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Germany Speaks: Not So Fast On The Greek "Deal"
Europe's now painfully transparent policy of demanding that Greece decide to default on its own is becoming so glaringly obvious, we truly fear for the intellectual capacity of everyone who ramps the EURUSD on any incremental "europe is saved" rumor. As a reminder, yesterday we said, in parallel with the Greek irrelevant MoU vote: "The only real questions are i) what the Greek population may do in response to this latest selling out of a population "led" by an unelected banker, which if history is any precedent, the answer is not much, and ii) how Germany will subvert this latest event, and put the bail [sic] back in Greece's court once again." We documented on i) earlier today - a couple of burned down buildings, a few vandalized store fronts, lots of tear gas and that's about it, as people still either don't believe or can't grasp the seriousness of the situation. As for ii) we now get the first indication that not all may be well on Wednesday. From the FT: "European officials rushed to finalise details of a €130bn Greek bail-out on Monday amid signs Germany and its eurozone allies may not be prepared to approve the deal at a finance minsters’ meeting on Wednesday, despite Athens backing new austerity measures." And so the bail [sic] is once again back in Greece's court, where however since the last such occurrence, the parliament has 43 MPs less. Quite soon, the only person left in "charge" of the country will be the ECB apparatchick and unelected banker Lucas Papademos.
Germany's ulterior motives are so bright, we gotta wear shares:
One eurozone official said the group had come up with a list of at least a half-dozen items that Greece must accept before the deal will be moved to finance ministers for final approval on Wednesday.
The items on the list include, according to several officials, proof of the €325m in cuts, clarification on how Greece intends to reduce labour costs 15 per cent, and reassurance that all Greek leaders will back the deal – especially after Antonis Samaras, head of the centre-right New Democracy party and Greece’s presumptive next prime minister, indicated that he may try to renegotiate the pact after April elections.
But the biggest weakness? The very item we noted earlier this morning, namely that "Samaras Pledges To "Renegotiate" Bailout Pact After April Elections"
The parliamentary vote is important, but it’s not the be all and end all,” said another eurozone official. “Samaras’s explanations are shifty.”
So what is next up on deck: a "conditional" bailout of Greece.
If the German-led group of creditor countries emerges unconvinced, officials said lenders may turn to a plan B, where the bail-out is given “conditional approval” and is reassessed at the next scheduled meeting of eurozone finance ministers next week.
In that case, ministers would only give the go-ahead for a critical part of the new bail-out, a €200bn restructuring of privately held debt which must begin in a matter of days in order to be completed before Greece’s next bond comes due – a €14.5bn redemption on March 20.
To complete the voluntary restructuring, where private debt holders have agreed to cut their bonds in half, eurozone lenders must approve €30bn in new cash to serve as a “sweetener” for bondholders to participate.
So even as the fallback plan continues to be "baffle them with bullshit" literally every day, and delay, delay, delay, while America's seasonal adjustments somehow make it a self-contained economy in its own right, which no longer needs the benefit of the world's largest economy (and judging by the EURUSD traders out there, this just may pass), while slowly but surely everyone becomes convinced that it will be in everyone best interest just to let Greece go, and that everyone is sufficiently prepared for just that "contingency."
As was the case with Lehman... At least, until the Fed had to step in with a $20 trillion bailout to preserve the Western way of life of course.
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Man up already and ask total control of Greek's finances. We know you want that, they know you want that... so say it's that or nothing bitchez!
The German people know that Greece is a sinking ship. Save yourself Germany. Don't go down with the boat. It is a lost cause.
http://ronpaul2012blog.blogspot.com/
It's not about money. It's about banksters control. They don't give a fuck about money, they print it.
Banksters : Give me total control over your economy and I give you this nice paper money.
Greece : Eh wait a second... it's just paper money you printed! Why would I become a slave and work in exchange for paper?
Banksters : that's how it works sheeple! Now shut up and pay me with interest!
Greece : Yeah but you only give me 230 billion! How can I pay you with interest if I don't own a printing press?
Banksters : Well you can't and that's the point!! Mwahahahahaha
Crete (and maybe Lesbos) would do just fine for me
Keyesian economics and fiat currency and blah blah...wait...
Isle of Lesbos?....
4 minutes later...what were we talking about?
yeah no shit...Greece clearly doesn't at all grasp that their days of lounging in cafes and getting paid for it are over. They are facing total economic collapse and having to live on what they can produce.
The EU should tell them to just fuck off.
When it emerges that greece sent out €8/9bn(?) in fines for unpaid taxes, troika were happy, only later they found out that less than 1% were collected.
Greece has ZERO trust with its partners, heck in their position they have EVERY incentive to squeeze as much out of the deal as possible and squirm as much out of their end of the bargain as possible.
The Germans/EU are just learning the greek way of negotiating, and smartened up: Greeks have a saying "siga siga" which means literally "slowly, slowly" which also means take it easy, one step at a time.....
the 20 MArch deadline, is not a hard deadline if someone puts 14 bn on the table, and then we kick the can down the road a bit more....
THIS IS EUROPE that is how the politics of business and business of politics is done.
Why would EU and Greece want to sign up to a 130/150/160/+ + + ..... bailout now when you can convince people you are doing stuff with 30bn? and promises? and get some of those banks to take the first hit?
and get everyone else running for the hills scared so they start coughing up money to the IMF?
in 3-6 months, US "decoupling" + China "mild stimulus" + euro devaluation brings net exports back up, LTRO 1, 2, 3 have "fixed" liquidity problems, EU data show its not in recession, downgrades look unnecessary, EFSF is up and running, playing ping pong with private sector holdouts plus there is a financial tax and so on to bring "banksters" into line.
All they got to do is kick the can down the road till then, equity can wobble all it likes, gold can wobble all it likes, oil can wobble all it likes.
Total economic collapse? Not really. They will have to adjust and downsize and all that but there's no total collapse of anything.
Iceland hasn't collapsed into anarchy either.
The truth of the matter is that when you show the banksters what you're made of, they come crawling back to the table and offer to make you a deal.
THEIR lives depend on US accepting THEIR paper for OUR hard work and products.
THEY contribute NOTHING OF VALUE. WE work day after day, so WE may be able to afford us a car, a house, a vacation typically paid with loans THEY give US from OUR efforts.
The term "bankster" describes perfectly well the true state of these parasites.
IT IS NOT THEIR MONEY!
@walkure (im too lazy to but the umlaut..... ) you speak for Merkel and Schauble I think
[edit] what i was trying to say is that you expressed very clear insight and was trying to pay you a compliment but expressed it in the wrong way
This is the sentiment governing the moment of the day in Europe.... post Davos..... now who said that cocktail party is a waste of space?
It's all on the table. People are paying attention and understanding that indeed, all is relative.
Banksters wealth, the elite, debt. It's all relative.
you're realy fucked as me with your brain a bit screwed
the system is working perfectly all around the world.
You're right, so long as you understand that the system is designed to destroy national sovereignty and bring about the New World Order.
VERY ACCURATE & CLEAR ... well said.
Those who haven't done so yet need to read up on the various historical forms of debt bondage and so-called 'peonage.' Individuals right here in the good ole U.S. of A were trapped into prolonged contractual relationships wherein they provided years and years of labor yet never managed to pay off their "debts," which were perpetually augmented by their "employer." Example: share-cropper tenant farmers who farmed land for 20+ years but never got out of debt because they had to purchase seed and other inputs from the company store at inflated prices that just so happened to coincidentally add up to more than the return from selling off the crops that were grown (sale of which was usually mediated by the company or landowner, leaving the laborer in the dark about the true market value). Think "pay day loans" and some forms of consumer credit.
This is the system that the financier elites are dragging the Western world back into. Except now they're placing entire nations into this perpetual debt bondage (Greece, soon Portugal). And the "consumerist lifestyle" that so many aspire to has brainwashed millions of others into *voluntarily* acceding into this relationship.
Meanwhile, deindustrialization and the rise of agribusiness has asset-stripped the U.S. and made it that much more difficult to opt out of these schemes and live independently (not impossible, I know many many here do it, but we're in the stark minority).
Those who haven't done so yet need to read up on the various historical forms of debt bondage and so-called 'peonage.'
I like pownage instead!
They can't bail Greece out because then they have to bail everyone out, but they have to do a bailout or else the Europonzi collapses.
Catch-22 at its best.
Then don't do a bailout, call it a stimulus! Problem solved.
The people of Greece know that Germany is sinking in it's own shit. Save yourself Greece, don't get on a boat that needs to be bailed out. Fixed it for you.
Correct. Germans will soon learn that their wealth is really very short term and that the banksters will come for them when they've bled everyone else dry.
You still don't get it. Greece is exhibit A in the E.U. power grab and its ultimate goal of destroying national sovereignty for all E.U. member states.
Your correct, Germany knows it and have already put a moat (as far as they think) around their banks when Greece defaults. In the Lehman case, if the Fed knew how much it would cause to let Lehman fail the US maybe wouldn't have allowed Lehman to fail. We know that the dominoes will start to fall when Greece fails and the amount of CDS's that are outstanding is increadible.
It's not a question of who's dump enough to ramp; the question is moot. It's who has a bunch of money that's not his and who has a giant ego with a chip on his shoulder:
Madman Bernanke.
Correct.
It's actually not a very complex process, yet so few seem to "get it."
1. Lend money (fiat currency, of which you have infinite supply) to nations that you know will squander it.
2. Entangle those nations in your European Union/Euro zone
3. Eventually those nations have managed their economies so poorly, with your "free money" to help them along the way, that they come to the point of default
4. Drama
5. Offer to save them, if only they give up national sovereignty
What you people don't seem to understand, beyond even what I've just explained, is that how this Greece situation is resolved will likely decide the fate of the European Union and the New World Order itself. As goes Greece, go all European Union nations...eventually.
So which is it, Europeans? National sovereignty, preservation of national identity, and Democracy; or sacrifice of sovereignty, economic slavery, and subservience to the supranational European Union and New World Order - forever?
Make your choice, but this choice, once made, is quite permanent.
How about making mortgage loans to illiterate people who can't even sign their own names?
You think there's a pattern there... ?
I know people who have PERFECT credit scores but they won't get loans unless they put up massive collateral. No rhym or reason.
Banks know FULL WELL who the most lucrative VICTIMS are!
Banks are no different than drug pushers roaming your local high schools.
The banks are quite benign in the grand scheme of things. It's the people using them as a weapon against Democracy and national sovereignty that are at issue.
Europe is like an angry girlfriend who doesnt want to be the one to break up with you and makes your life more and more difficult until you dump her.
Except the girlfriend is mind controlling you with a chip so you don't leave her and instead become her slave. (you know, like the unelected bankster running Greece now?)
Except that your girlfriend is pregnant with your kid and you know she's got you by the ballz!
"There must be 50 ways to leave your lover..."
Like a Vampire Squid???? Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah, 2008! AIG, GM, GMAC (now Ally Bank, WTF???), GS Brokerage (now GS Bank,WTF??????).
Just take the WT out of WTF and now you know what you got, FUCKED.
Yeah, USSA, USSA, we gots us at least 6 bankers in charge of the USSA. Take THAT Greece.
This is what Greece gets after having been forced for years to spend 3%+ of their budget on military acqisitions coming mainly from France and Germany.
F@ck 'em all!!
It was for protection. Against sie Germans. Oh wait...
barely makes a dent in anyone's pocket.
but fooling a nation into endless wars and a constant state of panic with a false flag attack, billions in war spending and countless new alphabet organisations to spy on your own people, now that's worth considering.
Lee Corso moment
<as Lee puts on the Hitler bobble head> Not so fast Greece!
LMAO, extend and pretend. Hopium + QE to infinity and beyond. This market is a complete farce and a joke full of rampant fraud in compaines like CRM, PCLN, and AZO. Goodluck with that crap bagholders, ill keep my phsyical sivler!
The bagholders will be ... whoever is depending on a 401K or a CALPERS-type pension to finance their retirement, along with the public treasury of the U.S. of A. These institutional players are the only ones still in the market. The retail investors have all either left the building or have nothing left to rob.
They're just buying time for either (i) ISDA to ink a statement saying it would not be a "credit event", or (ii) the CDS-underwriting banks give them the thumbs up they've got it "covered."
$20 trillion will look like peanuts during the next round of collapse.
$20 trillion will barely buy peanuts soon enough...
Eat your PEAnutS...
A trillion here, a trillion there... and pretty soon, you're talking real money.
Yeah, like Quadrillions or Centillions - get used to THOSE numbers, we may be using them, or.................
Even VGE, ex french President who promoted greek adhesion to Eu, also fathered the blueprint of the EU Constituion (which was never adopted), now says that it may be too difficult to keep Greece in Euro zone. So Greece loses its best advocate as member of Euro... bad sign.
Falak, at least one in Germany knew what to do:
“Once the printing press stopped – the prerequisite for the stabilization of the mark – the swindle
would be at once brought to light…., the State itself was the biggest swindler and crook”
Adolph Hitler – Dying of Money page 14.
good book 100%. Although Adolf was a bit of a kant and I don't mean philosopher ...
DRYS is skyrocketing on the news of a bailout... and a positive BDI.
Whats up with the BDI lately? Is everything fixed?
CNBS says YES! Throwing charts up left and right for around 5 minutes this afternoon. Indeed, it is fixed.
A small barge sunk somewhere - less capacity, bullish!
Tyler, I guess you meant "wear shades", not "shares"?
Freudian slip
It was partly a seasonal correction in prices. Let's see if it goes back to well over 1000. There is still no demand for anything out there.
The NeverEnding Story (A troubled boy dives into a wonderous fantasy world through the pages of a mysterious book.)
This was a German story and it appears we are seeing The NeverEnding Story 2 (A troubled EURO ZONE dives into a wonderous fantsy world through the pages of the MSM.)
The Greek National flag would mean more it is depicted
Thalia & Melpomene......
How long do we have to wait for Goldm.. I mean the EU aparatchick to declare Primae Noctis upon the Greeks?
There is more going on than meets the eye. Germany is not trying to impose conditions. She is instead trying to break the will of the Greek people. If she doesn't succeed then future measures will fail and other nations will seek to copy Greece.
Either that or Merkel stared into the bottomless pit of the Greek rescue bid and has now lost her nerve. She reakises that her voters will send her there if the rescue backfires.
Clearly the measures are back breaking and cannot succeed given the weakened state of the Greek economy.
If i was Grrece i would be printing so as to have some form of plan B. better still I would be using my last 5 billion to put in an order for silver that would send the markets in free fall.
Your first theory is nonsense. Breaking the will doesn't make Germany any money. They just want to make sure everyone does what they committed to, that's normal. (I am NOT saying Greece should have done that, on the contrary, but they did!)
You're conflating Greek politicians with the Greek populace. Yes, some of the latter voted for some of the politicians who borrowed the money (most of which was completely wasted) but why does that mean ALL the Greeks are on the hook for money that was created out of thin air via fractional reserve banking? Many of the people who will be expected to pay for this 'costless' money weren't even voters when the money was 'borrowed' and spent, and many of the voters who did benefit from it are now dead.
Majoritarian 'democracy' is a vicious farce. As George Bernard Shaw observed, "a government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always rely on the support of Paul."
Please see my post above above can kicking
Looks like they just ran out of road to kick the can on!
And the can is getting heavier and heavier.
Conditional bailout is OK as long as it is definite and it cannot be transitory.
Permanently conditional fits the European Banking requirement of not being mandatory.
Transitory conditional mandates imply certainty that precludes extending the conditions permanently.
I knew Angie wouldn't part with that money!
Just one question would you give your 30 year old son money if he refused to work and played video games all day?
Only if he came to me and said "I disagree with phony wars, the FED, the dept. of justice, bailouts, our politicians and I refuse to support this beast and ponzi scheme anymore"!
They are gonna end up paying Greece to leave the EU as long as it doesn't trigger the dreaded CDS.
How long can one "hold back the night?"
You may have somthing there.
thats what it's about.
Shifty!
The Eurozone is in shambles, and they are playing us for fools as we watch Banksterz 3 Card montie. Its a CON GAME.
Surely the ISDA is looking for every alternative to a default, which then triggers a credit event, which costs their masters (US banks) dearly in debt insurance payments.
Or they declare whatever happens a non-credit event.
As the European financial crisis worsened during the first half of 2011, U.S. banks increased sales of insurance against credit losses to holders of Greek, Portuguese, Irish, Spanish, and Italian debt.Guarantees provided by U.S. lenders on government, bank, and corporate debt in those countries rose by $80.7 billion, to $518 billion, according to the Bank for International Settlements. Five banks—JPMorgan (JPM), Morgan Stanley (MS), Goldman Sachs (GS), Bank of America (BAC), and Citigroup (C) — write 97 percent of all credit-default swaps in the U.S., according to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/us-banks-guarantee-more-european-debt-11032011.html
JPMC & GS not to worry about, with BAC on the fringe - but, C & MS will certainly feel some pain
jmo
Let's hope so.
Time for Global Jubilee yet?
No, not quite yet...
Why would the Elites want that?
Tyler
The question is not how many MP's are resigning.
The question is, "What is the resignation/retirement/sick rate of the Greek police forces?"
Why get your head bashed in today when you can wait for tomorrow (or next week) and only encounter token defensive measures?
PM Papademos must have great faith in his Black Helicopter showing up in the nick of time ...
barliman
There are moments when all is going well for the Europaths and the political leaders feel powerful and connected. But when the tide ebbs, these same pols know in the back of their minds that they are fully expendable once the plans of the Europaths are forced to change. This is the fear, I think, forcing Laguarde's clenched fists in the photo from an earlier post. The pols are on the line.
The Europaths have decimated much of Europe and no one can bear to face reality. Nearly everyone finds it better to join the illusion of a vision for the future projected by the Europaths. There is no such vision except for the dark face of mindless and deadening authoritarian control, similar to what was abandoned in East Germany only a couple of decades ago.
The pols - who are the willing foot soldiers of the Europaths - sense the darkness that will engulf them when they are no longer useful. The Greeks feel the darkness closing around them, but have neither the leaders or any vision to substitute for the hollow illusion of the Europaths.
The painful choice to be made is not a bill or plan receiving approval in some political body. It is decision of whether to face the harsh facts of reality and take responsibility for the future, or to surrender not only body and wealth, but also soul and spirit to the gaping and never-satisfied mouth of the monster.
Currently trending across tumblr and the wider anarchist net. Note: Euripides never wrote these lines.
"Athena: I do only as I am asked. Ask for the city to function with harmony, and I will bind the slave and fatten the master. For this is how harmony is forged from chaos. All of those who flock to and live off fair Athena accept this bargain, whether their ignorance of this bargain be sincere or feigned. To dwell within my city requires submission. Just as the ox that carries water submits to a yoke, so must the citizen submit to the laws of the city.
But should you grow tired of this, should the wine cause sickness and the grapes rot on the vine, I will gladly destroy what you have asked me to create. But I have yet to hear any of you mortals, rebels or kings, ask me to carry out this final task: let Chaos reign over the fields of Athena. You lack the courage to see burn everything that gives you comfort and shelter. Even the strongest of you fear mighty Chaos and what he will do should I let him run free. But remember this, young soul: I do only as I am asked.
Ask me to build you a city and I shall make it function. Ask me to end the misery of the city, and I will have only one option: to destroy it, utterly."
Euripides, ATHENA POLIAS (Athena of the City), from the Lost Plays
He did write this, however:
O Zeus and Zeus's justice, o light of the sun, now, my friends, I shall be victorious over my enemies: I have set my foot on the path. Now I may confidently expect that my enemies will pay the penalty. For this man, at the very point where I was most in trouble, has appeared as a harbor for my plans: to him will I tie my cable when I go to the city of Pallas Athena.
Catching up on my emails. Have a look at this from yesterday.
Vítor Gaspar & Wolfgang Schäuble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIfaoTPRmj0
Monty's old TV show..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf-ODQY7hW4
game theory big time.
how much for the little girl?
just kidding
in case germany didn't get the memo, greece is not feeling up to this right now
waiting for more tear gas, stuff like that; putting out fires; fixing stuff
so you just go ahead and tell the finiMinis that they're sorry, ok? this is it for now
see ya!
Ok Greece has no balls, maybe Germany can grow some steel ones and end this BS
in respect a beatdown is needed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac6cOJb2FvI&feature=related
This kind of reminds me of the Fukushima thermometer: a +/- 200 Billion EURO margin for error...
Go long on Merkels new Waffen SS...
Luxembourg Finance Minister Luc Frieden:
--Athens may exclude itself from the euro zone if its doesn't fully comply with loan terms, minister says
--Although not his preference, a default would give Greece a "new start," minister says
--It is yet unclear if an expanded loan program for Greece will meet IMF debt targets, he says
Greece back on within 48hrs mania.
maybe the banksters" money will just sit there b/c nobody wants it
L0L!!! this shit is really good!
i'm not sure what greece "gains" by getting up off the fainting couch for a few daze
the vapours, you know!
but, i'm open to suggestions!
lol maybe!
like i said 48hrs and it's back on again.
market is gearing up for payback
I don't think anyone wants control of Greece. They just want to fight off mark-to-market for a few more months. Nothing more. There is nothing more there. Nothing to want. The corruption is so great, the capital flight so vast, the trade-union (syndacalist) geist so deep in the workers' bones, the Swiss accounts of the upper class so large, that the place is nothing but a tear-down, in RE speak. Sure, leave the monuments. The rest? A tear-down. Tent space for backpackers. Germany needs to focus its capital on Russia, Asia, and the Americas, and they know it.
Roping - Yet for some reason (guilt, pride, historiy, fear?) Germany keeps playing this stupid gane of "Approve this...now that....then this." They should say, "We are not going to throw more money down the black hole of endless debt and French banks." Like the black hole of US debt the MSM says we can solve by :more revenue". Greeks are not asking for BMW or Mc Mansions - simply a retirement age of 50 with a 13th and 14th payment.
An Unelected banker running the country! that should end well, how embarassing for the Greek people, At least they could have faked an election like the bankers who run the USA do!
You would get a better deal than that from a hooker in Vegas, faking it is part of the rules of the profession, but then I never met a banker who has the honour of a whore.
Greeks, Romans, Madridanidians, bow now to your new masters in the new capitol, New York City, the Curdle of civilization.
a lot of people around the world write about the "greek case"
but i do not see any article on some crusial facts:
1/ the huge quantities of OIL and GAS that Greece has - especially south of Krete
2/ the geo-strategical significance of Greece for Israel-American planes in the region (and the Turkish aspirations)
3/ what Greece represents for the europian political collective awareneness
also:
the Greece as a country and a society is not at all in dept (absolutely the opposite) but the greek State is, though a lot less than the so called "rich" states (Germany, UK, France, ....)
the whole story is very stinky - a case of treason against not only against Greeks but World itself
/??