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The Fed's Manipulation Of The Market Is Driving TrimTabs' Charles Biderman "Even More Nuts Than He Already Is"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Back in 2009 and 2010, TrimTabs Charles Biderman made waves for being the first person on prime time financial TV to tell it how it is, namely that the Fed is indirectly and directly affecting asset prices. Then he was ostracized. Now, it is not only a given that the Fed does everything in its power to hike stock prices, but is in fact welcome. Indeed, none other than Bob Pisani made point of highlighting that between central bank intervention and kicking the can down the road, the status quo has managed to restore credibility in the system. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth, as we have demonstrated with the now terminal evacuation of faith by the retail investor in the gross manipulated stock "market" which is nothing but a nominal policy vehicle for politicians and bankers. Unfortunately, the endless lies and propaganda are starting to push rational people who refuse to take the blue pill, and who are fully aware there is no wizard, over the edge. In his latest videoblog, Biderman is back, taking his Lewis Black impersonation to the next level, with the following rant: "Individuals are net sellers of US equities and have been for years, probably because they need to pay bills and stuff. So how are they able to do that and get decent prices without the stock market cracking. Well simple the Federal Reserve has been printing huge amounts of money and that ultimately has been boosting the value of US equities, and therefore the sellers can sell. All of this is driving me even more nuts than I already am."

Alas, judging by how seemingly normal people act and behave recently, those to whom every fraudulent action of the Fed is clear as daylight, Biderman's reaction is not unique, and more and more people have been brought to the edge of a full mental collapse as the lies upon lies upon propaganda merely pile up, with nothing ever being fixed (listen to the second part of Biderman's rant for more on that), and with virtually limitless risk now swept under the rug, and onboarded by the world's central banks, in a sequence that can only have one outcome: an end of the monetary system as we know it, at the point where no more risk transfer can take place.

Luckily, since we are now in the exponential phase of consolidated central bank balance sheet expansion, the wait will not be very long 

 

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Sat, 03/10/2012 - 22:43 | 2244115 slewie the pi-rat
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the sausalitoWaterCo was est. in 1963 by theGratefulDead...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:33 | 2244183 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

i'm right with this guy im going nuts

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:43 | 2244198 tickhound
tickhound's picture

lotta poor man got the Cumberland blues,

he can't win for losin'

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:51 | 2244234 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Any sane person who has even a basic understanding or economics and market forces has come to accept that there is a fundamental truth that's merely been overlooked due to to all of the machinations, schemes, obfuscations, interference, and artifices set up by central banks in pursuit of their latest can-kicking and risk-shifting plans:

Deleveraging has only really taken form in terms of write-downs and write-offs of bad debt, which large parts were paid for by taxpayers (via TARP, TALF, QE & Twist); We're already well into another massive reflation of another credit bubble (2 years now, and yes, even with housing and auto sales well below their 2006 peaks - there's just not as much demand, although the credit risk is as great as it was back in 2006), and few media sources are ackowledging this, let alone talking about it.

True market forces will reassert themselves, ultimately, and we will see this expressed in everything from treasury yields to rates of returns in broad risks of asset classes reflect levels after massive distortion has been pumped into the system by central planning meddling, but not before the central bankers literally run out of the cushion they now have to keep printing.

I read a fantastic article on the alleged deleveraging that the media is claiming is taking place. As the author states, it's really not taking place. There's been a write-down of bad debt, and minor levels of deleveraging by consumers, but only at the margins.

What's really happening is that another credit bubble is already begun to reflate, whereby Bernanke and his central banking brethren around the globe are printing and distributing fiat to recapitalize banks, so that those banks can begin dealing easy credit on autos and cars and via credit cards again, to many of the very same people who just defaulted on many of their prior debt obligations.

This is only possible through the printing of massive amounts of fiat, distributed to the banks (especially the TBTF institutions, which tender much of the mortgage, auto and credit card unsecuritized credit).

So, we'll simply have another period soon, whereby all the consumers now borrowing money to buy homes, autos and everything elese again, but whose incomes aren't sufficient to service this debt over any significant period of time, begin to default en masse, yet again, at which time...yep, the central banks will try to bail out the lenders again, which will debase the currency at even a faster pace, try to socialize the losses, and try to puts 'risk on' assets back into play for those entitled to receive near-cost free loans from central banks, or that are able to exchange low quality collateral in exchange for such loans (or sell the assets outright for well over market value to central banks).

Sustainable future demand will be robbed to pay for present reflation and EZ credit, and to lube the printing, and bankers will get their fill, gorging yet again at the expense of the organic market, taxpayers and consumers (as the inflation tax takes a bite out of their ass).

Except the consequences when the now already under way credit bubble bursts will be a watershed moment, and that's when the central bank 'put' expires worthless:

Here's the article (as posted right here on Zero Hedge):


Guest Post: Cause, Effects & The Fallacy Of A Return To Normalcy

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:03 | 2244276 tickhound
tickhound's picture

And that about covers it!  As if we could ever have any kind of "return to normalcy" with marking to market destroyed.  That's a gorilla, should it ever return.

ps good edit *socialized

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:06 | 2244292 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I should have added that Biderman is spot on in claiming that publicly traded companies have been buying back massive allotments of their own shares of stock, which has only been possible because they are able to issue record low-yield debt in the form of corporate bonds, thanks to suppression of yields of one of corporate bond's main competitor - treasuries.

So, yes, this is yet just one more factor of artificiality that has allowed a unique phenomenon whereby share prices rose all throughout a period whereby not only retail investors, but corporate insiders, were net sellers of equities by a wide margin.

As David Stockman would no doubt argue (and volume and trading action is beginning to bear this out), jumping into equity markets at this point is the act of either the clinically insane or those using OPM (sans conscience).

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:40 | 2244369 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  Excellent analysis TruthIS!

 

I would add here:

GOLD, Bitchez!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 03:48 | 2244420 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Gold is irrelevant in society.

When we face the ongoing charade and see numbers quoted and celebrated and we know full well the bad paper is still not marked to market on the balance sheets of the financials, there is a way to defend your sanity.

Just carefully look at the numbers that are unprecedented.  

The 10 year government paper is 2%, in an economy that posted 3% GDP for Q4 as well as CPI north of 2%.  You do realize this is not possible?  

Oil is $125/barrel.  Oil spiked in summer 2008 before Quantitative Easing even existed in the lexicon, let alone could get underway.  Oil has been north of $100/barrel in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2008, i.e., 4 of the last 5 years.  That has never happened before.

China is buying cars in numbers well north of 10 million every year and every one of those is oil consumption that has never existed before.

China's per capita oil consumption is 1/10th that of the US.  They have a long long way to go burning oil to come even close to US levels, which equates to lifestyle.  Make no mistake about it; they ARE going to seek that lifestyle and burn oil to get there.  This has never existed before.

$16 Trillion is coming, and the maximum spending cut we've seen after the Tea Party completely reversed an overwhelming Democrat House advantage and turned it into a GOP House . . .  is $4 Billion this fiscal year.  A veritable political earthquake, and all we've seen from it is $4 Billion.  To go with that $4 billion we decided to extend unemployment benefits and do the medicare doc fix, both items of which ate far more than the $4 Billion.   The most powerful political upheaval imaginable took place, AND THEY DID NOT CUT SPENDING.  I can't say this has never existed before.  It has always existed.  What didn't exist before is we didn't have total proof that they won't cut spending until now.  Even the GOP won't cut.

So that's how you keep your sanity.  It's not real.  Ignore equities.  Once you know you're not going to play, then you need not even see them.  Watch some other asset class.

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:27 | 2244442 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

This guy's obviously going publicly nuts.  He needs a job with ZH and just become anonymously nuts.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 05:11 | 2244472 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

At least he's an optimist.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:47 | 2244740 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

what's that?

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:49 | 2244745 The Grip
The Grip's picture

+1 as usual. Withold the oxygen.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 15:24 | 2245312 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Crashis..

"Gold is irrelevant in society."

in which society?

maybe yours but it is being purchased widely in India, China, Thailand and even Europe.

It may be nothing now but when the Weimar trillion dollar hamburger special is at every Mickey Ds I suspect it's relevance will be apparent.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:48 | 2245133 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

and now my Dad is getting REIT packages as non-traded REITs rush to go public, after many are up 400% in 4 yrs while issuing record debt to sustain dividends!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:19 | 2244316 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

Truth, good report. I am waiting to buy Treasuries until they yield in the Greek range of 800%. Then, I may add a few to my IRA. In the meantime, thier negaitve 4% yield is not too appealing (using John Williams 6%-10% Real Infaltion Rate and the 'official' GDP of only 2%).

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 03:52 | 2244424 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Buy them now.  Rates are going negative.  People will be terrified of coming upheaval and will pay to park their money.  If you're in now, there will be capital gains from that event.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 15:27 | 2245321 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

ah, it becomes more clear...

Why in the world would one park ones money in an asset that behaves bizzarely. I get your point but for how long can negative yeilds persist?

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 11:47 | 2247324 pavman
pavman's picture

*cough* japan *cough*

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:42 | 2244796 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Yeah, we'll, I'm investing my IRA in Ireland, where the capital is Dublin every day ....

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:30 | 2245084 Mark123
Mark123's picture

Great post....one of the best I have read on ZH (which can be very good).

I agree that the current strength of the consumer is probably due to a new consumer credit bubble (car loans, student loans, credit cards etc).  This is a very efficient way to goose the economy (short term) since if you expand consumer credit to people with poor credit then it is certain to get spent immediately (unlike lowering taxes which will be saved by the richer folks).

Surely there is some data to support this expansion of EZ credit?  Also, it would be great to get someone to do a candid camera video of someone applying for a car loan who is without a job, illegal immigrant etc etc - then post on the internet.  There is a lot of power in such video in a society that no longer reads!!!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:05 | 2244291 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Why? Because a ruling elite created and manage a system for their sole benefit? Been happening for centuries, and will continue in one form or another. The Fed, the wars, 9/11, and on and on. Evil and selfishness knows no bounds with the TPTB.

Leave the system as much as you want, orient your life as you choose, and free your mind from the indoctrination. Not to sound too Zen, but inner peace lies within.

Oh, and the TPTB have given us a 'gift' - of time to prepare for the inevitable. Use it wisely..

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:02 | 2244430 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If you say the ruling class, it will be accurate.

The ruling class in US citizenism is the middle class and they have created a system for their entire benefit.

Trouble: resources are lacking to sustain that system.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:49 | 2244459 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

So what happens when the middle class of US citizenism shrinks as they lose employment and descend to the lower class? Since they are no longer middle class, then the system is no longer for their benefit.

I agree that the current system is encountering the restraint of declining resources and is unsustainable.

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 07:14 | 2244529 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

STFU

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 08:04 | 2244566 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Please explain how the fuck this system benefits the middle class.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:27 | 2244886 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

citizenism!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 15:30 | 2245328 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

gave up on AA a while ago. In fact just commenting here makes me less of a citizenism....

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:39 | 2246264 Better_late_tha...
Better_late_than_never's picture

I think they BELIEVE they have created a system for their entire benefit, but everyone is getting duped in the process. If an arsonist sets a fire in a theatre and then the fire alarm goes off, but all the people in the theatre just contiune watching the movie because they really like the movie and don't smell any smoke...

I'm the type to person to leave a building as soon as an alarm goes off. I also happen to stack ag and lurk these forums. The ruling elite have all the money and power. They aren't going to share it. Just like I'm not going to share my silver with the poor bastards who get wrecked in the big crisis. The middle class chooses to flunk history class and spend all their fiat going deeper and deeper into debt, becuase there is the illusion of a giant safety net under us all. These fuckers all over the upper business world aren't stupid, they know its bad and its going to get worse, but they can't sell ad space or get reellected being legit. They are also looking to profit from it. Its a giant world of "fuck you, got mine." out there. This is just natural selection working its way forward in time. The winners will be the ones who actually read the manual. Kyle Bass et al.   

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 11:55 | 2247348 pavman
pavman's picture

Any student of history knows the government will come for your gold, silver, et al.  That's the rub.  Eventually, they'll come for you and your store of wealth.  Its the nature of the beast. In fact, they've already changed the laws so any transaction of gold over 10k is reported (guess what... 10k is a hair over 5oz).  What do you think those records will be used for?

Maybe Kyle should sell spots @ his compound for the survivalists.  I know I'd consider buying an emergency rinky dink place there in case the SHTF.  Safer to be with the prepared (even if you are prepared yourself) than to be on your own.  Unless they pull a WACO on Kyle's ass.  Then you're frucked either way.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 08:09 | 2244582 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Yeah, me too. I wonder if I can get a room next to Bidermen at the Funny Farm. The market goes up seemingly every day, gold and silver don't go up nearly as much as they should considering the amount of liquidity being pumped from the world's QE firehose. PM stocks are the only stocks that don't follow the underlying commodity or the SM higher. It's insanity.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:33 | 2244893 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

The fed is accomplishing its goal:

so far wages flat for 5 years

home prices flat since 2003---- 9 years

total net wealth flat for about 7 years

and 7 years inflation at about 5% = 35% LOSS in purchasing power without loss of wealth

Inflating standard of living away------rather than deflation.  Actually fairly simple concept....to undo the bubbles and start equalizing USA  standard of living with that of Chinese over a 20 year time period

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:45 | 2244931 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Those are not the Fed's goals, though they may be the consequences of. The Fed is the front for the fraud of fractional reserve banking, where commercial banks create money from thin air and then lend it out against the collateral of productive assets. It allows the TPTB to steal much of the productive assets over time. It's simply the scam of the century.

All of those other things you discuss are the logical outcome of a gigantic leech siphoning from the system.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 22:46 | 2244119 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Here's some troubling evidence that inflation is already out of control!!

I was making Mac and Cheese for the kids and noticed the expiration date had gone past. I grabbed another box and noticed the price tags. I was shocked by the difference. I have two boxes of the same exact product. One box had an expiration date of 05 Dec 2011 and the other one was 01 Sept 2012 - essentially one year apart. The cost of the first was $.82 and the cost of the second was $1.75. Both were purchased at the same store and it was the price as marked (not discounted because this store does discounts at the register when they scan your card).

A 113% increase in one year on a staple product is certainly representative of food products in general. Have we already entered a hyper-inflationary environment? This is a massive increase in price! I've already seen product size shrinking and I doubt the government is taking these subtle pricing techniques into account in their calculations.

My guess is the inflation ship has already sailed and we are now just waiting for a general realization that inflation is out of control.

I've got the pics to prove it and am happy to share!!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 22:55 | 2244129 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Inflation is transitory- Ask Janet Yellen

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:17 | 2244157 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

So is the economy.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:40 | 2244662 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Hmm. Was the brand of rapidly inflating mac & cheese by chance Uncle Ben's?

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:16 | 2245046 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Kraft

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 14:02 | 2245160 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

I just checked at store, and an 8 ounce box, versus standard 5.5 ounce box you are talking about, can still be had for $1.00. I am convinced that grocers are raising prices because shoppers are OK with paying more, case in point being you having overpaid by like 150%. People complain about price increases, but they don't try for a better deal by trying harder and shopping around including at places like Aldi and dollar stores.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:38 | 2246267 juslen
juslen's picture

That is how prices work. Prices are whatever people are willing to pay. Since there are more dollars chasing fewer goods, prices rise, that is in reaction to inflation or an increase in the money supply. The fact is, those bargain stores have always existed, people have always been shopping at Wal Mart instead of going to a discount store. If more people went to discount stores prices there would rise as well. To some people, Wal Mart is the discount option, prices are rising in the smaller grocery chains so they go to Wal Mart, people see prices rise at Wal Mart and they go to Aldi's or the Dollar Store. And who's to say that prices at the dollar stores have not been rising as well? Sure, they might be cheaper than Wal Mart, but they have always been cheaper than Wal Mart. Many of the bargain stores also sell in bulk, they have fewer selections for food so they can afford to charge lower prices because they get more volume in sales. If Wal Mart slashed their prices to match the bargain stores, the food would go flying off the shelf, there would be shortages, prices would  have to rise to meet demand. But Wal Mart has to make a profit so they can satisfy their shareholders and maintain current wages and benefits for employees. 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:01 | 2244134 Victorio
Victorio's picture

what the hell's the matter with you feeding your kids that shit. least you could have done is use an organic brand you cheap bastard. stop poisoining your kids...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:04 | 2244138 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Point taken... I should be ashamed, but much better than the spaghetti and meatballs out of the can that I was fed!!!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:20 | 2244248 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Robbie Robertson - Somewhere Down The Crazy River
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KP9PNSUME4 (4:52)

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:08 | 2244675 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Don't apologize to some loser telling you you need to buy 'organic'... Pffft! WTF is that?... Radiation from Fukushima is washing up on the shores of California & some idiots are running around trying to sell you "organic" shit from there because it was grown in a fucking commune...

All it takes to make pasta dough is an egg and 100 grams of flour...

BTW ~ I'm not arguing that food prices aren't inflating, but thus far, if you're industrious enough you can still mostly avoid the effects...

I can remember the prices for 'staple' items (like pasta), going back years... I know this, because the last time I 'stocked up' on dry pasta (spaghetti's, farfalle, etc.) was when I was buying them in 2008 at big box retailers (like BJ's)... As recently as last month, I was still eating boxes of spaghetti that I'd bought in 2008...

Anyway, I frequent the markets a lot looking for items on sale... I remember LAST year that the same Barilla pasta boxes were $1.67 (at a different supermarket), and so I said "wow"... Anyway, just last week I noticed the same pasta for .99 cents a box (which was the 2008 price)... Needless to say (& now with the experience of knowing that it preserves very well), I bought another 4 years worth...

I have NO EXPLANATION as to why the price was low again. My 'logic' tells me that:

1. They were overstocked and trying to clear inventory

2. That people on SNAP cards are your basic "mac & cheese" buyers (not you ~ but in general)... & since you can get food at fast food restaurants w/SNAP cards, people may be doing that... I'm not sure how many SNAP users have memberships at BJ's or Costco (& frankly, I don't know if you can use SNAP cards there, I've heard you can use them at Wal Mart)... Anyway, my guess is that you can get cheap bulk food if you know what you're looking for because of this phenomenon...

Also, a supermarket 'insider' told me that the best time to come in is on Wednesdays (which is when many of the bulk clearance specials happen ad hoc)... I've gotten incredibly cheap meats, hams, & vegetable oils on those occasions... Go right after Easter Sunday & Memorial Day weekend, 4th of July as well... Most end up with inventory they want to clear... It's like "after Christmas sales" (the supermarket version)...

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 07:45 | 2246748 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

SNAP cards can be used at some of the bulk stores. I hear there are people who buy their friends' SNAP credits for 50-60 cents on the dollar and use them all to purchase bulk rice, flour, canned goods, etc...

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:42 | 2244917 Errol
Errol's picture

FWIW, I've learned that kids actually LIKE sliced raw little carrots in their mac n cheese; the flavor is about the same and they like the crunch...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:07 | 2244140 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Victorio

"least you could have done is use an organic brand you cheap bastard"

Organic food is just another way to part hipster suckers from their money. Penn and Teller's BULLSHIT had a great episode on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhBKtjDtTVk

Taste test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IoNQHMFLk&feature=related

And this from Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food

Nutritional value and taste

According to the UK's Food Standards Agency, "Consumers may choose to buy organic fruit, vegetables and meat because they believe them to be more nutritious than other food. However, the balance of current scientific evidence does not support this view."[33] A 12-month systematic review commissioned by the FSA in 2009 and conducted at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine based on 50 years' worth of collected evidence concluded that "there is no good evidence that consumption of organic food is beneficial to health in relation to nutrient content."[34] Other studies have found no proof that organic food offers greater nutritional values, more consumer safety or any distinguishable difference in taste.[3][6][35][36] A review of nutrition claims showed that organic food proponents are unreliable information sources which harm consumers, and that consumers are wasting their money if they buy organic food believing that it contains better nutrients.[37]

Although it is commonly claimed that organically grown food tastes better than conventionally grown food, reviews of the literature that looked at the sensory qualities of the two have not found convincing evidence that there are any significant differences.[4][3]

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:27 | 2244173 Victorio
Victorio's picture

vast difference in taste, quality, nutrient value, genetic value, and toxin levels of organic vs nonorganic produce and grains. this is a fact. wether or not it is true on the megacorporate food producer level is disputable depending on the product in question. but to make the assertions you did and apply them to all "organic" products is plain ignorance.   

if its not organic then more than likely it contains gmo material and is therefore likely toxic. 

 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:37 | 2244177 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Victorio

Obviously it is not " a fact".

It is a bias to make you feel better allowing someone to con you into paying twice the price for a substandard product.

You remind me of the Banana woman in the Penn and Teller video, who blames Bananas for her failing to discern the organic from the normal.

Read it and weep

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8110680/Organic...

Organic vegetables 'no healthier than conventional food' Organic vegetables are no healthier than food grown conventionally despite their premium price, according to a university study.

The study by environmental scientists at the University of Copenhagen was published by the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry.

Crops were grown at different times of year and in different parts of the country to get a balanced return.

This is because the kind of soil, the difference in climate and attacks by pests are major factors in the amount of polyphenols produced by plants.

Organic crops are more expensive and because of this have attracted an image of being a middle class purchase.

They are often perceived as being healthier, though consumers also cite environmental concerns, taste and texture and animal welfare as other reasons for spending more.

The researchers reported: "The demand for organic food products is steadily increasing partly due to the expected health benefits of organic food consumption.

"On the basis of the study carried out under well-controlled conditions, it cannot be concluded that organically grown onions, carrots, and potatoes generally have higher contents of health-promoting secondary metabolites (polyphenols) in comparison with the conventionally cultivated ones."

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:46 | 2244197 Victorio
Victorio's picture

actually it is a fact.

take any non-gmo variety raised organically, in organic soil, with organic fertilizers, without pesticides and you will have a vastly different product than its conventionally raised, genetically modified, chemically fertilized, poison sprayed counterpart.  to dispute this fact means you have no real world experience in the matter and instead rely on some hack comedians, and corproment entities to form your opinion for you. alot of their bs shows were bs, like the one on chiropractic for example. i suspect they are corporate shills.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:10 | 2244299 Augustus
Augustus's picture

You can list all of the buzz words used to sell the "organic" propaganda.  It would be much more productive for you to actually look at the nutritional data.  Relying upon hack scaremongers and propaganda merchants to establish your misguided beliefs will cost you in cash at the market and a great deal of self esteem when you recognize eventually that you've been suckered.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:14 | 2245040 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

@Gully Foyle, Penn & Teller are BULLSHIT. They had a show on alternative medicine to support BIG PHARMA, and they say alternative is hoax. I know for a fact, several people are cured using alternative when doctors tell them they need medicine for the rest of their life.

We only buy organic not produce that needs to be kept separate from organic because so many chemicals are attached it will pollute vegetables on store shelf. Go ask produce manager why they wrap some organic in cellophane.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 14:56 | 2245255 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Guys, part of the confusion is the definition of organic.  The government standards are not very high, so most of the stuff on the shelf that's labeled "organic" is no different than the regular chemo-crap.  So when a government agency--which by the way has waged a war on natural food-- says organic food has no benefit, I'm not surprised. 

But obviously, the definition of organic that Victorio has in mind has a higher standard than the minimum government requirement for package labeling.  And if you've ever had "real" organic, there is a difference.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 15:15 | 2245297 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Well, they're not actually waging a war against natural food. They're working against whomever they're bribed to work against. If they were bribed more to work against General Foods' products, they'd work against them. They work on the basis of corruption not ideology.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 19:24 | 2245916 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Actually, they are literally waging war on natural food.  There are many news stories of Federal agents, armed with assault rifles, raiding farmers for the terrorist act of selling raw milk.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:14 | 2244358 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Don't bother, Gully. Some marks actively resist being let in on the con.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:33 | 2244184 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Your comments are toxic. Troll.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:36 | 2244191 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Non Passaran

Funny.


Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:49 | 2244215 Dr Bob
Dr Bob's picture

Hilarious. This post is how the Gov/FED is completely lying to the world about our economy and yet you sight Gov research to bash organic foods. Think about it, dumbasses. They are most likely lying about that shit too. Especially when you have Monsanto running the FDA. Its that shitty food you are eating thats jacking up your brain. Other peoples f*ckin children, for goodness sakes. 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:14 | 2244307 Augustus
Augustus's picture

If the government puts a sign up that says "Bridge out".

Do you insist on ignoring it and drive into the river because you NEVER trust Anything the government says?

I suggest that you should purchase some life insurance if you have a family relying upon you.

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:29 | 2244650 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

The gubmint shoulda put up a barricade, not a sign you see moments before you hurtle over the edge, making the wife and kids rich at taxpayer expense.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:15 | 2244712 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Dr Bob

Sure it's the food fucking people up, not say their own disinterest in what goes on around them.

Big governemnt conspiracy to move people away from organic foods produced by large factory farms who are part of the conspiracy.

Yeah I can see how effective that is.


Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:55 | 2245150 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

"Circle of Poison" just keeps increasing its diameter,...

Grow your own, period!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 08:43 | 2244610 Landrew
Landrew's picture

It's not the nutritional value that changes with organic food you moron! It's grownwithout the fucking pesticides and herbicides! On my fathers small farm you have to wipe the pesticides and herbicides sprayed by crop dusters off to sit in a chair outside!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:12 | 2244710 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Landrew

Every single food related death in recent History has NOT involved poisoning by pesticide. The most recent being E-coli related deaths from ORGANIC food.

Show me the REAL stats on people who die yearly from pesticides and herbicides they have taken in eating produce?

Other than a handful of scare mongers, you know those anti-vacination types, no one is sick from too much pesticide or herbicide on their produce. Of course the scare mongers make money off fools everyday.

Everyone should wash their produce before eating anyway.

Now read the following and weep.

 


http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/18/mythbusting...

Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture

Myth #1: Organic Farms Don’t Use Pesticides

When the Soil Association, a major organic accreditation body in the UK, asked consumers why they buy organic food, 95% of them said their top reason was to avoid pesticides. They, like many people, believe that organic farming involves little to no pesticide use. I hate to burst the bubble, but that’s simply not true. Organic farming, just like other forms of agriculture, still uses pesticides and fungicides to prevent critters from destroying their crops. Confused?

So was I, when I first learned this from a guy I was dating. His family owns a farm in rural Ohio. He was grumbling about how everyone praised the local organic farms for being so environmentally-conscientious, even though they sprayed their crops with pesticides all the time while his family farm got no credit for being pesticide-free (they’re not organic because they use a non-organic herbicide once a year). I didn’t believe him at first, so I looked into it: turns out that there are over 20 chemicals commonly used in the growing and processing of organic crops that are approved by the US Organic Standards. And, shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a damn good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 1. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

The sad truth is, factory farming is factory farming, whether its organic or conventional. Many large organic farms use pesticides liberally. They’re organic by certification, but you’d never know it if you saw their farming practices. As Michael Pollan, best-selling book author and organic supporter, said in an interview with Organic Gardening,

“They’re organic by the letter, not organic in spirit… if most organic consumers went to those places, they would feel they were getting ripped off.”

What makes organic farming different, then? It’s not the use of pesticides, it’s the origin of the pesticides used. Organic pesticides are those that are derived from natural sources and processed lightly if at all before use. This is different than the current pesticides used by conventional agriculture, which are generally synthetic. It has been assumed for years that pesticides that occur naturally (in certain plants, for example) are somehow better for us and the environment than those that have been created by man. As more research is done into their toxicity, however, this simply isn’t true, either. Many natural pesticides have been found to be potential – or serious – health risks.2

Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns***, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year by fisheries management officials as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species.

The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you definitely wouldn’t want sprayed on your food.

Just last year, nearly half of the pesticides that are currently approved for use by organic farmers in Europe failed to pass the European Union’s safety evaluation that is required by law 5. Among the chemicals failing the test was rotenone, as it had yet to be banned in Europe. Furthermore, just over 1% of organic foodstuffs produced in 2007 and tested by the European Food Safety Authority were found to contain pesticide levels above the legal maximum levels – and these are of pesticides that are not organic 6. Similarly, when Consumer Reports purchased a thousand pounds of tomatoes, peaches, green bell peppers, and apples in five cities and tested them for more than 300 synthetic pesticides, they found traces of them in 25% of the organically-labeled foods, but between all of the organic and non-organic foods tested, only one sample of each exceeded the federal limits8.

Not only are organic pesticides not safe, they might actually be worse than the ones used by the conventional agriculture industry. Canadian scientists pitted ‘reduced-risk’ organic and synthetic pesticides against each other in controlling a problematic pest, the soybean aphid. They found that not only were the synthetic pesticides more effective means of control, the organic pesticides were more ecologically damaging, including causing higher mortality in other, non-target species like the aphid’s predators9. Of course, some organic pesticides may fare better than these ones did in similar head-to-head tests, but studies like this one reveal that the assumption that natural is better for the environment could be very dangerous.

Even if the organic food you’re eating is from a farm which uses little to no pesticides at all, there is another problem: getting rid of pesticides doesn’t mean you’re food that is free from harmful things. Between 1990 and 2001, over 10,000 people fell ill due to foods contaminated with pathogens like E. coli, and many have organic foods to blame. That’s because organic foods tend to have higher levels of potential pathogens. One study, for example, found E. coli in produce from almost 10% of organic farms samples, but only 2% of conventional ones10. The same study also found Salmonella only in samples from organic farms, though at a low prevalence rate. The reason for the higher pathogen prevalence is likely due to the use of manure instead of artificial fertilizers, as many pathogens are spread through fecal contamination. Conventional farms often use manure, too, but they use irradiation and a full array of non-organic anti-microbial agents as well, and without those, organic foods run a higher risk of containing something that will make a person sick.

In the end, it really depends on exactly what methods are used by crop producers. Both organic and conventional farms vary widely in this respect. Some conventional farms use no pesticides. Some organic farms spray their crops twice a month. Of course, some conventional farms spray just as frequently, if not more so, and some organic farms use no pesticides whatsoever. To really know what you’re in for, it’s best if you know your source, and a great way to do that is to buy locally. Talk to the person behind the crop stand, and actually ask them what their methods are if you want to be sure of what you’re eating.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:59 | 2244816 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

Writer of piece has a lot of bullshit in there (and also goes on to defend GMO foods without any factual acknowledgement whatsoever of the other side). Just as an example, as someone noted, the very study cited regarding e coli states-

, “…the E. coli prevalence in certified organic produce was 4.3%, a level not statistically different from that in conventional samples.”

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:29 | 2245082 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Propoganda, You keep eating your vegetables and processed food with synthetic chemicals and carcinogens. In the end... we will see natural selection and the ones who take care of themselves will have fitter genes to pass on to future generations.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:51 | 2245143 I_ate_the_crow
I_ate_the_crow's picture

Congratulations Gully, you've displayed a truly epic string of disingenuous and/or hopelessly stupid posts on food.

Every single food related death in recent History has NOT involved poisoning by pesticide..... Show me the REAL stats on people who die yearly from pesticides and herbicides they have taken in eating produce?

Obviously you erroneously failed to include deaths from cancer, heart disease, stroke, etc in the first statement. 2,4,5-T herbicides are dioxin poison and comprised one-half of the Agent Orange death recipe. The other half is 2, 4-D. Monsanto/Dow AgroScience have received preliminary USDA approval for 2,4-D herbicide resistant GMO corn. 

Like any other extended exposure to poison, disease will eventually manifest itself as the toxins build up in your system over time. You won't drop dead from eating an ear of corn at dinner. Depending on your genetic predisposition to toxic buildup disease will manifest itself in any number of forms not the least of which being cancer. Our bodies are amazing and can deal with a lot of abuse but eventually they can't take it anymore.

The real danger of these dioxin-laced herbicides is to human reproductive organs. Multiple farmers have watched their animals go sterile from eating GMO grains. Considering where these chemicals originated this shouldn't be surprising as Vietnam estimated there were around 500,000 victims of birth defects following Agent Orange exposure. Notice what I said above - - the effects will manifest much quicker when the poison is sprayed on you than when ingested in mild doses - - but over time the result is the same: premature death and/or sterility.

The most recent being E-coli related deaths from ORGANIC food.

To understand why this is wrong you will first need to familiarize yourself with Codex Alimentarius. I'm not going to explain to you but after you do so you will understand why "organic vegetables" were the media's scapegoat for the recent German e-coli outbreak. 

First of all, e-coli is an intestinal strain of bacteria that only grows inside the guts of animals and people. Thus the source of all this e.coli is animal, not vegetable. Second, the antibiotic super resistant ecoli bacteria is the result of the atrocious factory farming practices that takes place across the world, especially in America. If not genetically engineered and intentionally/unintentionally released into the food supply in the first place, a jacked up factory farm is where these super ecoli bugs come from.

In any event blaming such outbreaks on organic/raw food gives the FDA/EU the soundbite justification needed to severely regulate small organic/raw farms.

All of this is not to say that your skepticism of the organic industry is not warranted. Fascist big agriculture has been going after the profits of the organic industry with zeal and even a "USDA organic" label doesn't mean what it used to (only has to be 90% organic now). If you live somewhere that forces you to shop at whole foods or some other corporation you have to be really careful what brands you buy as these stores do not have your best interests at heart and make most of their profits from the store brand "all natural" crap they sell.

Check out cornucopia.org for some DD and be sure to check out the chart of consolidated ownership which underscores all the organic brands to ignore. The best way to go about eating organic food is to find a farmer's market and talk with the farmers there until you find one who treats his farm the way nature intended it to be treated. I can assure you that the nutritional content and taste of this kind of produce is something to behold and your body will have never felt better after a while. Localharvest.org will help you locate them.

It's not about some stupid hipster trend to eat local organic food, and you are definitely not being fleeced if you figure out the right way to go about it. It's worth every penny to know I'm not supporting the corporate republic. Like everything else in this insane world, it's about taking control of and responsibility for your own life and health as a local community without any input from Monsanto, McDonalds or Smithfields hired pigs roaming the halls and occupying the corner offices of the FDA and USDA.

Good luck either way, but maybe take a break from posting the farcical government/university studies as a basis for your opinions.

 

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:09 | 2244760 Baleful Runes 4 U
Baleful Runes 4 U's picture

" "Consumers may choose to buy organic fruit, vegetables and meat because they believe them to be more nutritious than other food. However, the balance of current scientific evidence does not support this view"

That's not why people purchase it, so it's a straw man study. They are attempting to avoid pesticides and hormones. Now to what degree the labeling can be trusted is another matter.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:08 | 2244296 10mm
10mm's picture

One day that will be better than REAL STEAK.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:47 | 2244797 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

"what the hell's the matter with you feeding your kids that shit. least you could have done is use an organic brand you cheap bastard. stop poisoining your kids"

Better than the Hamburger Helper mixed with pink slime that they will get at the local school ...

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:03 | 2244136 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

AbelCatalyst

Mac and Cheese is NOT a staple product. ( Toss some Garlic in it to make it extra tasty, and for the carnivores Bacon).

You could have purchased a discounted product, reduced because expiration was coming. Amazon does that but haven't noticed it all that much lately.

Food inflation, duh. People have been mentioning it for at least a year here.



Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:08 | 2244142 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

people were going ape-shit on each other earlier over expiration-date trolling on medicines and foods

you are not alone in taking those dates to heart, but i go w/ the frozen on sale and the kids can't have any

not at $1.60/lb! 

 

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:01 | 2244753 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

looking at this the next day, the expiring macNjizz box is a clear winner again, here, but with wholesome fuking overtones this time and a "reasonable" mom, too!

who's got the eye-dropper?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:31 | 2244172 Spigot
Spigot's picture

First, we assume a normally functioning economy...

In spite of your 113% inflation we posit that you, having noticed the increase in price, substituted something else for the Mac-N-Cheese which currently costs the same as the year old box of Mac-n-Cheese. So, that problem is solved ie - there was no inflation.

If you chose not to do a substitution that's actually an upgrade in the value of your purchase by 113%, so this shows you are wealthier than last year.

We will include this net increase in wealth in our calculations showing that GDP has increased by 113% due to your renewed prosperity.

Thank you!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:43 | 2244194 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

+1 Very funny!! And there is a ring of truth which is not so funny!! Which makes it more funny. So the level of humor dispensed is somewhat inflationary...

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:11 | 2244233 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

No, actually he chose not to substitute an inferior good by chosing not to buy expired macaroni but instead he purchased fresh macaroni- clearly a value added item. As such, he has incrementally increased his standart of living by the price difference. We will also have to consider this increased quality of life and adjust  GDP upward. 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:50 | 2244807 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

We are approaching a point where that sort of GDP upgrade is a taxable event ... Sort of like the increase in value on that ounce of gold you buy to preserve your wealth.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:49 | 2244674 kill switch
kill switch's picture

We will include this net increase in wealth in our calculations showing that GDP has increased by 113% due to your renewed prosperity.

 

Where can I get some of that cheese?

 

Mike Boskin


Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:08 | 2244295 SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

Hey Ben, your 15 minute inflation stopping clock is ticking.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:58 | 2244392 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I junked ya for admitting you feed your kids fake plastic food.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:57 | 2244463 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Race Car Driver said:

I junked ya for admitting you feed your kids fake plastic food.

Please realize, sir, that in doing so, you have junked all of Canada. They take their Kraft Dinner seriously, buddy.

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 08:10 | 2244588 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Lets look for treasure!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 14:00 | 2245162 Elvis is Alive
Elvis is Alive's picture

" The cost of the first was $.82 and the cost of the second was $1.75."

You see that is your problem right there. You are paying for food. If you got on food stamps, the mac and cheese would be free, and you would have more money in your pocket to spend on an Iphone.

So do your patriotic duty: get on food stamps, buy an Iphone, and watch the economy grow.

Only terrorists pay for food.

 

 

 

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 03:20 | 2246549 Nassim
Nassim's picture

Learn to cook and don't buy factory produced garbage - and save money.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 12:05 | 2247376 pavman
pavman's picture

I don't think we're in hyperinflation.  High inflation is bad, but hyperinflation is worse.  And you would know its hyperinflation.  Prices would be increasing daily. Just ask the Brazilians or the myriad South Americans who survived the 80s.  

Albeit, if one believes we've entered the inflationary (or hyperinflationary) stage, then go take out a big fat loan and buy assets and just wait. Because in hyperinflation, assets tend to increase along w/ the prices of goods :)

You know the economy is bad when KMart not only re-introduces layaway but starts advertising it on internet TV.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 22:52 | 2244127 Carpathia
Carpathia's picture

War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Black is White.  so it goes.....

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:15 | 2244143 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Carpathia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGeFf_rIAVQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0TuhKsxuOY&feature=related

LOS BRAVOS
"Black Is Black"

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

If I had my way
She'd be back today
But she don't intend
To see me again, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Bad is bad
That I feel so sad
It's time, it's time
That I found peace of mind, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 22:58 | 2244133 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Wasn't there a famous reply given to the enemy during WWII of... NUTS!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:32 | 2244448 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Gerneral A.C McAuliffe, Battle of the Bulge, Bastogne, winter 1944. 101st Airborne plus some reinforcements surrounded by Germans, was asked to surrender. The MSM reported a few days later he said "Nuts". His biography was titled "Nuts" This was 1944 = what he actually said was "Fuck You", of course, he was Airborne Infantry for christ's sake. The official return message said nuts, explained to the perplexed Germans as 'go to hell'. The original fuck you is officially denied to this day, of course.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:11 | 2244148 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

A personal favorite quote by the Tylers and Zero Hedge:

"The market is a farce, wrapped in a joke, inside a tragicomedy."

http://prelude.zerohedge.org/article/spy-flash-crashes-nyse-cancels-500-million-worth-trades?page=2

So true.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:06 | 2244833 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Conrad would be pleased.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:16 | 2244152 foxmuldar
foxmuldar's picture

I doubt the fat cats at the Federal Reserve ever had Macaroni and cheese. Their too busy munching down their $50 dollar a plate steaks and $100 a bottle wine. When you can live like they do, I doubt they ever noticed the price of things we normal folks have to buy that keep going up.  They just print more money and put anything they buy on their credit card. Im sure their cards don't ask for 13% interest like the cards many of you and I have are asking and some even higher. 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:19 | 2244158 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

But, they'll tell you when prime rib and garlic mashed potatoes get too expensive, just switch to Mac & Cheese with hot dogs.

 

Problem solved!  No inflation here, move along....

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:08 | 2244294 FedBunny
FedBunny's picture

As as a Fed bunny, I can tell you definitely that they have maraconi and cheese, only theirs has big chunks of fresh lobster mixed into it. The chocolate mousse is quite excellent, too, and is made with Valrhona chocolate. And, yes, they don't really care about you. Why should they? You don't get it, do you?

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:17 | 2244153 ekm
ekm's picture

How's that different from 2008?

The primary dealers had bought up the whole market as they have done now. They had to let Lehman go for two reasons:

- Nobody was buying

- NYSE could have gone out of business due to low volume

What's changed?

Right now:

-Primary dealers have bought up all the market

-Nobody is buying but they are sellling stocks to each other

-NYSE volume is horrendous

Questions:

- Is NYSE to big to fail? The answer is yes then another Lehman is required to increase volume during a selloff.

- Who is the the other Lehman? MFG was to small. WHO IS IT? BAC???

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:31 | 2244176 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

> All of this is driving me even more nuts than I already am.

He's not alone. I think many of us are being driven crazy by corrupt government policies.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:32 | 2244182 gwar5
gwar5's picture

"Terminal evacuation of faith"    LOL! That is too funny.

 

Biderman is right. And looks like things will be hidden and manipulated right to the bitter end which pretty much rules out any orderly transition to a new (fake) monetary system. It's going to be devastating to the man on the street, waking up in Belarus. It's a huge betrayal. Abandon ye all hope... arggh!

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:39 | 2244187 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Since the FED doesn't count food, energy, or housing in their inflation figures they can, and do, deny the existence of inflation. Oil seems to be the three hundred pound elephant in the room as it is not as readily discounted or controlled by FED policies, hence the need to keep the M.E. and other oil regions in turmoil in order to keep the price of oil tied to fear, speculation or supply and demand rather than inflation.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:35 | 2244188 Keith Piccirillo
Keith Piccirillo's picture

Barry Ritholtz has covered Biderman and TrimTabs in depth. 

Something tells me Chas. is right but dark pools masque it well. 

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:45 | 2244199 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

The Bilderberg members are all eyeing the swab of arsenic to dab on their tongue, secret’s must be kept secrets. //LOL

Quite the opposite is happening! The frail secrets are slowly being exposed.  

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:24 | 2244255 Koffieshop
Koffieshop's picture

Secrets? What secrets?
The way stuff has been going down lately it should be clear to everyone that the whole "developed world" is one big fascist ponzi.

It's just most don't give a shit, are used to the disinfo, or aren't paying attention. The signs of treachery are everywhere however. Take this little factoid posted by A Lunatic above for example; "The FED doesn't count food, energy, or housing in their inflation figures". Think about this for a second. What does this tell you about the state of leadership, journalism and public perception? How far removed is this from North Korea style propaganda?

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:04 | 2244289 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Koffieshope, you've only been here for 30 weeks. I tend to have a dry sense of humor, compounded with sarcasm. We love our country very much. Unfortunately, only the 1% see the scam being pulled off. [Not a joke]

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:30 | 2244325 Koffieshop
Koffieshop's picture

I've been here a bit longer then that. It's just that I registered when I felt confident enough to actually post.

Anyway, I'm not saying things are that much better here in NL. They way the Greek dept deal way presented here by the local MSM as an achievement is a disgrace. It's no surprise I guess. Even honest journalists would think twice before printing something that would scare the shit out of the average man.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:11 | 2244355 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Understood, roger that.

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 23:49 | 2244213 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Honest men will never go out of style.

Perhaps someday they will even win.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:59 | 2244393 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  I hope so...

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 05:11 | 2244473 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Cabreado said:

Honest men will never go out of style.

Perhaps someday they will even win.

Honesty, integrity, and trustworthiness are way oversold and are currently a great contrarian play. Eventually, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, look for a bull market in honesty, as its inherent value will be recognized once again. This value will be leveraged by the scarcity of honesty and the fact that trust cannot be printed, but instead takes work to build and must be carefully maintained.

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:20 | 2244240 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The masses haven't reacted violently yet to real inflation, keep printing. As long as the stock market keeps going up that's all that matters. 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:21 | 2244249 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...gotta love Charlie and his quick little ''I'm sickened by this'' chuckles he throws in. Lol. Guy is a riot. 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:45 | 2244262 non_anon
non_anon's picture

some times you feel like a nut, sometimes you are

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:03 | 2244825 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Long Mounds

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 00:55 | 2244272 JR
JR's picture

The stock market is not the economy. It doesn’t have the width, depth and breadth of an economy. A vibrant economy is built by a free people working in their self interest with hope for the future in a climate of fairness and equal opportunity. The stock market can’t do that.

Bernanke’s use of his office to put money in his friends’ pockets in the stock market is a cheat; it’s immoral, unethical, and a violation of trust in the market. It is central planning at its worse. Bernanke is manipulating the system to reward cronyism, inefficiency, criminality and protected reckless risk that penalizes growth. At the same time he is punishing those who find better and more efficient uses of resources to invent processes that actually improve lives, i.e., the competition. These people, of course, don’t get a penny.

It’s the giant, government-connected insiders such as the recently insolvent Goldman Sachs, the GEs and Toll Brothers that get the money. And what do they do with it? They pad their cushions and bank accounts and ski at Davos.

It’s the opposite of the American system.

To top that, Bernanke doesn’t even mean well; he’s proven that he doesn’t have any civic responsibility; taking from the innocent and giving to the guilty.

As Jim Quinn said, it’s a fallacy that the current economy can return to normal, especially based on Wall Street peddled financing. “Can you think of a better business model,” he asks, “than being a Wall Street bank? You hand out 500 million credit cards to 118 million households, even though 60 million of the households make less than $50,000. You then create derivatives where you package billions of subprime credit card debt and convince clueless dupes to buy this toxic debt as if it was AAA credit. When the entire Ponzi scheme implodes, you write-off $200 billion of bad debt and have the American taxpayer pick up the tab by having your Ben puppet at the Federal Reserve seize $450 billion of interest income from senior citizens and re-gift it to you through his zero interest rate policy. You then borrow from the Federal Reserve at 0% and charge an average interest rate of 15% on the $800 billion of credit card debt outstanding, generating $120 billion of interest and charging an additional $22 billion of late fees.”

Adds Quinn: “Now that the American taxpayer has picked up the tab for the 2008 debacle, the Wall Street banks are again adding new credit card accounts....”

Bernanke, Obama and the BLS are pulling out all stops to paint a political depiction of an economy in recovery, using a combination of Dow Jones and fake BLS figures, apparently to orchestrate Obama’s re-election.

It isn’t working.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:05 | 2244344 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Absolutely spot on.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:10 | 2244754 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

jimQuinn?  on a biderman string?  how adroit!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:38 | 2244373 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

EXCELLENT anaysis JR!  Gold....

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 17:08 | 2245564 Howdan
Howdan's picture

Wow. Seriously this is one of the best, most accurate, insightful and spot on comments I've ever read on ZH.

I take my hat off to you sir!

+100000

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 01:10 | 2244297 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Their time is coming to an end people.  These fat cat American financiers are dying and leaving their children a broken Empire.  History will not be kind to them and they know it.

The big question is whether the American people will eat each other and lash out at the world because of it.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:08 | 2244435 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Point one is a very uncertain observation.

Financiers dying? Everyone is dying. Financiers in this US driven world are probably the slowliest dying kind.

They will die way after many others.

The question is easy to answer, US citizens nature is eternal.

Everyone that will be eaten by US citizens will no longer be a US citizen. Being eaten will mean having lost US citizen status.

This is how US citizenism works.

The second part is obvious: yes, of course. US citizens are expansionists. Expansionists never solve issues internally, they export them.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 07:05 | 2244524 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

STFU

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:04 | 2244629 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

ONE POINT THREE BILLION CHINESE

...and we get you.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:04 | 2244343 CornSyrupSolids
CornSyrupSolids's picture

"Vera . . .Vera . . . What has become of you?  Does anyone else in here feel the way I do?"  And by that I mean: alright already, let's stop the manipulation and get on with the correction!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:40 | 2244375 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $55,000 for reference to Pink Floyd!

There is very little to compare with physical gold in these times.  Buy...

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 02:45 | 2244380 CornSyrupSolids
CornSyrupSolids's picture

I could use the $55,000 for my student loans.  Please wire immediately!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 03:08 | 2244396 q99x2
q99x2's picture

So hold the market up around 13,000 + until election such that people can get their money out and make the economy appear somewhat like what the Feds are feeding CNBC. What happens after elections? The idea presented would also presume elections are still dependent on voters choices and further that Presidents are more than symbolic.

The timing of the collapse is likely the most important concern and as stated the long end has a limit when the current exponential phase of printing brings an end to the monetary system.

It will not be that long. Concensus seems to be after election. Why? Are any of the elitists running better fit to bring down the country than another? No but Jeb Bush might be.

Brown Brothers - Harriman

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 03:26 | 2244409 Conax
Conax's picture

The inflation in food is painfully obvious, and even my friends and relatives who aren't yet awake are bitching about it.

A big grocery chain here is selling lots of generic products downsized about 25%. You can buy 12 oz bacon packages for a shade less than what a pound cost a few months ago. This week I saw crappy bacon priced $6 a pound. Ice cream is on a tear, too.

As for the factory farm/organic discussion above, to settle that just buy a package of store tomatoes, then stop by the farmer's market and buy some. The difference is like night and day, no doubts.

The corruption everywhere does drive us mental. We are raised to believe that the markets are free, price is controlled by supply and demand, and a lot of other bullshit. We were lied to. Cronyism, corporate fascism, back stabbing and workplace politics are the name of the game now. We're in trouble, we are going mad.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:12 | 2244438 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The corruption everywhere does drive us mental. We are raised to believe that the markets are free, price is controlled by supply and demand, and a lot of other bullshit. We were lied to. Cronyism, corporate fascism, back stabbing and workplace politics are the name of the game now. We're in trouble, we are going mad.

_________________________________________________

Lied to? Well,no. US citizens choose to ignore a certain number of facts about US citizenism, prefering to believe they will always be on the right side of the fence.

As one of my old coaches said "if you start thinking like a loser, you are already a loser"

And well, US citizens have made that statement a fundamental part of their creed.

Alas, while they are slowly sliding toward the loser side, well, suddenly, assessing the outcome of the game is difficult to ignore.

Alas, alas, alas, questioning the rules of the game not before taking part into the game but only when you start turning a loser, has a right name: it is called being a sore loser.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 07:04 | 2244523 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

STFU

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:36 | 2244657 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

 

A fraud is a fraud.  If I enter into a fraudulent contract or have it done for me, even if it's beyond my knowledge, it's still a fraud and I should seek recourse at the first possible opportunity.  This particular fraud was planned 200 years ago, enacted 150 years ago and sealed 100 years ago.  I doubt a loser mentality is to blame for that.  

Let me assert now in no uncertain terms that the Corporation UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a silly FRAUD.  The nation of thieves is so funny when they assert all the things posters are complaining about here.  I was entered into a fraudulent contract with this silly outfit and of course I have to slowly seek recourse.  Survival is paramount and living well is the best revenge so I'm on the slow track, but I'm damn sure aware of the FACT.

The reason you can't ignore this shitstorm of fraud and corruption is at some point your flesh becomes rotten just in order to survive.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 04:32 | 2244450 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

I sell some stuff at markets, the sad part is that people have gotten to used to perfectly round, red, but completely mediocre tomato varities favored by mass growers that they pass up the really good, often older varieties because they look different. Like everything else in this society, its appearance over substance.  If you can get them to try a real tomato you generally get a convert, but most are used to junk 'maters.

But yes, by all means support your local farmers market!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 09:27 | 2244649 Winisk
Winisk's picture

A friend of mine recently tried to raise two broiler chickens to maturity.  Before they reached a half a year of age she felt so sorry for them because they were grotesquely large and unable to walk that she decided to put them down and have a large roast chicken supper.  Upon carving into them she noticed that some of the flesh was lime green.  Turns out the flesh was gangrene!  The birds cannot even provide enough circulation to all the muscle.  The chickens we eat today are designed to self destruct. 

I have a small flock of layers.  The eggs are variable in size, shape and colour because they come from different chickens at differing ages.  I cringe every time I see the uniform white eggs at the grocery store.

When is a chicken not a chicken.  Our food is fake. 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:44 | 2244733 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I thought todays breeds are not supposed to be left alive more than about 60 days.  She went half a year.  Of course they rotted.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 10:06 | 2244700 kito
kito's picture

Amen to that..... +1

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:45 | 2244799 Kali
Kali's picture

True Story:

Many moons ago, my new in-laws (they live in country, raise horses for barrel racing) had us over for Turkey Day dinner.  I am famous for my delicious old fashioned pumpkin pies made from my homegrown pumpkins.  I brought 4 of them, since it was a fairly large group.  My new sister in law made pies from the can.  At end of day, no one ate my pies but ate all the "canned pies", except for a few pieces my sis and I ate.  I asked some of my new in-laws why they didn't eat the pie.  They said "it doesn't taste like pumpkin pie".  People are so used to eating "fake" food, they don't know what real food tastes like! BTW most "canned pumpkin" isn't pumpkin at all, it's a similar squash.  Just like McD's "apple pies", not made from apples, but "flavored chayote".  People don't even know or care what they stick in their mouths.  (shit, gonna get a lotta wisecracks for this one!)

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 20:10 | 2246008 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

So is dog food....   

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 03:40 | 2244415 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

So how is that ;'Novus Ordo Seclorum' working for you ?

Lock and load bitchez

Looks bullish for the PMs . Hang in there Mr Biderman.

 I speculate lead,copper and brass will be needed in bulk, for the coming spent rounds,Silver for missiles and such (Zinc for the clipping of the empires coins)Zirconium for dental implants that do not conduct electricity.Do not forget the black ops metals..so base metals/exotics should also engage in uptrend also.

disclaimer;The boogey man, can smash any market anytime. You are on your own.

May the forces of the Antifecal matter be with you.....

 

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 11:16 | 2244769 1971
1971's picture

Biderman could be the first person to test the icy cold waters underneath the new Bay Bridge. CaaaaaannoooooooonBaaaaaaall!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 18:33 | 2244819 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Just picture Bob Beckel, the Big Boy of afternoon TV, on Fox's The Five on Friday afternoon, repeatedly holding up a sign with "+227,000 Jobs" ... Does not matter that this was on Fox, just that that is the message that the administration is successfully trumpeting now and every day leading up to the election.

It does not matter that food inflation has clocked in at +10% per year three years running, only that the markets are up, jobs are up, and you are being kept safe from the "bad guys."

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:01 | 2244822 Fast Twitch
Fast Twitch's picture

It's at that time the world goes to electronic banking en mass...micro chips for everyone

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 12:05 | 2244829 Below Zero
Below Zero's picture

I have never made a dime listening to Biderman. Someday it is all gong to go BOOM and then it won't make any difference what anyone says or does. Until then the world is one big block party. Party On!

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:17 | 2245013 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

The reason people are going "nuts" and are "stressed" at all this insane fiscal mis-management (of which we are all pretty much in total agreement of the problems as we've chewed them over a good hundred times) is nobody is acting, they're just sitting there reacting like stuffed gooses

The cause of the stress load is there's no outlet, stress relief, in actual affirmative action

Once you've discussed a problem ad-neusium the next stage is to FIX IT

A dozen gurus will come up with a dozen (or more) solutions (i've heard them all) but there is one simple, effective and fast solution to the problem (ie. Govt intervention in the economy and society):

Stop Paying Your Taxes (don't fund the loopy fukers)

Sorted, game over, stress relieved

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:13 | 2245038 econinme
econinme's picture

Can't they keep this up? It seems like there strategy is credible from the feds side of things. What are the international implications of a "fixed" stock market? Are the Chinese, Brazillians, Russians, and Japanese doing the same thing? Cn they also manipulate the oil market?

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:57 | 2245153 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

I remember recently the Chinese gov said they would be buying their stock market, as "in-your-face, US Fed" no? It's all inflationary asset bubbles, the masses getting slaughtered, savers being punished, even Jim Rogers said Bernanke is in the process of destroying an entire generation of savers.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 13:46 | 2245130 wharfdaddy
wharfdaddy's picture

And I got no chance of Losing this time...How nice to be the Fed

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 15:47 | 2245362 EndTheMedia
EndTheMedia's picture

Excess Reserves the inflationary sleeping giant. http://bit.ly/wgQ6yU

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 18:51 | 2245838 mendolover
mendolover's picture

I like Charles.  He does do a damn good Lewis Black.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 23:12 | 2246007 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

The reason CB or anyone else goes nuts trying to understand what's happening is they can't seem to accept the new reality, bankers are looting the economy now.

The easiest way to loot the economy is print currency and give it to the looters.   A little weath is taken from everybody and given to the looters.

TARP, QE, all that stuff, are reasons to print currency and give it to looters.  When those reasons play out, they come up with other reasons, like Euro currency swaps, IMF contributions, whatever.

When you view it as a massive looting spree, everything falls into place and makes perfect sense.  

That's how you know you're viewing it the right way.  You've figured out what they're doing.  When everything they do fits the pattern and makes sense. 

If you continue thinking in the old reality, trying to get the economy going again, you're going to be continually frustrated. 

They don't care about the economy.  They don't care about America.  They're looting the economy and looting America, stealing everything they can from everyone they can.

Printing currency is the easiest way to do that.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 16:58 | 2248483 neutrinoman
neutrinoman's picture

Truly spoken, yea, verily.

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