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SNB in the market?
er, let's try not to mention the impact of a Greek debt writedown on already insolvent banks...
Leave the Eurozone?
and WTF should they? When Greece plunges into bankruptcy chaos we'll have a nice big fat juicy target for every other European country, and an all-new standard of living target for every single European.
The future's bright, the future's ...bullshit.
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Just proof that they have no clue how this works, and no one else knows for certain either.
If Greece defaults and doesn't leave the Euro then the Euro is going to take a HUGE hit. Interest rates will shoot up for all the countries, including Italy and Spain. It will simply trigger the next round of crisis, except for nations too big to bail out.
Keeping Greece in the Euro will doom the Euro for certain. No Euro will be left unless they kick Greece out.
You're all too negative in the short run. ECB will print. SNB stays pegged. Bank accounting rules are changed. Nothing happens (for at least the next two to five years). Futures are green. DAX is up 2%.
Yes......we WILL default.......but we're staying in the basement with our Doritos and video games.
Out of their minds. Train wreck 50 meters
'Of course, once Greece sets the precedent that default is ok, and when Ireland, Portugal, and ultimately Italy, decide to use that approach, and recalling that French banks are on the hook for €410 billion to Italy alone, we wonder what French Fitch's opinion on that particular matter will be.'
Now, Tyler, that would entail some foresight.
salt water, bitchez!
What's next? Oh I know... They won't default but will leave the EuroZone...Yep! the 2X2 box of possibilities is now complete!
How bureaucracy can provision for that we are not too clear.
How bureaucracy can provision for that we are not too clear.
They don't need to UNTIL WE don't play along with them anymore..coming soon I hope
The greece fire is not that big a deal. Let them get a capital one credit card so they can get air miles.
It is the globalist test case. To see how far they can hammer the citizen base, and get away with it. All the discussions are lip service. The plan was set and the actions are and have been underway.
The earth is converting to pottersville, one country at a time.
Perhaps Greece should consider splitting into two separate countries which occupy the same physical space. The spun-off country would be known as “Greekster”, and would keep all of the past debts and the failing governance model, while Greece retains the brand name and only provides government services through the Internet. Greek Prime Minister Papandreou can hastily draft an email to other European heads of state saying, “Sorry. I messed up.” Greek citizens will automatically receive dual citizenship in both countries, and will pay two separate tax bills instead of one. Problem solved.
Because unfortunately as most know, there is no charter precedent for keeping a bankrupt country in the EU and currency union.
Hang on. The EFSF is illegal under the EU treaties. The ECB's sovereign-supporting bond-buying sprees are illegal (or very close to the wire) under the the EU treaties. But default inside the Eurozone is 100% legal under the EU treaties: the treaties are very clearly set up to make default not only legal but more or less mandatory for bust member states after IMF assistance fails. Arguably sovereign default inside the Eurozone is economically infeasible for Greece (because it'll need a devaluation as well), or politicially infeasible (because other countries will be furious and will demand some kind of actual or symbolic revenge) but in legal/treaty terms it's no problem at all. Repeating the idea that you can't legally default inside the EZ is playing straight in to the hands of the Merkozy/ECB/etc. Big Lie that their actions are intended to save Greece or save the Euro, when of course in reality they're intended to save the banks.
Greece defaulting and remaining in the eurozone is like saying that santa-klaus is real.
Oh well, let's remain calm until the actual default is delivered to the markets and find out if it will be accompanied by gifts...
If there are no gifts then there is no incentive for Greeks to remain in the Eurozone.
I didn't say that Greece will default and remain in the Eurozone. I don't know if it's plausible that Greece will actually remain in the EZ after defaulting. That wasn't what I said.
You are right, you only argued that is possibility under the EU treaties.
But the reality remains that there aren't any incentives for an indebted country like Greece to remain in the Eurozone after defaulting.
Not any that I can discern for the time being...
ZH persists is misunderstanding the Euro currency. The Euro floats totally independently of any government(s) or economy(ies).
It is a unique currency, designed to take the place of the dollar in a few years time. It is more than 65% reserved by gold.
Greece has more gold per capita than China and the US.
Do some maths.
The Euro (currency) will thrive. Tackling Greece's bankruptcy is a good thing.
ZH is losing its way, just criticising everything. It mocked as Euro leaders sought to save Greece, it will mock when Greece defaults. Childish journalism that is.
HTF goin for the trifecta of nonsense?
Troll elsewhere please.
Good Lord default already. Get it over with.
I think Edward Harrison at creditwritedowns said the same thing. He has been pretty accurate
Good news, I will take one-in-six odds any day.
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International Monetary Fund says there is a one-in-six chance that Britain is in another recession
Greece will never be allowed to leave the €-zone! Everyone speculating about a rebirth of the Drachme has no idea about what's going on in Europe. The € is the basis of the integration process. Greece will default in October if the extended EFSF is passed until then - resulting in a lot of troubles. The euro(c)rats will take advantage of the chaos to force people to agree on establishing the european economic government and launch the €-bonds. Mass media is going to tell the sheeples that this is the only solution to all the problems.
Think about it.
- Liquidity agreement of central banks- Troika Punch and Judy show - Postponing the ESM (no longer needed)- ...
Things have to become far worse than they are atm. They are all acting in concert...
I think you are spot on, this is exactly what is being planned. It is going to be sickening to behold.
However the end result will be even more central planning, missalocation of resources and a huge increase in the burdens of regulation and taxation born by citizens and business. Euroope will become LESS competitive as a result and LESS democratic.
Will we get any searching questions from the media, a debate enriched with critical thinking and detailed analysis. No, we will be led to a `this is the only solution` resolution like bloody sheep.
But if Greece goes bust and stays in the Euro, they need to hurry up the integration because if Italy / Spain go too, its game over. Perhaps Italy and Spain will be told to just hang on in there until the paperwork is in order, so as not to frighten the flock.
Why should a Greek default force it to leave the Eurozone. Does a bust state(california comes to mind, but there must be others) have to leave the dollar zone?
If Greece defaults, they will be left, hopefully with a manageable debt load, and it will be up to them to convince the markets that they are worthwhile borrowers. With a bit of luck, europols and ECB stay out of this, so it becomes entirely a matter of Greece and the market. If they cant convince the market, too bad, they can sell the Parthenon.
The banks who have lent money they shouldn't have will take a hit and need to be recapitalised. This ought to happen at a much lower price than the present share prices, but the end result would be reasoinably solid banks. Incidentally all the bankers options will be worth zero. What a pity.
On the whole, it should consolidate the Eurozone rather than otherwise.
Because then Greece would be unable to print its way out of the monstrous debt accumulated.
A default will most probably bring the wrath of people on the current government and all the political parties.
None will be calm enough to figure out if there are any benefits in remaining in the Eurozone.
But but the Whole World is riding on wishful thinking, Tyler. Isn't it wonderful?
We always knew that some day, some how, we would all be driving that German sedan guided by Chinese GPS equipment while wearing an Italian suit, filled with Saudi oil (cracked in NJ) while listening to a Bollywood rave-mix delivered through Korean electronics. Perhaps a South American substance would be buzzing through our brain.
This was the same dream they had at the height of the British Empire, sipping tea from Ceylon from Chinese porcelain sweetened with sugar from Barbados and lemons from Spain while admiring their Persian rugs and Ming vases
For Greece to (hard) default) without the ability to devalue its currency (leave the Eurozone) would be insanity^3.
The only way to grow their economy is to make agriculture and tourism more competitive via devaluation.
Yes it would hurt in the short term. But they would adjust.
If they stay in the Euro who is going to lend them money?
"...If they stay in the Euro who is going to lend them money?..."
How about the U.S. Fed?
And the American people are allowing this shit to happen. :-(
Exactly, the only thing that Greece has gained during this Troika programm is a protektorat status. On the other hand the EU banks have benefited by allowing them time to off load some of the Greek sovereigns...
I don't think that any different prospect is going to be offered to Greece in return for remaining in the Eurozone.
Market manipulation is the only thing holding up this market. The S&P and the EURUSD are set to drop. EURUSD http://bit.ly/qokwK8 ES http://bit.ly/nVGuGB Crude Oil http://bit.ly/p621GN
>> START Jinn Tracking: Zero Hedge 001
French-owned Fitch let the genie out of the bottle this morning when it announced that it now expects Greece to "probably default" (as in the real deal, not some transitory paper definition), "but not leave the Eurozone."
One genie is //OUT// the bottle.
Released by: Tyler Durden on 09/20/2011 08:40 -0400
Tags: "Zero" "Hedge" "Fitch" "French"
Motive: Good/Bad/Neutral? - y/n/pp
Genie keyword: "DEFAULT"
Genie says: "A real default, not a paper one. Stay in the zone".
End tracking. STOP <<
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