As Geithner Says Supercommittee "Holds Key To Rebuiling Confidence" Supercommittee Says "Trillions Of Dollars Apart"

Tyler Durden's picture

With the European drama seemingly on the backburner for a few days (although with so many promises of resignations, it is now Wednesday in Greece and who is PM? Why G-Pap, despite resolute guarantees he would have stepped down by Monday... at the latest... But aaaaaany minute now, he is resigning, promise) it may be finally time to switch attention over the US, and the fact that absent lots and lots of fiscal stimulus, Q4 GDP is rolling over, as virtually everyone has predicted. Amusingly, none other than Tim Geithner provides the perfect segue, having said earlier that "the supercommittee holds "the key" to rebuild confidence." This brings us to the supercommittee itself. And for that we go to Politico: "Congressional Democrats and Republicans are trillions of dollars apart on a deficit reduction deal as the supercommittee nears its Nov. 23 deadline." So, with confidence like that, who needs any doubt. It continues: "The most recent Republican offer, according to Democratic and Republican sources, includes roughly $770 billion in spending cuts and between $550 billion and $600 billion in new revenue from a variety of sources, including selling public lands, increasing the price tag on postage stamps and new energy leases. Republicans also say they’d be willing to limit deductions and certain tax breaks – sure to anger their conservative base – in order to reach nearly $300 billion in new tax revenues. In exchange, Republicans want to change the rate of inflation for Social Security, cut Medicaid and increase Medicare premiums for the wealthy." Needless to say this is going to go nowhere in a hurry. And all of this is happening as the second interim debt ceiling target is about to be breached after two more Treausry auction weeks. But none of this matters: the robots trading this market, saw the word confidence and sent us to highs. After all buy first, ask questions later is what the motto of the NYSE Borse is, or should be going forward. Probably in German - more fitting.

Some more details on the Supercommittee status from The Hill:

Republican supercommittee negotiators are willing to limit tax deductions for upper income households in exchange for lowering tax rates, according to a GOP aide.


Republicans say some of the revenue raised from limiting itemized deductions for the wealthy could be used for deficit reduction, and are painting the move as a serious concession made to galvanize the talks two weeks before its Nov. 23 deadline to reach a deal.


Democrats, however, argue lowering tax rates would cost the government more revenue than it would raise from changing deductions. They say the GOP offer, as a result, is more of an effort to avoid blame than reach a deal.


Republicans say their offer is a shift, since GOP members previously have said any tax increases generated by eliminating tax deductions must be balanced out entirely by lowered rates.


The GOP aide cast the idea as a response to a Democratic proposal to limit itemized deductions for the wealthy on mortgages and other tax breaks. The aide said it was not a formal proposal.


“This is not a Republican proposal,” the GOP aide said. “Why would Republicans propose increasing taxes? This is Republicans giving something in return for lowered tax rates.”


The exact amount of revenue to be used is shifting on an hourly basis depending on the fast moving negotiations, but could be characterized as hundreds of billions of dollars, the aide said.


The aide also said the hundreds of billions of dollars would be in the context of a $1.2 trillion package, the smallest possible to avoid across-the-board cuts, and would not include any revenues from economic growth.

And once the details trickle down to the "99" the result will not be pretty:

"This plan would provide the very wealthiest Americans with one of the largest tax rate cuts ever. It's a shell game. A thinly veiled attempt to appear to put revenue on the table while simultaneously removing far more with massive tax cuts for wealthy Americans. This plan is not a solution Democrats or middle class Americans would ever be willing to accept," a Democratic aide familiar with the talks said of the GOP move.

All of the above is irrelevant, simply remember: "Confidence." Cause the Jeethner said so. And no US downgrade. Ever.

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navy62802's picture

Get ready for the rollercoaster ride once more.

TheLooza's picture

With every crisis comes a melt-upportunity


thats my bike punk!

Hard1's picture

Congressional Democrats and Republicans are trillions of NEURONS apart on a deficit reduction deal as the supercommittee nears its Nov. 23 deadline."

GenX Investor's picture

Bully - risk on turn of events.  I wonder how the markets will react???

Pinto Currency's picture


"The super committee holds the key to rebuilding confidence."


I like that.  After the Fed has blown serial debt bubbles and collapsed the US economy, the super committee now  "holds the key" (read: hot potato) for this mess . 


Not the NY Fed, which Little Timmy used to run, with the permanent seat as Deputy Chairman of the FOMC that coordinated the tragic monetary policy.


Time to bomb Iran.  Then you can blame Iran and the super-committee.

UP Forester's picture

Huh.  I didn't see BOHICA as the byline....

DaveyJones's picture

an unconstitutional committee holds the key to building confidence in our constitution

eureka's picture

Who needs confidence - or unity - when those who control the fiat printing press ask for no one elses opinions?

Don Birnam's picture

"There is not a dime's worth of difference between the Democrat and Republican Parties."

Indeed, since '64, the distinctions, such that they are, have blurred even more.

Pinto Currency's picture


Jimmy Cayne never realized who held the cards when he said this about Timmy:


"The audacity of that p—- in front of the American people announcing he was deciding whether or not a firm of this stature and this whatever was good enough to get a loan,” he said. “Like he was the determining factor, and it’s like a flea on his back, floating down underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, getting a h—-o-, saying, ‘Raise the bridge.’ This guy thinks he's got a big d—. He’s got nothing, except maybe a boyfriend. I’m not a good enemy. I’m a very bad enemy. But certain things really—that bothered me plenty. It’s just that for some clerk to make a decision based on what, your own personal feeling about whether or not they’re a good credit? Who the f— asked you? You’re not an elected officer. You’re a clerk. Believe me, you’re a clerk. I want to open up on this f—-r, that’s all I can tell you.”
Arius's picture

in front of American people ... a firm of this stature ...

good example of stupidity of mediocre american businessman who got carried up with the tide .... as Tom Friedman says now you got to be an innovator not just a stupido to get a job ... it makes me sick to my stomach to see such stupidity in high places (supposedly) .... everything coming is well deserved!

i-dog's picture

It's not stupidity, it's careful long-range planning.

Here is what a former Bilderberg attendee and French economist, Michel Albert, wrote 20 years ago in his 1991 book 'Capitalisme contre Capitalisme', where he coined the term "Rhine Capitalism" and warned that: “The largest banks know, however, that they are literally 'too big to fail' and can count on a helping hand from government if the worst comes to the worst ... Thus, in yet another intriguing but ominous irony of history, 10 years of ultra-liberalism [under Reagan and Thatcher] have resulted in a US financial system whose future may only be assured with the help of federal government handouts

Maybe we should now terminate their "future"!!

Pinto Currency's picture


With a central bank controlled by the banks who are recipients of the bubbles the Fed blows, try Oligarchy or Plutocracy.

It sure as hell wasn't ultra-liberalism.


i-dog's picture

Those were his words, not mine. He was, after all, a French socialist! ... so, to him, anything right of Marxist-Leninism would be "liberal" or "fascist". BTW, outside North America, 'liberal' means respect for the freedom of the individual (eg. the centre-right conservative party in Australia is called 'The Liberal Party'). See Wiki: Liberal

Pinto Currency's picture


Interesting how that Liberal word has been completely twisted by the MSM to mean either left leaning near communist or right leaning near fascist.  Either use is to the totalitarian side which is exactly what liberals are not.


Ethics Gradient's picture

Even allowing for a little ZH tomfoolery, this ride looks quite scary: Europe, China, America - all fairly comprehensively stuffed.

All we need now is for some swivel eyed loon to start a war in the geographic centre of those three....

slaughterer's picture

The market bear word is "Blue Horseshoe loves Iran."

LawsofPhysics's picture

"All we need now is for some swivel eyed loon to start a war in the geographic centre of those three...."

So, the north pole then?  Bullish for winter gear.

The Big Ching-aso's picture



The Super Committee will not be sufficient to solve this crisis.

It will take IMO a Super-Duper Committee to get the job done.

NotApplicable's picture

Which will make trillions in difference moot, as they will only deal in quadrillions.

ArkansasAngie's picture

I'll give "you" a super duper subcommittee ... it's called the American people you DS.

Honestly I really do believe that it is people like you and I who actually hold the key to putting these fools behind bars.  The masses don't have the time nor grasp of the subjects to understand that these guys are lying through their teeth.

It falls to us ... to call them out on the carpet.  Each of you  ... ok ... most of you ... has your sphere of influence.  Excercise it.  I bank with an Arkansas bank.  I tell them what I think.  I have state representatives and I take the time to tell them what I think.  I even step in and admit to people that I think there is a cabal.

I am not crazy.  I am not a racist.  I certainly am not a communist.  I admit I'm wrong regularly. 

Sorry ... I'll step down from my soap box now.

Rick64's picture

Yes we need another committee to further dilute the democratic process and circumvent congress or maybe a Budget Czar/ Deficit Dictator.

slaughterer's picture

Excellent, ZH on super-committee.  The moment the world has been waiting for.  

lolmao500's picture

SP should man up and downgrade America once again on November 24. This time by at least two notch.

Zero Govt's picture

Nancy is going to deliver $4 Trillion in savings through the Super Commie like she said she would

Who'd bet against Nancy in a cape and spandex tights?

mynhair's picture

Don't lower rates!  Just steal more of my money!


wisefool's picture

I talked to some people about the education of timG. Basically he does know how to file taxes. He just thought the worldbank does not need to pay taxes because they can do only good.

wisefool's picture

When I junk I respond. The conventional wisdom from people in political cicles is that Timmay has always wanted to be in charge of the IRS. He just needed to "get his bones" by not reporting income from the world bank.

I mean seriously who can blame him. World Bank? Al Gores' Houseboat?

Lets get the tax code fixed. Timmy=Tyler Durden.

Messianic's picture

In his particular case, it wasn't just some oversight or crazy rule that he missed.  He had to sign documents each year from the IMF stating that they were giving him a certain pool of money which was specifically given to him to pay his nation's income taxes. He signed and returned those forms every single year.  He then pocketed the money and only paid the differences/fines within a few months of his TS nomination.

Alas, we do need tax code reform - but let's not mince words at how much of an arrogant prick he was.  Your average joe would have gotten it up the rear by the IRS if they had done anything as brash as timmy did.


Turbotax actually knows what they're doing when they create software that people actually use, and people have gone far enough to prove that Turbotax actually has appropriate information in its coding to remind idiots like him to pay appropriate taxes, including the specific ones he chose not to pay.

Timmy just creates more banker privilege. Turbotax for TS instead (not the CEO, just the box or CD to sit in the chair and do a better job than Timmy, since CDs and Boxes dont' travel around the world and blow hot air at dignitaries).

azzhatter's picture

Obama? You mean that guy from Kenya?

YesWeKahn's picture

you forgot the magic word: "better than expected".

Yes, people think they don't even talk to each other like husband and wife.

mynhair's picture

Tax those jackasses in Zucotti Park!

Take skin off their behinds if needed.  Wake them up.

Dumb bells should be in DC, but would lose their ODummer subsidy.

mynhair's picture

How so?  Or are you totally illiterate?

SRV - ES339's picture

Blaming government is like blaming the tellers for a bank robbery... the politicians are incompetent (get the money out of the process and the problem goes away), the bankers are the ones "holding the bag of cash!"

You are part of the problem... and Wall Street is counting on you.

ArkansasAngie's picture

Personally ... I'm good with blaming the government.  And ... I believe you are underestimating them if you think they are stupid.

I believe there is little doubt that they know what they're doing with respect to screwing the American people.  Intent is present.  They are culpable. 


DeadFred's picture

mynhair you're testy tonight, passing another hairball? Ouch!

logically possible's picture

someone spiked the kitty water.

JPM Hater001's picture

"badly said, stupid."
Thankyou. If you are going to make a pithy comment don't let it demonstrate your lack of grasp of things as simple as the English language or leave people dumber for having read It. You accomplished both

CPL's picture

Okay, I'll feed the troll...


Why would anyone protest the puppets in DC if you can annoy the shit out of the puppet masters?


Go to bed kid, you'll hurt yourself.


3/10 for effort

mynhair's picture

Don't see them at Soros' estate, either.  Take a nap before you strain what is left of your brain, Pops.

nmewn's picture

Or at Michael Moore's...or Sarandon's...or tenured

Tax SOME of the Rich!!!

SRV - ES339's picture

... that's it, walk right into the divide and conquer trap... useful idiot!