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FT Report That Greek Bailout Package On The Verge Of Collapse After Surge In Greek Funding Needs Sends Stocks, Euro Plunging From Highs
Wondering what just caused the market to slump? Take a wild guess. That's right - Greece. Minutes after Greece passed a vote in which it promised to promise to promise to consider collecting 1998-1999 taxes (even as all of its tax collectors are about to go on permanent strike), the FT was breaking news that while the Troika was "bailing out" Greece in the past years, the country was spending itself into an even greater oblivion. As a result, the terms of the July 21 Second Greek Bailout will most certainly need to be renegotiated, with banks having to take even greater write downs on the bond exchange, and with far more capital having to be injected into the country. The result is the France and the ECB are panicking because as we all know, any additional write downs will expose just how undercapitalized French banks already are (no need to even mention the world's most toxic hedge fund: Trichet et Cie). Should this story pick up traction, look for Europe to open limit down again tomorrow.
A split has opened in the eurozone over the terms of Greece’s second €109bn bail-out with as many as seven of the bloc’s 17 members arguing for private creditors to swallow a bigger writedown on their Greek bond holdings, according to senior European officials.
The divisions have emerged amid mounting concerns that Athens’ funding needs are much bigger than estimated just two months ago. They threaten to unpick a painfully negotiated deal reached with private sector bond holders in July.
While hardliners in Germany and the Netherlands are leading the calls for more losses to be imposed on the private sector, France and the European Central Bank are fiercely resisting any such move. They fear re-opening the bond deal could spark renewed selling of shares in European banks, which have significant holdings of Greek and other peripheral eurozone debt.
Because of the recent economic downturn and Greece’s slow implementation of austerity measures, officials estimate Athens’ funding needs over the next three years have grown beyond the €172bn forecast this summer. The scale of the shortfall will be determined by international lenders over the next few weeks.
So let's get this straight: the funding hole was €109 billion two months ago, and it is €172 billion, an incremental diferential of €63 billion in two months, or €360 billion annualized.
...Pardon us, while we...
HA HA HA HA HA HA
We apologize but...
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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have the lenders take a 100% haircut, forgive all of Greece's debt. Would they be able to access credit markets? probably not. They're still running large deficits, their revenues are shrinking and good luck collecting those back taxes.
The lenders cannot take this kind of hit. They will crash.
Guess the dead cat bounce rally is over
Any questions as to why investors are leaving the market in droves. They are so fed up with this.
Escalator up, elevator down.
Oil on the Gulf watch Trans Ocean
This sounds good for a 400 point rally tommorow on North American Markets.
another hour and we'd be finishing red
If Greece has 20 billion of hidden debt, imagine what the big countries are hiding? Something tells me that Greece is going to have to sign a non disclosure deal when they leave the league.
Sounds like a job for anonymous!
There was article on Bloomberg about Germany hiding something like 5T. Ok assuming the figure was exaggerated count it for 3 to 2T. They are still fucked.
Wait, this is bullish, too, right?
its been a few days, we need another Rule 48 morning tomorrow
We're now only +200 gap open, or Rule 48 open...sick.
For crying out f-n loud! I can't take anymore. mtv,vh1, bravo, as the world turns, the days of our lives,etc..., don't have shit on the real life financial drama that are the governments and msm.
Tyler, why have you not covered the current wall st protests more than just
the initial story you posted?
the 3 previous Black Candle days at this level within the past 30 sessions have left the DOW at least 4% lower the next 2 sessions...
Today will be the 4th... "Previous performance is no guarantee of future returns"! :-) But is interesting to follow and see if this repeats...
I'll laugh hard if they close flat.
Now ,why would the ECB and French Bank"fiercly resist" a greater haircut for the private sector. ?
Is that not what capitalism is all about.
Did they (the private sector)share thier gains....???
Fuck off and die allready,Banksters....
Woo look at the market go. Just like sledding down a hill in winter. Sitting on the sidelines, just sold my XOM for a small profit.
AU and AG falling, it's plain now these two move with the markets.
Ok, last 2 min 100 points up to go. Even crashes are not what they used to be (when only correcting an insane upmove ;)
people talk about reaching debt saturation.. but society is being totally ass fucked with lie saturation. when did a bank or any business or institution or politician ... last tell the truth.. The upcoming collapse needs to be massive if only to uncover the depth and fraud we have all been subjected to.. As they say we have seen nothing yet..bring it on
....and this doesn't even mention the fact the the number 1 judge in Germany has already said 'Nein!' to EFSF expansion.
Wake up, silly banksters. You forgot to pay off the jugde. Doh!
Fed is buying in these last 5 min. Must...close....up....1%.
Saw a twit by Tyler re Felix Salmon who mentions ZH no less than 3 times in some hit piece on Rastani. Ironic that Felix has been in the blogging game for probably 3 times as long as ZH has been in business. Even more ironic he probably gets as many hits in amonth as ZH gets in any 8 hour period. Sorry Felix - no link today, you putz.
zerohedge: Felix Salmon proffers his traditionally deeply philosophical and always insightful view on Alessio Rastani
http://bit.ly/qlgNE0
The funding 'hole' was 109 billion a month ago, today 172 billion, or in other words growing exponentially by about 60 billion per month....oh Im sure Germans will be HAPPY to fill that sinkhole!
"promised to promise to promise to consider"
This is getting really complicated.
Hmm meltup at the end. This market is impossible. On the bright side, investment banks are firing people en masse and having to cut back some of their trading desks. Very healthy for the world.
dunno, I'm an amateur but figure those are BOC orders or ETF rebalancing or something.
So let me see if I understand this...
This week, world markets are driven by Steve Liesman and the Financial Times?
Yeah. No need to worry anymore. It's all under control.
Correct - next week there will be a mutual of Omaha....errr..Oracle of Omaha sighting where he will be quoted as saying he is glad he got into BAC and the thing will levitate up without any surrounding evidence. LONG JAWWBONES are in these days, dont cha' know
Crappy gold stocks always get smoked harder than any other sector during selloffs.
Meanwhile, the "worst of the worst" crap like Zales goes up 21%.
Zales has gold (kinda)!
Zales just had a big bead trunk show. Apparently it was all the rage with 400lb housewives.
Zales is garbage. They pay managers less than $10 an hour and the best "gold" they sell is 18k electroplated brass.
Suck it robo
Zales just had a big bead trunk show. Apparently it was all the rage with 400lb housewives.
Zales is garbage. They pay managers less than $10 an hour and the best "gold" they sell is 18k electroplated brass.
Suck it robo
This is why people calls this rally a "short covering rally". Crappier the better.
RobotTrader went to Jared's I thought ?
"Honey, we need Another Euro Mastercard or the utility company is gonna turn out the lights!" :)
Hopefully the Greek people will prevent the Greek gov from collecting any taxes so that the whole EU fancy faire collapses (after which the US) and we can finaly start with a clean sheet.
Debtonation, Desperation: Greece tax tension at breaking point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7HrAXhwEQU
Crisis-weary Greeks have vowed to ramp up protests in response to additional austerity measures announced last week, including the layoff of at least 30,000 civil servants.
Two general strikes have been called by the country’s biggest labour unions for October 5 and October 19.
From: Greek PM In Crunch Debt Talks With Germany http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-PM-In-Crunch-Debt-Talks-skynews-1...
Earlier today FT reported that Greece couldn't collect taxes BECAUSE THEIR TAX OFFICE WAS OUT OF INK AND THEY COULDN'T PRINT CLAIMS. And now this, 63 BILLION hole in 2 months!
Ahahahahahaa (breathe) aahahahahaaa (breathe) aahahahahaa!
This is beyond surreal and it would be even funnier if it wasn't my and my fellow taxpayers' money that's beeing looted by the eurofanatics in their efforts to keep their dead-born Shangri La alive for a few more months.
Have a look here for oil and copper price prediction chart in 2011-2012:
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/comment/61397#comment-61397
It's starting to look like if you control the Greek situation, you control the markets. Why would any insider want this to end?
No shit. As an insider, you could fund Greece and then some just by front-running your own statements.
Only the market will stop the insanity by tanking all bank stocks in sight and tanking all related govt bonds and currencies while rallying gold. If the politicians are too corrupt to act , thankfully the market will slaughter them. Cant wait.
I guess at this point, the next rumor will be "Greece found geese that will shit golden turds" and Steve LIESman will rush out to say it is breaking news.
Really, what is the big deal here? It's not like we haven't been watch theatre of the absurd for XXX months. This whole steaming turd reminds me of SNL when Generalissimo Franscisco Franco dies in the 70s. Every week they would have a skit on that he was dead, or not dead, but then dead again, but no.....he's not dead.
This is just a rerun, only funnier. I'm with the guy on the BBC, bring on the collapse.
This FT article is nothing new. Why is anybody surprised that 17 socialist governments cannot agree on anything? Having said that, I am loving this volatiliy.
Northwest Territorial Mint is telling all purchasers of PM's to expect
delivery in three to six months from receipt of payment.
FRAUD, monkeys!
not true
Delivery
Please allow 8 to 10 weeks for delivery.
Can Greece just f*ckin default already?
What I want ot know is HOW GREECE Survided before joing to EU? Did they had a stach of gold?!
What I want ot know is HOW GREECE Survided before joing to EU? Did they had a stach of gold?!
My simple answer is: They DID survive before they joined the EU.
Lower standard of living. After Goldman showed them how to cook the books, they doubled their salaries and got lots of other bennies paid for by loans. Biggest source of income for many is renting to tourists which they do by arranging deposits in countries where it won't get reported as taxable income to Greek government - not that anything does anyway.
What no "Closed WELL OFF THE HIGHS" headlines in MSM? giving up 150 pts on the DOW during last hour of session is considered "paring gains" too funny
i'm glad MSM media don't pare my potatoes....i'd be left with one skinny fry
I thought the funding they determined Greece needed during the second baiout was the 172 figure, with 109 coming from the bailout and the rest coming from the 21% haircut and other crap? And now they are not sure how much more the shortfall is than 172, but it is more, and they are figuring that out over the coming weeks. I can't wait to hear what they come up with this time.
I don't really get what is the big deal. I mean if you're going to print trillions what difference does a 50, 60 or 100 Billion make? It is just a bunch of fucking bureaucrats arguing with each other but the end result will be what Geithner told them to do the other day.
I guess the Germans just don't feel as comfortable with large positions, while the Americans do.
tylers posts turn into great jokes 2 tell ppl out of the bus......hilarous stuff
All I can say is follow the credit mkts.. stocks are finished for a decade or two.. no reason to even own one. its Las Vegas w/out the perks and entertainment.
Ah hell, lots of entertainment - you just have to be an andrenaline
junkie (and have real skin in the game).
Nobody for President. We already have one of those. And it's turning out not to be a good idea.
Shit. I didn't know Greece is that big in terms of its debt load. What about the shit load for California? It's never been the real issues that they keep talking about in public. Am I a fool or what?
Right or what about the $2 trillion we borrowed from China to fight wars? We seem to have spent more just on gas for the military than Greece's total debt. The state I live in is going bankrupt too. It seems that the MSM just picks some small story to whip up hysteria about for a few weeks and then moves on to another one when people get tired of it. Maybe banker types manipulating them to make profits on their positions. Not difficult with low caliber of reporter present print revenue results in.
That may have been then, but now,... my last two orders I was flat out told three months at the soonest for delivery. Somebody else must have been buying the f'n dip with me. What great fun!
Popcorn is gone, fuck Greece. We know the endgame.
Back of the napkin math... Population of Greece estimated at 10,760,136 as of July 2011. Divided by 63 BILLION. What the heck is going on here? Something just does not add up!
Just let them fail, and everyone exposed.
No more bail outs, no more bullshit.
********THIS IS "THE BIG ONE"********
Pluto just came off station (while they were "negotiating" this fraud)...it's over, time to head for the bunker.
Finally, some rational analysis around here.
...miec jeszcze cien nadziei
I really hope that all the smart assholes responsible for producing this shit
are already zipping-up their shit-diving suits to clean up this whole mess in the good old fashioned way
and the only thing that shall be negotiated is whether they will be allowed to use a snorkel
because we are all tired of the "Let's make some shit to cover the shithole" ideas.
Nadzieja matka glupich :)
dzieks :)
nice to hear the mothers tongue...
tez tak mysle
wszyscy mamy przesrane
The bailout money is going to the creditors. Greece does not need that much money to pay salaries and pensions. In fact, the current government has been neglecting to pay people, and many have complained that they have not gotten their salaries for months.
Germany slams 'stupid' US plans to boost EU rescue fund8:51PM BST 27 Sep 2011
From Ambrose:
German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble said it would be a folly to boost the EU's bail-out machinery (EFSF) beyond its €440bn lending limit by deploying leverage to up to €2 trillion, perhaps by raising funds from the European Central Bank.
"I don't understand how anyone in the European Commission can have such a stupid idea. The result would be to endanger the AAA sovereign debt ratings of other member states. It makes no sense," he said.
Mr Schauble told Washington to mind its own businesss after President Barack Obama rebuked EU leaders for failing to recapitalise banks and allowing the debt crisis to escalate to the point where it is "scaring the world".
"It's always much easier to give advice to others than to decide for yourself. I am well prepared to give advice to the US government," he said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8793010/Germany-slams-stupid-US-plans-to-boost-EU-rescue-fund.html
= = = = =
FINALLY, someone in power gets it. Well done Herr Schauble and thank you...
Mr. Schauble makes a lot of sense. I wish he had been the US Treasury secretary when the TARP bailouts were being considered.
However, there seems to be a complete disconnect between what he says and what Merkel says. It is so bizarre. Almost as if Germany was using a "good cop, bad cop" strategy when negotiating with the other European states.
The very hopeful bit is that the Frau Kanzlerin actually listens to Herr Schauble and lets him do his job. She also very much respects him and his skills - she defers to him on economics.
If she were to colude with the euro "elite" behind closed doors against his and the majority of Germans' wishes, and tried to put Germany in hawk to the tune of many hundreds of billions to cover euroland, he would come out publcily against such an idea. It would cause the government to fall, and fall quickly were that the case...
There would be unimaginable backlash from throughout Germany against Merkel and the CDU, were such a thing to happen...
He's a very close number two in the eyes of the Germans. His ideas and opinions carry massive weight there. Merkel would be literally playing with fire and her entire political career if she seriously contradicted Schauble publcly...
The most important bit is the follows:
"Analysts say the Troika will have to approve the next €8bn tranche of aid for Athens in October whether or not Greece has complied fully with the terms. It cannot risk a showdown before Europe's banks have beefed up their capital base, or before the EFSF is fully equipped to defend the rest of the system.
Like a forced marriage, Europe and Greece must kiss and pretend" .
In other words, the ball is in Mr. Market's court:)
The Greek city of Corinth managed to collect a total of 18,000 euros in VAT in the last six months. That's from a city with a population of 36,555. Who is kidding whom here?
oversold markets went to a panic meltup to sell off. European open lost the plot completely. Good for finding upper ranges to either sell on rallies or short in the futures market.
Friday IMO when markets correct on the downside again, this time smashing those supports and ending into lower ranges.
Gotta love those Greeks. They figured out how to scam all of Europe for a few decades. Not they've got the Germans paying the bill. After the default is gone and forgotten, I'm sure they'll start the whole thing over again.
Ingenious really. They've figured out a way to get reparations for WW II from Germany, and everyone else thinks these are "bailouts".
Wondering what just caused the market to slump? Take a wild guess. That's right - Greece.
That was my 1st guess too.. these "wild guesses" are getting a well worn path, predictable even!
the funding hole was €109 billion two months ago, and it is €172 billion, an incremental diferential of €63 billion in two months
to think the Europeans are as crap as that twat across the pond, Timothy Gotnogringos... where do they get these Treasury accountants trained, clown school? ...uh, what this wild guess is bang on too!
No worries Greek Govt, the private sector (and country and Europeans) you screwed with Marxist-Socialism-Unionism for decades will come to your rescue ...Hahahahaha
It really seems to me that the politicians are exhausted of ideas and are just throwing stuff on to the airwaves in order to “crowd source” the reaction of bankers and economists. It is surely cheaper than hiring those bankers and economists to conduct war games on the ideas, and probably a lot faster, but is it really anyway to run an economy of 500 million people?
Mr Market has made it clear what is needed, and anything short, will be, er short.
Shaving the PIIGs. Thats the whole purpose of this excersise. Whether the Germans know it or not Germany is forging ahead with plans of its own for a European superstate of 10 nations. Mark 12:30. READ YOUR BIBLES!