This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

GM Channel Stuffing Soars To All Time High

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Did channel stuffing expert AOL quietly merge with a Government Motors without anyone's knowledge? Because making record amounts of cars only to have them amortize rapidly in showrooms must be some New Normal definition of a recovery.

Source: GM

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:54 | 2213019 Gubbmint Cheese
Gubbmint Cheese's picture

Vroom Vroom..

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213039 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Didn't they just report a 1.1% increase in sales? Always another side.

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:02 | 2213056 Gomie
Gomie's picture

Yes, a massive increase in sales! And I bet summer temps in the middle of winter had nothing to do with the sales increase either.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:05 | 2213070 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

That's a chart of how a government led recovery looks like.  A complete and utter failure.  Wouldn't want the market to decide, now would we?  Better to force a recovery.... LOL.

My take on this is that the Gov't genuinely knows the homeless have to live somewhere and are preparing accordingly.

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:06 | 2213077 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Reminds me of Hitler and Mercedes Benz. 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:09 | 2213087 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture


K, here's yer conspiracy theory of the day......

EMP is most effective if the cars are running at detonation.  If still, not so much. Gooberment stages red flag EMP at peak US rush hour, call it 6 pm EST, bricking the running cars.  And lots else.

No one dies, GM-stuffed cars ready and waiting, Iran gets the blame, massive rebuild of certain infrastructure, nation "comes together in crisis," war to ensure a booming economy.

Yeah, lotsa holes, but it sure was fun.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:20 | 2213126 drink or die
drink or die's picture

Cars can take a bolt of lightning while running and be ok (example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZxgYNnkBd0 ).  No one has ever proved that an EMP would stop cars (in fact, recent research shows the opposite).  Your theory sucks.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:32 | 2213165 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

We had a power transformer blow on the lamp post in Los Angeles and it killed every modern car for 200 feet , EMP they dont like it . Lighting is NOT EMP it is an electric discharge.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:30 | 2213170 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

Hey dumbass!  First off, I was just having fun, but hey, there's more!!!  

Lightning is in NO WAY RELATED TO AN EMP, so go back to school.  Second, you're completely misinformed about it's effect, and since I'm just about to leave on a trip and have little time to entertain fools, at least here's this for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Aj54FcI7_dE

Have a great weekend!!!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:39 | 2213202 drink or die
drink or die's picture

EM energy decreases extremely rapidly from it's source.  Notice how the cameras etc were still working in that video?  A nuke going off miles in the atmosphere will for sure fuck the power grid up (because of the transmission lines hundreds of miles long that will induce current), but its highly doubtful that it will mess cars up.

 

The reason I mention lightning is that your car is a metal shell that (semi) protects internal circuits from damage.  Of course an EMP has more high-frequency components that can penetrate further into your car, but unless you are extremely close to the source you should be ok.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:47 | 2213519 EBR MOD 0
EBR MOD 0's picture

while on lightning, most power stations have very large lighting rods pointed, where you may ask, towards the sky near the transmission lines. Those lines in the grids are capable of handling a direct lightning hit and disperse out through the transmission lines. You might see a blink in your lights if close enough. Been there seen it a number of times at a station. Now as far as an thermo-nuke EMP, dunno about that one. But if lightning actually hits a generating station structure, it can fry it to the point of down for a lot of repairs. Been there seen that one too.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:27 | 2213158 Ahwooga
Ahwooga's picture

Apparently most people here dont recognise sarcasm without the obligatory /sarc

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:30 | 2213759 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Thats a mighty big Faraday box you're talking about.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:10 | 2213089 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

In Soviet Amerika, car buys YOU!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:44 | 2213242 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

In Soviet Amerika, man on radio listen to YOU!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:33 | 2213770 knukles
knukles's picture

That's creepy....

 

Especially since the folks at OnStar can proactively tune into your conversations without you....
Yes.
Check it out....

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:13 | 2213106 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

That's a chart of how a government led recovery looks like....

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.  That "channel stuffing" chart is totally irrelevant.  The sales figures the GM reported today are sales to customers, NOT GM sales to dealers, or GM "stuffing" dealers with inventory.  The reason for the increase in inventory is due to huge expectations for Spring sales.  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:22 | 2213133 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Must be QUITE a spring, considering they've been building up inventory for 3 years in anticipation of this event!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:26 | 2213149 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Your comment makes no sense.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:27 | 2213157 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Step back from the mirror, Max.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:36 | 2213201 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Of course it doesn't. Generally speaking, something becomes harder to understand, when your paycheque depends on you not understanding it.

See the inventory graph? It's been on the incline for 3 years straight. But, apparently, it's because we'll have a blowout spring.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:42 | 2213218 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

It still makes no sense.  The reason the inventory levels are increasing is because sales are increasing and GM is making more cars to compensate.  This has been the trend ever since they emerged from bankruptcy. 

Your post is truly senseless. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:47 | 2213257 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

must be why the're so profitable!

they can always keep dumping them in china!

GM: "If we build it, it might sell"2

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:48 | 2213264 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

umm, how much are you being paid to post illogical statements on teh interwebz?

You are saying that GM has been increasing sales for three years? tis funneh troll.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:01 | 2213315 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

GM total sales:

2009   2,084,492

2010   2,215,227

2011   2,503,820

It's been increasing EVERY YEAR since bankruptcy.  Of course, you probably wouldn't know that because you're focusing on something utterly irrelevant like "channel stuffing."

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:31 | 2213460 Mission Stupid
Mission Stupid's picture

Using your numbers and the chart above it appears that YoY GM sales growth is due to channel stuffing.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:45 | 2213514 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

*LOL*

That's because you do not understand how GM reports sales, and you're focusing on a red herring for your information.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:50 | 2213527 Mission Stupid
Mission Stupid's picture

While this is true you did not offer any evidence to refute my observation.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:14 | 2213668 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

WHAT???

I've got provable commentary and facts posted all over this thread. You want me to wrap a red bow on it and serve it to you?  Feel free to research anything I've said and prove it wrong. You CAN'T.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:54 | 2213895 jcaz
jcaz's picture

You might want to get out of your Mothers basement for a bit and go drive by ANY GM dealership-  their lots are overflowiing, they're literally parking cars in rented lots away from their dealerships;

But hey, don't let physical facts get in the way of your pseudo-intellectual diatribe....

And good luck to you in life if you really believe GM's sales numbers- silly boy, Max.....

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 20:39 | 2218695 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

Obviously you do not either.  Look at footnote 1 of the audited financial statements in their most recent 10K

Revenue Recognition

Automotive

"Automotive sales and revenue are primarily composed of revenue generated from the sale of vehicles. Vehicle sales are recorded when title and risks and rewards of ownership have passed, which is generally when a vehicle is released to the carrier responsible for transporting it to a dealer and when collectability is reasonably assured."
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 01:29 | 2219187 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Revenue recognition is something entirely different.  

That has NOTHING to do with the industry-agreed upon sales figures which are released on the 1st of each month.

The numbers released to the press on the 1st of each month are sales to end-customers.  This is a universal agreement among EVERY manufacturer - they only post deliveries to actual customers for the sake of fair comparisons.  If some manufacturers posted deliveries to end-customers while others posted the number of cars loaded onto transport trucks while others posted cars rolled off the assembly line, there would never be a fair comparison. So all manufactures agreed to post "deliveries to end-customers" on the 1st of each month.     

What GM does with their books and how the recognize revenue is an entirely different story. 

For proof of this, just read their press release from last month:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/u...

It clearly says, "General Motors dealers in the United States reported 178,896 total sales in January...."

It does NOT say, General Motors delivered 178,896 cars to dealers.....

It does NOT say, General Motor's dealers purchased 178,896 cars from GM factories....

It clearly states that these were cars sold to customers by dealers.  

Furthermore, in the footnotes of monthly sales, it will always give the number of "selling days" which excludes Sundays and sometimes will include an extra day like February 29th of this year.  This, again, proves that we are talking about dealership sales.  Those transport trucks and factories run 365 days a year, except when some are shut down like the Volt factory for 5 weeks in the coming days.  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:58 | 2213290 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Haha! Look up the year to date sales for GM. -2.2%. Yeah, they need to increase the dealer inventory by 10%! Smart move with gas prices spiking! Everyone is looking to buy right before a possible deflationary collapse!

The numbers are interesting. YTD sales of Lambos up 100%. The rich get richer.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:54 | 2213540 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

No, your logic makes no sense.

Look Max... it's called INVENTORY... that means cars or good sitting ready to be purchased.  It's a stand alone number and is irrelevant to sales.  Once a car is sold it's not in INVENTORY any longer... sheeesh, fook me man.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:06 | 2213589 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

It's a constant churn, lady.  The inventory is always turning.  The big mega dealers often have a steady $10M - $20M in inventory and sell 300+ per month.  In the old days, some dealers were doing 700+/month. The fact that inventory levels are increasing and sales are aslo increasing only demonstrates that dealers are loading up in anticipation of bigger sales which is typical for the Spring and Summer.  If sales were DECREASING while inventories are increasing, it would tell a different story. 

Go back to the Hofbraushaus, fraulein.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:35 | 2214882 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Max:

"The inventory is always turning."

Sometimes turns fast, sometimes turns slow. 'course, once the channel is stuffed, then it is off of GM's books and onto the dealer's books, with the vig taking a bite out of each captive dealer (they do remember 2008/9 after all).  So unit sales might even go up for a skosh' but margins will come down at the dealers.

One could almost say "it's unsustainable!"

- Ned

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:59 | 2214960 FlyoverCountryS...
FlyoverCountrySchmuck's picture

Bullshit...

GM is running full-out, building cars no one wants buy, to pump up Obama's Manufacturing Index numbers. That's why GMAC/ALLY is forced to give loans to 450 Credit Score Credit Criminals to move the inventory. OH WAIT... MSNBC 'forgot' to tell you that part of the story, eh?

What good is Government owing a car company if it can't be used for election propaganda?

What the hell, it's not like OBAMA and his cronies actually have any of THIER money in the game. What's a few hundred billion in tax dollars, compared to THE GLORY OF THE MESSIAH OBAMA?

Nothing matters but maintaining the illusion until after the election. NOTHING...

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 19:36 | 2215056 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

There's nothing in your post that is accurate, particularly the notion that ALLY is "forced" to give loans to 450 credit scores.  ALLY is a prime bank that does virtually NO subprime loans and NO ONE forces them to lend outside of strict guidelines.  For you to say that NO ONE wants a GM vehicle is absurd.  They sold over 209,000 vehicles last month, which was 30,000 more than Ford in second place.  

You goons concoct extremely bizarre scenarios that are just flat-out false.  No wonder you guys are so pessimistic.  If I thought ALLY was forced to give 0% loans to 450 credit scores, I suppose I'd be a doomer goon too. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:45 | 2220163 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

ALLY is a prime bank that does virtually NO subprime loans and NO ONE forces them to lend outside of strict guidelines.

 

Wrong again! The below article is titled: Ally Financial bets on risky subprime car loans

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-allyfinancial-idUSTRE74U4FY...

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 17:07 | 2220212 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

No shit.  One of your Luddite cohorts already linked the exact some article a few posts below.

I already responded to it. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:31 | 2213176 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Must be QUITE a spring, considering they've been building up inventory for 3 years in anticipation of this event!

 

Which raises the question - what do they do with all the prior years' overhang.  Can I get a "new" 2010 Chevette if I dig through the pile?  Or do they send those to some graveyard or "fleet" somewhere?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:38 | 2213811 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I know someone who bought a Camaro at below cost and paid cash. The dealer was a little upset. Especially, since this guy predicted he'd end up buying the car for that price 6 months prior.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:38 | 2214887 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Or do they send those to some graveyard or "fleet" somewhere?"

Been to National, Hertz, other usual suspects recently?

- Ned

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:24 | 2213143 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

How about

GE “Forcing” Employees Into Chevy Volts; Opt Outs Won’t Be Compensated For Expenses

http://exposethemedia.com/2012/02/23/ge-forcing-employees-into-chevy-volts-opt-outs-of-volt-program-wont-be-compensated-for-expenses/

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:55 | 2213293 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 

are you here to see tyler?  L0L!!!

comrades,
we must support the bankstershipEnterpriZe
there is no love if you do not obey
our union started driving our own cars years ago
the fact that they were never this fuking shitty and styooopid = zzzzilch
we're getting them almost free and people still don't want them?
dammit!  this isn't funny, comrades!

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:27 | 2213156 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

 The reason for the increase in inventory is due to huge expectations for Spring sales.  

Ha ha ha ha ha

Is that what you're government-taught economics professer taught you?  Ha ha ha ha ha

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:45 | 2213513 Kayman
Kayman's picture

So... we can expect a further surge in inventory like last year ? 

Expections.... were unexpectedly wrong....

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 20:35 | 2218689 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

YOU ARE WRONG.  SEE PAGE 98 OF THEIR MOST RECENT 10K

Revenue Recognition
Automotive
Automotive sales and revenue are primarily composed of revenue generated from the sale of vehicles. Vehicle sales are recorded when title and risks and rewards of ownership have passed, which is generally when a vehicle is released to the carrier responsible for transporting it to a dealer and when collectability is reasonably assured. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=231169&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=a...
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 01:22 | 2219218 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

No.  I'm NOT wrong.

This is the second time you've posted this, and I answered it above. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:31 | 2213459 whoisjohngalt11
whoisjohngalt11's picture


My take on this is that the Gov't genuinely knows the homeless have to live somewhere and are preparing accordingly.

 i hear those Volts stay toasty..:-)

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:10 | 2213090 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Any conversations about the auto business in the US should be overwhelmingly bullish.  Even GM, arguably the worst of all the brands, is on pace for huge sales gains, despite the big increase in gas prices.  This year will most likely be the best since 2007 for every manufacturer. 

If you don't believe me, just Google the articles for yourself.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:27 | 2213155 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

GM giving sub-prime, unemployed people 0% 60-month loans for exploding cars that pinky-swear better gas mileage should not be construed as beneficial in any way.

I always suspected you had shit for brains. Recommending Google seals the deal.

https://duckduckgo.com/
https://ixquick.com/
https://www.startpage.com/

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:29 | 2213164 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

"sub-prime...people"  LOL

Good call-out, CM.  I was wondering how many junks Mr. Fischer was going to ring up before someone started to explain to him his shill ways.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:59 | 2213307 fuu
fuu's picture

We've been explaining his shill ways to him across his many user names for a while now.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:51 | 2213530 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I was only referring to the one post above.  He really tosses out some butes.  I was holding off, but it was tough (like the Seinfeld episode).

Carry on, Mr. pistol-toting-chimp, Sir.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:38 | 2213177 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

GM doesn't offer 0% to subprime customers.  The 0% is offered by ALLY, not AmeriCredit.  AmeriCredit loans generally start at 13%+.  Furthermore, no one that is unemployed can get a loan through AmeriCredit because they require proof of income on EVERY loan. 

When a customer takes out a 0% loan through ALLY, they are doing so in lieu of a rebate that is generally worth thousands.  That rebate is given to ALLY by the dealer to subsidize the 0% loan, so you really aren't saving SHIT.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:56 | 2213296 fuu
fuu's picture

"GM doesn't offer 0% to subprime customers.  The 0% is offered by ALLY,"

As you repeat ad nauseam in every GM thread over the last year in your many incarnations.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:42 | 2213505 earnulf
earnulf's picture

And Ally is a subsidary of who?

http://www.answers.com/topic/ally-bank-subsidiary-company

Right, GM doesn't offer.....but their subsidary does!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:56 | 2213542 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

You missed the point.  Yes, ALLY is a subsidiary. EVERYONE knows this. But it DOES NOT do subprime loans, and THAT was the point.

It's truly hilarious to see so many red arrows after my posts, yet I'm the ONLY ONE in this thread giving you the truth.  I can post verifiable, provable sales figues and still get junked for it. 

GIVE ME MY DOOMER KOOL-AID FORTHWITH!  THIS ECHO CHAMBER SHALL NOT BE COMPROMISED!

*LOL*

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:22 | 2213718 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

L0L!!!  that's just the point, you moronic shithead!

define "sales"

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:31 | 2214171 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

A sale is a delivery to the dealership.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:20 | 2214580 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

No it's not.

A sale, as reported by all manufacturers on the first of every month, is a delivery to a customer.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:43 | 2214684 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

we're not talking abt "all manufaturers", we're simply talking about GM

so, if this is true for GM and we define "customer" as "dealer", perhaps you may begin to see the point by the end of 2013, and the FED's ZIRP, douchenozzle!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:26 | 2213734 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Kill Yourself.

Ally Financial bets on risky subprime car loans - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-allyfinancial-idUSTRE74U4FY...

Ally Offers More Subprime, Used Car Loans - http://www.autoloandaily.com/ally-offers-more-subprime-used-car-loans-2962

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:11 | 2213989 Rusty.Shackleford
Rusty.Shackleford's picture

well done

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:36 | 2214150 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

ALLY is well known to be a prime lender, however, there's so much profit in subprime loans that they JUST started to put their toe in the subprime market.  Even the press releases you posted are from last summer when they were beginning to offer higher rates in select markets.  Prime loans have such low yields at 2% and 3% that many prime lenders are looking to subprime to increase profits.  So, yes, technically they have attempted to start a subprime program, but it is entirely INSIGNIFICANT to their book of loans and has only been active for 6 or 8 months.   

I should have been more specific to you redneck, doomer goons are are attempting to find any fault with anything I say, even if it means you MISS THE ENTIRE POINT.  GM and ALLY ARE NOT giving subprime, unemployed customers 0%.  0% is strictly through ALLy and it's strictly for prime customers, and ALLY is - with the rarest exceptions - a PRIME lender doing PRIME loans.  Lastly, the overwhelming majority of subprime loans are funneled to AmeriCredit which has very stringent lending parameters and is GM's primary subprime lender. 

So, in my post above, I should have said, "ALLY does NOT do subprime loans at 0% to subprime customers."  Because, OF COURSE, you GOONS would MISS THE ENTIRE POINT and catch me on a meaningless technicality.

And finally, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:55 | 2214381 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

UMADBRO? You have been exposed as the ignorant, insolent, shit-covered twat that you are. Create a(nother) new name and try again.

For anyone interested in a visual presentation of the preceding exchange, I offer this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwiJFpcGNgg

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:43 | 2214683 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

It's amazing how the readers at ZeroHedge are so vocal and proud of their quest to expose the truth, yet only if it fits into your doomer, cynical, bitter, mean-spirited, cult-like echo chamber full of redneck Luddites. 

Anyone who has a different message, anyone who posts FACTS which run counter to your cult-like beliefs are berated.  GET OUT OF OUR ECHO CHAMBER! 

I know you'd like to believe that GM is on the verge of failure again; I know you'd like to believe that all the middle class workers throughout the midwest on GM's payroll are going to get fired; I know you'd like to believe that all the retired union workers dependent on their pensions will get fucked over; I know you'd like to believe that Obama's rescue of the auto industry will be for nothing; I know you'd like to believe that all GM customers who buy their cars are subprime borrowers stealing loans at 0%; but the reality is that GM is actually increasing sales and increasing profits and doing better than anyone would have imagined.

Sorry to give you good news.  I know that's not welcomed around here.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi  

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:50 | 2214704 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

go away, max!

you're just trolling again and wasting everyone's time w/ yer "good news 4 doomers" passiveAggressive"Truth" trolling

write a story about how well GM is doing and ask tyler to publish it

see what he sez!  L0L!!!

and don't start quoting cramer

again

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:39 | 2214891 fuu
fuu's picture

<3

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:46 | 2213853 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

GM sales YTD -2.2%.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 10:17 | 2216582 TradingSIZE
TradingSIZE's picture

The lack of the rebate is ACTUALLY the interest on the supposed "0%" loan...c'mon they are never "giving" you anything with those offers. The price of the car is really the List - Cash Rebate.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:55 | 2213544 object_orient
object_orient's picture

A few 2012 models, and many 2011 models, qualify for 0% 72 month loans. Goes well with 40 year house mortgages.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:30 | 2213168 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

Any conversations about the auto business in the US should be overwhelmingly bullish. 

My friend, you have just outed yourself as a government propaganda troll, Obamaoist apologist, or leftist idiot.  Which is to say, an idiot just the same.

Please step to the back of the bus...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:42 | 2213226 gookempucky
gookempucky's picture

Just another form of strong arm tactics---do as we say or we will take your dealership away.

Channel stuffing is part of the agreement.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/v2-amended-gm-participation-agreement.pdf

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:52 | 2213275 fuu
fuu's picture

wtf ever RobotTrader.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:42 | 2213504 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Fuu, at least RobotTrader has something good to say. This troll is a complete idiot! Right FauxFisher?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:45 | 2213512 fuu
fuu's picture

They all sound the same to me.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 19:06 | 2214976 FlyoverCountryS...
FlyoverCountrySchmuck's picture

Uhhh... Yeah....

Got an experiment for you.

Start a lemonade stand, and extend credit for purchases to anyone with a 450 Credit Score. You're gonna book lotsa sales, but get PAID for very few of them. You won't care about that much, though, since the TREASURY is going to bail you out, if Obama wins reelection.

OT/ Do you shiver when you bleat "OH! Baa-a-a-a-a Ma!"

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:12 | 2213102 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

That might be a fair question if the channel stuffing was up a corresponding 1.1%. Try again.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:26 | 2213152 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

So with channel stuffing up some 7.69% doesn't factor in?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213043 Momauguin Joe
Momauguin Joe's picture

Booyah!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:55 | 2213024 stickyfingers
stickyfingers's picture

Looks like the bonus will be paid in lug nuts.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:56 | 2213030 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Coming Back up on 13000...Get the Shot glass.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:56 | 2213031 dime2962
dime2962's picture

but they said obama saved the american worker...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:48 | 2214924 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"They" did say that.  'course, it depends on what the definition of "American Worker" is, n'est ce pas?

- Ned

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:58 | 2213032 Conman
Conman's picture

Get ready for the 0% financing plus incentive advertising campaign. Bullish for cable providers and tv networks.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213044 surf0766
surf0766's picture

O down 0 percent , good credit , no credit,  no problem. Give me one that works. IE the trans wasn't built like crap !!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:01 | 2213048 HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

I am not getting a new car until the financing rate goes negative. That's right, they pay me to take their festering over engineered pieces of crap.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:57 | 2213298 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

A real world 8 percent inflation you already have a signifciantly negative rate......  Take it for 5 years, and its 20% or so off in inflation adjusted dollars........

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:58 | 2213302 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

A real world 8 percent inflation you already have a signifciantly negative rate......  Take it for 5 years, and its 20% or so off in inflation adjusted dollars........

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:23 | 2213137 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

There's got to be an upper limit of how much inventory can be foisted onto dealers. Anyone have any idea where the ceiling on that chart is?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:14 | 2213374 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I believe it's called parking lot square footage.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:49 | 2213524 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

My limit guess will be when dealers go out of business en masse and the cars can no longer be dumped on rental agencies or shipped to 3rd world countries.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:59 | 2213562 Kayman
Kayman's picture

 Citxmech

Anyone have any idea where the ceiling on that chart is?

If GM is floor planning their dealers, then the ceiling is unlimited until November.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:57 | 2213035 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Demand for new vehicles is just around the corner.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:50 | 2213268 Roy T
Roy T's picture

Like houses!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:11 | 2213363 Jena
Jena's picture

And Christmas!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213040 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Why shouldn't government motors inflate sales figures and production like dollars? Definitely bullish sarc

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213041 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

That's ok, the channel pays for them using taxpayer money.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:59 | 2213042 nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

I just bought a Suburban last week in New Jersey and there were not many in inventory at the 5 dealerships I looked at.  A ton of tiny shit cars though.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:01 | 2213049 Momauguin Joe
Momauguin Joe's picture

It will make a nice sizable home some day.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:02 | 2213062 surf0766
surf0766's picture

With or without steering Wheels?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:22 | 2213132 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Suburbans have rudders to steer.  They can be located on the lower deck, next to the galley.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:00 | 2213051 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"To the moon Alice." - Ralph Kramden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbCv6b96OK0

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:01 | 2213052 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Obama's bailout worked!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:02 | 2213057 djsmps
djsmps's picture
Best February auto sales in years

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Higher gas prices did not scare consumers away from auto dealerships last month.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/01/news/companies/auto_sales_gas_prices/index.htm?source=cnn_bin

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:02 | 2213061 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

Thwee owning of a new veewicle is a baswic human wight!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:03 | 2213064 wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

i think the DNC owned media missed something  from the official obama ministry of truth....all directives will be read on the two minutes of hate each night on all channels...all is well and big brother is ready for another 4 million dollar vacation. madam obama is going about the country eating every god damn thing that aint nailed down and foodstamps are an economif policy...if you must disagree please report to the nearest RE EDUCATION CAMP and save our gooberming workers the stress...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:19 | 2213125 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

When you state 'i think', that's just a turn of phrase, right?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:04 | 2213071 non_anon
non_anon's picture

Debt Bro & Bite Me's green shoots

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:04 | 2213072 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

This is in perfect keeping with this Govt's modus operandi: Forcefully and painfully stuffing things where they shouldn't go...

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:09 | 2213088 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

I wike the swound of that sir!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:21 | 2213129 carguym14
carguym14's picture

Otherwise known as                       "BarneyFranked"

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:05 | 2213073 pleseus
pleseus's picture

 Chevy Tahoe's will be 75% off MSRP in 6 months. 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:18 | 2213385 The Chief
The Chief's picture

I hope so. I could use a new one!!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:11 | 2213993 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Doubtfully. Instead they'll be marked up to $65,000.....THEN 'marked down for a super sales event' to $45,000. The sheeple will line up around the block to get in on such an awesome deal ($20k right off the top!), all at 0% interest for 72-84 months. Even then they won't move enough units, so additional stuffing will be needed (lease the empty parking lot over by that no-longer-in-business grocery store across the boulevard for additional units in support of our greatest most awesomest sales event EVER!).

It's all about the monthly payment for boobus amerikanus. Make it so that they only need to sacrifice one or two extra meals a week per family member, and they'll drive off the lot with fresh new multi-year debt, 99% of the time.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:07 | 2213080 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Just like the North Koreans suspending uranium production, for Happy Meals!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:07 | 2213082 Every Third Word
Every Third Word's picture

Why bother anymore?

Everyone but the true fanatics, or the paid puppets at SeeNoBusinessConflicts! or BloomBucks, can see the true state of the economy. The pay day loan companies, even in 2000, showed an American population fundamentally overextended.

Who gives a rat's ass anymore? Really, its just the same junk over and over... I applaud ZH for producing this site as i am sure it's beyond monotonous now... Am I the only non-zombie who sees this?

It's shocking that we have public statement for even junk shell firms but we don't have a clue about where 70% of the consumer stands.

 

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:09 | 2213086 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

dup

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:11 | 2213099 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

Who needs such barbaric relic like car?

Everybody goes primal today!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:11 | 2213101 ivana
ivana's picture

GM will soon give their cars for free to chinese ... for reasons faaar behind  any economic theory - free cars are troian horse for chinese.

Like cost free loans and GS "assistance" for balance sheets to greeks was troian horse for EU

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:13 | 2213104 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Isn't this the "inventory build" all the bears have been whining about not happening? Anywho...overcapacity here is nothing compared to Europe and East Asia. I say "the big 50" global widget mfg's get's whittled down to a more unmanageable 20 or 30.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:13 | 2213108 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

OT: Protests in Spain gather pace. Krugman would make a note on the potential stimulative effect of tearing everything down and then building it again but...

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/02/29/inenglish/1330529886_488584.html

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:13 | 2213109 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Guys you don't actually have to sell cars now in order to sell cars, we are counting FUTURE SALES, FUTURE SALES will rise (because we say so).

Thats derivatives.... invest!

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:18 | 2213120 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

aol learned from gm who has been doing this stunt for decades....it is also the way the chinese measure gdp

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:18 | 2213121 Habyarimana
Habyarimana's picture

they're just waiting for delivery

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:18 | 2213122 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Since everyone's unemployed, there's plenty of room on the roads for more cars...maybe GM should start leasing the interstate shoulders to park the excess inventory.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:22 | 2213134 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

I wonder how many cars are actually bought 100% at the dealer?

I'll never be able to afford a car, or a loan for one (not that I want to take one; sick of being an indebted serf for inadequate tech).

That being said, I'm sure the rich people are loving this "recovery" we are having.  Cheap loans, cheap cars, and discounts everywhere on their luxury shit. 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:24 | 2213141 greggh99
greggh99's picture

Brent just went over $125 again.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:55 | 2213153 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Also, gold & silver gaining back the first of the four weeks they gave up in yesterday's ordered-pummeling.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:31 | 2213179 cygnetsong
cygnetsong's picture

Maybe the non-Obama voting dealers that were shut down didn't get such a raw deal after all, compared to those that were allowed to stay open.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:35 | 2213195 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

next acounting trick:

 

SUV's will now be counted as new homes.  

 

New headline.  New home construction skyrocket.

 

New homes sales skyrocket

 

Housing recovery is here.

of course SUVS will notbe considered in housing inventory because after all its a car. 2012 amerika has no time for consistent logic or rules.

See how easy that is.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:20 | 2213402 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

They can't be accounted for as homes in my neighborhood.  SUVs are too expensive to be homes here.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:44 | 2213244 turtle777
turtle777's picture

Useless graph and statistic. Dealer inventory is a function of sales. As sales go up, inventories go up.

In order to be able to compare past periods, one needs to look at how many *DAYS* of inventory (i.e. days of sales) the dealers hold.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:30 | 2213458 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

BS

Have you not heard of just in time manufacturing.

Your paraidm is obsolete.

That inventory is probably subsidised "Volts".s

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:58 | 2213561 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

I think that's turtle's point. If it is just in time, it looks like stuffing but is actually rising to meet demand presumably. And his paraidm may be obsolete, but his paradigm is just fine.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:39 | 2213802 turtle777
turtle777's picture

LOL, Winston, you're a fucking idiot. 

Just In Time NEVER refered to sales to end customers in the automotive industry.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 16:02 | 2213935 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

Maybe it should have. If you work for the auto industry you don't bring much credibility... bankruptor.

Why could't they have a just in time service? Selection of inventory on the lot. Choose your car get it in color/accesories that you want the next day?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 19:15 | 2215001 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

You just proved both mine and Tylers point.Arsehole.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 13:45 | 2213252 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

now the  crooked dealers are upside down on the note before the car is sold. LOL Think I run to Wally world for another gallon of ATF fluid for my leaky 2001. 246k and still strong. Starve the bitchez.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:00 | 2213314 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

It's time for obamas cash for clunkers2, pay people to create some demand!   Then don't pay them.    I haven't heard any followup on the dealers getting screwed in the cash for clunkers deal.  did they ever get paid?

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:25 | 2213432 jackinrichmond
jackinrichmond's picture

i wouldn't believe government stats even if they said they were lying.   they have lost all credibility.   government stats are nothing more than propaganda.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:28 | 2213451 RunningMan
RunningMan's picture

Need a longer time series to make sense of this. Specifically, we need to go back to 90s, and then normalize it to understand level of "stuffing". Someone above suggested days of inventory (Turtle, not sure why people junked him) which is a good start. Could also do relative to addressable population (which is likely to make look worse, since many still unemployed or now out of the work force - where to drive to?).

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:31 | 2213466 nugjuice
nugjuice's picture

To be fair, it would be more helpful if we could see this chart alongside the chart of monthly unit sales. If they have twice as many cars in the lot at the end of the month but are selling 3 times as many cars, this chart would be very misleading. I'm sure that's not the case, but it would be more helpful

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:34 | 2213476 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

GM is betting on the 'be-back' bus.

 

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 14:53 | 2213535 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

I appreciate that Zerohedge is presenting content not style, but they need more copyediting.  Inventory depreciates not amortizes.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:14 | 2213666 frostfan
frostfan's picture

Aren't there also less dealerships as a result of the bankruptcy?   That means those lots should be packed!!!!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:17 | 2213691 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Has anyone considered the fuel usage chart over the past 20 years. It's in a downward trend, and it's not because vehicles are getting better mileage (they aren't!), it's because people are driving less. Who needs a new car when yours is lasting longer because you're putting less wear and tear on it.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:31 | 2213767 earnulf
earnulf's picture

Don't know about chart to chart, but comparing GM Models in Dealer Inventory, the number has gone from 390K in Jan of 2010 to 619K in 2012, a 50% increase in dealer stock.   YTD sales in 09 were just over 2 million units while 11 sales were 2.5 million units or a 20% increase.    Of that 20% increase, it would appear that 40% of it is due to dealer stock (Increase of 500K units sold, increase of 200K in dealer inventory = 300 K actual increase.)

GM is apparently counting on rental sales to boost it's numbers.   Up until they stopped reporting the monthly fleet sales in August of 2011, GM was averaging 25% of sales as Fleet Sales which really should not be considered sales to the public.

As a result, if the fleet sales averaged 25% from 09-11, actual sales would have been around 1.5 million in 09 and 1.87 million in 2011 or an increase of only 370K units.    If dealer inventory rose during that same period by 200K, then actual sales to the public would have been an increase of only 170K units or less than 10% over the same two year period.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!