This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

As Geithner Says Supercommittee "Holds Key To Rebuiling Confidence" Supercommittee Says "Trillions Of Dollars Apart"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With the European drama seemingly on the backburner for a few days (although with so many promises of resignations, it is now Wednesday in Greece and who is PM? Why G-Pap, despite resolute guarantees he would have stepped down by Monday... at the latest... But aaaaaany minute now, he is resigning, promise) it may be finally time to switch attention over the US, and the fact that absent lots and lots of fiscal stimulus, Q4 GDP is rolling over, as virtually everyone has predicted. Amusingly, none other than Tim Geithner provides the perfect segue, having said earlier that "the supercommittee holds "the key" to rebuild confidence." This brings us to the supercommittee itself. And for that we go to Politico: "Congressional Democrats and Republicans are trillions of dollars apart on a deficit reduction deal as the supercommittee nears its Nov. 23 deadline." So, with confidence like that, who needs any doubt. It continues: "The most recent Republican offer, according to Democratic and Republican sources, includes roughly $770 billion in spending cuts and between $550 billion and $600 billion in new revenue from a variety of sources, including selling public lands, increasing the price tag on postage stamps and new energy leases. Republicans also say they’d be willing to limit deductions and certain tax breaks – sure to anger their conservative base – in order to reach nearly $300 billion in new tax revenues. In exchange, Republicans want to change the rate of inflation for Social Security, cut Medicaid and increase Medicare premiums for the wealthy." Needless to say this is going to go nowhere in a hurry. And all of this is happening as the second interim debt ceiling target is about to be breached after two more Treausry auction weeks. But none of this matters: the robots trading this market, saw the word confidence and sent us to highs. After all buy first, ask questions later is what the motto of the NYSE Borse is, or should be going forward. Probably in German - more fitting.

Some more details on the Supercommittee status from The Hill:

Republican supercommittee negotiators are willing to limit tax deductions for upper income households in exchange for lowering tax rates, according to a GOP aide.

 

Republicans say some of the revenue raised from limiting itemized deductions for the wealthy could be used for deficit reduction, and are painting the move as a serious concession made to galvanize the talks two weeks before its Nov. 23 deadline to reach a deal.

 

Democrats, however, argue lowering tax rates would cost the government more revenue than it would raise from changing deductions. They say the GOP offer, as a result, is more of an effort to avoid blame than reach a deal.

 

Republicans say their offer is a shift, since GOP members previously have said any tax increases generated by eliminating tax deductions must be balanced out entirely by lowered rates.

 

The GOP aide cast the idea as a response to a Democratic proposal to limit itemized deductions for the wealthy on mortgages and other tax breaks. The aide said it was not a formal proposal.

 

“This is not a Republican proposal,” the GOP aide said. “Why would Republicans propose increasing taxes? This is Republicans giving something in return for lowered tax rates.”

 

The exact amount of revenue to be used is shifting on an hourly basis depending on the fast moving negotiations, but could be characterized as hundreds of billions of dollars, the aide said.

 

The aide also said the hundreds of billions of dollars would be in the context of a $1.2 trillion package, the smallest possible to avoid across-the-board cuts, and would not include any revenues from economic growth.

And once the details trickle down to the "99" the result will not be pretty:

"This plan would provide the very wealthiest Americans with one of the largest tax rate cuts ever. It's a shell game. A thinly veiled attempt to appear to put revenue on the table while simultaneously removing far more with massive tax cuts for wealthy Americans. This plan is not a solution Democrats or middle class Americans would ever be willing to accept," a Democratic aide familiar with the talks said of the GOP move.

All of the above is irrelevant, simply remember: "Confidence." Cause the Jeethner said so. And no US downgrade. Ever.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:46 | 1858588 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Get ready for the rollercoaster ride once more.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:53 | 1858615 TheLooza
TheLooza's picture

With every crisis comes a melt-upportunity

 

thats my bike punk!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-met-jNfA&feature=related

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:02 | 1858654 Hard1
Hard1's picture

Congressional Democrats and Republicans are trillions of NEURONS apart on a deficit reduction deal as the supercommittee nears its Nov. 23 deadline."

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:06 | 1858677 GenX Investor
GenX Investor's picture

Bully - risk on turn of events.  I wonder how the markets will react???

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:09 | 1858690 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

"The super committee holds the key to rebuilding confidence."

 

I like that.  After the Fed has blown serial debt bubbles and collapsed the US economy, the super committee now  "holds the key" (read: hot potato) for this mess . 

 

Not the NY Fed, which Little Timmy used to run, with the permanent seat as Deputy Chairman of the FOMC that coordinated the tragic monetary policy.

 

Time to bomb Iran.  Then you can blame Iran and the super-committee.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:33 | 1858777 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The super committee holds the key to something, alright:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QLa1_yj6Q

 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:26 | 1858928 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Huh.  I didn't see BOHICA as the byline....

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:27 | 1859482 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

an unconstitutional committee holds the key to building confidence in our constitution

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:07 | 1858680 eureka
eureka's picture

Who needs confidence - or unity - when those who control the fiat printing press ask for no one elses opinions?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:04 | 1858866 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

"There is not a dime's worth of difference between the Democrat and Republican Parties."

Indeed, since '64, the distinctions, such that they are, have blurred even more.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 22:09 | 1859249 sourgrapesson
sourgrapesson's picture

same snake-two heads

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 22:32 | 1859342 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Same ass, two cheeks.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:16 | 1858684 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Jimmy Cayne never realized who held the cards when he said this about Timmy:

 

"The audacity of that p—- in front of the American people announcing he was deciding whether or not a firm of this stature and this whatever was good enough to get a loan,” he said. “Like he was the determining factor, and it’s like a flea on his back, floating down underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, getting a h—-o-, saying, ‘Raise the bridge.’ This guy thinks he's got a big d—. He’s got nothing, except maybe a boyfriend. I’m not a good enemy. I’m a very bad enemy. But certain things really—that bothered me plenty. It’s just that for some clerk to make a decision based on what, your own personal feeling about whether or not they’re a good credit? Who the f— asked you? You’re not an elected officer. You’re a clerk. Believe me, you’re a clerk. I want to open up on this f—-r, that’s all I can tell you.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-cayne-tim-geithner-is-a-gay-office-clerk-2009-3#ixzz1d9thzD4e
Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:32 | 1858951 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

every word true too

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:38 | 1858967 Arius
Arius's picture

in front of American people ... a firm of this stature ...

good example of stupidity of mediocre american businessman who got carried up with the tide .... as Tom Friedman says now you got to be an innovator not just a stupido to get a job ... it makes me sick to my stomach to see such stupidity in high places (supposedly) .... everything coming is well deserved!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 22:51 | 1859390 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It's not stupidity, it's careful long-range planning.

Here is what a former Bilderberg attendee and French economist, Michel Albert, wrote 20 years ago in his 1991 book 'Capitalisme contre Capitalisme', where he coined the term "Rhine Capitalism" and warned that: “The largest banks know, however, that they are literally 'too big to fail' and can count on a helping hand from government if the worst comes to the worst ... Thus, in yet another intriguing but ominous irony of history, 10 years of ultra-liberalism [under Reagan and Thatcher] have resulted in a US financial system whose future may only be assured with the help of federal government handouts

Maybe we should now terminate their "future"!!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:49 | 1859518 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

You-dog,

With a central bank controlled by the banks who are recipients of the bubbles the Fed blows, try Oligarchy or Plutocracy.

It sure as hell wasn't ultra-liberalism.

 

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 02:25 | 1859760 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Those were his words, not mine. He was, after all, a French socialist! ... so, to him, anything right of Marxist-Leninism would be "liberal" or "fascist". BTW, outside North America, 'liberal' means respect for the freedom of the individual (eg. the centre-right conservative party in Australia is called 'The Liberal Party'). See Wiki: Liberal

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 15:37 | 1862453 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Interesting how that Liberal word has been completely twisted by the MSM to mean either left leaning near communist or right leaning near fascist.  Either use is to the totalitarian side which is exactly what liberals are not.

 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:53 | 1858616 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Even allowing for a little ZH tomfoolery, this ride looks quite scary: Europe, China, America - all fairly comprehensively stuffed.

All we need now is for some swivel eyed loon to start a war in the geographic centre of those three....

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:06 | 1858674 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

The market bear word is "Blue Horseshoe loves Iran."

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:12 | 1858707 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"All we need now is for some swivel eyed loon to start a war in the geographic centre of those three...."

So, the north pole then?  Bullish for winter gear.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:43 | 1858811 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Bearish for polar bears

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:12 | 1858702 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

The Super Committee will not be sufficient to solve this crisis.

It will take IMO a Super-Duper Committee to get the job done.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:17 | 1858720 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Which will make trillions in difference moot, as they will only deal in quadrillions.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:49 | 1859180 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

I'll give "you" a super duper subcommittee ... it's called the American people you DS.

Honestly I really do believe that it is people like you and I who actually hold the key to putting these fools behind bars.  The masses don't have the time nor grasp of the subjects to understand that these guys are lying through their teeth.

It falls to us ... to call them out on the carpet.  Each of you  ... ok ... most of you ... has your sphere of influence.  Excercise it.  I bank with an Arkansas bank.  I tell them what I think.  I have state representatives and I take the time to tell them what I think.  I even step in and admit to people that I think there is a cabal.

I am not crazy.  I am not a racist.  I certainly am not a communist.  I admit I'm wrong regularly. 

Sorry ... I'll step down from my soap box now.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:02 | 1859424 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Yes we need another committee to further dilute the democratic process and circumvent congress or maybe a Budget Czar/ Deficit Dictator.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 00:18 | 1859576 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The Onion?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:47 | 1858591 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Excellent, ZH on super-committee.  The moment the world has been waiting for.  

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:40 | 1858796 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

SP should man up and downgrade America once again on November 24. This time by at least two notch.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:36 | 1858962 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Nancy is going to deliver $4 Trillion in savings through the Super Commie like she said she would

Who'd bet against Nancy in a cape and spandex tights?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:47 | 1858593 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Don't lower rates!  Just steal more of my money!

Libs.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:48 | 1858596 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I talked to some people about the education of timG. Basically he does know how to file taxes. He just thought the worldbank does not need to pay taxes because they can do only good.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:17 | 1858723 wisefool
wisefool's picture

When I junk I respond. The conventional wisdom from people in political cicles is that Timmay has always wanted to be in charge of the IRS. He just needed to "get his bones" by not reporting income from the world bank.

I mean seriously who can blame him. World Bank? Al Gores' Houseboat?

Lets get the tax code fixed. Timmy=Tyler Durden.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:56 | 1859014 Messianic
Messianic's picture

In his particular case, it wasn't just some oversight or crazy rule that he missed.  He had to sign documents each year from the IMF stating that they were giving him a certain pool of money which was specifically given to him to pay his nation's income taxes. He signed and returned those forms every single year.  He then pocketed the money and only paid the differences/fines within a few months of his TS nomination.

Alas, we do need tax code reform - but let's not mince words at how much of an arrogant prick he was.  Your average joe would have gotten it up the rear by the IRS if they had done anything as brash as timmy did.

 

Turbotax actually knows what they're doing when they create software that people actually use, and people have gone far enough to prove that Turbotax actually has appropriate information in its coding to remind idiots like him to pay appropriate taxes, including the specific ones he chose not to pay.

Timmy just creates more banker privilege. Turbotax for TS instead (not the CEO, just the box or CD to sit in the chair and do a better job than Timmy, since CDs and Boxes dont' travel around the world and blow hot air at dignitaries).

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:48 | 1858597 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Obama? You mean that guy from Kenya?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:48 | 1858598 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

you forgot the magic word: "better than expected".

Yes, people think they don't even talk to each other like husband and wife.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:51 | 1858604 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Tax those jackasses in Zucotti Park!

Take skin off their behinds if needed.  Wake them up.

Dumb bells should be in DC, but would lose their ODummer subsidy.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:54 | 1858622 wretch
wretch's picture

Badly said, stupid.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:59 | 1858642 mynhair
mynhair's picture

How so?  Or are you totally illiterate?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:56 | 1858844 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Blaming government is like blaming the tellers for a bank robbery... the politicians are incompetent (get the money out of the process and the problem goes away), the bankers are the ones "holding the bag of cash!"

You are part of the problem... and Wall Street is counting on you.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 22:00 | 1859220 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Personally ... I'm good with blaming the government.  And ... I believe you are underestimating them if you think they are stupid.

I believe there is little doubt that they know what they're doing with respect to screwing the American people.  Intent is present.  They are culpable. 

 

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 00:28 | 1859598 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

mynhair you're testy tonight, passing another hairball? Ouch!

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 00:47 | 1859630 logically possible
logically possible's picture

someone spiked the kitty water.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:23 | 1858918 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"badly said, stupid."
Thankyou. If you are going to make a pithy comment don't let it demonstrate your lack of grasp of things as simple as the English language or leave people dumber for having read It. You accomplished both

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:07 | 1858679 CPL
CPL's picture

Okay, I'll feed the troll...

 

Why would anyone protest the puppets in DC if you can annoy the shit out of the puppet masters?

 

Go to bed kid, you'll hurt yourself.

 

3/10 for effort

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:39 | 1858785 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Don't see them at Soros' estate, either.  Take a nap before you strain what is left of your brain, Pops.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:57 | 1858847 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Or at Michael Moore's...or Sarandon's...or tenured professors...or...lol.

Tax SOME of the Rich!!!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:58 | 1858849 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

... that's it, walk right into the divide and conquer trap... useful idiot!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:50 | 1858605 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

People are confident because S&P's CEO has been replaced by a Citi puppet. There won't be another downgrade. There will be an upgrade.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:52 | 1858610 Rastamann
Rastamann's picture

Obama's big bank corporatist CLOWN is getting laughed out of the room again. it sucks when the rightwing establishment installs FAILURE into the government and then expectsa different outcome.

 

something disgruntled ex-Repuglican libertarian teabaggers "know" all too well

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:27 | 1858931 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

+1 and -8 <----When you up arrow yourself and it's a dumb comment it will look like this.

A good comment starts +1 and goes up. Just incase you were wondering how things worked around here.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:52 | 1858611 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

COMMITTEE.

Rule by committee.

Decisions by committee.

Satisfy no one. Solve nothing. Accomplishment? Waste.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:08 | 1858688 Rainman
Rainman's picture

...exactly.... Committee = Punt

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:13 | 1858712 Rastamann
Rastamann's picture

hahaha.....ah yes, never underestimate the rightwing authoritarian PEABRAIN'S NEED for dictatorship

 

little wonder that these same ex-Repuglican libertarians would usher in the next Hitler just as long as he made a quick decision under the guise of being an "expert." wait a sec....that's EXACTLY how Hitler came to power!

 

looks like history is repeating itself again..... ooooops

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:41 | 1858973 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Uhhh, history only rhymes.  The structure has been built since 1913, by dribs and drabs and now to bigger and bigger leaps.

Read Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich again.  Especially the rising part, about the first 400 pages.  It's frightening how the build-up of the current Federal government has been built under the Janus-face of Jack-asses and Trunk-swingers.

If you haven't figured this out for yourself, doom on you.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:30 | 1858942 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I designed a horse by committee once...I got a camel.
I designed a camel by committee once...I got Hillary Clinton.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:58 | 1859208 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Aw man...now I gotta go bleach my eyes out after that imagery.  Never, my friend, never use Hillary and camel in the same reference again.  It just...it just doesn't...oy.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:14 | 1859460 Make Less Pay More
Make Less Pay More's picture

A committee of representatives that were not elected by the people. No accountability needed!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:52 | 1858613 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Our fool politicians will milk every ounce of drama they can out of this super-committee cheese bag; exclaiming their constituents needs with fists and tears.

Then, at the last minute, they will collude to once again screw the middle class, left or right, and sell out to the banksters and crony capitalists.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:52 | 1858614 john39
john39's picture

none of those clowns will admit the obvious... that the U.S. needs to close its 700+ military bases and shut the war machine down....   i suspect the topic is never even discussed.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:58 | 1858640 CPL
CPL's picture

Much like over population isn't viewed as an environmental problem...some topics people are unwilling to participate in because of their beliefs and associated dogma.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:43 | 1858978 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Is it truly overpopulation, or is it population concentration?

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:32 | 1860006 Seer
Seer's picture

Concentration of population consumption.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:20 | 1859994 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

overpopulationisamyth.com

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:35 | 1860009 Seer
Seer's picture

peoplewhodon'tunderstandphysicswilldiefromignorance.com

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:53 | 1858618 toady
toady's picture

We're all gonna die.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:59 | 1858644 CPL
CPL's picture

Well the comet might hit...it might not.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:01 | 1858651 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What comet?  YU55 is an asteroid.  There is a difference.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:18 | 1858725 CPL
CPL's picture

space rock...there fix'd

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:40 | 1858795 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Not really.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:54 | 1858624 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

"Kaufen Sie mal erstens, dann, spaeter, denken Sie darueber."

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 22:23 | 1859308 berlinjames02
berlinjames02's picture

Here... I'll fix your German translation skillz.

Kaufen zuerst, dann kaufen mehr. Die Boerse geht immer auf.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:54 | 1858625 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Why The Super Committee Is Heading For Super Catastrophe (all of these signs augur for gridlock)

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/how-the-super-committee-reach...

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:55 | 1858626 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What growth?

"and would not include any revenues from economic growth"

I smell a Zandi.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:56 | 1858629 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Anybody who thinks these clowns won't reach a last minute deal after weeks of political theater,and their moment in the spotlight, deserves to lose every penny they have.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:57 | 1858635 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Sorry I meant to say ass clowns.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:55 | 1858630 youngman
youngman's picture

Next the super duper committee.....and then the super duper pooper committee....but in reality....its not going to happen...50% of the people do not pay federal income taxes...and to try to get them to have some dirt in the game...the Dems will balk...and as for revenue..congress will just spend it..its more important to cut expenses....but I do not see much about that....its all about more taxes.....game over...got gold

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:09 | 1858643 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You forgot about the super double top secret ultra delux super duper bestest ever committee

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:45 | 1858987 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Did someone mention Bilderberg's official name?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:07 | 1858875 Hohum
Hohum's picture

But most of the 50% pay payroll taxes and, in the end, it's all mixed up anyhow.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:55 | 1858631 chump666
chump666's picture

"Supercommittee" hahahahahahaha

 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:56 | 1858632 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Anybody notice the media silence about the super-shitty-committee?  In the perma-bull world of CNBS it does not really exist!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:21 | 1858736 youngman
youngman's picture

Oh but wiat..the week before they will be On site....and in full event form...men in the street...specialists on committees.....all awaiting the big moment....the unveiling....cue fireworks and the National Anthem.....no no no..get Snoop Dawg

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:59 | 1858641 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Another Circus sideshow. Are we assholes?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 18:59 | 1858646 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Geithner does NOT instill confidence.

Fannie Mae Reports $5.3 Billion Loss and Net Worth Deficit = $7.8 Billion

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com

So, that is $6 billion for Freddie, $7.8 billion for Fannie and however much the scam FHA which hides losses.

Sheesh. WE ARE BLEEDING TO DEATH!!

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:47 | 1860019 Seer
Seer's picture

Just to make sure people understand how all this works...  The losses came from the banks- Freddie and Fannie don't write the loans to begin with.  The corporate world was where the bad shit originated: no one forced banks to make bad loans (no one held a gun to their heads anymore so than banks held guns to the heads of bad risk clients to take out loans in the first place).  Govt DIDN'T create the MBSs, it didn't con others to buy shit, nor did it falsely rate shit as AAA.

Yes, govt bailouts of corporations is what has been happening.  This is fascism: helping socialize corporate losses via govt institutions.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:01 | 1858649 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

There is a "safety put" under the U.S. Bond market

And exactly what is the "safety put?"

Billions in scared equity money that flees to bonds at the first whiff of trouble in the credit or stock markets.

TLT and TIP are still near their highs.

First 100 point ES selloff will send both TIP and TLT to new record highs within days.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:04 | 1858668 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Robo, I know it is not your style to answer a direct question, but what are you trading these days?  PCLN?  TLT?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:12 | 1858701 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Robo doesn't trade.  He's just stuck in a 401K.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:29 | 1858767 sabra1
sabra1's picture

and it's a practice account!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:14 | 1858714 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

Comics and baseball cards.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 02:28 | 1859765 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Hell, by now it's probably used chewing gum and peanut shells off of bar floors....

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:57 | 1858848 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

you are talking to a robo, a broken one.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:01 | 1858652 dcb
dcb's picture

"the key to rebuilding confidence is getting rid of geithner and bernanke says populace. "

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:01 | 1858653 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Another war in the middle east will distrct the US citizens. A way to suport the president and be a patriot right before the election. The plan is already in the works,

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:20 | 1858658 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

Search the parks throughout your cities, you'll find no statues of committees.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:02 | 1858660 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

The Supercommittee will soon announce the sacrifice of the US social saftey net (SS & Medicare) to pay for the Trillions of taxpayer money given away to the banksters. Then the peasants will storm the Bastille. Heads on Poles to follow.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:03 | 1858661 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I hope those Republicans realize that passing laws adjusting SS payout doesn't change the inflation rate.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:43 | 1858810 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Of course it doesnt.

But a record wealth disparity between old and young has got to give.

The wealth of old people is now 47 times that of young adults.

It is about time for some shared sacrifice from the blue hairs. They cant just always expect to get get get and never have to give.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:28 | 1858936 Tucson Tom
Tucson Tom's picture

Of course most young people don`t have much.I didn`t arrive here 70 years ago with a dam thing.I went to college for 8 years,spent two years in the Navy and an internship and worked my ass off for 35 years.I payed my taxes and hope to hell I have 47 times more than someone just starting out.Don`t give me the bullshit argument that I just get ,get ,get! I don`t expect one dam thing from anyone.Your argument is worthless.spare us the wealth distribution crap!

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:53 | 1859005 Arius
Arius's picture

topcall might have a point though ... young people today are not the same as you were 50 years ago .... they are used to higher standards ...

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:21 | 1859069 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

TCT's an asshole, sure, but he's not the person you're lashing out at.

He just doesn't want to help pay for your retirement.  Tell him you don't collect Social Security or Medicare and y'all can be best buds.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:31 | 1860004 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Well, those of us who are not so fortunate as to have so many years under our belt will not receive ANYTHING from this damned marxist "entitlements" program.  So maybe you could quit whining long enough to understand that the younger set are the ones truly being raped by the system!

But you got yours......so that makes it a-okay, I guess.... 

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 08:00 | 1860032 Seer
Seer's picture

Ah, born during the days of plenty, in the land of plenty...

"I don`t expect one dam thing from anyone."  Translation: I've got mine and you can't have any of it!

Whether you like "wealth distribution crap" or not is irrelevant.  History tells us that it happens.

Most "wealth" was stolen to begin with (just as we've seen take place by the banks).

Have fun hanging on to shit while you slide down into your grave.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:08 | 1858675 mynhair
mynhair's picture

How much does the Treasury 'lose' through 501-3C exemptions?

Gee, there's a 'revenue enhancement'.

Up yours, DailyKos and MediaMatters and MoveOn.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:35 | 1858960 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Just what we need. Let's tax my daughters gymnastics club.

Greedy fucking kids.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 08:03 | 1860039 Seer
Seer's picture

Party Pussy, at it still?

No mention of churches?

But yeah, I agree, fuck MoveOn.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:06 | 1858678 devo
devo's picture

Somewhere George Orwell is smiling.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:13 | 1858708 CPL
CPL's picture

I was thinking brave new world by Aldous Huxley.

 

http://www.breadwithcircus.com/orwell-huxley.jpg

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 23:21 | 1859476 Make Less Pay More
Make Less Pay More's picture

No he's not! He is saying "can't you fuckers read anymore!"

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 02:34 | 1859769 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Read, yes.  Cognize, no.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:08 | 1858686 CBTeas
CBTeas's picture

How hard is it to let Medicare negotiate drug prices?  Oh wait, better to squeeze the elderly's benefits.

How hard is it to raise the retirement age to 70 years over the next 30 years?  Oh wait, easier to squeeze COLA benefits for seniors on fixed incomes.

Our politicians make the Greeks look reasonable.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:18 | 1858713 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Medicare 'negotiate'?  You ready for a tripling in generics, and more elsewhere?

Ya, let's let the crooks 'negotiate'.  Perhaps you have no recollection of how nice it was before all this third party payer shit.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:26 | 1859086 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Medicare's role is to provide government subsidy to all of our various medical industries.  "ObamaCare" specifically targets the insurance industry.  Medicare D is for Big Pharma.  The earliest Medicare offerings were to help maintain hospitals.

We OD'ed on medicine.  Heh.  But there's an upside! 

Look at all the people who have JOBS arguing about the paperwork for granny's new titanium knee.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:08 | 1858687 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Every time the Keebler spokesman, Geithner ,opens his pie hole something that smells bad comes out

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:08 | 1858689 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

The SuperComittee is just that, a Comittee. They aren't a lawmaking body and they have no authority to get anything done. They'll make whatever suggestion comes out of their brain trust, which will promptly be ripped to shreds by every single member of congress and the saga will drag on.

There will be no meaningful reform of entitlement programs and the 1 trillion if they get there, which I think they will, probably 1.5t, because let's be serious, I'm sure they realize it's not going to pass in it's suggested form. So I would recommend going long S&P prior to the annoucement. The headline number will look great.  

 

 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:20 | 1858732 mynhair
mynhair's picture

"We solemnly promise to cut 20 tril in the next 13 years."

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:17 | 1858724 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Crash the fucking system so that we can find out exactly what everyone's fucking labor is worth.  It's simple people, fine the "rich" don't want to pay anything for any services or security or any infrastructure?  Fine, shut all this shit down, fucking bring it.  I promise you those of us with physical assets (of all kinds) and skills of real value will be just fine.  Call everyone's fucking bluff already and let's find the fuck out just who is worth keeping around. We are going to get there eventually anyway.  Fucking bring it motherfuckers.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:09 | 1858883 Hohum
Hohum's picture

L of P,

That's right.  Most here want a libertarian world.  All well and good, but I think most of you traders would find you'd do a lot worse than today's culture that worships trading.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:25 | 1858749 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

Socio-Economic Outcomes

Employing others as carriers to get from point A to point B, throwing them away, and blaming them for the outcome is standard cattle methodology. Take the bait and leave the shark in the trap, from the bottom up. Rinse and repeat. It’s not rocket science; it’s social psychology.

Washington State is the simplest example of the bipolar state. It’s like a civil marriage between Mass government-union-democrats and Texas right-to-work republicans, with the naturally resulting hierarchy of clubs determining individual economic outcomes. The system feeds off the liquidation of independent business that it requires for organic growth, like civil marriage feeds off the future earning power of its children, with currency devaluation, until there is none, when the system blows up.

Take a drive through Grays Harbor some time, which has an astronomical non-employment rate, and then take a look at the county seat. The natural resources far exceed the needs of the population, but centralized control, regulation, eliminates its ability to transform nonproductive assets into productive ones. Your / the Fed’s tax dollars are at work everywhere, and everyone locally is cutting costs ahead of globally controlled falling private income, feeding the accelerating stagnation contraction.

The right-to-workers feed off the increasing pressure on the unemployed, who naturally seek their only viable legal recourse, government promises of something for nothing. The right-to-workers love to pontificate on the evils of socialism right up until their welfare check, government guaranteed monopolies, is threatened. The corporations (public, private, and non-profit) have initiated another round of layoffs, and, despite government reported data, private sector income continues to fall precipitously. We are nowhere near the bottom of the housing debacle.

Boeing is starting to buckle in the west and Old Lady Johnson’s real estate empire is beginning to buckle in the east, and North Dakota, like Alberta, is a function of the irrational global hoarding of commodities. If you want to take a look at the opportunity cost of hoarding, take a drive through Washington. China is no conundrum.

There is no plan. The economy is an aggregate function of 7 billion individuals making decisions, to adapt or not to the environment, in a process they learned as children from the example of authorities in their lives at the time. Most are simply replicating programs passed from generation to generation, some version of the world is flat, that economics is a zero sum game. If that were true, economic growth would not be possible. Their self-fulfilling prophesy accounts for all the income gaps and devaluation of all the currencies.

The greedy always hoard until it is too late, when their product is replaced in a quantum leap. The old economy runs on copper and oil. Control increasingly shorts denial (of service), which is the first stage of emotional investment, into itself, replacing the remaining waveform with temporary physical relief of the anxiety produced by the increasing frequency and amplitude of resulting false signals. Pavlov replaces nutrition with a whistle, a spectrum of reward structures, social classification, which serve as access points to event horizon / club outcomes, based upon compliance to the irrational behavior.

You cannot predict the future, for investment or anything else, based on present aggregate data and expect not to repeat the past at ever greater losses. Accounting insurance just redirects the losses at exponentially increasing cost. There is no way to defend the current distribution systems.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:44 | 1858817 mynhair
mynhair's picture

From Seattle.  Communists took the City Council and destroyed rental housing in 2 years.

Judy NiCastro, anyone?

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 08:15 | 1860077 Seer
Seer's picture

Lots correct in what you said, but...

" Most are simply replicating programs passed from generation to generation, some version of the world is flat, that economics is a zero sum game. If that were true, economic growth would not be possible."

Answer this: what IS "economic growth?" and, "how long could it continue?"

Remember: this is a finite planet (meaning that perpetual growth ISN'T possible); as such, I can say that the replicated "programs" have been based on the grand lie that growth is good and that it can continue forever.

And with that in mind...

"The natural resources far exceed the needs of the population"

What population, just the locals?  How about the needs of the rest of the world (ROW)?  At what point would the ROW's consumption leave the local population WITHOUT enough?  With continued growth it IS a certainty that this point would occur.

 

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 17:31 | 1863110 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

Economic growth:

Removing redundancy and investing the output into more effective adaptations. It may continue indefinitely, so long as the relativity circuit is extended accordingly. We do not need oil or copper.

7 billion was an impossible number just a few decades ago. 9 billion is the equilibrium number assuming space travel, but we could easily provide for the planet's current need for humanity with a few hundred million people.

There is absolutely no way to defend the big cities. If people are reasonable, the relativity circuit may be extended to give those participants the necessary time to become mobile, but as you can see by market behavior and responses, that is the conundrum. They will not alter their behavior until it is too late. Then the problem becomes one of traveling back in time, which is why we are popping History off the stack now.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:34 | 1858778 JR
JR's picture

Tim Geithner provides the perfect segue, having said earlier that "the supercommittee holds "the key" to rebuild confidence." – Tyler Durden

Timothy, of course, would like Americans to concentrate on the trees, and not on the forest. So many things we hear out of Washington, DC, out of Europe, out of the world, and out of the mouths of Tim and Ben, are staged.

Civilization is headed toward a resolution of this centuries’ old problem, the desire of some men to dominate others, to take their dreams and their lives away from them and to keep them for themselves – the internationalists who would use every lie to steal other people’s money.

It is the age-old struggle of Cicero against the Caesars.

It’s gotten to the point mankind cannot exist on this earth with the Rothschild model. And, now, the money changers have brought in so many co-conspirators that they are threatening almost total extinction of civilization.

It is they who are the war-mongers. They who are the racists. They who are the killers. And, of course, it is they who accuse us of what they do.

The OWS protesters are evidence that the crises are cumulative. And Geithner and the bankers would like nothing better than to say “the key” to rebuilding confidence rests solely with some congressional supercommittee.

Woodrow Wilson summed up the situation in the U.S.A. with remorse – a consequence of the formation of the Federal Reserve Central Bank in 1913:

“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men… we have come to be one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world – no longer a Government by conviction and the free vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:46 | 1858989 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Informative post J.R.,  those good ole Europeans know the way.   If they don't submit, impale them, and relocate.

 A lttle fun. http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotos-g295394-d318167-w2-Bran_Castle...

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:43 | 1860017 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Wilson was such an evil dumbshit that I doubt his remorse was sincere.  All of his tomes and actions belie a true allegiance to a global government.  

Avarice adequately describes Woodrow Wilson.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 08:30 | 1860127 Seer
Seer's picture

While the orgy was going on there didn't seem to be much in the way of an uproar.  And in the more modest times, though STILL TPTB amassed greater wealth, little note.

This is a collapse of empire.  And empires collapse because of too aggressive of growth.  That is, growth finally outstrips its ability to support its population.  And in today's world there is much greater competition, competition that results in tensions: and the global economy is likely to be taken down with the collapse of this empire.

As I've been saying, it's not govts, it's not corporations, it's the System of growth that has led us to this place.  Growth is the elephant in the room; rather than face It we have a myriad of scapegoats, all of which will be sought for sacrifice on the alter, and all of such sacrifices will fail, though people will find a reason to blame it on some failure to perform it correctly, not enough people believing (not enough "confidence" being shown).

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:42 | 1858804 Moocao
Moocao's picture

Zerohedgers

I have been on this forum for 8 weeks and some, and I have learned a lot from this community of sharp minded, no nonsense, no BS, extremely intelligent individuals, and I would like to thank Tyler for illuminating the many ills and greed and horrid practices currently plaguing our finances and our world. I am happy that my eyes are opened.

I also learned that this forum has many sharp minded and extremely pessimistic individuals who are waiting for the end to come, with no hope, no belief, and just waiting for the end to come

Some of you have the pessimistic view of the future, and indeed it is grim. My first 2 weeks in this forum gave me nightmares of what the future portends. Hope, and a priest, helped me on thinking on what should happens "afterwards". We have survived World Wars, we have survived the threat of Fascism, Communism, Colonialism, we can still do so again. We are better educated than 1911. There are more enlightened individuals here than I can remember through my perusal of history books. We can do better than our forfathers still, even if our world crumbles, we can still build it back. Our current failed Order will come Chaos. Out of Chaos, however, will be Order. And we shall be the light within the darkness. We need to come up with a better system

I hope that my message of hope can resonate. All of you have IQ beyond mine I think. I want you all to think on how to create communities of hope. A sustainable community where we create and we do not consume more than we need, where we create wealth for generations. We need to create a sustainable system that will benefit not just our children, but for the children of our children and beyond. We may not all survive, but the idea will. We will create a concept, a philosophy, that will create Order out of Chaos. We need to, because our children depends on it.

Thank you for your time. I will try to post this once a month so everyone who can see this message can think and try to build a community of hope around them. With all of your intelligence, and perhaps with a new sense of hope and purpose, we can recreate our country again. Long Live our Republic of USA

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:48 | 1858823 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Nice to have you here.

Hope you have physical Pb in brass in large quantities.

Oh, and TP.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:49 | 1858828 Moocao
Moocao's picture

I have no need for such things. I would rather build than destroy. I have already signed an oath to save rather to take a life. I take that oath seriously enough. I only hope to create something out of the Ashes, God willing. I have already accumulated some PM, hopefully I can create something out of that

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:50 | 1858831 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Well, good luck then.  Hope you are single.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:53 | 1858835 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

Well all know how hope worked out for Obama...haha. In all seriousness I do sort of agree on a technical perspective. ZH has an agenda and they push it well. So well, that it's easy to get caught up in...All articles should be read with this fact in mind.  

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:53 | 1858838 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Since when is Truth an 'agenda'?

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:58 | 1858850 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

bent truth can still be truth...but it is bent. 

 

 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:57 | 1858846 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

That's what I was going to say

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 19:59 | 1858854 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You may have misunderstood.

Even those who expect the system to fall apart and that we go through serious hard times are optimists.

Government and financial systems become ossified after a while. They become excessively complex, rigid, and inefficient. History has shown reform is rarely possible. Replacement of the system is almost always the only way forward.

Collapse is good in this line of thinking, at least in the long run.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:32 | 1858953 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I appreciate the post. Maybe I am thin skinned but I get tired of the word pessimistic. If I am at the beach and I see the water recede and I start telling everyone to get the f outta there and people keep telling me I am being pessimistic I am going to have less sympathy for them as the wave comes in. I could be totally wrong but I think that is the prevailing view of a lot of people on here.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:48 | 1858995 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Hey Moocao-
ZH'ers can be pretty brutal so let me, as gently as I can, add the needed perspective.
1) until you have told every dear loved one we are in trouble and they tell you to f-off...your cant understand our pessimism.
2) Until you move a major cash asset into PM's (mine was a 65k Ira) don't tell us you think we can rebuild. It is our capital that will be used.
3) Until you fully admit to yourself that a collapse is coming and had we only elected Ron Paul it could have been avoided...you remain part of the problem and not the solution.
4) and finally, you will not be fully accepted until you burn Million_dollar_bonus at least once.

Optimism is for those still clinging to Obama. The rest of us have guns, Ron Paul and our PM.

Welcome to the machine

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:39 | 1859133 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Predicting/expecting the current system of distribution of resources to fail is not "pessimism."

No one's happy with how things currently work except the .001% of the folks who run the system.

That ZH resident troll who's always telling us how things are going to work out just fine did have one valid point awhile back...MathMan or LookingWithAmazement or whoever it is--he used different names then...he raised the argument that the reason people get so pissed off about this stuff is because they (childishly) expect there to be some kind of justice.

All the myths of armageddon share that notion.  "When the big one comes, the BAD GUYS all get what's coming to them."  The apocalyptics crave armageddon because they've become too frustrated with the process of life as it is.

Once you really fully understand and embrace the idea that there is no justice, you realize that armageddon isn't going to be a huge step up from your situation today, no matter how "right" you are.

It's a tough habit to break, though.  "Justice" is one of those nonsense terms that people have VERY strong emotional responses to.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 16:22 | 1862736 Moocao
Moocao's picture

Been through 1, going on 2 [age is a problem, < 30YO means almost no assets whatsoever, saving enough cash but holding 80/20 cash:PM], proclaiming 3 but right now friends think I am half bonked, 4 I never did because I have ethics.

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 02:18 | 1859756 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Survived the threat of fascism?

Hahahahahahahaha!

What do you call 2011 U.S.A. ?

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 07:48 | 1860021 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Nice thoughts.  I would caution you, however, to be careful with the word "sustainable"....it is a code word used by advocates of AGENDA 21, which is nothing more than global marxism.  It has no place in our republic.  So be very careful what you wish for.  Order out of chaos is the globalists' wet dream.  Not all orders coming out of chaos are positive!

Wed, 11/09/2011 - 08:42 | 1860177 Seer
Seer's picture

Building a defective system back up isn't a positive thing.

It's hard to grasp what will be, that's why people keep trying to hold on to crap, it's why everyone runs around saying things like "restore our country" etc..

I'm sure that Native American Indians would like to restore Their country too, in which case they're not likely going to sign up to a slogan of "Long Live our Republic of USA."

I would champion that people stop trying to do social engineering (that includes engineering a "small govt") and stop trying to predict the future.  Live now, set the example; don't expect others to do what you would not/will not do.

A healthier mind accepts change knowing that nothing stays the same.  A healthier mind also knows that "hope" is a word that doesn't demand action., or at best soft-peddles it.

Again, most have the logic backward.  Doomers are those who insist on maintaining the speeding train that's heading toward the cliff: many think the cure is to "adjust" things, though this is merely changing the speed of the train (and never can it go in reverse)- the cliff WILL come.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:11 | 1858874 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

There's a simple reason why the supercommittee can't agree or compromise: there is an unbridgeable gap between the powerful and those who are not. Those in power want more. They are willing to make a gesture of sacrifice, but no more. 

So here's the game plan: "Austerity" for the 99%. That is to say cut support for retirement and healthcare benefits in the face of already declining incomes and net worth (real median income down 9.8% since just December, 2007 and accelerating since 2010 on top of 3 decades of decline. You already know that housing hasn't bottomed). 

But for the 1%, boom time. The plan is to continue monetary easing through near zero interest rates, Op Twist and other devious methods of QE. And this will have the intended inflationary effect. CPI is already over 3% annualized. Collateral damage however will be to crush middle class buying power. But the paper economy, that is to say the parasitic economy that lives off the real economy, will live off the inflation dividends

So decreased income from all sources on the one hand, increased cost of living on the other.

There is little doubt where this will lead. The only question is how severe the backlash will get. 

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:29 | 1858937 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I think it's more like austerity for the bottom 55 to 75 percent. This "99er" thing is cute, but hardly descriptive.

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 20:36 | 1858964 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

75% could not afford to pay for their own healthcare, retirement and debts if incomes keep dropping and cost of living and doing business keeps rising

Tue, 11/08/2011 - 21:19 | 1859058 Ganja Jane
Ganja Jane's picture

I don't understand how  'they' came up with those numbers or who 'they' are; I always understood it to be 99.9% and .1%....

I could be mistaken but I doubt it.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!