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Germany Throws Ball Back In Greece's Court As Schauble Says Deal Insufficient

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As we predicted, Germany is a no go. The AP reports:

  • German FinMin: Greek deal on spending cuts appears to not yet fulfill bailout conditions

And now ball is back in the Greek court where politicians are starting to drop like flies on the "merely insufficient" deal.

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Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:51 | 2142200 SDRII
SDRII's picture

meanwhile more porn scandels

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Karnataka-ministers-were-only-watching-porn-and-not-doing-it-Parrikar/articleshow/11825010.cms

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:05 | 2142289 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Here's a paradox -

 

The only deal that the Germans will do is a deal  that Greece won't do; one that let's German Politicians remotely attempt to save face with angry (with that anger growing with velocity and ferocity) voters at home, who will probably vote out a record number of Germany incumbent politicians since post WW-II, opting to bring in those legislators opposed to the Eurozone.

And the only deal that Greece will do is one that falls short of that outlined above, for many of the same reasons.

 

That said, a deal will get done. But it won't be a true deal, as it will be expected to fail by every measure, and by both sides, before the papers are signed.

And you can extend this exact same scenario, in terms of political and economic dynamics, to all the bailouts of the PIIGS that follow.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:21 | 2142408 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

I think what we're seeing are the convulsive death throes of Greece as a member of the EU. The EU has to cut them loose. Any plan that has them staying in and getting a break will be demanded by the rest of the problem nations.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:16 | 2142755 redpill
redpill's picture

the BBC article on it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16971733?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said the Greek plan was "not at a stage where it can be signed off".

The Greek government brokered a deal after days of negotiations between the parties in its fragile coalition.

Few details of the plan have been released, but unions have already called a 48-hour strike in protest.

Luxembourg's Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, head of the so-called eurogroup of finance ministers, said he doubted whether the Greek plan was ready for approval.

"I do not have reasons to believe that there will be a definitive deal this evening," he told reporters as he arrived for the Brussels meeting.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:26 | 2142439 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Rally on....nothing makes sense anymore with the markets.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:09 | 2142719 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Schaeuble just doesn't want to be screwd anymore and besides, their "deal" has to pass through Greek parliament. Chances are slim it will....

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:15 | 2142752 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

He knows about the scheduled bond redemption of the 20th of March. Default is unavoidable at that date... so why wait if the unavoidable is around the corner...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:23 | 2142793 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

Dow breaks 13000, DAX over 7000 and the Easter Bunny brings us all silver eggs in a gold basket.  As Tylers have often said Greece is doing itself in, the rest chase volatility.  Where is the hedge ?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 23:03 | 2144526 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

The hedge, my friend, is cold cash as of March 6th and then a little "Spring Break" and we all come back around the end of March to look at the smouldering ruins and pick up the pieces   ;-)

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 19:13 | 2143926 satan2liberals
satan2liberals's picture

What gives ?

How come the market didn't react to this at all?

 I heard it on a news break listening to Rush so it's not a buried story?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:49 | 2142550 pkea
pkea's picture

As I said yesterday there will be no deal. THIS IS IT. The greek game is over by the end of february. There is no agreement in germany. Nobody will print 2 trillion or give it to the EU, there is not enough to leverage. even if there will be attempts to simulate any deal, the markets are done. take your profits ladies and gentlemen.

 

I am loving the timeline development.

from bloomberg

European finance chiefs are set to defer endorsing a decision on a 130 billion-euro ($173 billion) rescue for Greece

“I don’t think we will have a definitive and final decision tonight,” Luxembourg Finance Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, chairman of the group of euro-area finance chiefs, said as he arrived for an emergency meeting of the group in Brussels.| Their next scheduled session is Feb. 20.

All dates are disclosed. from juncker himself, what else  does anyone want to know?

 

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:08 | 2142714 battle axe
battle axe's picture

Does any European politician ever tell the truth? Wait why am I even asking that question.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:53 | 2142930 Q.E.easy
Q.E.easy's picture

Does any politician ever tell the truth?

 

There, fixed it for ya.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 21:38 | 2144334 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They can't do it (Greece) because they know their own populace won't go for it at all.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 01:26 | 2144849 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The biscuit wheels are coming off the gravy train, throwing all the riders off/out.  Will shots of Ouzo take away the pain?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:55 | 2142632 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

This is delicious...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142203 duo
duo's picture

I guess a 20% pension and wage cut isn't enough.  Total destruction of the Greek economy is the goal.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2142232 gojam
gojam's picture

Total subordination. The Germans want the Greeks to invite them in this time.

Merkel is the German Dominatrix (if that image doesn't put you off your food)

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:49 | 2142591 walküre
walküre's picture

Complete and utter bullshit.

Do you honestly think that Greeks would pay higher taxes to support Germany if the shoe was on the other foot?

Hello? Greeks paying taxes???? Haha. Fight your own fight with the bankers. We did and we lost. It cost us our nationhood.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:57 | 2142250 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

that has been my thought all along considering odious debt. If the greek people overthrow the government, the debt goes away. I don't think it would be considered a credit event thus saving the banks from derivative destruction.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:29 | 2142465 duo
duo's picture

The Greek economy has already shrunk 20%.  Continued austerity will shrink the economy in a nonlinear fashion until collapse.  I thought the era of colonialism had ended.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:39 | 2142537 Flounder
Flounder's picture

Not so fast.  This weather report from Protothema is foggy. http://www.protothema.gr/economy/article/?aid=176090 (translated w/google)

Heavy climate for Greece in Brussels
They challenge the lenders 'agreement' of heads!

The climate that tried to create by Thursday morning the Germans is that the current Eurogroup will not decide on the Greek loan. In fact, as revealed in protothema.gr, the Finance Minister faces a climate of suspicion for the agreement of leaders.
Encoding, the main points of the ongoing consultation between Evangelos Venizelos and the sixteen bonds from other countries of the eurozone, we can note the following:
 
1. In Brussels, the climate in Greece is heavy
 
2. They question our lenders that no real agreement between the Greek parties
 
3. They vague commitments and "weak"
 
4. In the working group expressed concerns that preceded even the overthrow of the agreement on exchange of old bonds with new Greek government (the PSI)
 
5. Tough stance keeps asking Berlin substantive and written commitments from the Greek political leadership
 
6. Expressing concern about the attitude of Antonis Samaras noting that he is before the polls and therefore will be required to implement the agreement.
 
7. The members of the Greek delegation besieged by members of the other countries participating in the Eurogroup, who ask them: if there is an agreement, what exactly is this agreement we can not guarantee that it will pass the House.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:51 | 2142606 walküre
walküre's picture

20% reduction accross the board and the Greek government dreaming about a return to growth in 2013.

That's bull.

The game is over. The socialist party is over for Greece. Soon others will follow, including Germany! Socialism is only possible as long as the bankers play along and can earn fees.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142206 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Germany will not accept the deal unless Greece licks the boots.

Germany is heavily into BDSM.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142216 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

And now itz time to danz...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZR9SA5pOg

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:54 | 2142226 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

It's not Germany, creditmoney is by design sadomasochism.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2142238 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Same with the bondage and dominance.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:04 | 2142296 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I remember Mexico. And Brazil. And Argentina, oh, so many times Argentina.

nothing new under the sun

though some thought this can only happen to "3rd world countries"

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:12 | 2142343 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Yeah but were Mexico, Brazil and Argentina taken over by another country? No.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:17 | 2142384 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

yeah, you are right, I have to put on my uniform and go to Greece tomorrow and hang some dissidents... wait a moment!

what are you talking about? who is taking over Greece? you?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:38 | 2142530 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Germany wants total control of the Greek economy along with ``we must pay foreign debt first`` in their constitution. It's foreign domination. Greece would become the slaves of the banksters. People would see this as ``slaves to Germany``. No people who respect themselves would agree to that.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:53 | 2142626 walküre
walküre's picture

They can always say NO to the deal and the money. You think Germany really has an interest to remotely manage the books of Greece or any other country for that matter? Makes no sense whatsoever. So please, Greece say NO and leave us alone!

 

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:13 | 2142356 macaes4
macaes4's picture

ALL THESE COUNTRIES ARE BETTER NOW THAN URS!!!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:18 | 2142386 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

You must be kidding. Mexico is basically in civil war. 42 000 dead in the last 5 years.

Then Argentina and Brazil got atrocious poverty rates and big big big ghettos.

Greece, right now, is way better off.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:47 | 2142587 GCT
GCT's picture

This is all about making it as painful as possible.  Greece is the experiment in my eyes.  Already Ireland is asking for the same deal.  The EU cannot continue to have soverign countries go bankrupt (even though most readers here aready know they are bankrupt).  This is going to be as nasty as they can make it to keep the other EU countries from asking for the same thing.  This is the only way they can keep this train running.

If Greece gets off easy the other countries will follow suit.  I think this may backfire on them and other countries after seeing all the pain coming to Greece may just tell the EU goodbye and pull an Iceland.  But you never know with all the politicians selling their people basically into debt slavery.  Yes Greece has been on easy street with the EU's money and needs to just default. Greek politicians will not allow this to happen.  If the populice rises up and overthrows the governement the default will still be a defult.  Does not matter who is in charge.

The EU is making an example of Greece for the other countries waiting in the wing to see what will happen to them if they do not tow the line and bail out the banks and nothing more.  Never let a crisis go to waste.  The other countries are watching this closely before they play their hands.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:30 | 2142817 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

GCT -"if Greece gets off easy..."  Greece si agreeing now to a slow death, indebted and emasculated.  Is that a deal for Ireland and the others ?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:28 | 2143095 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Greece is agreeing to eat crow -- no hard promises. This is a pissing contest where the creditors want to reset the pecking order -- "the chattle are getting a little too uppity with this illusion that they have a say in matters." Greece has already renegged twice on "agreements", what's one more? Right up there with check is in the mail, I'll call you in the morning and of course I love you baby. There are no contracts in the 21st century - especially at the sovereign level.

The only way these agreements get enforced at this point is by ground troops and I really don't see that happening -- does anyone really think this? The intellectuals in Europe will defend their 4th Reich ad infinitum otherwise they would be out of jobs themselves.

Agree to the deal, get your tranche and hit replay on the default drama.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 16:56 | 2143464 smiler03
smiler03's picture

@ GCT  -"Greece may just tell the EU goodbye and pull an Iceland."

 

When will you illiterate morons stop pushing this bullshit about Iceland? Iceland has a debt to GDP ratio of 90%+ and runs a budget deficit..

Iceland NEVER defaulted on a single króna of SOVEREIGN DEBT. 

Iceland did not bail out their banks, that is all. Learn something and get it into your thick head that Iceland is an irrelevant case to quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 19:47 | 2144016 GCT
GCT's picture

Smiler thanks for enlightening me.  I did read the link and thank you.  I made a mistake.  One of the reasons I come here is to learn.  I still believe they are making an example out of Greece.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 20:23 | 2144122 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Brazil, Argentina & Mexico debt crises didn't take place against a backdrop where central banks had the galactically ginormous balance sheets they do now, where the global banking/financial sector wasn't on a central bank life support line, and where  credit derivative risk (aka weapons of financial mass destruction) of some 800 trillion USD notional wasn't just 'floating out there' in the ether.

On top of that, when Brazil, Argentina & Mexico underwent their sovereign debt problems, their respective percentages of global GDP were proverbial grains of sand on the global economy beach.

This is so far different than the past debt crises sustained by Brazil, Argentina & Mexico that it's not only not in the same solar system, but it's not even in the same galaxy.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:53 | 2142615 GenX Investor
GenX Investor's picture

Ja...Das Boot

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142207 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Ach WAS!  bitchez!

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2142211 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Imagine my utter total shock ... I did NOT see this coming ...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142218 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Is it March already?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:06 | 2142310 DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

and it was all going so well up to this point :(

How could it all go wrong like this? So suddenly and without warning...

You can't blame the people in charge - no-one could have seen this coming.

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142214 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Blood from olives?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142215 Marge N. Callz
Marge N. Callz's picture

This is bullish no doubt. Just as CNBC spins the labor minister resigning as good news. Afterall when you have no labor force who needs a labor minister?

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:53 | 2142217 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:56 | 2142243 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

lizzy, I know that you are a bigshot at ZH and I do like your last post, but do you really think this is funny? seriously, I don't get your humour...

Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2142255 gojam
gojam's picture

I agree Ghordius.

Needless bad taste IMO.

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