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Game Over? Reuters Says Germany, France Exploring Idea Of Core Euro Zone, End Of Existing Structure
If anyone needed the proper epitaph for the insane stupidity out of Europe, Reuters may have just provided it. In an exclusive article, Reuters stuns us with the following: "German and French officials have discussed plans for a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and potentially smaller euro zone, EU sources say. French President Nicolas Sarkozy gave some flavour of his thinking during an address to students in the eastern French city of Strasbourg on Tuesday, when he said a two-speed Europe -- the euro zone moving ahead more rapidly than all 27 countries in the EU -- was the only model for the future." It gets much worse: "The discussions among senior policymakers in Paris, Berlin and Brussels go further, raising the possibility of one or more countries leaving the euro zone, while the remaining core pushes on towards deeper economic integration, including on tax and fiscal policy." Not sure how to further clarify this: Europe is preparing for its own end, and the dissolution of the existing structure of the Eurozone, which likely means an end to the EU in its current format, a reshaping of the customs union, and the overhaul of the zEURq.PK in its current form. Ironically, this may end up being favorable for the Euro... and detrimental for Germany. So the question is: will Germany go for it? At this point, it probably has no choice, unless it wants a mutiny on its hands.
More from Reuters on this shocker:
A senior EU official said changing the make-up of the euro zone has been discussed on an "intellectual" level but had not moved to operational or technical discussions, while a French government source said there was no such project in the works.
Such steps are also opposed by many EU countries, whose backing would be needed for any adjustments to the bloc's treaties, making them anything but a done deal.
"This will unravel everything our forebears have painstakingly built up and repudiate all that they stood for in the past sixty years," one EU diplomat told Reuters. "This is not about a two-speed Europe, we already have that. This will redraw the map geopolitically and give rise to new tensions. It could truly be the end of Europe as we know it."
Nonetheless, the Franco-German motor has generally been the driving force in steps forward for European integration.
To an extent the taboo on a country leaving the 17-member currency bloc was already broken at the G20 summit in Cannes last week, when German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Sarkozy both effectively said that Greece might have to drop out if the euro zone's long-term stability was to be maintained.
But the latest discussions among European officials point to a more fundamental re-evaluation of the 12-year-old currency project -- including which countries and what policies are needed to keep it strong and stable for the next decade and beyond -- before Europe's debt crisis manages to break it apart.
In large part the aim is to reshape the currency bloc along the lines it was originally intended; strong, economically integrated countries sharing a currency, before nations such as Greece managed to get in.
And so forth. Read the full thing here.
In other news: euroskeptics - take a bow. We truly can't wait for Abrose Evans Pritchards' and Nigel Farage's responses to this news.
As usual, the Economist summarizes it best with one cover.
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oh my god all the bullshit, the plan is in place just execute it already,,,,cnbc is at another new high in bullshit
It's over bitchez
F*I*N*A*L*L*Y ...
A Plan "B" ...
Let's get rid of the dead weight and move on already.
I'm going on a coke and hooker binge this weekend, likely will end up in a coma for a few months. wake me up when all this euro bullshit is over and my gold is worth $10,000/oz
Translation:
Merkozy are telling the little PIIGS to STFU and hand over the sovereignty of their nations and citizenry to the ECB banksters like good little boys and girls or get booted off of the Survivor Europe (TM) nightly news broadcast program.
The bankers themselves can then decide best what if any services the citizenry should receive in exchange for their continued support of the European parasitic banking system.
it's the "establishing a more integrated" part of "a radical overhaul of the European Union that would involve establishing a more integrated and potentially smaller euro zone" that interests me.
this is the best we're gonna doo-doo, mehapz
the piigs should be ok w/ their own currencies, defaults (?), auster-it-eeez, and BKs
i'm sure the banksters will be most helpful, aren't you?
will the new EU (FR + GER + countries to run away to) be able to withstand the dipping in solvent?
Your gold will be worth $10,000 an ounce and a Big Mac will cost $5,000. The second one will not taste as good as the first (I am referring to the Big Macs, not the hookers, about which I know nothing).
It's "remember" or "recall" nothing, a lawyer can kill you with the word "know".
Send the Bernak and his Heidlebergs over there to show 'em how to solve all their problems (and make the bankster richer).
"...which likely means an end to the EU in its current format,..."
tschüß .... ciao ... un adieu ... adios ... tanto tempo ... later dude
Wish Farage was a US Citizen. I’d vote for him for President. He’s better than anything we got.
=======
King World News: MEP Nigel Farage
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/11/9_MEP_Nigel_Farage.html
Who benefits the most from a EURO collapse? Germany, and there is no way they are going to backstop that FIAT with their gold holdings, so it is a case of cake and eat it too (for the time being). They are going to increase their exports to the USA of BMWs because all of Euro holders are going to be USD holders soon, which will put the last nail in the coffin of the ill fated currency. Germany will have up to 1 year to capitalize on this implosion until world wide receission sets in and the banking cartel is left with a zero sum end game, and eat each other like cannibles. But that is just my guess, I could be wrong???
just fucking invade greece already
Just when I got to thinking the US is the stupidest piece of shit government, Europe went and destroyed Libya, which is one of their greatest oil suppliers. Now they can't figure out that their financial system is unsustainable. Europe, you lose.
"Been there, done that."
-- The late, former U.N. Secretary-General Kurt Waldheim.
http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,2609038_1,00.jpg
Is the snake that is the New World Order eating itself? Is the long tradition of Germany vs. Italy coming to a head? Will Europe implode before the US bombs Iran?
It appears the illuminatti are up shit creek. Without a viable solution for all of the problems they have created, how will they give us ther New World Order?
Or maybe we should all buy NFLX and forget about it.
the euro was designed to implode. then they will introduce even more currency/fiscal consolidation. then that will implode, then they will have even more consolidation. its all about implosions and power consolidations
Ding, ding, ding, Winnnah!
What they couldn't do by constitutional referendum in the beginning, they will do now by withholding aid while keeping all exits sealed.
This is not a game-over event, but a change of rules between quarters.
The people won't go for it. I think they will all go back to seperate currencies.
The people? They will kill each other off, while they starve. The "leaders" meanwhile, will do what they're told.
Just remember there's a little event called WORLD WAR in between each of those cycles you speak of.
I am aware of that part of the plan. Nations nuking each other while suppressing armed uprisings and devaluing fiat currencies to starve the sheeple.
i think this part actually is part of the plan.... collapse and cause choas, then seize control. its that second stop where they must be stopped.
A dependent population is incapable of stopping this criminal cartel (once again, part of the plan).
"A dependent population is incapable of stopping this criminal cartel "
In that case can we help them out by sending over all of our welfare queens, chronically unemployed and SNAP participants?
Yeah Power Lunch is about to kick into high gear. I FUCKING HATE CNBC.
I never turn on CNBC anymore. Never. My life is happier and my blood pressure is lower. Just turn them off and walk away. That is the only way they will die.
I'm tuned out and stress free for the last 5 years. Except when I see CNBC clips on the hedge then I get enraged and combative. Usually things break in the near vicinity.
They had two congress critters on just a while back. Talking abut the "Super Committee" and cutting the budget by 1.2T. Blah, blah, blah........Is the SC even constitutional?????
Same old shit.....different day. They DO help me stay in shape with the cussing skills. You never want to loose that ability when it comes to today's bankers and budget.
CNBS? I had dramatically limited my TV viewing to a late night stupid movie 2-3 times a week. Then my cable box went on the blink and kept rebooting. Rather than call the cable company I just pulled the plug and it is a paperweight collecting dust. I am on my 3rd month now. Other than quitting smoking, this is the best present I ever gave myself.
Please tell everyone with half a brain to boycott CNBC - and all other GE outfits for that matter. Scum bag cheerleader liars.
That's not nice. Jeffy Immelt is trying so hard to help himse..er, O'bummer, why Jeffy even quit his spot on the NY Federal Reserve board to devote himself full time to our President, and , oh, General Electric too. They should make a reality show out of Jeffy's day. It would be funnier than his comedy channel, CNBC.
then never watch it again - that will hurt it, at least doing your part.
I stopped watching CNBS, period, since 2008 financial melt down.
Real talk I stopped watching CNBC in 2001 and only recently started watching CNBC and Bloomburg again just because I've been doing some trading (and you might know there is some headline risk/volatility). I hate trading stocks and much prefer straight gambling (sports, cards, whatever) but I love the idea of betting on the decline of the entire financial world even if I LOSE EVERY FUCKING PENNY. With respect to CNBC, it was like a time warp because its the same FUCKING PEOPLE SAYING THE SAME IDIOTIC BULLSHIT AS TEN FUCKING YEARS AGO. TALK ABOUT GROUNDHOG DAY BILL MURRAY HOLLER. I TOOK TEN YEARS OFF AND ITS IDENTICAL. CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW BOB PISANI HAS KEPT HIS JOB? I feel like there is a slight chance they are just re-airing the 2008/2009 years but I wouldn't know because I didn't really follow finance that closely for those boom years (I did go to grade school with Dick Fuld's twin daughters though so I heard some great stories from the frontline). CNBC MAKES TONS OF MONEY AND PROVIDES AN OUTLET FOR WALL ST ASSHOLES TO RUN THEIR IDIOT MOUTHS AND THAT PISSES ME OFF. STOCK PICKING? The correlation matrix between individual stocks and the broader market is upwards of 90& so please TELL ME ABOUT WHATEVER FUCKING STOCK YOU LIKE THIS WEEK. NEXT WEEK IT WILL BE SOMETHING ELSE.
"2001 ?! I wasn't even A-list with Uncle Warren -- pardon me, 'MISTER Buffett' -- oops, well, 'A-list' isn't really the term -- uh, I wasn't even PRIVY to Mister Buffett's bathtub musings yet in 2001 ! You really have to watch, Reggie !"
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/184/bq4c.jpg
There is no past, there is no history, there is no context. There is only now. What is this 2001 you speak of? What is 2008? There is only sell in the morning and buy in the afternoon or just get drunk and sleep it off.
wait a minute wait a minute--yes it may ultimately make for a stronger Euro, but not before EVERYTHING GOES STRAIGHT TO FUCKING HELL. No glossing over that bit. Merry freaking christmas pumper chumpers!
And enjoy your Christmas tree tax, thanks to the Pumpkinhead in Chief. All I want for Christmas is a president that is not so openly phony and corrupt. I think it would be easier to ask for a pony.
Better go back and read that Christmas Tree thread again.
But, then again, your name is WestVillageIdiot for a reason.
I welcome it. US should take a clue - drop loser states like California from the union.
New York City sucks the blood out of the rest of the country. Get rid of it and you'd be a lot better off. The center of the thievery is right outside my door.
the west village? There's a 500 wannabe Sarah Jessica Parkers from Toledo and some drag queens outside your door. Don't think bombing Crumbs (meant to say Magnolia) is gonna help much, point the psychos a little more south....
The West Village on Saturdays and Sundays during "brunch time" has become the sixth level of hell. You just want to take that cupcake from Magnolia Bakery and ram it down their pie hole.
don't i know it man. my girlfriend drags me there at least twice a month. If it weren't for the bottomless bloody marys I'd leave her over it.
As long as we have our access to water from the Col. River, California on its own would be quite a marvelous country. We'd have to build a fucking fence on ALL of our borders to keep all you fucking illegals out.
California is prime real estate. It's not California that is the problem. It is its inhabitants and all of their fucked up ideas.
I'm going fly fishing this afternoon at my favorate stream burried in the Sierra's near Tahoe. Its fucking georgeous outside today. Lifes a bitch in Ca. Not a Mexican as far as I can see...
Don't know where you are, but winter has already set, snow in Tahoe. Flies gone until 2012. Fish the Taylor outflow in Feb when the mack fry swin into the awaiting Browns.
further down the hill on the silver
last i heard, california was the eighth largest economy in the world, bringing in more tax revenue than virtually double second place to the rest of the states.
try running your crooked government without our innovation and productivity, and last but not least - income.
you'd be broke and dead in the water so fast it would make your head spin.
we keep the fiat ponzi rolling, bitchez.
Stop that.
Cali is fucked.
No water. no industry that isn't outsourcing (bye-bye Hollywood), and millions of people who have no clue how to live without handouts from the over-sized tax revenue base. Once the banking industry falls, all of that Asian money going through San Fran goes with it.
Cali is the prime example of capital consumption. Like all other ponzi's, it only works as long as there is OPM to fund it.
Dream on.
Have fun eating without California.
Have fun in your dustbowl that cannot produce food. Have grocery prices risen enough yet so that farmers grow food, or is it still more profitable to sell the water rights to the urban centers?
The California "dust bowl" is due to the Feds and their belief that a few salmon migrating up the rivers are more important than billions of $$ ag. There's plenty of water if the feds are thrown out. There's probably plenty of water anyway if better water conservation was practiced, not only by the farmers, but the lawn owners in So Cal. Many fields are still flood irrigated.
I believe I read somewhere recently that California produces more $$$ in ag income than any other state.
Many farmers don't grow food, because the feds pay them not to.
South Cali is fucked: 20 million people in a desert and no fucking water. Jesus. H. Christ.
Up here in the North, we still rock. Seriously. You guys need to get your maps out and find a place in Cali anywhere north of Gilroy to land yourself when the SHTF because soon after that, we close the doors and watch the world burn.
And you don't want to be anywhere near Donner Pass after the snows start. Fact.
Make that north of The Grapevine if you want plenty to eat and wear. "J. G. Boswell Company, known today as the world's largest privately owned farm. Primary crops include Pima cotton, alfalfa hay, tomatoes, onions, and wheat, all cultivated on some 135,000 acres (550 km2) mostly in Kings County, California."
Boswell is a publicly traded company -- BWEL.PK They have lots of water rights, a lot more than they need. And there may be more oil there if one drills deeper.
A lot more money flows out of California to the feds than flows back into it. California would have no problems with its economy, even with its horribly crooked political infrastructure, going it alone without the federal monkey on its back.
Well, that's true for every state except for Virginia and maybe New York. Still, that does not make the system a viable entity.
Also, if Cali is so cash, then why do they owe billions to fedgov for unemployment benefit loans, dwarfing the amount owed by all other states (or even many combined)?
Why are bananas curved? You got money to give, and those "loans" are nothing but printed "gifts", I'll take it. All states are the same. California has a bigger economy than those other states, so it logically would dwarf those other states in unemployment befefits and loans.
I think North Dakota, Alaska and Montana get a lot more in from the feds than they send out. Maybe that's one of the reasons their budgets are more in balance?
i still wanna know why bananas are curved?
There's probably a Netherlander somewhere that has an opinion.
Right... Fund those state pensions.. You cannot, that fact will soon smack you like a 2x4 to the head..
And its a lovely day - one more hour of watching this bs market - at least my hedge is working today - and I'm going flying low and slow (Piper Cub) and enjoying Northern California and life without stock markets...
Yes, oh yes, please. Then, tell them to make my state next to be freed... I mean "dropped". Fuck the "union".
Give California to Mexico. Serve them right, Mexico that is.
Don't have to, as they've already retaken it.
The Mexicans never gave it up. When California was taken from Mexico by a bunch of armed thugs in 1848, it was full of Mexicans. Most didn't leave. Coincidentally, just after that gold was "discovered" there.
Loser state? The Californian economy is the same size as Germany. Enough said.
It would be a dream come true. My Euro shorts goes to parity and we get to clean out the system win win for everyone on the long run. But it aint going to happen because politicians are fking crooks.
Politicians are owned by the crooks. Just look at Obama. "I didn't get elected to help some fat cat bankers." That is the best piece of standup comedy I've ever seen. This guy admires Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein. What a piece of dog doo.
No. This actually makes a lot of sense. They have to retrace their steps and as Sarkozy put it "split up the zone in to two seperate ones of seperate velocities". Merkel said that now is the time to boldly come up with MORE not less integration in a smaller Eurozone. Germany can not leave the Euro without sending it into some tailspin, but creating a Eurozone "light" with the weaker economies would be most viable and seems inevitable right now. They cannot simply drag on, markets won't allow that, they're going to do the right thing which still will cause a lot of inevitable pain to many and more...
The right thing? ROFLOL!!11!!!1
The right thing would be for all of them to return to their homes and mind their own business. Not that it will ever happen.
This is just EU, Act 2: The Haves and the Have Nots.
I don't know where you're from, but IMO people don't much care for such divisions, leading to... Act 3: WWIII.
Who cares about that ... what about the gay penguins.
Germany gets in internal intra-nation mutiny or a Eurozone mutiny: the choice is.......¿
Europe The Final Countdown
For your listening pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_IKcMl_a9A&feature=player_embedded
Germany gets up from table, says, "I'll be bock"...
At the intellectual discussion phase - do they ever progress beyond that on anything?
Umm.... they've never gotten that far, ever.
The plan really isn't in place, because none of the G20 want to fund it. They are hoping that the private sector will fund it but nobody wants to buy bonds that are collateralized with debt that is from insolvent countries and banks. Also the EFSF plan was really a jawbone tactic to talk the market and economies up and buy more time and it didn't work. That front page is exactly right, they are in a colander life boat. The best thing for them to do is to firewall the core countries from the others that have problems and hope for the best.
a plan, finally? about time, now I can breathe a sigh of relief knowing it was all just a bad dream...
The thought of EU officials having “intellectual” discussions is kinda comical.
Just to clarify, which group of officials is having these discussions; Euro politicians, or Euro central bankers?
Which group runs the EU and which the euro?
A lot of commentary seems to assume these are all one and the same.
Going to need a lot more than translators to make that happen!
i don't think much will change, we are soooooo fucking interconected, i don't see any practical ways ( not illusionarry) to change anything except peg curencies to dollar and print more.
Jim Willie has maintained for years that the euro will fail and that a new "Nordic Euro" will emerge.
+ 1
Yes, he has.
My thoughts exactly when I read this however he did seem to of back off a little lately. He's a good analyst. His newsletter is how I found Zero Hedge a couple years ago.
yea, when I was in Iceland, they actually talked about projects that were put on hold because of...lack of funding. I was immediately puzzled, wtf is this "lack of funding" thing? Apparently, they actually wait till they have money to do things. My consternation was immense.
In the southern euro and in the US, just fuckin print it.
About fucking time.
Texans are way ahead of you, Merkozy!
Do NOT mess with Texas.
HELL YEAH! yippee ki yi yay!
Careful Tex, if you secede we will charge you double for water, cuz yer plumb out of water cowboy.
I'd gladly pay a fair market rate for water if I was not forced to use Federal Reserve Notes and thus pay the corresponding inflation tax to the Federal government.
The USA needs Texas a LOT more than we need them.
And what will they charge us for the WTI?
We got oil and besides that we got guns. We gonna take back Colorado.
Texas doesn't need anyone else's water.
"The Ogallala Aquifer, the largest aquifer in the Western North American Region, ... covers approximately 174,000 square miles (about 450,000 km2) (U.S. Geological Survey, 2008) and lies under Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Texas, and Wyoming."
http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2012/finalwebsite/images/groundwater8.jpg
http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2012/finalwebsite/problem/groundwater.shtml
In case you missed the news flash, it has started to rain again in Texas. Besides, we'll charge you triple for oil and the products made from it since we have the refineries as well.
Damn right we need to secede. GTFO of the USA.
CNBC
"And the market does not react....
this depresion sucks. theres no high quality bs out there, just low quality bs. we have a hqbs shortage
I smell an arb trade in there somewhere....
actually that is bullish
FRANCE and Germany? BWAHAHAHA! AHH... HAHAHAHAHA!
Hmm..
Maybe they can start the ultimate union with a linguistic integration.
How's Parlesprech le Frandeutsch sound?
Oops..
A German friend just told me that would never work..
It would have to be Sprechevous ze Deutcshfran.
This was my first thought, too...
Yep, they only really need Germany to be in that currency "union."
What's a good name for that "high-velocity Euro" German currency? Hmmm...
see this on TV in 3 hours
Silver Bitchezzz?!?
The whole idea that they would have less national autonomy down the road is really evil. The further a government is from the peopl e the more criminal it becomes. Just look at our federal government. That is why the United Nations is so fucking evil, too. The fact that we have to give up our rights to a group of people that doesn't even dwell in our nation is disgusting. Government needs to be local. When somebody like Sarkozy talks about more "cooperation" they mean less representation for the little guy. That means less acountability for the bureaucracy. Screw that.
A infinite number of greens to you, sir.
agreed. and, the bigger Gov't is, the worse it gets!
Market meltup on this news? WTF!? I mean, I know markets are broken, but this is just ridonkulous.
this is bullsh^t.....the banks will be bailed out. the ecb will print. the fed will backstop europe/banks(and do qe3/4/5/6/7/8/9). the imf will bailout the banks. the rich will be protected.............this story implies that the greeks/et all will be dropped and not bailed out...? i call BS...!
I agree I say it's bullshit too.
Printing is over...so 2008, old fad.
All very true and logical, but your argument assumes they can bail all the banks out. Isn't it true there isn't enough money in the whole world to do so? Some dead wood might need to be cut away before they can proceed with what you say will happen. You might be both right and wrong, because when faced with being unseated from power, TPTB will do anything to survive, even putting off their NWO plans for a few decades.
You are correct, it is bullshit, and the banks will be bailed out, but there still may be the two-tiered system being discussed in addition to this. It would certainly fit the idea of "get the peripherals way the fuck in debt, obtain as much collateral as possible on that debt, and then leave the fuckers as a hollow shell".
let me re-phrase....'the fed et all will continue to push bailouts to the rich'....yes there will never be a 'total' bailout as there isnt enought money in th eworld to do that but TPTB are never going to just throw their hands up in the air and walk away as long as the common man has a penny left to steal.
Maybe this is what Angie means by "New Europe".
When she was referring to "multikulti has failed" she meant iTaly, Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal within the EU.
does this mean my efsf bonds r no good???
Umm...this seems like the EU themselves have just dramatically increased the perceived currency risk to anyone considering buying 'Non-Core' sovereign debt.
Are they mad or just stupid? Both, maybe.
excellent observation, so their actions illustrate maddness, stupidity, or complete and utter desperation. I would guess they are out of choices and holding this up as a solution will somehow be used as another method to stall. This is all about stalling while they buy gold.
So wait....who do The French surrender to?
to their own hyperinflated egos?
The Titanic has hit the iceburg and the Captain and his cronies are still telling people all is fine. This is truely amazing....does anyone beleive anything these fools are saying in Europe? These problems will be our problems very soon.
Bullshit, the banking integration ensures this is stillborn.
Its either the strong nations leave or it all goes to shit.
The weak cannot leave without blowing up the EZ banking system.
DMs, not drachmas.
Tyler,
Looks like your and Reggie's work product is not completely lost on Roubini after all.
I would love to see him produce some work product to substantiate his claims and then.. see how much of it is Your or Reggie's work that has been plagiarized or spun to try make it look original.
JW
I don't see why this would be good for the Euro...
Hey Mister Wanna Buy Some Euros ?
I'll give you 3 pebbles and 1 pound of gravel for 10 pounds of 100euro bills.
Take it or leave it.
I will throw in a shovel of a sand if you can deliver your bills to me by next friday.
I will trade straight-across my Quatloos for your Euros.
WAR
What is it good for?
Getting rid of bankers! HUH!
maybe Germany and Norway, but France? France is in no shape to play power politics. Any news refering to france as strong is bogus.
Meet the new structure.
Same as the old structure.
And everyones still bankrupt, no matter how many coats of lipstick are applied to the crack whore. Still an ugly syphilus infested skank.
A sieve for a lifeboat- Hahaaahaaha!
french is trying to abondon ship as they know the contagion will spread (already has) and they are bankrupt..but too little too late buddy..nothing is pro euro now...and btw this means warrr..and how is this good for the german economy??::))
Great magazine, read it every month ... and when I saw that cover the other day, I almost said, "oops, I crapped my pants"!
This has to be one of the greatest covers they have done to date ... PERFECT match there Tyler ... kudos!!
"Great magazine, read it every month"
Must have changed since I stopped reading it 15 years ago, on account it was always wrong in every prediction I ever read in it
dupe
Cold feet...happens a lot with the best laid plans. Planning out the armored truck robbery over beers and burgers well ahead of time is fun, its weeks away after all...then when its the day of the actual heist, people realize reality is a bitch and back out.
What next, bitchez? What you gonna do?
problem is ... if Italy isn't part of the core then neither will France.