This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

First ECB, Now China Says Has "No Plans For Massive Stimulus"

Tyler Durden's picture


First the ECB kicked the stimulus junkies in the crotch in the after hours session, now the PBOC is about to eat their faces for breakfast as both rumors causing overnight and intraday stock ramps are systematically denied. From Bloomberg: "China has no plan to introduce stimulus measures to support growth on the scale unleashed during the depths of the global credit crisis in 2008 according to the nation’s state-run Xinhua News Agency. “The Chinese government’s intention is very clear: It will not roll out another massive stimulus plan to seek high economic growth,” Xinhua said yesterday in the seventh paragraph of a Chinese-language article on economic policy, without attributing the information. “The current efforts for stabilizing growth will not repeat the old way of three years ago." And with that the rug is pulled out from below anyone praying for non-Fed stimulus.

Which only means one thing: those addicted to monetary morphine better pray that this Friday's NFP number come at worse than -1,000,000 as otherwise, with the rest of the world just saying no to more inflation (and not having the safety of a $16 trillion shadow banking deposit-free inflation buffer), Bernanke just may not have the standing to unleash the final CTRL-P onslaught. Of course, with the global Bernanke Put sadly dominating habitual gambler thinking until at least one bank is allowed to fail under the weight of its countless liabilities, idiotic rumors such as these will continue sending risk higher, only to be denied, and to have the whole game repeat over and over.

From Bloomberg:

Pumping in government money to achieve growth targets is “not sustainable” and China will instead focus on encouraging private investments in railways, infrastructure, energy, telecommunications, health care and education, the story said.


China’s benchmark Shanghai Composite Index has gained 1.8 percent since Wen’s call for growth was published May 20. The National Development and Reform Commission may be accelerating construction approvals as part of China’s response, with the planning agency last week saying that Baosteel Group Corp. and Wuhan Iron & Steel Group won permission to build 134 billion yuan ($21 billion) of new factories. The NDRC had delayed approving the two steel projects in 2009, citing industry overcapacity.


Credit Suisse said spending on investment will probably range from 1 trillion yuan to 2 trillion yuan. Standard Chartered said China is starting a “mini-me” version of the prior stimulus.


China’s economy is forecast to expand 8.2 percent this year, based on the median estimate of analysts surveyed this month by Bloomberg News. That would be the least since 1999.


“Unlike in 2008 when the Chinese government rushed to spend, the new stimulus package will be small and modest,” said Zhang Xinfa, an economist with China Galaxy Securities Co. in Beijing. Bank lending will play a smaller role in the new round of investment, he said.

It increasingly looks like that the episode of coordinated global interventions, which started in 2011, may be over rather prematurely, leaving just one former Princeton university professor in charge of the global negative cost of money. 

What can possibly go wrong.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:09 | 2473802 SHEEPFUKKER

Check to Benjamin to print more benjamins.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:11 | 2473807 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

One thing that all banksters have in common is they are all liars.  Of course they will stimulate to save their worthless asses.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:15 | 2473820 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:30 | 2473857 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The people will demand printing next time me on this one.  The central banksters will be off the hook, as it will not have been their idea.  Some subset of "the people" will demand it, and that will be that.  The media will have a story to tell, and they will tell it and tell it:


"Under unrelenting pressure from political and popular groups worldwide, in order to alleviate the devastating financial collapse that the entire world has experienced, the Federal Reserve Bank, the BoJ, the ECB, and Bank of China have agreed to coordinated monetary actions to spur economic growth."

Cue video clips of riots, starving children, wars breaking out, and deliberating political "leaders."

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:48 | 2473889 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Yeah, just like Lehman was solvent on Friday September 12, 2008.

And just like housing prices never fall on a national level.

And just like the subprime issue was contained.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:43 | 2473968 strannick
strannick's picture

If China needs to raise some cash it can always sell its treasuries.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:22 | 2474112 hornster
hornster's picture

5 year plan don't you know any history?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:06 | 2473918 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Maybe they demand that the banks are allowed to fail but the depositors get bailed out this time. Thats my hope anyway.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:53 | 2473985 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Cue video clips of riots, starving children, wars breaking out, and deliberating political "leaders."

Better get the "deer in the head lights" ready - gonna need that one too.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:24 | 2473846 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Yep, until they can't save it anymore.  Also that China rumor is what kept the market in green today and now it was shot down (don't know why they didn't shoot it down before the close).  It's almost as if the rest of the world is trying to jawbone the market into positive.  The problem is that the EU did it so much that now people see through it, and other countries attempt at it aren't as effective and don't last as long.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:42 | 2473879 Manthong
Manthong's picture

China has it’s deals with Japan, Iran, India, Brazil, Russia and likely with a bunch of SEANs and others..

Maybe they are prepared to let the West simmer in its own juices for a while.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:47 | 2474153 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Colombian Gringo wrote ""Of course they will stimulate to save their worthless asses.""


The only stimulus these bastards will get is when they will pay for their mistakes.  Otherwise they should go to a sensual massage parlor and get stimulated with a hand job done by some asian chick for $80.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:00 | 2474252 Unbezahlbar
Unbezahlbar's picture

The 1.3 Billion Middle Kingdom People are very dissimilar then Americans and their society is structured differently from what I read...they have no unemployemnt benefits, no free health care, no free Section 8 housing, no free cell phones, no free EBT cards, and no free SNAP....and they don't retire at 52 sipping ouzo or California Merlot.

My guess is the Hoards will take 'austerity' very seriously.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:11 | 2474393 laomei
laomei's picture

China does have unemployment benefits, socialized (basic) healthcare, highly subsidized government housing, a localized "minimum income" standard and a highly progressive tax system.  Not to mention subsidized public mass transit, no property taxes, and farmers are 100% untaxed on their agricultural incomes regardless of how much they manage to pull in.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:05 | 2474090 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture



(and remember if ths shithouse goes under China will, relatively speaking for too many reasons to outline, fare better than eurozone and usa)

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:12 | 2473804 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Facebook, below 29$.  Suck it MillionDollarBonus

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:42 | 2473967 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Uh. . . . MDB is pulling your leg, you know that, right?


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:45 | 2473977 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

I know MDB is full of it, I just enjoy rubbing in in his face.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:08 | 2474003 BandGap
BandGap's picture

You sir, are a numbnuts.

He should post that he's cost averaging down at this point.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:17 | 2474812 Element
Element's picture

That's what she said!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:12 | 2473812 Cdad
Cdad's picture

And global markets once again make complete asses of themselves.  And somehow we are supposed to be more confident in this jerry rigged, Pachinko machine, algorithm infested, TBTF bank poisoned system.  Right.  Sure.  I'm certain Average Joe's everywhere are rushing to buy shares of Netflix and The Gap and Chipotle.

What a joke.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:42 | 2473969 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

True Dat Cdad.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:12 | 2473813 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Cut to bartering in the burroughs.  Cash no longer king if it's fiat cash.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:24 | 2473832 chump666
chump666's picture

Global ecomomy is still awash with ECB/Fed printing and European goverment spending.

The flow on is slamming into Asia.  Nice.  Hence Asia buying up tons of USD on inflation/meltdown fear.  China is leaking badly, PBoC go all mad and the Chinese will dump the Yuan like a rotten dim sim.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:44 | 2473884 chump666
chump666's picture

I repeat

"China is leaking badly, PBoC go all mad and the Chinese will dump the Yuan like a rotten dim sim."

thank you

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:04 | 2473913 CPL
CPL's picture

Then the big red button is pushed.  

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:30 | 2473954 JeffB
JeffB's picture

Asia buying up tons of gold.



Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:20 | 2474018 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

While the US is manipulating gold lower.  From today's gold action:

One does not drop 11,000 contracts in a ten minute period in what might be called a reasonable trade. 

Will the CFTC investigate, asking the seller why perchance they did this? No, and that in itself speaks volumes.

But the solution is not to try and trade these scandalously under-regulated markets, but instead to hold long term investment positions, preferably as far away from Wall Street as is possible.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 00:38 | 2474215 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

"Will the CFTC investigate, asking the seller why perchance they did this? No, and that in itself speaks volumes"

Here is the reply from the CFTC: 'Blow me'.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:22 | 2473840 SaveTheBales
SaveTheBales's picture

Miss Direction?

Are you ready for your Close-up, now?

Bankers fail to print and take the loss themselves?  Yeah.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  And they're doing God's work, and helping people with their mortgage problems.  Who knew?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:23 | 2473843 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

ES down almost 4 handles after being run up 16 on the rumor of the news.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:39 | 2473870 Conman
Conman's picture

Oh, just wait. It'll be up 4 handles sometime during the overnight session.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:54 | 2473899 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Yes, but that will be on new found hopes of a Greek solution, unicorn tears, and gum drop dreams.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:00 | 2473996 Conman
Conman's picture

Yup, Greece will announce they found Medusa living in a cave, but she can turn people into gold isntead of stone. Millions will be sacraficed but Europe will be savedd. Oh wait isnt that waht "austerity" is doing?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:24 | 2473845 q99x2
q99x2's picture

There goes my contractor's license.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:26 | 2473852 Christoph830
Christoph830's picture

Talk is fucking cheap. These guys will print and print until fiat collapses under its own weight. I'm not buying it.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:05 | 2473916 CPL
CPL's picture

No one else either.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:27 | 2473854 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture
JPMorgan Securities Investigated In Japan SESC Probe

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:27 | 2473855 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

They should open some soup kitchens.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:29 | 2473856 dragoneyes74
dragoneyes74's picture

Bernanke will hit the print button because American leaders are elected and stocks must be rising, the dollar must be killed to boost exports and GDP needs the government spending to keep from deflating.  The only question is whether QE3 happens in July or August.  


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:31 | 2473860 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture



Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:31 | 2473861 e-man
e-man's picture

China won't even bail out China?  But I thought they were going to bail out Europe... I think someone needs to re-tool the rumor mill.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:34 | 2473863 SaveTheBales
SaveTheBales's picture

Perhaps China has made the calculation that they will outlast their competitors at this Central Bank Breath-holding contest.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:44 | 2473883 e-man
e-man's picture

The stage is set...Bernanke will yell Leeroy Jenkins as he hits Ctrl P.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:19 | 2473939 Alpacanio
Alpacanio's picture

And why not... China is buying every ton of gold they can find. Trade and currancy deals all over the planet...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:41 | 2473874 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Krugman: WTF!!!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:41 | 2473878 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

Denial among the Banks is so strong, they have lost their minds. The massive public and private debts already can not be repaid so..... wait a minute, they essentially have nothing to lose one way or another, they are FU--ed. 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:49 | 2473886 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

"China has no plan to introduce stimulus measures to support growth on the scale unleashed during the depths of the global credit crisis in 2008 according to the nation’s state-run Xinhua News Agency."


Exactly, this crisis needs 3x as much, diminishing returns Bitchez!....

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:44 | 2473973 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

HSBS guy on Bloomberg Surveillance this am said all this - no stimulus, will be confined to a few infrastructure projects, China's growth is still chugging along, according to him.  

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:50 | 2473892 adyaner
adyaner's picture

Dueling Banjos baby¡¡¡¡ ECB vs Benji...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:54 | 2473986 Chump
Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:59 | 2473906 carefreemanjoe
carefreemanjoe's picture

The Chinese are questioning why they should take the stimulus vaccine when they are not the ones who are financially ill.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:20 | 2474819 Element
Element's picture

Ah! ... see! ... decoupling!

Someone page Peter!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:02 | 2473910 witness2012
witness2012's picture

Month end mark-up

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:04 | 2473912 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

either china is smart and using treasury bubble to buy gold & hard assets cheap or copy catting ECB & Ben's speech. Read my lips, no new stimulus. 

china's vaunted long game is mystique without warrant--Zhou Enlai's fabled retort to the question, "what do you think of the french revolution," ... "it is to early to tell." the cocktail talk of management consultants and financial sinologists for decades, was a false translation. Enlai was talking about the student riots of 1968 rather than the 1789 thing.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:00 | 2473995 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Who gives a fuck about the Rockefellor agent?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:04 | 2473914 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

China must be doing well.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:10 | 2473922 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

great news

 Futures brokers would need to get approval from a top executive before making big withdrawals from customer accounts under a rule now pending and referred to in the industry as the "Corzine rule", after MF Global's former CEO Jon Corzine.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:13 | 2473925 reader2010
reader2010's picture

I don't believe it. They either hold on to power or they don't. Given that fate, tell me there are no more drugs coming.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:18 | 2473932 kuso
kuso's picture

Tim Duncan handed Stephen Jackson the ball, and suddenly it was 2003 all over again. Jackson raising up from 25 feet. Duncan's eyes growing you're-not-really-going-to-shoot-that wide. The 3-pointer sliding through the net. Duncan patting Jackson on the head, the roar of the AT&T Center

MEMpHis GRIzzliEs JERseyS

falling upon all these San

GOLdEN STAte WaRRiors JeRSeys

Antonio Spurs, another tense late-May playoff battle turning in their direction.The Spurs rallied to take Game 1 of the Western Conference finals from the Oklahoma City Thunder, needing just three minutes to erase a nine-point deficit in the final quarter. It was their 19th straight victory, tying the NBA record for the longest winning streak extended in the postseason, and, no, Duncan didn't expect this. Truth be told, he wondered, at times, like everyone else. After all those playoff wars won and PhoeNIx Suns JerseYs lost, wouldn't the Spurs finally dismantle themselves and try something new?I heard we were dead," Duncan said.Duncan laughed. He was sitting at the Spurs' practice facility, two days before the start of these conference finals. Gregg Popovich walked past and chided him for sharing a private moment with a reporter. Across Duncan's 15 NBA seasons, the only coach he's known is Popovich. The Spurs' All-Star guards – Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili – have played with Duncan for LOs AngeleS LakErs JErseyS 11 and 10 seasons, respectively. This isn't normal. Not in today's pack-for-South-Beach NBA. So, yes, Duncan wondered. He wondered whether Ginobili would eventually want a bigger role. He wondered whether Parker, in what Duncan likes to call "his Hollywood years," wanted a bigger market. And he wondered whether his own body would allow him to keep playing at the level he needed."But we've all found a home here in San Antonio," Duncan said, "and

BoSToN CelTics JerseYs

we all love it here."They've stayed for one simple reason: "It works," Nba sHOes Duncan said. "There's no two ways about it. If something doesn't work, you break DeTrOit PIstonS JERseys it up and you do something else. We've all accepted our roles, we've evolved over the years and we've all been happy with it because we believe."

MilwaUKee BuCKS JerSeYs
Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:27 | 2474124 mendigo
mendigo's picture

What is this?

Does it seem like a lot of crap is being injected into the discussion area?

Why would someone do that?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:18 | 2473935 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

In other news, China ink and paper imports up sharply. Go on, pull the other one...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:19 | 2473936 HaroldWang
HaroldWang's picture

So the machines will figure out that ECB = no stimulus. China = no stimulus. So...that must mean US will launch QE Infinity! Then there will be a rally, again, on lousy data and hopes of QE Infinity. This game was old two years ago. Now it's just painful.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:45 | 2473976 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Trading the Cargo Cult way - soon a better crate will wash ashore!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:34 | 2473957 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

BERNANKEY he's gonna bail out the WHOLE WORLD yipeeeeeeeeee!!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:46 | 2473966 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

OT: An interesting article I never thought I'd see anywhere. The Rockefellers and Rothschilds unite:

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:47 | 2473980 SDRII
SDRII's picture

Never any word on why the former rock and co killed himself?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:45 | 2473975 JackT
JackT's picture

Why do they all leave it to the FED? And why on Earth are the Chinese building more factories?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:15 | 2474009 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

The Fed has been sitting back and not doing much, as it amounts to Ben farting. They've been letting everyone else do the meaningless heavy lifting for them.  The problem for Ben is, the rate of the collapse is greater than any QE he can provide.  Sure he can provide 200 trillion dollars, but it'll just make everything collapse even more.  No matter what they print, the collapse will be bigger than what they create. 

Chinese should build more factories.  Just not ones that deal with exporting crap for western fiat.  There's plenty of room for them to build factories for their domestic needs. 

There is a shortage of what we and the world needs, caused by the overabundence of what we don't need but the oligarchs have given us.

Unless actual growth resumes, we collapse. If we print for fraud, we collpase.  If we collapse the fraud, and create credit for actual wealth producing endeavors, we survive.  The markets, and the people/countries that make up them don't believe in the fraud anymore.  They will believe in the important stuff, but not the rest.  What we currently have everything stacked into, is, the rest.

Only a few more days until the Irish referendum.  This time, the Irish may actually vote for a REAL change.  Gerry Adams is leading the NO vote.



Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:48 | 2473982 SDRII
SDRII's picture

Q the WSJ article on how unstable the Chinese banks are. Gs has been selling down it's icbc stake

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:48 | 2473983 ankehaton
ankehaton's picture

this probably has more to do with (re-)election campaigns than anything else. the equity markets are so scared right now that just the threat of closing the cash spigot will send them correcting. people who think the dow = the economy will panic, demand more printing, and ben will be happy to oblige just in time for november.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:59 | 2473994 Krypter
Krypter's picture

Too many people reading zerohege

Singapore banks' CDS spreads widen sharply

Five-year CDS spreads of DBS Group Holdings, United Overseas Bank and Overseas-Chinese Banking Corp have widened by around 20 percent each over the past month.

Credit default swaps of DBS have widened 21 percent to 125.77 basis points, that of UOB by 20 percent to 123.96 bp and OCBC by 19.1 percent to 125.724 bp.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:13 | 2474012 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

China doesn't need govt. stimulus to grow it just needs to squeeze business, as it has been doing. Govt is pushing investors into business and commodities as stocks and property are unattractive.

Some idiot academics are saying 3% growth. However, Shenzhen exports up 10% compared to April of last year. Foreign trade in Shenzhen also saw a 15.7% increase compared to the same period in 2011.

The reality is China govt. more competent ref supporting economic growth than US. Helicopter Ben is lucky to be born in the USA he would be working in McDonalds if he was born in China as that is his what a person of his intelligence should be doing.



Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:20 | 2474020 S474NtheD3v1L
S474NtheD3v1L's picture

can u asses stop with the face-eating jokes? that was a horrific tragedy, not funny

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:44 | 2474059 adr
adr's picture

The original tragedy was called comedy.

My brother in law who is a pastor has given up on society. He said that he just doesn't think people are smart enough to be helped anymore. If this is the world we now live in, the enemies of God have won, let the rapture begin.


You can have your face eaten or get carjacked, gangraped, castrated, burned and shot. Or just be walking home after watching fireworks and have yourself, wife, daughter, and son attacked by a 150 person large ghetto mob.

When everything goes to shit you can't help but laugh and realize it is the fault of all the shits that talk about it and do nothing.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 00:59 | 2474254 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture


Welcome to my alternative reality if you choose to partake.

Your brother in law is welcome too, share this message as you can.

Imagine if people are doing stuff every day. I mean really hard stuff, working out every day to get er. done, being strong being a bitch slave to the man, getting by.

Imagine or better yet don’t imagine. Run for the hills if you need to, don’t expect me to support your ass on the back side.

I love you but I don’t go down with the ship mostly, cause I’m a life boat builder.

If the water is not cold, I can swim for miles and miles and miles, week after week, day after day I swim.

In the physical world, our world we live.

I’m on my lifeboat, reaching out to you and your brother

Don’t get to freaked out, I will ship him my bug out bag and get another if he is in need, otherwise tell him to snap out of it if he can, gently and with love.

There is a lot going down, and I am expanding my circle of friends who give a crap about how it will be.

It is a good bag, nice stove, water filter, lots of food and 10 oz of silver.

I will keep my new pistol.

Let me know if this would help you, present your case for ROI. I love ROI.

Do what you wish.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:24 | 2474024 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

“China’s economy is forecast to expand 8.2 percent this year, based on the median estimate of analysts surveyed this month by Bloomberg News. That would be the least since 1999.”

The figure of GDP growth above led me to dig in a bit, do a little research on a country I know so little about in the current world. They have a fabulous track record for growth by % of GDP per World Bank 2007 – 2010

Their nearest competitors on this record per my read are Ethiopia, and Myanmar - strange bedfellows.  

Tables in this Wiki link show both GDP and PPP from 1992 – 2011.'s_Republic_of_China

Impressive to see how 1.3 billion people put their boots on, went to town and kicked ass to raise their standard of living to such a high degree in such a short time. Bruce Lee and Sun Tzu would be proud.

Whatever China is going to do, you can bet all the (“tea in China” = worlds derivatives) on the fact they are not looking at this world through rose colored glasses, everybody is trying to figure out WTF is going on from so many dimensions: long view/short view, Opportunity/risks, immediate issues, and what gets done when by who and how much is it going to cost, who is going to pay?

All the Oracles are spun #11 trying to figure out.. WTF is going to happen and when?

Nobody knows, TBTB don’t know, Bildebergers don’t know, ZeroHedge don’t know, Bloomberg don’t know, nobody knows.

Don’t give me that look now; otherwise I will have to go all Chinese on you..

Put my boots on, go to town, kick ass.

In your town now.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:05 | 2474092 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Mike,  I really don't know either but I now a light bulb that burns twice as bright lasts half as long, and China has burned so very brightly!

Channeling Blade runner there!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 00:06 | 2474170 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

Thanks Dan,

For hanging with me and firing down your insight you cruel beast. So a value proposition I see from your casting of reality is how we could team up with China to make a better light bulb.

Shine brightly and last a long time.

Our world leaders to my knowledge are not having these conversations now or if they are they are not sharing this perspective, maybe they are but I am not listening now, perhaps I never will.

We are and that’s what matters most now.

Thank you again sir.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:46 | 2474062 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture


All data is nonesense but reality is reality, China will keep on growing as it makes everything and has all the cash. There is still another couple of decades of growth in China via exporting to all the countries that everyone forgets many of which have lots of commodities.  Add to that their embryonic domestic economy which is exploding with growth.

By the way great name.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:51 | 2474155 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture


All data is nonesense but reality is reality”  ++ where dragons meet.

In reality data is a tool, a stout walking stick suitable to gain some traction across those slippery boulders of the rushing rivers, or thrash the feral dogs about to submission because they thought you were meat and were wrong.

China’s growth trajectory is heading down, way down now, this could either tank to 0, level out, or go up or bounce around.

If they have a bunch of our cash, and need some help, I’m sure we can make some good things happen for them. Food is good, nothing like a side of Iowa pork on the North Korean frontier to keep a guy all randy to get home to his girl.


What about biodegradable plastic? They got it from takes corn.

What if we redirect our best scientific and math minds from trading algos to the real world?

Our IP laws suck, I’m sure if the ligations part of our society  had their way we would be charging  a $1 apiece for each time they ate a piece of toast each day under licensing agreement.

On the reverse side, their IP laws suck worst.

Our world leaders to my knowledge are not having these conversations now or if they are they are not sharing this perspective, maybe they are but I am not listening now, perhaps I never will.

Fight the good fight brother dragon, be you red or white or silver, or the Chinese luck kind.

Put your boots on, go to town, kick ass.

Have 0 tolerance for the lie no matter who it comes from even you.

That’s what fight club is all about.

Great name brother, keep on rockin!


Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:27 | 2474269 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

All the savings, eh?  Sure, they have large holdings of the debt of a nation that could conceivably default by CUSIP.  Advantage who?  They have a corporate sector that probably is unprofitable, save for gains from real estate.  They have a public sector that is not only unprofitable, but holds non-performing loans to the tune of 40% or so, which is enough to wipe out every bank in the country faster than anything Spain could do.  They have a real estate market ostensibly valued at $150 trillion, which is two and a half times worldwide GDP, and more money than China has earned in its "glorious" 5000 year lightbulb history (by the way, even with that headstart, somehow they didn't get around to making the first lightbulb).  Loans on the margin---whether from state banks or via the shadow banking system---are made based on that delusional valuation, so it IS an issue, just like it was an issue in Japan in 1989 when Japan's supposed land valuation was equally absurd.  In the last few years, the return on new debt, in terms of GDP, is abysmal and not much more efficient than Greece. They are also losing friends faster than Facebook owing to constant bullying, usually over some piles of rock.

I have a sneaking suspicion you equate "reserves" with "profits".  Perhaps you might take a moment to understand why and how China's M2 growth dwarfs anything Ben tries to do.

I'm sure your overlords appreciate your incessant cheerleading, but truth be known, you kind of sound like a foreign English teacher away from home for the first time in a faraway land.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 22:53 | 2474077 Dorky
Dorky's picture

Who cares about what the authority says. Soon, they will reverse what they have said in the past.

No stimulus becomes got stimulus.

No QE becomes got QE.

It's all the same old shit being played over and over again.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:13 | 2474104 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Dapper Dan,

China is a 5,000 year old light bulb.

As far as the "light bulb that burns twice as bright lasts half as long" I guess the US would be a better example of that.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:56 | 2474158 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

China has really only recently acquired wide spread electrical usage, that being my point.

In 2009 China surpassed the United States to become the world’s top energy consumer according to the International Energy Agency, consuming 2,252 billion tons of oil equivalent energy from sources such as coal, nuclear power, natural gas and hydro-electric power—about 4 percent more than the United States.

  China has come a long way in a short period of time. In 2000, it consumed half the energy of the United States.

Bears repeating, in 2000 it consumed half the energy of the United States.

China now accounts for 12 percent of the world’s energy demand but its rate of consumption is growing more than four times the world’s rate. Energy consumption rose by 208 percent in China between 1970 and 1990, compared to 28 percent in most developed countries. It is expected to double in the next 20 years. Every two years China builds as many power plants as Britain has since the 18th century.

China used the energy equivalent of the burning of 2.7 billion tons of coal in 2006. China has vowed to cut energy consumption for every unit of economic activity by 20 percent by the end of 2010. But the opposite is happening. China is consuming energy at a rate much higher than experts had originally predicted, China will use the amount of energy in 2010 that experts originally predicted it would use in 2020.

China may have been around 5000 years but they were dark for 4950 years.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 00:29 | 2474200 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

Yea Dragon, they are starting to have power outages and I bet this summer they will be facing a lot of rolling black outs.

I think they need a grid upgrade, think we could help them with that? We owe, we owe, so off to work we go.

We owe these folks a debt, we should reach out and settle up.

What do you think that would do for market stability?

Someone is going insane.

It is not me.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:07 | 2474201 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture


Someone is going insane.

It is not me.

I don't think so anyway,,

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:06 | 2474262 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Why did they turn the power off for 2500 years?  Conservation?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 23:24 | 2474121 mendigo
mendigo's picture

I don't get it - when did we start believing the ECB or BOC statements. If anything these would be bullish indicators. And do they really need to publicly announce thier market interventions? Really I don't see the point of quoting these people Does the Fed really have achoice at this point - they are suddenly going to stop feeding this monster they've created? The question is not "if" but "when" and "how much" and "who" will be the major award winner on this round - if it really matters. The Fed will have to time the stimulus so that we get the quick rush of wealth before the election and the bitter taste of inflation falls after.

It is interesting that there does seem to be a lot of finacial news lately - as if the masters are losing control of the game.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 00:21 | 2474189 MikeMcGspot
MikeMcGspot's picture

You are the master mendigo.

No one is going to save us.

Many people are struggling around the world to hold on to a piece of crap that is keeping them from drowning,  whilst looking for the best exit point of no return.

No one is going to save us.

It is up to us, we are the only ones here now. All 7 billion of us..


I'm going to keep on screaming that until you decide you are a master of the game.

Just a hand reaching out to a strong person per my view.

All the best!

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:37 | 2474284 Venerability
Venerability's picture

But "unattributed" means we could see headlines declaring exactly the opposite later today or tomorrow!

The whole point of anything "unattributed" is that the media outlet can then say "Oh, No, we made a mistake" a few hours later.

This is especially true of anything like this out of China, since they do not like "frontrunning" of any kind whatsoever and spring Traps, Bull or Bear, as standard operating procedure.

In this case, very possibly a MAJOR Bear Trap. (There frankly aren't any Bulls left to Trap, anyway.)

Note that Chinese vice premier wrapped up multination European trip today, during which he conferred with some highly UNUsual Suspects.






Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:15 | 2474354 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Great points Dapper Dan and I especially like your comment "China may have been around 5000 years but they were dark for 4950 years".

No one that understands China denys that they have a lot of problems that need fixing just as all countires do.  The big difference is that China is still growing and increasing exports, growing the domestic economy, buying up commodities world wide, not waasting too much on their military machine compared to other major powers and increasing the quality of life of the majority etc

The key difference is that the quality of life of their people gets better, today is better than yesterday and they can be optomistic about tomorrow .  That can not be said in the US or Europe.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:21 | 2474358 withoutwax
withoutwax's picture

Hi All,


I'm new here, but would appreciate your thoughts on this theory - that the CIC is a cover for the NWO:

Followed  by:

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:27 | 2474363 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture


I am actually a white dragon from a western country, ex military and currently an entrepreneur in the land of the Dragon.

I agree that we all need to fight the good fight. We shouldn't allow others to divide us and we should build our networks of friends and like minded individuals. I think there is a half decent chance that the shit will hit the fan and we will all need support to get through it.

I am also of the "grab bag and silver" School of thought and I share that philosophy with my network.  Keep up the good work on your end.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 05:29 | 2474508 Jacks Creation
Jacks Creation's picture

So silverdragon, what do you think of the way the Communist party treat members of Falun Gong? Or the way it treats other dissidents?

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:46 | 2474374 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Cosimo De Medici

By cash I mean all the Renminbi in the bank accounts of all the Chinese people. All the Gold and Silver they have stuffed away.  The property that all the people own. The value of all the businesses that are continuing to grow as the domestic economy grows and China accesses all the unloved export markets.  The cash in all the company bank accounts.

Bottom line China has shitloads of cash.

No I did not mean the couple of trillion in reserves as that is "chump change" used for buying foreign commodities and assets.

And no I am not an English teacher, instead an entrepreneur with multiple businesses and an extensive China based network, who has been around the world several times dozens and dozens of countries etc There is no overlord, accept the wife.  I am just tired of all the nonesense written about China and make a point of helping people understand reality.

Isn't that the point of ZH?




Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:53 | 2474377 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture


There are no freebies in China so everyone has to work their arses off.  By not printing money it makes their economy stronger. 

They are getting stronger as the West parties like a drunken sailor in a brothel with a big bag of coke on his mates credit card.


Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:40 | 2474412 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Currency and finance is only one tool in The Game.  The Game is about global supremacy, and many national leaders outside of the West are thinking in terms of nation-states: not corporations, economic unions, and trade agreements.  Does China have problems? Of course: many of them.  But China is playing The Game; a strong currency in the face of Western devaluation grants China access to resources and allies.  China is not the only nation playing The Game.  Didn't a couple nations just snatch their resources back from Europe?

The nation-state is not dead, at least in those parts of the world not ruled by a central committee of fund managers and bankers.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 04:57 | 2474459 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

massive hard-on coming, oh yeah!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!