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Germany Has A Generous Proposal To The Broke PIIGS: "Cash For Gold"

Tyler Durden's picture


Back in February, as part of the latest Greek bailout of European banks, we noted that the most subversive part of the German-led proposal was nothing short of a gold confiscation scheme.

the European bailout of Greece, is now formally a Greek bailout of Europe, funded by the country's already negative primary surplus, or better said - deficit (don't try to make mathematical sense of that - a scene out of Scanners is guaranteed). Hence, negative bailout. But the piece de resistance, and the reason why Greece is the in situ version of bankster heaven is the news from the NYT that Greece is also about to have negative gold.

Ms. Katseli, an economist who was labor minister in the government of George Papandreou until she left in a cabinet reshuffle last June, was also upset that Greece’s lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece under the terms of the new deal.

Well, they may be broke, and they may be bailing out Europe, but at least they'll have no gold: sounds like a sweet deal - it makes perfect sense that Greeks are taking every incremental humiliation from a syndicate of few fat, bald types who have access to a digital money printer, with the supine determination of an Oliver Twist.

Today, courtesy of The Telegraph, we learn that Germany is quietly reminding the world that the stealthy, but voluntary, accumulation of gold is what it is all about. As part of a renewed push for quasi-Federalism, whereby Germany would fund a "European Redemption Pact", in which Berlin would, in the form of Germany-backed joint bonds, be responsible for any sovereign debt over the 60% Maastrtich limit, but with a big catch. The catch is that "a key motive is to relieve the European Central Bank of its duties as chief fire-fighter. "We have got to get the ECB out of the game of distributing money, and separate fiscal and monetary policy. Germany has only two votes on the ECB Council and has no way to control consolidation," he said. Germany would have a lockhold over the fund, able to enforce discipline. Each state would have to pledge 20pc of their debt as collateral. "The assets could be taken from the country’s currency and gold reserves. The collateral nominated would only be used in the event that a country does not meet its payment obligations," said the proposal.

In other words: a perfectly legitimate, and fully voluntary scheme in which sovereign gold is pledged to a German "pawn broker" until such time as the joint bonds are extinguished, and if for some "unpredictable" reason, a country fails to meet its obligations, read defaults, all the pledged gold goes to Germany!

But why Gold? Why not spam. After all gold is selling off, spam is stable, and the dollar is soaring. Couldn't Germany merely demand that broke countries simply pledge all their USD reserves, and keep their worthless, stinking yellow metal?

Apparently not.

More from The Telegraph:

This demand could enflame opinion in Italy and Portugal. Both states have kept their bullion, resisting the rush to sell by Britain and others. Italy has 2,451 tonnes of gold, valued at €98bn in March.


Alessandro di Carpegna Brivio, a gold expert at Camperio Sim in Milan, said Italy should treat such proposals with care. "Everything being done at a European level is in the interests of Germany and France, to save their banks. It is not in the interest of Italy," he said.


"We should use our gold to take care of our own debt, collateralizing bonds above 100pc of GDP. That would be a far more targeted approach," he said.


David Marsh, author of books on the euro and the Bundesbank, said Germany is not yet ready for the redemption fund. "The Germans have to do something, but I don’t think it will happen before the elections next year. Spain will have to go through storm first," he said.


Ultimately, a sinking fund cannot tackle the root cause of the eurozone crisis. It may cap debt costs but it does not alter the intra-EMU currency misalignment between North and South, or help the Latin states close the chasm in labour competitiveness.


The South would still face the long grind of "internal devaluation" -- or wage deflation -- breaking societies on the wheel. Yet the Redemption Pact is at least a first step back from Purgatory.

All of this of course, leads us to another post from February, where we again correctly predicted, that it was all about the PIIGS gold holdings:

Projected PIIGS Pillage: 3233.5 Tons Of Gold To Be Confiscated By Insolvent European Banks


While hardly discussed broadly in the mainstream media, the top news of the past 24 hours without doubt is that in addition to losing its fiscal sovereignty, and numerous other things, the Greek population is about to lose its gold in a perfectly legitimate fashion, following amendments to the country's constitution by unelected banker technocrats, who will make it legal for Greek creditors - read insolvent European banks - to plunder the Greek gold which at last check amounts to 111.6 tonnes according to the WGC. And so we come full circle to what the ultimate goal of banker intervention in the European periphery is - nothing short of full gold confiscation.


So just how much gold will be pillaged by the banker oligarchy (it is amusing how many websites believe said gold is sacrosanct by regional national banks, and thus the EUR is such a stronger currency as it has all this 'gold backing' - hint: it doesn't, as all the gold is about to be transferred to non-extradition countries)? As the World Gold Council shows in its latest update, between all the PIIGS, who will with 100% certainty suffer the same fate as Greece (which has shown that unlike during World War 2, it is perfectly willing to turn over and do nothing) there is 3234 tonnes of gold to be plundered. And likely more as further constitutional amendments will likely make the confiscation of private gold the next big step. how much does this amount to? At today's prices this is just shy of $185 billion. Of course by the time the market grasps what is going on the spot price of the yellow metal will be far, far higher. Or, potentially far, far lower and totally fixed as the open gold market is eventually done away with entirely in a reversion to FDR gold confiscation and price fixing days.


The chart below shows total gold holdings for the top 40 countries. Little Ireland is off the chart with just 6 tonnes of gold.

So there you have it: Europe's broke countries may be broke, and may demand Germany bail them out, and Germany is even willing to do it... in exchange for one small thing: just over 3000 tons of gold.

Check to your broke European countries.

Or, actually, check to the world's biggest gold vault located 80 feet under Liberty 33, where all of the above gold is situated.


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Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:46 | 2472849 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Brilliant. All this time I've been doing the "gold for cash" thing.

Gold, bitchez.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:49 | 2472863 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I think they call this desperation.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:55 | 2472885 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Once again Germany proves to be behind the times.  Dr. Bernanke said that central banks hold gold because of "tradition" - a barbarous relic.  LOL.

Silly Germany..... still caught up in tradition.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2472921 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

So its Spam thats the barbarous relic ,and all

this time CNBC has been telling everyone its


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:11 | 2472979 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“assets could be taken from the country’s currency and gold reserves”

Certainly, they would be wise to unload their cumbersome tail risk non-money relics so that they can preserve all of their valuable excess currency.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:08 | 2473178 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

As we type, secret vaults are being prepped!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:15 | 2473679 strannick
strannick's picture

Germany wants French, Spanish and Italian gold (Greek gold has of course already been confiscated and sold) because the Fed wont return its gold. Seems Jim Richards has morphed from ridiculous radical to precient prophesizer, and its only been less than 3 months since his 'Currency Wars' was published.

As unallocated gold holders, allocated gold holders, Comex gold contract holders -ala MF Global-, and gold certificate holders have already found out; if you dont hold it you dont own it. GLD owners will soon be joining this elite group of golden bag holders.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:01 | 2473199 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

Greece will happily ship their barbarous relics to Germany.  The courier ship will be lost somewhere at sea...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:19 | 2473262 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Aegian or Ionian, right offshore, somewhere.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:31 | 2473050 onelight
onelight's picture

They'll be able to clinch the deal when folks have it all explained to them by none other than Mr. T of "Mr. T GoldPromise

That is, when they're tired of all that EU Jibba-Jabba, as Mr T surely is..

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:31 | 2473051 onelight
onelight's picture

They'll be able to clinch the deal when folks have it all explained to them by none other than Mr. T of "Mr. T GoldPromise

That is, when they're tired of all that EU Jibba-Jabba, as Mr T surely is..

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:26 | 2473617 Noktirnal
Noktirnal's picture

I pity the foo

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:28 | 2473474 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture
Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

I'll have your spam. I love it.I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam and spam!
Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2472926 schoolsout
schoolsout's picture

Are they going to value gold at the current price or will we possibly see a true value come about when 1oz of gold equates to $3,000+ Euros of debt?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:54 | 2473163 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

it was nailed in this quote:

""" (don't try to make mathematical sense of that - a scene out of Scanners is guaranteed).""""

they only show the Discounted, or Pawned, amount, for the gold, not the actual double+ amount it covered

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:13 | 2473241 illyia
illyia's picture

Oh this is so timely and rich and priceless and they will not allow gold to see its full valuation until they own it - as much as is nationally possible - along with their fellow co-conspirators! Oh, this makes too much sense... Expect to see more volatility in Au as buying opportunities are created and seized by our careful masters-to-be...

Just perfect!

Christopher Story might have been a Christian Zealot (only bad if you are not one yourself) but he had the plot line down.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:30 | 2473300 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Exactly.  I wish I could give you more than 1 up arrow.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 20:25 | 2473788 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Is that with or without tungsten?

Now that derivative bets are FDIC insured (anybody wondering why that happened - take a guess - it's lipstick on the pig `n a poke QE ponzi thats worked well for so few and so catastrophically for everybody else. It's a FED to FDIC middleman-ed bail for the white shoe-ed boyz running the 3 Card Monte shtick out of them ivory towers on the street, visa vi the "Shadow".

Where's Gandalf when ya need `en?

Dr Paul did say: Something Big is Happening back in 2008..

Making sure to understand all this shit: 40 is the New 20. Tungsten is the new gold. At least it `splains anti-incandescent push bunches - obviously the Ben needs the tungsten to print the "new" gold!

Membering back when the Chinese took delivery of US gold from a Hong Kong vault and low and behold if that sh*t was cut with tungsten like low end ghetto smack (leaving 3% active ingredient to give the scraggly cardboard box junkie man pissing his pants and scratching his matted hair the illusion he be banging salvation as soon as he cook the the cut!

Nothing said since.

Question : Would a sovereign depository that took delivery on repatriated gold get all noisy and make a scene if-en they found tungsten where gold was supposed to be?

Obvious conclusion is "NOT". That kind of news would shake the pillars of heaven and the Berskank be damned lucky to get off, at a very minimum, as well as his flopbook bathhouse political accomplices having ancestral tomb stones nationalized as pilgrimage urinals (ad infinitum). Our chill`n be a pissing on tombstones (and more than just `Skanks kin) to high heaven and low hell, and beyond, instead of igniting  sparklers and cherries on de 4th of July and that be for sure, by golly!

German PMs asked the Bungleberg for a report of their audit of gold in US custody. The Bungleberg staff that ran the audit said "the looked to make sure the bars where in the proper bin - they said they saw 1em - honest. It's not like the Bungle's staff actually audited the gold beyond the video feed of the NYC vault or actually touch count weigh or assure the stash of German gold they saw on video monitor. They didn't have time. They bussed for brunch to the `Skank's favorite bathhouse and barely had time to make their flight back to deliver the "audit" report because they took in the sights and sounds of K-Street's Kiddie Brothels afterwards,

The Bungleberg said not to worry:
"The scope of the checks that the Bundesrechnungshof wants does not correspond to the usual practices among central banks," the Bundesbank said in a statement quoted by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper. "There are no doubts about the integrity and the reputation of these foreign depositories." (.... riiiiiight ... if-en you believe that, then by all means, let's get together and talk about an exciting ground floor opportunity as an "Instant Water (just add water!)" franchisee.

Now Germany wants it's gold back home. Chavez still wants) or wanted Venezuela's gold back from the FED. Switzerland does too. Is that why the FED's FMOC minutes always seem to be peppered with a quip or two `bout shorting UST's and "the" precious?

One gold player suggests, and the ticks on my pet gerbil's back got z`nuff commonsense to realize: The FED has been rehypothocating physical to finance it's market interventions.

why don't they just call a spade a spade and call it what it be: "market rigging". What the hey, we call genocide "war" and death "glory" all the time!

We all saw (as clear as could be) the endgame in the homelands heroic genocide of Libyan tribesmen was all about and only about looting the 144 tons of gold stashed in Libyan valults, covering Goldman's tracks in Libya and preventing Gaddafi from receiving a UN Humanitarian award (PDF).

For sure everybody asking for their gold back, now that the "Shadow" , or GCB (global central bank), is running the ponzi, may well be risking being labeled as Oceania's next Hitler daily rage metaphor - and there be a remote possibility one of them could be a real German (a novel idea for a rerun).

Greeks should tell the bondholders, the CDS writers and the bankers to stick it where the sun don't shine - that gold will worth a lot more than any paper. In fact, the paper will start loosing book value when the swap is settled. GREECE take Gross's advice - do what Iceland did and ttell the fractional reservest to stick it - besides, it was Goldman's fraudulent credit trickery that got you in this mess. F*ck `em! F*Ck `em all!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:07 | 2473220 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Wealth preservation is a tradition, is it not?  And it's usually done w/ gold and other hard assets.  Hence, holding gold IS a tradition.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:58 | 2472917 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Exchanging precious paper for a barbarous relic. Yup that's desperation alright!

(They don't call them Barbarians for nothing you know... or was that Bavarians...)

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:05 | 2472944 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

You are wrong on both names - They should be called Bernakians.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:10 | 2472970 magpie
magpie's picture

Those trading card games really should have a "Barbarian relic" card: "Cast spell against Central Banker".

And in all seriousness, i just like walking into those cash-for-gold places and ask if they sell some too...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:09 | 2472972 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

WHOSE Barbarous Relic? Taint English, Swedish, American or Chinese yes, yes?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:59 | 2473181 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

The Germans know the jig is up too. The question now is how the peripheral PIIGS will react when Germany tries to "take over" a third time. This time in a much sneakier way...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:30 | 2473299 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

They rolled in the banks instead of tanks.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:22 | 2473023 Freegolder
Freegolder's picture

What other good collateral is there?

The time of freegold draws closer by the day.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:31 | 2473054 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture


You didn't read the article very closely, did you? Like the part that there will be no gold backing the Euro, as it's being transferred AWAY from the EU countries that use it as backing.

Funny, I was waiting for the freegolders to slam Tyler for that statement.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:07 | 2473221 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I see two reasons for taking gold away - to prevent the PIIGS from backing their own new currency after exiting the euro, and/or because germany understands that gold will soon be worth much more than whatever they're paying in euros to get it.

Hasn't this been the 4th reich's plan all along?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:02 | 2473383 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

This Angela Merkel, (aka the Humungus) is a reasonable woman,

You heard what she said, it sounds reasonable!

All we have to do is walk away,

Just exchange the gold for our (way of) lives!

She promised us safe passage, she gave us her word!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:50 | 2472871 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Histroy repeats itself again. The only difference is that last time it happend in the concentration camps without "for cash" part. 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:30 | 2473044 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Yes.  The Germans seem hell-bent on controlling a lot of these other nations meanwhile they have quite a list of obligations as well.  I guess if you act like your house is made of stone, people won't as easily notice it is also made of glass.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:51 | 2472876 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Nothing for Nothing!!

Where's Ireland, on the list. Leprechauns got all their gold ??

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:52 | 2472887 Quintus
Quintus's picture

I think even I have more gold than Ireland.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:34 | 2473065 SHEEPFUKKER

I've lost more gold in a boating accident that Ireland will ever know. 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:41 | 2473101 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'm thinking it's time I bought a boat.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:48 | 2473130 Vuke
Vuke's picture

Got a nice sail boat for you.  Used but serviceable, 25 footer, Folkboat.  Cost? 3 oz. .9999

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:11 | 2473235 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

3 oz 4-nines? I'll take it! Do you accept Ag?

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 23:43 | 2579785 Vuke
Vuke's picture

Sure, equivalent Ag will take it away.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 23:43 | 2579786 Vuke
Vuke's picture

Sure, equivalent Ag will take it away.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:53 | 2472889 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

"Gold" by Spandau Ballet:

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:34 | 2473067 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Yeah, but they're trading the gold for electronic 1's and 0's ;)

Beyond fucked for the piigs.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:52 | 2473094 FreeSlave
FreeSlave's picture

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:48 | 2472857 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Follow the Yellow Brick Road all the way to Berlin.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:53 | 2472892 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Can't wait to hear if this get's any "popular" support, in Germany.

Plus, if that becomes the deal, we'll see who REALLY needs the help, nd who was just in line for a free handout !

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:09 | 2472963 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Your premises are, that current govs do care at all for the benefit of their populations.

Sanity, fairness and reason - NEVER assume any of those three, when trying to predict nowadays politics and major dealers.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 21:41 | 2473965 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Sad how true this is, nice to see you around posting.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:49 | 2472858 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

Good idea but you wont get mine

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:49 | 2472862 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Before you know it they will be pulling Gold teeth.

Sorry. Was that my out loud voice?

My bad.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:12 | 2472983 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

All your teeth are belong to us!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:37 | 2473083 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

In today's news, the FDA has outlawed gold for dental usage stating "That it's simply too dangerous to have something that dense inside your mouth."

In order to alleviate the problem, they are requiring all dentists to go through their records and recall all patients who've have this risky element in their mouths. They will then undergo a federally-funded procedure to replace the relic with Hopium (which has proven mass-less).

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:42 | 2473103 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

"X Men - First Class" - Magneto in the bank, pulling the bankers silver filling out...great scene.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:43 | 2473336 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes but silver, gold and mercury are not magnetic.  So what was in that banksters mouth? 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:03 | 2473558 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Must have been Sterling. 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:35 | 2474408 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Same as in their vault - tungsten.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:19 | 2473005 walküre
walküre's picture

So the Swiss can reap the rewards and sit on the spoils once again? No fucking way.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:36 | 2473077 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Your gold fillings for my gold crown, says the German king.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:50 | 2472866 veyron
veyron's picture

What happens when they find out all of the gold bars in the bank of greece are actually filled with tungsten?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:53 | 2472895 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If you are not 100% happy with your Gold confiscation we will promptly refund you your worthless debt.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:33 | 2473491 dbomb12
Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:02 | 2472929 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

haha checkmate bitchezz!


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:40 | 2473330 gina distrusts gov
gina distrusts gov's picture

What happens when they find out all of the gold bars in fort knox and in the fed's vault are actually filled with tungsten?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:44 | 2473340 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

What gold? 

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:36 | 2474410 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

The one that was tragically lost in that U-boat accident.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:50 | 2472868 jcpicks
jcpicks's picture

He with the most gold, wins.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:52 | 2472872 l1b3rty
l1b3rty's picture

Germany against the world! Might as well take silver, too, and position itself against all players in the global game of chess.

Endgame = Germany vs. Vatican City

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:37 | 2473081 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Catholicism has already lost the war.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:39 | 2473092 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There has only ever been one real war, and they've yet to lose it.

"Let's you and him fight!"

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:51 | 2473146 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Already won that one too.  I don't care if there is a God.  If I was God, I wouldn't send people to suffer because they don't worship me endlessly or sacrifice their son to me or want to be gay.  That would be an asshole thing to do, and I'm not an asshole.  If there is a God, the God that created the universe, the sun, the atom, the butterfly, there is no way he would be a bigger asshole than me.  Think about it.

History is littered with new religions and Gods and each one washes away with the passing of time.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:13 | 2473242 DosZap
DosZap's picture

History is littered with new religions and Gods and each one washes away with the passing of time.

Really?,6000yrs of recorded history and ONE GOD remains.................which one?.

And HE doesn't care if you care,your opinion doesn't count, and you do not get but one vote.

Believe or Not

End of story, end of life, then you find out.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:46 | 2473342 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"End of story, end of life, then you find out."

Oh so you know what happens after you die?  Wow you are the first we must call every news organization, scientist and religious leader to let them know.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:00 | 2473548 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Do you read before you post your response?  He said "End of story, end of life, THEN you find out".

Except that you don't really need to wait until then to find out.

"It is appointed unto all men once to die, and after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27 - Bible)

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:59 | 2473543 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

One God remains to you, but not to those that came before you or many that also believe in something else today.  

Could the one that remains to you be also the most recent and mainstream?  Because it is the most recent, could men also have had the best technology, the printing  press, for spreading the "good" word over the globe using war?

What if you don't find out?  What if it is just the nothingness that I was before I became temporarily physical?  Is that sad if that is all there is?  I'm not sad about it. 

Here is a list in case you are curioius.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:02 | 2473554 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

'God' is a Quantum Computer.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:18 | 2473258 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Well, now we can all breathe again.

Knowing that you aren't God.

However, you have so many 'gods' mixed up in your post that it is pretty much impossible to counter, other than that you have proven how difficult it is for the finite to comprehend the infinite.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:14 | 2473433 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Here I thought they were all the same...Hmmm

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:51 | 2472879 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

If the Greeks see that funny munny debt is one thing, but confiscation of hard assets is another, I hope this mean some kind of revolution. To the barricades:

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:52 | 2472881 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

>>>"We should use our gold to take care of our own debt, collateralizing bonds above 100pc of GDP. That would be a far more targeted approach," he said.<<<

Exactly.  Keep the gold.  It is the only way to counter paper debt.  Debt backed backed money is a fantasy without collateral.  If you don't have an asset that is the same value as your debt, you are not creditworthy.  Gold's role is constantly revalue upwards vs paper money and debt.  That is how solvency is retained.  Unfortunately, central bankers want national gold and politicans are stupid enough to give it them. 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:01 | 2473194 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yep, now they're after the "seed corn"...right on schedule.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:52 | 2472883 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Why shouldn't the losers peldge some real collateral? Sounds only fair for the Germans, and they can sell the next bailout at home with this sweetener. Who cares about inflation if you have all the gold? And shouldn't the know...lose something in the deal?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2472909 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Which losers?  Are you talking about the banks pledging collateral before they get bailouts? Because, the European banks have no collateral.  The ECB reserve requirement is 1% for God's sake, and much of that 1% may have already been rehypothecated for all we know.

It is the banks that are being bailed out, some of them German banks, not the Greek people.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:03 | 2472931 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Who borrowed the money? Who owes and can't pay back? I heard a rumor it was the Greek government, run by, for and of those who refuse to pay their taxes.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:13 | 2472951 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



The Greek government borrowed the money, yes. by, for and of those who refuse to pay their taxes. 

You are kidding, right?

Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

Familiarize yourself with the concept of Moral Hazard.

Understand that ALL POLITICIANS have devolved to the low existence where the only way they can bring value to elected office is via more wealth transfer schemes and greater cronyism.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:13 | 2472989 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Read it many months ago. Not every crisis is planned and executed by the IMF with CIA backing. Let's get back to the original source of the problem. Greece borrowed way above its means. Now it can't pay.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:20 | 2473009 wisefool
wisefool's picture

agree. they borrowed too much money from the world bank, when timmay was employed there, and he showed them how to cheat on taxes. people like to build up super spy game myths, when the truth is staring them in the face.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:26 | 2473031 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



It must really suck to be a shill.  I feel badly for you two.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:31 | 2473052 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I am not mad at you or a shill. I was under the understanding that only recently has greece gotten loans from the IMF.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:33 | 2473060 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

That's it? You're out of gas already, resorting to cheap name calling already? I guess your argument just died.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:41 | 2473745 prole
prole's picture

How ironic that a tax eater is heaping scorn upon the tax payers (not)

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:24 | 2473020 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Banks loan, taking on risk, for which they are richly compensated. 

Now, should the banks take the loss as they had agreed to when the deal was made?  Or should they loan more money to a borrower that has proven it does not pay back loans under a new arrangement with better collateral?


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:25 | 2473029 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

If you borrow money you can't pay back, should I blame your banker too? Sure, in part, but do you walk away a hapless victim, or does soembody force you to do a garage sale?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:33 | 2473038 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture you walk away a hapless victim, or does soembody force you to do a garage sale?

It depends on the terms of the Agreement.  What is the collateral, if any?  What are the laws governing the Agreement?

However, in this instance, the banks either want a new deal, after the fact, or they want the world to bail them out for their own mismanagement.

When you are losing, do you change the rules? 

Moral Hazard kills.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:49 | 2473144 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Heh, getting mobbed by psyops.... they even instaupvote themselves as soon as they post, as by now is standard-practice among them, and a nice quick giveaway to verify new troll-candidates.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:58 | 2473177 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Wow, you can up vote your own posts! I thought this was like on Amazon where you couldn't vote on your own review of a book.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:12 | 2473227 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



So when you are losing you change the subject? 

Well, if argumentum ad hominem is all you two shills have, then I guess we are done.



Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:19 | 2473260 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I am honestly not adversarial to you or anyone on ZH. Did greece get loans from the IMF? if so when?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:46 | 2473750 prole
prole's picture

Fool! I saw what you said about Timmy and I saw there was a nuance to your comment, so I believe, like I believe in government, that you have been falsely accused of being a bought-and-paid-for troll foot soldier for TJTB like noxy.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:52 | 2473356 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Thank Christ! No one changed the subject. Weak. You were already done.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:28 | 2473477 wisefool
wisefool's picture

This was my bad. two guys to a fight. But the only other time I've gotten so many down arrows is when I am not supportive of a gold standard, which I am still not.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:15 | 2473437 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Why hello, my dear favorite bitch. You really never change, hmm? You know, its kinda amusing - i in the past already told you how you're re-recognizable over and over.... i mean, heck, you really just would need to observe yourself a bit, and cut down on reacting to the same thing, the same way.... yet apparently, either that's beyond your abilities, or you just don't care.

You know. In the past, i felt at least some satisfaction from these "ha! deja vu!"-moments. But by now, it happened so often, that its getting a bit boring. I mean, all i by now feel in such moments, is a chuckle and a moment of amusement. Couldn't you please come up with some new tricks? Would make things more interesting again, since you're not gonna go away evar anyways.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:41 | 2473510 wisefool
wisefool's picture

see above. two guys to a fight. this was my bad. Rynak, are you in favor of a gold standard?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:38 | 2473642 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I'm in favour of any currency standard based on real tanglible value that does not depend on "someone owing me something".... and the "backing" of such a good being verified not by a selected few, but a mechanic to let the public "go in and check what's actually in there".

Phrased another way: I'm im favour of "anything physical" backed exchange medium, verified as fraud-tolerant as practically implementable.

If that "something" is gold, or anything else, is secondary to me (yes, there are differences in efficiency, and "change of extraction velocity" (i.e, for corn or oil, you could temporarily basically "inflate" it).... but the difference would be, that even if any short-term inflation would happen, it would either not be sustainable (and thus snap-back) or have to be backed with actual investment.... which has very little to do with how "fiat" works.

And by the way, my above sarcastic post was mainly geared towards bob, because he (to me) just outed himself as WTB account #893983892.... as for you, to be honest, i think you write a lot of crap, but not consistently and stereotypical enough, for me to discard any "benefit of doubt" (as arrogant as that may sound).

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:49 | 2473655 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Fair enough. I'll try to limit my posting and read yours for a while.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:01 | 2473192 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture



-1 losing or loser; there is a difference ...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:22 | 2473021 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Greece didn't borrow anything, as Greece is merely an abstraction, and thus doesn't exist.

Don't confuse the cartel with either the gangsters operating "within" the abstraction or the overall populace on the outside. Just because some criminal borrows money with the idea that I owe it, does not make it so.

You should know better than to try and enslave people in that manner, as all you're doing is aiding and abetting the crime in progress.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:29 | 2473041 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Unpaid greece taxes are a little over 15 billion, their national debt is what somewhere around 500 billion? Show me an argument I can't drive a truck through...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:54 | 2473362 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

First many of the countries broke the Maastricht Treaty by going too far in debt. 

Second, Goldman Sachs helped Greece hide their debt.


I know I blame people who believe they can keep getting stuff for free off of other's hard work but the person (leader/politician) that promises them they can continue down that path is worse because they care not if it's true they just want to get theirs.  Everyone wants to get theirs but the ones that keep dishing out the promises/lies/money who get the majority of the benefits (privilege, wealth, pension, health care) are more responsible as they make the rules by which everyone plays or is taught to play (and they are also the ones that break the rules and suffer no consequences).

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 17:34 | 2473494 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Dead center bullseye Temp.

"I know I blame people who believe they can keep getting stuff for free off of other's hard work but the person (leader/politician) that promises them they can continue down that path is worse because they care not if it's true they just want to get theirs."

They are in fact worse...they know its a dead end alley but they also know they can jump out before it hits the wall...the only ones left in the car will be the idiot stoned out passengers who believed them when they said "don't worry, I'm a professional".

They will wind up saying I'm sorry, I tried, it wasn't my fault...all will be forgiven, he apologized (a public, deep sigh of satisfaction is called for here)

Then they'll start some stupid ass foundation with their ill gotten gains...for the poor, the malnourished, the down trodden, the homeless and be hailed as pillars of global society for their good works.

No one ever goes back and says...Hey asshole, you were the driver!...look at the lives you ruined!!!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:14 | 2472990 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

But you also can't ignore his argument. Who on earth took all those credits?
Somebody's got to pay. We want the money, Lebowski!

And where would the gold go? To Buba, it seems to me, not to the banks. Buba would pay euros for the deadbeats and keep the gold. So that gold wouldn't go to the banks.

I am NOT saying that creditors shouldn't take some write-offs or that the banksters aren't doing God's work here.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:26 | 2473032 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Okay, you go find this "Greece" character, and tell him to pay up. Until you find him though, stop with this nonsense that there are individuals outside of government that are responsible for the loans. Go find Venizolos et al., and make them pay. They are the only ones responsible.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:51 | 2473758 prole
prole's picture

My feelings exactly. Find out who 'borrowed' all this money, and take it out of them. It's all in their Swiss/Cayman bank accounts anyway.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:21 | 2473012 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

hedgeless_horseman"Because, the European banks have no collateral." Wrong. They have GOLD. Ergo, Germany is leveraging that as collateral.

As basic logic argument: If nation/banking sector FUCKED, then require GOLD as collateral.

No amateur wiki links on tautologies and such necessary.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2472924 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Gold's paper value is far too low.  It is theft to part with it here.  The bankers just want gold...period.  Any lame excuse will do.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:53 | 2472890 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

I thought Hitler was dead...pledge Gold reserves....YEAH RIGHT mother fuckers...GET THE GOOSE STEP OUTTA OF HERE!!!!!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:55 | 2473165 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Germany with 6000 tons of gold, US with 8000+ ... China is an interesting wildcard and Indian citizens with 18,000 tons.  

Damn, China should just mobilize 50 million troops and roll over India (and collect another 18,000 tons of Gold)


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:54 | 2473765 prole
prole's picture

I read an obscure website that said Britain had plundered an insane amount of silver from India.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:54 | 2472897 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

You can´t eat spam.



By the way, isn´t it kinda funny that Italy and France have almost the same currency and gold reserve numbers?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:54 | 2472900 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

All your gold are belong to us now. Ja?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:56 | 2472904 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

"But why Gold? Why not spam. After all gold is selling off, spam is stable, and the dollar is soaring. Couldn't Germany merely demand that broke countries simply pledge all their USD reserves, and keep their worthless, stinking yellow metal?"

As soon as there is a return to some form of "gold standard", wait and see how quickly gold price spikes !

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:03 | 2472932 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Because the PIIGS don't have any spam left.  The Germans might take spatzle if they had any.  That's the problem with stuff you can eat -- it gets eaten.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:42 | 2473110 XitSam
XitSam's picture

There isn't enought Spam (at the current price) to have a Spam backed reserve currency.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:56 | 2472906 mrktwtch2
mrktwtch2's picture

great so the krauts want something that when adjusted for inflation needs to hit 2350 per ounce to equal where it was in 1980?? doesnt sound like a smart move..

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 03:25 | 2474403 taeonu
taeonu's picture

I'm not sure which is funnier, that you had to pick the record high year for gold or that you're trying to make the point that gold is a bad investment by pointing out how much value the dollar has lost since 1980.

Adjusted for inflation, gold was $882.00 an ounce in 1978 and $1,072.00 an ounce in 1982.


Cherry picking (fallacy)

Cherry pickingsuppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:58 | 2472908 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

But gold is not money and its also a barbourous relic - yet, its the last and only thing that can hold together the EU? Seems ironic that the one thing holding together EU "civilization" is being lampooned by Buffet & Co as not for civilized people... Idiots!!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 14:58 | 2472913 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

But but but, it's only worth 1550 an ounce!   The Comex June contract says so....

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:39 | 2472914 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Rapidly depreciating fiat for your barbarous relic!

Germany is now the EU's Pawn Shop...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:00 | 2472919 wisefool
wisefool's picture

"A top U.S. Treasury Department official arrived in Athens on Tuesday to discuss Greece's plans for restoring economic growth and stability"

Never fear. Timmah's got boots on the ground. and lots of copies of turbotax.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:45 | 2473124 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Paging WB7, paging WB7.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 18:12 | 2473575 wisefool
wisefool's picture

He is way ahead of us as usual.

Its called branch prediction. The undersecretary of treasury's name is "Brainard" which is alot like "brainiac", and could get him in trouble with copyright law from the comicbook people.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:01 | 2472927 Fred Garvin
Fred Garvin's picture

Germany better get that stuff on its soil before releasing any mone. If TSHTF the PIGS will just vote in the first party that supports breaking the deal

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:03 | 2473207 reload
reload's picture

  Yes, and then we have........war.Or at  least a reason for war that is well tried and tested. 

But how long do you think a Spanish/Italian/Grek......etc etc Politician would stay in power after he announced that his countrys Gold reserves were going to Frankfurt for safe keeping while Austerity was enforced by German accountants?

Not long is my guess.

This scheme will just hasten mistrust and Nationalism.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:05 | 2472938 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

I see the US heads the top of the list with 8,133.5 Tonnes.  How so?  Ft. Knox is empty or filled with Tungston gold.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:05 | 2472941 q99x2
q99x2's picture

'But why Gold? Why not spam.'

Well I'll tell you why not tuna. I no longer need a light in my long term storage room.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:06 | 2472946 BalanceOrBust
BalanceOrBust's picture

So who knew about this, thought it might raise the price of gold, and then entered the market to massively knock precious metals down at around 11:30 this morning.  The CFTC should investigate! 

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:07 | 2472955 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

If they have gold there is no reason for them not to default on euro debts and go back to their own currencies.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:07 | 2472957 fuu
fuu's picture

But but but why isn't Germany demanding all those dollars Greece has on hand?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 16:12 | 2473237 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Because their own toilet paper is softer?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:09 | 2472960 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Hopefully there has been no looting misallocation of the reserves....

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:11 | 2472980 metastar
metastar's picture

Why would the US need it's own gold reserves when Germany keeps theirs in the US?

Narren Fools!

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:09 | 2472971 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

I'm quite anxious to see if Germany will succeed in repatriating all of it's 3400 tons from abroad.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:10 | 2472973 Dubious Maximus
Dubious Maximus's picture

Seems like all these things come back to gold for some strange reason, huh?  Yet people that are said to be allegedly "in-the-know" like Buffett say that gold is useless, best reserved for the "uncivilized".  Muppets. 

I'll just keep on stacking if you don't mind.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:10 | 2472975 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So this is what unadulterated greed looks like, great.  Hey, this is a good deal the last time germany was taking people's gold all the people were getting in exchange were striped pajamas.  End this charade already.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:30 | 2473730 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

If you wanted to know what unadulterated greed looks like you could just look at US corporations.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:18 | 2472997 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Excuse me!?  But how will Germany get other Country's gold when it is held in the basement of the New York FED?  Will the NYFED give it up, or will a standard shuffling of bars in the vault continue to work?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:52 | 2473155 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i have no idea

in slewieNewz:  germany, asking where it's gold was a few month ago was told:  huh?

big tungsten mix-up;  another lockerbieBombing of bankstering

turns out germany can buy it back, tho, with iou's from the FED...

stay tooned

p.s.:  1 metric tonne = 32,150.746 Troy ounces

this  would be about 320 crimexContracts

'open interest' in gold is 728,000 w/ futures and options combined;  435,700 just gold contracts

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:19 | 2473002 Rynak
Rynak's picture

For fucks sake, can't we just get going with the inevitable, and sink the zombies? I may not identify as much as most others here with my country, but i damn certainly don't want this geographical area to be seen as "another USA"..... for fucks sake, we despised the USA gov for the bullshit they pulled after 9/11... and now we're going to make everyone else hate us as well?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 19:32 | 2473732 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

No offense, but the guy who made the Greek parody video featured on this site may have been right...

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:21 | 2473013 pissing_excellence
pissing_excellence's picture

Fender Tremolo: First there was the collapse of civilization: anarchy, genocide, starvation. Then when it seemed things couldn't get any worse, we got the plague. The Living Death, quickly closing its fist over the entire planet. Then we heard the rumors: that the last scientists were working on a cure that would end the plague and restore the world. Restore it? Why? I like the death! I like the misery! I like this world!

Truly yours, Germany aka Angie Sprinkles and pals


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:21 | 2473017 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

What the hell do they want gold for?  Hell, it's not like you can eat it.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 15:52 | 2473154 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

but you can eat "cash"

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