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Fortress Commodities Fund "We're Long Gold, Short Base Metals, And A Seller Of Crude"

Tyler Durden's picture


While one of the bigger commodity funds out there, in this case Fortress Commodities Fund, has not done too hot recently (down 7.4% in October), which it humbly admits to and says, "the month of October was a wakeup call for us and we are adjusting accordingly" here are some must read perspectives that lead the Fortress Commodity group to conclude that "We're Long Gold, Short Base Metals, Patient Crude Strength Seller & Buyer Of Corn On Any Real Flush In Prices." Oh, and that it's "macroeconomic outlook remains pessimistic."

First, a general market outlook:

The market environment of the last several months has been aptly described by one of our top research consultants as one of ?inhuman volatility?. We can see this in the frequency of so?called ?one polarity? days in the S&P 500. From 1990 to 2000, there were 29 days on which at least 400 of the 500 S&P constituents had the same directional move. Since July of this year, there have been 34 such days. This is clearly a new regime of volatility for market participants. This volatility, we believe, is a product of what has been a very long process of global deleveraging that has spread from the consumer, to the corporate sector, and finally to the realm of the sovereign sector. With a world economy that has been predominantly reliant on central banks to write put options against financial calamity, the instability in the sovereign sphere has represented a real shift in the volatility paradigm. In a sense, historic market conventions and institutions are being challenged both in terms of their efficacy and their potential longevity in this world of profound imbalances. This necessitates a reevaluation of the current investment processes and an evolution in risk management techniques so that our portfolios can continue to adapt to the new reality of the end of the great moderation in economic and  asset price volatility. The month of October was a wakeup call for us and we are adjusting accordingly.


One of the most significant challenges of the current market environment has been the disproportionate importance of policy and political overture, as opposed to fundamentals, in determining price action. This creates a highly indeterminate period in which volatility is elevated and investment decisions amongst our community can tend to become incredibly myopic, living from one political announcement to the next. Whole political and financial regimes are at stake. This process of deleveraging is nowhere near complete, so we expect this ?inhuman volatility? to persist for the foreseeable future. We expect to adapt through much more short?term focused risk measurement techniques and trading horizons to capture extremes in price action and market positioning. Although our fundamental discipline will not be altered, we will now more prominently recognize the new reality of the inverse relationship between volatility and fundamental relevance.


Our macroeconomic outlook remains pessimistic. Global linkages in trade and finance amplify changes in growth dramatically now, and we continue to believe in a negative growth event with China at its epicenter. We believe this will be materially exacerbated by the rapid decline emerging in European activity, with any bounce in US activity likely to be qualified as ephemeral. Coupled with mounting sovereign stress, this backdrop leads us to maintain our negative bias for markets. We are looking to re?enter our short positions in highly cyclically?geared commodities on continued price strength and we anticipate that we will continue to increase our gold position opportunistically.

And after that cheerful introduction, let's dig in a little into the firm's asset allocation:

Our commodities views remain negative for cyclically?oriented products like base metals and crude, though recent micro developments in the oil market keep us more balanced/agnostic in our near?term price outlook. We are especially bullish gold and Euro?gold and also believe that corn will present a compelling opportunity in the near future. It is hard to see how any cyclical rebound in prices could be sustained with such instability in the macroeconomy and continued weakness in the  anecdotal information we are receiving from so many pivotal supply chains across the world. This is why the variance between price action in many of our markets of focus and what we see as fundamental trends on a forward?looking basis is so challenging at times. In these volatile times, we think it is essential to stick to our core top conviction beliefs and keep the portfolio simple and liquid. Thus, we are long gold, short base metals, a patient seller of strength in crude oil, and a buyer of corn on any real flush in prices.

The answer why Fortress is especially worried about industrial metals is one word: China (well two- add copper).

The investment landscape for industrial metals is becoming increasingly more difficult to navigate. As highlighted in last month’s letter, we are continuing to see a rapid deceleration of growth in China, specifically within the cyclical industries. A recent trip to visit steel companies outside Beijing underlined the impact of extremely tight liquidity and continued restrictive policy in the Chinese housing market. Steel capacity cuts – through idling or accelerated maintenance outages – are now commonplace and the speed of these cuts has certainly surprised the market. Construction is the principal end?market blamed for this weakness; given the very large inventory overhang and the continued lack of liquidity, this is not surprising. In our equity universe, we have also seen numerous companies expressing concerns regarding China construction demand. Zoomlion, China’s second largest construction machinery company, recently said, ?Demand for construction  machinery has shrunken drastically and growth will no doubt continue to slow next year.? We see how quickly the steel market has adjusted for a lower growth scenario in the chart below.


Within the context of declining housing starts, plummeting transaction volumes and the beginning of a meaningful move down in housing prices, these shifts in the steel market have been an interesting harbinger of more substantial problems in the Chinese economy. Our principal concern is the extension of housing weakness into the banking system through the mechanism of both failing developers as well as the opaque and informal lending system.


We are concerned that the recent strength in iron ore, steel and copper has been misinterpreted by the market. In our view, any suggestion that the Chinese market is undergoing a substantial restock is misplaced. The case of copper is an interesting one: throughout September and October, we saw an unprecedented rise in cancelled copper warrants. This is usually interpreted as a positive signal, indicating that the market is in need of metal for immediate delivery. However, the principle reason why these tons are being removed out of the London Metal Exchange warehouses and into China is that they are to be used for trade finance when the arbitrage gap opens up sufficiently for traders to do so. This became apparent in September, but is more an indication of a serious lack of liquidity in China than a rapid improvement in end?demand. We have heard that copper stocks in bonded warehouses have subsequently risen by a meaningful amount, which suggests that end?demand remains subdued. Despite substantial disruptions in the global supply in copper, we feel that rising inventories in China – in the face of declining demand – do not suggest that the metal should trade 25% – 35% above marginal cost. We believe that downside risk remains. Going forward, we anticipate that import demand from China could fall in what is usually a seasonally strong period. Additionally, with virtually no demand growth elsewhere in the world, we believe this could put some pressure on prices.


Going forward, it is important to correctly interpret how Chinese policy response will affect demand for the commodities within the industrial metals space. We have seen very specific policy to address extremely critical issues within the Chinese economy. First, there was the support for the bond issuance of the Ministry of Railways. This is the result of banks unwilling to lend to this ministry, which ultimately puts their working capital at risk. With a huge employee base, the government could not afford to be in a situation where these employees were not getting paid. Second, we have seen some support for small? and medium?sized (SME) businesses that have been affected by extreme tightness in liquidity and exposure to elevated borrowing costs in the informal lending sector. We see both of these instances as reactive policy easing and believe that the government is not yet in a position to implement full?scale easing on a national level. Furthermore, any assumption of a return to a 2008/09 stimulus scenario seems highly unlikely. Moreover, the government has said on multiple occasions that property will continue to be explicitly excluded from selective easing, which makes it difficult for us to be constructive on any commodity that relies heavily on construction demand.

As for Crude:

While we remain cautious on the global economy and its implications for oil demand, we have to respect the rather dramatic improvement witnessed in the global ?micro? crude landscape over the past several months. For example, the seasonal upswing in US implied distillate demand – which frankly has surprised us to the upside – has been more than twice the 5?year average and even stronger than last year’s very impressive performance, largely due to unprecedented strength in export demand from Latin America.


Moreover, the high?frequency data on distillate stocks globally (e.g., US, ARA, Singapore and Japan) reveals an inventory picture that is now nearly as tight as it has been at any point in the past five years. This is a big change from just two months ago when inventories were above the 5?year average.


As a result of these factors, we would rather be sellers of crude on any major rallies from here.

And finally... gold:

Our view on gold is essentially based on what form and function the fundamental resolution of the US and European sovereign imbalances will take. However, the focus is really on Europe. Ultimately, the likely outcome of the Euro?sovereign crisis is that there has to be willingness on the part of the ECB to essentially monetize or backstop the balance sheet liabilities of the nations that are at risk. In the current state of affairs, this is a very large number. However, if Europe slips into a recession and the deficits of these countries surge (as would be expected in that type of economic environment), then the ECB will very likely be forced to abandon several of the original tenants of the Eurocurrency in order the save the currency union itself. Our central case is that if this were to occur, we would find this monetization to be unambiguously bullish gold and bearish the Euro. This is why we think that the Euro?gold position is quite attractive at current levels.


Given the next several months will potentially be a historic time for markets, we expect levels of volatility to remain elevated relative to historic norms. The concern we have and why we continue to believe that there is a material risk of real downside, left tail market outcomes, is that we are in a zero?sum world with incredible asset price volatility. By zero?sum, the issue is that monetary policy responses are creating serial bubbles in markets. This process of bubble propagation is a destabilizing force for markets and increases volatility when these programs conclude. The lesson to be learned is that monetization is leading to commodity price  inflation through the mechanisms of global financial linkages. However, without true organic growth in Western economies, these liquidity measures may reduce tail risk but do not solve the long standing structural issues of employment and potential output growth that plague the West. If politics and policy are the prevailing bias in markets, we will need to adjust elements of our process. After last month?s performance, we have initiated changes and additions to our risk measurement process in order to be more in rhythm with the intraday and day?to?day volatility of markets. We also are now more actively trying to book realized profits – when  they exist – as cycles have been reduced from what appeared as weeks or months to hours and days. We have to adapt to these new realities and endeavor to extract profits accordingly.

We agree.


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Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:04 | 1959512 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Gold, bitchez

but seriously, why is there some fuckin pic of an african drinking and some kind of "waterAid" charity bullshit ad?  Why the fuck can't they develop their OWN water systems like, u know, Rome did 2000 fkin years ago, and have existed for well over a century in whiteyland?

Fuck pouring money down this rathole

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:16 | 1959623 fuu
fuu's picture

I would guess since about 40% of your posts have something to do with blacks or africa you will see lots of contextual ads for your interests.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:21 | 1959665 flattrader
flattrader's picture


I hope Freddie is getting lots of the ads.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:55 | 1959876 economics1996
economics1996's picture

What do the ZH's think of silver?  I wanted to buy some.

Should I switch to gold?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:58 | 1959888 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

play the ratio game, dude.  right now the GS ratio is about 1 to 55.  If the ratio was something like 1 to 40, I'd buy gold but at 1 to 55, silver is a much better buy.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:12 | 1959944 economics1996
economics1996's picture

I agree.  Since 71 (Bretton woods) the DJIA is up 1,262%, GDP up 1,233%, Silver 2158%, TCMDO up 2,902%, Monetary Base up 3,658%, and Gold up 4,177%.

Gold is up historically and silver almost a bargin.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 07:47 | 1962135 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

long platinum - short gold platinum has never been so cheap compared to gold since 20 years

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:00 | 1964513 akak
akak's picture

You cannot say in English "since 20 years" --- it makes no sense.

Why do so many non-native speakers/writers do this exact same thing?
I hope you were not taught this, because it is flatly incorrect, and sounds like gibberish.

What you should be saying is "for the last 20 years", or "over the last 20 years", or "since at least 20 years ago."

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:37 | 1960347 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Just my opinion, but absolutely buy gold over silver.  Silver is an industrial metal.  Gold is a store of value.  

Having said that I have no opinion on how to value Gold in Fiat, i.e. I cannot tell whether it is expensive or cheap.  When fear is high it goes up, when fear dissipates it goes down.  But if I wanted to buy a hedge against inflation, particularly if they start printing again, I would buy gold long before silver. I have not bought any gold since around 1200 oz and part of me was leary of it then.  Look at the price chart from the 1980's. On the downside of that slope physical gold is not liquid. No one will buy it, the coin shops will be on vacation. Gold ETF's are not futures contracts like Celente was trading with MF, and should not be considered the same risk.  My 2 cents.  

FWIW, I think it is too late to buy gold unless major printing begins again in earnest, but who the hell knows. 

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:30 | 1960274 ilion
ilion's picture

Gold and Silver will crash early next year. At our company we've started to position for that. How? Well, shorting Dec 2012 far out of the money gold and silver futures call options. For example today I shorted Dec 2012 Silver 100 call options for 130 points or $650 per contract. I also shorted Dec 2012 gold 3500 call options for 8.0 pts or $800 dollars per contract. When the gold wagon turns, we will see days with 5-10% declines. Don't believe me? Well check out gold/silver charts, and look for yourself how much air there is to fall. Enjoy the ride!

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:46 | 1960415 DartThrowingMonkey
DartThrowingMonkey's picture

Selling teeny options ALWAYS makes money.




Until you blow up.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:18 | 1959635 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

That's funny because the ads are based on your search history

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:55 | 1959879 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I think Trav7777 is one of those fake bigots.  You know, like Strom Thurmond who was an outspoken segregationist in public but was fucking his black maids in private.  

Hey Trav, are you googling "hot black mamas" or "hot African chicks" or something similar?


Stupid bigots, man...

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:35 | 1960031 trav7777
trav7777's picture

a bigot?  Gawd, you people are so fucking stupid.

No, I do it to put you idiots onto your mental 3rd rails.   You act like you're redpill swallowers but you defend portions of the matrix to the death.

The ad was for a charity; that would suggest that I am charitable.

If I say africa should build its own water supply infrastructure, I'm a it.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:25 | 1960250 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, sure Trav, you're "charitable".

Get over yourself, you fucking buffoon.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:22 | 1960662 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Trav the ZH idiot.
You are Clayton Bigsby.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 20:21 | 1961272 tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

I got a BUY GOLD and SILVER ad. Wish I had the african one.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:20 | 1959653 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It isn't hard to understand why women are not even remotely attracted to a piece of shit like you.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:25 | 1959690 flattrader
flattrader's picture

I like to think that Trav7777 just has access to the computer in the dayroom of his facility.

Assuming he's not a "resident"...somewhere, I think he is a disgrace to trailer park trash...everywhere.

Re: women--I think Trav just has a lot of "first" dates.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:00 | 1959895 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

What are you talking about?  Trav7777 is a STUD!  He's had two girlfriends his whole life: Left Palmela and Right Palmela.  

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:40 | 1960054 trav7777
trav7777's picture

what makes you say that?

Your thesis is that I am trailer park trash because I don't toe the MSM line on race.

This means:

a) you are the equivalent of a fucking TRAINED DOG salivating at a bell

b) you are an idiot

c) the MSM lies about everything and spews propaganda EXCEPT about race.  There they tell the truth.  Because you want to believe it.

d) all of the above

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:38 | 1960046 trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude, I just slept with a chick from ethiopa last night.  She was working the desk at a 3-day technical training session I'm attending.  You haven't a fuckin clue what you're talking about.  Guys drop "call me" business cards on her daily.  U want a fuckin pic?

I love provoking apoplexy in idiots like you.  And all you can do is hate on me...but it's hatred borne out of envy because I shamelessly use my superior intellect to make fools of you.

I say africa should develop its own water infrastructure like everywhere else did and I am a...bigot?

You cannot even put to words how fucked up such a pavlovian reflex is by you cretins.  You literally have no control over your own emotions or thoughts.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:43 | 1960064 fuu
fuu's picture

Don't you have to be at the gym in 26 minutes?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:12 | 1960177 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nah, wtf for...

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:05 | 1960151 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"U want a fuckin pic?" Yeah.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:11 | 1960174 trav7777
trav7777's picture

gimme ur email and i'll send one over

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:02 | 1960557 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Is this our boy?

Well, like I said, lots of first dates...if any.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:06 | 1960576 trav7777
trav7777's picture

uh...yeah, um, you need to return that "internet sleuth" degree from DeVry, bud.  I have never said anything that suggested I was from australia

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:15 | 1960620 flattrader
Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:23 | 1959675 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

I think they have it wrong on oil. Patient buyer as we climb past $120 on all sorts of global fuckery. And let's not forget the S in GSR. And I'd stay the hell away from copper.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:43 | 1959808 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Turd has a post up talking bout negative gold lease rates being a possible indicator of a huge gold beat down in the works. So that should be short gold in the near term. I am going to watch carefully and may pick up an OZ or so if given an nice opportunity.

MENA seems set to go sky high any minute. There is just a steady stream of bat shit crazy news that seems to be accellerating. I think your patient buyer comment is spot on.



Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:05 | 1959860 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Thx Cooter. I'm weary of PM's short term despite my not insubstantial silver positions which I can't be bothered day-trading on dips etc. There is massive covering on the horizon and sacrificial positions will certainly shake-up weak hands shortly. Stay patient and stick to your global narrative is essential.



And BTW there's another gunman loose on university campus here in the good ol' US of Apocalypse shooting shit up.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:51 | 1959858 CORNGUY
CORNGUY's picture



You are a douche.




Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:41 | 1960057 trav7777
trav7777's picture

state the evidence to support your thesis...

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:53 | 1959868 economics1996
economics1996's picture

There is a world of difference with one standard deviation in intelligence.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:42 | 1960063 trav7777
trav7777's picture

your lips to god's ears...

there is an INCOMPREHENSIBLE and unbridgeable gap between the average person and someone like me who is capable of ceiling scores on an IQ test.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:39 | 1960739 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yeah, right. You should just STFU, before someone bashes your feeble head in with a 24 gauge steel pipe and RAISES your IQ to 68.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 20:03 | 1961211 tooktheredpill
tooktheredpill's picture

so hell breaking out in Europe = buy gold? did that work during the credit crunch hell? 

Manners pls trav.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:05 | 1959528 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Sounds I need to find a miner that gets some gold, silver, and copper RVM??

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:07 | 1959541 Forgiven
Forgiven's picture

"Long gold" translated means buying paper which means they're losers.  Now if they had announced they actually take delivery, well that's something else entirely.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:09 | 1959560 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Their prospectus on crude doesnt even mention the possibility WW3 in the mid east could kick off any day now?


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:14 | 1959609 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

EXACTLY. Being short crude with all the crap going on in the middle east is STUPID! When gold goes through the floor because of rising oil (deflationary) and the continued EU disaster, the central banks will get the green light to print and bail themselves out.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:45 | 1959821 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I agree. The gold/silver beat down has to happen before the massive printing of new monies; you can bet your ass on it.



Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:19 | 1959974 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture


It becomes obvious once you begin to think like a criminal.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:34 | 1959747 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yup. Sheep, on it as always..

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:00 | 1959894 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Well remember that China owns a huge quantity of treasury and what the China decided to force delivery on the huge amount of paper Gold deposit which sit on the Hong Kong banks that is an instant game over for the USD, which is a more potent weapon than nukes people. Anyway you could still buy some out of the money time spread on Oil starting post 2012 elections. BTW short Vale people.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:08 | 1959931 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

You have a binary outcome on oil and the 110 140 USD price range for Oil is actually empty .....could do a straddle....

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:09 | 1959565 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Our view on gold is essentially based on what form and function the fundamental resolution of the US and European sovereign imbalances will take'

China, might want to include China again.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:10 | 1959572 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

After today, I bet they sell all their gold and pile into Treasuries.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:12 | 1959589 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Robo, either seek immediate psychiatric assistance, or stop your insane obsessing over your TERRIBLE call to sell your gold at the $900 'top'!

OK! We get it! Youre all full of sour grapes! Shut up already!

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:39 | 1959782 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The world according to Robo is a place where nothing ever changes and TPTB live in harmony with the peons. I'm glad to be a picturesque peon, singing as I toil away shopping at the mall, eating fast food. 

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:11 | 1959581 Cdad
Cdad's picture

As a result of these factors, we would rather be sellers of crude on any major rallies from here.

I would much prefer to get long gold into weakness, and sell WTI against it...although admittedly, the "everything is one" trade would likely diminish the profatibility of the pair.

I suspect WTI will weaken dramatically into 2012 as the most recent faux bounce in our faux economy evaporates.

Currently no position on gold, while short WTI.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:31 | 1959733 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Put buyers on USO @ 37 and expiring.  On the roll over, put buyers on USO @ 35.

They are aiming for the break in WTI.  Vultures circling caged F'N Global accounts?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 19:12 | 1961075 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As SheepDog mentioned above, these are economic forecasts which wholly ignore the political world. While I agree that the upcoming disaster in the markets will kill demand, that has nothing to do with potential of war (and other political unrest) destroying production on a far greater scale. (not to mention military consumption taking up the slack)

I see anyone playing in this space as nothing but a mark waiting for their face to get ripped off by the Street.

I would think Taleb's Black Swan book would've clued people into this by now, but no, it seems that too many still prefer to pick up pennies in front of the dozer, making this game of shake the tree quite profitable for the criminals like Corzine, who survive on other peoples' money. In other words, they're gonna get squished eventually.

Then there's the whole untruth about your money being safe, when it's likely all commingled by now.

Why anyone would play in this space is beyond me. Madoff should've been enough to kill the notion that you can profit from trusting scammers, just because you think they are only scamming others.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:11 | 1959587 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

These guys are trading paper vs paper.  They have no real gold exposure.  So they will be defeated in the rigged paper casino or the rigged paper casino will default and they will lose everything.

The COMEX learned nothing from their MF Global payout.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 19:14 | 1961080 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, those at the COMEX learned how JPM can steal billions at a time with impunity.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:29 | 1959617 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

I agree also.  Excellent analysis IMO.

Edit:  Would also like to add that I remain bullish on US, but did take profits in a major way after the open this morning.  

Looking at the big picture I see the following:

- US consumers ahead of the rest of the world in deleveraging.

- US Co's have cash stacked to the rafters.

- Business are reporting excellent profits

- Companies are back to raising dividends to attract investors

- Commodity prices should fall, making construction cheaper

We are getting a pretty nice setup here for a bull market.  After this week dry powder has been restocked at the Edwards place.  Reccomend using EZ volatility to start scaling into your long term positions.  Not buying at this level, let the EZ blow up first then get long.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:43 | 1960065 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Don't forget the priivate, state, and local debt.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:47 | 1960421 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Yes, this is obviously a big issue.  But we have the distinct advantage of the rest of the world clamoring to buy our debt.  We have time to turn it around if we can just muster the will of the people to replace all of the bums that run our government.  I am not fooled by the red team/blue team crap.  Both of them are intent on giving away taxpayer money to their constituents and campaign donors.

Once industry returns, government rightfully needs to be slashed in half, at least.  The impediment to our debt issue can be solved if only we could find some adults willing to run for office.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 22:16 | 1961521 smiler03
smiler03's picture

"We have time to turn it around if we can just muster the will of the people to replace all of the bums that run our government"

And therein lies the rub.

I can't see this happening in my lifetime. Lucky that I'm 103 tomorrow :O)

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:16 | 1959620 hairball48
hairball48's picture

'Our view on gold is essentially based on what form and function the fundamental resolution of the US and European sovereign imbalances will take'

That's an easy question to answer.

The "fundamental resolution" will be bankruptsy/insolvency on a grand scale.

Why do y'all think China and it's people are buying gold and silver just as fast as they can?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:21 | 1959621 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Why did JPM grab 30 Million barrels of oil from the emergency fund recently?

I would not short oil...doesn't make sense with MENA problems. In fact, I added more USO.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 19:16 | 1961088 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Didn't they sell it to China?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:26 | 1959640 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"We have to adapt to these new realities and endeavor to extract profits accordingly."


LOL!, They, and others, may be successful in extracting more paper wealth, when in reality it will be a slow grind to the eventual conclusion that all the real wealth was extracted long ago.  Look at real energy flux, it is flat and will remain so while the interest on the debt driving any reported "growth" and profits requires more servicing at an exponential rate.  Good louck with that. 

In general, as the big players start stabing each other in the back I am inclined to believe that an individual trader who does their home work may fair much better than any brokerage or trading firm that isn't on the Fed's speed dial, which is most.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:44 | 1960069 trav7777
trav7777's picture

right up until they steal your funds to cover their own leveraged bets

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:54 | 1960109 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Timing is everything Trav, the game is still being played and the fiat can still be converted into physical.  And after that my response will be "what gold and silver?"  Sorry officer, none of that here, honest.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:07 | 1960584 trav7777
trav7777's picture

ah, timing...yeah, it's everything.

And there's this thing also about don't jump in front of steamrollers to pick up pennies.  I liken the deflationist argument to proposing to grab wallets and cellphones during the stampede in a nightclub fire and thinking you're going to grab all that wealth and get out.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:22 | 1960666 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Still here and doing fine, thanks for noticing.  Troll harder.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:21 | 1959667 GoldenGal
GoldenGal's picture

So will gold go up next year?


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:22 | 1959677 GoldenGal
GoldenGal's picture

physical gold...will it go up next year? should I buy?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:40 | 1959787 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Physical gold will continue to rise in price(with corrections) as long as the money printing continues.

And the money printing will continue in some form or another until the the "crackup boom" as von Mises refers to it occurs.

The $64 question is when the final collapse will occur....and nobody knows for sure when that will happen. Timing depends on decisions by   Bernanke, that shifty eyed lil bastard Tim Geithner, Goldman Sachs, and the other criminals in gov't and finance

So accumulate gold and silver on dips....and of course  ammo and "stuff" any time you can :)

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:57 | 1959884 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

Physical gold will continue to rise in price(with corrections) as long as the money printing continues.

although I am bullish on gold (I bought 20 oz yesterday), this statement is not necessarily true.

Significant dollar devaluation happened from 1980-1999 and yet the price of physical gold in dollars FELL despite the devaluation.

in addition: I've stated this a few times, but I am somewhat nervous about gold because it has been tracking the S&P very closely since September.  Prior to September, I felt that it's movements were not well correlated to equities... since September that is not the case.

Gold goes up when equities go up, and gold goes down when equities go down.  (now).

will that change?  I don't know.  it could be that there will be a "breaking" in which equities plummet and then gold is seen as the true safe haven (this is what many on ZH hypothesize).

HOWEVER: that time is not yet now.  The acting safe haven is still the US Dollar, no matter how insane that sounds.  That is where money is flowing on all "risk off" days.

the way I see it at this point:

RISK ON = buy equities, buy Euro, buy debt, buy PMs

RISK OFF: sell equities, sell Euro, sell debt, sell PMs, and buy USD.

my gut feeling is that this will change, which is why I bought 20 oz of gold (physical) yesterday.  but I'm not sure.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:57 | 1960125 hairball48
hairball48's picture

I wouldn't argue too much with what you say. Maybe I was oversimplifying a bit...However, I'm looking at it from a longer term perspective. I'm a poor veteran on SSI and part time work.

I'm neither a trader nor an investor. I cashed out all my equities 401k , etc. just before the crash in 2007...The ones my ex wife didn't get in my divorce :). Partly luck and partly because the real estate market "bubble" worried me. So, att I'm a 100% in gold/silver/cash.

I hate to say "this time is different"...from 1980-1999, but it is. I'm 63 and I was around for that time period and remember it well. Dow under a 1000 and the Nov 1980? 30 year USTbond had a coupon of 14%!!!

I'm a 100% confident that very bad times are coming. I just dunno when. So...I buy gold and sliver when I can. And I have stashed everything I need to survive. I believe Kyle Bass is correct when he says the crash will come with very little warning. I don't want to be in a "paper asset" position when that time comes.

I'll have everything I need, including that short barrel .12g pumpgun I'm holding....for when the food riots and pillaging baggy ass pants skinheads come around :)


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:44 | 1960402 Spacemoose
Spacemoose's picture

gold may well fall but:

1) there is a non-trivial chance that social security, health care and other government benefits will be means tested 10 years from now (in fact i believe it to be a certainty).

2) all property discoverable by the government may be subjected to taxation in the future (even if it isn't at this time).

can anyone suggest another asset which is liquid, easily transportable and not subject to discovery by the government?


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:55 | 1960496 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

The inflection point is when the confidence is errored, as long as confidence is in there the debt increase continues, as the debt increase produces diminishing return confidence is shaken, which promotes the debt destruction. When the debt is being destroyed Gold goes up, when we reach a level of debt which is sustainable again, you´d better have sold your Gold. We are far from there.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:22 | 1959987 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

I would add that it is probably good at this point to dollar cost average regardless of the dips.  Yes, it's better to get it when it takes a dive.  But the key thing to remember is to keep adding as long as the situation remains broken. 

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:28 | 1959712 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

I'm with robotrader on this one. Im going to go sell all  my gold now and invest in Justin Beiber memrobilia.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:31 | 1959728 GoldenGal
GoldenGal's picture

I'm going to buy  rare bakelite bracelets.!

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:32 | 1959741 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Long vol 

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:17 | 1959968 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Only relevant from the beginning of the Ldn session.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:35 | 1959749 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

It's not "gold" they're bullish's "EURO:GOLD" - and they're "buyers" not "holders".

Nothing bullish here for gold.  More paper-money-earning gamesmanship.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:35 | 1959753 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Poor Robot. To much LA air.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:46 | 1959835 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

I think  they're kyaking down very choppy waters. The outlook for the next 6-12 months couldn't be murkier. Many air pockets, mountains and cliffs to navigate. Lots of unpredictable big issues. Markets are emotional and mood changes by the hour, minute, nanosecond. 

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:48 | 1959840 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture



"We're Long Gold, Short Base Metals, Patient Crude Strength Seller & Buyer Of Corn On Any Real Flush In Prices." Oh, and that it's "macroeconomic outlook remains pessimistic."

Ditto on all counts. Nice article.


" After last month's performance, we have initiated changes and additions to our risk measurement process in order to be more in rhythm with the intraday and day-to-day volatility of markets. We also are now more actively trying to book realized profits – when  they exist – as cycles have been reduced from what appeared as weeks or months to hours and days."

Oh, oh! The only changes anyone needs to make is to fortify your earnings and stop bleeding other people's money every day on the rigged markets. Do they really want to day trade in these uncertain times? Doesn't sound like risk management, more like risk taking.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:59 | 1959892 agNau
agNau's picture

The Govt. IS the bond market.
The Govt. IS becoming the Commodities market.
Soon they will be the Supermarket, as all literally feed at their trough.
Sustenance for obedience.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:50 | 1959847 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

Silver trades at 1000 times the amount the COMEX holds in physical metal.  Wouldn't that make it a 1000:1 ratio of paper silver vs. physical silver.

Same goes for gold.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:36 | 1960037 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

That's where the missing $1.2 billion dollars went when MF Global collapsed. Gold and Silver contract holders had announced they intended to take physical Gold and Silver to the tune of $1.2 billion dollars in naked short contracts.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:53 | 1959869 walcott
walcott's picture

not sure how anybody thinks that the paper game is about rewarding anybody holding physical metals.

They're working their ass off to keep the dollar the reserve currency! NWO? it's been in place

since 1971! It's called the petrodollar. US dollar. Have you forgotten 1980 Miracle on Ice?

USA! USA! USA! Think for a second. 


And ask yourself this have you ever heard a Russian or Chinese or Arab tell a good joke?

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 14:54 | 1959872 agNau
agNau's picture

I am a buyer of Drone futures.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:24 | 1959991 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

interesteing on the copper going to china and being used to finance trade

once upon a fringe blog, i tried to point out to someone who wondering why the price of copper wasn't cratering faster that it had a history of being useful as money, not just wiring, etc

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 15:25 | 1959998 vegas
vegas's picture

Maybe someday they will realize it is the thinking that gets them in trouble.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:05 | 1960152 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Gold hit coming. The almost daily am gold crush will end, damn. It was like my personal ATM.


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 04:43 | 1962122 akak
akak's picture

Yes, King Canute, go command the price of gold to recede, just as the first Canute tried to command the tide.
I suspect you are going to have just as much luck in your efforts as he did.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:14 | 1960187 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Being a relatively poor, uneducated "redneck" vet...I tend to look at things in a somewhat simple fundamental way.

In the long run, those who own or control the basic "stuff of life" will do well.

Food, fuel, even water/water producing assets will do well. That would be farmers, farm corporations, miners of base metals, oil/gas producers, etc. People must have those things, or "stuff" derived from those commodities to survive. So equities in well run companies with strong balance sheets related to these things will do well also...imho.

Same idea for PM miners. Precious metals have been used for money for 1000's of years...and will be again(in some form) when today's fiat currencies finally collapse.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:14 | 1960189 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Regarding the selling of crude, wouldn’t betting against the probability of a few strategically positioned oil-pipeline explosions in the near future, constitute an imprudent position at such time?


Considering the possibility of a rapid price increase in the event of further escalating geopolitical pressure, despite the otherwise accurate forecast regarding the initial stages of a broad economic down-cycle, and its subsequent impact on broad-spectrum industry demand?


Opinions appreciated.


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 16:54 | 1960486 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

fortress, cautious on the global economy, sees the inventories (for distillates) tightening and will sell into any rallies

so, w/ their strategy they seem to be "betting" that the price of crude will go up and down and they will sell into rallies (and presumably BTFDs)

they may not feel so good about fading the rallies if more pipelines start exploding or if petro-flows are interrupted;  we shall see...

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 17:15 | 1960619 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Thanks, I don't even understand why I assumed that a longterm position cannot be altered by short term trades.

Could be brain-freeze from watching Corzine talk for such a lengthy period.

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