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Fast Forward Through Fiat's Fantastic Fabrications

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Still confused about the fiat system praised last week so highly by the Chairman, to students from a university named for a person who would do away with the Fed in a heartbeat? The following 3:30 mintue video will explain everything.

Or, if still confused, here is old GW himself:

"Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice."

 

George Washington -- in a letter to Jabez Bowen, Rhode Island, Jan. 9, 1787

 

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Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:00 | 2308163 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Thin little sheets of paper with some ink on them. Does it rub off on you when you wipe?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:02 | 2308174 maxmad
maxmad's picture

The fiat scam, makes Bernie Made-off look like a saint!

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:08 | 2308185 dannyboy
dannyboy's picture

This is a really good vid TD, where do you find these? I try my best to look, never find ones as good as u :(.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:26 | 2308206 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fiat scam, Fiat Ponzi, yada yada, it's all a joke.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:32 | 2308214 stopcpdotcom
stopcpdotcom's picture

I'm not laughing.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:10 | 2308641 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Fed filching by Inflating fiat foments fictitious funds, frazzles folks and facilitates foolish financial fantasies.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:21 | 2308648 akak
akak's picture

Following fundamentally fallacious, fervently futile, fanatically felonious fiat fetishism, finally fomenting full financial fiasco.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:28 | 2308794 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Fuckin' fuck fiat fuckin' fuckshite!

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 00:24 | 2308856 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Those at the top of the pyramid, who benefit the most from fiat money, are those who control the Central Banks.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 15:44 | 2310439 AlvarezEarnestine7
AlvarezEarnestine7's picture

my best friend's sister makes $63/hr on the computer. She has been out of work for eight months but last month her pay was $18250 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site...   http://goo.gl/2tEsp

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 16:03 | 2310533 akak
akak's picture

That's funny, MY best friend's brother makes $63/hour as an assassin of online spammers.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:27 | 2308209 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"It is all well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:54 | 2308303 flacon
flacon's picture

Is Henry Ford saying ignorance is bliss and blessed are the ignorant? Or was he profiterring from the ponzi scheme too? Was Henry Fnord gloating about the ignorance of the people?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:17 | 2308334 bonin006
bonin006's picture

I have seen other versions of this quote where Ford only states something to the effect that he is sure the common people don't understand the money system, or there would be a revolution the next morning.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:52 | 2308415 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Since Ford detested Jews, he detested banksters as well.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:50 | 2308598 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Did you hear that somewhere or did you come up with that all by yourself?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:04 | 2308247 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Hah, I knew that "decoupling" really existed.  There are two economies in America, and you are only supposed to see one of them.  Since 2008, the emperor has no clothes, but people are still ogling the emperor's ankles.  Raise your gaze, people.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRWZoCqnDhE

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:28 | 2308208 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Fuck you Bernanke!

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:35 | 2308219 evolutionx
evolutionx's picture

Yes, it is amazing the castles in the air that can be built with paper money and deceitful manipulation of all economic data.  And Madame Bernanke de Pompadour will do anything to keep King Louis XV Obama happy, including flooding markets with unlimited amounts of printed money. They both know that, in their holy alliance, they are committing a cardinal sin. But clinging to power is more important than the good of the country.  An economic and social disaster is imminent for the US and a major part of the world and Bernanke de Pompadour and Louis XV Obama are praying that it won’t happen during their reign: “Après nous le déluge”.

 

http://www.mmnews.de/index.php/english-news/7423-apres-nous-le-deluge

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:41 | 2308228 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Ima;  no,  it was always made with multiple uses in mind.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:44 | 2308293 Neo1
Neo1's picture

A Banksters worst nightmare, forced to Return to Real Money.

The real reason you pay an income tax, is for the privilege of using a private currency.

Also known As A:  Federal Reserve Note

Demand from your bank or brokerage, lawful money and the tax goes away, with a tax exemption on lawful money, all of your money is yours.

http://www.21silver.com/?show=merrill&read=federal_reserve_act_remedy

http://stormthunder.com/federal-reserve-act/

Tax Exemption: http://stormthunder.com/federal-reserve-act/#ixzz1pOYzDgEm

 Web search these three different phrases:

Redeemed in Lawful Money  or

Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411  or

deposited for credit on account or exchanged for

non-negotiable federal reserve notes of face value  

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:23 | 2308665 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

TYLER? How  can you keep doing this? and read these ignorant comments? how can you stomach living in your country?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:01 | 2308164 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

You can find insurance for your Fiat at Confused.com

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:00 | 2308165 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

How do I get more of this "fiat?" Will my Epson ink jet do the trick? Halp?!

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:25 | 2308205 r00t61
r00t61's picture

Be very careful.

When the government prints, it's called "quantitative easing" (or alternatively, debt monetization) and it's praised by Wall Street shills and government functionaries everywhere.

When an individual prints, it's called "counterfeiting," and you get a visit from the Secret Service, and then you go to prison.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:31 | 2308210 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

fiatprinting queasing (or alternatively, regret manifestation)

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:28 | 2308278 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

unless you are really good, then you get a job as master of the mint

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:30 | 2308211 Kimo
Kimo's picture

Weren't you watching?  Get more at The Bank.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:01 | 2308172 Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

Alliteration is a valid literary device ..... fiatscos are not a valid monetary device .

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:05 | 2308177 Seditious Blasphemer
Seditious Blasphemer's picture

Whats the name of the company that supplies the dollar printing presses with their ink and paper?

I is wanting to buy their stocks.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:10 | 2308331 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Crane & Co. has supplied the paper for many long time now. Still privately held.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:06 | 2308180 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

So simple even Krugman can understand.

 

...April Fool!

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:17 | 2308198 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

huh, I thought fiat was a shittly little Italian car.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:33 | 2308217 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Fiat owns Ferrari.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:59 | 2308440 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Institutions must like Fiat.  They're dumping it like the other big fiat:

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/fiaty/institutional-holdings

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:47 | 2308820 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Unbelievable ,,, market cap of only about $7B and no institutional owners at all .... I haven't read the financials ,, what's the story here... I would think a conpany with gov't connections like FIAT could get a loan for almost any amount and with the coming devaluation/inflation pay it off by selling a few spare parts... I know FIAT USA is in big trouble ,, sales SUCK and their plant has union problems..

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 02:16 | 2308972 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

They spent all their free cash on the chick in the commercials.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:07 | 2308182 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

And the masses by Silver and the game is up.

 

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:08 | 2308183 Anarchyteez
Anarchyteez's picture

Cntl / bullshit

University students are not buying it.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:55 | 2308610 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Oh yes they are.  During the credit card outage today, I had a couple college students try and use their plastic.  They didn't have a dime of cash in their pockets.  I talked to another 20 something at a gas station on the way home.  He knew of the outage, and said he only had a card because if someone stole his wallet, they wouldn't get his money.  Its all funny until you can't use your credit/debit card.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:08 | 2308184 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

I thought "Fiat" meant Abracadabra.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:23 | 2308201 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

that was pretty funny

+1

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:00 | 2308443 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I always thought it meant "Fix it again, Tony"....

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:54 | 2308606 Confused
Confused's picture

I thought "Fiat" meant Abracadabra.

 

At this rate, it will mean Abracadaver. R.I.P. republic of the US. 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:09 | 2308186 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning" - Henry Ford

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:11 | 2308190 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

 back to a gold standard ..as long as there is taxation threw goverment , we are still slaves

Ron Paul 2012 ..Vote with you hart.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:15 | 2308195 The Beam
The Beam's picture

I had a "coming to Jesus" meeting with a few of our US Congress people in my state and a few of my state legistlators. Needless to say when I presented them with the data, the liberals thought I was "conservative" and the conservatives thought I was "liberal.

Like it's a liberal idea to actually hold the banks accountable. I was looked at as a "99%-er"

And like I am conservative for showing how the method of welfare is unsustainable. It is a glorified ponzi-scheme that has the new group of workers paying for the previous workers. I constantly say, if we are going to help it has to be at the micro level where we can better disperse the money instead the macro-national level that has more of the money going into beauracracy. I was seen as a "damn Republican conservative".

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:27 | 2308207 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Thank you for civic duty above and beyond the call.  Seriously.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

-Upton Sinclair

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:43 | 2308230 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

I'm offended by your first sentence!

</sarc off>

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:59 | 2308241 Seorse Gorog fr...
Seorse Gorog from that Quantum Entanglement Fund. alright_.-'s picture

The ignorant will label you, package you and shove you into a group. Just be... you. Nothing more, nothing less. And educate the narrow minded.

 

Regards

 

SGFTQEF,A?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:21 | 2308255 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Beam,

 

If you're a congressman, im the Queen of England.

If you really are a congressman though, you probably shouldn't start sentences with "And like".  Makes people think you're a dummy, even though you are obviously not a dummy.

 

Sincerely,

 

The Queen

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:02 | 2308322 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

With that level of reading comprehension you must be a government employee.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:09 | 2308328 The Beam
The Beam's picture

I am not a Congressman. I had meetings with a large number of our state Congressional members, along with a few of our national members. I am just a kid in the financial world who had the benefit of passing through public education (the people who understand will get the "passing through" reference)

As for the "And like" was supposed to be a play on liberal speak. "And like", "as if", etc etc etc.

Typically I use *insert sarcasm* or *insert liberal mode*. I forgot to incorporate that. However, my speech in an informal setting is not perfect either. So I have had errors of a similar nature.

Does this clear up things?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:37 | 2308801 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I've run into the same thing at a micro level.  Conservatives, particularly the uber religious ones, think I'm a liberal and democrats think I'm a rush limbaugh type conservative.  I'm neither, but they rail on me with their perception.  I don't care so much about being labelled, I figure their own tunnel vision will be their Pavlov's dogs problem.  Pavlov's labs were flooded by torrential rains and the conditioning, salivating at the ring of a bell, was erased in the surviving dogs and Pavlov had to start his experiments over.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 09:09 | 2309283 The Beam
The Beam's picture

The labeling doesn't bother me so much. The blindness bothers me. The same people that I warn because I care, will be the same people who gut me when they panic.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:16 | 2308196 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Hahahahahaha! Dollar... Fiat.... April fools right?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:24 | 2308203 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

i wish it was a joke....

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:24 | 2308202 akak
akak's picture

"Because gold is honest money, it is disliked by dishonest men."

-Ron Paul, The Case for Gold

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:30 | 2308212 EHM
EHM's picture

"Too much yield and it can't be sustained...and it collapses...too little yield and it collapses...but the yield must always be greater than previously or it collapses."

Link

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:39 | 2308224 jeffgroove102
jeffgroove102's picture

Simple, straight to the point and brilliant. And yet it is no wonder the financial industry likes to hide behind crytptic language ie rehypothecation, cds, derivatives to mask a swindle. Even Henry Ford himself said it best that if people really understood how the financial system works, their would be revolution tomorrow.

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:41 | 2308225 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Gold = Real money

Fiat = Currency

Currency is created by printing into being

Real money cannot be created at will. It must be mined.

Despite gold being range bound at $1,630/oz to $1,700/oz, it's ended the first quarter of 2012 with gains in ALL major currencies. Which proves debt monetisation (printing) and currency debasement is leading to continuing currency devaluations.

This in turn is not good news for the consumer, as devalued currency induced cost push inflation sets ever higher prices at the check out counter. How's your grocery and gasoline bills doing?

2.2% average interest rate on US Treasury debt

62.8 months average length of maturity of US Treasuries

$454 billion interest expense on publicly held debt in fiscal 2011 as of September 30

$5.9 trillion of debt coming due in the next 60 months. Thats just 5 years, not counting what will be added between now and then!  

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:30 | 2308280 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Real money can be whatever the people holding it want it to be, assuming it is voluntary. A basket of currencies would be the best way to go in the long run. Sure, it would be a bit messy at first, but eventually the cream would rise to the top and the people would choose the most portable, efficient form to do business with.

 

One such idea would be a currency of cheeseburgers and blow-jobs. Everyone needs/wants at least one of those, right? Gold and silver would be another option as well. Maybe tally stick currency among others.

 

We shouldn't get caught in the trap of saying that "real money can only be __ or __". Thats when the PTB have the opportunity to manipulate it, knowing it is the only choice you have.

 

Let the people decide what form they want to transact in. Its the only shenannigans proof way to go.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:56 | 2308429 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

That is so FOFOA of you
See his Honest Money essay

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:26 | 2308520 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Implementing a 'cheeseburger and blowjob' currency would be a fitting punishment for the banksters.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:41 | 2308808 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

no, its much too kind

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 10:52 | 2312937 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

According to the Fed's MMM, banks create money.  Ergo, the banker would have to suck my dick and then give me a cheeseburger.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:45 | 2308295 Lord Blankcheck
Lord Blankcheck's picture

It sounds like the constant fiscal mismanagement by the Government is the problem.

It does not matter what is used as money.They have debase everything ever used,including gold and silver.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:41 | 2308227 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Eh. Who needs a printing press, paper, and ink, when a keyboard and a computer will suffice?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 18:45 | 2308232 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

I'd like an old 60's fiat.  They had 2 cylinders, could fit 4 skinny people if you were willing to share the seat, got 186 miles per liter of gas or algerian table wine.  They don't need a parking space because they would not be noticed on the curb.  Will trade a GMC truck, with camper.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 02:20 | 2308975 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

How many km/gal is that?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:00 | 2308240 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

There was a global issue today with Visa.  Counldn't process ANY credit cards at two of my businesses today for about 10 minutes.  You should have seen the deer in the headlight looks on some peoples faces.  So many idiots have ZERO cash in their pocket.  Good luck with your peice of plastic.  I just cannot fathom how people are willing to give up what little freedom they have by letting the PTB turn us into a cashless society.  Probably won't read about any of this on the news either.  Tyler should look into this, I sent him an email at his tips email addy.

Funny how people don't like gold/silver, and have trust in digital $$'s.  Can't trust fiat or the digital dollar.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:56 | 2308308 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

no problem, just a glitch in the matrix,

A technical problem affecting the Visa network barred people from using their credit and debit cards for about 45 minutes on Sunday @YonhapNews
Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:29 | 2308377 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

What if it lasted a week instead of 45 minutes?? How would that be for a false flag?? Iran hacked our credit card network. Think about the chaos that would cause. Plastic doesnt work......no problem, I'll get cash from the bank right?? How much money do the banks have on hand again?? Enough to give everyone their money? If credit cards failed there wouldn't be a drop in the bucket enough cash for people to withdraw.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:45 | 2308580 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

I think by 'Iran' you probably meant 'Al Q*eda' and by 'Al Q*eda' it can only mean Al Banksta

Know your terrorists....

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:57 | 2308312 akak
akak's picture

There was a global issue today with Visa.

No, there was a global problem with Visa.

An issue is NOT necessarily a problem!

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:40 | 2308384 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

Evolution, did you read the interview in the link you provided?  The guy said NOTHING!  He just said the Bilderberger group was a yearly, loose 2 1/2 day conference, with almost no agenda, just presentations and debates among the movers and shakers of Europe and America.  A big ego-stroke and schmooze fest for the attendees.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:22 | 2308268 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Well, guess what...they're going to continue to do it anyway.  Get pissed off and rant an rave.  But, these fuckers are in TOTAL control and they couldn't give a fuck about the bottom 99%.

This hasn't even begun to get out-of-control yet.  They'll do whatever they have to do to continue this fucking game.  Whatever it takes.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:24 | 2308270 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

They will print more.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:45 | 2308814 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Yep.  However, they may launch another, bigger war to provide more criminal cover for all their crimes.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:28 | 2308276 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Maybe it doesn't matter what backs the money but instead who controls its quantity? Maybe if we had sovereign, debt-free fiat spent into existence by the government w/no Federal Reserve and if we had no fractional reserve banking, we would have fewer problems?

Bill Still's award-winning video may not be as brief as the one above, but it might be better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:48 | 2308284 akak
akak's picture

Bill Still is a lying, malicious, statist bastard and monetary wolf in sheep's clothing who has repeatedly misrepresented and outright LIED about the gold standard and monetary history, and who continues to advocate for government-issued, government-controlled fiat currency.  The idea of him even calling himself a "libertarian" is laughable on the face of it --- the man inherently hates monetary freedom, and the free market itself, merely proposing tweaks to the current fiat monetary system and then claiming that this would amount to "radical reform".  Beware this shill for the statist status-quo, as well as his pro-fiat sidekick Ellen Brown the Money Clown.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:58 | 2308435 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Again FOFOA
See his discussion of Hard Money Socialist

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:24 | 2308521 akak
akak's picture

Can you elaborate on that statement?

I do not understand your reference.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:58 | 2308436 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Again FOFOA
See his discussion of Hard Money Socialist

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:40 | 2308702 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I appreciate the feedback and opposing position, Akak, as I am still learning and haven't formed a hard opinion yet regarding my stance on the money backing and the actual history that I accept (in regards to US monetary policy, depressions, wars, etc--US monetary history).

But in your response, if I may, I see little logic and much ranting, so it's difficult for me to understand exactly what your problem is with Still. I've seen Ellen Brown on Max Keiser several times and like a lot of what she says.

Personally, I think a shift to sovereign money is a good idea. In Still's video, he has several guests who speak on backing sovereign money with gold, with silver, and with a basket of commodities. So I see him inviting those viewpoints into the film, into the realm of suggestion under sovereign currency. While he supports sovereign currency, he seems to me, at least in this film, to allow others to argue for backing of that sovereign currency (even though he supports sovereign fiat backed by nothing--he seems to be tolerant of other positions as long as they support sovereign currency). By sovereign money, of course, I mean money printed by the US government, not the Federal Reserve (not FRNs).

I'm eager to hear more details about why you oppose him and eager to see the links.

I'm here to learn.

What I like about sovereign fiat is that, in a truly democratic state functioning without massive corruption, the people would ultimately have power over monetary policies. Many different sides claim that the gold standard presented problems.

And if the return to the gold standard ever happens with some kind of reset or international currency, my bet would be that it would not be allowed to actually happen unless the banksters were behind it, unless that had been their plan all along, and unless they were the ones actually holding a terrific amount of the gold.

I am more of a populist, power-to-the-people kind of guy who currently supports Still's position, then, but am ready to learn. :)

Thanks for your obvious and endless patience.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 04:32 | 2308936 akak
akak's picture

Fair enough, Clashfan.  I did not go into depth on Bill Still in my last comment simply because I did not have the time.

There are several things that I intensely dislike about the man.  First, as I alluded to earlier, he has repeatedly, and very dishonestly and disingenuously, misrepresented monetary history and wildly twisted facts in the attempt to support his pro-statist monetary position.  He has claimed that prices were no more stable under the gold standard than under the post-1930s worldwide fiat monetary regime, which anyone besides Bernanke knows is a flat-out lie. Bill Still, also like Bernanke, has frequently implied if not outright stated that the "rigid" gold standard led to the frequent booms and busts of the 19th century, which Ron Paul has conclusively (and devastatingly) demonstrated in his book The Case for Gold were the product of credit bubbles and fractional reserve banking, NOT the fault of gold in any way.  Bill also likes to state, contrary to all factual evidence, that a gold standard is inherently pro-elitist, as most of the world's gold is held by governments and central banks, when in fact less than 25% of it is thus held, and if the claims of GATA are to believed at all, in fact less than 15% of the total world gold stock is held by world central banks.

More than this, though, is the central message of Bill Still that all money MUST continue to be issued and controlled by governments --- this in and of itself makes him a raging statist, and is diametrically opposed to virtually ANYONE who calls himself a libertarian, and is fundamentally in opposition to free-market principles and philosophy.  Not only are there no good reasons for governments to be the sole money-issuing entities, there are numerous good reasons for them NOT to be involved in issuing money in any manner whatsoever, as we are witnessing today.  Yet he has even argued in favor of maintaining legal tender laws (which are nothing but monetary coercion and absolutism) in defense of his flavor of government-issued fiat currency.

Bill Still talks about "sovereign money", but that is nothing but a minor variation, at best, of the monopolistic fiat currency system we have today.  No, I do not trust an unaccountable banking elite to issue and control our money, but do you REALLY think that putting that power in the hands of Congress would be any better?  I say that such power should be left to the people in the form of the free market, by eliminating all legal tender laws and allowing competing currencies to arise, and letting the free market sort it out.  When this has been allowed, every time throughout history, the people have almost invariably chosen copper, silver and gold as their money, but that does not preclude other and more novel options as well --- unlike both Bernanke and Bill Still, I would not presume to predict which money is "best", nor dare impose my choice on others.

So, to summarize, I see Bill Still not as some kind of monetary reformer, but as an implicit proponent of the current and failing fiat monetary system, regardless of whatever minor twists he would subject it to.  When it comes to the issue of monetary freedom of choice, he is really no better than Bernanke or any other elitist central banker, and to have such a person dare call himself an advocate of liberty I find dishonest and grossly insulting.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 05:12 | 2309041 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Thanks for the response, Akak. Gives me plenty to think about, but as I say, he allows for different backing of sovereign fiat in the film.

I guess I don't see where the problem is if barter is allowed. If barter were allowed, or somehow made more regular, folks could barter with PMs. Fine. The currency issued could then compete. I can see, too, the argument why it might fail.

Congress today may be argued to be the result of FRNs in large part, so I don't think that an honestly elected government that is really accountable to the people would be worse than the Fed issuing the money, no. Especially if sovereign fiat were combined with other reforms, like the elimination of fractional reserve banking or changes in tax laws, campaign finance reform, etc.

And I see Still pointing more at fractional reserve banking than the gold standard, and he, like me and WJ Bryan, argues more in favor of silver as opposed to gold.

What problems would you see with sovereign fiat backed by silver?

And if I understand you correctly, you're arguing for a barter system without any money issued by the government? So how does that work at the grocery store exactly? Each particular grocery posts to the public what monies it accepts? Wouldn't this be extremely cumbersome? Or am I misunderstanding?

And thanks again for the time.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:48 | 2308720 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I might add, Akak, that there are plenty of us out here who appreciate much about the Libertarian stance but have a hard time accepting all of the ideological facets of it. And not all Liberatarians agree, either, as I understand it.

If anyone asked me my political beliefs, for example, I would say that I lean Libertarian. I am frankly disgusted with both parties, haven't voted in a long time, but don't support Paul quite enough to actually go out and vote for him, sorry.

For one, he won't support 911 truth. I can't get behind anyone who can't publicly do that. Some say that would be political suicide for him, but if he's really in it for the message anyway, what's wrong with truth? It doesn't seem to bother Ventura.

So I guess what I'm asking you here is just how much of the Libertarian mantra folks have to accept in order to even lean Libertarian. As an example, I have a hard time buying into the idea of no safety net whatsoever, and I even might be able to envision socialized medicine existing side-by-side with private medicine. I have a hard time thinking that those without medical care should just be left to die. Perhaps that's the Christian in me.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:31 | 2308796 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

[quote] I have a hard time thinking that those without medical care should just be left to die. [/quote]

Hmm, so you BELIEVE that millions were left in the street to die from medical problems BEFORE Medicare/Medcaid?  Check yer premises (AND the History books!)

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 05:00 | 2309038 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

This is a tricky response to what I say, Stycho. You say millions and then assert that I believe something I never say.

And yes, many did die from lack of adequate medical care. Many still do.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 01:44 | 2308941 akak
akak's picture

I have a hard time thinking that those without medical care should just be left to die.

Would you be willing to allow such people to die?

Do you not think that others would similarly not be willing to see the same?

Do you not realize that in a truly free society, such abject poverty would almost certainly be significantly rarer than it is today?

Would holding a gun to my head to force me to provide for others be "humanitarian" and constitute honest charity?  What is the moral position of those who steal from others, regardless of their intentions?

Just some things to think about.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 04:59 | 2309037 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Agreed on all points, but it does reek of idealism. I've been through this one before. I say "hard time" because I recognize the dilemma. There are options for raising funds that aren't "a gun to my head," like the lottery, for example. And a sales tax as opposed to an income tax.

At the end of the day, I believe in a safety net of some sorts that is guaranteed. Reform the current setup? Surely.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 05:22 | 2309044 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

And as for Ron Paul, I don't see how so many on this site can actually vote for someone who denies 911 truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60TWZNVgtk

I like a lot of his points and have vocally supported him above and beyond any other candidates from any other parties. But I would choose none of the above, and without that option, I'm staying at home.

And his son bothers me in many ways. Support for mountaintop removal is absurd, period.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:28 | 2308279 Griffin
Griffin's picture

Steal a little

Standing low

Quickly off to jail you go

 

Steal a lot

Standing high

Problems always pass you by

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:32 | 2308283 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Methinks its about time the UN investigators got serious and investigated the USA, China and Russia's weapons of mass destruction programs including nukes and if they have them to boycott these countries like we boycott others who are building these damn things and then you will truly see "hope" and "change" as the economic system will fall and something much better will take its place as necessity has proven to be a great motivator in times past.

However the Pres and all his buddies would not let this happen as genocide machines are necessary to insure peace they say.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:30 | 2308363 bonin006
bonin006's picture

Why Can't We All Just Get Along?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 19:45 | 2308297 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

FIAT - Fix It Again Timmay

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:07 | 2308335 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

 http://bible.cc/revelation/8-1.htm

Fiat, a Roman wilderness of pain, defining the revelation of the lukewarm hearts that stand silent, having forsaken the blood of the American Revolution. The foreign and domestic Judas has given up mercy for some ''change''. Fiat offers labor no security, and as in the garden, the brood of vipers that have hatched their golden cash cow, by feeding the Big Apple Bull of Wall Street with leveraged labor, have lied to the masses in order to rule the world. The Public Trust has been broken. Goldman's god(s) work is defined on the Treasurey Bill with the blasphemous words ''Debt Note'', declaring the Goldman ''In God We Trust'' has no mercy for Muppets. Dare they place the name of Christ upon their Fiat, having no mercy? The false Fiat claim of dominion defines the Whore of Babylon riding the evil Novus Ordo Seclorum Beast, which has marked all nations and Israel with the seal of contempt.

Woe to you who accept the mark of the beast and not the risen Spirit of Mercy in agreement with our Father in Christ. All the world is taxed through the massive trillion dollar blak hole. The bottomless derivative pit of Chairsatan and the Suicide Vamprie Squid of the Great Wal Mart of China define the blood in the BTFD Cup of Fornication, the offer of temptation in the legislative Houses of Desolation, where the thumb on the scale defines the measure and weight of life liberty freedom independence and justice. The people are wanting. Their standing does not exist, Babylon is fallen! Fiat flows down the legislative halls flooded with corruption and mockery. The men of old, men of renown, have devoured this whole generation, as in the Days of Noah, and the whole market is nothing but a captured MF Global High Frequency Trading Fiat Farse. ...and everyone watching knows it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll-TsE1hqbg

JUDGMENT! JUDGMENT! JUDGMENT MUST COME!!! ...and upon all nations. Every tongue that has rejected mercy, and wilfull person that has accepted Fiat thinking to escape the call, it is time BURN!!! BURN!!! BURN!! Who dares to buy this market? Who dared to sell it? Who dares to trade it? The cities are beginning to burn the Fiat is so fallen. The Earth has moved as a drunkard form earthquakes, the sea has cover the ships and cities, the rain has flooded the streets, the Sun has scorch the land and the locusts of war are in the field, ...and gee wiz Wally, it's 2012 too. Is it not the time when the Occult Serpent rises at the dawn of the new age? ...and the whole global market just happens to be out of order! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qiq8MfNm5s

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:27 | 2308356 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

Fiat money systems are used world wide,  filling the harbors of the Cayman Islands, Monte Carlo, St. Tropez, etc with mega yachts of the bankers and those most highly connected, the one one-hundredth of one percent.  It is patently unfair to the farmers, miners, entrepreneurs and laborers who are at the bottom of this pyramid.

But it is only wishful thinking that this would not be the case with a precious metal currency economy.  What oligarchy gets to own and control the gold mines?  Does the super rich son-of-a bitch that somehow has laid (stolen with his lawyers) claim to a remote part of the earth that contains the ores have to spend his ill-gotten metal into society at large, so the farmer finally gets his hands on some gold?  Who thinks that this new .01% would lend it freely to the bottom of the pyramid?  What, no lending or credit, all cash on the barrel head?  The 99% can't buy a house until they save up 100%? 

There would be a new set of undeserving crooks, guaranteed.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:35 | 2308555 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Carl - a gold standard doesn't mean transactions take place in gold coinage.

It means that a unit of paper currency has a backing w/ an amount of gold. Question becomes at what price of gold does the currency base it self on. 1000/oz, 5000 / oz, etc.

Just to be clear..

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:52 | 2308729 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I, too, have a hard time refuting this possibility, Carl, and see that the same, basic folks were in charge of everything under a gold standard. My position is more along the lines of sovereign money regardless of the backing, preferring perhaps silver (the poor man's gold).

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 03:55 | 2353993 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

If your only cogent argument is that the gold mines will be controlled by the rich oligarchs, you could just as well say the same for all oil, all farms, all forests for lumber... any resource. So let's just cut to the chase, put our slave collars on and a painted on smile.

OR

how about some ROSHAMBO

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:52 | 2308414 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

there ought to be a law against Federal Reserve Chairmen going into our universities & spewing propoganda & lies to impressionable young people !    if i was in that audience, i'd stand up & outright tell him that he's lying & tell the young people to wake up & smell the coffee & lies !    s.o.b. assholes running this country, they all need to BE IN JAIL , thieves, criminals & scam artists.    Don't even get me started on ROBERT RUBIN & BILL CLINTON !

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 20:57 | 2308434 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Fiat is the root debasement of currency and the essence of control and corruption for the elite.

It facilitates debasement and slavery in many forms: debt, drugs, human trafficking, political sloth and ignorance.

It is the blood that feeds the tumour known as the NWO.

 

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 21:51 | 2308597 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Of course the speech was purposely done at GWU. A stab in the heart to the founding fathers of this country.
Everything the FED and do has a purpose...and it's not to benefit the citizens

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 22:15 | 2308649 navy62802
navy62802's picture

The point of all this is that the people who have first access to the newly created money profit the most. It's not really a revolutionary concept. It has been known for many decades ... and probably longer.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:05 | 2308756 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

This guy, surprisingly, has a good explanation of the whole system:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37eqoYbj1QM

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:16 | 2308777 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

There exists another problem.

The fact that 1% control 99% of the wealth is in itself destructive to the assets being held (the assets depreciate).

 

So just because the 1% stole all the wealth, giving it all back to the people doesn't really work, because the process by which they stole it resulted in capital destruction (or destruction of assets).

 

Corporations go bust, food rots and gets thrown away, homes go into dis-repair, stuff that would be valuable to some gets trashed and destroyed.... (assets of companies like computers and equipment) much like with solindra, when it went bust and all the loan money got eaten up by the 1% the assets of the company were not sold off, they were shredded and destroyed/thrown into a land fill...

Equipment/Specialized glass other corporations could of used... raw brand new materials...

 

If you steal all the money, and then decide to give it back... theres actually a deadline by which you can do that and stave off the damage... that deadline is long past... so we are in for the reckoning.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 23:29 | 2308795 deflator
deflator's picture

Fiat is Latin for, "let it be so". Sounds like Yul Brenner in the 10 Commandments.

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 04:13 | 2309014 givehonestyashot
givehonestyashot's picture

Well we all know its a fraud here at ZH so what are we going to do about it.

telling each other here is preaching to the choir, we all agree but nothing changes.


voting will not change anything, short term.

Congress has health care for free. So does the Senate, and the President.

When's the last time a "so called leader had to worry about the cost of food, gas,how he was going to pay rent,  ate or lived like his poorest subject does?"

I guess there is something eveyone could do, I heard one guy at starbucks say STOP PAYING TAXES its the one thing most can still do.

OWS

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 06:39 | 2309075 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

The death of Fiat Money - blah,blah, blah

Be very careful what you wish for. The zombies will be eating you and your family so I hope you have that planned in.

What are countries gonna trade with? You missed that part.

Oh right, your daughters and wives will be sold into slavery in China so you can get an IPOD.

Beware of the people with nothing to lose because they've lost it all.

Tyler maybe a checkin in Greece about their living conditions is in order.

I can imagine that is the perfect fractal for all of you to understand. Just times it by 1000 in the US

 

 

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 11:02 | 2309529 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

I'm *not* a big fan of Zbigniew Brzezinski, but, what he had to say in March, 2007 was a warning shot across the bow of a dysfunctional, and polarized american political system, that's pretty much manifested itself today into a bubble-wrapped economy, just waiting to be side-stepped upon?

We're broke mentally, morally, and financially through endless warring - a destitute big-brother/ world-police state, that has garnered all but disdain and animosity from our once great admirers throughout the free world!  

"Deception" [Pakistan, the United States, and the Secret Trade in Nuclear Weapons] by Adrian Levy & Catherine Scott-Clark c.2007

Quote/ Passage:____Pakistan continues to sell nuclear weapons technology (to known and unknown) even as Musharraf denies it --- which means either the sales are being carried out with Musharraf's secret blessing, or that he did not know and is no more in control of his country's nuclear program than he is of the bands of jihadis in the tribal belt and Pakistan-administered Kasmir, which have merged with al-Qaeda and whom he has wrapped up deals.

      When politicians in London and Washington describe Musharraf as a key ally in the war on terror, what they really mean is that he is their only Islamic ally in the region. So with the White House and 10 Downing Street unable to countenance an alternative, Musharraf's Pakistan remains at the epicenter of terror, a disingenuous regime with its hands on the nuclear tiller.

      It will only be a matter of time before the rising tide of Sunni extremism and the fast-flowing current of nuclear exports find common cause and realize their apocalyptic intent. There are plenty of ideologues, thinkers and Islamic strategists who are working towards precisely that goal, and here is a regime in Islamabad that has a no hard and fast rules, no unambiguous goals or laws, and no line that cannot be bent or reshaped. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Cater's former national security adviser, who in 1979 was the first to recommend that the US look the other way when it came to Pakistan's nuclear ambitions, warned in march 2007 that if the bush administration did not back off from its current course in Iraq and Iran, the US faced the prospect of "twenty years in a war [with] ... Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and probably Pakistan,and that will be the end of american global supremacy."

      Robert Gallucci, Bush's former WMD adviser, who tracked Pakistan's nuclear progress from its inception at Multan in 1972, goes even further: "Pakistan is top of the list. It is the number one threat to the world at this moment in time. If it all goes off, a nuclear bomb in US or European city, I'm sure we will find ourselves looking in Pakistan's direction." ___ End Quote/ Passage

Ps. Reagan & the Bush's created all this, period! Why is America broke? Because,  America relies on the world to finance its wars for Big-Oil/ MIC, and the NWO Oligarchy that control the FED!

Ref: http://www.businessinsider.com/brics-bank-to-rival-world-bank-and-imf-an...    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/defusing-the-indi...

jmo 

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 14:32 | 2310232 Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

Get the truth about the JPMorgue MFGlobal FedRes Fiat Fuck here:

http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog

Get nine-eleven thruth here: ( 911 Unveiled)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=911%20unveiled%20%2B%20pdf&source...

Look here for advice on targets:http://www.jbcampbellextremismonline.com/

Peace, oh money phallus suckers.

 

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