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Gold And Silver Go Vertical
Are investors rotating from the 'safety' of Apple to the new 'safety' of Gold and Silver? Because the next time there is a wholesale margin call, which courtesy of soaring margin debt will likely be today, speculators will have to sell the one asset that is outperforming everything. You guessed it...
Perhaps of note is the jump in USD Libor - GOFO (Gold Lease rates) to its highest since July 2011.
We wonder if this is the reason... Unwind of post Bank Stress Test excess relative to Gold in S&P 500...
Chart: Bloomberg
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i know.
Something is up. Bet some news comes out pretty quickly.
Yeah, I came here to say this same thing. This is totally abnormal price movement to the upside for intraday gold (while the stock market is down too).
Physical gold and silver: The only asset with no counterparty risk.
The podium mic is warming up...... Dare the shills in power announce that their central planning has been an abysmal failure? LOL.
So my physical platinum i have in my possession has counterparty risk?
Pt, for some reason, is un-participating... Weird.
because if a major currency goes good luck explaining to your neighbor why platinum is worth 50x silver.
This guy called the high gold lease rate yesterday, citing Sprott, and for gold to look out above
http://seekingalpha.com/article/486671-rising-gold-lease-rates-indicate-easing-price-manipulation
But why are the oversold miners being sold off in spectacular fashion?
The oversold miners are either anticipating $1200 gold, or they are the steal of the century due to manipulated gold. Judging by the last hours action, maybe its time to pick up miners.
Why you want an additional layer of counterparty risk?
As the price of gold rises, the risk of mine nationalization or confiscation via windfall profits taxes increases.
Its a big order...someone with deep pockets decided now was the time to buy
It's called greed...
It's also called ... premature headlines.
About that vertical ... it does go up and down. Like today.
Because they can be - because herds are extraordinarily stupid and will gladly rationalize chasing any market darling to the moon, or selling any perceived dog (or dog sector) into the basement, regardless of underlying fundamentals, with the fully complicity of an equally moronic analyst community, aided and abetted by the also moronic media.
No, I think there's a much more rational reason why miners continue to underperform the underlying metal price.
Right, so now the analyst community is explaining why huge cash positions and margins, 85% increases in profits (for the producers) and $25/oz in the ground valuations for the juniors are 'rich' and maintaining strong sell reco's. Wait, at some point when the juniors are getting $500+/oz in the ground and the seniors are double or triple what they are today the analysts will be all over them with 'strong buy' reco's and the media will be talking them up like they're the greatest investments ever.
Media and analysts are fucking morons, period, and no matter what the risks are associated with the sector, the blanket selling right now is way past rational, and just another example of the madness (and stupidity) of crowds.
Physical gold has no counterparty risk. Physical gold in the ground has plenty of counterparty risk. As the price of gold rises, miners will continue to underperform due to the anticipated risk of mine nationalization or confiscation by desperate Governments via windfall profits taxes on miners. Buy the metal and sleep better.
No dispute with the wisdom of owning the metals (in personal possession).
Gold/XAU at almost 10. The highest since the fall of 2008.
Gold and silver are still the most underowned and undervalued assets on the planet.
@ Reven, watch South Africa for clues on exactly when this nationalization will happen. I think the ANC communists do it first. Malema has already spoken of appropriating 60% of that "delicious cake."
Good point, and as the price rises, it's still economical for them to keep mining and supplying gold for their local Government overlords.
Miners have expensive middlemen, CEOs to pay, costs (such as oil), hedges, etc.....
If you can buy the pure commodity you believe in, whether it be oil, silver or whatever, that's safer and cheaper imo.
It's interesting to me that Sprott, in that article, would accuse HSBC as being price manipulators, when he used HSBC as one of the lead underwriters for his PSLV.
Also, the lease rates aren't high, at all. The 1M GOFO according to the LBMA is .3616, which is perfectly within the realm of normal rates over the past few years. Perhaps it's a bit higher than the past 6 months, but that doesn't mean much. For example, during 2008, GOFO routinely hit 2.5 which signals total chaos. .36 is nothing.
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
They used MS and RBC.
Go to page 109.
http://www.sprottphysicalsilvertrust.com/documents/Sprott_Physical_Silver_Trust_Prospectus_US.pdf
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
Thanks for confirming i'm right.
Max is 1.71% right in this case.
I never said you weren't right. You were implying that I was wrong, and I wasn't. There were many underwriters, and HSBC was one of them.
Not sure what your point is....
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
The point is HSBC was NOT one of the lead underwriters like you posted.
All that because of the word, "lead"??? Wow, you guys are really stretching to find fault with my posts.
Whether HSBC was chosen to be one of the "lead" underwriters or just one of the underwriters doesn't make a bit a difference to my point.
Nice try.
Since you're so focused on Morgan Stanley, why don't you explain to me why Sprott would choose MS to be the LEAD underwriter when they've been accused of fraud in the silver markets prior to the PSLV launch? Sprott markets himself as the sole Wall Street money manager who stands against all the fraud and manipulation, yet he chooses an underwriter - LEAD underwriter, no less - who's squarely in the middle of it all. That's like finding out that Ron Paul spent millions in frivolous earmarks.... oh, wait a minute.....errrrr
Of all the banks to choose from.....???? Seems sorta weird, eh?
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
Maybe you should have started with MS instead of HSBC?
It also gives away the fact that you have taken the media's explanation for earmarks. Ron Paul is doing his job to appropriate the spending. If it is not appropriated by the elected officials in the Congress it is dished out by the bureaucrats in the executive. He is merely making sure his district receives something for all the taxes they pay in. Earmarks don't add to the budget, they merely appropriate the budget. Booya.
Max - is Sprott and James Turk of GoldMoney buddies?
Turk, a 'Precious Metals man', banks his GoldMoney at HSBC
similarly Peter Schiff, another 'PM Man' banks at JP Morgan
why are our 'saviours' banking with the metals cartel??
If you think someone is going to be your savior, you have problems.
Best to learn to accept arguments on their own merit. Even better, examine the world through the perspective of a rationalist: lesswrong.com
TM - not looking for saviours, just trading guidence ...but that's a problem in the Gold bug community as we seem 'surrounded' by offerings of Buy & Hopium Brothers and get rich schemes ...seductive but looks like every other ramping ever there was
PS. no rationality please, it's not how the world works (thank heavens)
Gold paused... Now having another mini-spike.
Nothing at Drudge. Stocks stable at DJII -182, was down almost 200.
@ kindape, Platinum is not for the neighbors, silver will do just fine for circulating currency.
Speaking to the future: if some radically minded country eliminated their fiat and wanted to base a currency on a precious metal less subject to the manipulation of central banks with a history of price fixing holding large above ground pools, they could do far worse than platinum.
Get some while it's cheap. I could be wrong, but it's still precious.
Cheers,
Beef
Physical platinum ain't a monetary metal my friend. It's still better than paper though.
Platinum Maples are legal tender last time I checked.
Oh sorry, ingrate. Let me rephrase.
Dirt, sod, clay, fresh water, and..... platinum. The only assets with no counterparty risk.
Feel better now? Do central banks hold platinum?
Finally people are getting what gold's actual strength is...
Lack of counter-party risk.
You forgot two important assets, Lead and Tin, no CP risk there
Add in Copper, fulminate of mercury, and propellant of your choice, and you're spot on.
ingrate? do YOU feel better? why dont you chill. the guy was just askin. some of you guys on here gotta realize that You knew nothin once upon a time b4 you knew Everything
Dirt, sod, clay, fresh water all have counter party risk unless you have them packed up int he back of the pickup truck. eminent domain and tax sales mean a tenuous hold on any real estate that big brother thinks it needs from you.
Property is over rated unless you live on it. They can raise property taxes until you can't afford to live there. And if you have a cabin or something you will have squatters in there and they won't be paying you any rent either. Not to mention its not portable and it's not very liquid.
Yup it's hard to up and leave with your land.
Mineral rights to your real property can be a beautiful thing in this age of natural gas and oil discovery (via fracking).
Plus, you can live off your land. People around the world have been doing this for almost 10,000 years.
Agricultural land is critical.
However, food storage, in my humble opinion, is just as critical, if not more. Just stocked up again today. Also ordered my ticket for the Las Vegas guns and ammo show. You can't have enough lead and copper either...
http://foodstoragesuccess.com/
I'm betting O is going to go for a land grab for powers or some manufactured catastrophe will happen over the summer so he can stay in office. Who knows what that will be.
Hmm... Hope you don't have any "physical" SLV, cuzz some people might come to "counter-your-party" sir.
Yep, waiting on the next QE3, LTRO whisper....
There wont be any. The FED figures that it better lose control of the stock market than to lose control over money. Any rumor of QEn will send gold skyrocketing and will doom the State's monopoly over the currency. They won't let that happen and then, there will be no TBTF.
There has to be QEn and there will be. When is the question. We'll get a TWIST, we'll get the Fed doing stealth QE through Europe until finally we get another full blown QE in the States. Going to happen after the election, and i would guess not too long afterward.
I bet there will be QE and then more QE and then some more.
The only thing the Fed has is confidence in the dollar and they just spent a bunch of goodwill to guarantee soverign debt conversions. They've been walking the QE tightrope and the wind picked up. It was time to hold steady and reassess.
Short-term, tax refunds are providing some consumer spending support in lieu of a new Fed infusion.
The Fed can provide charts, mathematical formulas, and staid official statements, but they know they're playing an international game of KerPlunk with great ramifications for average Americans.
Yeap, it most be AL (Anal Leakage).
DoChenRollerBearing - want to bet that it has something to do with Iran?
Today... I am not betting on anything...
dito
The USS Enterprise is steaming right now to join two other flat-top flotillas in the Gulf of Oman. It was due to be retired this year, as our first nuclear powered aircraft carrier. Wonder how much that would cost to decommission. I seem to recollect that the cost to remove the asbestos covering the red iron in the twin towers was going to run in the billions. Wonder if there is a "false flag" similar to the 911 event to avoid spending all that money to decommission the Enterprise. Bonus points for everyone to bring democracy to Iran. Eyes wide shut........
And the MSM (think it was CBS radio) said today (or yesterday... can't pay too much heed to the pabulum, but have to know the party line to distinguish from the truth) that the Enterprise was the SECOND carrier in the Gulf and never ever before has this happened in the history of mankind with Amerika stretching it's talons to protect the innocent, spread democracy and ..... whatthefuckever...
True that ,knukles. What makes this interesting to me is that Iran has bought about 30,000 Sunburn missiles from Russia. The specs on these missiles are interesting, Mach 3 ten feet off the water and then just before impact, pops up to the target. No present acquiring and targeting of the Ageis (sp) guns practices for this. Three flotillas in a bathtub (three flotillas is what I've read), each with a good probability of being sunk by a $50,000 Sunburn missile being very high. Fish in a barrel; at a cost beyond price for the lives destined to be lost. Eyes wide shut......
Something is up. Bet some news comes out pretty quickly.
Someone peaked at AA's numbers?
"Something is up. Bet some news comes out pretty quickly."
sigh I'm always the last to know.
"Something is up. Bet some news comes out pretty quickly."
Would that be an earnings season that will significantly disappoint, or is it war in Persia, or something else (Italian banking insolvency, Spanish civil war, German withdrawal, et al.)?
The market wants the price higher. If JP Morgan didn't use the silver market like it's own personal credit card, we might actually see the true value of silver. When you naked short sell 100 million ounces and the price dips $.20, you make $20 million dollars or so.
FYI: today's drop was over $.60 before the spike that returned it to near where we started today ($.11 down as I write this). A $60 million withdrawal for TPTB. Big swings in price are what they want.
Straying: When people say that the cartel got "stuffed" today, I will say "I wish".
I think I like vertical better than parabolic.
Actually, wouldn't it be the dollar went limp like Bill Clintons penis when Hillary walks in a room?
Ha ha! Very good!
Although kitco.com shows very small effect of the USD on the price of gold. Somebody is buying it.
Hillary makes my balls ascend
It's the Cankles.
I've seen better legs on a piano.
But she really shakes em up at the buildaberger meetings I'll bet.
Mark my words and heed my warning, fiats death won't wait 'til morning..
who's your daddy
Squishi
I often ask minority children that same question.
...and no-one's kicked the shit out of you yet? How disappointing.
Dickhead
My silver's safe, but I lost my buying opportunity in gold last week. :/
Stay away from canoes & whitewater rapids...
Yeah. From $1620 to $1655. You totally missed the bull market. Better sell and buy dollars.
lol
Bitchez are buying?
are the paper whores caving in?
Nope... the clowns of the paper circus have every part of the pitch stitched up
Platinum a little laggy.
Very good sign in my opinion.
Platinum is been treated more like an industrial than investment metal. Silver is the bipolar cousin.
hey, fuu
yep! imo daBoyz are pumping the Au/Plat spread. again
bills and bonds are up huge; the dollar is up but there is major selling against the yer to "keep the lid on"
wheat had been absolutely whip-sawed in the pits, today: straight up, followed by straight down and now back upskie? i'm getting diff prices on diff screens, which isn't the first time; we didn't miss a margin change, did we? Hahaha!
the soybeans had a strong early bid and were up 1% but are now barely in the black; coffee has been decaffeinated and is -7+%; probably due to italianRoasting?
"straight up, followed by straight down and now back upskie? i'm getting diff prices on diff screens, which isn't the first time; we didn't miss a margin change, did we?"
Lot of that going around this week so far.
so i heard...
theMorgue "broke" the CDS index
piece0cake, huh?
i just had a thought that it took slewie almost a year to learn how to play tic-tac-toe up to speed with older kids; i still can't figure why anybody would buy an IOU they needed to insure, but they might know; maybe it is about insurance
insurance. heluva word, brownie!
maybe people shouldn't "invest in bonds they need to buy insurance on"; maybe it is just a good deal for those selling bonds. and insurance
i wonder what they're buying? probably nothing; they're already fully hedged...
"i wonder what they're buying?"
Slaves?
long yokes.
Algos tripped.
But why? What kicked them off? Bad stock declines here and in Europe?
Something probably got leaked. I wouldn't like to be in Europe, Japan, or Iran right now.
I am seeing a lot of scary-looking news coming out of Japan lately, including quakes on Mt. Fuji (dormant for 300 years).
Yr comment re Europe reminds of the ZH article on immigrants leaving Greece to go back home.
Japan is getting ready to print. They are buying oil from a place we told them not to. They might have to shoot down a Korean missile. Global warming seems to be making Japan its main bitch.
Yes, I would say Japan is not the place to be right now or even down wind in California.
Yeah. Both Japan and California have fucked up reactors.
ECB receivables? http://nowandfutures.com/images/ecb_weekly_gold_long_terma.png
Seems to be correlated with the strikes in India coming to an end, but will it be enough for a new rally? I doubt it at this time.
Long term bullish, short term bearish here.
Plus the miners act GREAT!!!!
Reaction to the political instability in China?
Disclosure - I am truly clueless. I'm just guessing... and counting my real money.
YES I MADE THE CALL 2 WEEKS AGO - EURO DECOUPLING AND SWISS FRANC BREAKING THE FLOOR
FORGOT TO MENTION SP500 TO DIP 10%+ AND CURRENCIES TO GET IN ARE MXN, CAD AND BRL AFTER GOLDMAN ASKED THEIR M-CLIENTS TO SELL ...
"YES I MADE THE CALL 2 WEEKS AGO"
Were you stuck on CAPS LOCK then too?
Good thing I bought physical last week on the dip.
lol The dip has lasted 6 months already. What a grind it has been.
It's only logical. Gold and Silver have had an enormous correction. Buy low sell high.
that give me an enormous erection
A 'Correction Erection'??
Yeah, wow... PMs are almost back where they were three hours ago...
You should go back to digging it of the hole.
And judging by your post, you should go back to taking English classes...
herp a derp
My thoughts exactly...
FYI, it's called an "outside day" for those who follow candles, and it's BULLISH
Ya, everything is bullish now. Click for market-logic explanation
Junking doesn´t change the fact that this is non-news and only deserves attention if you are stuck in the gold bug bearish mindset. Nothing has happend and no commodity or equity would have been given a seconf look if it went up a percent in fifteen minutes. On the contrary, then it would have been the algos, Bernanke, broken markets...
agreed this is not news(worthy) ...apart from a ramping at end of Feb' both Gold and Silver have been in downtrend for 2 months
I agree TSC, gold ended the day down 20 cents or 0.01%. Waste of a posting IMHO. Silver a bit more, up 10.6 cents or 0.33%
Of course, like you I'll be junked for thou shalt speak nothing but bull about the PMs. It could even be counter productive because somebody might sell just after those algos/dumping scenarios knock it straight back down again in 10 nanoseconds.
I'm pretty confident on my silver purchases. I have invested about $60K right now and at today's price I am holding about $75K. This is about 14 month averaging
Only thing left to post is address, ph#, email and sexual preference.
You would think a PM'er would know to keep their mouth shut.
Address: Davey Jones Locker
E-Mail: djl.at.tippecanoedotcom
Sex pref: Watersports
long beaver lodge salvage teams wildcatting lost ingots
I'd say sexual preference is obvious...got his ip...now email....now address..... and name...working on Ph #...i'll keep you all posted when i get it....
Mine was recenty lost in a boating accident :( /sarc
I found mine during a diving expidition :)
Me too. Then I lost it all in a boating accident.
Are some Muppets diving into our Scrooge McDuck Bullion Pool?
I just sold 20 June call contracts for SLV @$34....about an hour ago. Right at the fucking bottom.
No shit. Unbelievable.
Ya but you got time decay on your side & if you were smart a very short time to expiry. Seriously, spot 35 vs SLV 34. Are you really that worried?
Dennis Gartman has a nice beard
But AAPL supporters will argue that if you hold a gold bar up to your ear you won't hear the soothing voice of Siri.
And they are right, aren´t they?
Derpy, slerpy, murpy, berpy?
Don't wheeze the Ju-Uice...
I want you to remember today when you can't even find a working outlet to recharge your ever-shorter iPhone battery and consider trading it for some stew with a little meat.
If I want stew with meat I just buy some. Should there, for any reason, not be any meat in the market place I´ll just dig in to my preps. Do you think I´m stupid just becasue I don´t go along with ZH group think?
Not at all. You'll either have plenty of paper to burn to keep warm, or plenty of virtual paper to keep virtually warm.
Solar recharger for my iPod Touch. Works great.
There's a Kickstarter project to produce camp stove pots that use waste heat to make electricity for charging electronics. As long as the power outage doesn't outlast the battery, should be fine.
Taterboy
Most AAPL supporters couldn't lift a Gold bar as afr as the ear let alone hold one in place.
Yes they could ...it's the Microshite users (sufferers) that have all the problems ...and viruses ...and blue screens of death ...3 times a week
Says the guy who's obviously built like a math-lete. I bet you got a cheek full of peanut M&M's right about now don'tcha chubby?
burritos, leotards, and internet travel sites are the new safe havens apparently... makes perfect sense
Long it bitchez