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Gold: 1980 vs Today

Tyler Durden's picture





 

When gold was undergoing its latest (and certainly not greatest) near-parabolic move last year, there were those pundits consistently calling for comparisons to 1980, and the subsequent gold crash. Yet even a simplistic analysis indicates that while in the 1980s gold was a hedge to runaway inflation, in the current deflationary regime, it is a hedge to central planner stupidity that will result as a response to runaway deflation. In other words, it is a hedge to what happens when the trillions in central bank reserves (at last check approaching 30% of world GDP). There is much more, and we have explained the nuances extensively previously, but for those who are only now contemplating the topic of gold for the first time, the following brief summary from futuremoneytrends.com captures the salient points. Far more importantly, it also focuses on a topic that so far has not seen much media focus: the quiet and pervasive expansion in bilateral currency agreements which are nothing short of a precursor to dropping the dollar entirely once enough backup linkages are in place: a situation which will likely crescendo soon courtesy of upcoming developments in Iran, discussed here previously

 


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Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

For us here it is beyond words how any intelligent person does not have some percentage of their assets in gold, silver. I cannot comprehend that most Americans still believe the dollar is OK. Understand most Americans do not even have a clue about finance, savings or currencies. But to blindly believe that what our govt. is doing is going to be OK is absurd.

But I guess if you get your news from Diane Sawyer, well, that is what you deserve. And to this day, only 1 of my associates and friends has physical gold. No one else. You ask 95% of the people if they own gold or how do you buy gold, you get a blank stare or Huh?

I cannot even get my own brother to buy some gold. 

Amazing.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

brothers are real shitheads!

listen:  go down to ye0ldeCoyneShoppe, buy a 1/10 oz american eagle for abt $200, cash;  tell your moroninc brother you need $200 cash and show him the coin in a nice 2X2 flip;  tell him he can hold the coin till next week;  or maybe his wife or gf!  L0L!!!

maybe give him a silver dollar if you "need" $25.00!   he's your brother and you should kill him if this doesn't work!

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:53 | Link to Comment ServingMyKing
ServingMyKing's picture

I'm also trying to encourage others to accumalate.  Holding PMs in your hands can change your perception of money.  The only gifts I give anymore are PMs.  When my kids get FRNs as gifts, I convert them to PMs.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes, Monopoly.  Only about 3% of Americans own physial gold.  That will change and when it does "look out above"!

Oh, and all you dumb asses in GLD and SLV.  Please run to your bathroom mirror "right now" and say to yourself.  "Here I am wearing this GLD chastity belt and I'm still getting fucked!"  Duh!

"If it's written on paper it's worth the paper it's written on."      Pastor Lindsey Williams  -- conduit to the demon elite

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:58 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If brothers were any good even God would have some.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:19 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Been trying to convince my brother of same. He has a ~500k mortgage on a house that might be worth much less once Canada's real estate bubble really pops, he's pumping kids out, and so on. I tell him he should try to start aiming for at least 1 oz Au and 10 oz Ag per family member, and start building up towards that goal. Tells me he doesn't have the money, what with the mortgage, car payment and kids.

Next thing I know he bought himself a 4k 70" TV for Christmas. I understand he has the "wealth" now, but on a day by day basis. He loses his job and he's done for.

/facepalm 

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:09 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

wth...1 oz Au is pretty trivial

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 11:30 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I didn't say it wasn't, expecially for someone living the lifestyle I'm describing, although this is still much more than 99% of the population. I just told him this as a reasonable starting point, by the time he held 1 oz Au per family member I am sure he'd see the worth of it and prefer to hold more rather than buying a 4 grand tv on credit which will be worth 2k by next year if he's lucky...

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

a topic that so far has not seen much media focus: the quiet and pervasive expansion in bilateral currency agreements which are nothing short of a precursor to dropping the dollar entirely

You betcha, Tyler. That may not get big MSM coverage, but anyone with any real wealth to preserve is keenly aware. That goes under the category of geopolitical risk. And that's a clear driver of gold all throughout history. When you're not sure, even if there's a 1/1,000 chance that your currency's buying power could be cut by 90% overnight, you hedge that. And the nightmare scenarios just start from there to infinity. 

We been on it here on ZH. China started it's first swap agreements quietly in 08. At first it was Asian countries and now it's commodity producers with big trading agreements with China. To me, the big statement last year came when Japan entered into a Yuan swap agreement, turning its back squarely on the West. Add UAE this year to the list

Gold in 1980 surged as an inflation-meltdown hedge. The dollar's buying power was in quicksand since the late 1960s but especially after Nixon's slamming shut the gold window followed by a 10% dollar devaluation vs gold (in December, 1971). The devaluation coupled with a plan for floating currency exchange rates together formed The Nixon Shock (end of Bretton Woods). At that time, Nixon called the devaluation "a temporary solution" :-) But floating currencies coupled with mushrooming twin deficits proved a recipe for inflation. Gold was the solution. 

There's a very different picture now, and yet the basic themes are the same: fear of currency devaluation and instability. The post=Bretton Woods world is a very uncertain place. And China's growing currency accords are adding to it. This time around, there is a growing awareness and consensus that one sovereign currency alone is not optimal as global exchange. But that means gold is the only safe hedge against the uncertainty of what's to come. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

+1

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:54 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

You bet your sweet bippy !!!

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:02 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

We been on it here on ZH. China started it's first swap agreements quietly in 09. At first it was Asian countries and now it's commodity producers with big trading agreements with China. To me, the big statement last year came when Japan entered into a Yuan swap agreement, turning its back squarely on the West.

And China's growing currency accords are adding to it.

Gold in 1980 surged as an inflation-meltdown hedge.

***************

Trading with or against the Yaun is the same thing as trading with or against the USD--remember- they're locked and what happens to the USD- happens to the Yaun-

I wonder what all those countries-especially China will do with the accumulation of USD's that flow into their countries by way of trade surpluses with the US?

Gold surged in 1980 because of a mania ie: the public was involved and Volcker unknowingly lurked in the shadows

The reason gold climbed above the $35 was because foreign lenders were dumping the USD in retaliation for the Nixon default-they also bought all other commodities with their new "unbacked" USD's-

Volcker didn't tame in inflation with high interest rates-he drew money out of gold and all other commodities with those high return rates and back into US paper and then-commodity prices fell as they lost their bid-

I agree we are nowhere near a bubble in gold and i doubt we ever will be-gold is money after all and in a deflationary climate-money is king-

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:10 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

the fuckin yuan is pegged to the dollar...the yen was pegged to the dollar for the better part of last year as well

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment _underscore
_underscore's picture

The 'in your face face' inflation on the 70s & 80s was visible the everyone, today's (real) inflation isn't - it's massaged downwards in 'weighted' ratings & basket items like 40 inch LCD TVs that continue to fall in relative price.

People seeing 10,12,15% interest rates & TV newscasts that inflation was 15% energised the people to buy some hedge - today it's just different. An analogy you might use is you in good street light you can see the mugger 200ft away & take action ,today the 'lights' are off & you won't see that mugger coming - until it's too late, of course.

Today's inflation in the 'real stuff you need to live' category is still being bought by Indians, Chinese/S.America  - food, fuel etc. - in the 70/80s everything inflated & America/the West were the biggest consumers, so determined prices for everyone - we don't anymore - fuel/food prices are dtermined by the vastly more rich (than they were) Asian & S.American economies.

 TVs are still cheap because the producers want to sell them with an undervalued currency & reserve dollar holders aren't unhappy about that either. When the middle-classes grow in those producer nations, they won't need to export so much to us old worlders & will re-value - then TVs will get dear too.

The axis is slowly shifting - but it won't shift too fast because a bit more time helps the East/southern hemisphere prepare better. China will move further away from the reserve currency & be preapred to back the Yuan with gold to re-inforce that claim. China will continue to buy cheap natural resources with its dollar reserves & won't upset the boat too much so it can still get good value from them. Like Russia it will continue to divest itself of dollar denominated bonds/USTs. China (like India, Russia, Brazil) needs to grow its middle-classes as a hedge against social unrest brought about by cheap production (low wages) over the years whislt it gained a production foothold in the West & so therefore modernise its production capacity & infrastructure.

Net result: The West/America (if we avoid social cataclysm) will get alot poorer before we get richer (assuming the planet's not too fucked by that time). Whatever though, the world will become more equal, regionally.  So, get real (real) assets, cut your debts & live more frugally & you'll be fine.

Please forgive any typos in the above, just rattled it off - must dash.

 

 

 

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:12 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

typos? It's idiotic.

ANYONE who thinks the yuan is a reserve currency is a moron.  The nation of china is of negative profitability with trillions in bad loans.  The yuan is backed by empty cities, polluting plants producing plastic shit, a pathetic high speed rail system that crashed and went out of service, and the corruption of the CCP.

Who the HELL would want to hold this piece of shit currency?  China prints it by the assload.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 06:28 | Link to Comment _underscore
_underscore's picture

Well. wait & see trav7777.  By the way - try to be polite. Manners maketh the man (or woman).

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

 

as opposed to the dollar backed by an antique rail system, an absent production structure, a buch of idiots buying CHina's plastic shit (who is more stupid?) and a road and bridge system recently given a "D' grade by its engineers. Oh, and our assload (measured by the number of asses per dollar) is bigger. What's your point? Nice post Underscore  

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:37 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

"Gold" Same as it ever was.

Bitch slapped and chocked by the criminal bankers.

Go into the usa esf site and read what timmy and the crew can and do with gold in their Exchange Stabilization Fund,

They can even borrow ,interest free money against the USA SDR 's that the USA has with the IMF.

And play with paper gold too.

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

Ps...

Fuck You little Timmy.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:25 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

they can choke her, slap her, and write her name on the bathroom wall, but they can't kill her. In the end, she will kill them.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:37 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

 

"Fuck You little Timmy."

 

AND THE PONY HE RODE IN ON!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment sasebo
sasebo's picture

Right now the fed by lending gold & the bullion banks by shorting it are controlling the price of gold. But what happens when their paper & digital money becomes worthless? Gold, $20,000.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:34 | Link to Comment grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

The question is, how many times has that gold been lent to multiple parties? These guys not only have a bias toward over-printing, but also leverage.

This is one reason the individual holding 100%-owned physical will do very well in every scenario except an economy with solid core growth and prosperity.

I'm for RP, but I would hope a Fed audit would happen over several years in stages before a full-reveal. A full-monty Fed view would have the same effect on the economy as someone looking at Medusa. 

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

in the current deflationary regime, it is a hedge to central planner stupidity that will result as a response to runaway deflation.

Of course, this means the best place to be right now is physical dollars.  The time to exchange them for gold will be when we test the 666 lows.  

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:22 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

in the current deflationary regime, it is a hedge to central planner stupidity that will result as a response to runaway deflation.

*************

Gold always has a political risk side to it but the reason gold is a hedge in deflationary times is for the same reason dollars or but more so-bonds are bought-

Credit default risk = "deflation"

In 2000/01-the long bond and gold both seen the risk (hyper-inflation of credit money supply) at exactly the same time-

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TP30A28

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2012/02/Gold-LT1.png


Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:47 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

If there is a period of runaway deflation, then stocks and commodities such as gold, silver, and even crude will plummet.  It will not last long, however, as the response (ie mega printing) will cause runaway inflation.  This will have less to do with velocity than loss of confidence in dollars, btw.  I am thinking that before this happens is precisely the time to buy.  In order to do so one must have cash.  I highly recommend that you are all set on the more important commodities of food and water and bullets, etc. first.  I do not deny pm's will skyrocket.

I have heard the argument also that physical will not be available given such a crash.  I believe it will be plentiful for a short period of time.  I have referred to it here as a "deflationary window".  Out here on this limb silver will touch $18.  When it does, people will be talking about $4 silver.  I will be  buying more at $20.  Note I said buying more.

PS.  compare your gold graph tp aapl. 

http://stockmarket618.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/2012-02-05_aapl_mth2.png

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:20 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

PS.  compare your gold graph tp aapl.

**************

I wouldn't discount the possibility of gold touching its 65 WMA at some point in a panic sell off-around 1400 (without looking) but as you say-not for long-

Yes--hold some cash and if that happens and load up on the miners-

I'm not sure why you would compare your chart to that weekly?

If you look at it-it is a perfect chart of bull market action-there is nothing parabolic about it-

There has been no public drive to gold--ZIP-

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2010/10/Gold-percentage-of-financia...

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2010/05/gold-and-other-bubbles.gif

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2010/05/gold-vs.-past-bulls.jpg

Gold miners fell about 30% in the 30's before they caught fire and that could happen again-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/RbmMtplgCjI/AAAAAAAAAPk/NtN5JDlwHi...

30% of 1900 = 570

1900 - 570 = 1330

Possible for sure-but i doubt it--besides-gold has been performing marvelous as all assets deflate against it--

Price really means little against golds buying power

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2012/02/RUT.vs_.RUT-Gold.png

http://grooveshark.com/s/Gold+On+The+Ceiling/4k3MSF?src=5

 

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

My point on comparing the charts is that they are basically identical.  In an environment of runaway deflation I suspect that won't change.  I would stay away from miners, only because I believe they carry considerable counterparty risk in that they can be nationalized.  If I can be detained indefinitely without due process and my have citizenship revoked, all legally, then yes, it can happen here.  I would buy more physical during the deflationary period, but only after my more immediate needs were met as best as I could meet them.  I would be content to carry over some wealth.  I will also be looking at other physical investments such as real estate during this period.  (I know...crazy but better than worthless paper). 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:11 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

I would stay away from miners, only because I believe they carry considerable counterparty risk in that they can be nationalized. 

*******

As always--political risk-

Nationalization is the big one-of course your $ weighting of physical should be much higher than any paper play-but-if the above doesn't happen-miners will outperform everything (% wise) including physical gold and silver-no risk--no reward--

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:22 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

+1.  I absolutely agree with you that if you are going to play the paper markets, then that will be a great way to go.  God bless you, but I am out of there for right now.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:33 | Link to Comment Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

I tend to agree Cheesy.  We still have $1,500,000,000,000,000.00 in derivatives that will be unwound and that will be extremely deflationary for a period of time.  Still, staying in fiat is an extremely dangerous game to play because a 40% overnight devaluation could take place at anytime by the privately held federal reserve.

By the way, there is plenty of gold and silver out there to buy at the moment.  The faltering economy is causing many citizens to sell although many would rather not.  That will change at some point, probably this year and probably overnight.  Timing is extremely difficult to predict but odds are for the TSHTF by the end of 2013!

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:50 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

+1  Timing is the most difficult part, Tuco, but watch for dollar strength on "flight to safety" Euro weakness.  Paper dollars will spend well then, and spend them then you should.  Stock market weakness will coincide and that will also be a tell.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

We continue to add to our stash whenever we can. Hard to get gold below 1,700 lately so may just add at these levels. And I hope no one here has their stash with any broken, corrupt bank. Common sense prevails here. As crazy as it seems, Greece will get a few more months, somehow to continue to rape its people. The stock market does not want to go down so shorting makes little sense. 

Until the printing press is taken away from Ben, liquidity is the name of the game and it needs somplace to go. A 1 year CD at .86% does not qualify. So they bid them up, day after day. Until.....

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:40 | Link to Comment rickadoh
rickadoh's picture

What................? yahoo finally catching up?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/12-scary-debt-facts-for-2012.html

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 00:45 | Link to Comment green_dreams
green_dreams's picture

Bitchez, bitchez

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 01:58 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

Starve the Beast!  Keep stacking.  Price goes up, price goes down...  So?

If you can't:

1.  Quit your job (starve the Tax man)

2.  Move abroad (see 1 above)

Then:

1.  Cut your expenditures (starve the Tax man)

2.  Buy physical (keep stacking, protect yourself, your family)

3.  Enjoy your family, live life...

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:11 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

Silence Peasants! You must repurchase debt to grow the global economy. I don't intend to hear your weak minds discuss Gold & Silver.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Newager23
Newager23's picture

I agree that the time to buy PMs will likely be when the S&P breaks 666. I would expect silver to be around $20 and gold around $1300. It's going to be an ugly deflationary event where all assets get slammed down.

If this event happens -- and I'm expecting it either this year or next -- it will likey be the last time to purchase PMs cheap. Twelve months after this event, I'm expect gold to be over $2500. It will be the mother of all rallies. Gold and silver should explode in value as people finally run to safety.

I could be wrong, I usually am with predictions, but I have had the trend right. And everything points to some type of blow off rally in the PMs. This bull market is more than 10 years old, and we have not had a mania phase. It would be really weird, if this bull market just fizzles out. That does not seem possible. Especially when the central banks are printing money like banshees, and debt is an enormous problem in the US, EUR, and Japan.

I don't see anything killing this gold rally except some form of global collapse leading to some form of complete reorganization of our economic system. Which I see as inevitable. The reason I see this looming collapse is the reduction in the supply of oil -- the lifeblood of the economy.

This week there was a story out of KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), that they are going to spend $1.2 billion to produce 100,000 bpd from an old field. That is a huge story because of the overtones. It reveals that they they don't have anything else, and that they are on the verge of declining production. They used to get 100,000 bpd from a single well, now they are going get that from an entire field. Wow, that is the best they can do? We're toast. No oil. No growth. It's that simple. And without growth, you can pretty much guess were things are headed.

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:25 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

Sure, gold at $1300 and silver at $20...  Anything is possible.  Question is, will you be able to buy any?  That's the wrinkle in all these analyses of price drops.  Heck, FOFOA goes even further and anticipates a severe decline (can't even type the number since it is so hard to fathom) and Prechter gets his 15 minutes of fame.  But, try to buy some at that price...  Not likely.  The eventual price of gold will boggle even the most optimistic among us.  Keep stacking...

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:31 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

The next question is will you be allowed to keep the gold you have or use it to purchase the things you need?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:44 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

Oh, you've heard the stories of all the boating accidents, right?  Yes, me too...  Tragic how that tackle box filled with my precious fell overboard.  I didn't find out until we returned to the pier; too late.  Long period of mourning...

The dollar isn't going anywhere.  It will still be out medium of exchange, for now, for the future.  What will change is the store of wealth.  That is what gold is for.  When you are ready to employ some of your wealth for personal consumption or capital gain, you will convert from gold to the medium of exchange...  Same as it ever was (except we don't end up screwing the savers in favor of the debtors as the current system does; and this will be global).  Obviously it goes beyond this and is why I mentioned FOFOA for a more detailed review of the "Freegold" concept.  Highly recommended.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:58 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

FOFOA goes even further and anticipates a severe decline (can't even type the number since it is so hard to fathom) and Prechter gets his 15 minutes of fame.

*********

Prechter/Denninger for just two--measure gold from 1980 to 2000-

They never measure from 1971-2012-

They look at the 30's without going back to the 1922 manipulation of gold standard and so they come up with their bogus calls-

They both claim gold has little industrial or jewelry demand and both are correct-

So i wonder then--do they ever ask themselves--wtf is it--that's driving the price-with no public participation-

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:08 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

"So i wonder then--do they ever ask themselves--wtf is it--that's driving the price-with no public participation-"

Ain't that a no kidder!  Keep stacking...

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:58 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

IRON SHIELD, you hit it..  Who is going to sell physical at those prices in the midst of a severe deflation very few and only very weak hands.  The snap back as even the sheep start to get it will be epic.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:28 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

I like some gold but not much. Here is why. The Bankers are literally stealing wealth and have the backing of the alphabet soup agencies. Jerry Corsey(sp) just got fired for revealing HSBC's money laundering operations for violations of the Patriot Act. The US is being ruled by a mob of criminals. So, if you have a lot of gold those are the dudes your going to have to hide it from. If you can hold the gold outside of US jurisdiction then it might make sense to me. I'm staying away from gold for now.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:00 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

Yes, the corruption is brazen and apparently unstoppable; but that is on the surface.  Underneath, change is happening, one person at a time.  An awakening of sorts that leaves me optimistic for the future of the US and the global community.  A return to a more sustainable growth cycle that will help to lift many from their current malaise.  Sure, there will be pain involved.  Good things don't happen because you will them but because someone did something.  One person at a time... 

I believe gold will be a part of the solution for the future and the US banksters and elites (and I use that term quite loosely) cannot stop this progress...  They are dying on the vine with every attempt to alter this progression, revealing themselves for the monsters they really are.  And each of us; friend, neighbor, citizen should turn our backs on these vile psychopaths and ostracize them...  They will slip back beneath the murky waters from whence they came (and who knows, justice might be served on them as well).  Time tells all...  I remain optimistic.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 04:06 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

An awakening of sorts that leaves me optimistic for the future of the US and the global community. 

I don't share your optimism.  I believe millions of people wil die in upcoming wars between the massively imperialistic USA and other nations around the world getting tired of it.

Obviously no single nation can come against the America and prevail.  So it will be an alliance of nations, and they'll come against America in the one area America is weak, America's nuclear arsenal, but more specifically America's lack of will to use that arsenal.

Yes, the coming worldwide war will be thermonuclear, and America will be defeated, because America's cowardly leaders cannot push the launch buttons, and other nuclear powers know it.

What happens after that is anyone's guess.  But the world bully will be put down once and for all.

That's why someone's plan to survive in America with hard assets and rural off-grid living isn't a viable plan.  Leaving America is the only viable plan.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 04:58 | Link to Comment IronShield
IronShield's picture

I don't know what your basis is for that comment.  Thank goodness we don't have that desire.  I don't think America will be defeated, I believe the oligarchs are the ones facing defeat.  Americans, for the most part, are a good people that want to go on with their lives, enjoy the fruits of their labor, and time with family and friends. This is a new beginning...  I remain optimistic.

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:21 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Whatever, but there's never been a time in human history where just the oligarchs were defeted ...except the French Revolution perhaps.

There won't be any such revolution in America, so other nations will do what American's won't do.  

But their solution to America's oiligarch problem will take out most of the American population too.

...which is morally just considering most Americans insist on being the slave power base for those oligarchs, hence their destruction will rob those oligarchs of their power base.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:32 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

IMO the recipy for revolution is when part of the corrupt elite starts to be so cocky, so blatant and so sure of themselves that they start to prey on more peaceful parts of the elite. MF Global was not enough.

cranky, you still owe me an explanation on the other thread!

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:43 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Nope, don't owe you anything.  When I decide to answer the question I will.  Still have that thread up in my browser waiting to see if anyone else wants to take a stab at answering the question.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:08 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Tantalizing as your avarar and cranky as your nickname...

Ok, ok. I will wait. ;-)

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:37 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

IMO the recipy for revolution is when part of the corrupt elite starts to be so cocky, so blatant and so sure of themselves that they start to prey on more peaceful parts of the elite.

I believe that hope is a false hope. 

If a revolution hasn't happened by now, it won't happen at all.

And no, it won't happen when food becomes scarce either.   People will just start fighting each other for whatever food is available. 

Food shortage never has caused a revolution against the ruling class.  Not any time in recorded history.  It always results in people fighting among themselves and general breakdown of society.  Anarchy. 

You can't bring a revolution together during anarchy.  It's impossible.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:00 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

It is not a hope, it's an empirical & historical observation.

At some point, self-feeding decay & corruption is too much even for those who profit indirectly and tolerate it. This is the spark for every societal and political change or revolution.

Starving masses can be part of the kindling, not more.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:19 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

You're saying one part of the oligarchy will overthrow the other part, then restore America to no oligarchy. 

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:22 | Link to Comment TheAntiGov
TheAntiGov's picture

Wasn't the French revolution about not being able to afford bread? And the country lapsed into famine and financial ruin? Marie-Antoinettes' celebrated and callous remark on being told that the people had no bread: “Let them eat cake!” was her reply. Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette were executed by guillotine!

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

COG is wrong, hunger will cause the proles to rise up against the elite this is a very different situation from French revolution.  The massive entitlements decline will leave no other target and the media at that point will not swing the beast away, only force will be useful at that point.  The key for us is to be prepared to harness the beast.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 21:30 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

The French Revolution was about way more than bread shortage.  At Louis 16th trial many charges were read against him.

That was then and this is now.  Today there simply isn't the collective will to storm DC, plus there's not just a king and queen to go after, there's hundreds of elite you'd have to go after, and all those elite are protected by multiple rings of security, you'd be gunned down before you even get close to them. 

In fact they wouldn't even be there.  They'd be whisked off to some other location long before you got there.

The king and queen of France never gave any serious thought to mobs of people storming the palace. 

I can assure you the elite in DC have given much thought and planning to such a possibility.  They'd be way better prepared.

Today a french style revolution is not only a societal impossibility, it's a tactical impossibility too.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:30 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  You think?

They have very complex evacuation plans and the means to achieve them lol.  Tons of personnel whose sole job is to protect these guys no matter what and not ask questions.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:57 | Link to Comment Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

The oligarchs will remain evil (and empowered by you) because your goodness blinds you to their true nature.  Who's weaker, the liar or the person who believes the lies?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:34 | Link to Comment reutersanalyst
reutersanalyst's picture

http://capital3x.com/think-tank/performance-week-18-feb-2012-879-pips/

 

C3X performance. They are Gold long again after milking it from 1900 to 1580 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 02:54 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

Goldbugs and their endless waiting games...when you guys are going to realize gold standards are obsolete.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:22 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Goldbugs and their endless waiting games...when you guys are going to realize gold standards are obsolete.

*************

Waiting?

The price action keeps goldbugs from "waiting" because it's "happening" if you actually knew how to interpret the tons of charts and data that fly across this board constantly-

How about you prove your case with some concrete evidence-instead of your 1 liner drivel?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 05:49 | Link to Comment stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

tim73,

geithner? is that you?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:34 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

when you guys are going to realize gold standards are obsolete.

Ahhhh the real motivation comes out now :)

You're anti-gold-standard.  That makes you a sold-out suckup to the elite.

There is NO valid argument against a gold standard.  None.  Zero.

That's why you suckups never give any reasons to support your position.  Because there are none.

Actually there IS an argument against a gold standard:  It doesn't work.

A gold "standard" is not a workable solution.   We had a gold standard in 1933.  What happened?  They changed it from $20 / oz to $35 / oz overnight.

Gold is a workable solution.  And silver.  And anything else with universal intrinsic value.

The only way a paper substitute works is when that paper is a redeemable claim check on a specific amount of gold or silver or whatever, and the amount is printed on the claim check just like any claim check states what it's a claim check for, including the amount.

That's not a gold standard.   You're not using gold as a reserve to somehow give a paper currency some sort of value.

That's gold, pure and simple. 

The paper is merely a claim check for gold.  The paper has no value by itself, just like any claim check has no value by itself.

The only value is in the gold (or silver or whatever) it's redeemable for. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:20 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

gold standards are obsolete?

No, they are kept obsolete by the unbacked global reserve currency dominance, which was made possible by the internationally gold-backed 1933-style dollar and WW2.

If something happens to the currently unbacked 1971-style dollar, then "something new" - for example a new international deal - might arise.

Reenter the scene: the SDR proposals and gold.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 16:11 | Link to Comment grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

Eleven consistent up years has not been a bad wait. I wish I'd paid more attention to the chart before 2008.

Congrats to anyone who have been buying since the dot.com bubble burst.

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:55 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Gold and silver are not ends in themselves.  Storing wealth outside the reach of a central bank is end goal.

Gold and silver are two ways to do that, of many ways to store wealth outside the reach of a central bank

...which is why central banks hate gold and silver and anything else that can store wealth outside their thieving reach

...which reveals the real purpose of central bank issued currency, a way to steal wealth from people and give that wealth to whomever they want, corrupt irresponsible governments mostly, corrupt irresponsible banks secondarily, and other crony insiders thirdly.

Our Fed traditionally has given most of the wealth stolen from the American people to corrupt irresponsible banks, but in '08 started giving more of it to our corrupt irresponsible government to keep it going.

And it's not just the American people Fed steals wealth from, it's everybody around the world who holds FRNs or FRN-denominated assets like Treasuries for example, which are promises to pay FRNs sometime in the future ...after the Fed has diluted the value of those FRNs significantly (which is how the Fed steals wealth from everybody holding FRNs and FRN-denominated assets).

That's the grand plan.  The overall plan.  Keeping FRNs as the world reserve currency everybody uses so the Fed can steal wealth from everybody.

It's why the Fed doesn't want anyone holding gold nor silver nor any other store of value.  The Fed can't steal wealth from people when they're holding gold or silver or any other store of value Fed can't print more of.

People flocking to Treasuries because they think Treasuries are a safe store of value are stepping right in Fed's wealth-stealing trap.  Ditto for any other FRN-denominated asset like bank CDs for example, MBS for another example.

What they're worth today doesn't matter.  They'll lose value as time goes along.

For example Treasuries purchased 4 years ago have lost 40% of their base value.

When FRNs lose their reserve currency status, Treasuries and other FRN-denominated assets will suddenly be worthless or nearly worthless.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:23 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

These pathetic goldbugs here would lose their precious gold stash within first month in real Mad Max world. Or when they run out of AA batteries, bullets and Gatorade.

They do not know how to hunt, how to trap animals, how to farm, how to give first aid, how make your own weapons, how to recognize which plants are edible, how to prepare an animal for eating, how to build a shelter, how to treat snake or other animal bites or tens of other key survival skills. Those skills are really golden, not the gold itself.

A real survivalist does not need gold and sees that as any other form of money, a useful tool for trading. These goldbugs are just deluding themselves with their bravado gold and anti-goverment talk.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:29 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

A real survivalist does not need gold and sees that as any other form of money, a useful tool for trading.

********

Are you from Idaho?

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:43 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

If the supermarkets are empty what good is your gold stash going to do for you? If there is nobody to trade with or the ones willing to trade are black market dealers and/or criminals. The minute they hear you got a stash somewhere some of them will come after you.

The main dream of goldbugs is somekind of governmental collapse and going back to some weird Wild West combined with post WWIII Mad Max world. Where you and your family are on your own.

In that situation the skills are vital, not what you own. Gold and your gear can be stolen but not your skills.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:52 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

I'll ask you this-

Why is it you gold haters "assume" that a goldbug can't grow a garden or can preserves or shoot and gut out an animal?

That is a really strange one--

Try bribing a boarder guard with a chunk of jerky-or a jar of peaches-

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 05:19 | Link to Comment Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

They think we're dumber than they are, and since they're pretty fucking stupid, they're convinced we can't even wipe our own asses, muchless survive without the government telling us which toilet to crap in and what lightbulb will sit under while doing it.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Try bribing a boarder guard with a chunk of jerky-or a jar of peaches-

 

I'm pretty sure twinkies or ho-ho's would work.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 05:10 | Link to Comment Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

Lemme guess, you listen to NPR everyday don't you?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:00 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

Tim, if the supermarkets are empty then anyone with food will become a target, to include you and your farm. Gold is a means to transport wealth into the future where civilization begins to trade again. From here to there a lot of us believe will be a period of collapse where families will have to rely on stored food and the skills you mention. The gold isn't for trading during that time period. Most of us here have emphasized that the first things to acquire are food, fuel, guns/ammo, and if you have the land for it then get a garden going. AFTER these are acquired then convert excess FRNs into PMs. Yes, skills are vital, but you are misunderstanding the role this community places on PMs, IMO.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:51 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

tim73 has a valid point and should be listened to.

Just the fact he is able to get online chatting easily is impressive.

I hope they never catch you bro....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46427869/#.Tz521FFUmPY

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:54 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

Sorry to disappoint you but real survivalist do not leave that kinds of messes. Always clean up and possibly burn it all up, even leftovers from a can of spam. Food left behind teach animals to go to the trash cans eventually, instead of relying their natural hunting skills. Eazy Pizza for them. Not good at all.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:39 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

jeezus you're an idiot.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 04:10 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

They do not know how to hunt, how to trap animals, how to farm, how to give first aid ...

None of those skills will matter when America is nuked back to the stone age.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:16 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it's already happening OG from Fukushima. My first love of learning back when i was younger was nuclear chemistry--and the lesson then was pretty simple: don't ever fool around with the stuff. The chemists stood opposed to the bomb makers--the number crunchers and the physicists--almost all of whom died of cancer because they handled the stuff like it was Play-do. I'd like to think "the bean counters have improved things"--but in fact they've made it all worse. Nuclear power is not justified IN ANY WAY to me now. What's now RAMPING UP from Fukushima is making Chernobyl look like Play-do. THIS IS NO JOKE! And so far the the silence of the Americans at the UN...let alone to the Americans on the West Coast... to start bringing this matter to the attention of the world IS A CRIME OF MASSIVE PROPORTIONS. The deaths from this event are already appalling...but compare nothing to the "why me worry" attitude and outright LIES of the Japanese government...not just to their people...but to you and me as well.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:16 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

When I say "nuked back to the stone age", I'm not talking about background radiation from Fukushima nor anything of the sort.  I'm talking about direct thermonuclear destruction of most of America.

And no, I don't agree with your feeling that nuclear power has to be a deadly thing. 

Back when nuclear power first got going they basically had two options, Thorium and Uranium.  

A Thorium reactor is inherently safe.  It takes positive control to keep the reaction going.  If control is lost, the reaction stops on its own.

Unranium is just the opposite.  It's inherently dangerous.  It takes positive control to stop the reaction. If control is lost, the reaction continues and may run away completely, like happened at TMI and Chernobyl ...and Fukushima now.

So why did they choose Uranium?  Simple.  It produces Plutonium for nuclear bombs, the only purpose Plutonium has.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:23 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1T India is investing heavily in Thorium reactors

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:15 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

+1 your right about thorium, dead on..  But a massive nuke hit on America, by whom, the consortium of countries you mentioned?  COG just becasue MAD is not a publicized policy of the US do you not think it is still valid?  No one rational commits suicide with an ICBM launch against the U.S., one Ohio class, just one guarantees this. 

Now if you mentioned covert smuggled hits or a disguised source EMP hit okay, but full on nuke strikes not gonna happen, other folks like to breath too.  Hard to enjoy being king of the world when the entire thing is a hissing slag heap.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 17:53 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Obama announced this week ...in a public televised speech carried by all the networks...  he wants to reduce America's thermonuclear arsenal 80%.

He's backing down in the face of a growing Asian Nuclear Alliance consisting of Russia (biggest thermonuclear arsenal on the planet), China, India, and Pakistan, all 4 firmly on Iran's side, having clearly warned America do NOT invade Iran.

Obama is engaging in nuclear appeasement, hoping he can invade Iran and keep it to conventional warfare.

He won't succeed.  It will go thermonuclear.  Guaranteed.

When that time comes Obama and his cowardly cronies won't have the guts to push the buttons.  America will be wiped out for all practical purposes.

And let's hope they turn that shitty little strip of desert called Israel to glass and ash while they're at it.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 00:40 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

this is absurdly wrong on so many levels

do you idiots think that they built ALL THESE reactors for plutonium when they needed just a FEW for it? 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 03:26 | Link to Comment Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

I just love it, when the euro is weak and the dollar is strong and the markets are tanking, they point to "o how great the dollar is!!! AMERICA THE BEST!!"

but

Then when the Euro is strong, and the dollar is weak and the markets are sky rocketing due to devaluation, " O how strong the stock market is!!!! HOW GREAT THE FINANCIALS!!!" HAHAHAHAHA

 

Yet they should be reporting respectively.... that THE EURO SUCKS AND OUR STOCKS SUCK, OUR DOLLAR STINKS AND TEH STOCK MARKET AINT MUCH BETTER! XD

 

 

I think ill stick with silver and paper cash stuffed under the bed till a PROPER investment opportunity arives, the way it stands, id rather take my money to the casino and atleast HAVE FUN and FREE DRINKS + Hotel Rooms while I lose it... and who knows maybe ill double it like last time! XD

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 04:12 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Ancient Chinese Proverb... Where profit is, loss lies hidden nearby.

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=9344

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=9344

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 04:46 | Link to Comment suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

Screw the bankers.  I'm sticking with white metal.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 05:02 | Link to Comment Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Great video, but the voice sounds like one of the pump-and-dump scam artists at NIA, so be weary of any advice you find at futuremoneytrends.com

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:07 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Not even Robo is a bear on gold as I am. You will not get any argument with me about "gold is money" (i reminded people of that simple truth on Seeking Alpha years ago--and it is now repeated daily on the tele)--in no way do i have a problem with folks who buy gold, hold gold--folks who have have made a ton of money in it. Indeed as one of the "4 riders of the Apocalypse" (gold, oil, treasuries and the dollar) "pure financial hell has unfolded with almost perfect being" the last few years. Having said that...not a day goes by when what was famously termed back in the 90's "the hedgehog trader" doesn't find another little nugget of his own to start digging for. Since the implications for a consistently rising equity space is for liquidity to be drained from the financial system gold is in fact "standing opposed to all that." When one looks at the performance of gold mining stocks clear warning signals are flashing. When liquidity driven money (aka "big money) starts looking for growth instead of yield then...AT LEAST IN DOLLAR TERMS...you need to be careful here about sudden "air pockets" in the price of something dominated by Central Banks and Governments. In short: "all that's needed is an economic recovery of even the most modest proportions" and "cash money suddenly has valued returned to it" and the price of gold goes down.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:14 | Link to Comment jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

In short: "all that's needed is an economic recovery of even the most modest proportions" and "cash money suddenly has valued returned to it" and the price of gold goes down.

**************

As if an economic recovery was some small obstacle that governments printing money can achieve--

I wouldn't expect that to happen for a decade or two-

First of all-credit must flow and  for credit to flow-people must have jobs and all outstanding debt must be unwound before that can happen and then a recovery is possible-but the problem is-there are no more bubbles to blow that involve the public and until there is-gold will outperform-

Are you forgetting that cash is trash during a credit inflation?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:42 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

reminds me of the hunt brothers "any stupid mother fucker can run a printing press"

nice video

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 06:48 | Link to Comment zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

did Kramer really say that? "dont move your money from Bear, don't be silly" lol what a douche

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:07 | Link to Comment Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

The other night he was screaming about how silver is the poor man's gold and he doesn't want you to buy silver. He wants you to buy GLD.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 07:18 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Biflation and deflation and the hedge of gold; for a blog site called "zero hedge", its ironic to advocate "hedge by putting ALL your eggs in the gold/silver basket".

I hope the irony is not lost on all of you; there are somethings that you can't hedge against : its called totalitarian rule, gold or no gold hedge. That is the current momentum of this Oligarchy world.

Lets get our priorities right. Not saying don't hedge with gold. But fight to get your COUNTRY back and its republican values and its democratic method. Means n Ends. Essence of civilization. The warmongers will not win; you can bet on that! 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:04 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

But fight to get your COUNTRY back and its republican values and its democratic method.

Sorry, not gonna happen.

No nation has ever "cleared the bums out" and restored its government like Americans hope will happen.

The French Revolution came close, but it wasn't long until France was right back to semi-oligarchical rule doing the same shit the revolution was supposed to stop.

Ditto here in America.  Not long after the Revolutionary War we were back to banker rule, central bank, fiat currency, all that.

Of course there won't be another revolution in America.  Just not gonna happen.  Americans are way too soft and way too ideologically fragmented.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:23 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

Geezer is right. The culture has changed, through reeducation and propaganda.

Few know what 'republican values' are, and if they did, they wouldn't want them.

Better to start your own country with like-minded colleagues. This one's all pod people, and it's too late to reprogram them.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:43 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Correct.

Plus we have a situation now where 50% of the population feeds at the government trough in one way or another.  Those people want to preserve the status quo.  They would oppose any sort of change that would take away that government feeding trough.

When 50% of the population adamantly supports the status quo, there's no way a revolution would ever come together, much less succeed.

People argue that the Revolutionary War only had 5% of the population's support.  That's correct. 

But the rest were more or less neutral.  They weren't feeding at the government trough and adamantly supporting the status quo like we have now.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:34 | Link to Comment riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

You do not understand the source of power. People who feed at the government trough have no power. During the revolution lots of Americans were dependent on British trade and mercantilism probably over 50%. 

You keep believing that the  boomers will rise up and fight the 20-40 year olds who have become indentured servants to their largess and failed philosophies.  

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

COG, see my post above your wrong only one target and they know it.  Why do you htink the quick implementation of NDAA, and associated police state militarization.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:37 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Never say never. Remember, if the depression of the 30s return the grapes of wrath will flourish country-wide, the Rubicon of revolt will become a rivulet to cross.

Just look at the videos of Syria today, Libya yesterday, and you know that the river of no return for those impoverished  by dictatorship becomes an inevitable crossing, when you have no place else to go. The bell then tolls and we know its for all of us.

History repeats and a nation of effetes refinds the blood of their predecessors, running like irrepressible torrents in their veins.

Courage and fortitude never die in a people. Be it at a terrible price.  It may take ten years, it all depends on how the Oligarchy bends, trends or mends. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:51 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Nope, not gonna happen.  Forget it.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:20 | Link to Comment riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

ok, if you say so. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:17 | Link to Comment riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

It doesn't take a majority of Americans. Look at the revolution I believe less than 20% or so were commited to it the others were fence sitters waiting to see who won. 

I wouldn't underestimate the people you do not hear from. There are millions of Americans who are hardworking, libetry loving and ready to fight for their rights. 

It took 20 some years and lots of encrouaching tirany before this group got together during the revolution. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 08:22 | Link to Comment Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

You must accept one thing about gold: it is a bet against the government.  We live in the age of all-encompassing government, so betting against it is not to be done frivolously.  The government can mess up your day if you go against it.  In my opinion, you can't beat the government, so I'm betting with them and buying crony companies and treasuries.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:07 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Yep, that's a good point.  It's not wise to bet against the government (unless you're ready to go all the way and defeat that government, which ain't gonna happen in America).

We know the government is against citizens having gold, and most of us understand why, the only way the Fed can steal wealth from you is via FRNs and FRN-denominated assets.

It's very likely the government will impose taxes on gold ownership at some point.  I suspect gold taxes are hidden somewhere in Obamacare.  That's my bet.

They may not confiscate it, but they'll very likely tax it to the point where you lose any benefit of having it.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:32 | Link to Comment Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

Probably there will be a tax on all tangible property along with export controls.  We'll soon have the Department of Homeland Security peeking into your insurance declarations like they peek into your bank transactions presently.  Of course many gold holders will hide thier gold from all this, but at that point they become criminals.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:11 | Link to Comment xela2200
xela2200's picture

Don't worry about becoming a criminal. Laws become meaningless when you loose any due process. Besides, the US government has been making criminals of its citizens for decades.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:04 | Link to Comment Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Crony companies? How did Solyndra work out for you?

You presume to know that the 'Government' will be successful. For the last ten years I have been betting that the Central Planners will be incompetent and stupid. They have not disappointed me.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:14 | Link to Comment Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

Didn't go for anything solar (I'm not crazy!), but my GE is working out splendidly, as is my TLT.  I agree the government is stupid and will fail, eventually.  But that day is not yet on the horizon.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:42 | Link to Comment Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

 

But that day is not yet on the horizon.

The 'Reserve Currency Status' is key to the above statement. Without the 'Status', USTs are ass-wipe. The video was correct in that Foreigns are not stupid and are moving away from the USD as a 'Reserve'.

Niall Ferguson makes some excellent historical observations on the collapse of fiat currencies and empires. Much quicker than one would think.

 In any case, good luck to everyone in trying to stay ahead of it all. We are going to need it.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:29 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"I agree the government is stupid and will fail, eventually.  But that day is not yet on the horizon."

No doubt people said the same thing about the Soviet Union a year or two before it collapsed.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Scroto Gaggins
Scroto Gaggins's picture

Scroto says;  choke on it...your gold that is.  Silver bitchez. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Scroto Gaggins
Scroto Gaggins's picture

Scroto says;  choke on it...your gold that is.  Silver bitchez. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:45 | Link to Comment tim73
tim73's picture

I just do not get these folks here hoping for somekind of government collapse. What should then replace it? The strongest shouting man? Some Stalin like real motherfucker?

Or a bunch of private companies? Yeah, that is working so "wonderfully" in healthcare in USA. If the sickness does not kill you the hospital bill will.Now even US military is going to be privatized, Iraq and Afghanistan are full of these soldiers of fortunes already, ex-US military. Just wait when those mercenaries come home to "keep the peace".

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:26 | Link to Comment Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

No sane person 'hopes' for a Government collapse. But, no sane person can also believe current situation is sustainable.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:21 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

So you'd rather they slow kill us instead? Make it impossible to climb the latter or become productive, thereby condemning an entire lifespan to poverty and despair. Make it impossible for young people to have children of their own. Is that good for you?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 09:51 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

The end of the film, where the media talking heads and their carefully chosen market experts are all calling it sooo wrong was my favorite part of the video. Now that’s entertainment. Instead of another show emphasizing the naivete, ignorance, stupidity, and repulsiveness of lowly criminals, I would love to see a weekly prime time show dedicated to the blundering of this group; their white collar partners in crime . Surely the media could sacrifice one of their seemingly endless streams of reality shows, talent competitions, and award ceremonies to squeeze it in. I’d watch it (OK I’d DVR it) if it came on at 2:00 p.m. It wouldn’t cost much to produce, there’s and endless supply of source material out there.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:01 | Link to Comment BlankfeinDiamond
BlankfeinDiamond's picture

I'm physical plutonium. Got a couple of spent fuel rods in my closet.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

craddle of democracy run by techno-bankers.
.
The Billionaires’ Brokered GOP Convention with BBC’s Greg Palast
Infowars.com
February 18, 2012
http://www.infowars.com/the-billionaires-brokered-gop-convention-with-bb...

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Give your life, but don’t give your opinion…

Military Warns Active Duty, Reservists, and Retirees Not To March for Ron Paul

Posted by Karen Kwiatkowski on February 17 | The LRC Blog

Adam Kokesh has a copy of a letter sent by the Navy's legal beagles warning all of us not to attend the Veterans for Ron Paul March in DC on February 20th. I'm attending this march, and I expect many of us will be represented there. The military requires us to take an oath to defend and support the Constitution, but God forbid we be seen actually supporting the one presidential candidate who lives by that code, and honestly believes in that oath. Of course, Adam correctly thanked the Pentagon for helping to get the word out about the rally — and they didn't mention the after-party, but it sounds magnificent.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/105961.html

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:19 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/17/weekly-intel-drop/
While We Still Can…
by Gordon Duff, Senior Editor
.
featuring judge nepalitano's last broadcast at fox nuesss.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Regarding developments in the Iran/Israel alleged crisis, the U.S. airwaves are dominated by pro-Israel viewpoints. It’s become very worrisome that a rush to war is leaving out critical truth reporting and reasoned analysis. In the run up to the disastrous Iraq War there were voices of reason; one of those was Pat Buchanan. Is it significant that in this approach to another war in the Mid East his microphone has been silenced?

“After an incessant clamor from the left” that Buchanan’s “access to the microphones of MSNBC would be an outrage against decency, and dangerous,” Buchanan was fired from MSNBC/Comcast/GE this past week.

At MSNBC for ten years, it was Buchanan’s recent book that cost him his job, Suicide of a Superpower, which traces America’s disintegration. Said Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) who has sought to have Buchanan censored for 22 years: "Buchanan has shown himself, time and again, to be a racist and an anti-Semite.”

Another similar group, Color of Change, claims Buchanan’s book espouses a ‘white supremacist ideology,” taking particular umbrage at the title of Chapter 4, The End of White America.

A Human Rights Campaign self-identified as “America's leading voice for lesbians, bisexuals, gays and transgendered people” claims that Buchanan's “extremist ideas are incredibly harmful to millions of LBGT people around the world,” and he must be silenced.

This orchestrated clamor made it possible for MSNBC to shed Buchanan’s powerful analyses – just as the Zionists did what was necessary in Iowa when it looked as if Ron Paul was going to win the Iowa caucus.

This entailed, according to reports, “having a Fox news reporter ask Paul if he had had sex with Rick Perry, having the Jewish Republicans disinvite Paul from their debate, and a sudden infusion of Zionist money into Rick Santorum’s pro-Israel, bomb-Iran campaign once it looked as if he was a viable candidate …”

Zionist money has triumphed in America for far too long.

These people are on the edge of criminality.  They take the nation’s currency, they take the nation’s business and regulators; they take the nation’s entertainment/communications/ free speech; they take the nation’s public education system and bend it to their philosophy, and they are taking higher education and university research.

In short, they take too much; they’re tearing up the nation’s fiber and morals by controlling and censoring its communication; they are ease dropping and using blackmail and police state tactics for their own purposes; and they are trying to control the U.S. military around the globe.

Americans cannot afford to have Zionists in charge any longer. It is too much. They are trying to make war on the world, putting the interests of Likud Israel over the interests of Americans.  It’s time, overtime, for Americans to wake up to the danger.

Thankfully, this economy is going to be stronger than their centralized economic plans. This economy is based on freedom, on the millions of people going to work every day hoping for a better life; and they’re not going to settle for any Greek or German treatment. This is a society getting wacked hard by these people, by their thought control and economic subjugation. I see a powerful backlash waiting in the wings; they cannot make this destruction work much longer. Already, their economic system is blowing up in their faces. And they’ve nowhere to go from here.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

if i may add, in my opinion, the political parties
in the usa have become little more than sheep with
their licud shepard directing them to feed on their
young and each other.
( think their style of fiat money )
even the population of israel
realizes that the zionist and fascist likud party is
suffering from some form of degenerative zombie,
gray matter consuming affliction, the neo-con job
crime of the century in progress. and this has nothing
to do with pro-semitism or anti-semitism. it has to do
with genocide, murder, international crimes long ago
identified by the conventions of geneva, pillaging,
human slavery by other means and the same old means,
looting, fixing laws and burying laws in laws to condone
and conceal crimes. it has to do with enforcing a
system of crime and calling it a system of laws, it can't
stand because it lacks the integrity to capture the human
heart and the essential bonds that are forged from that union.
it is the difference between basing one's life on fear
vs love. who would exchange their love for the fear of the
world? those of the bunker mentality wishing to infect everyone
with that mentality and profit from the destruction of humanity
in the process, in the end all they have are demands and their
only means of sustenance are violence, destruction and threats
of violence as tools of social control. their paradigm is
a failed endeavor before it has even begun. children can see it.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 14:32 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Absolutely!  And powerfully put! blindman.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The ironic thing is this... In America, while their propaganda campaign has largely succeeded in pushing "whitey" down, the END GAME (with population demographics), will be that America is full of Mexicans & other Central Americans, and maybe blacks who breed for the welfare state...

What's going to happen in 50 years then? Hitler & the holocuast aren't going ring any chords with these people... They wonder why they are 'hated' everywhere they go... It's because they havent learned to STFU...

"Holocaust? We don nee no stinkin' holocaust"

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

Why buy the yellow metal when you can sleep soundly at night knowing your MF Global broker is working for you?

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Lazane
Lazane's picture

the bernank is not an understudy of volker, the men are not analogous, as I recall the time the markets during and after the stead of volker's inflation battle and reagans economic revolution were the most financially prosperous times of my life cheers! now all we seem to be doing is trying to figure out how to hang on to the wealth we thought we had banked for the past 30 years. 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 12:28 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

Binky gives good talking head !  He makes those congressional clowns look "clean and articulate"....Joe Bite Me                "Hoarders ratchet up PM prices !  Speculators are the grist of the manipulator's mill !"....Monedas  2012  Chris Crocker Fan Club Groupie

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:24 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Owning some PM is such a no brainer.

The fact that people are not pouring into them already is a testament to the power of propaganda by MSM. But their lies and false narratives only delay the themarket reaction to reality by short-circuiting positive feedback loops. When things crack up they will switch and go Full Monty into "unexpected" explanations and and blaming the predetermined scapegoats.

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 13:45 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

John Williams, Shadow stats:

 

“There has been no change in the underlying fundamentals.  There is nothing that would support a sustainable turnaround in retail sales, personal consumption or in general economic activity.  There is no recovery, just general bottom-bouncing.  Accordingly, real retail sales levels in the months ahead should become increasingly negative.”

Inflation update:  “The SGS-Alternate Consumer Inflation Measure, which reverses gimmicked changes to official CPI reporting methodologies back to 1980, eased to about 10.5% (10.48% for those using the extra digit) in January 2012, from about 10.6% in December 2011.”

 

Me: At real inflation >10%, it will only take a couple of years to wipe out USD denominated assets. Somebody can do the math better than me, how the real value of 100K will diminish and be destroyed YOY. 

 

 

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Archon7
Archon7's picture

Also bear in mind that 1980 was not the first year that the inflation statistics ever got manipulated.  It was established practice for some time before then, probably all the way back to 1913.

 

year 0 - $100k

year 1 - $90K

year 2 - $81K

year 3 - $72.9K

year 4 - $65.61k

year 5 - $59.05k

year 6 - $53.14k

year 7 - $47.83k

year 8 - $43.05k

year 9 - $38.74k

year 10 - $34.87k

 

at 12% inflation it's worth about $36k in year 8

at 15% inflation it's worth about $38k in year 6

BTW, if John Williams is right, these numbers are meaningless - he's predicting hyperinflation to occur by the end of 2014.  You might get getting 10% inflation per week by then.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 02:20 | Link to Comment MoneyMagician
MoneyMagician's picture

The video makes good points in how different 1980, and 2011 are. Those who say that gold is a bubble don't know real economics in it's deepest form. Instead their whole argument is based purely on vague empiricism, or historical charts, which is why they couldn't figure out the housing bubble in the first place since there was no housing bubble in US history, so of course being robots of vague charts & graphs of historical context, they completely missed the largest economic bubble in decades. This people are not economist, they are speculative traders. Even people who are called economist are more like traders. They don't actually know what's really going on, only based on old number data instead of what moves those numbers, the human actors.

Today we have 0.25% interest rates, with the Federal Reserve looking to create inflation, not decrease inflation. As far as default vs money printing, default is synonymous as money printing which can lead not only to inflation, but hyperinflation. When faced with possibility of default, currency can be replaced. It not, then money printing continues as inflation hedges react positively to the negativity of the actual money. Default is you admit you are out of money, while money printing is you admit you have no money, so you need print more money because you have none. Money printing simply can prolong the situation. In Rome, currency debasement actually lead to new currencies with no hyperinflation, people simply stopped using the currency before the extreme scenario of hyperinflation, however such as the infamous case of Zimbabwe, hyperinflation came to fruition before the currency was actually dumped for sounder currency.

People use deflation & inflation in black & white terms. That a debt crisis is actually inflation, when in fact debt crisis can indeed be a precursor to hyperinflation as what happened in Zimbabwe. In ancient Rome, the Roman Empire, inflation caused early rejection of the currency for sounder currency. As the nearly the same case for Zimbabwe, a debt crisis actually preceeded debasement of currency, and inflation.

With zero interest rates, the Fed expects the economy to grow, however it will grow in a zero interest rate environment, where only those projects seem viable in current conditions, not create viable long term growth with a reductions in savings to create large capital investments, or projects that are simply much more expensive to fund. The attention is clear to spur consumer spending, and that will somehow create growth. I think the Federal Reserve is in a ditch it can't escape, as well as the government. Contrary to the claim of certain politicians who say they dig the economy out of ditch, it's actually deeper in the ditch in fiscal, and monetary terms. Talk about employment all you want, but employment is not a indicator of a productive economy, as interest rates and money supply are manipulated.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment q5251355
q5251355's picture

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