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German Foreign Minister: "I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"

Tyler Durden's picture


With nothing but mute silence out of Germany in the aftermath of last night's "historic" Greek vote, the EURUSD is getting nervous trading down to just above 1.3200 minutes ago, well below the level reached last night following the passage in the Greek parliament of the vote with 199 out of 300 votes. As such, everyone is starved for some clues of what Merkel and Germany thinks at this point - will they simply leave Greece to flounder by demanding even more "reality" and implementation of measures from the first bailout - something Greece obviously can not do? Or will Germany relent for at least one more payment (of €210 billion). We don't know, at least not yet. But the following Spiegel interview with German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle may provide some insight. The key part: "Q. The second aid package will presumably be more expensive than anticipated, partly because the Greeks haven't kept their promises. How much longer will the German public put up with this?...Westerwelle: It's undoubtedly a moment of truth for Greece. If a sustainable and correct course is set in Athens now, Greece can expect our support -- but only then. There will be no more advance payments. Only actions count now." Like we said, hardly the ringing endorsement people expect. Then there's this: " I am more than dissatisfied with the political impasse in Greece in recent weeks. I'm also addressing the German opposition when I say this: You can't solve a debt crisis by constantly incurring new debts." And yet that is precisely what Bailout 2 is doing as we have patiently explained over and over.

Yet Guido said something else which may be of interest to everyone else in Europe: "I don't want a German Europe. Q. What do you want? A. A European Germany." Aaaand, enter lost in translation interpretations.

What, however, certainly can not be misinterpreted is the following: "There is a tendency toward re-nationalization throughout Europe, which I oppose. Germany occasionally shows a tendency to boast, which concerns me. I don't think it's smart for us to shift the differences among German parties to the French election campaign." Did Guido just slap down Angela Merkel for her decision to be Sarkozy's running mate in the French presidential elections in April? Because, as we asked before, what happens to Die Frau's credibility if the current polls leader - Hollande - who has promised to undo all European contracts and agreements, ends up winning?

Key selection from Spiegel interview (in English, so Google Translate can not be blamed for translation losses)

Westerwelle: You know, I wonder why my predecessor Joschka Fischer, who doesn't exactly have a small ego, agreed to that curtailment of his authority at the time. I'll ask him about it the next time I see him.

SPIEGEL: So what contribution can you still make in this crisis?

Westerwelle: Ideas on the establishment of a stability union came from the Foreign Ministry. We played a key role in developing the fiscal pact. But I think there's more at issue: We must now open a new chapter in the integration of Europe. I also want to contribute to improving the image of Europe in Germany and the image of Germany in Europe, because when someone says: "Europe speaks German ..."

SPIEGEL: ... as Volker Kauder, the parliamentary leader of the Christian Democratic Union did ...

Westerwelle: ... then it can be misunderstood. By the way, Volker Kauder meant something completely different. I don't want a German Europe.

SPIEGEL: What do you want?

Westerwelle: A European Germany. We should not believe that we will always be the strong man of Europe. Ten years ago, we were still seen as the sick man of Europe.

SPIEGEL: Is Germany becoming too dominant at the moment?

Westerwelle: There is a tendency toward re-nationalization throughout Europe, which I oppose. Germany occasionally shows a tendency to boast, which concerns me. I don't think it's smart for us to shift the differences among German parties to the French election campaign.

SPIEGEL: You're referring to the chancellor's campaign assistance for French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

Westerwelle: No, I advise all parties to treat every country in Europe with a measure of respectful restraint. We can say very serious things to our European partners, but we don't have to offend them. If we believe that it's necessary to swing the Teutonic club on a surge of great economic success, we will eventually discover that it isn't a club but a boomerang. Europe is not the answer to history. It is our community of fate for the future, politically, economically and culturally.

SPIEGEL: Should we allow the Greeks to decide what they want to do with the money from Germany?

Westerwelle: I am more than dissatisfied with the political impasse in Greece in recent weeks. I'm also addressing the German opposition when I say this: You can't solve a debt crisis by constantly incurring new debts. Growth doesn't come from debt but from competitiveness.

SPIEGEL: Greece is getting a new infusion of cash once again, and yet hardly anyone believes that the country can still be saved. Is it time for an orderly default?

Westerwelle: Greece's future is in the hands of the Greeks. They have to demonstrate that they are serious. It isn't enough to adopt reform programs. Instead, the reforms have to be implemented without delay -- not at some point in the future, but now.

SPIEGEL: The second aid package will presumably be more expensive than anticipated, partly because the Greeks haven't kept their promises. How much longer will the German public put up with this?

Westerwelle: It's undoubtedly a moment of truth for Greece. If a sustainable and correct course is set in Athens now, Greece can expect our support -- but only then. There will be no more advance payments. Only actions count now.

SPIEGEL: Does Greece have to stay in the euro in any case?

Westerwelle: That remains our clear goal.


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Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:08 | 2153947 mayhem_korner
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"I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"


I don't like Spam!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:09 | 2153952 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Guido running wilder with chiasmus than Schiller.  He must be getting desperate (his party is crumbling).  

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:12 | 2153963 redpill
redpill's picture

"I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"


They don't want to hang a rope from your neck... They want to hang your neck from a rope!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:34 | 2154032 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Wake me up when the nazikraut ambassador to greece hangs from a lamp post.
With UEFA champions league going on, the "collapse" has been posponed for a few weeks, as the eurosheeple are yet once more dumbed down to their true state: a moronic mass of beer guzzlin hooligans.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:47 | 2154103 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

I know, what a joke.  Greece needs to start taking this out on any German that steps foot on their soil and any Greek politician that sells out Greece to Germany. 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:59 | 2154189 walküre
walküre's picture

There are alot more Greeks in Germany. They live there and work there because there are no jobs for them in Greece AND most importantly their government stopped hiring. Not sure if you get it. But then, I'm not sure if you're able to get anything. Oh and before I forget. Fuck you.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:13 | 2154283 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

OT but worth the hits that keep coming:

02-13 13:09: FT writes: "UK and France named among EU’s ‘imbalanced’...

FT writes: "UK and France named among EU’s ‘imbalanced’ economies"

France and the UK are among 12 non-bailout countries whose economies are suffering from so many imbalances that they will be subject to in-depth investigation by the European Union.
The 12 countries to be named in a report on Tuesday by the European Commission, the EU’s executive branch, have triggered concerns because they have run afoul of a newly-created EU “scoreboard” that measures economic danger signs like asset bubbles, high labour costs and persistent trade deficits.

Full Story:

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:36 | 2154408 walküre
walküre's picture

It's all on the table now. The myth that any nation can afford to run deficits, increase debts only to keep ponzinomics going is exposed. Hey, if Greece can't afford their government and their socialism what about the rest? The US increased its debt ceiling 2x in recent history. What does that tell you? Wack-a-mole comes to mind.

Few are realizing that only a complete RESET can right the ship. A reset that addresses all imbalances including the massive wealth imbalance by the very small elite compared to a massively poor population. Is that necessary? Does it still make sense that anyone earns more than a million per year? How much can you spend? How much can you save? Why is that person's family more important and more deserving than the family down a couple blocks on the other side of town?

Those questions are being asked. Those questions are surfacing when more and more people are struggling because they can't find work, or the work they have doesn't pay their bills. Those questions are being asked when wealth is being flaunted by the elite that at the same time is bankrupting one treasury after another.

It's simple. The French people were starving and suffering while the elite was partying. Sounds familiar? Is it any different today? Are we as people any different? 

If Romney were to become King for the Elite, the country would face BainCapitalization and an upswing in revolutionary movements imo.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:45 | 2154454 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Westerwelle wants a gay Europe!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:49 | 2154464 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

I know i keep repeating this...but,

'New Holy Roman Empire' lead by Germany - The Houses of Europe Banking Elite.

If their is 'Nothing New Under the Sun'...and 'History merely Repeats Itself'...

Well, than, there you have it...back to the Roman Empire...

Its been a long time coming

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:28 | 2154626 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

YES....someone get's it. We are watching the rise of the forth Reich.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 19:14 | 2155644 socalat_Kruger's
socalat_Kruger's's picture

The thing about the Holy Roman Empire is that no Emperor managed to centralise/consolidate enough power within the Reich for it to be considered an empire. As Voltaire said - 'The Holy Roman Empire is neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.'. And this was when the Reich consisted mainly of Germanic states and was lead by mainly Austria (proportionately more powerful then modern Germany is in respect to the rest of the Eurozone these days). If they couldn't do it then, what makes you think they can do it now?


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:11 | 2155111 eurogold
eurogold's picture

I can't wait for Greece to declare bancrupcy. I will buy so much beachfront real estate there for next to nothing!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:47 | 2154107 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Hey, aren't you Jim Morrison?  Didn't you die in a bathtub like Britney did?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:12 | 2154277 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Somebody contact the Martians Krugman is using sound logic

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:53 | 2155280 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

No, im baby 'Buy Evil'...errr, 'Blue Ivy' - and! thats trademarked by the way.

My parents are Jay-Z and Beyonce... but I had a surrogate mother. (See fake baby bump video on yt)

They got rid of the old (Houston) and introduced me, the new Diva with pics - on the 54th Annual Grammy weekend.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:50 | 2154125 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

" a moronic mass of beer guzzlin hooligans".  If they were then we should of had some hanging's by now, how about " a moronic mass" 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:10 | 2154266 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

throw in some grade A pharmaceutrical (sic) amphetamines from Bulgaria or Belarus and I'm there!!! On a more serious note moronic mass of beer guzzlin hooligans pretty much describes everywhere on the planet outside of the Gulf States.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:41 | 2155258 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Poor education and poor prospects for upward social mobility contributes to the poor behavior of the lower classes.  This is perhaps by design because it grants the European aristocrats that much more separation from those they lord over.


Much easier to treat a group of people like cattle when they are poorly educated, abuse drugs, fat, ugly, speak differently, etc.


For an Americanized analogy...


Many of the ancestors of the blacks wearing suits and running our government today were slaves in the fields not so long ago.  It's a lot easier to look down on/hate the typical black inner city gang banger/slum dweller than the 20% of government employees that are black, most of whom dress well, speak proper English, have no criminal record, drive nice cars, etc.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:30 | 2154043 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Germany better be careful or Greece is going to punch them right in the fist with its face.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:01 | 2154204 walküre
walküre's picture

I'm pissed that their parliament passed the vote on the package. Their intent is to collect this one last time and default right after. Wait and see.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:44 | 2154726 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

perhaps in another year or two, people will begin to understand that either these nations go along w/ the banksters or they are fuked

greece will go along;  at least as of last nite;   as you see, what tf do they care as long as they get the "financing" and their cut of the EUR 200+ Billion pie, here, which according to tyler is abt 20% and the banksters get the rest

so what about germany? 

they gonna stay or they gonna go from the EU?

they're discussing it, right now

trust me

of course, they shoulda been long-gone, but communism is way too much fun!

p.s.  who fuking cares?

this whole thing could be at peanut butter, eggs, and bikes, by tomorrow morning, slewie!

shit!  i've already been there for years.  this is fuking hilarious to me!

got popcorn?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:02 | 2154793 walküre
walküre's picture

got popcorn?

I'm all out and lost my appetite for it. Seriously, can you imagine a revolution on popcorn?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:57 | 2155042 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i wasn't talking about a revolution

but about the bankster deal that the germans are trying to decide about

yes.  as entertainment!

but i can understand how things might taste to you, also, sir

we're not immune to these bankster shitheads, for sure, here, either

now our chairsatan is gonna "fix" the housing "lack of response" and "clear" the MBS backlog

or some fuking thing.  who knows?

i'm fuking terrified and i expect you might be laffing yer ass off!

OMG!  NOOOoooo!!!!  ask him who gets the bill!  somebody!   what if thigs don't go "as planned"?  again? 

i'm sure they will argue that, all things considered, this may well be the greatest good for the greatest #, so what the hell, huh?  generalMoRedux?  yes, communism! 

how fuking styoooopid are we, here, walk?

still, it is entertaining, getting terrified like this, all the time! 

i don't own much of anything, but, boy,  if i did...!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:48 | 2155286 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

How do you people have such a poor grasp of recent world history?  Germany is a slave state run by the the shadowy figures behind the new world order and has been since their crushing defeat in WW2  They are only nominally independent (need proof?  The most powerful military force in Germany is the U.S. Army and Air Force).  All of the important decisions are made for them.  Germany's only policy with regards to the EU/Euro is to reinforce it, expand it, and solidify E.U. power over the previously sovereign member states.


The very notion that Germany might "leave the Euro/E.U." is absurd.  The notion of an E.U. breakup is absurd.  The E.U. is the cornerstone and show case for the New World Order.


The current drama and "crises" are engineered from start to finish to solidify power of the supranational European Union over its soon to be ex-sovereign member states.  After all, the global economic system is an artificial construct of man.  How do you think it could be beyond the control of the men who created it?  They change the rules on the fly, violating whichever rules they choose whenever they choose.


To put it another way, the beatings will continue until the Greeks, and Europeans generally, acquiese and surrender their sovereignty.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:36 | 2153980 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Real translation:


"Bend over, bitchez, because we're going to park a capsizing, sharp angled PIIGS up your rectums."

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:07 | 2154070 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

The Greeks are looking for a payback for what the Nazis did to them during the WWII occupation. 

They will tank their economy in an effort to tank the German economy after taking their QEII.

The ISDA is looking at a Greek default / credit event like it was an unavoidable train wreck. 

Odd that Greece was allowed to join the Euro club.

New name for Greece - Hell......

FIGHTING a lonely battle in hostile territory, Greek-born Eurodeputy Yiorgos Chatzimarkakis is striving to defend his native land from the vilification of the German media.
Although he represents Germany’s business-friendly Free Democratic Party (FDP), a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s ruling conservative coalition, Chatzimarkakis has often clashed in public
with his party colleagues who seek to victimise and punish Greece for its role in the eurozone debt crisis.
It therefore came as a shock to his many friends in Athens, when he suggested on February 4 to the German media that the country’s foreign name should be changed from Greece (or Griechenland)
into “Hellas”.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:56 | 2154493 trilliontroll
trilliontroll's picture

long time ago ..


Theories of war and peace: an international security reader - Page 489
Thus German leaders after 1897 were increasingly
worried about great power economic as well as military
encirclement. Their declining expactations of future trade
on the eve of World War I are revealed by the extensive
 documentary work of Fischer. His evidence shows a clear
relation between initial German war aims and the increasing economic
anxieties of a diverse group of individuals before July 1914.
The shared fear was that German industry, increasingly dependendent
on outsiders for vital goods, would be strangled by the growing
economic restrictions imposed by adversaries.Since these powers
had extrensive imperial possesions, they could afford to adopt
close economic policies; Germany lacked such an alternative.
As neomercantilist Gustav Schmoller in 1900 put it, the Russian, British and American
world empires, "with their greed for land, their power at sea
and on land,their trade" want to put all others "into an
economic straightjacket and to smother them".
By 1911, after the failure of the second Moroccan crisis
and "in response to the protectionist trends in the United States,
Britain and Russia", Germany "turned again to the idea of a
central European economic area as a defensive measure".
Concern for economic security was tangible,transcending ideological and party lines.
Future chancellor and National Liberal Stresemann stated in early
1913 that Germany must seek to "create a self-sufficient
economic area, as to make sure of our raw material requirements
and to protect our exports".


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2154354 malek
malek's picture

Guido himself has already crumbled, I am surprised he is still foreign minister.

His party looks to be on a clean path to complete irrelevance.
Actually the only person of his party still worth mentioning, is Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:13 | 2153967 asteroids
asteroids's picture

At the rate they are creating debt, he won't get either. It will all be diluted to nothing.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:25 | 2154017 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Guido is simply the worst Foreign Minister I have ever witnessed - the others were giants, compared to him.

"I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"

It would take pages to explain it, but to a German this phrase makes (positive) sense.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:02 | 2154216 walküre
walküre's picture

He's actually giving one of his better performances in this interview. Not bad at all.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:23 | 2154339 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

"I don't want the PIIGS to get off their lazy asses and get to work, I want those Goddammed Germans to shut the fuck up and roll over when they're told to!"

Seems to be pretty straightforward to me.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:55 | 2155322 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

To an American it will only take a few sentences to explain this statement.


President Lincoln didn't want a Virginian America (The Confederacy), he wanted an American Virginia (The Union, United States of America).  Sure, Virginia still has a border, but it is largely meaningless within the United States.


The Germans do not want to dominate Europe.  They want the European Union to go ahead full steam until the European Union has near total control over its member states.  I.E. they want to surrender German sovereignty to the E.U. willingly.


The relationship between the U.S. federal government and the individual states is the model for the eventual goal of the relationship between the European Union and its member states.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:46 | 2154100 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"

or is it..

"I Don't Want  A German Europe... I Want A Jewish World"

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:34 | 2154399 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Sieg fucking Heil bitchez!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:41 | 2154431 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

"I don't want a job that blows, I want a blow job."

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:36 | 2155237 battle axe
battle axe's picture

I want everyone in Europe with blond hair and blue eyes, ooops 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:08 | 2153951 Squishi
Squishi's picture

fourth reich bitches!!!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:12 | 2153965 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Greece?  Germany? EU? Who cares, I just heard that Britney dies tragically in a hotel bathtub.  Now that is important news!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:17 | 2153988 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Whitney died in a hotel bathroom.

Britney is alive and well and still snacking on cheetos ...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:13 | 2154285 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

@lou - I think you missed his point entirely.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:29 | 2154944 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

I got his point, just got annoyed by the whole "German bombed Pearl Harbor" thing. :-)

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:18 | 2154316 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

... should Italy default one day in the future, it will need nothing less than a Madonna in a bathtub.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:23 | 2154343 tamboo
tamboo's picture

until she marries her heeb manager and dies in a tragic accident.


 whitney Price hike on heeby iTunes sparks controversy...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:14 | 2153974 agent default
agent default's picture

It's the Dresden Night anniversary today BTW.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:51 | 2154128 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

fourth reich bitches!!!

Yes! That's it! Perfectly stated!  The "New World Order" is a fabrication from the remnants of the 3rd Reich. We must never forget the horrors of the holohoa...holocaust.  Pay no mind to the forces behind Bolshevism.  Pay no mind to the forces behind the Mossad Operation on 9/11.  Pay no mind to the powers controlling central banking and the ponzi system!  Watch our media and don't think critically.

Hahahahaha, you Goys are so easy to manipulate. Cattle have more cognition.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:11 | 2153957 falak pema
falak pema's picture

oh the sweet man, he sees larger than life and is prepared to take a Greek wife! Going cheap now!!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:33 | 2153995 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Fast forward to 2015: "I don't want an Argentinian America, I want a Canadian America" -- Mittens Rmoney POTUS

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:16 | 2154304 unrulian
unrulian's picture

ahhh....we'll wait we'll take vegas

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:59 | 2154197 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Not a Greek wife, a Greek man. But he is already married to Mronz -

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:11 | 2153959 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture




Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:33 | 2154049 Spooky Polish
Spooky Polish's picture

Leave Poland alone - take Czechoslovakia , or Yugoslavia , as they don't exist anymore 


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:50 | 2154121 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

they already took poland when they killed the prezident and his cabinet in that plane "accident"

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:15 | 2154298 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

Poland had the potential to fart at the party. Better to neutralize early.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:24 | 2154345 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

That was no accident!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:40 | 2154068 PolishHammer
PolishHammer's picture

Herr Tusk, the ruler of Poland is Merkel's cabana boy.  Poland is a non-issue.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:12 | 2153962 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

The people of Germany would prefer a German Germany at this point.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:13 | 2153970 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

+1 very true (comment above).  

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:05 | 2154241 walküre
walküre's picture

You got it. And same for the people of France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and so on.

Europe was great before the global puppet masters and their political whores started "fixing" it.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:28 | 2154369 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

If Americans who speak the same language, eat the same food, have the same president, same tax laws, same wage base etc  can't agree on a fucking thing---what the hell made them think the Euro project would work?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:06 | 2154809 walküre
walküre's picture

I know! And why would they ever believe that these groups of people who don't share the same cultural backgrounds, don't share the same language and most certainly DO NOT SHARE THE SAME ACCOUNTING STANDARDS!!! would be able to SHARE A FUCKING CURRENCY????

Now they're supposed to bail each other out? Sure! Unicorns and skittles!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:13 | 2153971 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Moment of truth is now arrived'....YEA SURE whatever.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:15 | 2153979 tamboo
tamboo's picture

i dont want a kosher germany, i want a kosher european super state.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:38 | 2154413 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And if you think Russia is paranoid now, can you imagine what would happen if there was indeed a creation of a EU superstate with a unified army??? Russia would soil their pants...and we would be closer to WW3 probably than ever before.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:17 | 2153987 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

"You can't solve a debt crisis by constantly incurring new debts."

At least someone in authority is willing to acknowledge reality.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:17 | 2153990 vegas
vegas's picture

Meanwhile, EURCHF hanging on to dear life just above 1.20. The first black swan of 2012. How long these chunps can keep gold below 1750 will be interesting to see. Break above 1762 and we are off to the races. Merkel? Who fucking cares about Merkel; gold is the answer.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:18 | 2153993 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Does that mean a French Germany or an Italian Germany?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:18 | 2153996 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr's 2nd Shot's picture

You can't solve a debt crisis by constantly incurring new debts

Didn't WH solve her addiction crisis through more drugs and booze?  (Too soon?)

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:27 | 2154027 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

Where's CluelessEconomist with a snarky Krugman line when you need him?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:20 | 2153998 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Europe, shit or get off the pot. 

The Greece debacle is polluting the financial pages. Who cares? 

The only ones that are affected are the primary dealers. Who cares?

This is intellectual terrorism. Your incessant screaming has overwhelmed the conversation. 

The only reason the PIIGS haven't defaulted is the fake money we call currency. Real money would have decided this issue before it started. Now, we get death, destruction, militarism and fascism. 

Obviously, if we were to rid ourselves of the primary dealers and their central bank psychopaths, we could have real trade and production again. It doesn't require a banker to facilitate trade- only a means of exchange that is universally accepted. We already have some pretty reliable ones.

This is not that difficult.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:22 | 2154338 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

Well said Sean7k.  It ain't rocket science!! 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:19 | 2154000 Olympia
Olympia's picture

Germans are proved to be the easy solution to breach Europe’s door. Whoever wishes to “set foot” on Europe and demolish it, the only thing he has to do is to “fool” the Germans. For a second time in less than fifty years, Europe’s idiots become the victims of foreigners and they serve their interests at the expense of Europe …it is for the second time that they take money from foreigners and they turn against their European “brothers” under their lenders’ orders …it is for the second time that the family’s fool takes “candies” from the “#r” of the neighbourhood in exchange to get him into the “bedroom” where the younger “siblings” sleep …In the “bedroom” which is common today due to the European Union...

Germany handed all the European countries over to the Jewish loan sharks, by naively believing that this way they would let Germany free. Germany put the European family at the “target” of the “markets” and it is collecting profits every time one of its members gets “executed”. The loan sharks who pretend to be the “hunters” are shooting safely in the European “hen house” because Germany has managed to “raise walls around” Europe. One after the other, Europeans are destroyed so that Merkel can pay the stupid and artificial German debts to the loan sharks. 

As in all previous instances, once again its “fairy tale” is extremely misleading. Nazi Germany who used to destroy Europe in the name of the Greek ideals, does the same thing today. The surrendered, corrupting, competitive after receiving subsidies and extremely anti-European Germany pretends to be the unrivalled European power that fights for the European unity and against the corruption. This country that took advantage of the unification to serve its national interests, requires from the other countries to sell themselves out in the name of this unification. This country that even today keeps corrupting anyone around it, it threatens the corrupted ones. It “vomited” over a whole continent and now it is looking for the “spot” on its victims to punish them.



Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:30 | 2154041 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

blablabla, meanwhile your biggest creditors are the French banks and the eurozone ECB, your biggest diaspora population in Europe is in Germany and the Germans are the biggest bunch of visitors of your touristic facilities.

go on, make it a "German" thing. scare your tourists away, alienate your biggest supporters in Europe. try to get your moral high ground on this national basis... it's soooo easy to make svastika graffiti, eh?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:43 | 2154080 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Wrong. The majority of US diaspora as you incorrectly label them are military personnel. And they are not really in Germany, as the US bases are US territory.  Just like Guantanamo, Okinawa, etc.

pipedreams of a european germany?    It's a moslem germany. A moslem eurabia.  A thousand year caliphate.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:50 | 2154122 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

He was speaking of Greeks, now go ahead and find your pills you're foaming at the mouth again and bleeding from the ears.

America ain't the wor-- nm, you'll find out soon enough.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:05 | 2154225 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

He was speaking of greeks? OK, I just read the post he was responding to was written by a greek nazi.

And everything in my post is a fact.  Seems to me like you are the one who needs reality meds.


America? You are a moron. America is a continent, From the Falklands to Alaska.  Please be more specific.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:07 | 2154532 Lets Hang Parliament
Lets Hang Parliament's picture

As you are being a pedant it's Canada to Chile -furthest North- furthest South if you assume North and South America are one continent. In the USA the convention is to treat them as two. And please leave the Falklands out of this - we dont want to upset the Argentines any more than necessary...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:49 | 2154119 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

So fucking what--who gives a shit about European creditors.  The Greek people don't want anymore of your god-damn credit.  You have to stop the bleeding first before you operate on the patient. Fuck a German tourist-- the Greeks should default now and start anew.

Cutting old peoples pensions and the minimum wage to pay for some bankers gambling loss.  Burn that whole motherfucker down first.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:02 | 2154214 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

The Greek people will do what the Irish did NOTHING, the dumbing down of the world has been a success , people have to ask permission before they can do anything , if you don't like the plan then go to jail for walking on the cracks on the sidewalk , or looking at me in a funny way, who cares what reason . You are not in control they are "NOW BOW YOUR HEAD"  Just kidding you are totally free to do anything you want , don't belive me just go try something, Im sure the police will be along to assist.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:47 | 2154738 Rynak
Rynak's picture


The Greek people will do what the Irish did NOTHING

You should sometimes stop watching MSM, and hunt for real news.

The irish did nothing? Oh, only 2% of the entire population together marched on the gov. They were ignored.

The greeks did nothing? Oh, never mind the very last night..... yet they are ignored.

And spain did nothing? Oh, just organized unrest in hundreds of cities, all across the nation..... they were ignored.

...and you're doing your part, to promote that ignorance.

But never mind.... keep ignoring what they do...... until your house is on fire, maybe then you'll notice.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 01:03 | 2156468 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Yes they did all that and it changed NOTHING.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 02:20 | 2168639 Rynak
Rynak's picture

See, now we're getting closer to truth..... they didn't do notihing (contrary to your claim)..... what you are concerned with instead is the outcome so far.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:03 | 2154518 Olympia
Olympia's picture

In case you can read and understand German, feel free to read this article:

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:45 | 2154075 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

If your rant was merely incoherent I might forgive you your schizophrenia. But since it is incoherent, ignorant and self-exculpatory, you get my red arrow of disapproval on your knee, Pantaidiotics.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:59 | 2154191 AvenoSativo
AvenoSativo's picture

Nonsense! So, Are you saying that the Greek don't have a soul in their bodies and that they are all zombies at the command of the Germans?

One doesn't need to own the responsibility for one's own actions when one doesn't have a soul but a walking dead body.

Have the Germans been commanding the walking of the Greek dead bodies for so many (100?) years?

If the Greek can spend so much time formulating their blame to the Germans, why don't the Greek instead spend time thinking about what they should do for their own fate?

Playing victim is easy. Being your own man is the tough part of being alive.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:01 | 2154510 Olympia
Olympia's picture

Feel free to read the following, It will answer to your questions:

By knowing what happened in indebted Greece, where loan sharks created “bubbles” and the current inhuman debt, one can understand the inhuman plan in total ...understand where this plan started just to bring all states at the same end ...understand how this type of plans are established...





Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:09 | 2154260 walküre
walküre's picture

Ok, I will buy your nationalist drivel. I love patriots. But what is your end game? You don't have enough men to fight for anything and your country is broke.

So, man to man I'm speaking to you. The sandbox is filled with kids like you who have an aspiration to do something big but will they?

Do you have what it takes? Sorry, I must remind you that your country is broke and has no assets. Your only leverage is history, tourist sites and olive oil? If you tell me you can bring it, then by all means bring it. 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:22 | 2154008 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Everything is prepared ....

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:23 | 2154013 Robert Neville
Robert Neville's picture

You vill sign zee papers Greek scum! Resistance is futile! Deutschland über alles!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:34 | 2154053 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

We are all jelly doughnuts now.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:08 | 2154015 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

" If we believe that it's necessary to swing the Teutonic club on a surge of great economic success, we will eventually discover that it isn't a club but a boomerang."

I wonder if there is anyone in the US administration that believes this...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:11 | 2154276 walküre
walküre's picture

Boomerang - chickens are coming home to roost.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:24 | 2154016 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture


Anyone else had it up to here, with this European/Greek/debt bullshit?

Enough already! Default and get it over with. Oh? Thats right. they can't call it default, even tho its a default.

Never mind...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:28 | 2154029 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea do SOMETHING for Gods sake! Month after month of the SAME old BS time after time...problem...Eurpoean summit...same old failed solution... A person with any sanity cant take this shit! DO something!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:34 | 2154050 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I've become numb to the news. First it made me mad then frustrated because it kept going on and on. Then it became beyond ludicrous speed. Now it's become just another day in the life. Greece is going to default any day now .... Okay. Greece is getting another bail out.... Okay. Greece is on fire .... Okay. Don't worry be happy.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:39 | 2154067 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And its only going to get far worse this year...imagine this shit when they ramp the DOW up over 14,500 again by July! Summer of not only 'recovery' to usher in ObaMao again, but full sparkle rainbows with unicorns jumping over them while spewing $600 Apple shares out of their asses as propellant!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:46 | 2154097 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

And the cover story on Time will be about puppies.
Shout out to Banzai

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:27 | 2154362 tamboo
tamboo's picture

+1 obamao but i still prefer oybama

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:12 | 2154282 walküre
walküre's picture

It sure is taking alot of media space. Nobody speaks of Italy or Spain anymore. What about that Facebook IPO? Is Greece made up to be the make-it or break-it all out moment in history? Sure seems that way.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:59 | 2155065 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

Since European history is MUCH longer, they are bound by proportionality to draw out their travails ad infinitum....

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:29 | 2154018 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

At least Hitler made his intentions known with tanks and planes. These NWO basturds prefer a more obscure route through banks and debt serfdom.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:57 | 2154166 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

It's becoming less obscure by the minute.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:25 | 2154021 kito
kito's picture

listen here son, your mother and i paid for college, made your car payments, your credit card payments, your rent, your food,and you keep promising us you will find a job. its been 3 years since you graduated and we still dont see you following through on your promise....this is it. last time we cover your expenses, either you find a job or youre out on your ass.................

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 18:02 | 2155351 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

(Ignoring the Germany/Greek situation that your post actually references)


Your marriage is dysfunctional.  You hate your job(s).  You have few, if any real friends.  You've spent the last 30 years living in a state of debt based indentured servitude, chasing cars and houses and boats and vacations to keep up with the Joneses.


Now you wonder why I'm not jumping at the bit to abandon my enjoyable childhood/student lifestyle and follow your example?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:29 | 2154037 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"I don't want a solvent Europe, I want an insolvent Germany".

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:38 | 2154063 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Ah, crap.  I just said the same thing as tmosley, except I used 13 times as many words.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:43 | 2154082 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

At last you recognized that fact. Something our long winded politicians can't do.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:57 | 2155056 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

I, for one, like your long version....very colorful and laugh-worthy!

Sometimes, brevity is not offense to T.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:40 | 2154052 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I agree that it is important for Germans to not succumb to nationalistic tendencies.  Such tendencies are dangerously encouraged by the dramatic imbalance between German fiscal policy and the Eurozone average.

Further, it is inappropriate for Germany to become the policeman of Europe, dictating fiscal policy for less fortunate nations.

The obvious solution is for Germany to start spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Amsterdam!   Imagine how this would ease the natural antipathy felt by less fiscally teutonic countries! 

Germans must immediately start producing much less, and spending much more.  Take some vacations!  Buy some useless shit you don't need and can't afford.  Don't stop spending until it stops feeling bad and starts feeling good -- and then spend faster!  Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1989!

Promote European cultural equality!   Andere Länder, gleiche Sitten!    Drang nach Bankrott !


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 18:05 | 2155362 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Take a vacation anywhere in Central America, Mexican, or the islands sometime.  It's nothing but Canadians and Germans.  Only the American elite can afford vacations.  The peasantry stays home, watches TV, and drinks cheap booze.


WORLD'S HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING.  0 days vacation, negative 12% savings rate.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:40 | 2154060 aleph0
aleph0's picture



Westerwelle : "We must now open a new chapter in the integration of Europe."

OMG ... please don't !


 Westerwelle : "I also want to contribute to improving the image of Europe in Germany and the image of Germany in Europe, "

... and what about the image of "Europe in Europe"  ?


Don't Ivory Towers have windows ? ... or what ! 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:39 | 2154064 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

Do all the Greek politicians live on a military base?  Why haven't they been tracked down and hung in the town square for treason?

Put down those rocks and get the torches / pitchforks out and  go take back your fkn country.  See  the South Koreans--they know how to handle the riot police.  Propane tanks make excellent flame-throwers.  Hope the OWS light up some of these asshole cops over here as well. 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:46 | 2154099 huckman
huckman's picture

Que the Alien Invasion.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:54 | 2154108 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I don't want a gold standard, I want a standard that's golden.


I don't want a German Europe, I want a European Germany.


The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.


Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.


Fuck you! No, fuck me!


Man, they sure know the language.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:52 | 2154137 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Follow their actions and not their words.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:03 | 2154221 TRN
TRN's picture

At least we now talk about it openly.

Is it productive? That's another question.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:03 | 2154222 TRN
TRN's picture

At least we now talk about it openly.

Is it productive? That's another question.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:08 | 2154255 AvenoSativo
AvenoSativo's picture

"I Don't Want A German Europe... I Want A European Germany"

It is a sentiment often expressed by the Germans (even before the unification; I've heard it often spoken by my German friends in the 1980's.) This sentence is not new.

It'd be easier to understand, when it is read as "I don't want a German-ized Europe, ... I want a Europeanized Germany". I believe that is what he meant and is also what most Germans mean when they say that.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:16 | 2154307 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I often step into other people's minds and divine their thoughts also! So I guess that you're saying that you think that Germany wants to be more like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland--England?! Of course they do. Poor overworked Germans.


I'm sure that's what they really feel.


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:55 | 2154772 Rynak
Rynak's picture

What they DID feel, back then right before the EU and EMU was introduced, was to be "one big happy family", and perhaps some kind of geopolitical penis-envy (there were all those other large blocks, while european nations were just small individual... nations"....

....that was back then. The sentiment still to some extend exists, but greatly dimished.... one thing that however already in the early days of the EU and EMU quickly went down the toilet, was sympathy for the EURO... so, the EMU.

If you today would hold a referendum in germany, about it exiting the EU.... the outcome would be quite unpredictable.... yet if you'd hold a referendum about germany returning to the deutsche mark, almost the entire population would speak with one voice...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:23 | 2154332 walküre
walküre's picture

Sure, Europe is a cool concept. But when one nation brings more to the table than any other and gets constantly bashed by the others, what good is that concept? Everyone buys German stuff anyway, with or without a Eurofuckation. China is now buying more German stuff than any other country. China is buying more of everything than any other country. Makes better sense to have a closer relationship with China than with Greece, don't you think?

Just because we share the same continent doesn't mean we have to share everything else. It's a stupid fallacy.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:18 | 2154314 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

i admire Deutsch precision engineering

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:21 | 2154327 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Guido Schwesterwelle is a corrupt gay politician who takes his boyfriend on Government trips to get contracts. He is the discredited former leader of a discredited party - FDP - which is the whore that brought down the Schmidt Government by walking across the floor to the Kohl Opposition. It is the FDP votes that secured the move from Bonn to Berlin and started Germany's Journey to Misery.

What is wrong with a German Germany and a European Europe ? why should Germans be denied sovereignty and identity because politicians want them to be something else ? The Austrian HItler wanted them to be part of a Pan-German Language Group not a Nation, and France wants Germans as oxen to pull French ploughs. France wanted 1.75 million Germans for forced labour in 1945 and got 182,400 at least from they want the whole German nation.

Schwesterwelle is a pompous ass and irrelevant. Silly word play does not change the fact that Germany is one of the great European nations and not a supplier of Hessian mercenaries as in the 18th Century. Other countries like Britain and France should respect a fine country, as most Citizens in those countries do but the political elites thinks Germany is to be kept like a beast in a cage


Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2154347 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

"Greece's future is in the hands of the Greeks. They have to demonstrate that they are serious." Which they did last night.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:25 | 2154352 unrulian
unrulian's picture

so... you want Sauerbraten lattes? or snitzel bordeax?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:26 | 2154358 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Germany is such a joke... ``Yeah we are so solvent``... YEAH FUCKING RIGHT. Recapitalize your banks and see who's NOT bankrupt again? Ah yes, Germany is bankrupt too...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:40 | 2154420 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The European Union is a classic of self-interest.  Everyone enters hoping to get more out of it than the put into it.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:18 | 2154881 walküre
walküre's picture

Well put. Just about like any other family of misfits, I've ever met! Clue: That's all of us. That's human nature.

Pointing it out elsewhere and talking about how wrong it is, that is human nature too.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 14:55 | 2154488 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Guido, your wish might just come true. Continue the idiotic policy you've chosen and you'll be just as insolvent as the rest of Europe in no time. There u have it, more European Germany. What a clown...

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:06 | 2154807 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well, the shitheads might be a little overextended out moscow, way, eb

the bosphorus might be fun

but let's start w/ some tanks in noAfrica, there, and see if we can give thatRommelNationalSocialistAsswipe a bloody nose, ok?

then, we'll take out the italianFascistMoFoz, and maybe fuk a few french chicks b4 we go home, too

or maybe sojourn out in the pacific, of course...

say, eb!  can you believe those fuking kraut rockets? 

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:31 | 2154942 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

And I thought "V2" was something we could get from the wenches!

We must swing through Casablanca, I hear those Morrocan girls suck on your toes in a reverse cowboy.

Where did I leave my "Rat Patrol" lunchbox?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:16 | 2154872 walküre
walküre's picture

Why did they leave the UK out? Scotland was very happy to see someone screwing the Brit over-house-of-Lords. Robert the Bruce is what the Greeks need right about now.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:27 | 2154935 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

ain't they a lotta'mercan hillbillies reckon from up that way sumwher or t'uthr?

purty good likker, from whut i heerd, to!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:32 | 2154952 walküre
walküre's picture

not sure, someone should do a study what happens to good people when they live and breed in the swamps

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:15 | 2155135 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

them ain't swamps!  them are hollers!

and what "happens" to them is they grow up fiercely independent and love music, too, it seems

some may even be germans, but generally they settled a bit farther north, up in the coal seams of 'penn'sylvania and the steel towns, but primarily as farming communities, from what i understand

where i'm from, we had everybody;  the whole NE US is like that!  you name it, there they are, right up to the nativeAmeicans running their off-broadway casinos!  pretty crazy, but the kids all just think it's normal till they begin to learn of dangerous it really is and how we must always think of the "homeland" no matter what!

really!  you can't make this stuff up!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:50 | 2155019 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


The Huns and their Italian allies were a much worse threat than the Queen's boys.

Memories in the Highlands are deep; they remember holding back the Romans.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:09 | 2154536 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

germany may actually be discussing how fuked they are!

who could have known?

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:20 | 2154574 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Take your "european (megacorporate) germany" and "competitiveness (cheap labour)", and shove it up your ass, mister "iraq has missiles that can reach germany!"-westerwelle.

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 16:56 | 2155050 mudduck
mudduck's picture

"I don't want a frontal labotomy, I want a bottle in front of me."

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 17:20 | 2155154 eurogold
eurogold's picture

Just get Price Waterhouse+Cooper to cook the books (they know how to do that) and everything will be fine again!

Mon, 02/13/2012 - 18:10 | 2155382 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Germans are known world wide as being arrogant assholes.

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