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FoodStamp Nation

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The USDA’s Food and Nutrition Service released a new report on Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, commonly known as Food Stamps) earlier this week with some fresh data on the program. Given our earlier note on Mr.EBT, we thought the following brief clip from Bloomberg TV on the $82bn-per-year program would provide some rather shockingly sad insights and then Nic Colas' recent focus on the SNAP report provides some much more in depth color.  First and foremost, there are 46.5 million Americans in the program as of the most recent information available (January 2012), comprising 22.2 million households.  That’s 15% of the entire population, and just over 20% of all households.  Moreover, despite the end of the official “Great Recession” in June 2009, over 10 million more Americans have been accepted into the program since that month, and the year-over-year growth rate for the program is still +5%.  The USDA’s report is, not surprisingly, very upbeat on the utility of the program.  Fair enough.  But what does it mean when 20% of all households cannot afford to buy the food they need for their families?  To our thinking, it highlights an underappreciated new facet of American economic life – one that will be felt everywhere from the ballot box to the upcoming Federal Deficit debates.


 

 



Food Stamps – The Long Shadow Of The Great Recession

Nic Colas, ConvergEx.

Like most people in finance, I have been trained to think about information that occurs “At the margin.”  Yesterday’s price for a stock plus today’s information yields the closing price at 4pm.  The same holds true for macroeconomic data as it relates to bond prices, levels for commodities, and so forth.  There isn’t time to revisit everything that happened in prior days and weeks and months – we take it for granted that asset prices have that all figured out.  How many times have you heard “Oh, that’s old news; it’s in the stock.”

 

It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye, as the old saying goes, and assuming that the past is the past is fine until it’s not.  There wasn’t much about the Financial Crisis of 2007 that wasn’t knowable in 2006; you just had to have a reasonable imagination and a respect for the irrationality of markets once the system began to break down.  But one lesson of the last five years – and there are many – is that you shouldn’t just assume that “It’s all in the stock.”  Reality checks on anything and everything are worth the time and energy.

 

One topic I personally find worth re-examination is the question, “How has America changed in the past five years that will cast a shadow over the country’s history over the next 50 years?”  Think back to the Great Depression and you’ll find the seeds of programs such as Social Security and even Medicare/Medicaid.  The deprivation of that decade convinced America that it wanted a society that actively tried to make life better for those at the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.  Take care of the old with a stipend from Social Security.  As the generation that lived through the Depression reached older age, they realized that they needed health care as well.  Enter Johnson’s concept of a Great Society and health care for senior citizens and the poor – Medicare and Medicaid.

 

The modern Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), which most of us know as Food Stamps, also got its start in the Great Depression.  It was an effort to link the surplus food of the agricultural system with the poor in the nation’s cities.  Those in tough economic circumstances could buy “Stamps” that would entitle them to buy both regular foodstuffs as well as discounted surplus produce.  The program went dormant during World War II but President Kennedy resurrected it in 1960, altering it from a pay-for-stamps system to a straight entitlement.  With some tweaks and alterations, this is the program we have today – a nationwide system of evaluating those who at risk of food insecurity (typically making less than 130% of the poverty line) and giving them money to purchase food.

 

The trouble, as I see it, is that the SNAP program has become wildly successful.  That is not a slam against the people that use it – I personally agree that no one, especially a child, should go to bed hungry in America.  But it’s not hard to see where this program is creeping its way from counter-cyclical stimulus and support to a lasting entitlement program that will be very hard to change.

 

The USDA division that provides the infrastructure for the SNAP program, which is technically a joint Federal/State effort, put out an interesting report earlier in the week that gave me a chance to think through the program’s goals and consider its role in American society.  A few points from the report as well as the basics on the program here:

  • As of January 2012, the most recent month available, there are 46.5 million Americans in the program.  That equates to 22.2 million households.  To put these numbers in perspective, that is 20% of all households in the country.  If the “Food Stamp Nation” were it state, it would be the largest one in the Union.  If the adults enrolled in the SNAP program (about half the total) all voted for one Presidential candidate in the Fall, they would represent over 2x the margin of victory in the last election.
  • SNAP is not supposed to be the only source of food purchasing power for a household in the program.  The calculations used by the USDA to determine the amount of the benefit assume that SNAP participants will spend 30% of their income on food.  Keep in mind that the food component of the Consumer Price Index is 8%.  The average household in SNAP receives $277/month; the average participant receives $132/month.
  • The typical SNAP participant is a child under the age of 18.  This demographic accounts for 47% of the program.  Households with children account for 71% of all demand for SNAP. Surprisingly, the elderly are only 8% of the program.
  • Households in the SNAP program are overwhelming reliant on other government transfer payments to make ends meet.  Earnings only represent 30% of their income.  The remainder comes from Social Security (21%), Social Security Insurance/Disability (21%), child support payments (10%), and other mostly government payments.
  • It’s hard to know how long the current cohort of participants – those who started receiving benefits in the last 3-4 years – will be in the program.  Those in the program in the early-to-mid 2000s seem to stay enrolled for long periods of time – 7 years on average.  Over half of those who left the program returned within 2 years.
  • Less than half of the SNAP benefit paid monthly goes to buy food.  This is an unexpected finding, but the math behind it shows that when a household starts to receive SNAP, they shift spending patterns.  If the SNAP benefit for a given household is, for example, $100/person then the typical increase in food purchases is $14-47/person/month.

I could go on and on – the link to the full report is included below.  There’s some surprising stuff in there, like the fact that typical Democratic states are much worse at ensuring that their poorer citizens are enrolled in the program than all those supposedly heartless Republican enclaves.  Or that, contrary to what you’ve read in the press, EBT cards (the credit card-like method of payment used by SNAP) can’t be used at ATMs in strip clubs and casinos.  That is another program entirely.

 

But my key takeaways are that a large percentage of the population – 20% of households is a big number – is locked into this program.  There are endless studies in the world of behavioral finance that show that people are very quick to budget increases in disposable income as permanent.  And don’t forget that by the USDA’s own numbers, most of the benefit is effectively NOT being spent on food.  In the narrowest sense, the money spent on the SNAP program is tiny relative to the Federal budget - $6 billion a month, or a drop in the $270 billion/month government spend.

 

But this is where I wonder about the long shadow of the last recession.  Have we reached a point where Americans want a clear and potentially permanent social safety net?  And how far should it go? Again, the current SNAP program is a cheap way to provide this, so from a budgetary or societal standpoint it is hard to argue that it breaks the bank.  But what if it is an emblem of something greater?  In many ways I think this is a big chunk of what the November election will be about, and at least the Food Stamp program seems to show that Americans have made up their minds.

 

 

 

Report: http://www.fns.usda.gov/ORA/menu/Published/SNAP/FILES/Other/BuildingHealthyAmerica.pdf

 

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Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:03 | 2361556 goldencross10
goldencross10's picture

iPads still edible right?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361573 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

They make a good cutting board, for those that still cook real food.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:16 | 2361597 pods
pods's picture

Flip it over and fry your eggs too!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:18 | 2361617 Donnie Duvanie
Donnie Duvanie's picture

As I've said before, If I couldn't get my foodstamps, I don't know what I'd do. How would I get my soda pop and chips? Or ice cream and candy bars? Or my TV dinners (sorry guys) and popcorn? Or my New York Strip for the weekend Bar-B-Que? Life would be very hard. Yes, very hard indeed. 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:34 | 2361675 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

Why not take a government job?

 

Getting Paid 93 Cents a Day in America? Corporations Bring Back the 19th Century Nearly a million prisoners are working in call centers, working in slaughterhouses, or manufacturing textiles while getting paid somewhere between 93 cents and $4.73.

April 19, 2012 

Sweatshop labor is back with a vengeance. It can be found across broad stretches of the American economy and around the world.  Penitentiaries have become a niche market for such work.  The privatization of prisons in recent years has meant the creation of a small army of workers too coerced and right-less to complain.

Prisoners, whose ranks increasingly consist of those for whom the legitimate economy has found no use, now make up a virtual brigade within the reserve army of the unemployed whose ranks have ballooned along with the U.S. incarceration rate.  The Corrections Corporation of America and G4S (formerly Wackenhut), two prison privatizers, sell inmate labor at subminimum wages to Fortune 500 corporations like Chevron, Bank of America, AT&T, and IBM.

These companies can, in most states, lease factories in prisons or prisoners to work on the outside.  All told, nearly a million prisoners are now making office furniture, working in call centers, fabricating body armor, taking hotel reservations, working in slaughterhouses, or manufacturing textiles, shoes, and clothing, while getting paid somewhere between 93 cents and $4.73 per day. 

Rarely can you find workers so pliable, easy to control, stripped of political rights, and subject to martial discipline at the first sign of recalcitrance -- unless, that is, you traveled back to the nineteenth century when convict labor was commonplace nationwide.  Indeed, a sentence of “confinement at hard labor” was then the essence of the American penal system.  More than that, it was one vital way the United States became a modern industrial capitalist economy -- at a moment, eerily like our own, when the mechanisms of capital accumulation were in crisis.

 

cont.----->http://www.alternet.org/rights/155061/getting_paid_93_cents_a_day_in_ame...

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:39 | 2361688 ratso
ratso's picture

These 46.5 million are some of the poor in America that Romney is not concerned about.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:53 | 2361761 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The 46.5 million will starve because if inflation you fucking idiot.  Like Romney had anything to do with it you stupid fucking moron.  Get the fuck out of here.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:11 | 2361836 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

for ALL! of you that have been successfully programmed to believe the POOR! of America are to Blame!

for ALL! of you ignoring the Fact that Wall Street has been GIVEN! At LEAST 4 Times MORE! Money that ALL! of the military in the United States!! (that was waging 2 wars and multiple little fronts).

For ALL! of you that believe starving the most well armed populace in the World improves your quality of life and survivability!

This movie for you Dumb Fuck(s)! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMkrJOOTjj4&feature=related

 

The Poor! are NOT FUCKING YOU!!

You being Ignorant! and staying Ignorant!! is what is FUCKING THE COUNTRY!!

YOU! wanna be thinkers who refuse to the numerical facts and follow your feelings!

YOU!! are to Blame! EVEN MORE SO THAN THE POOR!! who produce NOTHING!!

Because Your! CONTINUING IGNORANCE!! Enables! the Government to FUCK EVERYONE OVER!!

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:29 | 2361923 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Interesting!!! Punctuation! Shithead

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:28 | 2362114 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

America: The first, third world, first world country!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:14 | 2362249 johnu1978
johnu1978's picture

I've been saying for over a year that the real number of people on foodstamps is over 80,000,000. The government has been saying it's in the 40 million bracket for over three years now.

What other wonderful lies do they have to tell us?

If people want true food independence they'll either grow their own, or they'll learn about wild edible plants.

 

-John
Edible Plant Tours
http://www.heartrootnatureconnection.com

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:59 | 2362372 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Really?

Poverty is perpetually defined in the US as the bottom 1/6th or 16%-it is just so shocking that about that many receive food stamps,

despite many being obese.

Material poverty is just about dead in the US despite the idiotic notions to the contrary,

unfortunately it has been replaced by poverty of the human spirit which is generally what accompanies government dependence.

 

America the only nation in the history of planet earth to consider obese people who own homes, cars and more "poverty stricken."

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:28 | 2362451 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Poverty stricken fat bastrds are an obamination.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:40 | 2362485 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Unfortunately too many people game the system and receive food stamps that shouldn't.  We all know about the lottery winner still collecting.  It's largely unchecked because there's a benefit to those promoting a large welfare state.  When we go broke, it's back to the cheese and bologna blocks at the pickup center. 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:47 | 2362138 economics9698
economics9698's picture

 

Ratso, Is anyone blaming the poor?  I am stating a fact.  The dirty deed is done, the inflation is coming, and the poor will starve to death.  Mitt Romney was a banker; he had nothing to do with the Federal Reserve, to the best of my knowledge.  If you political hack morons want to blame someone here is a list;

1.  George Bush I & II

2.  Alan Greenspan

3.  Ben Bernanke

4.  Bill Clinton

5.  Harry Reid

6.  Nancy Pelosi

7.  Henry Paulson

8.  Dennis Hastert

9.  Barack Obama

10.  Timothy Geithner

These people are guilty and these people should be blamed for the millions who will starve fucking political asshole.  If you want to help the poor support a end to the minimum wage, SS and Medicare.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:52 | 2362171 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

OT:

For those seeking to sharpen their critical thinking skills and ability to separate propaganda from facts I offer the following website:

https://www.tragedyandhope.com

Have not read/watched all of the content but from what I can gather the future of non-statist (critical thinking enabled) education may begin from a place like this.  Apolitical best I can tell.  Good stuff there fo sho.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 18:21 | 2362598 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"Have not read/watched all of the content but from what I can gather the future of non-statist (critical thinking enabled) education may begin from a place like this. Apolitical best I can tell."

 

Apolitical? Non-statist?  Not.  It's definitely from the left.  It took 2 seconds to read about the author Carroll Quigley who is known for being a liberal inperialist and defender of bankers.  Another Harvard professor.  Do some research before you drink any kool-aid mate.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:27 | 2362708 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

The following advocates learning how to think not what to think.  It seems you already know what to think so I guess the message is lost on you.  Sorry about your luck.

https://www.tragedyandhope.com/trivium/5-page-summary/

I could really care less about the founders political leanings.  When you know how to think for yourself that sort of thing becomes more or less irrelevant.  Stick to the echo chamber jack ass it is much easier for you small minded types not having to actually think for yourself.  You want to see why we have the problems we do?  Take a look in the mirror asshole.

On another note, more good stuff about the financial crisis right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fx2ClTpnAAs&nored...

I don't give a shit what Burry's political leanings might be either BTW.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:53 | 2362759 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Schools have slowly stopped teaching people how to think critically, logically or analytically for decades.  That's one reason you don't know enough to judge things from where they come.  You were purposefully schooled to be a mush brain who follows anything that sounds good.  It's not your fault, you're a victim.  It's just that now you've become an angry little pecker head who thinks he can save the World but can't even control his own emotions, never mind taking control over his own life.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 20:11 | 2362788 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

It seems I have struck a nerve.  So tell us big guy, what is it in that Trivium document that is promoting a statist liberal (etc.) agenda? Seems to me they are challenging the status quo educational model.  What gives?

And your delusions about my life are intriguing.  Tell us more oh enlightened one....

(I have no affiliation with them, have no idea who they are.  Simply enjoyed some of the work enough to think it merited a link,)

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:07 | 2362231 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You're jumping the gun by at least a decade.  "The poor" won't be starving to death.

What'll happen is the "affluent" and the rich will see increased losses to theft, violence, etc, in addition to their losses to inflation, until either the system falls apart completely OR they acknowledge that some changes have to be made in how society is structured. 

Then a real discussion may begin about the intersection between economics and politics.  Apparently the discussion cannot start until the "political" classes start feeling real pain.  Right now they can convince themselves everythings A-OK.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:05 | 2362382 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Just like the explosion in gun sales has led to an increase in violent crime,

oh wait just the opposite has happened despite an economic depression-OH NO time to revise those grand delusions again.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:30 | 2362460 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Where'd you get the idea increased gun sales would lead to an increase in violent crime?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 18:01 | 2362543 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I got it from that place where they are making real changes to society.

Afterall every empire has ended in rioting and violence,

but if the US just makes changes  this time will be different.

I am not sure which is worse, ignoring how folks die coming to the US for opportunity, barely speaking the language, with crap educations knowing hardly anyone and somehow become productive legal tax paying citizens all the while the domestic poor can't get of their own way-blaming the wealthy for this phenomena,

 

or actually believing if societal changes were made  this time could be different.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:31 | 2362727 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Yeah, I love America too, brah.  Rock on.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:31 | 2362722 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Probably from MSM quoting another University "study".  Same place we all get of our BS ideas.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:26 | 2362450 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Actually you should be blamed.

The completely, unaccountable social scientist who has practiced these social science experiments on the human race to epic fail worldwide proportions.

Guess what? After endless resources-pay people to not work, they are not going to work.

Pay people per child they will have more children.

Turn the justice system into a revolving door, no shit crime rates will go up.

Water down the education system to nothingness, no shit their furture prosperity levels will fall.

Create epidemic single parent households, no shit the schools will turn into quasi detention centers.

People should be thrown in jail for perpetrating these experiments on mankind.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:44 | 2361973 nc551
nc551's picture

This is rediculous.  I can buy a one year supply of actually healthy food (grains & legumes) raw for around $600.  2,200 calories,  80 grams of protien per day.  This program is supposed to be supplemental yet they are spending 80 billion a year to 'supplement' 45 million people who are still going to spend 30% of their income on food.  If they actually just bought the food in the first place ( lets say a pessimistic economy of scale of $500/year/person) they'd be able to feed 160 million people with actually healthy food every year for the same money they are spending now just to 'supplement' 45 million.  Doesn't make sense? Follow the money.  There is a reason foodstamps are accepted at KFC, McDonalds, Taco Bell, etc.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:12 | 2362056 ljag
ljag's picture

If u get a chance to watch something on Netflix, try a documentary called "Forks over Knives"........it will open your eyes even a little wider!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:11 | 2362247 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    If they actually just bought the food in the first place ( lets say a pessimistic economy of scale of $500/year/person) they'd be able to feed 160 million people with actually healthy food every year for the same money they are spending now just to 'supplement' 45 million.

This is true, but the problem is that everyone would just start fighting over who would get to sell all those grains and beans to the government.  People in the bean business might be pleased, but it'd be about a day and a half before there were another 5000 lobbyists for pork, beef, or whatever demanding that their employers be "given the right" to sell their food to the Feds to give away to the poor.

Government writes checks not because it's a good way to do things, but because it's what the constituents DEMAND.  "Constituents" should be understood to mean "campaign contributors," not voters.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 22:08 | 2362980 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Really? And do you actually do this?

 

$80 billion is less than we give to one bank.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:36 | 2362136 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

JW n FL

Dude, they don't hate the poor. They hate their own weakness.

They hate their inability to capitalize on a system that rich and poor alike game daily.

Look at this article, all about food stamps. Yet corporate welfare eats more from your taxes than food stamps.

Then again most are faggy little whiners who threaten in anonymity because they could never screw up the courage to do it in public.

They are the herd.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:47 | 2362165 economics9698
economics9698's picture

If you want to help the poor support a end to the minimum wage, SS and Medicare.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:41 | 2362327 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I want to help everyone.

Ending Lobby Monies is a Non-Violent Start.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:02 | 2362681 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I want to help everyone."  that's funny.  Good answer, you get a trophy. 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:20 | 2362433 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Instantly demand a refund on that cracker jack two cent analysis.

Excellent projection.

2/3rds of the federal budget is social welfare of one form or another, 1/3rd military.

You are the alpha sheep. Bitch and moan up a storm about anonymous faceless entities all the while existing like royalty.

Down with corporate welfare, tax them 5times on the same earnings  instead of twice and call minor reductions of that welfare as if it is somehow analagous

when the food stamp crowd starts employing millions of people and paying an iota of tax beyond excise taxes

your alpha sheep analysis still wouldn't hold.

But then again most are faggy little whiners who live better than their grandparents could have dreamed of but are genetically programmed to wake up in the morning as the perpetual victim of these nameless faceless entities.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:36 | 2362139 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

the poor are the new fra gra; we stuff'em with hydrogenated oils, and chems, then suck da wealth dry through medical bills ans fore closures.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 23:29 | 2363118 StychoKiller
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:31 | 2361933 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2012-04-18/news/mitt-romney-american-parasite/

read and learn, douchetard

Your homework assignment, assuming you CAN actually read, is to study up on the destruction of the tax base and jobs base, and increase in the national debt, thanks to private equity leveraged buyouts, rampant hedge fund speculation, and this,

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:41 | 2362147 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

a pissed off hippie in seattle; almost as good as san fran. truth is, everybody is trying to fuck everybody else. and, if you're middle class; you getting fucked from both ends; but if your poor, you just suck a little cock once in awhile. The rich get to do what they want; piss on the poor, fuck some middle class, or play amongst themselves.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:15 | 2362059 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Right on, 9698. Food stamps to the moon and back. I see well dressed folks laying'em down and driving off with their groceries n their Mercedes! About a third are fraudulent. Feds have zero oversight of this lil' piggy. Go get yours!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:39 | 2362321 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Hero of the day for that quote

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:17 | 2361868 BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=ratso

 

Every fucking post of yours trys to fling shit at republicans, as if anyone on this blog believed in your false left right paradigm bullshit.  Red vs Blue may keep the rest of america placated, but sorry, you're dealing with a completely different beast here.  That shit you spew may work on yahoo, MSNBC, FOX, Etc. but you're wasting who ever is paying you's time with it here

 

Go die a slow death you fuck

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:29 | 2361932 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Planet Kolob will save us!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCPc-zg0R7A

just like Obama did!

YAY!!

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:39 | 2362143 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Ok, so both Uncle Milty and Burka-man both are 'christians'.  Neither seem to represent Christ.  I don't know if Mr.Paul is a real Christian or not, but he seems to tell the truth.  I think he is probably starting to recognize his eventual demise into the dustbin of history, and often times old men will care less and less what other people think about them.  It is a wonderful thing to know the truth.  If your point is to expose Uncle Milty as a hypocritical fake or just a complete wackoid, you have no argument with me.  I will prob vote for the old man(like voting matters), but I would support him even more if he told the GOP to FSO and go it alone. 

I got into an argument with a 70 year old black woman at Wal-mart yesterday.  After she accepted a couple bucks to pay what she was short, she called me a nice man just like Obama.  That went pretty well from there/sarc.  This is the public that will re-elect either the MOOslim(credit TOYTV* Freddie) or the rubber underwear guy.  Hell-yeah!!!

All I really know is that when death gets close up, the truth either shows or goes.  Maybe that's why there seems to be so many old people going crazy. 

*turn off your tele-vision

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:42 | 2362335 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Planet Kolob does NOT! eqaul Christian!

O'Bummer in the Pro-Black Panther Church does NOT! equal Christian!

so, what have we learned today..

there will be a test later!

when the hungry people start shooting! LOL!!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:05 | 2362387 AcidRastaHead
AcidRastaHead's picture

He's not worried because he'll 'fix it".  He'll just tinkle ... er ... I mean trickle on them.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:52 | 2361755 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Welcome to what Max Keiser astutely calls the Casino-Gulag economy.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:43 | 2362324 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Keiser seems more socialist than anything.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:04 | 2362384 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yeah, he's a real commie isn't he? LOL.

Get.The.Fuck.Out

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:50 | 2362514 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Another internet tough guy.  It is my opinion based on  listening to him for a few years. Time will tell if he is communist.

The get the fuck out was uncalled for. Unless you have the IQ of a turd which seems to fit.

Peace !.. Enjoy the weekend.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 20:18 | 2362804 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

i'm proud to be a 'turd'....

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:28 | 2362455 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Gee, what gave him away ... airing on RT?

BTW, there are times when RT seems to be more sympathetic to the cause of Capitalism than any of the major media in the land that prides itself on its entrepreneurial spirit.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:27 | 2361914 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Except for the non-violent drug offenders and the few people who got a raw deal, I'd say most of the prison workforce is making exactly what they're worth.  It's not like we Shanghai people off of the street for no reason--those people committed crimes and most of those people are repeat offenders with violent histories.  Also, the state (taxpayer) is housing, feeding, clothing, and educating them.  Prisons do try to rehabilitate people to some degree.  I still think people should be paid what they are worth, but I'm not sure what that rate is.

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 10:59 | 2363569 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Everything you say was once used to justify the Soviet Gulag ...

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 15:27 | 2363896 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

People should be paid what the job is worth. What they are worth has nothing to do with it.

In my time I have worked for 90 cents an hour to $600 an hour. What am I worth? What was the job worth?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:29 | 2361925 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

If the only value you can offer society (and thus an economy) is the fact that you have two arms and opposable thumbs, then .93 cents sounds about right.  

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:34 | 2361679 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Possible new hit serial this summer?...............

SNAP, Cracker,  Pop!

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:40 | 2361692 Greater Fool
Greater Fool's picture

I like to listen to my neighbor, who's on food stamps, watching the latest programs on HBO. That's because my family, who paid more in taxes last year than they probably made, doesn't have HBO; it would be nice to have, but we can't justify the expense.

But, you know, whatever. Maybe I can get a friend of mine who works for the SEC and makes a good deal more than I do to recommend me for a position over there.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:03 | 2361794 XitSam
XitSam's picture

There is a difference between qualifying for food stamps and needing food stamps which often gets ignored.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:07 | 2362020 easypoints
easypoints's picture

Ding ding ding!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:15 | 2361860 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Be careful what you request of SEC folks regarding "positions."  Never know what kind of links they'll send you.  ;)

BTW, when the SHTF, you're going to be far better off than yer SNAPpy neighbor.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:27 | 2362115 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Greater Fool

"I like to listen to my neighbor, who's on food stamps, watching the latest programs on HBO."

How's that work, you stand outside his open window peeping?

 

"That's because my family, who paid more in taxes last year than they probably made, doesn't have HBO; it would be nice to have, but we can't justify the expense."

I'm confused, your neighbor watches HBO, and you are jealous because you can't afford it?

But what really bothers me is you make it sound like you are the only successful family in the ghetto?

Maybe you should move somewhere that you can't listen on what your neghbor views?

Somewhere you can afford to live so you have enogh spare cash to watch HBO.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:32 | 2362466 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

UH Oh Spaghetti O's,

wtfu, he hit it on the head,

nobody gives a shit except for you zerobrains idiots who gets over on what until it effects them,

if the welfare crowd wasn't a potential HBO customer would HBO's rate be higher or lower?

let me help,

goto the nearest casino the first weekend of any month and go the last weekend of any month,

first weekend get to pay $20 a hand to play BJ,

last weekend same identical product only costs $5.

Now go project up another storm.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 21:47 | 2362936 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

What a fucking moron. Are you actually so colossally brain dead that you cant understand someone being resentful that a neighbor who sucks off of the government can then afford extras that they themselves dont have? Ever live in an apartment or small townhouse? Its quite easy to know what your neighbor is watching if they have the volume up.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:30 | 2362119 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Donnie Duvanie

DING< DING< DING! People on food stamps and fat white women at Walmart, only ones safe to HATE in this glorious new century.


Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:49 | 2362345 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Gully that don’t want the truth about themselves that way..

You can Judge a Person by how they treat the weak.

in the upcoming fray.. of the social fabric.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:35 | 2362470 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Really?

The truth about themselves?

This from the guy who overhears something in an alley and considers it gospel.

Truth and you don't belong in the same universe.

The truth is the fake demand caused by welfare drives up the prices of everything,

to the rich man's benefit to the working man's detriment.

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 23:42 | 2363136 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, alleviate some suffering:  http://www.worldvision.org (arguably, the most efficient charity in the World)

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:32 | 2361669 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Two words:

Bread

Circuses

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:55 | 2361764 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

I want some real shit on TV; like gladiators fuck'n and killing; not plastics crap; but real blood.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:07 | 2361825 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

piss on TV, when these cards quit working, you can walk outside and watch it live.

Maybe even participate!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:30 | 2362121 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

LFMayor

You can now.

MMA, or an underground fight club.

Most people are pussies.

Fuck even fake superheroes roam the streets kicking ass and getting theirs kicked.


Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:50 | 2362350 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Gully the same guy with 10 or 20 names keeps down arrowing you..

that is his day.

try not to get any of it on you..

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:28 | 2361656 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Hey Ty the reason we are out of the recession of 2008 is precisely because there are more foodstamp recipients! Come on get with the program!

 

/sarc off

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:02 | 2361799 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Nancy? Is that you?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:13 | 2361585 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I'll be eating my asus eee tablet in favor of my silver (which as many have said is not edible)

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:19 | 2361610 tempo
tempo's picture

To each according the their ability, to each according to their need...Definition of "fairness" per Marx and Progressives. The cost of short term gain from Govt dependence is the long term pain of hopeless and poverty.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:13 | 2361861 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

About time to bring Titus of Gaul out of retirement......

Always leave 'em laughing.........

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 11:17 | 2363590 chemystical
chemystical's picture

not nearly as edible as that bloomberg presenter's panties.  seriously, how cold was it in the studio, and does she always make such emphatic, um, "points"?

back to your regularly-scheduled programme.

 

Chem,

(seduced by the circus long enough to have missed something quite important no doubt)

 

 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:05 | 2361563 Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

Business In Sider and cnbc wont allow me to post on their sites...LOL!

I guess they dont like my point of view.

They are truly a couple of whores

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361574 brewing
brewing's picture

welcome...

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:13 | 2361587 ekm
ekm's picture

I don't bother at all with anybody with Instant Moderation. What's the point?

Bloomberg, CNBC, barry ritholtz blog,.....a big mountain of elephant manure.

They have an agenda and any differing opinions are not allowed.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:14 | 2361594 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

That's because Blodget's business plan is to do a HuffPo and sell out.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:13 | 2361595 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Try using a different id and a program like Tor to mask your IP address.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:27 | 2361653 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That was a good tip. Thanks.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:17 | 2361602 pods
pods's picture

Blessing in disguise.  Just think how much smarter you will be?

Dumb is contagious.

pods

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361564 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Just love charts with "projected" sections.  FAIL.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:11 | 2361580 i-dog
i-dog's picture

??? The chart ends at November last year!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:11 | 2361584 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

not the one in the video, try and keep up i-dog.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:20 | 2361601 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Awww ... do I have to watch a video too?!

Well done, BTW ... reading the text, watching a video and posting a reply, all in less than 4 minutes!

Now I'll go watch the video....

[edit] Which video?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:22 | 2361624 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The fairly "atractive" one.  FYI, want to make the SNAP program less expensive?  Fire all the administrators.  The administrative costs alone are almost 50% of the cost.  In fact, I think we should fire the "leadership" across the board.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:28 | 2361662 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Hmmm...I see no video. Apparently I need to check my brower settings. :-/

Agree with you on the "leadership".

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:30 | 2361666 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Are 50% of the administrators salaries paid in SNAP ? /sarc

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361565 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Free food? Better than a McDouble..

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361567 ekm
ekm's picture

This is how uprisings start - FOOD.

Hungry = Nothing to Lose

Examples:

- China 1989 (Tien An Men)

- Egypt 2011

- Tunisia 2011

- Lybia 2011

- All Eastern Europe 1990

 

North Korea is the notable exception. And of course, I am in no way insinuating that USA population is becoming like North Korea. Do you guys have a Dear Leader?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:28 | 2361663 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Our dear leader, Mittens (I was hoping for attack muffin aka Gingrich)

 

/sarc

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:34 | 2361673 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Why yes ...yes we do have a dear leader,and he is elevated above all. 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:08 | 2361823 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I notice you left out the Ukrainian starvation of farmers 1932-33 as a policy tool of Stalin. http://www.ukrainiangenocide.com/dsovietpolicyandukrainiangenocide.html

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:15 | 2362064 ekm
ekm's picture

Point taken.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:20 | 2362273 johnu1978
johnu1978's picture

8,000,000 dead which we never hear of here in America.

 

-John
Edible Plant Tours
http://www.heartrootnatureconnection.com

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 17:44 | 2362496 Iconoclast
Iconoclast's picture

Love the spelling of Libya there man...

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:08 | 2361570 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

April 19, 2012, 1:58 PM
Food Stamp Rolls to Grow Through 2014, CBO Says

By Damian Paletta

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/04/19/food-stamp-rolls-to-grow-throu...

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:40 | 2361702 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

But, but, but, CNBC's graph shows a steady decline in partiicpation starting tomorrow.  We should call Art Laffer and see how he stinks....I mean, what he thinks

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:07 | 2361572 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

And the correlation between food stamps, Obama votes, obesity, and ethnic chicks with big fat asses, is now 100%!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:34 | 2362130 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

One therefore asks why food stamps do not have restrictions on the type of items that can be bought? Or is it left this way to keep this large section of the electorate happy and the McDonalds type corporates in business?

Could it be that the program also has loopholes that enable unworthy recipients to access it?

It appears that it has grown so much and has become so popular that it would be electorally too dangerous to tamper with.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 18:24 | 2362610 itstippy
itstippy's picture

There are lots of restrictions.  No hot food, for starters.  No restaraunt food of any kind.  Certainly no McDonalds, KFC, or Taco Bell.

The "SNAP Cards For Fast Food" rumor is an urban legend that hit the internet and just won't die.  Candy & soda are OK though (weird they're considered "Supplemental Nutrition").

Here's the USDA eligible items for SNAP cards list: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/retailers/eligible.htm

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:09 | 2361575 alien_scones
alien_scones's picture

Why not provide public records on who receives this and other types of assistance?   The public info would tell me if my neighbor needs help, or is gaming the system.

 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:18 | 2361613 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Haha! I was thinking the same!
In general american don't do this, but some americans used to be greeks :)

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:36 | 2361682 Flocking swans
Flocking swans's picture

So, if big gov. posted records you would be a brownshirt for big gov?

What a swell fantasy you have.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:49 | 2362167 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Okay so are you pro big brother or not? How about if we have public records on whether or not you have guns in your house so the crooks know who to rob?

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:03 | 2362216 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I agree as long as we were honest enough to put banks at the top of the list.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 22:13 | 2362993 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

How would you determine this without their income and asset information?

You want everyone to post that for you to peruse as well?

And then what are you going to do once you determine someone is getting welfare they don't need?

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:10 | 2361583 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Just wondering how the chart of rising obesity in America would compare to that posted above? Is there a direct correlation?

Also have to wonder what % of SNAP beneficiaries are gaming the system?

I agree with the author that those really in need should be helped, but like all government programs I have ever seen for the $1 spent, about a nickel makes it through to the real target.

 

 

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:26 | 2361642 libertus
libertus's picture

The obseity rate is increasing because of corn syrup and the corporations making money off of cheap non-nutritious calories. If people had access to nuturient rich food we would not have the problems we do. Buy organic! Down with GMO Monsanto! Their shit is killing you--guaranteed!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:25 | 2362098 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Monsanto is the food savior of the world! High F corn syrup is foundation of emerging markets with Marlborough cigs, #1 global brand. MCD and YUM bringing healthy weight-on to skinny aisians.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 18:35 | 2362627 itstippy
itstippy's picture

MCD and YUM try to help, by adding lots of sodium to their food.  If you're going to eat greasy, fatty food you must salt the Hell out of it.  The salt boosts your blood pressure and keeps the cholesterol from sticking to the walls of your arteries.

Also, anyone who doesn't get at least one hour of aerobic exercise a day should smoke Marlboros.  Your lungs need a daily workout.  If you don't work them hard via exercise you need to do it by smoking.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:25 | 2362282 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The "rising obesity in America" is mostly a result of changing the definition of "obese."

American "obesity" would drop about 25% if we went back to the definition used in '95.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:13 | 2361586 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Free meals on election day.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:33 | 2361670 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Along with free cigs, booze, and hoes!

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:45 | 2362157 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Are the hoes clean or skanky? If they are clean I just might vote this year. Well they can have a little bit of skank.

Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:12 | 2361588 manhunter
manhunter's picture

The average household in SNAP receives $277/month; the average participant receives $132/month.

  • The typical SNAP participant is a child under the age of 18.
  • This program does actual good, unlike bank bailouts. Not a lot of help on an individual basis but something is better than nothing. The fact that we have such a need is tragic and blame should be put on the elite, not on children on the edge of hunger.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:19 | 2361615 pods
    pods's picture

    Wonder what the skim is for the purveyor of this wonderful program?

    You do know who that is don't you?

    pods

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:35 | 2361680 catacl1sm
    catacl1sm's picture

    Doesn't JPM run SNAP for the govvie?

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:46 | 2361724 Dr. Richard Head
    Dr. Richard Head's picture

    Winner, winner Chicken Dinner!!!!!  More people on food stamps means more profits for Fuckhead Dimon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrsqQShuH0

    When ABC News asked JP Morgan about this, the company would not tell ABC News which states have customer service calls sent to India and which states have them handled inside the United States....

    JP Morgan is the only one today still operating public-assistance call centers overseas. The company refused to say which states had calls routed to India and which ones had calls stay domestically. That decision, the company said, was often left up to the individual states.

    JP Morgan has been moving some of these call center jobs back inside the United States due to political pressure, but this whole situation is a really good example of what the "global economy" is doing to middle class Americans.

    Just try to imagine the irony – a formerly middle class American that has lost a job to outsourcing calls up to get help with food stamp benefits only to be answered by a call center employee in India.

    Welcome to the global economy, eh?

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep2/more-americans-on-food-stamps.html

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:41 | 2361846 The Alarmist
    The Alarmist's picture

    Political pressure my ass ... wages for skilled and proficient English speakers in India have risen to the point where it is actually cheaper to place your call center in Nebraska.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:14 | 2361857 Seamus45
    Seamus45's picture

    Yes.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:52 | 2361751 Nobody For President
    Nobody For President's picture

    Wild Guess - EBT Cards = JP Morgan.

    Our old friend Jamie D, helpin' out the poor.

    I'm so god-damned touched I wanna puke...

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:26 | 2361639 LFMayor
    LFMayor's picture

    well, if it's "for the children" that makes it okay.   

    If I had a hungry son under age 18, he'd look just like Trayvon

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:10 | 2361832 The Alarmist
    The Alarmist's picture

    "The average household in SNAP receives $277/month; the average participant receives $132/month."

    It would be interesting to see a fuller set of descriptive statics to get a better feel for the dispersion ... Median, Max, Skew & Kurtosis ... I'll assume minimum is zero to make it easy for you.

    If you look past the fact that a lot of the rapid growth of the food-stamp rolls is the product of a self-interested bureaucracy advertising to and seeking out more "clients" and if you look past the fact that they are turning millions of people and their future offspring into dependents and wards of the state who will rarely contribute to their own upkeep, I guess you can say that this program is doing Goldman-Sachs ... er, I meant to say God's work.


    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:14 | 2361591 moskov
    moskov's picture

    IF the US can afford Food Stamps for everyone.

    They sure can afford Ipad Stamps.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:17 | 2361599 Donnie Duvanie
    Donnie Duvanie's picture

    I am simply amazed when I consider how easy it is to get free food.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:15 | 2361859 The Alarmist
    The Alarmist's picture

    And free medical care ... without insurance even!

    Seriously, there are clinics all over the country that give away medical care and even meds if you are truly needy.  Might not be the same quality of care that someone like Romney or Obama gets, but the price is right.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:17 | 2361605 insanelysane
    insanelysane's picture

    The problem with all this public assistance (unemployment, welfare, food stamps) is that the country does not get enough benefit from it.  Workers earning a salary provide labor that does something to earn their wages which is then spent in the economy.  Public assistance "workers" only get wages which are spent on the economy but the country should be able to derive some benefit (besides quelling rebellion and crime) from the cost of public assistance.  We need to demand labor in exchange for assistance or get rid of paying the assistance.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:16 | 2361865 The Alarmist
    The Alarmist's picture

    Life was so much easier when you could actually let people lie starving to death in the gutter.

    /sarc>

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 19:11 | 2362691 nasa
    nasa's picture

    Lower crime rates is a benefit.   Hungry people won't think twice about killing you, fat people not so much.  

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:17 | 2361608 JustObserving
    JustObserving's picture

    Cost of wars since 2001  $1324 billion

    Cost of war in Iraq  $802.9 billion

    Cost of war in Afghanistan $521.2 billion

    Cost of food stamps to feed 46.5 million Americans  $82 billion a year

    I think we are better off curtailing  our endless wars for endless peace - how long can we afford $400 a gallon gas in Afghanistan?

    "The Pentagon pays an average of $400 to put a gallon of fuel into a combat vehicle or aircraft in Afghanistan."

    http://costofwar.com/en/

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/63407-400gallon-gas-another-c...

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:27 | 2361649 manhunter
    manhunter's picture

    Screw the defense budget. Buy food not missiles.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:48 | 2361739 Dr. Richard Head
    Dr. Richard Head's picture

    Bill Hicks on how war technology could solve global poverty - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMDMWzhO9k

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:33 | 2361671 Monedas
    Monedas's picture

    82 billion x 11 = ?    Food stamps are peanuts !  The total welfare, entitlement package dwarfs military spending !  Monedas  1929   Comedy Jihad Drug Stamps 

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:18 | 2361687 Dr. Engali
    Dr. Engali's picture

    But  we must have those wars to protect us from the scary brown people. And we can't give in or the terrorist win and we give up all this freedom we have. So please continue to shop, play the xbox ,and never mind those 450 million rounds of bullets that homeland security bought for "target practice".

     

    Oh by the way you're the target. 

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:37 | 2361689 Chump
    Chump's picture

    Why did you make the wars a lump sum but call out the cost of food stamps for one year?  Compare apples to apples.  I'd bet that for what we paid for food stamps over 11 years we could've been bringing democracy and freedom to a whole other group of brown people!

    Lets cut the wars and the food stamps.  But first lets hang some banksters and political weasels.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:48 | 2361725 JustObserving
    JustObserving's picture

    The numbers I provided were actual appropriations ($802.9 billion for Iraq war) .  The actual cost of the Iraq war is much higher if you add all in the costs including future costs.

     

    Stiglitz estimated the true cost of the Iraq war was about $3 trillion when you take into account future liabilities of taking care of all the injured veterans.

    "The Three Trillion Dollar War is a 2008 book by Nobel Prize laureate Joseph Stiglitz and Harvard professor Linda Bilmes, both of whom are American economists."

    "The total cost of $3 trillion is consistent with numerous government studies. These include the Joint Economic Committee of Congress, which estimated that the war will cost $3.5 trillion,[2] and the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, which has projected that the total cost will reach between $1.4 and $2.2 trillion.[3] The Stiglitz-Bilmes work builds on an earlier study by Yaleeconomist William Nordhaus, who predicted in 2002 that the war could reach $2 trillion if it went badly.[4"

     

    The interest on $3 trillion can pay for food stamps for many decades to come

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Trillion_Dollar_War

     

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 13:59 | 2361784 Chump
    Chump's picture

    Oh I see, you were arguing from ideology and not actual math.  You simply prefer to deficit spend on what you like.  And in making your point, you compare the total cost of two wars to one year of an annual entitlement.  That is the textbook definition of disingenuous.

    The interest on $3 trillion can pay for food stamps for many decades to come

    Let's see your math because you're definitely smoking something.  The last yield on a 30-year is 3.13%, so by my cipherin', it turns out we can pay for approximately 1 year of food stamps with the interest on $3 trillion.  But that's meaningless anyway; both expenditures are paid for via deficit spending.  You're worse than leftists who act like cutting taxes is "spending" and right wingers who rail against entitlements but love military adventurism.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:10 | 2361827 JustObserving
    JustObserving's picture

    "The last yield on a 30-year is 3.13%, so by my cipherin', it turns out we can pay for approximately 1 year of food stamps with the interest on $3 trillion."

    I suppose you think that you get interest for only one year on $3 trillion? You may be surprised to know that you get interest every year. So in truth (if Stiglitz is correct) the Iraq war will cost more than food stamps for decades to come.

    I take no ideological stand - just the numbers backed up be references.  I never impose my ideology on anyone assuming I have one. You are free to believe what you like.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:22 | 2361894 riphowardkatz
    riphowardkatz's picture

    and it all assumes that food stamps are not enabling and making the problem worse. 

    Ever heard of a parent that had to cut their adult child off because the person was milking them? ever heard of tough love?

    No one in the country wants people to starve. People in this country won't let people starve it just hasnt and will not happen as long as there is wealth. This program run through the federal government is  so wrong. It should be done locally by charities to ensure that we are helping someone in a true emergency and NOT enabling people. 

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:25 | 2361901 Chump
    Chump's picture

    No, I assume that since both are expenditures and are "paid for" via deficit spending we don't actually earn interest on them in way shape or form.  It's like claiming windfall revenues on your balance sheet for "not invading Mars" and then...what?....investing those "revenues" in 30-year bonds to pay for some other entitlement program?  Sounds like logic, Krugman-style.

    I claim you're arguing from an ideological stance because your initial comment compared the total cost of the wars to one year of food stamp expenses, an annual entitlement.  You should know better.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 14:21 | 2361816 Dr. Engali
    Dr. Engali's picture

     

     Nobel Prize laureate......they will pass those things out to just about anybody......War monger-in-chief Obummer, clueless economist Krugman, Global warming profiteer Gore. The Nobel prize has about as much meaning as a federal reserve note.

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 15:37 | 2362141 hellas4life
    hellas4life's picture

    probably higher than 3 trillion

     

    4-6 trillion

    http://articles.marketwatch.com/2011-12-15/general/30778140_1_iraq-war-i...

    Fri, 04/20/2012 - 16:40 | 2362325 Eurogroup
    Eurogroup's picture

    Or maybe bomb the Cayman Islands instead?

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