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The way to hell
Damnit! After all these years, I though going straight up brought you somewhere else.
And Barbie says, "Math class is tough!!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE) . I am thinking that this was the ONLY toy that Barney Frank had to play when he was young.
Apparently he spent most of his time with Ken, instead of Barbie.
I wonder what the inflation adjusted debt limit chart looks like
Me thinks that the first chart says it all...GAME OVER!
Dump the log chart, it looks too timid.
I don't know--there's still some white space left at the top of the chart.
buh buh buh isn't more always better? my tv tells me so...
Anyone can go straight up, after a certain point you need a little more horse otherwise you feel Gravity taking hold.
hard for Congress to feel gravity when they're already in deep outter space and at ramming speed toward Planet Uranus
"ramming speed toward planet Uranus" mentioned after barney. UGGHH!!!
Ah... Whats another few Trill$...
USD revese split coming down the line anyways.
Will it be $1 new for $50 old or 1. for 100. ???
That will happen after the elites are fully rotated out of dollars.
My wife & her side of the family are from Mexico.
The split ratio is their favorite discussion lately.
Most are saying 10:1. Thats the ratio that the Mexicans usually go with...
"Most are saying 10:1. Thats the ratio that the Mexicans usually go with."
Makes sense, roughly speaking, parity with the Mexican Peso. How low can you sink?
Now, if the Canadian Dollar would fall too, (USD=MXP=CND) then I would finally start believing all of the talk of the "Amero".
Since the last NA Cooperation treaty was signed, the Canadian dollar is now "dirty" pegged to the USD - where it goes, the Canucko will follow - at a discreet distance and interval so as not to be too obvious. Not more than a 10% variance. Well in reach of an Amero forced parity when and if required.
I'm sure someone can produce a historical chart to test this statement....
Any "revaluation" of the USD would be interesting in regards to how it's pulled off. The paper money can be voided in favor of new notes with the new smaller (i.e., one-tenth value) denominations. But coins would probably be left as-is. So if we have to trade in $100 of the old bills for $10 of the new, our coins would be allowed to retain their face value through the transition. So a quarter would then be worth ten times its former value, and therefore "valuable" again.
Just sayin'...those pennies and dimes in your closet jar might actually be worth something at some point.
Of course it's going exponential, a credit-debt system must continue to grow exponential or it will collapse. Right now the system is unable to expand. System reset.
It really is that simple. Money is debt with interest attached. Growth of debt/money is required as there is no money in the system to pay the interest. This isn't about gov't debt solely, rather aggregate debt in the system (household, corporate, gov't and financial). 2000 would have been the beginning of the end but the fed blew up the housing market (with help). 2008 was the same, enter uncle Sam. The end is near.
Not so simple when the creditor and debtor become the left and right pocket, and all interest paid to the right pocket is refunded back to the left pocket. The Fed is slowly and methodically acquiring all the shit debt which changes everything.
Besides the book of Leviticus calls for a debt Jubilee to occur every 50 years. Just wait until the Fed pardons the "public's debt" and we start from scratch. We're a "Christian nation," right?
This charade can go indefinitely. Neither Weimar nor Zimbabwe owed their debts to themselves, nor were those debts denominated in their own currency.
No need to hide those hams quite yet.
I am with you on this one.
I have absolutely no idea what will happen to individual debt such as Student loans. If it is wiped away or reduced, then the Nation gains power from People on up.... if it is increased or greatly interest burden, then the Nation falls into the darkness.
I doubt they would wipe the debts free as that would crush the banks and current owners of this country and, as you say, give the people more power. My quess is this would be the least likely outcome that the owners will allow. However, I would like to be pleasantly surprised.
It will not go on indefinitely, see every monetary system in history. This one will collapse just like all the prior ones have collapsed.
Show me an example where the country in question was, simultaneously, its own creditor and debtor, had debts denominated in its own currency (not reliant on FX markets to service the debt), and, AND, had the largest most powerful military on Earth.
oh, and 50 bonus points if the currency of the country in question was also regarded as the world's reserve currency where virtually all commodity transactions were denominated in it.
Rome? Though I guess you could say that their creditors were the hoards of goths doing their dirty work near the end of the empire's impression of a failed souffle.
Dont foget the visigoths. They had urban planning as well.
Sorry Adolf, we are not our own creditor and debtor.
The interest argument is a red herring as well. Sure the interest is repaid to the treasury, sans operational cost. This is payola for the banks to be able to create credit out of nothing.
For another bonus, what would happen if any large amount of debt was forgiven? Any large discharge of debt would lead to a cascading default.
Even if we did own our own debt, since it is also our currency, we cannot just discharge said debt, as the contraction of the supply of money (reserves) would collapse the whole system.
Why do you think that in 2008 they did not just pay off mortgages? It would have been cheaper.
Cause it would contract the money supply to the point where we would have a waterfall collapse.
Sorry, I will take PMs and my ham orchard thank you very much.
I can understand that discharging debt destroys debt-based money and contracts the money supply. But in our fiat system, wouldn't paying off mortgages have given the Fed the opportunity to create new reserves to prevent inflation? That seems to be what they did anyway, the only difference being that the beneficiaries of the Fed's actions were the TBTFs instead of the populace.
Yep. Either way purchasing power is crushed and the best store of value remains fruit trees, hog farms, and precious metals. All of this is the result of an economic ponzi that ignores the physical contraints of any closed system (such as the earth or solar system) and depends on infinite growth. Common sense should tell you that won't work. Even if we were to get off this rock common sense tells you that all truly revolutionary technology takes time to develop. The only deflation that is coming is the human kind. Food and fuel costs will skyrocket shortly, especially for those not associated with TPTB. No energy, = no food and definately no economy. Look at the real energy costs around the world, America has been lucky for 30+ years because of the deals forced upon the ME in the 70's. Those deals are coming to an end and America doesn't have the capital (because of real capital destruction by Wall street and big banks, but this is another story) to keep subsidising food and fuel. Hold on, now things get interesting.
"For another bonus, what would happen if any large amount of debt was forgiven? Any large discharge of debt would lead to a cascading default."
This is not a necessary consequence of debt forgiveness e.g. where all debts are reduced by 30%. A cascading default is likely to occur anyway even without debt forgiveness.
A loss in bank reserves contracting the money supply can be avoided if you ignore reserve requirements to start with. OR simply have the Federal Government print base money itself to resupply the reserves destroyed by the debt forgiveness.
Someone needs to bring back Glass-Steagal.
Correct me if I am wrong (common occurence with me), but wouldn't the government's raw printing of money be highly deflationary? If they were to issue money without more debt attached, this would hasten the deflationary cascade, would it not? Newly issued notes would dilute the value of old debts, and would not be able to be discharged (theoretically) as old notes are. This issuance would lead to debt being extinguished at a faster rate if I am thinking about this correctly. So Ben's threat of dropping FRNs out of a helicopter would actually be HIS end, not ours.
I am not a banker, and am not familiar with all the TIPS, POMOs, etc. Having only a macro view of the variables, to me it would seem that this would be the case.
If reserve requirements were removed (like they were) then banks could survive (as they have) but it would make them more likely to suffer from either runs (haha) or downright attack as without reserve requirements then there are no standards with which banks can judge the standing of each other.
I agree on bringing back Glass-Steagal, but would even say that we need a good old fashioned collapse so that my children will not grow up as debt serfs, as we all have here, many without our knowledge.
England at the height of her Empire. Ater 2 world wars, a depression, and fifty years of socialism not so much.
Cue "Twilight Zone" music:
You are entering another dimension, one not of sight or sound, but of math.
It is as vast as space, and bounded by infinity.
It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between reason and stupdity,
And it lies between the pit of our debts, and the summit of taxation.
This is the world of fiat currency, a world we call...
the Twilight zone.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." ---Albert A. Bartlett
Link to this must see video here
42 votes up, 6 down... 48 votes.. I don't really feel special as a voter anymore... :*|
so as I read that, to return to the post second world war prosperity we need to peak out the debt to gdp at 140% and not get back to 100% for around 5 years...
Na, if your a republican who voted twice for Bush you'd probably say that we need to start a new world war! Oh, whats that you say? We're officially in three already? Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq... And you say there are more unofficial wars? Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea? Thats all BS, our President is a Nobel Peace prize winner... and those aren't wars -- they're just "non combat operations" of heavily armed troops and big missiles...
You forgot Yemen and Syria is in the fix right now
Lebanon and Gaza also. I figure Iran wil go hot before the end of September, starting with an Israeli attack over a negotiated air corridor with the Saudi's. Then Iran shuts down the dire Straits of Hormuz and Saudi oil with their missiles. $300 oil should give TPTB an excuse for the collapse. It was the Iranians fault for inviting an Israeli attack. Israel also has some serious internal economic problems, with huge street demonstrations by Jews scantily reported in our MSM. Their Ponzi is collapsing. Maybe they should ditch the shekel and join the Eurozone. I figure Gates left defense because he knew how stupid it was but got overruled by the senators and reps from Zion.
War on Drugs anyone?
War on Drugs anyone?
I think they mean, War on Competition. All that South American coke and Afghani Kush belongs to the CIA and the elites. Can't let them dirty brown people cut into globalists profits.
Sounds like you just described the so-called "war on terror".
Or the "War On Poverty"
"War, war, war... fiddle dee dee; all you men run off to play war..."
A cookie for you if you know where this came from.
Scarlett O'Hara, Gone with the WInd.
Uuuurp. Gotta get tough on Crime. Fill those private prisons, yo. Cha-ching$$
Some would argue that the most expensive of all of the operations the US is involved in, combat and otherwise, is currency hegomony with the renminbi. Often this argument is made under a more general observation that WW3 is underway as we speak.
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