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Gold $1700

Tyler Durden's picture


The low prices sure were fun while they lasted. In other news, Spam is still cheap. And now, it is time for the CME to scramble to reinforce "risk management" and send margins to 100% because this aggression against "sound" money will simply not stand (oddly enough the 14% or so jump in the ES and various other equities contracts was not sufficient to prompt corresponding margin hikes).


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Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:25 | 1808646 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

This aggression will not stand man!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1808691 doomz78
doomz78's picture

CME hike anyone?  This is a good day.  Unless another Lehman event happens gold and silver should continue to rise.  But maybe..  maybe the market will do what I want it to do this time if the market crashes on a black swan event.  I can think of about 10 different black swans at the moment.  Last few times people have rushed to the safety of the US dollar.  Maybe this time they will rush to gold and silver.  

I do think that this will happen eventually.  I just don't know on the timing. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:40 | 1808734 pupton
pupton's picture

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just asking the question.  Isn't a "Black Swan" event something that nobody could have predicted?  In other words, for all the speculation about the 10 various things that could bring down the markets, the black swan is yet unseen, which is what makes it a black swan. 

Also, while I'm playing the role of newbie, what does Tyler mean when he (and some of you as well) talks about "Spam"?  Are we talking about the pink stuff that comes in a can or is it code for something else...sorry, I'm slow.  I've wondered this for a while.

Thanks, Pup

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1808770 Ronaldo
Ronaldo's picture

The canned stuff, good if you haven't eaten in a while or fried in a pan.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1808826 pupton
pupton's picture

Okay, thanks. 

I wonder what the shelf life of Spam is?  I have a (not so) little stash of food built up and wonder if Spam would make a nice addition.  Spam is gross when you think about it, but when you fry it up it smells great, then throw it on some toast and just add ketchup and you're good to go.  It has to have a 10+ year shelf life to consider adding probably.  I have a bunch of cans from Mountain House that last 30 years.

WRT Gold - Dennis Gartman looks like a God Damn Genious all of a sudden, huh?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:56 | 1808840 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I like to fry it up with a can of (strained) yams.  The sweetness from the yams does wonders with the salty savory of the spam.  Makes an easy tasty breakfast when you are out camping.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:25 | 1809279 akak
akak's picture

When I'm out camping, I like to encase a hunk of Spam in a thick coating of a mixture of mud and cow manure, making sure all sides are evenly thick, then setting it in the embers of a campfire; after two hours, just break away the hardened, blackened, baked coating of cow dung, carefully remove the now roasted piece of Spam --- and throw it away.  The mud and cow dung is much tastier.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:31 | 1809319 trav7777
trav7777's picture


As an aside, I've got a huge moneymaking scam I want to know who is down for...we are going to make counterfeit gold bars out of...PLATINUM

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:56 | 1809415 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

Such counterfeits wouldn't pass the bite test, Pt is too hard. But seriously, if there was a "bite test" for Pt then element 78 wouldn't have been surpassed by element 79.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:18 | 1809492 trav7777
trav7777's picture

we'll clad it in gold then.  We can downalloy the gold or the Pt to make the density and weight exactly right.  This is a unique opportunity here

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:55 | 1809679 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

In my estimation of the respective fundamentals, I'd prefer your counterfeits as long as I was certain they were genuine trav7777 counterfeits and not counterfeit.
What I mean is that if there were an easy test for authenticating Pt then its dollar price would never have fallen below that of Au. And when such a test is invented Pt will again be $higher than Au.
I think people are just worried that they might be buying silver or palladium when they are paying for platinum. Gold on the other hand is easy to authenticate. Just bite it.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:04 | 1809450 prole
prole's picture

Why is everyone in such a good mood?

Is gold up or something?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:46 | 1809371 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Nothing like ZH for delicious recipes!  Any wne recommendations?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:01 | 1809403 akak
akak's picture

MD 20 20, Night Train Express, Wild Irish Rose or anything by Boone's Farm would all be excellent choices here.  Each of those outstanding examples of the vintner's art would also pair well with the Spam-infused baked cow manure (see recipe above).

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:08 | 1809458 knukles
knukles's picture

Ah, much more cost effective to take some frozen juice or other cheap substitute and mix with Everclear.  A real man's man's drink.  None of that bum in the dirty rain coat under the bridge with fortified wine in a paper bag shit.... People'd think you're an alcoholic.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 17:21 | 1810041 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

MD 20 20, Night Train Express, Wild Irish Rose or anything by Boone's Farm would all be excellent choices here.

Your wine list is deep and exemplary, each entry outstanding (as in, out standing under a bridge), every selection a top-shelf choice in gas stations and mini marts nationwide. However, at the risk of being perceived a wine snob, I feel compelled to point out that, as white wine goes with seafood and red wine with beef dishes, the proper vintage to accompany fine Spam dining is T.J. Swine.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 18:31 | 1810233 akak
akak's picture

Ah, but given that pork (the ostensible source material for SPAM) is more of a white meat, not strictly speaking a red meat as is beef or lamb, it is entirely proper and acceptable to serve either a white or a red wine with fine pork dishes.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:31 | 1809041 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Until a can swells up like a melon it should be good to eat.

One thing is guaranteed, a can of Spam will outlast the EFSF which may, excuse the pun, be itself canned after tomorrow.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:17 | 1809258 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Say we were insane (or really really hungry), and couldn't not open that swollen can.  What kind of evil anti-food should we expect to encounter?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:43 | 1809538 akak
akak's picture


Unless it was a can of Spam.  Then it will be .... Spam.


And now for some Spamku:


Waxed my car with Spam:
The finish gleams, water beads,
Hungry dogs chase it.

I have some Spam wine,
A 1990 vintage;
it's still quite lumpy.

Myrrh, frankincense and
Spam; the gifts of two wise men
And one complete fool.

"Slow down", she whispered,
now guiding my trembling hands,
"Turn the key slowly".

Tastes like ham, sorta
But clogs up my aorta
Pig rigor morta.

Veggie Hormel snack:
Spiced wheat germ, compressed in blocks --
But who will buy SPERM?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 17:03 | 1809986 Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

Botulism and death or, ir you're lucky, an iron lung.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:46 | 1809106 Ronaldo
Ronaldo's picture

While I was in the Army we were provided cans of spam from the vietnam war period.  I joined in 1982 and was still getting SPAM until the c-rations were all gone, maybe until 1986.  I guess that may give you an idea. 

Stuff lasts forever and as has been stated, if the can swells, dont open it. 

This is also true for canned peaches and pears.  We used to give those swelled cans to the new guys.  When punched with a P-38 they exploded all of that fruit juice over the unsuspecting person.  Good thing we frequently got new guys in the unit or the fun would have been limited.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:49 | 1809393 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

When I was in the Navy during Viet Nam, we had rations from the Korean war and a few from WW2. You ain't seen nuttin till you seen canned bacon.  You can char-broil that crap all day and it will not crisp untill its charcoal.  Just a rubbery strip of fat no matter what you try.  Add dried eggs and powdered milk and the Navy justly earns all its good cooking awards...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:49 | 1808803 ICTruth
ICTruth's picture

Pink stuff in a can. Synonymous with Beans Bullets and Bandages and other Zombie Apocalypse preps. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1808830 HD
HD's picture

IMO Black swans are very rare events that people don't expect to happen - not so much that no one could imagine it happening. 9-11 was a black swan - however...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:06 | 1808923 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Not if you were a member of the Project for the New American Century.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:16 | 1808962 GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

The Black Swan moniker doesn't apply to 911 simply because so many people "in the know" didn't show up for work that day.


Not to mention that so many people reported to the authorities that just that very thing was being planned.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:39 | 1809349 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

The government was doing drills for 9-11 on 9-11.  The government also planned these drills back in the 70s (or was it the 60s?).  So it was hardly a black swan. Plenty of people expected it to happen.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:27 | 1809532 passwordis
passwordis's picture

 You mean plenty of people expected Israel to attack the US and blame it on Terrorists? Terrorists that don't exist outside of a CIA/Mossad creation?  The same CIA/Mossad who just got caught red handed attempting to do the same thing to Iran? That's what you mean, right?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:02 | 1808883 doomz78
doomz78's picture

you are correct.  I just finished watching Natalie Portman get pleasured by Milna Kulnis (meg) in Black Swan.  Wrong choice of terms on my part. I should of said that there were 10 different things that I can see that could take down the world market. i.e. Derivatives, europe, inflation, ........ 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:10 | 1809468 knukles
knukles's picture

.........and Natalie Portman's cooch.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:14 | 1809246 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture


Apologies for length...


A Food and Drug Administration Article about a shelf life test that was conducted on 100-year old canned foods that were retrieved from the Steamboat Bertrand can be read at the following link:


Following is a brief summary of a very small portion of the above article:


"Among the canned food items retrieved from the Bertrand in 1968 were brandied peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetables. In 1974, chemists at the National Food Processors Association (NFPA) analyzed the products for bacterial contamination and nutrient value. Although the food had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no microbial growth and determined that the foods were as safe to eat as they had been when canned more than 100 years earlier. The nutrient values varied depending upon the product and nutrient. NFPA chemists Janet Dudek and Edgar Elkins report that significant amounts of vitamins C and A were lost. But protein levels remained high, and all calcium values 'were comparable to today's products.'"


"NFPA chemists also analyzed a 40-year-old can of corn found in the basement of a home in California. Again, the canning process had kept the corn safe from contaminants and from much nutrient loss. In addition, Dudek says, the kernels looked and smelled like recently canned corn."


"According to a recent study cosponsored by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and NFPA, canned foods provide the same nutritional value as fresh grocery produce and their frozen counterparts when prepared for the table. NFPA researchers compared six vegetables in three forms: home-cooked fresh, warmed canned, and prepared frozen. 'Levels of 13 minerals, eight vitamins, and fiber in the foods were similar,' says Dudek. In fact, in some cases the canned product contained high levels of some vitamins that in fresh produce are destroyed by light or exposure to air."


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:52 | 1808822 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Where is the CME?  Only stocks should be able to go up more than 1% in a day, everything else is speculation

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1808905 agent default
agent default's picture

The more they hike, the less effective the hike.  If they do it again , then someone is really desperate.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:24 | 1809515 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bix would do well just to pipe down a bit. He looks like he's lost his mind saying that kind of horseshit.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:20 | 1808985 Apostle of Unknown
Apostle of Unknown's picture

What can they do? They're a bunch of fuckin' amateurs, and meanwhile, look at the bottom line: Who's sittin' on a million fuckin' dollars? Am I wrong?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:51 | 1809118 bbelux
bbelux's picture

Mr lebowski? Did you get a job?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:26 | 1808650 Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Tyler, I'm disappointed.  I expected the first thing I'd find on ZH this morning was a hilarious graphic of NFLX cratering.  

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:30 | 1808688 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

The 'finacial advisor' down the street told me last month to buy NFLX, "it'll never drop" he claimed.

I think he has excellent potential as an RE seller.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1808740 Mitch Comestein
Mitch Comestein's picture

Maybe he meant it would never drop......under 0.01.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:26 | 1808651 unky
unky's picture

Crazy market volatility. I think I will lock in the low price of today morning by using a slow price update dealer ;- )

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1808655 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I don't like it.  It smells.

Only buy physical.  Two years from now, you will marvel at what a deal you got.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1808784 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Brent crude spread collapsing, MF global down loads.

Smells like someone blew up.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:56 | 1808846 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

I think this smells fishy too. 

a)  I think they are just squeezing the options expiry traders.  If not, then: 

b)  Nothing will attract the wack-a-mole antics of TPTB more than a 3% rise in one day.

c)  On the other hand, the collapse is here.

Which of the above things is the more likely?

Keep stacking physical and defend those paper profits.  A close below $1700 is not very promising for the rest of the week.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:30 | 1809033 Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Are we still on Spam - or are you saying this market smells? ; )

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:38 | 1809060 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

While I am fairly new to finance and economy, I hope I've learned enough to know when something's fishy and this leads me to conclude that someone has gotten a whiff of what the EU is about to announce tomorrow. I've decided to, in light of the EU summit, minimize my risk and spread my gold purchases 50-50 over the period of the summit. I guess now I know what to expect tomorrow. Will or perhaps rather When will they hit the print button?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1808658 rumblefish
rumblefish's picture

gold up, the markets and NFLX down. Finally something that makes sense from the markets.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:42 | 1808745 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Oil is up too.....

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1808660 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'In other news, Spam is still cheap.'

Roubini slapdowns will never be out of style...

Classic Durden.

BTW did you make a bid for RGE monitor?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:33 | 1809047 Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Gold costs more than Spam, and it's gone up very nicely for the last 3 or 4 days, but 1700 is still cheap!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1808662 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Any fun thoughts on what caused today's action?  Most conspiratorial theory wins a chicken din-din.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1808682 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Probably rats jumping off the Euro ship.  In a related note, so glad Benny has been buying worthless Euros and Euro Banks hand over fist.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1808831 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

Damn you and your completely practical answer.  I guess I'll keep my chicken din to myself.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1808834 seek
seek's picture

Conspiracy "Lite": someone knew about the meeting cancellation and was frontrunning the news.

Conspiracy "Heavy": someone knows about the european union imploding and is frontrunning the news.


Seriously, if you're in Europe anywhere in the world you'd have to be retarded to not have a significant AU holding, given there is no winning long term in this environment with any fiat-denominated currency.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:49 | 1809114 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

BOJ joining the BOE in more QE - also lowers the hurdle for the ECB to QE

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:24 | 1809289 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

Buying Italian bonds, isn´t that QE? We live in a QE world, ride the Free Money Wave.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:06 | 1809455 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Martians withdrew from bailout talks. Say they are not willing to prop Europe up any longer. Ben is heading to NASA to catch the next flight for a emergency meeting. :P

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1808663 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

Great news. Now I can unload my last shread of PM paper at a profit.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1808823 Transformer
Transformer's picture

But you won't be able to help yourself, and you will buy more.  Just look at your Avatar.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:23 | 1809282 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

Mmmm, maybe you are right, I dunno... I have this other trade I need the dry powder for so we´ll see. If I can get a decent two figure percentage I´ll prolly turn my back on leveraged metal and just stack physical.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:56 | 1808844 s2man
s2man's picture

Ditto.  Holding out for 1800.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1808665 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

like I said yesterday. looks like the correction is over. Gold is once again reflecting the deminishing purchasing power of the dollar just as it has historically against other collapsing fiat currencies. They can manipulate it all they want, the laws of economics always win out.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:30 | 1808684 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

no no no not laws of ecnomics.  that's like saying the laws of makes no sense.  the laws of system science and dynamic equilibrium always win out.  economics is a smear on the world of science that is being wiped

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:44 | 1808759 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Economics is a science of human behavior as the Austrian School teaches. Poetry is not a science. The fact that every fiat currency in the history of the world has failed while gold has stood the test of time is testament to that economic law.

Listen to Rep. Ron Paul educate chairman Bernanke on this very issue

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:52 | 1808819 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

No economics is a psuedoscience.  It's based on bad math and has no self-awareness of its position within the heirarchy of science.  If it was a real science it would reflect, for example, the dynamics of ecology much more tightly.   I'm not saying that there isn't a field of economics that might one day exist as a legitimate science, but the current illusion is in no way connected with what that science might look like.  Again, it would be based on the dynamics of system science, as all self-organizing (aka living) systems are.

Economics doesn't equal a science....that was the whole point of the poetry analogy.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1808833 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Hear, hear!!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:29 | 1809026 BillyTheBlade
BillyTheBlade's picture

I am inclined to believe that there are very sound scientific economic principles that are laws.  Economics as a whole may not be a science, but that does not mean that there are not laws within it.  Take Inflation for example.  When you have too many dollars chasing too few goods, 10 out of 10 times prices will rise.  Thats my two cents. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:59 | 1809168 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

And agreed by me.  Taken as a whole, economics is scary enough (regarding its influence on society) that i'm a bit aggressive when calling out bullshit on it.  It's like a little baby science that's still teething.  Many of the parts are already present (IMO) that would be part of a legitimate science of economics, but the relationship between the parts is highly distorted.  Seems as though it should be the type of science where the relationship between the parts is likely more important than, say, the structure of the parts as they exist independently from each other.  I better stop here, though, cause I'm probably starting to write some bad poetry myself.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:48 | 1809651 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

All science has tensions between the academics and the experimentalists.  I suspect that the academics of economy are as guilty if not more so than those in other fields of overfitting curves to claim they know things they don't.  While nothing much changes, those super-fitted curves do well, when something not taken into account (those extra variables need to do the curve fit that either have no meaning or no correctly known meaning) changes, it fails miserably.

Spoken as someone who straddles both as a physicist, and who aced econ in college lo these many decades ago.  Interesting subject, but compared to hard science of any sort, pretty weak stuff.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:10 | 1809225 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

I junked myself

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1808825 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

And thanks for the link, I'll listen to it when I'm done with my homework.  RP is my booooooy.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1808667 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

building a yellow brick road doesn't come cheap.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1808668 broke433
broke433's picture

200 more to go dor a awesome short

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1808692 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Don't fight the Fed.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:51 | 1808816 The_Euro_Sucks
The_Euro_Sucks's picture

I assume you mean dont fight physical gold and silver?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:33 | 1809570 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Fight 'em?  Hell, my gold is counting on them to do what they do; lie, print, steal.  Place your bets...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:19 | 1808982 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

on the silver price, you must mean ... right?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:28 | 1808669 Cangaroo.TNT
Cangaroo.TNT's picture

What's the G/S[pam] ratio?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1808720 fuu
fuu's picture

Case of 24/12oz spam goes for around $88. $88/288oz = $.30/oz.

So 1:5670?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:02 | 1808884 Transformer
Transformer's picture

You know, thinking about this, spam is probably a better representation of the true value of money.  Gold has been suppressed for so long that all it's going to do is appreciate in value, over and above the depreciation of dollars.  Silver the same.

So maybe we could have a daily quote here of the gold/spam and silver/spam ratio.  Spam is recognized the world over and in some countries is very desirable.  japan comes to mind.  This would allow investors to get a real grip on what's going on and would leave the dollar out of the equation, which as everyone gets, is completely unreliable anyway.


Like this:


G/Sp ratio  5,670

S/Sp ratio  111

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:10 | 1808942 s2man
s2man's picture

I bought a nice exhaust fan a couple of years ago. $125.  Now they are pushing @200.  Maybe I should create a Au:fan index.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:46 | 1809103 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

I bought a new Multifuel stove 3 years ago. I kept a record of all the prices of the competing brands and models I looked at in a spreadsheet at the time. I went through this at the weekend with a friend who is buying a stove and to my astonishment there was not one single unit that hadn;t increased by 20 to 60 %.

Thats cast fucking iron, it only costs $5 to dig up and Silver ........

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:53 | 1809407 jonan
jonan's picture

100 rounds of 9mm go for $29 in my area now, was $17 a few years ago...




curious to actually see what a three year graph of any of those ratios would actually look like, my guess is relatively flat...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:29 | 1808673 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

Euro stimulus package to be annonunces tomorrow, 1 trillion and up. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:33 | 1808700 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

even better, they'll fall short, cause a serious bank problem and launch a 3 trillion plan in 4 months from now.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1808738 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Awesome, considering 2T is priced in.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:29 | 1808675 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

ES is the measure of Bernanke's success.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:30 | 1808683 Odin
Odin's picture

In other, other news, the algos are quite obviously in high gear today...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:31 | 1808693 NDXTrader
NDXTrader's picture

Looks like a massive American Refinance Plan is being baked in to the cake. The Euro simply will not stay down so my guess is that all of the talk about MBS purchases, really just laying the groundwork for out and out debt modification across the board backed by the FED. Call it QE3 if you like, but it has cover as being a plan for the "common man" which makes it acceptable and even desireable politically. Of course, it is just stealth recap of the banks and allows them to delay further write-downs of their portfolios, but you can definitely sell this to the sheeple as being the first "bailout" of Joe and Jane six-pack. I'm thinking a $1.5 trillion program is about right.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1808705 NDXTrader
NDXTrader's picture

...and I'm not talking HARP. I'm talking full on printing presses on until they scream and debt forgiveness/modification

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:40 | 1808735 Christoph830
Christoph830's picture

Any massive loan modification program for homeowners will not occur until the Fed gets more clarity on outcome of the Eurozone mess.

After all, lower debt service for homeowners won't matter when the residual effects of a Eurozone collapse means they no longer have a job (and steady income stream) and their 401Ks are wiped out. 

IMHO, the Fed has to be patient on this one.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:32 | 1808696 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Nice area to sell some from: look back over the past 2mo or so. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1808703 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

That is one beautiful chart, you can't sell that.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:33 | 1808699 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Well I guess the jolly green giant woke up this morning and pissed all over these silly, out of control,  paper mache markets.

It would have happened sooner or later.

Fundamentals mean nothing until one day, one morning, they mean everything. 

We will have many, many more jolly green giant mornings ladies....and boys.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:33 | 1808701 bgilliam83
bgilliam83's picture

Keep talking shit Tyler.  They put spam on sale you know?  I got Jolly Green giant veggie cans for 39 cents last year that don't expire till 2013, I think they are $1 now if you are lucky.  To me, anything that increases your odds of survival is the bets I am making given the circumstances, but I am admittedly paranoid.  Gold is going to do jack squat unless you are betting on the NWO and central banks staying in power the rest of your life?  Give me a break!  Or give me death lol.  Go spam

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:35 | 1808713 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Ok, now it's time to strap on the Swiss Alps hiking boots, angong with picks and ropes for the ascend...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1808719 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

So, why is it up?  

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1808990 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

It's a market. Markets go up and down.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1808721 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Alisdair Macleod (of the clan Macleod) nails it again. Is anybody at OWS paying attention and getting it?


Macleod said:

"Firstly, it is a basic human right to choose to save without our savings being debased by the tax of monetary inflation. Those who are worst affected by this inflation tax are not the rich -- they benefit -- but the poor and the barely well-off, which is why monetary inflation undermines society and why the right to sound money should be respected. If government gives itself a monopoly over money, it has a duty to protect the property rights vested in it.

"Secondly, it is a basic right for us to own our own money rather than have it owned by the banks. For them to take our money and expand credit on the back of it debases it. It is an abuse of an individual's property rights and a banking licence is a government licence to do so. If anyone else was to do this, they would be guilty of fraud. Banks should be custodians of our money, and it should not appear in their balance sheets as their property."


Alasdair Macleod: Why sound money is a basic human right | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee




Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:19 | 1808980 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

"Here are a few simple principles that will save you the hassle and embarrassment of constantly being surprised by the actions of politicians and central bankers. They will never sacrifice the system to preserve the value of the currency. But they will always sacrifice the currency to save the system. And there is a very simple formula for how they do it.

There are four players to keep in mind; the debtors, the savers, the banks and the printer. They never print and give the money directly to the debtors to pay off their debt. Instead they print and give the money to either the creditors (banks) or the savers (e.g. pension funds) in exchange for the older bad debt which they then put on the public balance sheet to socialize the lost value.

So they "bail out" the banks and the savers nominally, which in turn (through currency debasement) actually bails out the debtors and screws the savers. The banks come out even because they only require nominal performance. But the retirees and pensioners that require real performance at the supermarket get screwed.

It is important to understand the difference between nominal and real. Nominal means you get the number you expected. Real means you get the purchasing power you expected. Nominal expansion is volume-only expansion which is all the politicians and central bankers can do. Real degradation is the value degradation that goes along with nominal expansion or debasement. The banks don't mind this because they only require nominal performance and their CEO's are comfortably seated at the business end of the printing press where they can turn their personal share of the bailout into real returns."


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:40 | 1808728 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

If you bought at the low $1600 congratulations to you.

But do keep some dry powder because this is not it.

Once again leveraged mofos driving prices up like crazy.

I will not buy more until I see at least one of these:

1- Some defaults/bankruptcies or

2- Money printing in the US or

3- The USD index > 85 at least


How about you?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:57 | 1808777 afdestruction
afdestruction's picture

Couldn't agree more. How do some of the people here see an insane rally in the markets and say "manipulation!" but when PM's sky rocket within an hour its because people have discovered the truth behind them... Come on now.

 To my knowledge there was no fundamental reason for gold to rally so quickly. Is it WORTH way more, yea, but an artificial rally is just as dangerous as an artificial crash. I'm staying on the sidelines.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:18 | 1808974 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

So to the downside as to the upside. They'll raise margins again at market close today due to "increased volatility"

I'm happy as a pig in shit that I bought at 1600, 1580 and too at 35 and then 30. I have a feeling it's going to go much lower and then I'll buy more then too.

Just keep buying. People tend to try and ride momentum like this as long as possible so it could get up there pretty quick and then come back down, or hell it might even just take off. 

There's also the possibility that they'll mark this thing back up to 40-45-50 then send it screaming down to 25-22-20 and make out like hell of their shorts before the game's over.

Never know. Get your hands on some though before we find out and don't go all in because it's rising. Ride the waves, there will be another dip, trust me.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:53 | 1809131 augmister
augmister's picture

What he said!   Keep yer powder dry!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1808785 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Leveraged?  There is very little leverage available, at least not in silver.  Only three to one.

If you wait for the events you describe, you likely won't get any.  Better to just cost average your way in (and out when your exit goal is triggered--be sure to have one).  I'm not saying to buy on the rips like today, but I usually buy every month on the day after OpEx, or thereabouts.  Of course, now I will probably wish I had bought yesterday, but so what?  I got low, low prices the last couple of months.  No big deal if it goes up a little or a lot.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1808993 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Dollar cost average your acquisitions. If you're unsure unload 50% one day then 50% the next day.

If you're really unsure go with 33%, 73% etc. Have a plan in place already so you know which trade strategy you're going to use otherwise you'll make some stupid decisions and regret them.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:20 | 1809272 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

I can get 5,45 (prolly more) here in Sweden but perhaps Americans are excluded from RBS minifutures?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:51 | 1808813 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Until s close > 50DMA, which sits at 1742 currently and which is also a heavy line of resistance (~1740s) . Where that to break, itd make a nice cushion as S (hopefully) and perhaps a retest of highs. But this one-off run at 1700, not buying it. And nor should you if youre eager to see SPX @ 1000 with an EU sov collapse, no matter what the reason will be for holding your gold (and canned goods etc...) the gold on the fin markets will be sold when in need of cash.

No other way around it.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:09 | 1809462 trav7777
trav7777's picture

why sell anything when you can borrow at 0%?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:29 | 1809028 ZeroHedgeFan
ZeroHedgeFan's picture

You said "Once again leveraged mofos driving prices up like crazy." Sorry I'm pretty new here. What is "mofos"?



Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:43 | 1809087 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

'mofos' are 'mother fuckers'.

Sorry for the impolite abbreviation.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1808729 Milton William ...
Milton William Cooper's picture

This is what happens Larry

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1808739 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:41 | 1808743 Chappy
Chappy's picture

Who thinks that when the great crash actually happens, gold and silver will sell off like everything else.  People will be getting margion calls and have to liquidate everything.  THAT will be the time to buy.. Thoughts?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1808796 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

They might except that PMs will hold much better and will probably recover very quickly (especially Gold).

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:52 | 1808821 Ronaldo
Ronaldo's picture

I am with you on this one.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:24 | 1808986 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

If TSHTF, people will rush into paper gold and silver, while smart money will step out leaving retail to hold the bag.  Anything can happen over the short run, but that doesn't matter.  What really matters is the supply of physical will dry up overnight, completely decoupling the physical and paper prices.  That will cause outright panic, crashing paper gold and paper silver prices.

One thing is certain, nobody will ever give you a piece of their company for free, so stocks will never go to zero, but paper gold and paper silver very well may be destined for zero in a complete collapse in the world's largest Ponzi scheme. 

EDIT:  There won't BE any paper gold and paper silver when the end of the current system comes.  All trading will be halted. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:24 | 1809004 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

too late to buy then. paper gold price may be 200 bucks but good luck trying to buy physical at that price.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:48 | 1809387 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

When the great crash happens, people will liquidate to cover their margins.  Then they will liquidate to buy rice, beans and spam.  Then they will liquidate to buy lead and lead delivery systems to protect their spam.  Be one step ahead.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:42 | 1808747 Mr. White
Mr. White's picture

Woo hoo! There must be some smiling faces gazing at ZH today. Where will gold be end of year? 2000 at last?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:44 | 1808764 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Hormel makes the best Spam. Their trademark is "Break The Monotony".  No kidding, right there on the label, along with interesting recipes for Hot Cheesy Party Dip and Breakfast Enchiladas.  Who knew life could be so good.

Let's break the monotony, shall we?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:01 | 1808882 fuu
fuu's picture

Their internal motto is "Innovate don't Imitate".

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:44 | 1808765 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

fuck, it landed on a buy day

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:46 | 1808775 Lazane
Lazane's picture

It might hold up this time, as it came to me in a vision last nite, we are going much higher in gold and silver is going to explode higher yet. stack and stack till I break my back.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:49 | 1808804 jomama
jomama's picture

did you find jesus in a gold nugget too?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1808778 monkeys.pick.bottoms
monkeys.pick.bottoms's picture

As a non-economist and I guy who basically knows squat, I think when the metals are going up they are still manipulated - this time to the upside. The basic problem that the managers of this planet have is how to provide a gold/silver foundation under all this credit pyramid so that the social structure does not collapse. Therefore, we're going to gradually see prices of Au/Ag going higher and higher until one day we wake up and gold is $10 000 and silver is $1 000. That is probably the only way out. But then again, what do I know. I'll just "sit tight and be right"

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1808989 BandGap
BandGap's picture

A lot of us know diddly squat but we still get a vote. Is this a great country or what?  Dream the impossible dream, baby!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 12:49 | 1808792 jomama
jomama's picture

i can't keep up nor make sense of the manipulation in fiat terms.  

i just keep buying.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:01 | 1808880 kito
kito's picture

anybody want to wager that tyler just jinxed the price again?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:15 | 1808958 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Definitely wrong on silver, the Fed is going to find out how far is too far on the next print fest.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:19 | 1808979 Gene8696
Gene8696's picture

God I hope so...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:21 | 1808991 data_monkey
data_monkey's picture

Hope so. No more black swan events either, plz. I want it to stay down.

Just sold my condo to some sucker, er, nice retired couple, for $500K and wanna drop a chunk of that on more metal at a big discount but the deal doesn't close for a month...

Quick, margin hike!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:20 | 1809271 Golden Showers
Golden Showers's picture

Good for you. I hope you screwed those old dudes as hard as you could. And for you, today, I also ask the Jeez that PM prices will stay down, Low'rd! Just so nice boyz like you can jerk themselves online and feel good.

You made my day.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:22 | 1809502 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

At this point in the game, I wouldn't worry too much about buying PMs at lower prices.  TPTB will raid the market again.  And when SHTF, big money boys will liquidate their gold position first to raise capital.  All buying opportunities in my opinion.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1808915 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

14% rise in the S&P is totally accepted in 3 weeks yup, no problem!  all is well.
Wait Gold is up $150 from the lows.  Better hike up margin rates. 

This is all going to end badly for those of you who don't own some gold and silver.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:06 | 1808924 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

All I want is the markets to go down and GOld and Silver and my miners to rise.

Is that asking to much?  It's what SHOULD happen in any sane world.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:24 | 1809005 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Looks like the sale on physical gold and silver is now over.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:42 | 1809085 dereksatkinson
dereksatkinson's picture

IMF is going to bail out Europe and the US Fed is going to be funding the IMF.  Basically, the bailout burden of Europe is now on the shoulders of the USA and our Fed. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:11 | 1809231 Conax
Conax's picture

The globalists used our know-how and manufacturing accumen to industrialize the third world with our jobs.

The globalists use our military might and manpower to do their dirty work in the middle east.

And now the globalists use our taxpayers (what's left of these shagged out tax zombies) to finance the IMF and thus the snobby and condescending europeans.  It's a very good thing for the world that Americans are distracted by their own problems in so many aspects. Wait til the rednecks find out who did this to them.

I can't wait.

BTW, I thought the Germans were supposed to pick up the tab this time.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:49 | 1809655 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Come on!

"I thought the Germans were supposed to pick up the tab this time"

they picked it up after WWI, WWII and now a third time? like "third time is the charm?"

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:43 | 1809091 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Margins to 150% bitchez!!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:55 | 1809144 augmister
augmister's picture

I don't understand everyone breaking out the pompoms here.... we are still early in the game.  It's insurance to leverage you to the "new normal" which has yet to be decided.... Lighten up and buy the dips, dips!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:30 | 1809549 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I agree.  We've been here before.  And we'll be here again.  For PM owners, this is time to sit back and enjoy the price action.  For newbs who don't own PMs, don't get too excited or worry that you might've missed the train.  Instead, just accumulate little by little and wait for big money boys to liquidate their position in gold.  Then back up your U-Haul.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:00 | 1809170 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Occupy Gold & Silver BITCHEZ! 


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:50 | 1809658 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Occupy Bitchez?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 14:20 | 1809270 Conax
Conax's picture

I will reserve my celebration over this little spike.. We got taken down hard at 48, again at about 42. We are still lagging reality by about 20%. Silver and gold are still in a dip, so feel free to buy, now's the time. 

Sure, the wizards will trash it again, and probably soon, but the phyzz is getting scarce. Want some? 

Make the call.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 15:37 | 1809581 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Phyzz is getting scarce only if you're looking to buy in tonnes.  For most retail investors looking to buy a monster box of silver or a few ounces of gold, there's plenty available.  I bought two 100 oz Engelhards and some gold and platinum just this past weekend.  Would've/could've picked up some more but I thought the prices might drop lower.  Oh well.  I'm sure TPTB will put PMs on sale again sooner than later. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 16:38 | 1809885 Conax
Conax's picture

I just checked a favorite online dealer, and you are quite right! There are ASEs and whatnot back in there. Just last week, it was getting tough to find the primo bullion coins and such. I actually bought a few oz just to have a nice package show up here, it has been a while. A stiff $5 plus premium is in place..

But if the price drops, the small potatoes retail begins to get pulled from shelves. If people want some, and it's available, they need to stop worrying and buy it. And if there's a real dip, move fast!

I'm a shoestring buyer, a tater-tot.


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