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G-20 Demands German Gold To Keep Eurozone Intact; German Central Bank Tells G-20 Where To Stick It
Going back to the annals of brokeback Europe, we learn that gold after all is money, after the G-20 demanded that EFSF (of €1 trillion "stability fund" yet can't raise €3 billion fame) be backstopped by none other than German gold. Per Reuters, "The Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAS) reported that Bundesbank reserves -- including foreign currency and gold -- would be used to increase Germany's contribution to the crisis fund, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) by more than 15 billion euros ($20 billion)." And who would be the recipient of said transfer? Why none other than the most insolvent of global hedge funds, the European Central Bank.
Also, in addition to gold, the ECB had set its eyes on that other "fake" currency that DSK had succeded in protecting throughout his tenure, all his other undoings aside, "The Welt am Sonntag newspaper, citing similar plans, said 15 billion euros would come from special drawing rights (SDR) that the Bundesbank holds." Naturally, these discoveries prompted a prompt and furious rebuttal from the very top of German authorities: "Germany's gold and foreign exchange reserves, which the Bundesbank administers, were not at any point up for discussion at the G20 summit in Cannes," government spokesman Steffen Seibert said. The WSJ adds, "A plan to have the International Monetary Fund issue its special currency as a powerful weapon in Europe's efforts to contain the widening euro-zone debt crisis was blocked by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, according to a report in a German newspaper."
There are three observations to be made here: i) when it comes to rescuing insolvent countries, Germany is delighted to sacrifice euros at the altar of the 50-some year old PIIGS retirement age; ask for its gold however, and things get ugly; ii) the Eurozone, the ECB and the EFSF are dead broke, insolvent and/or have zero credibility in the capital markets, and they know it and iii) due to the joint and several nature of the ECB's capital calls, while Germany may have had enough leverage to tell G-20 to shove it, the next countries in line, especially those which are already insolvent and will rely on the EFSF for their existence once the ECB's SMP program is finished, may not be that lucky, and in exchange for remaining in the eurozone, the forfeit could well be their gold.
WSJ brings details on how German SDRs would be used as a temporary (temporary as in European financial short selling ban, and temporary reduction of initial margin to maintenance for everyone to appease MF Global clients) backstop for Europe:
The idea of using SDRs to fight financial contagion isn't new. When the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008 unleashed a financial crisis, the G-20 in 2009 approved a $250 billion SDR allocation to help backstop efforts to fight the spread of the crisis.
The European Central Bank has been buying euro-zone bonds in an effort to keep borrowing costs of weakened members from exploding. But the ECB's efforts are considered by some experts to be outside of its central mandate to maintain price stability. And the ECB has said that its special measures - buying euro-zone debt -- should be temporary and limited in scope. That is another reason why some people are advocating the IMF play a greater role in propping up weakened euro-zone members and become the lender of last resort.
Speaking to reporters at the close of the Cannes summit, Merkel indicated that G-20 leaders agreed in principle that the IMF and EFSF could work together, but the summit could not agree on any specifics.
"We have an interesting process ahead of us and the discussion is not yet concluded," she said.
Reuters brings more on the the logical German reaction to the EFSF and ECB's extortion attempts:
"We know this plan and we reject it," a Bundesbank spokesman said.
Seibert said several partners had raised the question in Cannes whether SDRs could be used to strengthen the EFSF but Germany had rejected this plan and discussions at Monday's Eurogroup on Monday would not discuss this topic.
The newspapers had said the issue was taken off the agenda at the G20 following Bundesbank opposition but that it would be debated on Monday at a Eurogroup meeting of euro zone finance ministers.
Why will it be debated? Because when at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Germany may be crossed off the list, but here is who is next in order of appearance. Sooner or later, Europe will stumble on that one "leader" whose gold is less valuable than their political stability, because after all, a "united", "EMUed" Europe has the biggest MAD trump card of all.
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Hey! I picked one up on e-Bay last week for $2. Can I come along as the community organizer? Promise I'll keep everybody's funds in segregated accounts.
http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Warriors-Americas-Recovery-Yamashitas/dp/1844675319/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320577317&sr=8-1
This book maintains that it funded the CIA and other nefarious US groups for decades after being totally recovered in secret. Gotta get me some quality reading time.
Gold? We dun need no steenkeen gold! We de ECB, man!
Flash Memo from Euro Council:
-The following terms are hereby banished and expunged from all official Euro documents:
"Gold Standard", "Golden Rule", "Golden Age", "Golden Touch", "Good as Gold", "Goldman"
We are working on suitable alternatives.
NOTE: they are keeping "Golden Parachute"
This is how you steal money from countries and then you own them. The people will work off the debt through taxes, which will never be paid off. of course you will have to create a One World Bank to keep this all in order. Its a great way to do business.
Don't forget, after you steal money, you make steel money.
bring us a bottle of your best brandy why your at it
Reasons to avoid gold & silver stocks:
1. Political Risk. Market regulations, taxation, royalties, nationalization, etc.
2. Stock Market Risk. Markets freeze up and stop trading.
3. Financial Market Risk. Loans and financing become difficult to obtain.
I agree with those points. I think we are facing a cataclysmic event (most likely to begin in the financial markets). I expect the markets to freeze up at some point and all hell to break loose. When that happens the ability for miners/explorers to raise money is going to be severely hampered.
So, yes, the risk of investing in precious metals stocks is huge and getting bigger every day. I'm taking a huge risk with my exposure today. I'm just praying that the markets hold together until 2014. If they go down in 2012 or 2013, I'm going to take a big hit.
But I know (I expect) the carnage that's coming and hope to be mostly physical by the end of 2013. I'm betting that we will get a rush into the metals and into the mining stocks soon. I know its a bet and not an investment. I know the risk I am taking.
I have diversified into many different countries. I think that Canada, Brazil, and hopefully Mexico will be okay. As long as Mexico does not nationalize their mines or raise royalties too high, I think mining will do well for a while. As for Canada, I think that demand for gold is not going away anytime soon. I think we will get a mania in Canadian mining stocks at some point. As long as markets trade, these stocks have a good chance.
I think that many precious metals stocks will get blindsided by political factors. And that it is hard to know which ones will get hit, or if the entire industry will get blindsided (this could happen to the US markets).
My doomsayer expectation with the US dollar's demise and US national debt default is spot on. However, the fall out and timing is hard to predict. I just know we're in a countdown to a collapse. What will be the fallout, and how will miners get exposed? That's hard to say, but it will likely be negative to the overall industry.
I think physical silver right now is an excellent investment (I've been buying the dips). Silver will do amazingly well as silver runs to $150 and beyond. But once silver gets to $75, the stocks are going to look very enticing and the metal not so much. When silver hits $75 the upside is only going to look like a double. But what will miners look like at $75 silver? I'm using silver as an example, but the same goes for gold.
If you look at the risk/reward profiles of investments today, I see the following. Any S&P stock (other than food, energy, or precious metals) is extremely risky. Any bond (including corporate, municipal, state, and federal) is extremely risky. I don't think people understand the risk they are taking with their investments today.
The best risk/reward profile is physical silver, followed by physical gold.
The next best is gold and silver miners (producers). There is more risk of course than physical, but the rewards could be amazing. The total market capitalization of gold miners is worth close to Microsoft ($220 billion). The total market cap for silver miners is worth close to Starbucks ($33 billion). Why the low valuations in silver and gold miners? No one wants to invest in miners today. That could change, and likely will.
After that is energy. I think oil is going to $200 soon, and natural gas to $15 (currently $3.50).
After that is food. With higher oil prices, you get higher food prices.
Invest accordingly, but know that physical metal is really the only safe investment.
www.goldsilverdata.com
"I know its a bet and not an investment. I know the risk I am taking."
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We all know approximately what risks we take but that isn't the point. The point is 'how will I handle it if I am wiped out in my positions in metals stocks'?
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" I don't think people understand the risk they are taking with their investments today."
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You're invested in PM stocks and are taking others to task for their 'lack of understanding in investments'... classic case of confirmation bias on your part...or, you are a salesman for mining/exploration stocks.
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"There is more risk of course than physical, but the rewards could be amazing."
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Investors losses on mining stocks can also be amazing. I am living proof of that. A mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it.
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"but know that physical metal is really the only safe investment."
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THIS! The remainder of your post is wasted bandwidth. Few people have the inclination and expertise to investigate the background of mining management or the likelyhood of success of a current mining venture. Not to mention the possibilities of nationalization of gold mines in a world economic collapse. Mining shares in new mining ventures are a crap shoot and nothing else. If one wants to shoot craps for profit why not go to Vegas?... At least in Vegas one knows the odds before rolling the dice and the rules of the game are not changed while the dice are in the air... plus the drinks are on the house.
Spot on. And when gold gets problematic, the solution is war. Then you place your bets on the winner.
Really? Like when England won the battle of waterloo? would you have put your bet on England???
Ugh.
"but know that physical metal is really the only safe investment."
Some folks who bet the farm on silver when it was at $45+ might disagree. They aren't as bold with their predicitions of $100/oz silver by the end of the year as they were when it was at $45 with a bullet.
I'm not saying PMs aren't going to skyrocket at some point, but if you're investing, you want to maximize your investments, no? You want to get the most of your chosen asset for your fiat dollars. Most of us have some kind of vision for how we see things playing out. Personally, I see deflation in all markets before hyperinflation, so while I agree that owning some physical is smart and a good hedge, loading up right now doesn't make sense under my scenario. But then again, I could be wrong. My point is, without putting a timeline on your investment advice, it's not very useful. And in these markets, given the volatility in just about every asset class, calling anything a "safe investment" is a stretch.
Dawg!
Morning, again. I'm right there with you as to the deflation before hyperinflaiton. Big time. God knows I've left notes about that 2 step process (LOL unintended) all over ZH through time.) Another moment of sanity, my man. Thanks.
Left you a note after your previous post today, re: sociological effects from yesterday.
Excellent stuff.
Cheers!
The deflationary period already happened:. Fall of '08 to Spring of '09.
So those few months of deflation took care of the bubble that was 30 years in the making? You really believe that or is that just something someone told you? Have you really thought it through, worked some numbers, or just wishing and hoping?
The point is that deflation will be/is the trigger for Hyperinflation. Little Ms. Blythe Masters created the CDS which is the ultimate backstop to deflation. Deflation has already happened and that's why there is such an uproar to stop the leveraged CDS's from triggering. Once triggered the CDS's will set in motion the biggest printing orgy in history as the currency to pay them does not even exist.................yet.
It's Hyperinflation or War !
Take your pick.
We've only had a taste of the deflation that's looming.
You've put your faith in the Fed. You have faith that they can stem the natural tide of the markets. I don't have that faith. I think the markets will overwhelm them. Once we've actually experienced the necessary deflation, then they can print their way to hyperinflation. That's a few years away, IMO.
"Some folks who bet the farm on silver when it was at $45+ might disagree. They aren't as bold with their predicitions of $100/oz silver by the end of the year as they were when it was at $45 with a bullet."
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I see PMs as a store of value; ie, an asset that cannot be printed and, basically, a protection from the inflationary path all CBs are hell bent on following.
I don't make 'bets on silver' or 'bets on gold' but I have accumulated both over many, many years. I am not interested in get rich quick schemes and I don't care what 'fiat value' is placed on PMs. My goal has always been to protect my earnings from inflation... it's working pretty well.
I will be satisfied if PMs purchase the same amount of bread in the years ahead as they have in the years past. While some were investing in various retirement schemes I was investing in PMs. At first in $1K face bags of coins, Mexican gold Pesos, then Krugurands, worn gold eagles, then bullion, etc. I have sold none and it's widely dispersed.
If the dollar collapses or is devalued severely PMs will continue to purchase the same amount of goods and services as they did in the past. That cannot be said of dollars. So, I have converted devaluing fiat into PMs that retain their purchasing power. PMs are a bet against the dollar retaining it's purchasing power...damn near a lead pipe cinch, imo.
I do speculate but it's in energy and with leverage... not PMs. I can not accumulate and store much energy nor can most others, however I can and have accumulated and stored PMs...since 1968.
One persons opinion and strategy... not reccommended for those that feel they have to be 'in action' at all times. I am a turtle, not a hare.
In my case, since 1982.
+ 1 Snidley
Germany is toast no matter what it does. Once the EU clown car goes over the cliff it takes Germany's customers for its' exports with it.
They should probably start convincing the Chinese that eating bratwurst and kraut will make you last longer in the sack.
They've already convinced the Chinese that German cars are more desirable than any other.
New BMWs long 5 series are around $150K in China, I hear.
When I was in Munich picking up a new one last year, I was amazed at how few people it took to make one of them. The BMW factory was the most automated operation I've ever seen.
I don't disagree with you, because I don't know anything about BMW factories. I do know a little about automated manufacturing/filling lines for health & beauty products. Quite a few years ago I was on the production floor and there was this giant (15x15 foot) German batcher/sorter piece of equipment that was a component of a new automated line. When it was delivered the whole line had to be reconfigured to accommodate its size. Its electronics were very complicated/difficult to access and the plant engineers were having a terrible time servicing it. The day I saw it, it was off line and pushed into a corner. I asked the plant manager if it had been replaced. The answer was yes and he walked me over to the newly configured line with a much smaller (5x5 foot) batcher/sorter that was made in ITALY. Say what you will, the Italian line "equipment" that we bought was smaller, simpler and more beautiful. I do recall, however, that they never made an on-time delivery.
"Germany is toast no matter what it does."
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I saw Germany in the aftermath of WW2 and it was truly toast. If Germany came back from those ashes, Germany will not be destroyed, physically nor economically, by the current 'Euro Crisis'.
Dip your head in a bucket of water... your hair is on fire.
You will have to convince them it will make them homo's as they made sure their are no women to screw, idiots.. Yeah the one child morons will rule the world sure they could not look into their future 30 years ...
My friends in Germany say that there's a frenzy of people buying real estate, timber, metals, anything to get rid of those paper euros into something at least they can touch. Huge real estate boom. Smart ones are buying farmland or something with an income.
Well rent generating assets are obviously the future after collapse assuming government goes anarcho capitalist, which is highly likely because TPTB have stolen just about everything ... and if you own everything who needs government any more other than to keep the thieves away? It seems jumping the gun a bit for the moment though.
If Germany gave up their gold-bund yields would spike and there would be another "G" added to PIIGS
The should ahve listened to Geithner and Bernanke when they had the chance:
May 2010, as European leaders scrambled to come together with their first rescue for Greece and to create a bailout fund for other countries using the euro. Timothy F. Geithner, the United States Treasury secretary, urged his European counterparts to “think big.” He called on them to produce a plan that might rival in size the $700 billion bank rescue that Washington devised in 2008. At one point early in the talks, the team from Washington, headed by Mr. Geithner and Ben S. Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, was told that the initial European proposal was for a bailout fund of about 60 billion euros.
The team was stunned. The American officials told the Europeans that they were off by an order of magnitude, meaning that Europe should be talking about at least 600 billion euros.
We should than our lucky stars that dreamteam of Merkozy are on the case because they seem to have a real grasp of the situation:
In October 2010, Mrs. Merkel and the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, suggested requiring some sacrifice from banks and other euro zone creditors, though their idea was that this would not happen until 2013 and would not affect Greece.
And by Spring 2011 the brilliance that is the EU were shocked when restructing was suggested:
Paradoxically, it was a representative of the banking industry, perhaps more in tune with the realities of the marketplace, who finally insisted that Greece could not borrow and cut its way out of the crisis without having to restructure its debt.
“There was shock and surprise on their faces,” Mr. Dallara recalled. “They could not believe it.”
Again, Germany put its foot down — another delay. While a new deal reached in late October will force bondholders to accept deep losses, Europe, Greece and Mr. Dallara continue to insist that the transaction will be voluntary.
The Clusterfuck that is the EU are going to awesome next week if it was true that what happened to Italian bonds on friday was that they in fact went bidless until the ECB stepped in.
Going to be all fun and games watching this shit show unwind.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/business/global/europes-two-years-of-d...
Anybody who listens to the chairsatan or mr. tax evader is an even bigger fool than these Euro clowns are now.
Such language from a lady - but a clusterfuck indeed. In the end, it may prove the best outcome for working people if they are not crushed under a mountain of worthless fiat just to hold up their mismanaged banks. I'd much rather purge the system, take the losses (which are inevitable anyway) and suffer for a few years - rather than drag this out for a decade or more.
Or we could stop going into debt, in the magnitude of trillions of dollars a year. The policy makers have cut of their noses for no apparent reason. We should have let the banking industry fail.
Maybe some wealth would have been lost, but we could pick up the pieces. There will still be food and water without bankers, and who knows, maybe there would be more jobs if we acted locally.
TUI already calculates in Greek Drachma
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20111105-38681.html
http://www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/griechenland-krise/griechenland-tui-r...
Why not declare war on the Vatican? If all they need is a pile of gold to be solvent and happy, I have read there is a king's ransom held by the Catholic Church. Why pick on Germany?
The pope was just saying we need a one world currency, so he should hand over the loot, or hush up.
He converted much of it to frescoes and statues over the years.
OR, they could feed the poor and do Jesus-good- Samaritan-shit with it but that would imply this is a sincere institution that's not down with the NWO. The globalist motherf*ckers (of which the pope is) can't have that. It goes against the eugenics program as outlined by agenda 21 and the 'sustainability' coalition.
Hah, looking at the chart and thinking like an Obamanation president, I'd say the germans need to spread some o' that gold around. You know, share the wealth? too funny
Heinrich the Plumber is not amused...lol.
But Dieter says "Now is die time on Sprockets ven ve Dahnce!"
Do you vants to hold my monkee?
At what point does Germany finally tell the bankers to shove it up their ass? Probably never with Yerckle in charge.
So I guess we're all just waiting for Italy to shit the bed.
When will that happen?
Who knows?
http://fucklloydblankfein.blogspot.com
OT, but did anyone see how JP Morgan DOES NOT have MF Global's missing money?
http://www.businessinsider.com/found-the-missing-mf-millions-in-an-accou...
CNBC is now reporting that JPMorgan has denied that it has the missing MF Global funds. While MF Global does, apparently, have several hundred million dollars worth at JP Morgan, it is not in fact THE money that everyone is looking for. Apparently the $658.8 million held at JP Morgan was just similar to the $633 million figure that was being thrown around for how much money was missing.
Huckle Buckle Beanstalk...
Thank You!!!!!
U.S. Central Bank; Issuing worthless paper to confiscate real Gold since 1913...
What if each "sovereign" nation's gold reserves (Italy, Spain, Holland, Belgium, etc...) had been compromised (posted as collateral)... long ago...ever since 2009-2010 in exchange for keeping the music going and pulling no chairs.
On a de facto basis, and as far the crooked politicians could tell, the countries may still hold some kind of official title to their reserves; but the day-to-day national bureaucrats in charge of balancing the books may have already signed off those reserves long ago with the help of the unelected Barrosos of Europe.
Before having to come clean! to their bosses (PM and fin ministers); the european political bureacucracy is just giving national bureacurats a way to formalize something after the fact.
The politics of "done deals"!
Great, now Germany wants everyone elses gold!
Germany: We want to take control over Europe via debt using our SPV EFSF, and confiscating everyone else gold
Clueless Euro: Ok, great plan, we drowning in debt anyways but wiill play along with EFSF
Germany: Lets make them think that gold backed EFSF is a good idea, however we will refuse using our own gold since EFSF is really ours anyway
Clueless Euro: Ok if Germany refuses we shall ask next Euro member inline for gold so it can back Germany's EFSF
Seems they expect the EUR to still be around in 2013 :
.. and the magical "700 Billion" number reappears :
ESM --> EUR 700 Billion start capital.
EU: Treaty of debt (ESM) - stop it now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=5CZr17HLH5U
"How far to Paris?"
"60hrs in a TANK"
PANZER!!
The are grabbing for any money they can.
Yep, it's like watching an international wino who used to be somebody begging for a dollar and shamelessly picking up secondhand cigarettes in full view, at a public bus shelter.
Where does germany keep its gold? If most of it is, as I suspect, in the USA for "safekeeping", then the gold islong gone and swapped out. It is probably in the necks and wrists of dot-indian women now.
I never understood why Europeans kept their gold in the US for safekeeping. Seriously, anybody expected the Soviets to come rolling across Europe and not have a nuclear war?
Can't nuke Europe: prevailing winds would carry fallout to Russia. That's why we nuked Japan and not Germany. The Pacific made it all cleaner and neater.
Germany had already surrendered before we nuked Japan.
And the ECB has said that its special measures - buying euro-zone debt -- should be temporary and limited in scope. That is another reason why some people are advocating the IMF play a greater role in propping up weakened euro-zone members and become the lender of last resort.
Complete bullshit.
Massive ECB printing is the ONLY way to save the EU at this point ...unless the Fed does it by proxy through the IMF as so-called "SDRs", which are pre-authorized checks drawn on the Fed, i.e. American taxpayers.
One way or the other, massive currency printing is the ONLY way to save the EU now. ECB has to print and buy up worthless Euro-nation debt, or the Fed has to do it through the IMF.
And they don't have long to decide. Euro-nation debt is collapsing in price and skyrocketing in yield, especially after Greece proved CDS hedging is worthless.
And right after the G20 just finished saying they agreed to not competitively devalue.
Double-speak and double-think are alive and well.
I'm no expert on the details of how this complex financial machine works, but in many cases, I believe, CDS were bought no so much as a hedge but as a device to allow greater leverage on current assets. If a loan was "insured" it could be counted as money good and leveraged many times over.
don't you morons get it : what if the ECB buys gold in the open market instead of selling it... It's goldreserves will go up due to the pricerevaluation this is going to give in the global FYSICAL gold
Are these guys at ZEROHEDGE really that stupid ?
Gold is MTM on the ECB balance sheet
don't you morons get it : what if the ECB buys gold in the open market instead of selling it... It's goldreserves will go up due to the pricerevaluation this is going to give in the global FYSICAL gold
Are these guys at ZEROHEDGE really that stupid ?
Gold is MTM on the ECB balance sheet
Who the fuck are you talking to?
I looked it up: the definition of moron is someone who posts the exact same thing twice while accusing others of being morons.
Problem is if they bought gold for all their bogus receipts that would just get them to being legitimately broke. Then if they bought more zimbabwe would be laughing at them.
Now if only the ECB could somehow get Gordon Brown running the show over at the Bundesbank - he'd be shovelling that sh!t outta there so fast (at firesale, going-outta-business, giveaway prices) that you'd think it was radioactive gold-plated tungsten.
Anyway, since (at least as far as I'm aware) most of the German gold is held in the vaults of the NY Fed Res., the good volk over at the Bundi might NOT have too much say in how its disposed of... assuming, of course, that it's still there- and wasnt, for instance, "leased out" to Corzine & his pals at MoFo-GloHo. Now wouldnt THAT be a hoot ;)
Now we see why Chavez wants his gold back in Venezuela...
That story got awfully damn quiet awfully damn quick... Anyone, anyone, crickets......
Been waiting for it.
he's trying to call out this shit methinks. He already has a target on his back.
So much for the Chinese bailing out Euroland. Last night, one of the Tea Partiers from the Chinese Central Committee, stated the following:
"Also last night, the chairman of the supervisory board of China Investment Corporation, the country’s sovereign wealth fund, put further distance between China and the eurozone bail-out, saying that Europe’s bloated welfare state meant that people did not work hard enough.
“I think if you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of their worn out welfare societies,” Jin Liqun said in an interview with Al Jazeera television. “I think the labour laws are outdated – the labour laws induce sloth, indolence rather than hard working. The incentive system is totally out of whack.”"
Did I read it correctly:"....troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of their worn out welfare societies,”
Did the gentlemen from the Chinese gov just say that ....wait for it.....socialism es muerte?
Finget lick'n Superlicious........
Full text for reference:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8872380/Goldman-euro-...
Its called slavery - you work your ass off for the communist banker that owns you and in return you get no pension, health care or other social safety net.
Exodus 5:9
Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words.
It's economic slavery. In <src>good old-fashioned </src> slavery, you were an investment and the bare necessities for existence were 'taken care of.' With economic slavery, you are on your own or they rob from the middle class and giveth to the walmart-type corporation employee as 'earned income credit,' foodstamps and/or state health insurance. It's a double agenda- rob the middle class so they hate the poor class. Divide and Conquer.
The Chinese are just licking their lips and waiting for the West to collapse, and they'll help that along any way they can or "can't". Then they get to write the history books and determine the next world currency which will no doubt be backed by gold. Hell of a do-over coming.
Shit, all their gold will be used to buy wimmin.. Otherwise they will swing from Beijing lamposts. All the debt in the world will not make our piles of ammo go away... Of course Clinton probably gave it to them right after Doral..
Once confidence in fiat currencies (Euro) is lost, that confidence will not be restored with another fiat currency (SDR)
Restoring confidence will require a commodity-backed currency at a minimum and perhaps the use of gold and silver themselves as circulating currency
I hold these to be truisms
The Eurozone has a slight exception since they can return to their individual national fiat currencies after the Euro fails - nationalism and the euphoria of escaping the Euro will give these national fiat currencies a brief respite (12 months? 18 months? 3 years?) before people realize that swapping the fiat Euro for fiat Marks, Lyra and Drachmas didn't change anything or solve any economic problems
At the end of the day, all fiat currencies are toast and the people will demand commodity-backed currency before they start participating freely in their economies
~
Interesting to watch the Euro-zone imploding - the EFSF is a joke - Germany 'found' a $55 billion accounting error to fund their portion of the EFSF - Europe can't raise 3 billion Euros for the EFSF but wants to leverage the fund up to $1.4 TRILLION Euros somehow
Now the self-appointed politicians in Brussels think Germany should give up its gold?
What a freakin' joke!
Perhaps this is what it looks like when confidence in fiat currencies has been lost???
Seed bank bitchez!
That which comes next, and soon, I guarantee you will not enjoy.
Ho hum
So are the Yanks going to release the German gold that is (mostly) held in New York? Perhaps a promissory note to that end!
Why doesn't Germany exist the Euro, and leave the rest to drown in their own shit.
Is it just me, or is Sarkozy a snivelling midget brat, trying to get everyone to bail him and France out. Stamping his UK size 3's and screaming until he's sick sick sick.
Why doesn't he use his own gold. Sad fuck.
Yep - there're all a buncha insufferable flamin phaggot drama-queens... Sarkozy, Cameron - you name it..
The only one with a pecker (even if it is a pre-owned str@pon) appears to be Angela...
Whether or not there is a Panic on Manic Monday, I think the EU should pay royalties to the heirs of Betsy Ross for that silly E with the stars constelling around it ! The horizontal double slashes of the E came from the Dollar sign....which came from the scroll garlanded pillars of the Spanish Dubloon of Carlos Quinto (Charles the Fifth).....from which came forth the first pieces of eight.....chopped into bits by an axe on an old Cypress stump near Ponce de Leon's Fountain of Youth at Daytona Beach ? Monedas 2011 Dream Team for 2012: Obama/Simpson ! If an illegal alien can be President....why not a murderous felon for Veep ? Biden's gotta go ! It is not becoming when a Vice President is more erudite and better spoken than the President ! Thanks Obama for giving me the best opportunity to marvel at the state of black intelligence....since the first OJ Simpson trial !
Thanks for showing us how to derail one's own thread. Bravo.
perhaps the forfeit will be their infrastructure, their land. Rent their streets back to them, and sell them water while also renting the water facility back to them.
c'mon Germany you are getting played by the IMF/ECB/French cartel. Europe is already stuck with stagflation, and now they want to print into overkill. and we all know Italy is going to call the bluff of the cartel, all the while the German tax payers have been conned by Merkel via a 40% contribution to the ESFS also add the extra tax via oil inflation...and now they are after your gold!
ECB is the EFSF except with unlimited liability for Germany. They are finally realizing the circular nature of the problem
ZH stop the lies! The retirement age in Spain currently is 65, 50 some sounds like an almost 15 year divergence! Stop being malicious, people are suffering missery for a system that protects the powerful families. It is the corruption and the current system what makes this infeasible. That public services are heaven in Spain is a falacy: Hospitals are working at half-capacity. The only people who get immediate social assistance are immigrants and gypsies, who threaten the hospital staffs otherwise. Liver transplant pacients or severe disease afflicted people must wait for years...
Stop the lies against the people, inform about the corruption and the extreme inefficacy of the system.
It was raised from 65 to 67. I see tanks for this on the streets. I guess when you reach that age, ok to shoot on sight.
Especially if you shoot only the elderly; saves money that way.....sarc/
Contrary to what you may believe, people are very docile in Spain. They accepted 40-year mortgages, they are being foreclosured, and nobody says anything. This is the country of people without houses and houses with no people. Blod should be running as of today but people, as I am telling you, are very conformist. Maybe your beloved BBC echoes some noisy demonstration against raising the retirement age by sindicalist some day, but that is not the bulk of the population, who only move from their shitty, badly paid job to home and back.
So no, people don't spend the day sitting on the couch and getting social benefits, expect for the hive of scumbags, especially down in the south, who the governments try to maintain happy by giving them monetary help they don't need. That's something the rest do not agree with. Then again, I don't see Germany complaining because of this real problem.
dead right greenspanator... as much as many would love to believe it is not the nurses, the doctors, the firemen , the builders the janitors or the lollipop ladies who did all the lying bastard thieving accountancy that got us into this mess.. and yes they do deserve fair retirements for their lifes worked ...ZH are usualy better than this... keep a watch Tyler
Britain runs out of Euro-allies
David Cameron cannot keep his pledge to repatriate hefty powers from the EU
http://www.economist.com/node/21536568?fsrc=scn/tw/te/ar/britainrunsouto...
One domino at t time. LOL. This is getting juicier now . Still have a few more countries to go thru before USA. Let the fleecing and slavery begin. Might as well start. Deploy the army .
German Gold What is this ?
They may have some but its not in Germany. So how can one speak about German gold.
By the way the real German gold is its modern and open society. Many people think of Germany as a closed society of beer drinking idiots. Nothing could be wronger:
When living today in citys like Frankfurt or Mannheim or Cologne or Berlin then you realize that German influence is still strong but its just a part. In many industrial and economical centers of Germany more than 50% of the population claims to be of non German origins. In Frankfurt the ECB place its appx. 70 % new comers since WW2.
But this is not a new development: Going back 2000 years there was wave after wave of people entering Germany and left its traces within the population. Thats why some countries such as France and Spain call Germany in their language as " Allemagne" or Allemagna". Which means in German " Alle Maenner" and as the West Germanic language Englkish says "All men". This is to express that the people of Germany consisted of all kind of "different men" = different folks or Voelker in German.
Just imagine the Jews were living in Germany for appx 2000 years. Longer then they were living in Palestine! Genetically they are still in Germany but the religon was nearly erased during the 1940s. It was from Germany were the immigration of Jews to East Europe and Russia had its origin nearly 1000 years ago. They brought the Jiddish language to Eastern Europe and Russia. Yiddish is considered to be a kind of ancient West Germanic dialect but of course with a very strong Jewish influence.
This mix of people of all kind in Germany under some kind of vague cultural unity makes Germany strong. These people are very flexible and hard working and open to new developments if needed. It fits into our modern times.
Therefore do not overestimate the influx of demography in Germany. When there is the need to have more people in Germany then they will be invited to come. Germany is used to such things through all its history. They will always somehow manage. Or as a saying goes: When the Germans cant fix it who else?
p.s. the gold of Italys National Bank belongs to the big Italian commercial banks. Intesa San Paolo for example owns appx 30% of it but its actual book value in Intesa balance sheet is just a few huindred thousand Euros. Do not underestimate the Italians. Believe it or not the North Italians and South Germans are more or less the same kind. Mixed through and through since 2000 years.
Dear supermaxedout, reading books and getting at least some decent knowledge on what you are babbling about in regard to Germany would be a start. What an utter nonsense, beg your pardon!
You think so? Maybe you were just reading the wrong books. Fortunately there exist nowadays quite many historians, linguistic researchers and archeologists without political or religuos sun glasses. So its rather easy to distinguish between fairytales and facts if one is really interested in. However political fairytales (History) is what is usually teached in all schools around the world but the facts are in most cases different. History and what the people should believe is always a political construct and is very seldem coinciding with the reality.
My view on the things may sound exotic but that means only its not coinciding with what is presented as the truth by the "(hi-)story makers" of the past and present.
WTH?
Allemagne comes from Latin Alemania, which in turn comes from Aleman, a Germanic tribe that lived in today's Baden-Wuettenburg and Bavaria during Roman time
Ale man...tho I think they prefer lagers & pilsners...
Alamanii
The land was Germania, of course. This has remained in English and Italian. I wonder why the French, being their closest relationship with Germany via the Franks, name it by Allemagne.
Its true that the Alemannen were regarded as a tribe but they were a mix of many folks. Over time they developed an identity. The Alemannen became a huge and powerful "tribe" but they are already a blend of people. The biggest part of Switzerlands population is still speaking "Alemannisch" or at least how it sounds today.
Let´s our eyes on the ball here. Foreign policy madness always end up kicking you back in the balls, no need to worry about it.
Most (if not all) EU zone gold is "stored" at the NY Fed Reserve Bank. Possession is 99% of the law, ie. the US is holding the final trump card.
I read somewhere that 40% of german gold, was at the nyfrb
Consider the following
US Fed decides to make some extra cash from the euro gold it is storing at FRBNY and leases/sells this gold on the market (helping to depress price of gold & keeping world reserve currency looking strong on a relative basis).
They of course continue to charge the europeans for storing their gold even tho its been sold & not stored there any longer). In their wisdom, the Fed fully expect to be able to eventually replace the sold euro gold at a later date, when market conditions are more favorable.
In the meantime, if any European country asks the Fed for its gold back and the Fed can't talk them out of it as a "bad idea", well, the US have tons of gold at Fort Knox, so they can temporarily dip into the supply there to satisfy euro repatriation demand (and later replace the Fort Knox gold at a more opportune time when the market is "favorable").
This fractional reserve system works well since it generates extra income for the fed, allows them to manipulate the price of gold in relation to the world reserve currency, the Fed & Fort Knox are not subject to audit and it is very unlikely that all the big holders of gold who store it with the US Fed will simultaneously ask for it back at the same time...and if for some reason a gold bank run starts...the TOTUS will pull aside those leaders in private & tell them their gold has been lent out & isn't available to be returned at the moment but will eventually be replaced, but on the timetable of the US (& its military) and not when those leaders want or need it...
fwiw, I think the gold reported to be in Fort Knox is still there, but is essentially to cover for the FRBNY euro gold holdings that have been leased/sold in the market by the US Fed...
and for those euro leaders who won't simply take no for an answer...they'll be given directions to Fort Knox & West Point along with a complimentary bullet-proof vest & helmet.
Since WHEN the EU zone gold is being stored at the NY Fed Reserve bank? Upon the establishment of EU zone or long before that, after WW II? And WHY did the EU do that?
Moody's downgrades Cyrpus debt due to exposure on Greek sovereign and retail debt. How far behind can Italy and France be? http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/dcaad2d4-071e-11e1-8ccb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1cvRyhQRA
And don't forget Spain.
Beggar thy neighbor;
it's not just for the downtrodden anymore.
But...but..but...The Bernank said,"gold ain't money"....and Buffet warned,' you can't eat the Barbaric relic".....Little Timmy said,"we want a strong dollar"....
What's going on?
could it be that the bernank gave out a huge hint? american held gold could be taxed so heavily, to americans it would be useless to use as currency! of course, held out of america, it would be worth face value!
I think they'll end up with leased gold. Hugo gets Mommar's gold this month I think. Unless the boat sinks. Maybe the Germans could torpedo it and hire Odyssey to find Hugo's (Mommar's) gold and drive the price back down.
If you liesten to the media, Gold is shit and not worth owning. As soon as there is a real problem, all of a sudden Gold is the place to look. Mr. Bernanke says Gold is not money so why do they want Gold rather than money. Maybe the fool can explain this to Ron Paul, I would love to listen to that exchange.
When it comes to "YOUR" gold (PM's), if you don't hold it, you don't own it. The Worlds Economic system is completely leveraged (PONZI). Accept it, or get out of it. I choose to get out of it (PM's).
Why, lookie there, the antisemite trolls wasted half a page of people's time and energy... again.
Guess some employer doesn't like this discussion.
There was an eartquake in Oklahoma ! 5.6 Richter scale , largest ever recorded there . My daughter lives in Miami Ok. Whole house shook , ever increasing vibrations .
Hmmm.. Birth Pangs .
Gold won't save one from an earthquake . Maybe not even a financial one . A word to the wise is extrannous .
i am curious.
are they fracking rock for NG wells in the region?
I do not see why the Fed can not take on the EU debts surrepticiously. There is no Rule of Law for the Elite 1%.
I am sure there is some accounting trick to facilitate this action.
Central Planning can not let this opportunity pass to increase the power of the elite few.
That is far better action than war for the society owners at this point.
//Bundesbank reserves -- including foreign currency and gold -- would be used to increase Germany's contribution to the crisis fund//
I thought they told us that gold wasn't money? Why are they increasing the crisis fund with non-money? How does that increase the value of the fund?
I'm confused!!!!!
Adolf Hitler would have chuckled then called the SS and Gestapo to accelerate matters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8aVwgw2Zlo
Hitler was funded by the same soon to be in hell bastards!
You mean the Jews?
Now we know what they really want, because the end game is crystal clear. Grab all the gold, then print like mad. Got physical? You'd better. The writing is on the wall.
No atheists in fox holes. No paper bugs in a debt collapse.
Not so. It can be argued that atheists dig better fox holes too.
This G20.....
Whom do they represent.???
Oviously NOT the people.
...It seems these G20 are world terrorist that need to be abolished,and disapeared.
Ahh, when the lip-service jive talkin' ends....then we get down to GOLD my friends. The money must be running out for all those fancy hotel stays and good eats over there. Strange silence re Spain right now: Must be lookin' for a Columbus to go find 'em some gold again. Good luck with that this time.
A special currency,a powerful weapon.....a SDR.
Look mommy,
It's a bird.
No it's a plane.
No it's a SuperDollarRetaard.
tomorrow's headline:
G-20 Demands 401K'S, Pensions, To Keep Eurozone Intact; Fed Asks, "To Whom Do We Make The Check Out To?"To the Swiss banks of course!
Tradition Rulez!!!
Treaties? We don't need no stinkin' treaties!!
OT:
http://www.infowars.com/us-sources-israel-ministers-who-opposed-iran-strike-are-now-for-it/
http://www.infowars.com/u-s-military-official-we-are-concerned-israel-will-not-warn-us-before-iran-attack/
http://www.infowars.com/israels-peres-warns-attack-on-iran-getting-closer/
there should be a preemptive strike.............against Israel
If there is no room in your big, brave Socialist world for the little state of Israel......there's no room for anyone ? Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Habitat and Lebensraum for Jews and Coptic Christians
“Olive Oil Crisis” – G-20 Wants Germany to Contribute Gold to the Crisis Fund – Germany Says “Nein!”
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com
Look at the charts of Greek and Italian 5 yr CDS as of today.
What will the craziness in Europe bring this week?
http://www.projectworldawareness.com/2010/08/preparing-for-world-war-iii...
Priceless comments from Germans reading the FAZ article:
"The Sarkozy as an agent of the bankrupt association "Club Med + Portugal" on such an idea comes, is a matter of course!"
"The euro, which is VERSAILLES NO WAR"
"If Merkel & Co. now want to take the gold reserves of the Bundesbank to the European shambles, they violate our rule."
'Our pot of gold' was constructed with the D-Mark"
"Germany is in the worst crisis of his life story - similar to 1810, when many political responsibility felt compelled to give up sovereignty in favor of a French-German-dominated Europe."
"The Greeks have their own gold, and so must pay their own debts.
The Greeks have largely caused the problem and must therefore also liable relevant!"
translated with google...there are 27 pages of comments to that FAZ article
Are you gonna go my way?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLhpHjmxNw8
A mindless mix of Hitler Youth, Gestapo, Flower Children and OWS ! You're hoping these pretty little darlings will lead us out of the wilderness ? We are doomed ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Laugh In Going Nowhere Good
While we're all focused on who if anyone gets Germany's gold (how likely is that?) let's not forget that Chavez is in the process of repatriating Venezuela's gold, others are doing the same quietly, and China has set out to corner the world's market by allowing its citizens to buy the world's total above ground supply one gram at a time. Itlooks like at least some people have decided that holding the gold is the right thing to do. Wonder how Germany is going to squeeze its gold out of the NY Fed? That's should be some worthwhile video footage.
China is getting ready to back the next world's currency with it's gold and ours.
Castro and Chavez sign agreement for their simultaneous, mutual tumor transplants on reality TV ! Proceeds to Greek Bailout Fund Bunds ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Fantasy Headlines
Now that's a set of Mountain Oysters if ever I saw one
Why back stop it with a Barbaric Relic?.
Germany better start militarizing again, they ar going to need a way to protect their country.
The G20 can go screw a Guinea.
Tyler are you taking this sunday off or what?
I dont think he's taking the day off, I think he's got so much shit to work through before posting that its giving him a massive headache dealing with it and thinking it through, Probably see 6 posts within an 2 hour span by 8pm tonight.
Just my meandering thoughts.
All our Gold and Tungsten is backed by Uranium and Deuterium and Tritium ! Come and get it ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Stick It In The Little Hole G-20
DU might also make good gold counterfeiting material...
Ugh, the insanity of all this. I think I just want to barter.
Was just a bit of levity.. there is no way out of the wilderness except with sweat, pain, and agony - then there is also death...
Never underestimate the capability of youth, indeed, most productive movements have come from the youth - the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, as futile as it was, gave hope to the Jewish clan in their darkest hour...
Can we just admit already that these G-20 sessions are just press junkets? It's a job perk. Nothing is actually decided or discussed.
As long as we have the € ...
- Working with lies and deceit
- The law is undermined
- We are blackmailed around the Clock
- Member of Parliament to be put under pressure
- Are good economists of their posts being bullied
- No confidence in the currency as
- Continues the sellout of our Republic
- We have every day a little further in socialism
That a fund that would receive an impact force of a billion euros, can not even borrow three billion euros, is the reason why Merkozy eye on the German gold. Investors simply have no interest in the EFSF. Therefore, the politicians grab at straws now that can improve the financial strength of the EFSF. End of October have drawn the fractions of Union, SPD, FDP and Greens together two red lines for the euro rescue: The German guarantees for the EFSF should not exceed the previous limit of 211 billion euros. And secondly, the central banks may not be used to combat the crisis. Both specifications are not compatible with the plan to make use of international reserves. Only a veto by Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann, Merkel's former economic adviser, has prevented clear that a new stage of States funding is introduced by the central bank balance sheets. Therefore, it could make Merkozy (still) no.
I could write forever but now here bears no solution at.
The psychopathological assessment of current policies and their background (the structure of financial markets) come to the diagnosis of "mania". Megalomania of up to (self-) destruction are all symptoms of this disease in the current action of the main actors of Ackermann Sarkozy to analyze. It has managed the financial industry, not just the European politician, led the bonsai Napoleon and his entourage, the rhetorical bubble to float in front of them. They have - just as an example - the gamblers of the financial markets a new game table of colossal dimensions, and reared with incalculable risks for the beautiful name of "rescue" invented a unique hallucinations. To establish further findings on the subject of an investigation mania is recommended. The question remains: Which doctors act as therapists? The relevant constitutional bodies (parliaments) have, unfortunately, language, intelligence and good sense are lost. I do not know - despite all the skepticism I share here - but my first thoughts were like, Wow, the first all-in poker tournament in the world. I'm certainly no expert in debts, I found the comments but can that be a large part of "our" gold reserves in the basement on the other side of the Atlantic. If they are still there at all and if we get there at all access. But now that the Americans just demand an even higher again, sacrificial commitment from us in the euro crisis, how can they deny access still exist? And what if the ball game now finally lie back in New York remains, and the Americans suddenly a small gold-delivery problem
have. Maybe this is just a warning shot across the bow of those who really hold the biggest bluff in his hand. But maybe that's just my hope, and misconception of reality.
Merkel pulls the sheet
The Chancellor incompetent - unfit not because they were weak decision, but because they simply do not overlook what they did to damage - covers the long arc of endurance. This woman can by unscrupulous European "friends" ever again draw on the table, instead of these Nassauer once and for always clear that the (still) largest economy in Europe is tired of the sloppiness of other countries with money and gold to its citizens iron out. If the others think they can continue to conduct routine, because the German government so stupid anyway accept any suggestion put to her rescue, then we must set a crystal clear signal against them, and Brussels. This can only be: Let this evil sub Nassauerei, or make your own stuff! Officially, this Parliament and this government still in Germany or the German people are sworn. If an attempt is now by some German and French maneuverings, the pot of gold, the property of the German people, blaming the ECB, infidelity or worse (the term treason is unfortunately complex) is given. A chancellor, who is this (volume of EUR 15 billion) maintains "covered", rather than to profess openly denied, their work and must resign immediately. Either she really knows nothing, then it is incompetent and is dismissed. Or is it part of the conspiracy. For this they would immediately lose their immunity and are sentenced to the maximum penalty. Such behavior I would not even want to put a government in the most disdained by me parties. Meet the allegations, then the tablecloth between the sovereign (German people) and "his" government is irrevocably severed.
PLEASE EXCUSE ANY GRAMMAR MISTAKES!