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Germany's Coalition FDP Party Threatens To Kill The EFSF If Liesman's Rumormill Does Not Stop

Tyler Durden's picture


While overnight markets are rocking based on continued speculation coming from some completely uncorroborated and unconfirmed source that Europe has just boldly gone where even Goldman's Abacus has not dared to go before courtesy of the ECB's acceptance of a CDO squared "Enron Special" SPV, Germany has once again made it very clear that not only will there not be any expansion in the EFSF in regular terms, but certainly not in structural ones. As Goldman's Dirk Schumacher makes it very clear, any attempts at imposing on Germany a fait accompli reality that has no bearing in actual reality (especially one that excludes the only relevant decision-maker in Europe) will be met with increasing protests from the entire German ruling class. According to Die Welt, the Free Democratic Party is threatening to vote against overhaul of EFSF if discussions about leveraging fund don’t stop. Goldman elaborates: "FDP and CSU not fond of further increase of EFSF. Leading figures from the FDP and the CSU, the Bavarian branch of the CDU, rejected any thoughts of a further increase of the EFSF (either directly or indirectly through leverage). FDP general secretary Lindner said that "the chancellor should make clear immediately that there is no change to the business model of the EFSF." So, yes, consider that an official denial of the Liesman rumor which as typical, has no confirmation anywhere else.

In other news, Germany did report some good news, but hardly the slam dunk Eurocrats were hoping for with the report of its GfK consumer confidence, which came in unchanged at 5.2%, on expectations it would drop to 5.0%. Again from Goldman:

Stable consumer confidence. GfK consumer confidence remained stable in October recording an unchanged level of 5.2. Among the subcomponents 'business cycle expectations' continued their downward trend (+4.8 after 13.4), while 'income expectations' rebounded strongly (35.1 after 27.6). The 'willingness to buy' index declined (29.7 after 36.9), but still remains high on a historical basis (see chart). While it seems that a growing number of households expect a deterioration of the economic outlook, most think that this will not necessarily affect their individual situation.


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Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:33 | 1713969 Barb Dwire
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And not a peep in the news about Germany's top judge saying EFSF was essentially dead in the water. Crazy times.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:41 | 1713982 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

That was more or less a regurgitation of the German top court's decision from two weeks ago. Nothing explicitly new, just another fresh warning that the German people are nearing their breaking point.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:59 | 1713998 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Souce link below.

Decision old, but interview given by Chief Justice new. 4 days before vote also odd. You think he might be wanting to convey a message? :)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:44 | 1714048 max2205
max2205's picture

I guess the Germans are just figuring out "someone else" runs their country other than it people.... Just like the USA ect

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:49 | 1714050 max2205
max2205's picture

Everyone knows Liesman's source is none other than dr strangelove aka TIMMMMAGH

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 11:55 | 1715066 crashguru
crashguru's picture

Even more interesting is the reaction of the German stockmarket to Angela Merkel saying Greece default cant be ruled out.

Merkel: Staatsbankrott Griechenlands nicht mehr auszuschließen

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:39 | 1713970 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

don't mess viz ze germans, zey vill do it

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:57 | 1714031 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

Don't mention the War!

Fawlty Towers:


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:34 | 1713971 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

From Telegraph:

Confirmation of the talks, however, sparked outrage in Germany, where opposition politicians threatened to derail the plans by voting against a key amendment to the bail-out fund this Thursday.

The head of Germany's constitutional court also piled on the pressure by warning the government not to circumvent the law "by the back door".

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:47 | 1714049 max2205
max2205's picture

Hah backdoor them is a favorite tool of the squid

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:35 | 1713972 magpie
magpie's picture

Prepare for European Solidarity offensive against German politicians starving Greek orphans & widows in 3..2..1

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:37 | 1713973 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

(Newsreader)..."midst the noisome  distraction of NY city-wide protests, violence and indiscriminate looting, the Dow Jones eked out modest 3.5% gains today. The index got a boost early on,  after an early morning explosion in downtown LA. Airline stocks, which immediately soared on the back of the conflagration, eased back a little after it was shown that  Al Queda was not involved. However this was not enough to dent general economic optimism.  The last 30 minutes saw serious gains in the index as Wall St anticipated a post 18th green address from the President. Hopes are high that the 300 trillion debt ceiling increase will pass congressional muster and Capitol Hill will again "pass this Bill".   Back to you Jenny

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:38 | 1713976 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

The talking heads on bubblevision have repeatedly stated the German reluctance to follow the Keynesian model is due to 'that wheel barrel thing'. Referring to the Weimar hyperinflation where it took a wheel barrel full of Marks to buy a loaf of bread. It seems they blame the German memory for the EU crisis.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:45 | 1714025 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

It could also be the fact that the Greeks are living beyond their means and the Germans know that eventually it will affect their standard of living (either through default on the debt leading to higher taxes or money printing).

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:38 | 1713977 bgilliam83
bgilliam83's picture

Obama and Bernanke are both niggers!  You can print that too

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:01 | 1714001 Peter K
Peter K's picture

...... in a dialectical materialist sort of way :)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:40 | 1713981 caerus
caerus's picture

in other stoned


it's weird cuz he's hitting on a blind girl

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:53 | 1713993 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

dont listen to that shit when you r baked man....

get this, turn the base up and jump around the room.

or get stuck on the couch eating chocolate.. your choice mac

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:02 | 1713994 caerus
caerus's picture

floyd 2001

and i'm out

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:03 | 1714004 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

ibiza is the place for you.... and me.



Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:37 | 1714019 Western
Western's picture

Blind girls need lovin' too.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:44 | 1713984 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

the German courts are very activist on this, and this could be a sign that the political backlash is incredibly intense, because courts and judges are humans that are not entirely immune to the consequences of massively unpopular actions.

Aside from German Law and the battles in the legislative branch of their government, the German People are just now starting to get pissed off over this whole, massive scam, and that trend will accelerate at the speed of light since it is now dawning upon them that what Merkel seemingly is at least suggesting is possible (the SPV, AND the ESFS, for that matter) will inevitably bleed their national wealth and future dry.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:23 | 1714038 criticaster
criticaster's picture

German banks were involved in uber derivates (CDO, CDO^2 and the like) - Deutsche Bank im looking at you kid.

Commerzbank is apparently in the shit-pan.

German banks have lent greece money.

Germans have benfitted from exporting their cars, designer kitchens and ultra-efficient kitchen appliances to countries in the eurozone, particularly since they have benefitted from those countries sharing their currency, while - lets be honest - they have a lot of weight in determining fiscal policy.

Many german politicians have been very pro the eurozone (at least when it suited them) and have also used membership to their advantage.

So, when the s*it hits the fan - I say 'suck it up'.

Thank God, the UK is not in the Euro.

(and that has absolutely nothing to do with the war...)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 06:49 | 1714114 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Germans have benfitted from exporting their cars, designer kitchens and ultra-efficient kitchen appliances to countries in the eurozone, particularly since they have benefitted from those countries sharing their currency, while - lets be honest - they have a lot of weight in determining fiscal policy.


Germans benefited from the EMU?

NO, germans were impoverished by the EMU, while multinationals and bankers got rich. To all those exporters that profit by ruining the domestic market and purchasing power of the population, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE COUNTRY, PARASITE SCUM!

Did i mention already that you can go fuck yourselves?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:25 | 1714199 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

regular Germans "did not benefit from the EMU" because they implemented at the same time the "Initiative 2010" in order to keep wages low and so to keep most of the industrial base at home, instead of shipping it all to China

regular Germans were always skeptical of the EUR and experienced some deflationary pressures because of it (I'm talking about perceptions)

regular Germans are "naturally conservative", i.e. they will stick to the plan (including the EUR) until reality kicks in, hard

regular Germans are incredibly frugal, peace loving, hard working and hell bent on all kind of efficiencies

I'd like to have one EUR for every comment I've read in blogs where people were writing about Germans without having a clue of them

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:27 | 1714208 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Full agreement here.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:39 | 1714231 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

You have to understand that on this blog in the EUR-related articles you'll find a lot of City-Bankers who think that because GrandPa and Pa fought the wars and because they grew up watching Fawlty Towers they practically "own" all comments about Germany

Fact is the Brits were always more commercially "adept" then the Germans, they always excelled in marketing even valueless things

Germans generally have to produce first something they themselves believe in before they even think about selling it

this causes a permanent misreading of the whole situation around the EUR, for the Brits the Germans are at a cracking point (they would) while the Germans have not yet reached boiling temperature (perhaps by November?)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 12:13 | 1715140 TruthInSunshine
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The sovereignty of the German state is inviolate and anchored in perpetuity by basic law. It may not be abandoned by the legislature (even with its powers to amend the constitution). There is little leeway left for giving up core powers to the EU. If one wants to go beyond this limit — which might be politically legitimate and desirable  — then Germany must give itself a new constitution. A referendum would be necessary. This cannot be done without the people.

Chief Justice of the German Constititional Court, 9/27/2011


*Sixteen judges make up the Federal Constitutional Court, Germany's highest and most important judicial body. They are selected to serve twelve-year, non-renewable terms and can only be removed from office for abuse of their position and then only by a motion of the court itself.


09-27 11:47: Germany's Roesler says leveraging EFSF is "off the table"


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:45 | 1713985 rubyruffruff
rubyruffruff's picture

steve liesman ain't no walter the news or make it up......cnbc.....a fine tradition of getting things wrong for 2 decades


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:49 | 1713987 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

If you flick through at certain intervals this makes interesting viewing of history repeating itself in germany, especially as many of the original production team were executed.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:40 | 1714044 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...well timed post, very ...prophetic. It is ''ironic'' that demonstrative slaughter of ones own (human/Christ) people, as a part of the Satanic ritual claim of dominion, produces end results such as an institution like the U.N. or buildings like the WTC or even an Antichrist New Secular Order. Interesting how even the country of Israel and these Middle East countries are risen through (usual suspect bankers) slaughter. FDR, 32 Degree Masonic Antichrist freak puts an occult pyramid on the Fiat currency and the slaughter of labor continued upto this point, where Germany is to slaughter the PIIGS. Lol. How very strange, and obviously ''twisted''. Lol. Chairsatan and Hitler working together, what a horror show. Those occult boys and their Knights of the Secret Circle (demonic consults) sure know how to ''map'' out the timing of the slaughter to the point within the gate of ''their'' fallen star(s).!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:50 | 1713989 Fips_OnTheSpot
Fips_OnTheSpot's picture

Wont matter. SPD+Greens already signalled "GO" for EFSF expansion -> majority for sure.


Just if the Gov (CDU+CSU+FDP) is not reaching its own majority, the opposition will demand re-elections (wont change a thing, but will surely hammer the DAX)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:27 | 1714017 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

+1 The passage of EFSF expansion on Sept 29 is almost a certainty. Just like the Greek austerity package, the EFSF is sure to pass the Bundestag

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:51 | 1713990 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

go germany fucke em, fuck em all to hell.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:51 | 1713991 hambone
hambone's picture


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 03:56 | 1713995 Fips_OnTheSpot
Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:04 | 1714005 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

...through the Looking Glass , Alice and we all go

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:18 | 1714012 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

If a political party wants to to be sure that they will not get re-elected or never get elected in Germany to be in governemt then you just have to do the following:

Issue Euro bonds or take any other measure which would trigger heavy inflation or undermine money stability in a serious way.

The Germans might be stupid in some way but not when it comes to money matters. They know it all have seen it all.

A person in Leipzig which lived up to be a 100 years old has seen at least 5 currency catastrophies. To say a currency completely disappering and be replaced by a new one. This includes hyperinflation, black markets, Two great wars, two tyrannies.

For example the Germans know that cigarettes are a not so bad currency too. There are never to many cigarettes in circulation. Just always a bit more than what is actually needed. Cigarettes used to be a very stable currency in Germany for 4 or five years.

So the Germany as a whole maybe ignorants as far as the stock markets etc is concerned. But in currency matters the whole nation knows what the bell is ringing.



Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:23 | 1714015 yabs
yabs's picture

so how come this has not filtered down tothe computers as the indexes are still roaring ahead

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:37 | 1714022 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Because in the end they know that it will be crammed through whatever the cost, like TARP in 2008 and Obamacare in 2009 here in the U.S. 

The people don't have a say, and if they do, only after the fact, after massive damage has been done.

German people, prepare to be outraged such as you have not been in decades.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:37 | 1714021 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

....the maket is going up because Wall St knew the FOMC outcome before it was announced...and they are long. They bought all the way down, and are still buying. They will  march this thing higher until the shorts reluctantly take that stock off their hands at levels higher that which they were acquired. After distributing their stock, they let go short and a small crash happens. Wash, rinse repeat. It's all planned weeks in advance. That's how the game is's a small club, and most of us are aren't in it.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:40 | 1714024 Poor Grogman
Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:47 | 1714026 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

How come one clown from CNBC can move the markets?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:55 | 1714028 yabs
yabs's picture


but how can this plan of more debt possibly work?

i'm sick of this pig show

Just let it collapse and then we can rebuild

I was enjoying the red ink, I cannot take the torture of more nauseating rallies an d tgalk of green shoots

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:58 | 1714030 37FullHedge
37FullHedge's picture

Enron now Euron

This denial seals it if history repeats itself.

The things off late is bothering me big time.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 06:24 | 1714086 max2205
max2205's picture


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 04:58 | 1714032 bvrulez
bvrulez's picture

Hey Tyler, could you please write simple structured sentences that even germans understand without having to read it twice? :) Thanks for that! Ben

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:12 | 1714034 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:13 | 1714035 Element
Element's picture

Mish did a nice bit;


The public is going to insist this stops ... and to prevent it, TPTB must scare the shit out of them ... and present TARP as the preferred model ...

So now we will [AGAIN] see just how sick and f*cked these pseudo 'govts' are.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:21 | 1714037 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

(newsreader)..."hi Jenny, yes we have an update to our earlier bulletin regarding the LA explosions. Whilst Al Queda has been ruled out ....sorry, what's that Jenny?...oh, because no-one saw an airplane crash...anyway, an ex-CEO of Haliburton has just been on the wire  saying that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction might be involved. There are rumours of more terrorist attacks imminent. The markets are powering north on this news. What's that?...the presidents address to the nation? Well apparently, the sand-trap on the 18th is a real bitch, maybe in half an hour, all depends on his wedge play...back to you Jenny"

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:28 | 1714040 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

...on a serious note, I wish people would stop equating politicians with government. Politicians are NOT government. The oligarchal corporatists are government. Politicians are merely their policymakers. Ever heard the term "industrial policy"?...I rest my case.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:31 | 1714042 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

But these people are politicians. All politicians "make threats." But stroke their ego's, puff up their sense of self-importance, do it enough aaannndd they'll cave in and vote in favour, "because it makes sense," to them. To everybody else it's bullshit. But to some dumbshit politician who now think's he's a somebody, it makes perfect sense. (Especially if TPTB then "look after" the turncoat as a signal to other opposition politicians, who turn, that they too can expect to be "looked after!")

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:39 | 1714045 long_and_short
long_and_short's picture


I spoke to my buddy in early september upon his return from Austria where he was visiting famliy and friends, so essentially he was "among the people".

The citiznes were absolutley ballistic as to what is going on in Europe in bailing out the PIIGS.  To the point where they were pretty much foaming at the mouth whne the discussions came up.

No central fiscal set up, the less likely anything long term can be accomplished.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:42 | 1714046 Racer
Racer's picture

And more QE to the UK? Are they mad idiots in charge?

Food, fuel and all the things you need have soared in price, wages have stagnated if you can get a job and they want to do more of the same?

The people cannot protest any longer, they are herded and not listened to, the only thing left is revolution against the bankster leeches

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:55 | 1714053 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

(newsreader)..."what's that Jenny?...the station chiefs want a shot of me with that grassy knoll behind me? probs. I'll just...........(BANG!)

Jenny: "we seem to have lost Nigel. In other news, the Dow hit new post Bretton Woods highs today......"

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 05:55 | 1714054 DutchDude
DutchDude's picture

Here, in Holland, mandate among the people is loosing ground. The people in the stronger EU countries have had it with Europe. Despite the fact that Holland made a lot of money on the EU, the avarage Joe only sees the fact that they're only coughing it up for the southern part. Holland always kept by the rules 3%/60% and what do we get in return; pay up biatchez!

That, and the fact that our 'great leaders' lie about it, evade questions about it, think people are stupid by saying stupid shit like "we're getting all our money back plus interest", is now making the EU discussion spiralling out of controll. The minority coalition is about the break over Europa with good chance there will be a anti-europe coalition after elections according to recent polls.

good times good times.. glad i bought the F-ing dip last weekend. Screw €€€

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 06:15 | 1714070 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture
German Central Bank Opposed to Geitner's plan

The new Bundesbank president, Jens Weidmann, used to be one of Merkel's closest advisers. Now, he is one of her staunchest critics over the euro rescue. He is strictly opposed to the European Central Bank's policy of buying up bonds from debt-stricken countries -- and is winning a growing number of allies for his cause.

Nightmarish Idea

What Geithner and the Obama administration view as a particularly elegant solution to the euro crisis is a nightmarish idea to stability champions like Weidmann. Last week, he warned the German parliament's budget committee that "state financing through monetary policy" would become a permanent fixture if the solution were adopted.

Losing Patience

 It's no surprise that Europe's central bankers are gradually losing patience. They no longer want to play the role of cleaning up after incompetent European politicians, and they're looking for an opportunity to demonstrate their independence. This has only increased Weidmann's chances of recruiting supporters for his campaign.

Looking for Congratulations

During a five-minute outburst at a Sept. 8 press conference, Trichet made it clear how much the German opposition had gotten on his nerves. "We have delivered price stability ... impeccably, impeccably," he angrily said. "I would like very much to hear the congratulations for an institution which has delivered price stability in Germany over 13 years."

ECB violated EU prohibition against purchasing government securities.

But, ironically, instead of thanking him, the Germans even want to drag him to court on account of his bank's controversial purchases of the sovereign bonds of debt-ridden euro countries. Markus Kerber, a Berlin-based constitutional lawyer and financial expert, has filed a complaint at the General Court of the European Union in Luxembourg, hoping it will declare the purchases invalid and put a permanent halt to them.

In Kerber's view, by purchasing sovereign bonds, the ECB has violated a number of articles of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, including articles 123 and 125, which deal with economic policy. In his complaint, Kerber says that "both the implementation of the program for the securities markets and the suspension of the credit quality threshold when determining whether the sovereign bonds of Greece, Ireland and Portugal were eligible to be treated as collateral by the central bank" violated the prohibition against purchasing government securities.,1518,788352,00.html


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:02 | 1714144 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Looking for Congratulations

During a five-minute outburst at a Sept. 8 press conference, Trichet made it clear how much the German opposition had gotten on his nerves. "We have delivered price stability ... impeccably, impeccably," he angrily said. "I would like very much to hear the congratulations for an institution which has delivered price stability in Germany over 13 years."

That "price stability" started off, by a 40% devaluation all across the board. Remember? That's how you kickstarted germans hating the euro right from the start.

Blow me, trichet.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 07:05 | 1714156 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

So Leisman is manipulating the stock market on a day when the market was feared to circle the drain. Huh.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 09:28 | 1714599 holdbuysell
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Freedom and democracy for the people...but only until the situation gets serious and threatens the status quo.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!