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France Gives "Fairness Doctrine" Details; Will Tax Millionaires At 75%

Tyler Durden's picture





 

With the Great June Socialist Revolution spilling over into July, here are some details as they become available from France:

  • FRANCE TO HAVE NEW TAX RATE OF 45% FOR WEALTHY
  • FRANCE TO TAX INCOME OF MORE THAN EU1 MLN AT 75%, AYRAULT SAYS
  • FRANCE TO TAX CAPITAL INCOME AT SAME LEVEL AS WAGES
  • FRANCE TO RAISE TAXES FOR LARGE COMPANIES, BANKS, OIL FIRMS

But... FRANCE TO ANNUL PLANNED VAT INCREASE PLANNED BY SARKOZY

After all, it's only fair. In other news, we are rotating our secular long thesis away from Belgian caterers and into tax offshoring advisors, now that nobody in the 1% will pay any taxes ever again.

The good news is that with the entire world set to adopt 100%+ taxes on "wealthy" individuals as defined arbitrarily by Ph.Ds, there will be no place to hide. Which incidentally is just the first step toward what we warned back in September 2011 will happen: a 30% tax on all financial assets. Everywhere.

 


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Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:49 | Link to Comment kato
kato's picture

Tax rates on assets?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:03 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

so much for liberty. time to die a little.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:06 | Link to Comment Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Oooo La La!. With the french millionaries running away, my favorite Pigalle girl Fifi should cost me less, No?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

Hollande think those presidents of third world countries underestimate the power of the market. A powerful government can do almost anything. But that does not ensure it fulfills its objectives. Poor France.!!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

People of France should be more than willing to pony up the taxes to pay for the full litany of services provided by the state. If it wasn't for the 'state' mankind would still be draggin' knuckles and livin' in caves. Only the state can provide the resources needed by modern man to live in freedom, prosperity and peace.

(As you can see, I'm trying to channel MDB since his input is currently missing.)

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them." Margaret Thatcher

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

damn i wish we can take all the Obamatron welfare/disability moochers and ship em to fucking France

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

It's miraculous how the people who are least in control of their own lives, so enthusiastically desire imposition of controls on the lives of others.

I guess it's a twisted emotional release for their inability to actually compete.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

What's French for "Galt's Gulch"?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:36 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Ayn Rand is unheard of in France.   And mind you, most of them imagine the UK is a good example of free markets red in tooth and blood.   Really.    They 'ave zee "ultraliberalisme anglosaxon" on the tip of their tongue. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

A pricier Royale with cheese is gonna get Samuel L. Jackson even more riled up.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"What's French for "Galt's Gulch"?"

Switzerland

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

The paradigm is shifting. People are waking up and realizing that the only way to progress as a society is to divert more resources to the government. The thought of being 'entrepreneurial' and taking on 'personal responsibility' now fills people with dread. People are now seeing that a world with risks is simply intolerable, and the only compassionate way to organize society is to eliminate risks by trusting infallible political professionals with the right to redistribute wealth as they see fit. A decade ago, a 75% tax rate would have been unacceptable, but today it is welcomed, even by a large number of zerohedge readers. This is progress. The progressive revolution is unstoppable, and there's nothing whiny libertarians can do to stop it.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

At this rate ~ very soon, all 'government workers' will be the only millionaires left... Then who do they propose to tax?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:50 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I'd argue that at this rate we will all be billionaires.  I mean, thanks to ZIRP there is no ral cost for capital creation, right...

 

FAIL.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:56 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I am a Zimbabwe multi-trillionaire.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 18:06 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

I just finished rolling my change as well.  I think I'll buy a chocolate bar...how much is that you ask? 

The platry sum of 5 trillion Zim Bux. 

I understand that the new currencies are being fashioned so quickly that they've run out of presidents to put on them so they just slap a picture of whatever is handy as the currency theme.  With the AfricaAid being the face of all things North American in Africa, the limited edition Milli Vanilli Five trillion dollar notes should be very collectible to match the John Isuzu One Trillion Dollar bill.  Of course I'm just rambling now and this news of france being retarded has thus rendered me retarded...

 

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:37 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The printed money has mostly gone to sleep or to waste.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:41 | Link to Comment nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Francis, they won't do it that way but the way they did it in the Soviet Union.  Some of the premiers and politburo members only received small salaries to show that everyone was equal.  Everything they got from booze, nookie, etc. was under the table; hence, one can live like a billionaire on next to nothing.  Simple really...the PIK program redux.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:27 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

We're not yet at that 'advanced' stage of thinking...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:49 | Link to Comment The Continental
The Continental's picture

So let's extrapolate your logic into the not so distant future:

As government expands and the private sector constinues to atrophy from ever higher taxes, regulations and sundry disincentives to growth, the effective tax rate climbs to 100%. So revenues have maximized and may even begin to decline if the private sector experiences recession. The government has now grown to maximum size and scope and is still running fiscal deficits and carrying the largest aggregate public debt in history.

When tax rates hit 100%, deficits continue higher to feed the ever growing social welfare state, and the private sector (what's left of it) stagnates or declines and with it revenues to the public treasury, what does the government do next to address the fiscal deficits and ballooning soveriegn debt? What is the long term solution?

Please be specific in your response.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

You have shown yourself to be yet another purist libertarian. Silly purist arguments are simply not worth repsonding to. NOT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE, some things come in SHADES OF GREY.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:14 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

and the kettle is black, right dumbass.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:22 | Link to Comment Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Translation:

 

I am incapable of a rebuttal, therefore I will shame you and imply you are stupid.

 

 

Hey, it works for politicians, why not for trolls?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:23 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Haha, spoken like a true douche bag.  Love ya though.  Keep em coming.  Your zingers keep me smiling.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:52 | Link to Comment The Continental
The Continental's picture

Like all socialists, you are a fraud and a lair. When faced with facts that contradict your world view, you ignore them. To deflect attention from the argument, you attack your opponent with ad hominems and pleas to emotions over logic. The majority sadly fall for your subterfuge and you continue to line your own pockets while public finance is destroyed, private finance is corrupted and the populace is fleeced behind closed doors. In the end, when the system implodes and the massive fraud and theft are exposed, and millions of lives shattered, you will run off with your ill-gotten booty while the responsible adults will be left behind to clean up your mess.

You are a cockroach. I step on thee.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:36 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

No problem.  Raise the tax rates to 200%, 300%, 500%, and more!

 

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:01 | Link to Comment arkady
arkady's picture

Other than the small liberal group of readers on ZH why do you assume the 75% if welcomed?  I find it to be rather repugnant and an example of a desperate Government and a desperate people trying to make sense of the damage caused by decades of progressivism.   The Greek tragedy has been entirely eclipsed by the stupidity of the French.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

why do you assume the 75% if welcomed?

I don't assume it. I know it by the votes of the French voters. They wanted a Marxist and they got one.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

the only way to progress as a society is to divert more resources to the government and 

the only compassionate way to organize society is to eliminate risks by trusting infallible political professionals with the right to redistribute wealth as they see fit

Are you being facetious or are you just kinda "special"?

 

A decade ago, a 75% tax rate would have been unacceptable

It's still a stupid, useless idea. Here's why:

Our ‘Blood-less’ Economies

 

Income tax theft- Billionaire versus Joe Six Pack

 


Tue, 07/03/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Ah, a little Marquis de Sade in training are we with a spank me sign on your milliondollarbonus bahookie. I wager this is not your only gig. Gluttons love punishment. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Something isn't right here. You shouldn't have to pay a French woman.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment 0z
0z's picture

Maybe shes going to leave too, as anyone with a bit of decency would. Retreat, regroup, rethink.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:05 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

But I am le tired....

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment beaker
beaker's picture

This is not that high of a rate if you say it fast.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:12 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

You try saying soixante-quinze fast. Cannot be done...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:21 | Link to Comment Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

Soixante-neuf is even more of a mouthful

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

With the passage of Obamacare the US has taken a giant step towards European style socialism.  Obviously the US will take a giant step towards European taxation.  All kinds of increases on the well off will be proposed.  The purpose of the scary proposals will be to get the well off to line up for the least onerous tax:  VAT tax.  The VAT tax is hidden, not "progressive", and will raise the most tax. 

Particularly pleasing to many generational war junkies here is that the VAT tax will capture a percentage of retirement assets.  By percentage of retirement assets I mean exactly that.  Not a percentage of capital gains.  So it is the generational war junkies who will be bailed out by "socialism".

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

Oh no! Now the job creators have no inventive to invest ^H^H^H^H^H loot & pillage. The end is near!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

Oh the tyranny!  But at least it's not as bad as what they did in the USA where the top marginal tax rate stood at 90% for 20 years, then 70% for another 18 year.  Such oppression! 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:43 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

With loopholes they drove mac trucks through, whole freight trains and cargo ships.    Tax policy is about social engineering but also command and control, getting people to do what the retenu of bureaucrats working for each legislator want.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Liberty to plunder? The ultra wealthy should be taxed on Wealth - not income.

And eisenhowers 93% if it's an Income tax works for me.

The ultra wealthy got their $ thru fraud and bribing our politicians anyway.

In fact Rico laws says illgotten wealth from criminals can be taken.

Or we can hang the rich - take your choice -

Hanging or taxes -

http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Announced with ironic Gallic timeliness -- just a bit before Bastille Day...Égalité "created" and enforced via the tax code.

Vive la France ! 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

We'll sneak this in while the Turkey-Syria thing is ongoing. Then we people stop thinking about that or about China or about taking the whole months of July and August to go down to the Riviera, they will never know what happened. He he he. We're smart. We thought of the Maginot Line and all. You cant fool the French government!!! (And if a single one of you says Marechal Petain, well...piss off!) 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:35 | Link to Comment zuuma
zuuma's picture

Kato...

Exactly! 

Tax on what? Income or assets? Who is a millionaire?

Is a millionaire someone who has saved a million$$ over 40 years of work? In one sense, sure.

How about a farmer with 600 tillable acres? He's a millionaire. MAkes 60 or 70 grand a year - weather permitting - but he's a "Millionaire".

Or is a millionaire someone who's annual pay totals a million (or  more)?  Maybe. Briefly.

If the high-income dude pisses it all away each year (sports star, actor, trust fund baby, lottery winner, etc), how are they taxed?

Warren Buffet pays himself a paltry, upper-middle class "salary". No wonder his secretary pays a lower income tax rate than him (he says).

Whatever the number, Buffet is a multi-multi billionaire. Unless he sells things (cap gains) or withdraws/pays himself from the pile (income) he is tax free. No wonder he's a fan of raising income taxes. He doesn't need to take an income.

The USA, so far, hasn't really gone after Assets - apart from property taxes & estate taxes - like some countries.

IIRC, the USA's total reported wage/salary income is about 2.5 Trillion. That's all of it. Shoe shine boy up to Bill Gates.

Calls to tax income to erase the defecit are just silly.

Confiscating 100% - ALL - the income of people making $250k/ year on up, might only close the defecit gap -the amount we are spending beyond revenue. That wouldn't solve the problem. Worse, it is a signal for the most productive among us to cash out, liquidate & get the hell out. Nobody works for free, least of all rich guys.

Which brings us back to assets. What is the "book value" of the usa? unmined minerals, undrilled oil. Tillable land. trust funds, everything.  Probably a huge number.  If our national debt is, say, 15 Trillion, and our national asset value is, say, 60 Trillion, one could say that, as a nation, we have a very positive net worth. Maybe someone has better numbers than these, but you get the drift.

Imagine Gates, Buffet, the Kennedys - all the super rich folks that push push push for high income taxes, suddenly get scratched for a 5% tax on all assets. They wouldn't feel the bite. That's 3 trillion/ year coming in from the actual "rich".

Then, cut income taxes across the board. Maybe an 8% flat tax. EVERYBODY PAYS. Everyone has skin in the game. Make income a good thing to do. Everyone who has an income - and now getting more of it - will wanna spend more, too. Which, ironically, will make all those rich guys' assets even more valuable.

Maybe by focusing on income instead of assets, we've been on the wrong path.

Too bad the illuminati prefer the current system of skimming the peasants' income & inflating away our savings with money printing, as their hard asset piles continue to grow.

oops! There... I just woke up. When will the power coome back on?

 

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

France does tax assets already. Owning a home worth more than  XXX puts you in a higher tax bracket. What you describe is called a wealth tax and just like the income tax it feeds off the middle class and restritcs their ability to save, by taxing their savings. Horiible idea.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:39 | Link to Comment mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

But you don't need to save so much when you have guaranteed health care and pension.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:55 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Good one!   

A generation and a half, maybe two, actually receicved their guaranteed health care and pensions.    Folks after that see their pensions and healthcare NOMINALLY being delivered but the quality is in permanent decline.  

The low cost health care is being delivered by lower quality doctors and nurses, because the state has to control costs, and does so by squeezing the state-educated suppliers.    Smart kids who would otherwise have gone into medecine don't, and foreigners who country is worse, and whose schools and values are lower than in the west, replace them in droves.   French people know full well doctors are getting screwed and pity them.

The quality of life is constantly degraded by rising crime, police tolerance of crime, and magrebins monstrous unemployable youth running about, using the word "francais" as an insult, and terrorizing womenfolk, they way they learned things should be in their home lives.   Of course, as to incomes, the list of deductions on your paycheck exceeds a full page of tiny type and is getting longer now, so you have no extra margin to move in any direction the government doesn't want you to.  

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:45 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The ISF, "impot sur les grandes fortunes" has driven lots of famous-in-France celebrities to live off shore, famously.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 20:44 | Link to Comment toncuz
toncuz's picture

Assets are the ONLY thing that should be taxed ...NEVER INCOME. Those who control the most , should pay the most.

And remember...the problem with capitalism...you eventually run out of stealing other people's LABOR.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:51 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

EU austerity. Increase taxes and increase spending = Growth

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:52 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Did you mean "cancerous Growth"?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

Yes, but I didn't need to know I had to spell it out.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Not normally, but I'm sure this will bring MDB into the fray and he is a little slow on the uptake.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment superbroker1
superbroker1's picture

Cant wait!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:52 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

45% - So now the French will pay what I pay?  Fuck me, I have been living in the wrong country all along.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Uh, Duh!!!  A country full of French women (who speak great French) and you've just now figured it out. Merde'.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:59 | Link to Comment AUD
AUD's picture

And you'll get your fry frenched.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:02 | Link to Comment Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

Don't worry, now that the GOP got rid of that crazy uncle Ron Paul who wanted to shrink down the federal government, Mitt Romney will come down to save the day by doing what Obama is doing, only it won't be those pesky democrats.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:27 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Romney will raise taxes and fees all over the place like he did in MA.  Only then will your typical Republican realize that Romney shouldn't even be in the Republican party.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

"Only then will your typical Republican realize that Romney shouldn't even be in the Republican party."

One would think they would have figured that out already after what happened to them with the Bushes.

Stop dreaming, it only helps them. The GOP base is just as zombified as those Obama supporters.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:51 | Link to Comment PivotalTrades
PivotalTrades's picture

Didnt even see your post

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

"Conservative" is not equal to "Republican" 

If a football field were the political spectrum, Obama and Romney would be one yard apart......that is the problem.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:47 | Link to Comment PivotalTrades
PivotalTrades's picture

We already had the the non republican Bushs both Georges were only social conservatives. Not true shrink the Gov Repubs

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 17:59 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Bushes were not Republicans, either.  But Romney will be "in your face" obvious.  The Bushes gave us Souter and Roberts.  Can't wait for Romney's first SC appointment.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:52 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

correct.  One party, by the banks and financial houses, for the banks and financial houses.

 

How about we have another unfunded war or two?  Yeah, that will fix it.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:28 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Hmmmm...tough choice...do I go with 'stupid' or 'stupid on roids'.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yeah, but we still have nascar

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:20 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

I've seen Talladega Nights...the French are coming!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

direct taxation is low in france, more like 15% on gross revenues.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:03 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

45% - So now the French will pay what I pay?

- did you know the French already pay over 20% "VAT", which looks like a 20% sales tax to the end consumer?   

- Were you aware that income taxes aren't the only taxes in France, not by a long shot?   There is more than a page of tax line items between the top and bottom lines of a pay slip in France, and none of those include the income tax, which in France is not paid in bits each pay period but all at once, via a separate process, as a result of filing their income tax forms.

On top of that you have a, for lack of better term, regulatory tax.   Because of the giant spaghetti of cost-raising mandates and rules about how things must be done or can't be done, everything you might want to consume over there is a lot more expensive, or nearly everything.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

Did anyone else just hear the Vacuum cleaner just turn on

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:59 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It's really kind of strange...  if printing at any plausibly sane level can't fill the debt hole, then how will confiscation?  I'd hope that people realize the debts are so large that confiscation can't pay them...  and, even if the practice is successful, it will ensure capital flight for a few generations.  This is pure and total capitulation...  desperation.  Especially considering budgetary contraints have yet to be fruitfully implemented.

Retribution is awesome and all, but retribution is only moral when it pinpoints wrongdoers...  unfortunately, the mob is inherently inaccurate.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:53 | Link to Comment Strut
Strut's picture

Oh Noes! The poor job creators...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The problem with confiscation is that in doing so, you must then take over the role.  The problem, of course, is that we can say that they provide no value to society, while at the same time we are incapable of creating any viable jobs ourselves...  In other words, the government is going to piss the spoils away just the same...  and, net of nets, J6P (jean-pierre plonk, in this case) is no better...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:38 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

If a man works hard and smart and earns a lot of money, why are people who don't work entitled to any of his money?

Now if the man is a banker or other crook, he should just be executed but taxation is thievery- no more, no less

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

I guess it's time for Johnny Depp to return to the US if he hasn't already.  LOL

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 13:15 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Excellent point. There's another one.... Roman Polanski 

Also now that Wimbledon is in progress, try finding a single decent French player who does NOT use Switzerland for residential purposes. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment CreativeDestructor
CreativeDestructor's picture

chi ching

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:54 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

This will be awesome.  I need to pick up some popcorn.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:09 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

With the way you go through the stuff do you buy futures?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

FRANCE TO TAX CAPITAL INCOME AT SAME LEVEL AS WAGES

Uh oh.  Now they think they can legislate "fairness." 

When are working fucks gonna understand that life ain't fair!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

You do realize this is capital gains they are talking about?  If you can't make money on capital gains because it's taxed away, then you don't invest.  This will mean no capital formation and no new business formation.  Forever.

Then all the jobs will be in government, and all its funding will come from taxing the government employees.  The shortfall will be borrowed and no problem, except that this will be forever, and with no remaining millionaires, maybe government salaries will have to go up to create some.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:15 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

First good analysis I have ever seen out of you, I think.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:23 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Except he is totally wrong. "All funding will come from taxing the government employees"

Government employees don't pay tax, they can't because all that they have is tax money to begin with.

I believe their plan is to endlessly plunder the saps and sheep, or "the private sector" as they have always done

I do grant his idea some merit, only if you openly declare such "private sector" government agencies as Monsatan, Blackwater, war companies, 'private' jail companies WTF? etc as government agencies, then his idea will be true.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:44 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

How can you endlessly plunder people with finite wealth or finite tolerance combined with mobility?  This policy is so desperate because it has such a limited lifespan...  not unexpected (I suspect many of these measures will hit our shores soon enough, USA), but still goofy.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Don't worry, as part of the EU and euro break up France will be obligated to nationalize a lot of their industry, and so the state will have income that is not tax.      The state is all, will be all, can be all.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

And, likewise, if you can't make money on work because it's taxed away, you don't work?

Hey, if the return isn't sufficient, don't invest.  I'm sure that'll work for investors. 

But as for eliminating new business formation, I don't see capital gains taxes being the limiting factor, except perhaps to mega-corp businesses looking to IPO. 

But is that sector really where innovation takes place?  Or is it more a mechanism for rent-seeking?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:36 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Taxes and confiscations don't exist in a vacuum.  Where you have a developed bureaucracy that's complex enough to get to this point, you also have a bureaucracy that dictates a great many facets of every business...  new business formation was likely curbed by these policies long ago...  leading to larger debts/deficits as the idiots at the wheel misdiagnosed the problem (at best).  Now we're to the stage of confiscation to make up for all those lies (promises) along the way. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Sure, deck chairs.  It'll be interesting to see how the post-apocalypse world organizes . . . though I fear we'll be looking at a more brutal regime controlled by the usual suspects in nifty new costumes. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

This activity is worse than "Deck chairs"    It's like the crew of a sinking destroyer rolling depth charges down the stairs, and turning deck guns on the lifeboats.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Perpetual motion government. Unstoppable!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:37 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There is nothing more permanent than a Temporary Government program.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:29 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

If "investments" in companies were used for capital expansion, I would have to agree with you. But when was the last time you saw any real capital formation in a "first world" country?

Capital gains tax exemptions used to be about capital formation. Now its just about exempting stock value increases and dividends from taxes. While keeping real wealth concentrated in the hands of a few people.

And the money raised from those stock investments is rarely used to actually grow real capital in the corpoations' host countries, instead it is used to buy out and gut companies, to overpay executives, and to offshore jobs.

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:44 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It's primarily used as a mechanism to prop up nominal values of assets...  this is necessary to appease the voting public, even if its share of the pie is less than the money changers who have front run the savior and nestled themselves where they know backstops will be afforded.

This is also why price discovery is impossible...  if monetary prolifigacy wasn't enough, the regulatory environment is too volatile for much comfort...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:31 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

its true for small business, not true for transnationals. As France has a weak small business network unlike Germany, it will just mean a lot of small french entrepreneurs will move to UK. But as the transnationals who pull the french economy, (there are a lot of big french companies), based on their export performance will still be strong, and as they only pay around 8% corporate tax, capital gains tax will not have a big effect on their activity. Most of these companies have 60% of foreign ownership anyway. I don't know what the new capital gains tax does for foreign shareholders! Any way, everybody knows that taxes have to go up in first world. Our capital formation is totally screwed up until the financial sector purge occurs. As this will take time, its good to tax all corporates and sundry in the meantime. They have never been so rich for so little productive effort! Its skin off a nose that does nothing but speculate, its not skin worth saving.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Any way, everybody knows that taxes have to go up in first world.

 

... as it becomes third world.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:15 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

it already is debt wise.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Congrats you total idiot................

Who in the hell is going to stay in France and be raped, of they are even remotely wealthy?.They have been buying homes all over the EU to escape your MORONIC tax scam.

Good luck when the Muslims take over Parliment.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment Tony Rumjog
Tony Rumjog's picture

Does my EBT card work in Paris?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:56 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Only at the McDonalds on the Champs.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:31 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Je voudrais un royale avec fromage.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:28 | Link to Comment Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

It's un Royal Cheese.

As in Segolene.

 

Royal is masculine to match le hamburger. Cheese is English to sound cool 'n' American.

And they do sell beer there.

 

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:40 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I never understood the concern over gender....of words.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:30 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Yes, except there it stands for Euro Bus Terminal.

Bon Voyage!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment CreativeDestructor
CreativeDestructor's picture

forgot to add.... thats super bullish right?!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:55 | Link to Comment HaroldWang
HaroldWang's picture

And, just crossing, Finnish government reiterates opposition to ESM bonds.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

This is a great first step in accomplishing the long standing goals of Europe.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:59 | Link to Comment moonstears
moonstears's picture

Meaning collapse, Dr Krugman?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:00 | Link to Comment surf0766
surf0766's picture

I think he means global marxism

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:03 | Link to Comment moonstears
moonstears's picture

We all need to steal some liquid detergeant, for personal liquidity?(read this was happening some months ago at the WalWorlds)

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:32 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Too many penalty kicks.

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment XtraBullish
XtraBullish's picture

Coming SOON to an American neighbourhood near YOU!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment K_I_T_T_Y
K_I_T_T_Y's picture

help! they all wanna move to Switzerland! Like the Germans...

It's crowded here now...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment moonstears
moonstears's picture

And dollar strengthens on French Euro swaps into it in 3...2...1

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:58 | Link to Comment sudzee
sudzee's picture

75% of 0 = 0

45% of 0 = 0

No-one with money actually makes money.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 09:59 | Link to Comment cswjr
cswjr's picture

Never gonna happen.  It'd kill French club football.  There'd be rioting in the streets.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:07 | Link to Comment Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

We'll see which the plebs like the more: spending other people's money or watching Africans kick about a ball.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

"There'd be rioting in the streets."

France is not Spain!!!

(somebody had to say it)

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

They'll eventually be rioting in the streets either way.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:00 | Link to Comment achmachat
achmachat's picture

does this mean that if you earn 999.999 EUR, you pay 45% = 449,999.55 EUR tax... but if you earn 1,000,000 EUR, you pay 75% = 750,000?

 

in other words: it is strictly forbidden to earn lots of money...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:12 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I presume they have tax brackets...  which would mean it's a tax on marginal income...  but I wouldn't put anything past them...

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

 

in other words: it is strictly forbidden to earn lots of money......legally

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is called..what?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Something-d-o-o economics.

Voodoo economics.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:55 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

nope, but your marginal rate of retention diminishes; not verboten but slimmer add-on financial dikk length. 

You have to improve your maths. Only above 1Million you pay 75%. For all revenues below you pay 45%.

If you earn 1.2 million imposable, you pay 45% on the tranche above 150000- 1 million E + 75% on 0.20 million. Below 150000 E you pay on a sliding scale from 0%-45% based on diferent tranches. Its a gradual scale all the way up. Its NOT a flat rate.

So it may be that at 1.2 million you pay say 45-50% overall.

Typically in France only 5% declare revenues above 150000 euros. The biggest tax earner in France is VAT (value added tax; aka sales tax).  Next come coporates and finally personal income on an equal footing. Plus lastly, special tax on Petrol products.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:51 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

It's "critical thinking skills" such as this that make conservatives such a laughing stock.

It's more like "strictly forbidden to leave any income onshore or unsheltered". Best of luck with gettin' that GED.

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:00 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

That “raise taxes.. (on) banks” thing is sure to produce a lot of revenue.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:07 | Link to Comment K_I_T_T_Y
K_I_T_T_Y's picture

Luckily JPM is not a French company.... Uhhh, do the government give money to banks if they make losses?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:01 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

lol, somebody is finally pissed off. Give them hell, Garsoun'.

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Bahhahahaha. Good for France.

At least they are putting the austerity onto those who can afford it.

The tax on big companies will also help small businesses be more competitive.

Can't wait for the globalist owned MSM to start frothing at the mouth over this one.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:47 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Austerity doesn't mean higher taxes, it means much less spending, that includes govt.

The one thing that can truly help to grow the economy is lower taxes, especially on labour and investments.

The socialists taking revenge will not help the economy but it will make things worse for everyone.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"Opulence.....I has it..."

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:10 | Link to Comment moonstears
moonstears's picture

Long black markets in old France'!(Vive la noirs markets?) 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:53 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Vive les exchanges noires.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

Vivent les marchés noirs.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Why not, France like Germany has an annual wealth tax - in France it is ISF and in Germany Gewerbekapitalsteuer.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:53 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Also radically different inheritance law.

 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:09 | Link to Comment MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Here is the Obama/Biden plan for America so sit tight, listen to all the lies, let the media lie to you about everything possible and reelect these two.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:09 | Link to Comment kennard
kennard's picture

Hollande campaigns on a platform to stimulate growth and now lurches violemtly in the opposite direction.

At least we will now definitely see France hit bottom during Hollande's term.

This is like Air France flight 447: if you are losing altitude, push the stick down further. In the words of the captain as he awoke from his nap: "What the f**k are you doing?"

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
Oh here goes Margin Stanley and JP Morgan:
Morgan Stanley Got S&P to Inflate Ratings, Investors Say

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-02/morgan-stanley-pushed-s-p-to-bo...

 

and no story yet on Bloomberg but:

Breaking News FERC Probes Potential Power-Market Manipulation by JP Morgan
Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment crawl
crawl's picture

Savings and tax-deferred accounts are next for a one time per year tax.  Likely to be assessed at the highest unit/share pricing in the prior year.

France is volunteering to be the progressive tax state.  Now it remains to be seen how many wealthy people and corporations move out of France into lower tax countries within the EU.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Well, we see AirBus is opening a manufacturing center in Alabama.

Maybe its a start.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 12:06 | Link to Comment strayaway
strayaway's picture

I just figured out where to market Florida real estate. 

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:12 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

there will be no growth until there is finanacial reset in first world. In the meantime France has to clear the rot of deficit. This budget  reduces government deficit by 50 B (40 B planned + 10 more) in 2012, to bring deficit to 4.5% GDP, and then decrease 40B more in 2013 to bring defcit to 3% GDP in line with Maastricht end 2013.  This will probably turn to 50 B in 2013 as the projected 1% growth  for 2013 will more be like 0.5% which will add xtra 10 B burden in 2013.

SO we get fiscal hills in 2012 and 2013 to climb. The French are prepared. These new tax tranches do not have much effect except symbolically. Its psychological medicine to prepare France for five years of financial and fiscal reset. Thats what it'll take to turn this juggernaut around in a low growth environment. As nobody is there to bail out France or Germany, like has happened with Ireland since two years. Ireland is now in convalescence.

The big issue in Eurozone remains banksta debt; aka private sector debts, not the public sector debts (exluding Greece/Italy). This can bring down the whole ship in contagion mode. Nobody really knows what this means. But this is first world systemic risk. Merkel and FED hold these cards. If its financial armageddon then we all go very slim big time.

If its kicking the can it will happen down the road. In the meantime, Eurozone has to write up a whole new modus vivendi/operandi, post reset; as financial decoupling, not trade, with Pax Americana, has to come to continental Europe; maybe not to UK. 

How this financial decoupling occurs involves all five continents. So its a long haul project. The weight of USD in reserve money basket has to fall. The Euro probably will not exist in its current form in five years. Well we'll have to adapt to that.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:55 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

No concern that he might just be the French Herbert Hoover?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

The Frenchies are a strange bunch.

Last I knew (about 10 years ago), they didn't allow television advertizing that targeted children, either. 

What kind of freedom is that?  How are people supposed to learn the meaning of life, who they are and what their role is in the greater scheme of things?

No wonder they turn out so damn weird.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

advertising teaches children something? The meaning of life....

Lol, now that is weird! Conditioned reflex of MSM popcorn culture!

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:21 | Link to Comment CatoRenasci
CatoRenasci's picture

The frogs realized early on (~1790) that liberty - equality - fraternity were ultimately incompatible. The decided that liberty was expendable. So, they have enforced "fraternity" (the Germans call it Gleichschaltung) and work for equality of result (except for the animals who in charge of the other animals).

Other than the wine and the food (the women are overrated), there is nothing admirable about the French.  Western civlization would not be poorer had the French vanished off the face of the earth in 1788.

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Other than the wine and the food (the women are overrated), there is nothing admirable about the French.  Western civlization would not be poorer had the French vanished off the face of the earth in 1788.

 

Except for Bardot, Bizet and Baudelaire, what?

Tue, 07/03/2012 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Doug_Canada
Doug_Canada's picture

What they end up as is happy. 

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