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GM Loses Over $49,000 On Every Chevy Volt

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Watching Phil LeBlow providing Ford with a reacharound this morning reminded us of total farce that is both the forest and the trees of the US auto industry. We have discussed the FUBAR channel-stuffing and the subprime-lending SNAFU but now, as Reuters reports, we see the ugly truth about GM's little baby "the Volt is over-engineered and over-priced". Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds.

...

Furthermore, there are some Americans paying just $5,050 to drive around for two years in a vehicle that cost as much as $89,000 to produce. And while the loss per vehicle will shrink as more are built and sold, GM is still years away from making money on the Volt, which will soon face new competitors from Ford, Honda and others.

...

The weak sales are forcing GM to idle the Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant that makes the Chevrolet Volt for four weeks from September 17, according to plant suppliers and union sources. It is the second time GM has had to call a Volt production halt this year.GM acknowledges the Volt continues to lose money, and suggests it might not reach break even until the next-generation model is launched in about three years. "It's true, we're not making money yet" on the Volt, said Doug Parks, GM's vice president of global product programs and the former Volt development chief, in an interview. The car "eventually will make money. As the volume comes up and we get into the Gen 2 car, we're going to turn (the losses) around," Parks said.

...

Estimates on the cost to build a Volt range from $76,000 to $88,000, according to four industry consultants contacted by Reuters with one concluding: "I don't see how General Motors will ever get its money back on that vehicle,"

...

The Obama administration, which engineered a $50-billion taxpayer rescue of GM from bankruptcy in 2009 and has provided more than $5 billion in subsidies for green-car development, praised the Volt as an example of the country's commitment to building more fuel-efficient cars.

...

As a reminder: presenting the Obama Volt

Chevy Volt - Building a Better Tomorrow from Mister Smith Media on Vimeo.

 

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Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:50 | 2778361 djsmps
djsmps's picture

Osama bin Laden is dead and ...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:51 | 2778369 bankonthebust
bankonthebust's picture

so is GM

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778387 Precious
Precious's picture

That's what happens to an auto industry when the decider in chief heads up the manufacturing politburo of the USSA.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:59 | 2778409 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Why is there an assumption that GM's goal is to make money?

Obummer will help find every possible way to bankrupt America!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:01 | 2778418 forexskin
forexskin's picture

gotta love GM logic-

loosing money on every sale, but sure to make it up on volume.

cue Ringo's Law.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:16 | 2778467 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Dear Government,

 

Please keep my Volt...and just send me a new Corvette.

 

Regards,

GetZee

 

P.S. a red one if it's not too much trouble.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:22 | 2778498 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Salvage...

 

Get Zee valuable Metals out of that cAR ...

{Theres probably more GOLD Grams in that car than in an Olympic GOLD Medal}

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:21 | 2778505 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Post of the day, gold.

I'll take triple black if it's not too much trouble.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:34 | 2778764 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Can’t you make a case that the Obamamobile Volt is an example of cost for electricity skyrocketing?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:29 | 2778971 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

 

 

Yeah!!...send me a Vet too...

so I can sell it and buy a good German built product.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 18:42 | 2780081 Element
Element's picture

When dumb deluded people run a crippled ineffiecent state-owned company that makes inappropriate products, and that state has also been systematically undermined by obsessive reactionary 'green' politics and uneconomic legislation and policy decree noise, then those companies are going go broke, in a spectacular way ... sorry, I meant to say ... those tax payers will go broke ... in a spectacular way.

As a far better run and organised private company, from much saner country, will take away their market share, their jobs, and the state's revenues, with great ease.

And so they should.

like, duh

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:17 | 2778484 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

JUNK...

 

They are all destined for the FAR-OFF China junk yards, to be scavenged for their METALS...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:54 | 2778616 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

They didn't lose that.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:03 | 2778425 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

"I don't see how General Motors will ever get its the American citizen's money back on that vehicle."

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:25 | 2778521 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Apparently GM didn't build these volts, therefor it cannot be responsible for the loss.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:09 | 2778442 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I don't see what the problem is. More debt equals more wealth.

We're just ROLLING in it.

<Just like my dog loves to roll around in his s**t.>

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:12 | 2778458 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"the Volt is over-engineered and over-priced"

sounds like the T-Bill

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:16 | 2778479 Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

...Or the euro.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:31 | 2778515 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

when you have the same engineers

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:14 | 2778903 Thamesford
Thamesford's picture

 

 

Ohm - my. Resistance is not so futile, apparently!

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:31 | 2778987 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

...or the S&P Index

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:18 | 2778490 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Nobody ever went broke buying T-Bills...........yet.

The "return" on those T-Bills will soon be reverse-engineered.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:55 | 2778620 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Over engineered my ass. Those batteries haven't been tested to anywhere close to what they should be. That car should be labelled experimental. You can't sell a car based on a wish, and wishing isn't going to make it so with those batteries.

Surprised there haven't been more problems but maybe that's the blessing of these sale levels.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:16 | 2778478 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

It's obviously Bush's fault.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:23 | 2779705 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Excellent post Pladizow.

It leads to my thought that the right is failing in their feeble attempt to fight socialism. And there is always the thought that the right isn't actually against socialism, they are only against the democrats in control of it.

It would seem to me if the republicans really realized what Obama was doing, the republicans would be up in arms much more.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:24 | 2778514 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

The Volt was on the books before Berri became their puppet ( puppet squared I guess, as he himself is a puppet ). To me that article is misleading however you have a confluence of political feces including:

 

  •  the volt originally as a political turd making it more appealing for the governent.
  •  the grotesque manner in which the loss of value has been passed on to the taxpayer (versus chrysler which was paying 14-20% interest).
  •  The way the E/V platform was a goal of the administration and the volt fit in perfectly.
  •  The failure of the E/V as a current central sales theme.

 

This is just another car on the crony capitalist fail train, albeit a prominent one.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:01 | 2778639 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Electric Ladaland

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:33 | 2778554 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

It's called fuhrerprinzip

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:00 | 2778414 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Don't worry about the losses.  GM will make it up in volume.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:14 | 2778471 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I feel the same way about vomit - Margaux Hemmingway

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:19 | 2778494 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Obscure +1

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:37 | 2778509 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

both proud and disturbed that you got that

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:50 | 2778609 markar
markar's picture

If there was any volume, rest assured they would offshore production to China.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:21 | 2778503 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

can we throw it out to see?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:29 | 2778540 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Hope not (GM being dead, again), I own one, and if they really cost that much to make, it's not obvious looking at the car and internals.  Of course, this is total BS, and probably includes all the NRE...if you don't know what that is, then you're not qualified to make a comment.

All the more reason to own one, actually, since "someone else" paid all that, and all I  had to pay was sticker - plus buy some solar panels so I drive for free from now on (or at least for the 8 year full warranty).

Got the tax break too, bitchez.  If this were a trade (and of course, it is) my making it would make me a hero here except for all the ridiculous GM-hate.

In fact, I traded in a Camaro (2010, SS) for it, which I bought by shorting GM *after* they announced a probable bankruptcy.  Thanks UAW!  (who else would have been stupid enough to be long then?).

Calling it an Obama car is just stupid lack of fact checking.  The concept was shown in 2006, and that was after a lot of development had been done...

what losers with an agenda your writers are.  Fuck, there's enough truth that's bad enough without faking it.  And...what payoff did we get for the same subsidies we gave Chrysler - where's their electric?  Why don't  we hate them?

Bunch of morons - bitchez.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:33 | 2778553 malikai
malikai's picture

I think you made a great trade. Don't mind the haters. If I was there and in the market for a car, I'd have taken one of those subsidymobiles for a try too. After all, you just got some of your tax money back.

It is a shitty deal for the country, though. You can't ignore that fact.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:55 | 2778621 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

DC it is good that the UAW can find some tempory work for its laid off members. By the way how many of your fellow brothers are qualified to be sock puppets.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:01 | 2778640 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I'd still buy the tried and proven Prius for half the $$, and buy PMs with the difference.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:10 | 2778676 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

I agree!  I paid net 40k for a car worth 80k or more given the tech, tooling, etc.

 

Also, people are expecting tooling and R&D costs to be recouped in 1 year?  What kind of moron expects that?  If you look at the breakdown the Volt actually costs around $24k to build excluding the sunk costs (most of which got stuck on Old GM in the bankrupcy, so on paper Volt is actually profitable at 40k).

 

Plus, getting that sweet 7.5k subsidy was nice, as usually the Feds fuck me for about $15-20k per year.  Additionally, I pay at most 4 cents per mile for American power, and blended with cheap public charging it's more like 2 cents per mile.  So far, the Volt has exceeded my expectations, except for the digital OnStar stuff.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:06 | 2778880 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

OnStar just helps the government track you better.  When more people start driving electric cars the government is not going to like all of the monies collected via gasoline tax.  They will use the On Star to know how many miles you drove and more importantly where so they can tax you and then divvy up the tax based on which jurisdictions you were driving in.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:13 | 2779405 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The onstar humans are ok, the rest kinda sucks.  I get google maps downloaded into the onstar on board and that works well.  The voice recog on the built in phone kinda stinks, but I'm used to voice recog stinking and know how to make all the things it's supposed to recognize sound unique enough to make it work.  You'd think that the ford Sync which everyone hated (but at least they've done upgrades on) would have attracted more hate here, but...this isn't rational, it's ZeroHedge.

You'd think on a site that understands flow vs amount when it's the fed, they'd understand that channel stuffing (which is done in all industries that use distributers) has kind of a limit - the amount of parking lot that exists to stuff.  And they're not real full now.

Fact checking, just in case you didn't know, Tyler, includes more than just looking at what other so-called journalists print. It's a damn echo chamber, not journalism.

Most of these "wizards" evidendly haven't tried to actually run a business that sells something that mainly sells in springime, with union workers (or any other kind) who expect year-round jobs.  And plants that cost money to sit there when no operating - especially if you build them so big they can make the peak sales month volume in that month.  That's just not how it's done.

I suspect most here are either infantile (the ones that aren't know I'm not talking about them) or only paper pushing screwballs who never have to make anything real, or run an actual payroll.

I love my Volt, I like the way GM compensated for the pretty high sales price by loading it up with all the luxury features that don't cost them much to add, but usually are expensive options in the showroom.  It's a neat car.  The most agile in city driving I've ever experienced, and it gets my rural mountain driving done fine too.  I've spent zero on power co electrticity, since I'm off the grid anyhow, and used 18.5 gallong in 5987 miles, some of that on purpose to make sure I break in the ICE.

But, if people here want bad deals from other manufacturers, or lousy looking, noisy, cheap, bad handling, econobox cars, let'em buy a prius - they are what they are, some people like them.  They get good mileage too.  Just not as good.

Must really piss off the GM haters that this is such a leapfrog tech that everyone else has hired away their engineering team to make copies - from BMW to Mercedes, to VIA motors.

So, we can remind them when they buy one of them, who it's a copy from - the Volt.

There's a reason last months Volt sales were record - and 3 times the Leaf sales, and also more than the Prius for the same time in the market if you look back to their second year availability.

Cash talks, this ZH here's all bullshit, so I'm walkin'.

Junk away losers - do you think I give a half-shit?  Do you go collect likes like they meant something of value to anyone with an iq above room temp?  Fine for ya.  Drivel to me.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:59 | 2779578 patb
patb's picture

DCFusor,

 

I really, really like the Volt, it's interesting technology, but Here are my concerns with it.

1) The IC engine is overly integrated with the primary propulsion, I think that's a problem in the prius, too,  multi port transmissions and

extra clutches are just maintainance problems waiting to happen.

2) The Volt lacks an offboard takeout inverter mode.  If the Volt were designed to feed power to the grid or house, then it could serve to handle peak loads, and still let your Solar PV or Wind Turbine handle average loads.  

3) The price point is a little high, if you look at the Plug in Prius vs the Volt, you see, A line between Range, Cost that Volt, Prius plug in, Fiskar, are all exploring.

I bought a used 2010 Honda INsight because at the time my car was dying and I needed something then.  I love the Volt and can't wait to pick up one that's Second generation or buy one used.

 

I think the BS about GM losing $80K per Volt is just that.  The NRE, particularly the tooling and Battery engineering is Program costs, the key is are they hitting their sales numbers, and is the car generating Buzz and Halo.

 

When the Prius came out, Toyota was losing $10K/car and GM wasn't willing to lose $100Million investing into their Hybrid.

it was a "Big Mistake" according to Bob Lutz.  http://priuschat.com/threads/gm-not-making-hybrid-a-mistake-so-says-lutz...

 

Rick Wagoner says killing the EV1 was the biggest mistake of his career.  http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/31/business/fi-gm-cars31

 

Had GM kept up the EV1 and released a version with a small generator that would serve as a range extender, the car would have sold well. a 2 seater with decent performance, great aero and a gas augmented range of 200 miles, would have challenged the Prius

early off the blocks.

 

It will take a few years for the Volt to pay for it's investment, but, lots of technology struggles at first, and the Plug in Prius, Plug in Accord, Tesla S and Roadster, Fiskar Karma all argue that GM is right.

 

I am probably not a good volt target right now, my backyard is kind of small but, I think the Volt will prove to command it's niche much as the Prius is starting to become Toyotas biggest seller.

 

My Uncle is a big Detroit Exec and he said "Electric Cars aren't Selling", and I said "If you count Hybrids, Electrics are now the 3 biggest seller by platform. All a plug in Hybrid is a Hybrid with a bigger abttery and a small charger. All that's happening now is the

Range is increasing and the charger rates are picking up  

 

As Hybrids get bigger and Badder, the world will change.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 20:26 | 2780354 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

"1) The IC engine is overly integrated with the primary propulsion, I think that's a problem in the prius, too,  multi port transmissions and

extra clutches are just maintainance problems waiting to happen."

 

Disagree.  The IC only kicks in when the battery is depleted, and operates either serially (at speeds below say 55mph) or in an efficient clutched-in mode at speeds 55mph and above.  The computers control when the clutches engage, and have total control over the motor/engine RPMs so theoretically they can do RPM matching and minimize wear when engaging.

 

"3) The price point is a little high, if you look at the Plug in Prius vs the Volt, you see, A line between Range, Cost that Volt, Prius plug in, Fiskar, are all exploring."

 

Early adopters get the shaft, and as a lot of haters whinge, the high price point is still too low to cover all of the R&D and tooling that got written off during the bankrupcy.  The "unique" electric powertrain and associated batteries add probably 10k to the final cost (though GM quotes a replacement battery currently at 3k assuming you turn in your current battery), and that will only come down as battery tech improves and R&D + tooling get amortized over a larger pool of hardware and electrified drivetrains gain economies of scale.

 

I doubt there will be a $30k EREV from GM that's a Volt, but in 5-10 years I could see the EREV platform available in a number of different existing lines as a $5-10k option, with the Volt being either a mini-brand or branching out with a number of models such as MPV/CUV and 2-seater Chevy equivalent ELR (perhaps Volt SS?).

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:59 | 2779579 patb
patb's picture

DCFusor,

 

I really, really like the Volt, it's interesting technology, but Here are my concerns with it.

1) The IC engine is overly integrated with the primary propulsion, I think that's a problem in the prius, too,  multi port transmissions and

extra clutches are just maintainance problems waiting to happen.

2) The Volt lacks an offboard takeout inverter mode.  If the Volt were designed to feed power to the grid or house, then it could serve to handle peak loads, and still let your Solar PV or Wind Turbine handle average loads.  

3) The price point is a little high, if you look at the Plug in Prius vs the Volt, you see, A line between Range, Cost that Volt, Prius plug in, Fiskar, are all exploring.

I bought a used 2010 Honda INsight because at the time my car was dying and I needed something then.  I love the Volt and can't wait to pick up one that's Second generation or buy one used.

 

I think the BS about GM losing $80K per Volt is just that.  The NRE, particularly the tooling and Battery engineering is Program costs, the key is are they hitting their sales numbers, and is the car generating Buzz and Halo.

 

When the Prius came out, Toyota was losing $10K/car and GM wasn't willing to lose $100Million investing into their Hybrid.

it was a "Big Mistake" according to Bob Lutz.  http://priuschat.com/threads/gm-not-making-hybrid-a-mistake-so-says-lutz...

 

Rick Wagoner says killing the EV1 was the biggest mistake of his career.  http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/31/business/fi-gm-cars31

 

Had GM kept up the EV1 and released a version with a small generator that would serve as a range extender, the car would have sold well. a 2 seater with decent performance, great aero and a gas augmented range of 200 miles, would have challenged the Prius

early off the blocks.

 

It will take a few years for the Volt to pay for it's investment, but, lots of technology struggles at first, and the Plug in Prius, Plug in Accord, Tesla S and Roadster, Fiskar Karma all argue that GM is right.

 

I am probably not a good volt target right now, my backyard is kind of small but, I think the Volt will prove to command it's niche much as the Prius is starting to become Toyotas biggest seller.

 

My Uncle is a big Detroit Exec and he said "Electric Cars aren't Selling", and I said "If you count Hybrids, Electrics are now the 3 biggest seller by platform. All a plug in Hybrid is a Hybrid with a bigger abttery and a small charger. All that's happening now is the

Range is increasing and the charger rates are picking up  

 

As Hybrids get bigger and Badder, the world will change.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:04 | 2778870 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Even if the car was a concept shown in 2006, it would have never made it to production if GM wasn't bailed out by the gooberment.  Also, taking a car from concept to full production requires ample amounts of time and money.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:01 | 2779593 patb
patb's picture

shit happens, get over it.

BTW, the Feds bailed out Chrysler Twice, Lockheed in the 70's, 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailout

and lots of other companies

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 18:24 | 2780037 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

No reason to be upset about the bank bailouts with taxpayer money or any of their 0% Fed loans either then I guess.  ZH or any other non-propagandist website should just fold, because you know, shit happens. 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:10 | 2778895 dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

DCFuson -

Don't you know these posters hate facts even more than science.  An experimental electric car - Oh my God, must be the fault of that facist, socialist, nazi, communist Obama.  

Has anyone ever heard of research and development.  In the world of new experiments, failure is typically the end result.    VOLT is relatively new hybrid concept and it is doubtful that it will ever be profitable.  All electric cars are going to have issues until there is a breakthrough in battery/energy storage.  Guess there should never be any R&D again.  Let's skip the Middle Ages and go right Back to the Dark Ages.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:31 | 2779479 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The drawbacks and problems with battery operated anything have been known for 130

years.An enormous ammount of money has been spent over that time on R & D.

The same flaws remain in spite of it.

Banging your head against a brick wall rarely topples it.

Its not different this time.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:02 | 2779604 patb
patb's picture

It's all a matter of price point.

Battery $/KWH are falling steadily.

Motor $/KW are rising.

It's all in the data.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:24 | 2778950 smiler03
smiler03's picture

 "all I  had to pay was sticker - plus buy some solar panels so I drive for free from now on "

 

So that's analagous to buying a car and buying the fuel and saying "I drive for free" ?????

Econ 101?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:17 | 2779423 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I still have to replace tires, and no it's not, I use the excess power from the solar system to run my R&D (nuclear fusion) lab too, and other stuff.  I get a break on that - if you're not a city dweller, and just build on raw land, often you can have your home built without bulding permits and PP taxes are for a barn instead of a home - payoff time is very short in that case.

I've used 18.5 gallons of gas total this year.  The additional solar which turned out to be in excess of what was needed to also run the Volt, was about 10k.  Econ 101 over the life of a car, anyone?

Or, oops, some of the panels in my system are already from the '70s and still putting out power.

That'd be econ 103 I guess.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:19 | 2779435 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

The fuel is sunlight, which is free.  The cost to harvest it (gather and deliver the fuel) is not.  However, those are sunk costs presumably, from which he's deriving additional value.

 

At a certain point, solar installations pay for themselves vs. paying a utility for the equivalent delivered power, and from that point on until the end of usable life of the panels the power you get is indeed free.  Perhaps DC has reached that point already.

 

Me, I'm strongly considering a grid-tie system with battery backup after I close on my house, though I may lay in some water storage and rainwater gathering stuff (plus softening and filtering all water into the house, as I also have co-op and well on the property) to go with my year's dried food.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:06 | 2779621 patb
patb's picture

You can buy Poly Crystal Solar now from Canadian Solar for $1/Watt Retail,  Inverters, install take it up to $3/watt,

but that's not a bad payback, figure 5-10 years, less if you add the credits.

 

This is effectively a 10-20% ROI, for low risk.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:40 | 2779024 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Neither myself nor any of my other patriotic brethren will purchase a Volt nor did we participate in cash for clunkers.  Everyone who does/did so facilitates the abuse of our constitution by an unscrupulous and fascist government.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:18 | 2779429 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

And everyone who doesn't is paying the middle east money to buy weapons to kill us with, asshole.

My car was made in America, by americans, and the fuel comes from here too.  Eat shit or work it all out a little better.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:21 | 2779445 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

You do buy gas, right?  How about Chinese goods?

 

Do you think delaying the crash helps us or hurts us?

 

I believe the sooner the crash comes, the better, though hopefully not before I'm fully prep'd.  The sooner it comes, the less damage is done, as damage is compounded with interest.

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 14:41 | 2782631 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Disgusting parasitic SOB.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:07 | 2778881 Thamesford
Thamesford's picture

 

 

 

I'm not dead yet!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:07 | 2778883 Thamesford
Thamesford's picture

 

 

 

I'm not dead yet!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:59 | 2778380 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

how do you know O-Samma's dead ? oh -you saw it on the tee-vee.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:00 | 2778859 rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

How about a book by the preacher that gave that 45 minute ceremony before feeding OBL to the fish...

Any photographs?

Nah... that's not neccessary - and lock up that Doctor so he doesn;t say anything either.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:54 | 2778383 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

Guys, now I know the US taxpayer loses a ton per unit sold, but just think of all the savings we get due to lower CO2 emissions and higher MPG!!!

Plus, the spontaneous combustion is INCLUDED in the sticker price.  Can you say DEAL OF THE SUMMER?!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:14 | 2778465 Rainman
Rainman's picture

yes indeed....and think of all the underwater homes they burn down. I see win-win .

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:18 | 2778488 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"What's a fire and why does it, what's the word, burn?" - The Little Mermaid Agent

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:07 | 2778440 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

DC FUSION, hello? Where are you? 

Come tell us again how your chevy dolt is the best that we can do.

Seriously.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:22 | 2779447 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Go to a dealer and drive one and see for yourself.  You're in for a surprise.  People who own these like them so much they rival Apple Fanbois in their love for them, rational or not.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/index.php

(Try the what's new search)

http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=48

For my own alt-energy presence in the world.

Or check out /nuclear/fusion on my forums...

 

It's so the best we can do, everyone else has hired away the GM engineers that did it.  So when you smugly buy your Beemer that's electric - it's a copy, they got the main design engineer.

Via motors got Bob Lutz, the Volt project manager, who can't be described as "green" at all, he's an AGW denier...and a Republican.  When you only get your facts from a guy with a single agenda, which might be merely as simple as click baiting - you might as well just go get them from Faux news or something.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:46 | 2779310 bloostar
bloostar's picture

alive at the same time... until schrodinger's mechanic opens the hood.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:39 | 2779497 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

By the logic in that article, you build a restarant, and the first meal costs a million bucks.  Volt outsells the Leaf, the PIP, and any other BEV by quite a bit.

Just in case you care about any facts or stuff like that:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?16759-Why-can-t-we-admit-when-we...

 

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:51 | 2778367 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah, but they plan to make it up on volume.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:58 | 2778403 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

So they've adopted the Amazon Kindle Fire business model?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 23:57 | 2780764 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

They adopted the Fire part, anyway.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:59 | 2778408 docj
docj's picture

So freaking awesome that we bailed-out these guys, isn't it?

#WINNING

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:02 | 2778427 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Sorry Quintus.  Didn't see your comment before I fired off mine.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:51 | 2778368 malikai
malikai's picture

No worries. Obambi will me sending the check as soon as he's reelected.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:19 | 2778497 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

GM's volume will pick up when Barry introduces the zero-down, 30-year car loan via the FHA clone...the FAA--Federal Auto Administration.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:20 | 2778711 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

No GMs volume will pick up when government says that you are mandated to buy a volt just like they did with healthcare.

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 01:38 | 2780866 James
James's picture

Seems their is some on the Right that have the antidote for the Volt.

They are starting a car co.

Their first model is called the "Revolt"

It has 12 cylinders

600 cubic inch displacement

Two Holley 750 cfm double-pumper carbs.

No seat belts.

And a ashtray!

 

 

 

 

disclaimer-I got this from another sites comment section.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:53 | 2778373 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Where is the recall on the 2012 camaro torque converters and trans being bad ??????????????????????

Not before this election

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:00 | 2778386 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

anybody that buys a US muscle car/baby boomer penis hardener deserves to get ripped off.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:07 | 2778428 surf0766
surf0766's picture

I am not a baby boomer.

Wrong on both accords. It matches the 69' pace car we have in the family.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:09 | 2778444 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

congrats on your investment- in 12 years it will be melted down into scrap and made into more eventual scrap. I'll drive my 2001 Camry another 165K miles-try that with your GM product.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:10 | 2778451 surf0766
surf0766's picture

2012  - 1969 =   43

 

Piss off

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:13 | 2778462 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

from my experience guys that are into cars are one-dimensional spazzes-thanks for reinforcing my opinion.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:15 | 2778470 surf0766
surf0766's picture

You are so funny. Want some mini pizzas?

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:25 | 2778518 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

actually guys that ride HDs(another govt. bailout-baby) are bigger spazzes- so take some solace in that

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:26 | 2778522 surf0766
surf0766's picture

.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:24 | 2779452 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Have done, on two buicks and one olds.  Well over 300k miles, before I got well off enough to not need to drive an out of date car anymore.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:10 | 2779179 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

and penis hardeners are a bad thing? Tell me it isn't so.

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 01:49 | 2780873 James
James's picture

Hey otto skorzeny-Are'nt you the guy who murdered Nicholas Tesla?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:53 | 2778377 djcando
djcando's picture

TOTUS should be driving one back to Chicago

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:24 | 2779453 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

This I can agree with - they're not bullet proof.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:53 | 2778378 EndTheMedia
EndTheMedia's picture

The Obama Volt.   Forward!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:55 | 2778389 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

The Obama Volt - "Spontaneous combustion is GUARANTEED or your money back...Well not really."

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:54 | 2778382 optimator
optimator's picture

I wonder what the old Soviet Union lost on each Lada, not that they built than many.  Perhaps GM should have licence built the Trabant, they'd a done better.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778385 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

"As GM goes, so goes the nation."

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778399 optimator
optimator's picture

See the USA in your Chevrolet.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:01 | 2778420 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Sheeeeeeiiiittttt.

We lost this motherfucker a lonnggg time ago.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:21 | 2778502 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

One word that will make you feel better: Geo Metro.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:55 | 2778388 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I can't wait for Obama to save the rest of our industries..............

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778391 Zen Bernanke
Zen Bernanke's picture

this is another example of how short sighted special interests and their bitches in the federal gov't are screwing up yet another american company.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778394 halcyon
halcyon's picture

But it saves the world!

:)

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:57 | 2778625 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Or at least the UAW bosses.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778396 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

the Volt has a short circuit

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778398 gggunchi
gggunchi's picture

I know I said it once today, but the Green Movment can go rake-fuck themselves. 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:27 | 2779459 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

For me, this has zero to do with green.  It has to do with not having to work to pay a power bill, or send money and troops to people who hate us.  Yeah, I live in a nature preserve too, to have room for my shooting ranges and some frigging privacy - you don't like what I do, get off my lawn and you'll not be able to see it anymore.  Green comes along for the ride, free - then I show them the guns and gold and....

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:56 | 2778400 saturn
saturn's picture

Another great achievment of the Debt-O-Brother totally worth re-electing.. Time to put foot-pedals in it and sell it still as ecological with a discount.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:08 | 2778402 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Good for the gubbermint for keeping the losses so low.

I was expecting maybe $75,000 loss per vehicle  so this is good news to me.

I'm so proud, can I send my taxes in early or maybe pay them twice?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:12 | 2778455 malikai
malikai's picture

You can pay mine too while you're at it.

Thanks.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:16 | 2778481 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

lol, I'm looking to move out of this country.

If Obama is re-elected I will close down my business, layoff my workers, and be gone.

In case you're wondering...New Zealand.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:22 | 2778508 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I used to want to go to NZ. Had the paper work filled out in 2004. Have you been paying attention to politics there?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:29 | 2778528 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Yes, I have....closely.

I can say the only political establishment that can compare to the depths of moral turpitude as the U.S are areas in Europe.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:05 | 2779161 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Would it not be kinder to sell to or give your employees the business so that they can stay in employment?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:26 | 2778525 malikai
malikai's picture

I've been gradually moving toward the same goal, myself. Left the states in 05. Hoping to be in NZ in a couple years' time.

Don't forget to bring a sheepdog.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:31 | 2778549 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

ha/

...Who is John Galt?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:34 | 2778556 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Surfers Without Borders

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:01 | 2778638 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Bob next we will hear Biden-dork crow about how they reduced the loss from $75,000 to 49,000 making a cool $26,000 profit per car for the American Taxpayer. The sad part is if he indeed did say that over 50% of public would believe it.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:59 | 2778405 Badabing
Badabing's picture

The number one selling car in China is a GM minivan. Is the American taxpayer footing the bill?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:02 | 2778424 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I think it says alot about a society(China) that Buick is a coveted luxury vehicle

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:29 | 2778541 malikai
malikai's picture

Hardly. Coveted luxury vehicle in China = Beamer/Merc.

Buick is "luxury" when you compare it to the domestic makes, however.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:59 | 2778412 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Where is DCfuser to set us straight on the Volt?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:06 | 2778437 adr
adr's picture

He didn't like having the real sub 30mpg gasoline average of the Volt thrown in his face.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:29 | 2778542 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

My 05 Focus with 230K miles on it gets better milage, of course Mazda makes the engine.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:15 | 2778672 Overfed
Overfed's picture

My bud had an '86 Tempo, 2.3L 5spd., that got an easy 38mpg on the freeway. Bought it for $300.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:29 | 2779467 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I get right around 40 mpg, when I use the engine, which is rarely.  The round trip to the nearest beer/munchie store is only 27 miles out here in the boonies, which I make driving like a wild man even in winter with the heat blasting with battery left over.  I only use enough gasoline to make sure the engine stays oiled up.  That nets me at this instant, around 182 mpg, since last Oct when I picked up the car.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:11 | 2779644 patb
patb's picture

80% of all trips are under 40 Miles, if you are diligent about plugging in, you will rarely burn gas.

I'm in the DC area and know a few volt owners, they are pretty conssitently seeing effective 300-500 MPG.

Now sure, drive to CT, it burns gas on the highway at 30 MPG, but, spend a lot of time in town, you may well

never burn a tank out.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:14 | 2778473 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Is it DCfuser or DCfusion?

No matter, I'm sure he's copy/pasting something from the SF Chronicle to defend his purchase.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:30 | 2779470 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Fuck you, I write my own copy, thanks, and it gets published too - and not at vanity press, but for money.  SF can go screw itself - oh, wait.....that IS what they do there, isn't it.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:30 | 2778544 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

He still trying to figure out how to justify spending $40,000 on a $17,000 Chevy Cruze...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:31 | 2779480 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I drove a Cruze.  Nice for an econobox.  Sucks for a daily driver, since 0-5 mph takes 3 carlengths.  Then it takes off like a rocket, but if those 3 carlengths are turning across high speed traffic, you're going to die.  They are noisy and cheap, like all other econoboxes.  Nice if that's what you like.  Not if you want some luxury, handling, quiet, true economy....

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:00 | 2778413 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

put a Solyndra solar panel on each Volt roof

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:00 | 2778416 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

And it must be union workers that are killing Best Buy too..  the economy is great, why else could they be failing?

 

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:01 | 2778417 Jeremy Roenick
Jeremy Roenick's picture

I don't know what everybody's problem is with this....  This business model worked great for Solyndra.....  Oh, wait.....

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:01 | 2778422 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

but, but, the people n the commercials r so happy!!!!!!!

great idea O'Sellout....

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:02 | 2778423 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

49 fucking big ones per car loss??

I for one horrible moment there thought you Americans had elected our last offical government of Labour cunts who could wreck an ecconomy from a hundred yards.  Do tell though, has tony fucking b.liar had anything at all to do with this motor?

This smells like his hands could be all over it the fucking perma-tanned cunt war criminal

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:11 | 2779182 smiler03
smiler03's picture

+1 for managing to flatter b.liar

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:02 | 2778429 tuttisaluti
tuttisaluti's picture

It would be cheaper to let the workers go and pay them the 49000 $ so they can enyoj going fishin.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:04 | 2778432 adr
adr's picture

I thought electric cars were supposed to be so cheap that everyone could afford to buy one?

The losses don't stop there. You also have to add in the $7500 federal tax credit and the $8000 charger that is thrown in with state and local subsidies.

In other words, how to bankrupt a country for votes.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:18 | 2778707 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

And let's not forget the cost - to the taxpayer - of all those charging stations that local utilities and state dept's of transportation are putting in in preparation for the 'electric car revolution'. Not one peep about switching over to CNG fuel, which can be made from garbage, literally. Cost of converting a gasoline engine to run on CNG anywhere between $600-$2500 depending on the engine. The technology is off-the-shelf and anyone the least bit mechanically inclined can do the conversion. But nooooo...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:22 | 2779703 patb
patb's picture

Americanspirit, I looked at converting the Company Chevy Silverado to CNG or LNG, at least back in 2009 it was going to be $10K. and I still needed to keep the Gas tanks because there was a shortage of LNG filling stations.  You can't fill a LNG car with what comes out of a 1.5" Municipal Methane line, you need big lines, say 8 " and you need a big compressor/Chiller,  Propane is about $3/Gal

so it's not a big savings there and LNG stations will requre a lot of money, it's why Pickens wanted a trillion dollars for LNG infrastructure.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:04 | 2778434 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Is there a better example of government "success"?

With success like this, we should be a bona fide turd world cuntry before year's end.

I swear to Mother Nature sometimes I just want to smash things and shout four letter words when it comes to the profound stupidity, bassackwardness and general fuckupedness of this society.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:21 | 2778504 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

"I swear to Mother Nature sometimes I just want to smash things and shout four letter words when it comes to the profound stupidity, bassackwardness and general fuckupedness of this committe driven SOCIALIST society."

I'm sure TPTB will want to slap on a value added tax to that since I improved it a bit...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:05 | 2778436 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Be forewarned... the future was, 'designed to fail', period!!!

Note: the world will be buying all their eVolts from the Chinese  in ten years or less at a premium,...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:27 | 2778526 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

The demand function has income as a variable. No income plus no savings equals zero quantity demanded. China will be selling to countries with income like Canada, states of Africa, Australia.... states of western europe, USA, Japan will be debt slaves.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:46 | 2778798 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkzBwXNACrM

... as Homer's half-brother [herb powell] cries, "I'm Ruined!"

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:07 | 2778438 Jason T
Jason T's picture

We should put tarriffs on all chevy volts like we did Chinese solar panels.  This government subsidy is unfair.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:07 | 2778439 Flounder
Flounder's picture

I think buying a used VW Jetta and converting it to run on used fryer oil is cheaper.

www.greasecar.com

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:26 | 2778739 frenzic
frenzic's picture

I run a W124 Benz diesel. It's frugal, rides well, has all the space I need and yes it runs on used fryer oil too. It costs pennies to run and own compared to something like a Volt. We are not going forward at all, only backwards.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:12 | 2778456 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

In all fairness to Obama...

GM didn't build those losses. Taxpayers did that.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:24 | 2778459 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

GM needs to get Morgan Stanlye to help them do adjusted EBITDA accounting on every Volt, just like dot.com 2.0 babies LNKD, OPEN and the others.

They will quickly turn those unsightly losses into hefty profits, maybe even greater than revenue!!

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