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Game Over Berlusconi? Italian Anti-Crisis Bill Fails

Tyler Durden's picture


Europe's core, call it Germany, is now caught in a war of reverse attrition on three fronts: with Greece, with Italy, and as of today, with France. And unfortunately for the European monetary union, Europe, call it Germany, is losing. While the focus continues to be on G-Pap for the second day in a row following his shocking referendum announcement, the real diversion remains Italy, where the government is in as much of a state of chaos as that in Athens, and whose bonds, while not yet trading at Greek levels  (remember when the Greek 1 year hit 100% two months ago? Today it is at 225%... and tomorrow the two year will be at 100%), are far, far greater in amount, and the only thing preventing their collapse so far has been the ECB, whose monetizing assistance has been contingent on Italy passing and enforcing austerity measures to deal with its runaway debt to GDP of over 120%. Unfortunately, when BTPs open for trading in 7 hours, the ECB bid may not be there, or any bid for that matter, because as the WSJ reports, "Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday failed to issue growth-boosting measures demanded by European Union authorities ahead of the Group of 20 summit, raising further doubts about the government's willingness to pass economic reforms aimed at restoring investor confidence in the country." Now that the ejection of Greece is virtually certain, perhaps it would be a prudent idea for what little remains of the healthy European core to kick out all the stragglers before everything becomes infected, and before French bonds trade at yields indicative of a sub-IG credit, thus ending the myth of any European union for good?

Here is what Bunga has achieved so far:

Mr. Berlusconi's cabinet late Wednesday approved a plan to sell state property, slash red tape and roll out infrastructure projects, according to people familiar with the matter, in a bid to cut Italy's €1.9 trillion ($2.6 trillion) debt and revive economic growth.

The plan, however, does not include measures to address the chronic structural weaknesses—such as heavy labor regulation and high taxes—that European officials and investors blame for Italy's economic stagnation, the people said. That means Mr. Berlusconi will head to the Group of 20 in Cannes, France, on Thursday without concrete measures to assuage the concerns of EU leaders.

We use the term achieve very loosely as he still has to pass it through parliament. And for now, all signs point to no:

It is also unclear whether Mr. Berlusconi can muster the political support to pass in parliament the meager plan approved Wednesday. Earlier in the day, Italian officials drafted a government decree that would have implemented the measures with immediate effect, said the people familiar with the matter. By the time Mr. Berlusconi's cabinet convened in the evening, however, officials had shelved the draft. Mr. Berlusconi's foot-dragging is likely to erode support for his government and increase tensions with Italy's head of state, President Giorgio Napolitano, who has called for immediate reforms and wields the power to dissolve parliament.


On Wednesday, Mr. Napolitano held meetings with lawmakers across the political spectrum to see if Mr. Berlusconi's majority has the political support to push tough reforms through parliament.


Analysts interpreted the meetings as a sign that Mr. Napolitano might throw his support behind lawmakers who have called for a government of technocrats to replace the premier.

A referendum for everyone: first in Greece, next, in Italy.

"The technical government option is what I think everyone, except Berlusconi, wants," said Duncan McDonnell, an political analyst at the Florence-based European University Institute.

Granted, Italy, unlike Greece, just may pull a deus ex. But bond investors will likely not stick around to find out.

Investors are shunning Italian bonds, concerned the country's rising borrowing costs will make it nearly impossible for it to pay down its debt, which is currently equivalent to 120% of GDP.

And to think it was precisely one week ago that Europe got bailed out. Here is how Italian banks have fared since the day we said only idiots will believe the "bailout" for more than a few hours.


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Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:18 | 1839299 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The game is falling apart.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:29 | 1839334 Arius
Arius's picture

I am not sure how to interpret this, Euro positive or negative .... but again, what do i know right?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:35 | 1839362 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Short the living crap out of the Euro, banks, China, real estate, building materials, etc.... That's how you interpret it.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:51 | 1839426 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

Nailed it.  Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:26 | 1839505 ratso
ratso's picture

The real money is in the T-shirts.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:03 | 1839609 Melin
Melin's picture

Thank you Clifford.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:28 | 1839678 redpill
redpill's picture

There once was a PM named Sil
He loved to party but not pay the bill
His new law won't pass
Upset, he searched for a lass
And found a young girl named Jill

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:50 | 1839733 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Nigel Farage for US President 2012.

If we can have a born British subject son of an alcoholic, vehicular homicidal Kenyan for president, we can have a respectable British subject M.E.P. for one as well.  

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:09 | 1839921 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

EU Politicians seeking solutions ...

I mean, after all, if I keep going up the tree, there must be more fruit!



DISCLOSURE: Oh, fuck. This is the top. How the fuck do I get down ... and why do all those goats down there have rifles ... (cue Iran invasion) ...

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 02:54 | 1839981 Michael
Michael's picture

I should be in my glory right now. I'm working on it.

Thank you Greece, and love you too Iceland.

The 5% who own or control 80% of everything will no longer be able to suck 80% of the peoples productivity and products we produce for themselves with their failed monetary system ponzi scheme any more.

That 5% will just have to live on whatever savings they will have left after the great world wide default... or get a job.


Thu, 11/03/2011 - 03:29 | 1839990 Michael
Michael's picture

Looks like the Greeks have a little more testicular fortitude than we gave them credit for.

Let me be the first to apologize for a nation.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 03:41 | 1839997 Michael
Michael's picture

My biggest concern this evening is the loud drumbeat to start a war with Iran.

Great Britain has said it would join the war if the US does.

Israel would begin the attack and the rest would join in.

The outcome I foresee is that the entire strip of land west of the West Bank will be exploded into the Mediterranean.

There, nobody gets anything now. Satisfied?

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 05:03 | 1840021 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

can't speak for the mood in the us at the moment, but over in blighty, if it was to be announced you'd have more social unrest than we've probably seen in 100 years long false flag terror??

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:15 | 1839782 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Thanks, Cliff. Excellent. Love me some Nigel. If there were more like him, I might actually have some hope that we can turn things around. Unfortunately, I think we've gone off the cliff and are currently admiring the view.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1839436 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

I show my support of your statement with a large helping of FAZ (despite the fact it got lit up today).

My t-shirt says "I own FAZ and the F stands for..."

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:04 | 1839612 Davalicious
Davalicious's picture

>My t-shirt says "I own FAZ and the F stands for..."

Are your counter parties going to be around in the event the-shit-hits-the-fan?

Gold bitchez!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:34 | 1839528 Melin
Melin's picture

I'm not sure if the mechanics of this is even possible but if you're in EUO and the Euro goes to zero, you're cooked, no? 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:19 | 1839646 J 457
J 457's picture

If only it was that easy, speaking for someone who went through October with short positions.  I'm still in and want my profit back. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:38 | 1839374 arkady
arkady's picture

It should be negative as this implies that at some point sooner or later European banks will be taking amssive losses on Italian debt.   There is really nothing positive that can come out of this.


Either there are haircuts and bailouts (postponed pain) or..

exiting of the euro and debts being entirely defaulted (immediate pain).


Europe thinks they can get something for nothing, but that is not possible.  They borrowed from the future to live in the present, the future is here and demanding to be paid.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:26 | 1839504 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

They borrowed from the future to live in the present, the future is here and demanding to be paid.

Also known as the white trash dream.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:36 | 1839538 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i tend to agree with the trash but the white seems too limiting.

or as i said to my dog tonight, your species is better than ours.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:33 | 1839948 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Indeed, and ponder this,  dog is god spelled backwards.  Thus, I'm a confirmed doggist.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:10 | 1839475 bobert
bobert's picture

Very positive in the long run.

A lot of risk in the mean time.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:34 | 1839355 lairdwd
lairdwd's picture

Let's see how long those bitches can hold gold down with this.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1839401 paarsons
paarsons's picture

If Italy and Greece shit the bed, then what you'll have is pretty bad deflation.

Gold doesn't thrive in a deflationary period.  You'll end up losing money.

But what do I know?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:06 | 1839457 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Nope. I'll have the same amount of gold as before the deflation.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:27 | 1839508 mynhair
mynhair's picture

If you don't play the paper, you have to work to buy more.

I hate 4 letter words, so fuk off.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:34 | 1839529 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

I'll have more because I'll keep some dry powder for when it really goes on sale and then load up before the hyperinflation element of this cycle kicks in.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 07:25 | 1840101 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

The 1930's were quite deflationary and gold did quite well. In fact, gold miners were the best performing stocks, by far, during those years.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 05:05 | 1840024 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I call one more mini correction, and no gold $2000 for a while...

Gold 1500 and silver $28-30...I think we'll have another look at those prices

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:37 | 1839369 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

It sure is, CNBC was talking alot about Italy and that Italy is whats important right now.  Berlusconi won't get anything passed that will make any major changes.  To be honest sooner or later they are just going to say see ya and kick the Greeks and Italy and whomever on the edges out and just hope for the best and protect their banks.  This is truly falling apart.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:28 | 1839478 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Yep. It should soon dawn on the EU and the international banksters that they can not tolerate a Greek referendum. Period. 

Not in January. Not in December. Not in November.

Regardless of whether the Greeks vote Yes or No on the referendum, the precedent set by having a REFERENDUM will put a stake into the heart of the international bankster vampire.

If Greece sets a precedent by voting on the Faustian bargain, TPTB know the game is up, and the Genie is out of the bottle, 

As soon as the EU, IMF, and G-20 wake from their last hurrah in Cannes, they will realize the ONLY solution that serves their Masters of International Banksters, is to throw Greece out of the EU before the referendum. Same for Italy if Italy announces a referendum.

Yes, it will be bitter medicine, even for the banks, but the alternative of allowing referendums is sure death to EU and the banks.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:30 | 1839640 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture



The Euro is falling apart

The US will soon play its part

The can's hit the wall

Our system will fall

A turd always follows a fart.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:59 | 1839753 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Nonsense. "Here I sit all broken hearted, came to shit and merely farted."

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:13 | 1839924 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Signed copy of Bold Fressh for YOU!

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 05:01 | 1840020 whirlybird rules
whirlybird rules's picture



Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:12 | 1839483 topcallingtroll
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The Italians are no better than the greeks. Italy dropping out of the euro is virtually guaranteed. You cannot stop a spendthrift wirh threats. You have to cut off their access to credit.

Spain and Portugal, surprisingly, seem to at least be trying.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:28 | 1839512 Mark123
Mark123's picture


There are good people in Spain, but sadly their system is completely corrupt.  I would imagine that when all this settles out there will be so much corruption uncovered it won't be funny.


Italy is just as corrupt from what I see, but they do have more of a balanced economy.  Spain went all in on the property bubble, so they have more pain a coming!

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:27 | 1839884 Seer
Seer's picture

The very nature of the system, and I'm talking about the Global System, IS corruption.  The corruption is of our sensibilities, it relies on us pretending that the world isn't finite.  If you fail on this point then all else is just made-up fantasy, and we know that fantasies are just that, fantasies.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:34 | 1839527 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Trying to get it hard enuf to stick the tip in ....

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 06:37 | 1840063 itstippy
itstippy's picture

That's silly. 

Those of us following the action on the newswires or ZH for the past few months know that Greece has, at different times, received solid bailout commitments from Japan, China, the ECB, Brazil, Russia, Sudan, and Bangladesh.  Unnamed government officials from Dubai and Libya have also committed unlimited support from sovereign wealth funds, as has Prince Allaweed.  It's all been reported here on ZH as it was released on the major newswires. 

Greece has many, many funding options.  Italy would have the same.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:50 | 1839418 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Yep and I hope it just keeps falling and along with it goes this Ponzi scheme.  Until this game ends there will never be a chance for a real recovery.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:31 | 1839893 Seer
Seer's picture

I don't require any "hope," as it WILL come crashing down.  Simple math...

But, what is a "real recovery?"  Can you qualify what this would be?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:02 | 1839449 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

The fat lady is finally singing.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:12 | 1839485 bobert
bobert's picture

Seems to be the case.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:47 | 1839567 mynhair
Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:33 | 1839947 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

The Indian fat lady is singing,

BANGALORE, Nov 3 (Reuters) - India's service sector contracted for a second straight month in October, as new business grew at its weakest pace since May 2009, a survey showed on Thursday, dragged by sagging global demand and tight monetary policy.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:43 | 1839953 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Lying is the Global language.

By Takeshi Awaji and Aya Takada

(Updates with Mainichi report in fourth paragraph.)

Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the No. 2 reactor at its destroyed Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear station isn’t in a critical state after the company detected signs of nuclear fission.

The discovery of xenon, announced yesterday, at the plant was caused by “natural” nuclear fission, Junichi Matsumoto, a general manager at the company known as Tepco, said today at a press briefing in Tokyo.

That's right it's Natural, let me put that in quotes "natural"  as in "It's natural  to have nuclear fission occur in your childs sand box"

happens all the time.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:06 | 1839458 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Yep, and for any of you guys who see the big picture, you need to at least know about this site:

Bye the way, LJ, you're not the indie record promoter LJ are you?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:14 | 1839488 Belarus
Belarus's picture

This is the crux of exactly why the German's were NEVEr going to go all-in on cross border soveriegns. Had they, it's them that ultimately has the problem. 

But Greece leaving the EZ is a bit pre-mature, no?  

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:36 | 1839895 Seer
Seer's picture

Who knows whether this is just a way to create a new global currency or not, but it's a certainty that the existing system is totally unable to reconcile its current books.

The music has stopped and there's not enough chairs.  But everyone is running around singing, pretending that the music is still playing.  Trouble is is that the singing is really poor and it's only a matter of time before the rest of the world hits the gong.

I'd be interested in seeing what the other "stable" nations export to Greece.  These would be the things to short: Greece won't be importing much for a while...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:35 | 1839536 Catman
Catman's picture


Thu, 11/03/2011 - 04:52 | 1840015 whirlybird rules
whirlybird rules's picture

heck of a central bank brawl this morning - PIF!  BAM!   wonder how G-Pap will sell the referendum to his people?   "this is good for you!"  (?!?)   when is the last time someone gave you something, except for your parents- maybe, that was solely for your own interest???     

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:18 | 1839300 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture


Ohio Dem backs call to ‘occupy foreclosures’
A vote by “Occupy Oakland” earlier this week called on homeless Americans to begin occupying foreclosed and abandoned structures as squatters — and Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) couldn’t be happier.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:40 | 1839899 Seer
Seer's picture

People have been doing this for years now.  I wish folks would stop trying to get politicians to do stuff...

Anyway, this solves NOTHING.  Corporations will just write off losses and the taxpayers will pick them up.

Slinky down the stairs.  Gravity is in charge now.  Everything else is just theatre.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:19 | 1839301 Bruin4
Bruin4's picture

Como sciamo cadutti in basso....Stand up you fukin Italian assholes ...stand up tell the banks to go fuk themselves...come on do it! Be the first, before the Greek vote....back to the Lira, back to sanity

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:38 | 1839366 Arius
Arius's picture

italiani suono buoni per mangere macaroni ...

pote kune to canoni lashare to pantaloni....

i suppose you understand italians are good to mangare macaroni/pasta and in the next sentence canon connected with pantalons/pans....

i gave you a green!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:25 | 1839303 greyghost
greyghost's picture

well now, we will see if german leaders are as tough as the german army was up to the end during world war two. something tells me not so much.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:17 | 1839491 bobert
bobert's picture

They will be fine on their own.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:21 | 1839308 chump666
chump666's picture

You would think Germany would learn from history, "three fronts". ZH is right Italy government collapses, Italy may go with Greece.

Warning sign to the market was Italy crap bond auction week or so back.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:24 | 1839322 greyghost
greyghost's picture

the germans are used to it......not so much the boys of italy. will be interesting what the germans do over the long haul.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:46 | 1839907 chump666
chump666's picture

Or Communist history, like government cartels trying to keep support asset prices ad infitium.  They collapse. 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:22 | 1839311 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

remember that Merkel caption contest.. It should read, "How much non-German leaders fuck me over everyday".


Sarkozy betraying ungela is the center square in my Europocalypse bingo card.  I Almost have bingo.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:25 | 1839312 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

How long before the Italian debt spread breaks 450 points and the margins are raised and all the banks in Europe go kaboom?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:22 | 1839313 nmewn
nmewn's picture

All quiet on the western front.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 06:57 | 1840071 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Are the guns of August early or still to come?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:23 | 1839316 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Only a politician can come up with this plan:

First: enter the EU and Euro

Second: mess things up

Third: ask people if they in fact wanted to join the EU and Euro in the first place

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:30 | 1839343 Mark123
Mark123's picture

I would adjust slightly:

First: enter the EU and Euro

Second: mess things up

Third: Ask people to forget points 1 and 2, and carry on f--king things up.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:23 | 1839317 devo
devo's picture

We're looking at a lost decade. I just hope it's not two. I'm in my working prime.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:30 | 1839344 Bruin4
Bruin4's picture

just a decade.....sorry thats optimistic at this point, how many zero's in 32 trillion? 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1839400 devo
devo's picture

Yeah, but we're almost 4 years into the housing collapse, right? So another decade would be 14 years...

I'm guessing if Obama is reelected then everything falls to shit. If Romney gets it he'll kick the can and it will be two lost decades. Good thing about a two-term president is they have nothing to lose that second term. Obama can let the depression happen.

Not that I advocate or look forward to depression, but it is inevitable and being made worse. I just want it over with.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:04 | 1839452 Cdad
Cdad's picture

It's a beautiful world we live, a sweet romantic place....

...but the depression is what it is, and it needs to simply happen to correct the malinvestment that has putrefied the system.  To that end, I agree...let's just get on with it and be that true recovery can begin. 

When all of these corrupt banks are sporting single digit share prices, and threatening zero, we will know we're finally on the road to recovery.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:21 | 1839498 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Ultimately you cannot stop the business cycle. We have probably 18 years of stagflation before we will see the kondratiev spring.

The only significant growth will be third world growth during this time. Our politicians are too self interested and the average dumbphuck voter too stupid and selfish to do the right thing.

But we will muddle through with a long, soft depression as Bill Bonner has described it. It aint that bad for the majority, but most of us have had to give up our dreams of riches and even start worrying about basics such as retirement and paying for kids colleges.

The nineties were more fun. What a decade! Not a worry in the world.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:27 | 1839509 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Oil won't give you 18 yrs.

It certainly won't give you more than 18.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:46 | 1839905 Seer
Seer's picture

Ha ha... business cycles, ha ha...

Oil is the BIG END to what's been one big Cycle.

And with this in mind there's ZERO chance of any salvation from third world countries.  Yeah, ramp up their energy consumption so that we in the "first world" can get back on our feet and consume more of it ourselves.  For fucks' sake, people, quit the hope shit and stick to logic and reality.  Put a fork in this thing...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:36 | 1839542 devo
devo's picture

The 90s were my favorite decade. I was in high school at the time and just entering the work force, but I loved the vibe.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 01:54 | 1839960 acttang
acttang's picture

By the time we are through, they'd call our recovery a third world growth story...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:29 | 1839516 devo
devo's picture

Death by 1,000 paper cuts.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:49 | 1839569 rosex229
rosex229's picture

we will enter a depression, but it s not something that will just be over and done with. yes, a massive amount of debts at the public, corporate, and governmental level cannot be reapid, must default/print the debts away, and yes, that will result in a depression. likely to begin like in 2008 as a deflationary depression, but once loss of faith in certain currencies takes hold will become a hyperinflationaary depression. after these debts have been wiped away, and the economy begins to grow again it will simply bump up against a declining oil supply. prices will spike, and economies will again br brought to their knees. 

this isn't a one off event that is occurring; this is the collapse of industrial civilization. it will take quite a long time to unfold, but will have periods of puncuated equilibrium between periods of relative calm. the unusual actions in the markets since 2008 will become the norm, and people will in fact forget that wild market swings were once unusual. 

these issues will still be playing out decades from now becaue oil took 150 million years to form, but the entire existing stock has been half depleted in only 150 years.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:59 | 1839593 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

You are right Cdad.  I am blessed with an easy spirit when it comes to being organically satisfied . . . a book of Magick underneath the bow, a loaf of hash, a jub of wine . . . a Triple Inverse ETF or two . . .

The flowers shall still bloom and the SF Bay was blessed with a beautiful Indian Summer this year.  As I keep telling my wife our problems when they come are usually political or electronic in nature . . . a rill in the air, not much more...


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:15 | 1839636 Potemkin Nation
Potemkin Nation's picture

A jub of wine sounds like something out of Jabberwocky.  chug-a-lug, chug-a-loo!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:25 | 1839667 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

been California here in Upstate NY this year as well. Haven't seen anything like it since 1998. What's a "loaf of hash" anyways? Is that like a potato thing?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:46 | 1839565 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

The death of fiat will not be a lost decade. The reset will be much more than that, and will likely involve some sort of war.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:49 | 1839416 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i think we are already working on the 2ND decade as we speak

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:36 | 1839519 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Agree on lost decade. As for me, I am making hay directly off of the economic mess here in USA. Never been better. Reposition as needed folks, the sooner the better. Cut costs, liquidate everything you don't need Don't drag your feet. Git er done. Hard Times ahead.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:25 | 1839323 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Don't worry, China to the rescue!

  • China's vice finance minister says EFSF bonds are already included in China's FX portfolio
  • China's vice finance minister says we have confidence in Europe
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1839403 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Apparently people don't understand it was sarcasm...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:51 | 1839422 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

China's been willing to invest in legal tinder from the USSA.  Doesn't Euro tinder burn just as well?  I fail to see the difference.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:25 | 1839327 sunny
sunny's picture

None of this matters.  Bad news is irrelevant.  The markets will continue to fly high.  Who knows, Benny might throw some more QE at us.  Next week, next month, next year, doesn't matter when.  Until then the markets will soar on the hope and what goes on in Europe doesn't matter.  Dow up 178 today!  Hurray!!!


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:32 | 1839349 devo
devo's picture

I doubt it. When swing traders are indifferent to missing the upside you know it's a bear market. That's the sentiment now.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:30 | 1839801 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Bingo- I just averaged down a bit today, didn't even momentarily occur to me that we're going substantially higher anytime soon.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:04 | 1839432 maxmad
maxmad's picture

None of this matters.  Bad news is irrelevant.  The markets will continue to fly high.  Who knows, Benny might throw some more QE at us.  Next week, next month, next year, doesn't matter when.  Until then the markets will soar on the hope and what goes on in Europe doesn't matter.  Dow up 178 today!  Hurray!!!



Nice....... Dow futures down another 100 overnight... The bulls are getting Italian F--ed!!!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:23 | 1839500 bobert
bobert's picture

"fly high"

Kind of doubt that.

Swing like a pendulum do.....yup.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:35 | 1839329 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Let's hope we're seeing the end of the EMU.

It's abundantly clear now EMU is just another way for bankers to make money lending responsible nations' wealth to irresponsible nations.

Maybe I'll get lucky and live to see two major currencies collapse:  Euro and USD.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:14 | 1839489 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

boy you are cranky.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 04:32 | 1840008 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

In all the bad news you made me laugh - thanks!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:26 | 1839503 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

No way.

The euro collapse will make the dollar even stronger and our rates even lower.

The dollar is king along with its derivative the remninbi.

European fuckups have guaranteed another generation of dollar hegemony, at least.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:56 | 1839587 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

It does look as if the dollar is going to be the last domino to fall.

As China's economy grows, the link between the dollar and the renminbi will become looser and looser.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 00:31 | 1839891 fourchan
fourchan's picture

china is fucked 1 billion people strong.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:08 | 1839615 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



American government and banking system collapses or USD collapses from Fed trying to keep American government and banking system afloat.

Take your pick.

My bet is on USD collapsing.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:21 | 1839653 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

No, the bankers are the lenders, and they conjure the money out of thin air. There is no wealth involved at that time.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:18 | 1839786 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



You obviously know nothing about monetary theory and how currencies work.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:23 | 1839792 pods
pods's picture

The wealth only comes in when the interest is due!

Of course we all know the direction of wealth flow.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:26 | 1839331 Mark123
Mark123's picture

tic tic tic....


send in the bomb squad

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:35 | 1839358 maxmad
maxmad's picture

this is it Ladies!!!  Game Over, bitchez!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:41 | 1839384 maxmad
maxmad's picture

The CDS collapse is tomorrow!!!!!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:55 | 1839433 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Greeze collapse on Monday.

I hope they leave Novi 9 & 10 open for YU55 watching. It's going to be awesome.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:29 | 1839336 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

do robots have "investor confidence"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:30 | 1839341 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

Italy owes a ton of money to France. If Italy goes, France is in real trouble.

Dominos all in a row.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:32 | 1839351 Mark123
Mark123's picture

poor little King Sarkozy...I hope he makes out OK.  Sure would hate to see that guy suffer.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:16 | 1839783 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You mean Nikolas the Hun?  A far cry from his ancestor Atilla!  Shows what a thousand years of inbreeding can do to the species.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:08 | 1839463 Bruin4
Bruin4's picture





Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:31 | 1839347 Destinapp
Destinapp's picture

This funny Hitler video sums it all up:



Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:34 | 1839354 Zero Bid
Zero Bid's picture

gobba me nel culo di capra!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:37 | 1839367 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


“But the fact of it was that I liked it out there, a ruin devoid of human vanities, clean of human illusions, an empty place reclaimed by the weather where a woman plays an organ to stop the wind's whining and an old man plays ball with a dog named Duke. I could tell you that I came back because I had promises to keep, but maybe it was because nobody asked me to stay. ”Joan Didion

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 08:14 | 1840255 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Past visions of imminent apocalypse (whether Daniel or Yates) never came to pass. This time won't be different. The circus will move on.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:40 | 1839380 binky
binky's picture


Remember Leo, -- the poor, dumb, son-of-a-bitch -- he did have a couple of good ideas. One was to monitor Recently he mentioned Greeks and debt repudiation. About a week and a half later G-Pap-smear seems to have taken it seriously. Italy, Portugal, Spain and Ireland will ultimately be forced to do the same.

Things are indeed heating up. Gonna be hotter than a billy goat in a pepper patch.

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 02:47 | 1839978 jomama
jomama's picture

he got real mad at me when i called him on his love fantasy of a Ménage à trois between him, Yves Smith, and Paul Krugman.  For the life of me, I can't understand why.  I was just trying to be a good wingman.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:41 | 1839381 tim73
Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:43 | 1839390 tim73
tim73's picture

I said do not listen  it :)

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:50 | 1839421 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Veni. Vidi. Vidi. Vidi. Vidi. Vidi.


Then I tore out my eyeballs, and permanently deafened myself.



Sorry... please explain the references, I couldn't get them whilst self-harming.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:43 | 1839556 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I came, I saw, I tore my eyes out so as to not see it again ;-)

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:01 | 1839443 fuu
fuu's picture

Nice to see Robot Traders Mom working again.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:35 | 1839702 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

4th St @ 5th Ave again?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:57 | 1839749 fuu
fuu's picture

Watch the video, she's the one in the middle.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:42 | 1839386 Misean
Misean's picture

Well at least one of the fronts isn't Russia. That should free up sufficient Panzer divisions to hold the Gustav line, as long as the bond vigilantes don't hit Normandy...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:42 | 1839387 bcecil
bcecil's picture

5000 protestors live in Oakland right now.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:59 | 1839598 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Where are the nukes when you need them?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:26 | 1839672 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

game, set,!

the mayor of j_oakland and the po_leece chief toured the #_Occupation and made little speeches, earlier

wild, wild west...

the mayor said she thought the protesters were ok, and she saw some of her teacher-friends in the peaceful crowds, and so on

the po_leece chief said that the #_Occupiers had better police themselves and keep the people who were obviosly looking for trouble in line, or he and his policia would kick everybody's fuking ass, BiCheZ! 

Thu, 11/03/2011 - 08:22 | 1840317 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Rope-a-dope. Clever!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:44 | 1839395 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

I love that word " crisis "  a crisis can be fix ..The E U Z  is dead. .. B R O K E .. more debit in not bring it back to life.

good fear to keep stocks on the husel at best

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:45 | 1839396 kito
kito's picture

i need one day of stock market reality to get ahead in my DOG purchases. will tomorrow be the day?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1839402 Matt1973
Matt1973's picture

Or....DXD calls !

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:39 | 1839549 Gene8696
Gene8696's picture

Give me a day first... Then you can have two.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1839405 navy62802
navy62802's picture

This situation is quickly turning into a botched abortion.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1839406 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Ferrari gone Fiat?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1839412 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

Berlusconi should sing Italian love songs to the French while he is sticking it to them.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:50 | 1839420 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

It's pretty hairy out there sir.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:52 | 1839427 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Folks, with Bernanke in charge, why do you worry? Just buy on any dip!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:01 | 1839447 maxmad
maxmad's picture

No we're all done buying.... You buy DIP!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1839437 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

It's time for Europe to come clean: "Napoleon was cool. Hitler and the Kaiser sucked ass." Phuck you Germany. Time for "reverse invading." And why should they complain really? There's always Sweden!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:33 | 1839525 bobert
bobert's picture


I hope you don't mean what you said about the fatherland.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 22:14 | 1839631 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

that's underdog man. you gotta root for Greece here! "flag on the field! piling on!"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1839438 xcehn
xcehn's picture

The longer the ponzi scheme takes to implode, the longer we have to prepare for what we all know lies dead ahead.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:00 | 1839442 luna_man
luna_man's picture

If it's going down...Might as well go together!...Ready?...One, Two, Three!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:01 | 1839446 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Fuck these bastard bankers and pass the popcorn.  This is getting interesting!  Jubilees and Mint Juleps all around.

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