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G-20 Demands German Gold To Keep Eurozone Intact; German Central Bank Tells G-20 Where To Stick It
Going back to the annals of brokeback Europe, we learn that gold after all is money, after the G-20 demanded that EFSF (of €1 trillion "stability fund" yet can't raise €3 billion fame) be backstopped by none other than German gold. Per Reuters, "The Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAS) reported that Bundesbank reserves -- including foreign currency and gold -- would be used to increase Germany's contribution to the crisis fund, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) by more than 15 billion euros ($20 billion)." And who would be the recipient of said transfer? Why none other than the most insolvent of global hedge funds, the European Central Bank.
Also, in addition to gold, the ECB had set its eyes on that other "fake" currency that DSK had succeded in protecting throughout his tenure, all his other undoings aside, "The Welt am Sonntag newspaper, citing similar plans, said 15 billion euros would come from special drawing rights (SDR) that the Bundesbank holds." Naturally, these discoveries prompted a prompt and furious rebuttal from the very top of German authorities: "Germany's gold and foreign exchange reserves, which the Bundesbank administers, were not at any point up for discussion at the G20 summit in Cannes," government spokesman Steffen Seibert said. The WSJ adds, "A plan to have the International Monetary Fund issue its special currency as a powerful weapon in Europe's efforts to contain the widening euro-zone debt crisis was blocked by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, according to a report in a German newspaper."
There are three observations to be made here: i) when it comes to rescuing insolvent countries, Germany is delighted to sacrifice euros at the altar of the 50-some year old PIIGS retirement age; ask for its gold however, and things get ugly; ii) the Eurozone, the ECB and the EFSF are dead broke, insolvent and/or have zero credibility in the capital markets, and they know it and iii) due to the joint and several nature of the ECB's capital calls, while Germany may have had enough leverage to tell G-20 to shove it, the next countries in line, especially those which are already insolvent and will rely on the EFSF for their existence once the ECB's SMP program is finished, may not be that lucky, and in exchange for remaining in the eurozone, the forfeit could well be their gold.
WSJ brings details on how German SDRs would be used as a temporary (temporary as in European financial short selling ban, and temporary reduction of initial margin to maintenance for everyone to appease MF Global clients) backstop for Europe:
The idea of using SDRs to fight financial contagion isn't new. When the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008 unleashed a financial crisis, the G-20 in 2009 approved a $250 billion SDR allocation to help backstop efforts to fight the spread of the crisis.
The European Central Bank has been buying euro-zone bonds in an effort to keep borrowing costs of weakened members from exploding. But the ECB's efforts are considered by some experts to be outside of its central mandate to maintain price stability. And the ECB has said that its special measures - buying euro-zone debt -- should be temporary and limited in scope. That is another reason why some people are advocating the IMF play a greater role in propping up weakened euro-zone members and become the lender of last resort.
Speaking to reporters at the close of the Cannes summit, Merkel indicated that G-20 leaders agreed in principle that the IMF and EFSF could work together, but the summit could not agree on any specifics.
"We have an interesting process ahead of us and the discussion is not yet concluded," she said.
Reuters brings more on the the logical German reaction to the EFSF and ECB's extortion attempts:
"We know this plan and we reject it," a Bundesbank spokesman said.
Seibert said several partners had raised the question in Cannes whether SDRs could be used to strengthen the EFSF but Germany had rejected this plan and discussions at Monday's Eurogroup on Monday would not discuss this topic.
The newspapers had said the issue was taken off the agenda at the G20 following Bundesbank opposition but that it would be debated on Monday at a Eurogroup meeting of euro zone finance ministers.
Why will it be debated? Because when at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Germany may be crossed off the list, but here is who is next in order of appearance. Sooner or later, Europe will stumble on that one "leader" whose gold is less valuable than their political stability, because after all, a "united", "EMUed" Europe has the biggest MAD trump card of all.
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Depends who's chasing you with a pitchfork.
Sure, pitchforks are a bith, I agree.
If the SHTF re: Israel/Iran, Netanyahu et al will be on the first plane to the USA.
The end-game for the Middle-East is:
1. Iran has the bomb, as does Israel, so we'll have peace.
OR
2. We will stop peace from happening, nuke Iran, for which in return China and Russia nuke Israel, but they might not. I'm sure USrael is willing to try this game, as only Russian Jews live in Israel and no "real" Jew cares about them, so the option to have Israel nuked is OK for "real" Jews as their promised land is the USA anyway.
I'm willing to bet on outcome one, but considering the level of psychopathy of TPTB outcome two IS an option.
Well I certainly don't agree that there are only Russian Jews in Israel, and they don't matter. I know enough Jews to know they are almost all avid zionists, at some level, who regard Israel as their real homeland and identity, and a clear refuge in times of international conflict.
That is basically what they all think, in my experience.
I don't know why you'd assume they wouldn't really care much if Israel was nuked. On the contrary, they would go totally crazy for revenge.
And I'm 100% satisfied they've planned to respond to just that sort of possible development, in effective and meaningful destructive ways.
Russia certainly would expect them to do this and most likely believes they would, so they will not want to attack Israel (unless it were absolutely essential).
And I seriously doubt China would be even slightly interested in attacking Israel with a nuke under almost any conceivable circumstances.
I expect the Israeli's feel fairly confident of this. What they aren't confident of is the dynamic if Iran gets a nuclear arsenal. Then Israel may find itself in a multi-decade border-war that it can't win, nor fully stop.
(and Russia and China cetainly could materially support that in very many ways ... this really matters)
The long term aim of the Arabs has been to make living in Israel an absolutely unbearable hell for the Jews, so that, as you said, ... they elect to move all it off-shore again, over time.
That's funny. "Hell for the Jews"? Have you ever been to Israel, Element?
The May 1967 border space is cool.
I said ... "LONG-TERM AIM" ... it's a work in progress ... just ask Hamas.
I've met plenty of young Jews who come out of the IDF and move to Australia, and said stuff to me like, " I wanted to get as far as possible away from the madness of the Middle East and Australia was about as far away as you could get so this is where I came". A former IDF navy special forces guy said that to me, but I've heard that same sentiment in various forms.
In Israel you have massive levels of suicide (especially in the young), massive organised criminal gangs, massive drug dealing and use, deep poverty, religious extremism of the most poisonous variety, staggering levels of racism, profound violence, intimidation and insecurity, discrimination and injustice in every form and the constant threat of attack, war and economic damage - oh, and conscription.
Young soldiers, both male and female often give up on the misery of it all and put a round though their own head. A girlfriend told me of two friends of hers who did it in an army base latrine.
Native born 2nd and 3rd gen Israelis, who are skilled, and educated with a realistic outlook are leaving Israel in droves for the West - because they don't want to live there anymore, or raise a family within that hell hole, or have their own children go through all that shit.
It's mostly brainwashed naive Zionista-bots who still don't know the real score, how it really works in Zion, who migrate to Israel to live and raise a family. They will learn the hard way.
There's a reason why the Israeli's want the Arabs bombed ... because they make life hell, to try and stay there ... Just ask anyone near Hebron or Gaza or the Lebanon border.
The Israelis have made two fatal mistakes
1. They havent killed enough arabs
2. They havent killed enough of their own who believe peace with arabs is possible
"...they have no fear of pushing the buttons" ??
Cranky, this is juvenile brag-fear-talk and you should know...
you are completely full of shit. WE are the ones most likely to push the button
Not in 1962 you weren't. Nuclear deterence stopped the US in its warmongering tracks then, even as it was actively scheduling strikes to bomb and invade Cuba. And deterrence still does that now.
In-your-face nukes were the key to make the US backdown and call off its already planned and scheduled attack. A pretty good result. The Russians knew the US only understood it was on a loser when it had a gun pointed at its head.
So Russia (and China) invested heavily in heavy mobile launchers and missiles that maintain an ability to put up an EMP barage like a sort of nuclear flack, in space, that can collapse a Western IADs, and it's senors, comms, sats, nav, and C4I, all over Europe, the central Pacific basin and North America. It all goes off-line - some fore a few hours of days, some permanently (not to mention what also happenes to the civil systems and population's needs, and rule of 'law'),
They have enough launchers and missiles and certainly enough warheads to maintain a relentless EMP barage, for days, weeks, or even months, which renders the US and NATO defenceless against a full blooded nuclear bombardment. THAAD and regional missile defence systems will be next to useless, in that EMP release environment, so the West is open to actual massive nuclear bombardment at any moment if it escalates further.
As long as Russia and China can do that the USSA, and NATO, the US white hut will NOT dare to push the button.
So the US is as a result NOT more likely to push the button.
It's actually become much less likely to push the button in any REAL war, or to engage in any REAL war, than it was back in 1962.
That's why everything after that was a proxy war ... never a direct conflict between sates with nukes ...
Well, until now ... where the US is bombing Pakistani territory because it believes the Pakis can't or won't do shit about it, so the US is free to kick them about with impunity.
They're virtually goading Pakistan to detonate a nuke ... and they probably will ... but they'll wait until Iran has a few as well ... So that the US finally gets the message: FUCK OFF USSR AND NATO
The Pakis have been building missiles that give them the capacity to launch a regional EMP barage ... what do they have to lose? Pakistan and Tehran also know that Washington's crooks and murderers only understand a gun pointed at their head.
Excellent analysis overall element. Don't forget USA/Israel's Watchdog/all around dirty trickster, India. India's own FBI+CIA+NEFARIOUS is called Research and Analysis Wing and they have their fingers deeep into Pak/Afghanistan/Africa.
ORI
I ran when I shaw you!
Tradition.
In fact, you can eat gold. Look up recipes that call for gold leaf.
Now try spicing up your spaghetti bolognese with some shredded Bernanke bucks. I bet it doesn't taste half as good.
All roads lead back to Iran If the Euro falls then So Does Iran. ALL Iranian Oil is sold in Euro's regardless of where the oil is exported to.
I can t help think this is another ploy by America / Israel to topple Iran force Germany out of Euro Colapse currency blame Greece etc.
yeah..especially since its better than peas...
The thinking is they can slice it easier when times get tough. Sliced bread is what were looking for. A bar of gold is maybe worth a loaf of bread to a starving man, unless it's his familiy's dinner.
G20 are a bunch of hacks always looking for OPM......
Why would anyone want an inedible relic?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://fashionbombdaily.com/wp-conte...
Well ya know tradition and all ... its hard to break away from them y know? ;)
Now that is interesting...
Demanding Germany's gold will guarantee Germany's exit from the Euro.
Germany's gold? Or the NYFRB's gold?
Yeah that's right. Wonder when the first German gun boats are due in NY Harbor.
Hugo isn't stupid! Marked! But not stupid!
Regards,
Cooter
Hugo Boss is a smart German company. Wish I could own some of zat ztock. Actually, it looks ripe for a short. Which probably means I should own it.
Possession is 99% of ownership. Maybe it's 100% in the case of gold.
This is exactly what I have been saying to everyone (especially Spitzer here on ZH) about Europe's "gold horde" not belonging to the ECB. Europe does not have gold, Germany has gold, France has gold, Netherlands has gold...
Does anyone think Nationalism will become less severe in Europe in the coming months and years?
Does anyone think Nationalism will become less severe in Europe in the coming months and years?
Russia seeks to be the vanguard on this one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057649/Nazi-saluting-nationalis...
Putin for Emperor of the World...start with "Czar of ALL THE RUSSIAS" like the good ol' days, and take it from there......
thank god somebody is waking up
show me the fucking diversity in all the places that those offended by this come from.
its starting to look more and more like germany leaving is going to be the end game ...
Germany bails and buddies up with Russia.
It's done except for the prom dance ... can't keep those young kids off each other after all ...
Regards,
Cooter
the slavs are the only white people left not groveling
Stunning how ignorant the elite act in the face of mathematical impossibility
this is part of the show, i guess some people would call it a soap opera but i enjoy eating popcorn. The end game is already in place just a matter of timing
Instead, they rely on the ignorance of the masses to enable their control of the ponzi pyramid.
Every day more sheep wake up to the reality of broken markets, and opt out. Soon, very soon in terms of social and political systems now in place the sheep will realise the only winning move is not to play the game. And then the days of the current ponzi will be numbered.
Mene Mene Tekel Parsin bitchez.
Great Observation, cutting to the chase. (LOL Chase as in JP ... never mind) The math of the CDOwhatever for WhateverPurposeinfinity still doesn't work.
The deal will not do what they want it to do.
They don't function like that.
No matter which one of the functional options they're looking at.
Kudos to their adviser JP Morgan for not telling them that and stopping the advisory and legal fee clock. Fucking incredible arrogant attitude of the politicians to figure they've some painless reasonable way out of this shit.
This is why exchange rates were made to be flexible if of a fiat nature. Period.
no harm in asking..
on another note, the cat is out of the bag... now all the countries will have the light bulb flash...ding...gold..maybe there's something to holding it.
+ 1000
The reason why americans rank so low in mathematics is because it's by design to keep them from doing the math and arriving at the same conclusion. A huge revolution would happen...
Same reason they do very little teaching in U.S. public schools...errr..i meant to say 'Government sponsored indoctrination centers.'
If they knew what they were doing they would go after the German Spam.
Why bother with gold???
A Critical Call to Action #OccupyWallStreet
Chris Greene explains why OWS is the best chance we have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R4dujufNj_Q
Supporting prior video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dD4MP23pK0
My disagreement with this is limited.
I am involved in my local occupy movement thru participation and support and I see it as a second wave towards a -for lack of a better word- 'real' revolution. It's a great chance to engage discussion and educate those who haven't peeled back the layers of corporatism to reveal the heavily manipulated monetary system and it's 'handlers.' I see it as a stepping stone to a global awakening.
Our beginning is near.
It's interesting to watch the return of gold to it's rightful position of the ultimate store of value. It's slowly dawning on the paper pushers that more debt will not fix a damn thing. Got physical?
"gold is money and nothing else" JP Morgan
Oh, the smart ones knew all along. They just dont care.
Grabbing hands, grab all they can.
Regards,
Cooter
Everything counts, in large amounts
You guys are good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t-gK-9EIq4
dont forget silver bitchez
Wehl Well Weh heh heh hell... If this is the case then gold is seriously under-valued.
Observation of the Year.
Central Banks use gold to backstop the Fiat Ponzi? Whaaat?
He said gold was seriously undervalued, and he's seriously right.
It ain't gonna be used to backstop the "Fiat Ponzi" though. It can't be. The market won't allow it.
Gold simply needs to be valued freely, and continuously, by the market and everything you don't like about fiat currency will be corrected. The problem has never been the currencies, fiat or otherwise, it has been the intentional undervaluation of gold. A traditional gold standard is no better, because the currency is still pegged to gold, so the true value of gold cannot be found. How could it be when it's fixed???
Let TPTB reinstate a fixed gold standard (if they actually could), and you've gained nothing but more of the same.
Physical gold, unencumbered by paper claims, needs to float. In this role it supplies objective valuation to everything else, including fiat currency.
Imagine that, actually knowing the true value of every fiat currency, all the time.
What a novel idea.
That's just what a free floating market valuation of unencumbered physical gold gives, and thus exactly why it has been stymied for so long.
For the most part they are using market mechanisms and voluntary contracts to do it though (fractional reserves and all the other kinds of paper weren't created by government, but by greed and free choice). Are you saying regulation of gold trading is necessary? :)
Paper gold may not be created directly by government, but there is no doubt it is created with their blessing.
They derive a large part of their power (which is to say access to value created by others) via monetary inflation, which is only possible in an environment in which the value of gold is lower than would be in a free market. Even during the gold standard (which was really little more than the same misapproriation of the value of others paraded under the banner of gold ie. a good marketing ploy) the value of gold was fixed. The value which should be stored in gold is misappropriated by the issuance of more of the currency which gold is fixed to. This new currency (apart from diluting existing holders) is then predominantly used to purchase govt debt.
The system can only be in balance when the value of gold floats. Elemental gold is simply the vehicle best suited to be the counterweight to the monetary system. When you want to rig the monetary system, you must stymie the function of gold. See these for a clearer description: It's the Value, Stupid, A Freegold Standard.
Regulation is not necessary. Critical mass in the decoupling of paper and physical gold will be achieved by the market, regardless of any regulations, sooner or later. It is the free market in which gold finds its function, not through regulation, but through the free choice of the market's participants.
Until then, physical gold is available at the margin for a steep discount.
Uhuh, and then people will forget about the past and chase after interest for their deposited gold ... just like they ALWAYS have.
Fractional reserves have just as much historic inertia as gold currency.
What are you talking about? Interest on their deposited gold? When did this ever happen?
Gold currency? I'm talking about gold acting as the premium store of value asset, thus valuing currency.
When did interest payments start on deposited gold? When the gold depositories started having fractional reserves. It has always happened, it always will ... physical gold will turn into paper gold as greed seeks interest.
Mr. Hendrix: I think you have it backwards. They are using the Real Paper Money to back up the value of the "incidental
metals. Well, then again, maybe, it's the other way around. Oh well, doesn't matter. As long as we all have....
F A I T H I N T H E S Y S T E M !!!
(Oh, yea....is a Fiat Ponzi a new convertible? Does it come in a gold color, or silver, by chance?)
haha!
Among the proverbial "them" yes.
Among us? Not much of a contribution.
Yea...load up at the bargain basement prices while the sellers still accept fiat.
But seriously...would any here at ZH SELL their "in possession" PM's? I sure as hell would not. I have been loading up on .22 LR for barter, as well as toilet paper, but that is another story.
Ya think?
Anyone know what the current specultions circulating are on the 'real' value?
I count my savings in ounces of monetary metals... for copper, pounds.
Things are getting desperate ..
Capt'n, The ship is starting to break up
Oder Das Boot
was tut man, wenn der Schiff sinkt?
man schwimmt, oder ersauft
The G-20 Demands of Germany to Post It's Gold as Collateral for the ESEFerwhateverthefuckitis.
This is better than QEfuckingforever with the commodity margin relaxation
Now that's Sacrifice.
Maybe even Social Justice.
Yeah, Social Fucking Justice.
The rich rob from their poor to give to the poor's rich.
Fucking Brilliant.
Hey Deutscheland. How's that socialism workin' out for ya these days?
Das ist heiß
You guys are always talking the "billion" and "trillion" talk - how about we adopt the old and tarnished British programme:
If we do it this way, no-one is going to notice anything untoward......
Are you out of your mind?! ... you may be right but merkans don't do numeracy anymore ... you want to go and do that to them!? ... what a bloody trouble maker, can't you just play-along ... like the rest of us do? It's easy, you put a comma after three zeros, you put the month in front of the day, and you replace your 's' with z (and it's a zee, not a zed).
Don't confuse them.
Hey, I got my 100T Zim note on ebay for $3.50. Lots of zeros. Looks pretty too! It has a cow on it, and some rocks. Very Artistic!
I carried mine with me and would pull it out just to get a reaction from someone so I could explain why it was -except for numismatic value- worthless!
Personally, I think it's an ugly currency!
My faves are the walking liberty half dollar and Morgan dollars...my kids like Chinese pandas.
Why do these idiots at the ECB think Germans are like Italians and Greeks. No offense to any nationality but the Germans are not insolvent as Greece and Italy and what mindset is it that thinks Germany would give up the only currency it knows is real.
I believe the people of Germany are starting to rebel against what these Finance Ministers are trying to do. The German people have been to hell and back, are now successful, smart and aware of what all the pigs are trying to do. If Angela thinks she can continue to pull the wool over the eyes of these good people, forget it. I wish we could get this over with, crush this broken, corrupt system, pay the piper and just start over so our kids will have something long term.
But no, this will go on in Europe for months until all the pieces of the puzzle fit and the finished product is one giant explosion.
Then, after Europe, finally, the main feature presentation on the wide screen in digital sound will begin. We are as bankrupt and insolvent as most, but we have the coolest electronic printing presses. And the inmates in charge hardly even need permission. And in a few weeks Zero Hedge will advise that our debt exceeds our GDP. What a milestone. At some point this little can that says USA will be kicked right over the cliff onto the rocks below... And then it will end, so we can begin.
Monopoly said - "in a few weeks Zero Hedge will advise that our debt exceeds our GDP"
No need to wait a couple weeks for Tyler to say that as Tyler already said that a week ago or so.
It's in archives.
Where are things with regard to the new debt-ceiling? ... that one must be coming up again real soon? ... I mean, that was August 2nd, and we're now in early November ... that's got to be the best part of at least another trillion USD ... US economy ain't no Toyota Prius ... it's not exactly economical'.
I agree 100%.
I also think the same is generally true of a decent block of American voters ... however in the past these voters were split on BS social issues and other assorted sundries. I have liberal friends who are frothing at the mouth regarding monetary policy. Same on the right.
If you only listened to MSM, this reality wouldn't exist. However if you talk to people and maintain dialogues with a broad group of folks, its obvious.
The wheels are coming off. The gig is up.
Time for the finale!
Regards,
Cooter
The dollar wont die until the ME and NA hostile aquistions are completed
Dat be rayciss to think you are any different from anyone else
Nein , Nein , Nein .
Catchy , ain't it ?
The Herman Cain Mutiny.
http://wn.com/Mozart_Die_Zauberfloete_The_Magic_Flute_Stirb,_Ungeheu'r,_durch_unsre_Macht!_Die_drei_Damen
edit -- A better one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS0zok8z0cM&feature=related
I just had a flashback to a Colbert Report bit:
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/10/19/colbert-everyone-talking-about-herman-ca...
Where in that article is Germany telling the G-20 to stick it? I would think Frau Merkel would wish to do her masters' bidding without hesitation.
I don't think she gets on helicopters, anymore....
The imf can't do nothing. It will be disavowed in december per the Ghost Protocol. Ask Cruise.
"Now, pleeze giz us your golds." In a CB that fears excessive inflation, why would they ever put gold up as collateral? this will NEVER happen. They'll have to pry it from Bundesbank's cold, dead hands first....
They'll have to pry it from Bundesbank's cold, dead hands first....
The only problem is that it isn't in their hands, it's in NY. Why? Maybe for the same reason no one is allowed to audit Fort Knox.
Maybe for the same reason no one is allowed to audit Fort Knox.
Isn't that where we supposedly put the other German gold?
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1999/spring/nazi-gold-merk...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385135/Nazi-gold-worth-500m-usi...
You don't ask a country you want to be friends with to backstop anything with it's gold. It's like asking a buddy to backstop your love life with his wife.
The G-20 are not friends
They are not anything
More than we are\
Just giving our opinions
As though we had some special insight
Read these comments above and below
We do not have any special insight
om
The G20 is the new strawman after the total systemic failure of the G7 during 2008-2009.
They G7 felt it was best to be more inclusive with regard to the blame and culpability.
And the profuse vanity of the other 13 states made this a cinch, as their leaders and finance ministers were suddenly shoved into the lime-light as no-bullshitting global "somebodies".
Even though they made no difference at all, and merely added to the circus of failure.
Some how, some way, the ECB will get its way.
Germany better tow the line, otherwise they will pay the price one way or another.
Wouldn't surprise me to see the ECB actually start a bear raid on the DAX futures and send Germany into a huge deflationary spiral as "punishment" for their non-co-operation.
Where are they going to tow the line to, Robo? Maginot?
Fuck the ECB, they couldn't start a pebble rolling down a mountain, they are totally POWERLESS!!! The only thing they can do is PRINT MORE FIAT MONEY!! And we all know where that leads, don't we?
Like the ECB or anybody is holding all the cards on Germany. They would be more shit scared of what Germany might do in response...like say the Euro can go fuck itself.
Watch Europe and USA immediately disapear down the toilet.
Robo chucking a little tantrum here as the reality of gold slaps him across the face, and the reality the Germany can makes his stocks look like used toilet paper. LoL
RT, I appreciate that you bring an opposing view to a site that increasingly speaks with one voice, but in this instance I just cannot see how the ECB can do anything to save itself, much less punish about the only producing member of its club. Whatever harsh action the ECB might take against Germany---if the ECB could ever muster the initiative and competence to do anything---pales in comparison to the damage that will happen to Germany's finances if it has to take on the burden of hand feeding its neer-do-well EU brethren.
If Germany kowtows to the ECB and EFSF and ponies up its present and future seedcorn, it is a net loss to German wealth. If Germany walks away from the EU, at the very least it retains the wealth it has accumulated and still has perhaps the world's best engineering and precision manufacturing capability.
There is pain aplenty regardless, but weighing the alternatives, Germany's choice is becoming ever more clear by the day. Incidentally, Germans seem less interested than most in the appearance of wealth tied up in equity ownership or property prices. While the rest of the world was on a RE buying spree and creating bubbles everywhere from Singapore to Mumbai, German property prices barely budged and 60% of German people still rent. Thus, your perceived ECB threat might be meaningless to Germany.
Look at the facts: Greece is a shambles. Spain's 22.7% UE3 doesn't even make the front section of the international papers, much less its 50% youth UE. Portugal is forgotten. Irish Catholics are doing what Irish Catholics do best: punish themselves and feel guilt not only for what they might have done, but for what they might one day do. Tens of thousands march in Rome today railing against a largely neutered Berlusconi, for guarantees on the benefits nobody can deliver. Every one of these problems calls for a redistribution of German wealth and effort as its solution, something the German public will be increasingly unwilling to give.
I do not underestimate the desire of the markets to believe in fantasies, and do not dismiss the possibility that a regurgitation of comforting, convoluted and delusional words might prompt another sharp rally, but none of this has staying power in the face of mathematical, economic and (perhaps) cultural reality. Germans seem to be on the verge of learning to say "no".
I don't know why anyone responds to robo. He never replies to anyone. He is here to issue his propaganda and leave.
Like a shart on a cloth chair, his smell lingers on....
On the contrary.
Consider the present case.
Robo has provoked the estimable Chindit13 into making a lucid and sensible comment, which enriches the site. Nice to have you back Chindit13.
You've gotta be one of the dumbest dipshits on ZH.
Merkel can tell ECB fuck off anytime she wants, and yes Germany will leave EU sooner or later, probably sooner, and the whole fucking EU ponzi scheme will collapse.
Robot Trader,
Germany better tow the line, otherwise they will pay the price one way or another.
How so?, they hold ALL the cards, and the cash, and the gold, and are 100% self sufficient.
Germany does not need the Euro, or the ECB.
Except for the fact that a European Bankster cabal controls the ECB and the rest of the head-of-state puppets over there: They will all do what they are told to do as insane as the results may be.
If we just had more ink, we could print more money, then all these problems would go away....I know lets ask China to lend us some ink!
WTF doesn't Italien backstop itself since it has the second highest Goldreserven?
Well, within Europe, but ... Cha-Ching! otherwise.
Regards,
Cooter
It's Kryptonite to central bankers, they would lose their magical powers, which are considerable these days as economic Rasputins.
It is far too empowering to real democracies for them to allow open use of gold. Openly using gold is an admission it is money again. Other countries would demand it if the dam is broke. Sigh, which is what people want and the world needs.
Italy would never see it again if they physically gave it up and they'd have zero leverage as the price skyrockets. If the West began using gold backed currency, we would be gold superpowers.
But it is restricter device on the central banker printing presses, would hasten the end their power of currency monopollies and their ongoing massive theft thru debasement and usury.
Harder to export with stronger currencies, but it's offset by obtaining resources cheaper. Resources like oil.
The west? Don't you mean Northern Europe?
All the trade deficit countries in the west (including the US) would be massively impoverished by a gold backed currency (which makes it much harder to keep trade deficits going on for long).
Not getting you Marco.
The "West" meaning Europe, North America, Japan -- has more gold than the rest of the world combined A lot more. They could gang up on China and Russia to maintain currency supremacy. Gresham's Law would favor use of said WRC backed by gold (horrors!) which would maintain the West's control of currency -- but obviously the last option for Central Bankers who desire fiat.
If the West loses WRC of fiat currency their value collapses, by 50%? 80%?. Labor costs get cut in half but Oil and other raw materials doubles.
The tripe that a strong currency kills exports is not necessarily true at all. It is merely the dogma that favors central banks premeditated theft by debasement strategy. Examples: Both Japan and Germany increased exports with rising currencies. Lower input import costs, for raw materials and energy using a strong currency, lowered prices for export giving a competitive advantage. We're told that we need to debase our currencies to create exports and jobs -- but that is a lie and the real truth is that debasing the currency is just a stealth default of our massive debts. (Jim Rickards KWN).
At any rate, a country can also run parallel currencies such as gold coins for domestic use, such as Malaysia is doing, and Swiss and Mexico are considering (gold and silver coinage respectively.) A gold coinage movement in Utah and several other states is also underfoot. And private international online companies such as GoldMoney have filled the void with private gold accounts that convert gold to digital currencies for customers as needed.
The US gold supply (assuming the conspiracy theorists are wrong) is about enough to cover 1 year of the US's trade deficit.
The fiat ponzi and bubble pumping which it allowed is the only thing which made the US trade deficit sustainable for more than a few years ... that's why Nixon got off the gold standard in the first place, he knew that peak oil inside the US would devastate the economy if he didn't find a way to keep the foreign oil flowing.
As I've said many times before, Europe has not exploded yet. This has been and continues to be a slow process, but it will happen. Eventually this game will end. And I believe it will end with the death of the Euro and the broader European economic "union." Gold will re-emerge as a mainstream store of wealth, and its value will skyrocket. I only hope this all happens peacefully, because there is a very distinct possibility of armed conflict over all of this. Wars have started over less.
Any prediction, other than all out war, is foolish. God only knows which tree this rolling shit show wraps itself around.
If it was so clear and simple, really brilliant people would already have bet the farm on it several years ago. It is neither so clear, no so simple.
Gold is one of four potential outcomes for a monetary foundation going forward:
This is far from over ...
Regards,
Cooter
I'll take Gold for $100, Alex.
For $100...
The people of this ancient South American civilization often described gold as being "tears of the sun."
What are the Incas?
OK then, 2 tears, one sticky bugger and a damp hankie.
Oh, I'm sorry knukles... That answer is incorrect. The correct answer is, Who were the Incas? Please remember to phrase your answer in the form of a question.
Producers? I'm sorry, it seems island dweller had already buzzed in with the correct answer. My hearing must be failing...
AND the last question on the board... Gold for $500.
Located in Kentucky, this is the location where most of the nation's gold-plated tungsten reserves are kept.
What is Al Gore's boathouse?
Oh... A popular answer, but I'm sorry Forest, that answer is incorrect. The correct answer is, What is the China Cafe? Yes, yes, located in Middlesboro, Kentucky. I can see it dawned on you as soon as I said it...
Your Final Jeopardy Category is..... World Leaders. World Leaders... contestants will be asked to place their wagers during this break on the subject of World Leaders. Stay Tuned. We'll be right back.
Your Final Jeopardy Answer....
Coming from near obscurity and galvanizing the population of his adopted country, this world leader was praised by the Humane Society for saving the life of a purebred competition level canine.
Who is Gadaffi?
BZZT! Who is L-Pap?
Bzzzzt! Who is; "I'm back Yo momma?"
The whole thing has become a joke.
I think things should start unravelling very soon.
Naked truth to the fore- i sincerely hope.
I think the Germans should give those ECBers some nice new german shovels and tell them to start digging.
At $5/oz they could have this thing paid of in ... er, paid off in ... er, ... I need a calculator is more digits ... please stand by ...
Regards,
Cooter
I sort of miss that guy, must be driving his Ferrari up and down the beach..
I think the Germans should print a bank note denominated in DM and send it to the ECB with a note... "Here's our gold".
It could be like one of those giant sweepstakes checks, 1m x 2m wide.
Like the one JPM sent Chavez.
"A plan to have the International Monetary Fund issue its special currency as a powerful weapon in Europe's efforts to contain the widening euro-zone debt crisis was blocked by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, according to a report in a German newspaper."
There's still a little decency left in Merkel it seems.
Jesus.
The SDR is not even a fucking currency.
It's hypothetical fiat2 boolkeeping entry of sorts.
While I do not disagree, it is a book keeping entry that can back stop all this madness ... if they system chooses to employ it.
Right now the system seems to disagree with itself. Curious that ...
Regards,
Cooter
Oh absolutely, Cooter. Spot on.
My comment was directed toward "Angie's quote" as per the article wherein she refers to it as a "Currency. "
We're in Good Hands with the State
Can't wait for the NWO to Formally Arrive.
They can even send the check USPS with SDRs:
http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_008.htm
Scroll to the bottom and check out letter d.
Do you suspect the Special Drawing rights will be the 'new' global currency?
It appears to me to be headed that way... I get the impression they're already test-driving it as a reserve currency.
I really hate to be the insensitive guy to say this ... but ... whores do what they are told to do ... so, its all part of the script.
Regards,
Cooter
DISCLOSURE: I think most of Congress, the White House, and so forth as whores as well, no va-jay-jay required. They all do what they are told to do.
Angela ist heiß
those G-20 finiMini types have it made, don't they?
Sleep in a veritable palace
Eat like a king
Loads of blow and hookers (on the QT)
Chauffeured limos
Sherpas do all the work
Shake hands, bow and chat
Jerk off in the bathroom
Pass out on somebody else's tab
Indiscretions kept Private
Finagle invitation to next Bilderberg or Bohemian Grove
Have no fucking idea whatsoever what is really transpiring
Can they forfeit to me please?
This is what you get when the IMF comes to town.
This is what you get when the IMF comes to town:
http://www.livevideo.com/video/BESToftheBEST/8572389162284FFD9468AD17757...
Excellent doc. Must see!!!!!
They just set the minimal floor for any future China bailouts.
Gold.
And let that shiny physical metal set sail from those New York and London vaults to sunny Beijing.
The Future Begins Tomorrow at Yoyodyne.
seems our beloved congressional super debt reduction heroes will compromise to the tune of FOUR TRILLION over 10 years. they call it "big and bold". well, lets see, thats about 400 billion a year which puts our yearly deficit at a little under 1 trillion. id say the only thing big and bold will be the continued mounting debt........................
It is becoming more and more likely that the German ship of state is likely to desert the sinking rat known as the E-Kumbaya-U.
Whatever benefits the common currency might have handed Germany over the first decade of monetary union is trumped by what seem to be the costs of keeping it together. Even if the gold is off the table, that 314% of GDP burden guesstimated by Weber (?) is far more harsh than the loss of price competitiveness Germany might face behind a new DM. If Germany waits too long to give up the ghost, even a new DM would be imperiled by the debt burdens Germany might assume between now and then to bail out its profligate brethren. Do the German people still have enough practicality to get out before it is too late?
If Germany had any other leader... not a perfect one but one ``average`` leader, Germany would have left the euro the first minute they were asked to bailout Greece. But Merkel and most people in the Bundestag are a bunch of totally corrupt puppets who don't know up from down.
Hell after the EFSF vote, reporters asked the representatives about their vote, what was the EFSF and how much money it was... all of those they interviewed didn't even know how much money the EFSF was ... don't even thinking about understanding what it is and what it does.
They just ask their party leader what to vote for and vote that way, not thinking a second.
The world's banksters own all the politicians; probably have "safe houses" for them somewhere too so long as they vote the right way. Can't wait to see the movie.
I think we are going to wake up one day to a mad scramble into precious metals. I think we are getting closer to that moment of realization that the debt house of cards is about to tumble and that there is no value in fiat currencies.
That's too funny, letting slip once again what real money is. They all turn into Ron Paul when they're asked to give up the precious. It's to die for... just ask Ghadaffi
Still say TPTB ultimately covet an IMF world central bank with sovereign confiscated gold to participate in the new reserve currency, the Bancor, nie SDRs. They'll make us fill a room full of gold like the Spanish did the Incas. After that, back to fiat forever....
Great article for insomniac brothers and sisters at ZH. Includes a tidbit on General Yamashita's Gold. Looted Chinese gold from 1930's invasion and WWII by the Japanese that was scattered in bunkers around the Philipines after Japan homeland was blockaded by US submarines, estimates an incredible >300,000 tonnes. Not a typo. 172 bunkers filled with tons of gold, some found, made Ferdinand Marcos rich. Yamashita killed laborers and his own soldiers to keep sites secret. Yamashita executed in 1946 for war crimes, not talking.
How Much Gold Stock is There Really? | The Gold Standard Institute
"In 1998 a Filipino newspaper called The Enquirer published an article revealing that 96 members of the Filipino military had signed a joint affidavit declaring that they had, between 1973 and 1985, recovered over 60,000 tonnes of gold from 30 out of the 172 Japanese treasure sites. If these 30 sites were typical, then the total amount of gold recovered by Marcos was just under 350,000 tonnes. Far more of the gold reached and, as far as is known, remains in Japan. The quantity seized by the US is unknown."
--Philip Barton, "How Much Gold is There Really?", Gold Standard Institute Oct 21, 2011
i have yamashita's map, gwar
.... and it leads from the Phillipines, to Langley, to Area 51, where they're gonna nuke it to make SuperGold, the critical component to power the time machine....
No way. Not the real one anyway.... Really? Split it with you ...think about it Slewie, that's a lot of diggin.... did I mention I speak Tagalog?
yes way
would i lie to you gwar?
how about a partnership?
i would bring the map, a bong and some xlnt stash, and you could supply some money and women. they would hafta be gold-diggerz, of course...
They are all gold-diggerz slewie... but you already know that.
I also have a copy of Yamawhatits map... got it out of a Quacker Oats box when I was a kid.