for US citizens to comprehend as their extremely efficient state allow them to wallow in fantasy.
Balkanisation of US population is one event to come, not happened yet.
This move mimicked by US citizen europeans will buy them decades of quiet before balkanization and the rest happens.
___________________________________________________
AnAnonymous wants to shit on the world because well, the world is under him...
____________________________________
Ah, yes indeed. The ravings of a US citizen. Somebody somewhere has to do better than US citizens in order for them to rationalize their acts.
So, yes, I have to wish to shit on the world because, well, it will comfort US citizens in their behaviour and the rationalization of it.
Balkanisation of US population is one event to come, not happened yet.
Do you have unicorns in your world too??
Nope. Just observing. I dont see Unicorns in the US of A, and I dont see the US of A balkanized yet. But I see many US citizens wishing it is already balkanized.
would like to see Farage debate Obummer/Mittens Romney(sans teleprompter). i've been pining for a good hugh hendry interview lately also- if CNBC wanted better ratings they should hire Hugh to interview all of the usual tools/Fast Money mopes on that network
Stocks will go up, fuel goes down, the unemployed are forgotten and it is against the law in many places to be "homeless".
Corporations and the overpaid management wins, government lackeys including Obama get re-elected, everyone smiles until those who are so frustrated by their inabilty to achieve a halway quality lifestyle do something unthinkable, akin to what the Colonists did to Britain, the French did to Royalty and so on.
It happened before, it will again.
We are not that civilized yet.
FARAG
FINALLY
A
REVOLUTIONARIALLY
ACCURATE
GUY
have you seen the 1min04sec mark :) ... is Nigel Farage an alien worm or it is just my linux not viewing it properly :) ?
telling the truth though, so if the aliens are the only ones seeing the problem we really have got an even bigger problem
Your Linux is working perfectly. Now if you would have been using Windoze... you never would have seen the alien.
Euro crazy train. Gonna be a fcked up ride.
The US tour should be a hoot. Which State will be first?
First for a bailout? Either California or Illinois.
First to secede? I'm going to say either Texas or Alaska. People forget about Alaska, but there's where live wire types go to be forgotten. Although I can foresee the Feds applying pressure because of all the natural resources there.
Who the fuck knows man, everything is so fucked right now.
The British and the French, and earlier the Romans, were masters of this game. They recruited local quislings to carry out policies and repression that were determined in London or Paris or Rome. Popular anger was vented against these personages, and native group vied with native group in battles for scraps of influence.
And when one native ruler was overthrown or, more rarely, voted out of power, these imperial machines recruited a new face. The actual centers of power did not change. The pillage continued. Global financiers are the new colonizers. They make the rules. They pull the strings. They offer the illusion of choice in our carnivals of political theater. But corporate power remains constant and unimpeded. Barack Obama serves the same role Herod did in imperial Rome.
The only hope is for citizens of small cities to rise up against the banks and say a collective, fuck you.
If you can get 10 of you neighbors to agree, and they get 10 more to agree. All to stop paying blood money to the banks. They got their bailout to pay for the mortgages that went bad, plus every single one that hasn't yet gone bad. Your payment is no longer required, each one is but a gift to the institution of failure.
You get a town of 10,000 to say, we've had enough. To stop paying credit card bills, stop paying mortgages, stop paying all debt. The system will end. The avalanche would be unstopable. I'd love to see the banks, with the government's blessing, try to throw an entire town out of their homes.
Simply say as a collective, "You broke the contract when you sold the rights to collect my debt to a parties we were not privaledged to. Our agreement was to be lent money and we would pay it back to your institution. In the end you would collect more than double the original amount lent. That was a pretty sweet deal. We will now negotiate on our terms."
The goal is not to get away free, but to create a fair deal where money lent is paid back, but not on the extortionist terms of the bank. 10% of the total mortgage amount, added to the principal paid on a 20 year term is more than fair.
Or maybe I'm crazy.
no lending in europe??? who cares!!! lol unreal
http://tinyurl.com/6u54db9
KEN A LIER AND ANTISEMETIC BUSTER..GET LOST
Some Europress is saying that EFSF money is not senior. Only ESM, and of course, ECB positions are senior.
Tyler?
We are talking bout Spain right? Don't you mean señor?
SMP purchased bonds were also not senior, until they were:)
Good stuff.
The U.S. has completely whored itself out to Asia and the slave labor there.
I suppose we still make handguns, rifles, and bombs but I'd be surprised if we could put together a tank or plane or toaster or can opener without begging a factory in China for help.
American corporations are the most parasitic, cheap, predatory organisms on the planet besides the bankers. If you happen to work for one it's a title, some bling, and a "join the corporate cheer" with a meager salary and health insurance premiums that could be a monthly payment for a BMW 5-Series sedan.
The money-grubbers of the world, the ruthless, heartless, abjectly selfish greedy bastards of the kleptoligarchy have fed off of decent folks long enough. Tear their McMansions, Castles, and Parapets down.
Funny, Farage always so being against Europe... He should take a good look at the UK, the country with the highest debt ratio in the world, generations of unemployed on the dole and a city that caused most of the shit that we're in (together with Wall Street). Thank you Farage for completely ignoring the role of the UK in Europe's misery. It takes balls to address your own country's problems, balls that Farage doesn't have. Go home.
Sure, it was all Farage's fault anyway. And of course, if we do away with him all the financial problems of Europe will go away. Nice straw man you have there.
Really? That's the best you can come up with?
So, would any American take note of what a European politician has to say about the USA? Hell no!
This is why no-one in Europe gives a fuck about what Farage has to say, he's only there for his audience in the UK.
In that respect it would be better if Farage uses his energy to attack the sinking ship that the UK is, and the source of its problems: The City.
If YOUR country contributes to at least 25% of the worlds debt problems you should have the balls to discuss it and to do something about it.
Farage is funded by the city, good luck with getting him to attack his own base.
US citizen farage is just a US citizen politician who farms his public electorate niche.
US citizen politicians have a clear vision of the situation, they know where US citizenism has led and they are people of power, forcing them to deal with reality.
Farage is building his own future as he is obsessed with securing his position in the future.
Nothing else than US citizenism should be expected from US citizens.
AnAnonymous said:
US politicians with a clear vision of the situation? US politicians forced to deal with reality? The humourism of your statement is great comedy and laugh inducement stunningly.
Made me laugh, bigtime.
"the country with the highest debt ratio in the world"
Not sure what data you are using but UK doesn't have the highest debt ratio, not even close.
http://247wallst.com/2012/02/14/the-tencountries-deepest-in-debt/3/
But focussing on debt ratio is an ignorant way if thinking. If an economy is very strong with high savings among the population, a high debt ratio is not a very big problem. It only becomes a problem when an economy is very weak (or becomes increasingly weaker) and the population is also in debt.
This is the case for example for the US, which also has a trade deficit growing larger each year.
Regarding Farage, he is mostly active in the European parlement, that's where he wants to put most of his efforts. Probably because he sees the greatest danger there.
Europe's future is one of many new domestic terrorist groups fighting the TPTB status quo. Martial law will reign, public gathering places dangerous, and Bankster the most dangerous job in the world.
Chaos and anarchy will increase until such time as a strong unifying leader saying the right things comes along, then you see the public executions of those that corrupted the last few decades....bankster first in line, their chrony politicians and the corrupt regulators.... robespierre resurected.
Then again is could all be milk and honey, peaches and cream.
I think enough polliticians ought to learn from history to know where this is going, throw aside their bankster paymasters and come back to being representives of the people.
The future in Europe doesn't look good if they keep walking this path.
Because, as we have all been taught, Robespierre was the sword of justice in the hands of a wronged and angry populace? Get a clue, dimwit. The idea of popular revolution is a myth created by the instigators of 'popular revolution'.
Rally Warning from last week:
'Daily chart now gives bullish warning and significant
SPX rally & USDX retracement should commence in a week or so'
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-24/market-analysis
german yields exploding
http://www.cds-info.com
Dennis: At least ours was committed, it wasn't just a string of pussy jokes.
Dummies guide to what went wrong in Europe
Helga is the proprietor of a bar. She realizes that virtually all of her customers are unemployed alcoholics and, as such, can no longer afford to patronize her bar. To solve this problem she comes up with a new marketing plan that allows her customers to drink now, but pay later.
more
http://www.webcompact.net/index.php/news/33665-dummies-guide-to-what-went-wrong-in-europe
"A reinforcement of failure"
Sounds like Wall Street, Our Government, TBTF Banks and Banksters.
And we are surpirsed that the populace of the U.S. and all these other nations are not eager to go to work and produce to support these parasitic oligarchs?
It's all about Europe
http://www.cnhedge.com/thread-7758-1-1.html
'madness' of 'intervention to keep the Euro alive'
Hang on- didn't most of the US & UK ZH readers say Greece would collapse the EURO six weeks ago last Friday?
+