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Gold And Silver Plunge As EUR Reaches 15 Month Lows

Tyler Durden's picture


It seems funds left redemptions until the last minute in the vain hope that everything will be fine in the European dis-Union as we see renewed selling pressure in EURUSD - taking out the January 2011 swing lows (as a mediocre Italian auction and failed Hungarian auction weigh heavily on the expectations for a 'solution' or firewall). Gold and Silver are also legging down hard (the latter now -9.5% from Christmas Eve) and the former loses $1550. Gold took out its September 2011 swing lows back to near six-month lows.

The USD is up around 1% since Christmas Eve's close with the EUR (and cable) underperforming and JPY outperforming (the only major cross that is stronger vs the USD). It also seems the AUD has a renewed corrrelation with the USD as we see Aussie bonds (the only 'safe' AAA govvie?) bid to record low yields.

Silver is the obvious (high beta) loser in this redemption/liquidation battle but Gold is 'decoupling' from copper here also. Interesting that Oil is stable just under $100 (and practically unch from Christmas Eve).

European sovereigns are all leaking wider with 10Y BTPs now almost 40bps wider than their tights yesterday, Portugal 10Y now 43bps wider than Christmas Eve's close and France 10Y also leaking badly (+15bps).

Elsewhere, ES is modestly higher from yesterday's day session close (as correlations with a weak Gold market are helping while every other risk asset driver is pointing negatively or flat). European corporate and financial credit spreads are notably wider (investment grade +7bps from yesterday's tights, Crossover +25bps, and senior financials +11bps) as European equities are now down nearly 1% from the Christmas Eve close.


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Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:36 | 2018655 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Oh well, Tme to buy more Physical

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:45 | 2018678 Grand Vizier
Grand Vizier's picture

But gold is so pretty to look at, say it isn't so!!!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:23 | 2020209 trav7777
trav7777's picture

silverbugz losing even more of their life's savings after "generational buy with both fists" alerts issued by ZH pumper shills when the price was at 32

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:51 | 2018688 PsychicWebbah
PsychicWebbah's picture

Not yet. GLD will bottom out at around 145-148. That is when you should buy buy buy gold (not GLD). I am just giving you the trigger level to buy as measured by GLD. I would never endorse an ETF.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:52 | 2018700 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Why buy gold like a trade?  In the end, it will only matter how many oz you own.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:55 | 2018710 PsychicWebbah
PsychicWebbah's picture

Why pay $3.99/lb for chicken when next week it will be on sale for $2.00/lb? You get twice as much.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:04 | 2018742 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



And if it never gets to your "trigger price," then where are you?  And if you believe that buying at the "trigger price" is always the way to go, then you are constantly guessing where the bottom is.  And you will miss some of those - either buying at an "above-bottom trigger" or never getting there and buying higher - in the end wasting a lot of energy trying to time something where you are apt to have roughly the same result by just staying in a scheduled buying pattern.

My WAC of gold is $892, including a 5 oz purchase this summer at $1,811 (including premium).

If you believe you are a good guesser, knock yourself out.  But if you intend to hold the physical as an accumulation of real money/wealth store, and you're not planning to "trade" it back anytime soon, the difference you believe you can gain by timing won't matter much.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:03 | 2018908 margaris
margaris's picture

exactly... Weighted Average Cost!

If you have a regular income its sooo easy.

Just take 10% of it (or more) and convert it immediately. Why wait? Waiting for what exactly?

Its even easier if you have been an unrestrained consumer bitch for years... and finally wake up!

You can still live out your desire to buy things... this time physical shiny metals!!!

Buy the real money with your fake money!

Such a fake paradox world we live in.... we have to BUY THE REAL MONEY.... lol!



Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:54 | 2019078 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I still think China has a large role in this slide.  Their housing bust is accelerating, and changes in their gold exchanges has made buying more difficult. 

Plus, we are seeing some year end selling, which is normal. 

The bet on the printers is still alive and well.  Deflation would take everything down stocks, gold, etc...  The bailouts will pump trillions into an already bloted system, which should be good for gold prices in every currency. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:27 | 2019364 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+1 and + 1

mayhem and margaris have it exactly right, at least for small physical gold investors.  When I have money ($ fiats) come in, I take some of that and buy gold.  I have been doing just that for decades, it has worked out very well for me.  I have BTFD and BTFSpike.  But each Spike (until now...) has been very transitory.

I agree that waiting on a target price is really a game for TRADERS, not for long-term savers choosing to hold physical gold.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:07 | 2018863 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

At the very least, buy PM's monthly, or twice if you feel the urge.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:50 | 2018853 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

My eyeball chart reading puts the long term trend line support for silver at $22-23. The question is what is fueling the drop in the euro now, just the low volume giving someone the oppotunity? I'm not seeing enough news to be driving this.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:51 | 2018858 fireeater294
fireeater294's picture

145 - 148 level? Is that the ETF price? If so i am watching it like a hawk! 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:59 | 2018724 Clam McCain
Clam McCain's picture

gold longs getting torched

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:10 | 2018755 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

gold longs getting torched


Gold long traders getting torched.  Fixed it fer ya.

With gold up a measley 8% for the year at this smack-down level, and up double digits for each of the the past few years, only long traders are torched. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:06 | 2018922 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

wait for tomorrow. TPTB want to see a very low single digit performance in gold for 2011. Possibly carrying this goal over into the first 2 months of 2012. This could be the last rainfall for a long time.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:20 | 2018774 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Paper longs, speculators holding leveraged bets on what the price of gold (as opposed to actually holding gold) are getting torched, and doing a favor for anybody who actually buys and takes delivery of the physical metal. You think that holders of physical are actually selling (other than the retail cash-for-gold market)? I doubt it.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:47 | 2018845 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

It is funny to see these troll posts every time gold dips.  You really think a collapsing Euro and Pound are bad for gold or good for the dollar?  Nothing has changed.  Just buy the dips.  Things are only getting worse.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:11 | 2019129 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

There are still a lot of people that look at gold like they do CSCO or AAPL. Most folks don't bother to try to understand economics, monetary policy, or for that matter investments outside of what they can do with their ETrade account.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:25 | 2019355 pods
pods's picture

If Etrade has an office in the City of London you will have to start putting quotes around "their" Etrade account.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:56 | 2018876 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

"gold longs getting torched"

I am long gold and silver. Not torched, bought at $850 and $9.00 !

Got a long way to go, to be torched

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:12 | 2019134 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

How about your physical will never be worth 0$?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:56 | 2019476 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Though it likely someday will near infinity when measured in dollars.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:56 | 2019903 JoBob
JoBob's picture

It ain't over 'til it's over!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:34 | 2018802 machineh
machineh's picture

"Oh well, Time to buy more Physical."

Too bad "Nasdaq 5000" didn't come in a tangible version that you could take home in a box, eh?

Addicted to precious metal Hopium? ZSL can fix that fast!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:53 | 2018865 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

ZSL is down from 1000.  LOL. 

You should buy puts on ZSL today.  I am.  That thing is mathematically designed to go down no matter what.  And no, I am not explaining it on the internet again.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:02 | 2018902 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

All of those 'ultra' inverse funds are just carnival games to help separate retailers who think they've found a magical way to take a short position in the market without actually short-selling, but never bother to learn the math that drives the leveraged funds. Just look at the performance of any of them (even the unleveraged ones suck).

The casino is rigged, but many people refuse to believe it.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:04 | 2019922 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Jesse's latest.  Chart at bottom link.


 29 December 2011

The End of Year Precious Metal Bullion Bear Raid - Another Form of Window Dressing?                                     

Like many others who watch the markets I have wondered what might be prompting this obvious bear raid on the paper precious metals market over past four weeks.

It could be explained by any number of economic developments including the decline of the Euro, but that does not really explain the downward market action which has been sporadic and not associated with news, more so than fundamental.

One has to be a bit naive or disingenuous to ignore the blatant bombing of the market with large numbers of contracts for sale during thinly traded markets. This is the not the sort of trading that a profit seeking trader would do except under the duress of a margin call. Anyone who watches the tape, rather than waving their hands from the 50,000 feet level, can see it clearly.

From speaking with others, and based on my own thinking, I believe that what we are seeing is a type of end of year window dressing.

At the end of year an institution will mark positions to market. Granted, any number of institutions will have an off calendar fiscal year ending for example in October.

But many others observe the conventional calendar year ending in December as their fiscal year, among them JP Morgan and HSBC for example.

It is an obvious phenomenon that trading firms run up prices into key events to make their results look better if the market conditions permit it. And the trading desks run prices lower on some assets into key events such as option expirations.

But what about firms that have very large short positions including naked short positions with leverage? Would they have an incentive to push prices lower into key events of mark to market?

The answer is yes, particularly if markets are thin and sentiment has been battered by repeated bear raids and commentary from their friends in the financial press. They also often spread the word, one way or another, amongst big traders that tend to follow price momentum. And of course it does not hurt if a major source of bullish trading amongst small speculators has been taken down into bankruptcy [ed: former MF Global clients].

Is this why we are seeing this now? Few can know for sure, but if we see a sharp rally in January and resumption of the bull trend the answer is more probably 'yes.'

And if so, this is just another hidden price that is being paid by a nation that cannot bring itself to be free of a financial oligarchy and their corrupting influences. 

Posted by Jesse 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:36 | 2018657 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Post-holiday PM sale!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:22 | 2018778 n8dawg84
n8dawg84's picture

I love sales!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:54 | 2019464 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If the old lady can go out and get some bargains on post-Christmas sales of crap made in China, why am I not entitled to pick up some $900/ozt gold?   Come on!  Gimme my deserved sale prices.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:00 | 2019488 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

My uneducated guess is that the Chinese set the floor at $1100 when they loaded up at that level previously. I can't imagine being able to source any physical at all if the paper price ever hits $900. I bet even Tulving would get cleaned out at that price point, especially given the counter-party risk disaster that is the Crimex.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:12 | 2019756 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

APMEX is blanketing my inbox with sale flyers.   Go figger.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:36 | 2018658 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Gold may reach sub $1200 and silver sub $15 in H1 2012.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:40 | 2018668 DrStrangelove
DrStrangelove's picture

most newer producers would be assed out at $15/oz.... bye bye annual increase in supply


unless you mean DOW 8,000 silver $15, then yeah... possible

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:47 | 2018684 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Short term price movements have little to do with fundos. The fundamentals of oil has been strong since 2001. However, oil still reached $40 in H1 2009.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:27 | 2019362 passwordis
passwordis's picture

 Fundamentals? They lie about peak oil. There is plenty of oil and countless new oil discoveries world wide. They probably lie about peak gold and silver as well.  There are probably secret mines, secret technology to unearth the metals and vast amounts of gold and silver reserves in secret underground storage facilities.

Fundamentals only apply if you can trust that they are accurate.  I'm a glutton for punishment and perhaps a little foolish so I'm trusting in the fundamentals of gold and silver but I'm also open to the possibility that I'm being played. ( think the De Beers diamond cartel)

I know one thing, I can't wait for this whole PM thing to runs it's course.  We may see a gold standard, which will push the price up so that all of the institutions and banks can sell their gold to the governments at $10,000  but the rest of us will probably be forced to sell (or hide) what we have to the local federal reserve at 1/10 that price.


 Yes, I'm feeling a bit pessimistic today.





Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:27 | 2018785 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"most newer producers would be assed out at $15/oz.... bye bye annual increase in supply"


But, but, Johnny Bravo said it cost only $5 oz to get it out of the ground...

Where are you Johnny? Still in your mom's basement?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:42 | 2018670 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Indeed, and the otherwise common company that a recession would be, will be solved through adjustments of CPI calculations, hence GDP deflators, and faster increasing GDP hedonics components.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:44 | 2018676 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Are you wild-guessing, or do you have a rationale?  The one scenario that would support such prices is an all-out monkey-hammering by Ben et al to drive physical out of weak hands in a final 'confiscation' before a currency collapse. 

Apart from such a manipulation, the EUR/USD would have to reside in the stratosphere, which the FED can't tolerate in the ongoing currency war.

I just don't see it.  The tension between not wanting real money to take off too soon and needing to keep the USD debased will continue this see-saw until someone admits something is broken. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:52 | 2018698 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

I don't think the Fed wants to support EURUSD that much. The European debt crisis creates "safe haven" demand for US treasuries. Otherwise who is gonna finance the huge fiscal deficit of the US? 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:56 | 2018717 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



What level of the ponzi did you buy in at?

Do you think the USD "safe haven" status has any staying power?  Why do you think Timmay is building up frequent flyer miles to have crepes and schnitzel with Merkozy?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:09 | 2018752 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

I first bought silver back in 2005. I added some in H1 2011 and it's already under water but I will not sell it. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:14 | 2018761 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Don't believe the hype of the 'market price.'  Your silver is not underwater.  Nothing the bad guys want more than for you to think that it is.  JPMorgan would love nothing more than for you and everyone else to believe Ag is a loser and cough it up to them. 

The real price of silver and gold are being masked, and the smart ones - you and the bad guys - know it.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:33 | 2018797 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

You are delusional.  You silver people are completely friggin delusional. There really is no other explanation for such a ridiculous attitude.  

Just snap the f out of it brother before you get yourself in too deep. Hearing you guys go on and on like price doesn't matter.  This is just a damn shame.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:47 | 2018844 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



Absolutely agree.  It's really amazing.  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:19 | 2018964 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

You are the delusional ones who believe the system is still honest. After MF Global, you should see this clearly. Instead, you stand in line to be slaughtered. Mass delusion indeed.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:05 | 2019113 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Never have I claimed that 'the system is honest'.  I am claiming that hanging your wealth/retirement on the long term performance of silver alone is not a winning strategy.  

Not only that but I am beginning to get the impression some of you guys are morons.  No offense guys but come on.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:14 | 2019143 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Silver alone?   No, it's never a good idea to put your savings in one asset.   But the benefits of PM's as your retirement vehicle

  • ZERO counterparty risk / ZERO default possibility
  • Long term (10+ years) method of wealth retention  (seriously show me a better one)
  • Utimately fungible and marketable
  • Portable wealth
  • Can't be confiscated except through killing you.  

If you have a better idea / suggestion I'm sure we would be all ears.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:23 | 2019169 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

"Long term (10+ years) method of wealth retention"

- Amen & if this PM rally is over there will sure as fuck be another one w/ in the next 20 - 30 years...hows that 25% loss on the stock market (adjusted for inflation) over the past 10 years treating your retirement account?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:40 | 2019215 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Of all your rationale, this is my favorite:

Can't be confiscated except through killing you

WTF over?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:45 | 2019229 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

My reasoning is that if they are going to go door to door taking gold and silver they will be going door to door stealing everything not nailed down (food, power, your women, etc).   They will be robbing you at gunpoint at which point you might as well fight.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:57 | 2019260 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Well....the govt. pegs the value of gold at $42 bucks an ounce...

So when they decide to confiscate it, and mandate that people "turn it in"....they'll probably offer people a couple hundred bucks and claim they are generous with a 400% windfall 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:37 | 2019624 fuu
fuu's picture

Those pesky gold certificates.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 03:08 | 2021103 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Sorry......$42.2222 (strange numbers....but not my numbers)

a calculator tells the story pretty easily:

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:42 | 2019612 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There's also the stealth confiscation that being used as we speak.  We, "real money" savers have already changed our fiat into into PMs.  Now we don't have any more fiat to change -- to "BTFD".  We've been conditioned to avoid fiat, so why would we have any more fiat than what's necessary for a few month's rent and groceries?  Those few months have now been used up for the ones, like the pensioners, that live off their investments.  Now we must cash in some of those PMs to eat and stay warm.

It was a brilliant (but evil) move what JPM did to our price discovery mechanism.  Who'd thunk it -- that instead of their shorts busting JPM and the Comex, they busted the rest of us instead that held PMs, both the paper and the physical variety.  If there's no price discovery mechanism, it becomes very difficult to cash in those PMs for a decent price.  So we take less because we have to.  They're not robbing us at gunpoint;  they're robbing us with keyboards and political power.   If one has absolute control of the markets and the sovereign fiat money system, it's not so hard to separate the proles from their wealth.

The market can remain irrational longer than we can remain solvent.  Theft, extortion, bribery, and murder is now the accepted method of acquiring large amounts of wealth.  Until this is no longer the case, we have a problem.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 03:13 | 2021105 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

What's this We?

I shot off a cash missile earlier this month....but I've got a couple more to back my play and DCA

Become your own bank...."Stash n Stockpile Weapons of Stack Construction!"

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:51 | 2019248 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

You really don't understand how this story ends, do you?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:20 | 2019163 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yes i am hanging my long term retirement on silver.  you got to have faith baby..............silver bugs never get any respect..........we are the kicked when we are down and laughed at when we are in the green. oh well..........please continue can call me names if it makes you feel any better............but the die is set. i made my bet. and that's my story and i am sticking to it.........

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:17 | 2020182 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:19 | 2020188 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Oh yeah, and f#&k the nay-sayers.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:33 | 2019200 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture last big purchase earlier this month finally pushed the DCA of my stack into the double digits.

Silver's done alright by me for 10 years now....

No offense....but I think it more than qualifies as a long term winning strategy

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:36 | 2019403 passwordis
passwordis's picture

 I am claiming that hanging your wealth/retirement on the long term performance of silver alone is not a winning strategy. 


Right, because if you bought silver 10 years ago, you would have only septupled your investment even after the drop from $49.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:59 | 2019483 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

Stax - don't confuse moron with intelligent fringe lunatic - I am truly insulted.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 18:00 | 2020464 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Stax Edwards

  I am claiming that hanging your wealth/retirement on the long term performance of silver alone is not a winning strategy.  


I agree 100%,never hang your hat on one item, but the ONLY Item to HANG it on, if you had to choose is GOLD



Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:03 | 2018907 oldmanofthesee
oldmanofthesee's picture

I have no PM physical. I'm an old fart, and each time I work up enuf courage to buy some, the sellers turn me off. Goldline made our local papers, in that they sold $31,000 of gold coins to a local widow, for $50,000. The guy hawking stuff in the tuxedo is amusing. None of them will allow purchase with an Amex credit card. Why? "Cause AMEX will help chase scoundrels. So, here I sit. I thought about it at $1800, then $1700, then $1600............

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:24 | 2018981 Quick
Quick's picture

I thought about gold at $255 - bought at 280, 320, and 600.

I thought about silver at 2.80 - bought at 3.00 and 5.00

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:39 | 2019021 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

When did you buy at $ 3.00?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:47 | 2019051 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Around 1815

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:08 | 2019293 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

What is bullshit for $800 Trebek.

Anyone can just write that. I'll be the first to admit I was late to the start but I'm young so I'm not too worried about it. I know some guys who did buy the bulk of their purchases at $8 and at $10 and $12 and I admire them for having the discipline in a relatively flat market to buy the quantities they did. A few of them were worried it would go to $5... and $6... etc.

I bought in Nov. 2010 for the first time... and basically every month after w/ a % allocation of dry powder every month for dips like this. I bought the April/May dip... the September slaughter... and I'm about to back up the truck if this shit prints $22-$25 range. If it hits $25 I'm waiting but will probably cash in 1/3rd of my powder and continue to do so on down. I'd rather have a position opened at $25 then wait til it's at $35.

But as per usual... $1 of gold for every $2 of silver til the ratio (near 60) doesn't give me a boner.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:47 | 2019050 pods
pods's picture

Well if it drops to a level you are comfortable with, you can be assured that you will not be able to find any physical to be had.

if you are nervous about buying gold, then you are not buying it for the right reason, IMHO.  The allure of huge gains is not what gold is for, even though it may happen.  In reality, gold is a parallel form of wealth preservation.  To look at it in terms of fiat does it a great injustice.  

Learn to see it as an independent way to protect yourself.

If you are looking to get in low and sell high, that is why they make GLD, which should be looked at as nothing different from the rest of the offerings within the fiat system.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:06 | 2019118 yabyum
yabyum's picture

AWW!!! Goldline, gold dealer to Hannity, Beck ,and the rest of the corporate whores. Rip off grandma ! Thats OK!.... Go establish a realationship with your local coin guy, have some fun and get some metal.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 20:12 | 2020669 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Goldline, gold dealer to Hannity, Beck ,and the rest of the corporate whores. Rip off grandma ! Thats OK!...

Due Diligence dude........................

Hannity, and Beck never tell folks WHAT kind if Gold to buy.

Having had a couple of conversations with other Dealers LIKE Goldline, Granny got screwed, simply because she trusted a crook.

She was sold the older eurpoean coins, or Gold 20.00 Eagles,for CONFISCATION protection (which is a joke).

So she paid a huge premium for RARE , non confiscatible GOLD.

Granny should have had help,and not got screwed,by the slime sucking money grubbing liars.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 22:35 | 2020838 yabyum
yabyum's picture

AKA Goldline! Beck wiped his dick on Grandma. Fuck due diligence, these fucks are criminals.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:19 | 2019155 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Wouldnt you like to have some form of portable asset that cannot be devalued and is accepted across the world no matter what government attempts to do?   Talk to some immigrants about what happens during a currency reset.   Vietnamese, Russians, Eastern Europeans, Middle Easterners will be able to tell you exactly what does happen.   (You lose every bit of wealth you have spent your life creating)

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:49 | 2019240 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture


You are ignorant. Currently Physical Silver price is pegged to a fiat paper ETF market price. This will not stand forever because the paper market is pure theater at this point.

Once Physical returns to actual supply and demand pricing, Physical Silver prices will elevate to the proper levels of ~ 15-16:1 that of Gold. As a side note; Gold is in the same boat with its pricing

Paper should not price Physical, this is the key. When the collapse can no longer be hidden by the crooks running this casino the rush to Physical Gold and Silver will be mind-blowing.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:56 | 2019700 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Paper should not price Physical"?  Are you suggesting that physical prices physical?  As long as there's fiat currency, physical will be priced by paper.  If physical is not available to the average prole, how can she use anything but her government's "full payment for all debts public and private" fiat to buy her groceries and pay her rent and taxes?

The end game appears to be to remove physical PMs from general circulation.  When you're no longer able to buy any PMs from your local coin dealer -- it doesn't matter the reason -- they will effectively have disappeared from circulation.  Destruction of the price discovery mechanism is a giant step in that direction.  Buying up the physical after the price has been severely crushed, and when people need fiat to pay their bills, will remove more from circulation.

For gold and silver to be money, it must circulate.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 16:40 | 2020271 macktheknife
macktheknife's picture

I can certainly follow why you think this.   I am all in sliver and gold -  average price paid for gold is 800$, average for silver is 18 - and I have essentially no 401 or other investments.  Here is my FEELING:  I am not sophiticated enough to understand the equities markets- and have no possibility of gaining that expertise, say, in next ten years - so I can either trust advisors, or make the best safe bet I can.  Here is what I see- over the past five years essentially EVERY aspect of finance seems to be worsening - interest rates at near zero, Japan totally on the ropes, China maybe also in a RE crash; Euro very unstable;  Middle East MUCH more unstable; US in massive debt, with no sign of recovery.   With my limited expertise, what would I imagine was going to grow over next 5-10 years?   I am not skilled enough to SHORT things.  The only CONSISTENT trend I see over past ten years is widespread money printing, and a fairly staedy climb in metals.  Do I expect this to continue over the next 5-10 years? Yes, yes I do.    It seems like the safest bet.   

I also am looking for severely underpriced real estate in Vegas and Detroit.  That's my plan, and ,like The Cowardly Lion - I just want somebody to "Talk me out of it".    So, all I am offering is my reasoning, based on lack of expertise in markets- we all have to place our own bets.  Maybe, this will offer a little insight into why we are doing what we are doing - and are only a little delusional -  I have basically doubled my money in past decade, by doing this.  Let's see how this works in 2015 and 2020.   

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:25 | 2018782 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture


JC, is your avatar an animal wearing a Nazi SS Brownshirt Uniform performing a Sieg Heil?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:35 | 2018804 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Please google "Pokemon Hitler".

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:58 | 2018719 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Otherwise who is gonna finance the huge fiscal deficit of the US? "


Treasury to Fed to PDs... Same old game... It's called printing money from thin air.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:04 | 2018740 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

IMHO, the Fed will save some dry powder until the "safe haven" demand dries up.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:07 | 2018749 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Take the game to its end moves.  The only thing the Fed will store up "dry powder" for is something of real (not printed) value.  Printing money to cover up printed money is not a use of dry powder.  Confiscating real money (PMs) through manipulated smack-downs or, potentially, direct acquisition from the populace, are the dry powder moves.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:37 | 2019015 Badabing
Badabing's picture

We have to look at the facts! We just bailed out Europe. We just printed more money. We have never stopped QE.

Its all smoke and mirrors. All this is bullish for gold yet it goes down! Its just the paper, and the paper will have to crash before settlement of the paper contracts with paper. Just hold tight and don’t forget that the end is near.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:02 | 2018735 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Yes, that's a very good question. With collapsing margins, closing stores, a fading China, who WILL finance the US deficit, but for Uncle Ben?

The scheme is genius though evil. Uncle Ben will finance it - through the wealth confiscation of the population as a whole for the benefit of a few members of the elite.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:01 | 2019276 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

would a president ron paul stick the fed for the bag of worthless debts?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:17 | 2019973 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

What he said!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:48 | 2018685 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

You prediction is as valuable as that that says gold $2100/oz.

It looks to me that the price of gold to the value of the euro and since the euro may crash further, the price of gold is likely to fall too.

Why is the price of gold pegged to the euro? I don't know. I have to read anything that explains why. All I read is that gold goes down when DXY goes up but since DXY is mostly based on the value of the euro, it is very much similar to what I am saying.

What I'd like to read is what happens to DXY when the euro is gone? Does it go to zero? 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:53 | 2018705 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Why is the price of gold pegged to the euro?

I'm not sure I would word it that way, but the Eurozone does account for its bullion in an MTM fashion.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:38 | 2018815 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

Thank you for that. FOFOA reminds of that fact occasionally, and treats it as something of great importance. I would add that the eurozone reserves are much more likely to exist than the US's (still unaudited) 8K tons.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:10 | 2018931 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Back in the day, before I retired, a guy in the dark world told me if TSHTF, we (US) would confiscate all the Au the Saudis had stashed in US vaults. Now, maybe shakeyerbouti has figured this out by now, but there are few safe places for potentates in that part of the world to store their stash.

After we further decimate the ME in Operation R2P (yes, it sounds strange, Omar, but we have to kill you to save you), TPTB can just reneg on all the debt Mr Yerbouti is holding. They will go back to their camels, and the Anglo Empire will rise again as the 4th Reich. Well, someone has to write a new Constitution since Miss Graham and Loco John just blew the current one up.

I'm sitting on my PM, gonna buy more.

Copper-clad lead futures still look good.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:04 | 2018912 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

When the currency of any potential consumer collapses, price also collapses for certain products, because the holders of the currency cannot consume said products.  Such products will be the non-necessities.  Prices of necessities should rise as the holders of the failed currency will exchange almost anything unnecessary for the necessary.  So, G / S may decline in price if currencies collapse, but their value as barter goods may remain unchanged... or also show a decline... less consumers + people trading it in for other goods... both increase supply.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:51 | 2018696 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

please let gold hit 1200 one more time so I can walk away from the casino for good.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:05 | 2018743 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

2008 touched the 175 week Moving sitting at $1,200 and this is worse than 08 I read....makes sense, 08 was Lehman, this is 523 banks to start with.

Added to that, how long will independent gold dealers take the price from Comex? The London Gold Pool broke down in the late 60s, gold markets do fail. This is what I think we are witnessing, with the fiat defenders putting in the boot for optics. Maybe another thing we will see in 2012 is a new physical gold exchange, maybe PAGE...maybe another.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:22 | 2018976 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Astute. 2012 might be the year of the "Decoupling". Spot prices decoupling from Comex, traditional industrial metals decoupling, currencies decoupling, regional market indexes decoupling. 

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:50 | 2019247 Pegasus Muse
Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:06 | 2019292 viahj
viahj's picture

banksters heads decoupling

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:57 | 2018879 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

"Gold may reach sub $1200 and silver sub $15 in H1 2012."

We can only hope!!!!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:02 | 2018900 Loan Gunman
Loan Gunman's picture

Or, it may not.  

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:02 | 2019721 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Yes and a blue pig might fly pass my window

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:49 | 2018659 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Isn't it nice to know that liquidation never hits equities, ever!

Not even when it brings with it a rapidly rising Dollar, which will make US-based company overseas earnings plunge? That doesn't matter to the equities markets either!

Oh, and with a rapidly rising Dollar, US competitiveness will decline, thereby increasing the deficit. But again, this will only lead to disruptions in the commodities markets, not equities, ever!

Fraud, fraud, and fraud.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:53 | 2018706 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

EscapeKey... +1... Any news is spun by the bobble heads as good news so equities continue up on light volumn buying by some unknown entities.

ZIRP doesn't matter. Fraud and theft don't matter. Fed/Treas monetization does't matter. Throwing the Constitution out the window doesn't matter. Phony Gov stastics don't matter. Jobs don't matter. Snap card increases don't matter. etc...

Dancing with the stars and football matter.

One positive note: Montana is attempting to recall their senators that voted to throw the Constitution out the window.

"Montanans Launch Recall of Senators Who Approved NDAA Military Detention"

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 17:34 | 2020415 Schmoo
Schmoo's picture

Cheers for Montana!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:55 | 2018709 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

I think they simply underestimate the dollar.

Its death will remain very elusive next year, in fact it is likely to continue its rally off the cyclical low it hit earlier this year.

It should be good for 10-12% more, which is where it has topped for four times in the last five years.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 11:09 | 2018945 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

There is an enormous amount of money floating through the system. It has to exist somewhere. Think deeply on that, it has to be somewhere. When someone pulls it out of some account in Spain or Italy because they don't like the euro they have to put it somewhere. There are no safe places left for big money. The US market is still one of the 'least ugly' places to park money. Stocks will soar on any hint that things are getting better simply because the money has to go somewhere. But the system is deeply flawed so I expect the wild swings to accelerate, like a drunk trying to find the keyhole with his key each swing will get wider. S&P goes to 1500 and to 800. I'm not going to predict which comes first though. The subsequent swings go wider yet. The stabilizing mechanism is dead and gone from 1000 cuts by the governments, central banks and other manipulators. PMs are going along for the ride, why should they be stable?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:58 | 2018720 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

The big boys are trying hard to sucker in mom & pop's dollars...  

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:03 | 2018739 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Isn't it nice to know that liquidation never hits equities, ever!

Not for 19 months, anyway. Remember 5/6/10 - Rise of the Machines? The next one will be similar but different I am sure. Spinning plates find new ways to become unbalanced.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:05 | 2018919 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Really, cause the S&P 500 was down almost 12.5% from 8/1/11 to 9/30/11.  Just sayn...

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:36 | 2018660 achmachat
achmachat's picture

You guys in the US seem to be luckier than us here in Europe; as I am unable to take advantage of these dips in the spot price to buy some physical PMs.

All the dealers here either don't adjust to the new spot prices or just say that they won't accept orders until after January 3rd.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:40 | 2018669 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

Not true. I am seeing 5.3% premium on Krugers, slightly smaller than usual.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:43 | 2018675 Dugald
Dugald's picture

You think thats tough...In Oz the dealers are on holiday till the 16th....

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:34 | 2018800 Aarnog
Aarnog's picture active right through, along with other New Zealand dealers I think. The mint accepts USD payment, too.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:49 | 2018690 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

Yo, not true everywhere. Come to Brussels, bring cash.

Low premiums, wide selection. The last two are near the central train station. The first is a good choice if you're driving. You have to give ID if buying more than €2500 per person at a time, so bring your old lady and visit all four places!

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:58 | 2018722 achmachat
achmachat's picture


thanks... I am seriously considering it.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:20 | 2018771 EasterBunny
EasterBunny's picture

You can try these guys too - They are a little more (not much) expensive than those mentioned above, but i have had very good experience with ordering and delivery. Their site is also better than most.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:31 | 2018791 achmachat
achmachat's picture

nope... they don't deliver to my little place, although we share a border.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:48 | 2018841 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:48 | 2019661 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Anyone know any good shops in SWITZERLAND??? 

 I felt really dumb buying my wife CHF100 from the States for Christmas, but the spreads were better than anything I have found here in the cash & carry market.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:37 | 2018661 nontaxpayer
nontaxpayer's picture

Note to self, pick up some krugers.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:37 | 2018662 bhakta
bhakta's picture

Someone is really trying hard to scare the gold and silver bulls into selling, or is this forced selling due to redemptions or margin calls?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:50 | 2018695 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Rising open interest in silver on declining prices.

Levered money trying to drive prices down to force liquidation in thin markets.

Lease rates are finally negative tho, so this may be the limit of their reach.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:58 | 2018723 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It are the paper pm trades that are comming to a end. But if paper goes below 20 or 19$ i'm going to buy some calls on the slv.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:48 | 2018730 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

All of the above and more.

Until and unless that big weekend revaluation announcement comes, you can expect shakeouts all the way up. Cash crunches, manipulations, and leveraged longs all play a part.

Accumulate regularly, try for short-term lows (like now). Tops and bottoms never seem to come, so forget about them. The longer you stick to this strategy, the more you'll like it.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:37 | 2018663 bullionbaron
bullionbaron's picture

The Government/central banks acting in the interest of the greater good will do whatever it takes to support the system, print, freeze bank accounts, limit withdrawals and more as this crisis escalates, time to be a buyer of physical metals and keep some cash out of the system:

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:40 | 2018667 kensdad
kensdad's picture

Shades of October, 2008.  Four months later, gold was 50 pct higher than where it bottomed.  

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:41 | 2018671 vegas
vegas's picture

Gold is one of the only winners over the last year or so. If you have losses from other investments, the only way you can capture these losses is to be able to deduct them from something you sold that was a winner; otherwise you cannot carry over the loss into the next year. In other words, pay taxes on your winners, eat shit on the losses.

I'm just surprised the redemptions waited until the last couple of days. Rest of today and tomorrow could get real interesting.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:49 | 2018689 Bastiat009
Bastiat009's picture

Gold is falling hard and fast and may not be a winner much longer.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:00 | 2018728 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If gold goes to 1350, i'm moving in and will double my holdings.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:15 | 2018766 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Can you double your avatar?  I'd toss you a few oz to see that.  :D

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:11 | 2018757 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

This is not about winning, unless you're a paper trader. It's like saying you're a winner because your life insurance policy paid off.

Buy gold and hope that you lose money on it. If it goes down long-term, that means that fiat is retaining some value (for whatever reason) and society will not disintegrate.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:05 | 2018915 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

Oh, the bliss of it all. We can only hope for another year of "normal life".

I did plan a Hong Kong vacation in November 2012. I figured, roll the dice and hope for stablity, and continue buying PM's.  We PM collectors are not a sordid bunch, just would like something left, when TSHTF.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:04 | 2019506 _underscore
_underscore's picture

Very well put, GoldBricker.  I regard myself as both 'long' & 'short' in PMs, i.e. I have the physical metals & cash. If the $/Au 'ratio' changes, I'm hedged both ways. My dilemma is, I don't know what to hope for - Armageddon or 'steady as she goes' (or to use the verncaular - 'kicking the can down the road') outcome.

I don't seriously hope for societal disintegration, of course, but not hedging that possibility (to some small extent, at least..) looks likes foolishness akin to not wearing a lifejacket or hitching your seat-belt.

I fully expect Au/Ag  spot exchange prices to go lower - yet today I bought more.. crazy? Well, I've never been good at picking the bottom (if you'll pardon the expression..!) in any investment/asset, but nor have I ever been able to put my money (property/land excepted) where there's no jeopardy or counter-party risk. 'Money' used to have much less counter-party risk, but now it does in my view - hence my interest in PMs. I'm not naive or vain enough to think I've been especially astute or clever in this, but even my thick skull can eventually absorb enough of the beating drum sounds from over the horizon to make me realise that change (esp. to us 1st/New Worlders) is coming.

 My investing strategy, fwiw, is to only commit (fiat) money if I know I won't be needing it for a few years & never borrow money or leverage myself, in any way, to make investments.

As an aside, the gold I bought today consisted of 2 double-eagles from the 1890s & some UK sovereigns. The double-eagle must be one of the most gorgeous gold coins ever made - you simply don't get that thrill buying savings bonds or shares! I can imagine some high falutin' high-roller arm-in-arm with his paramour tossing this gold $20 D-E to the check-out clerk at the Plaza Hotel NY (say, c1897) for the weekend stay & still getting enough change to catch a Broadway show, buy his gal some flowers & enjoy a chop house supper for two.




Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:11 | 2019754 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Your as much an Anarchist as Bernank is a truthful person. They are waiting for you in the lobby, oh -1

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:41 | 2019401 HamFistedIdiot
HamFistedIdiot's picture

"I'm just surprised the redemptions waited until the last couple of days. Rest of today and tomorrow could get real interesting."


That PMs are getting hammered, meanwhile the "safe haven" of equities remains steady, at this point in the fiat end game is suspicious. A poster a day or two ago thought that something was being front-runned here. Maybe another poster, who said just buy this dip and then sit on a sunny beach outside the US for the next few years, has the right idea. Jim Sinclair and Richard Russell say to ignore the noise, because when the smoke clears gold (and I hope silver) will be the last "men" standing.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:42 | 2018673 egoist
egoist's picture

Doesn't there have to be something more going on to impact the PM than just the EU? I don't by the "manipulated" angle, but the negs seem unjustified. Maybe timing w/ end of year tax stuff?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:43 | 2018674 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

This is starting to hurt.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:44 | 2018833 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Where can one buy gold in Warsaw? Am here for a few days more and the USDPLN rate is something to take advantage of right now.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:44 | 2019429 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If you are staying at a nice hotel, ask your Concierge.

Maybe look up "gold" in Polish and do a Google search as well.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:34 | 2020024 akak
akak's picture

"z?oto" is the Polish word for "gold".


EDIT: Dammit, it won't let me use the proper Polish letter in the word above.  The second letter is pronounced "ehw", which looks like an "l" with a line through it, slanting upward from lower left to upper right --- no other language uses this letter, unfortunately.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 14:14 | 2019765 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Not too sure but in the second capital (Krakow) silver in coin and bar form are non existant.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:45 | 2018677 Yellow Tang
Yellow Tang's picture

Silver is cheaper now than it was a year ago.  How low is it going to go?  All the fundamentals are still there and yet gold and silver continue to get smashed.  We have the euro in trouble, US deficit increasing, LTRO, bailouts, record bond prices and bailed out countries getting their latest tranches by skin of teeth....and yet gold is headed sub 1500 and silver heading to 20.  I don't feel like this is weak hands being shaken out the tree but fuck, my hands are trembling a bit, lol.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:49 | 2018691 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

All the fundamentals are still there and yet gold and silver continue to get smashed.


They continue to get smashed because all of the fundamentals are there.  In a corrupt environment, the idea is to play keep-away with the stuff that is really valuable.  The irony is that the keep away is effectuated by lowering the purchase price (because it creates doubt).

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:17 | 2018955 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

I agree - the higher PMs go, the more panic sets in with fiat's buying power. 

Gold still up for the year.....but the MSM, including those like Nouriel and David Frum so quick to debunk it as a bad investment, really makes you wonder about the motives.

Some pople just love defending the system.  Shit if I was eating at Morton's everynight, I would, too.

A great many Americans are paying a steep price – and may pay a much steeper price yet – for allowing hucksters and ideologues to sway their economic judgment.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:23 | 2018979 fuu
fuu's picture


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:01 | 2018733 css1971
css1971's picture

It's going to 80:1 with gold. I dump my gold and buy silver instead when it gets above 65:1.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:45 | 2018679 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

PMs down: all financial problems solved, apparently. No crisis.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:04 | 2018741 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture


Employment numbers way up?  Yup.  Deficit spending cured? Yup.  Massive new easily accessible oil discovered?  Sure.  Wages increasing for most?  Certainly.  Major new industries opening here?  Yup.  College costs dropping like a rock?  Absolutely.  

Seriously, I don't know why anyone would want to have some PMs put aside as insurance.  Well, gotta go...Judge Judy's on.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:09 | 2019312 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

wow all the trolls are out in force down-arrowing everyone that has a positive upside outlook for the "barbaric relics".. Just remember that:

1.) USD will continue to devalue in 2012 along with most global currencies,

2.) We are in a traditional dip period for all commodities (January - April).

And also, remember none of the fundementals have been addressed and will continue on to 2012:

1.) China's economy will have a "hard landing" next year.

2.) Europe's soverign debt crisis will sprial out of control at the very least by the end of 2012; the Euro will cease to be a currency

3.) Canada's real estate market will crash.

4.) Japan will default on their bonds and other obligations.

5.) The USA? probably continue to print money in some kind of way.


Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:46 | 2018681 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

So, here is the question: Is/was gold an intentional "trap"? The BerNANK has shown in the past that he is a believer in financial activity as the measurement standard for an economy... as ludicrus as this may seem. He was a believer that even if people tied their assets up in real property and things such as metals, the increase in price was good for the economy, since it would require more money to circulate for people to buy the property.

There are of course enormous holes in his personal dream-world paganistic religeon. When infinite money is given to the banks and price of everything is increased, the only people/entities with the capability to buy things become the bankers/banks. Hi prices reduce consumption.

If one only looks at the macro and not the actual cause and effect, it is easy to miss that this imbalance of power is what destroys economies, governments and empires. There may be a way out, but it would come through a cleansing by fire and the wholesale sell-out of the banks and bankers. Deflation then becomes the savior, the purifying bath, and not the disease.

Maybe it just takes time for the parasites in power to realize this.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:25 | 2018783 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Don't forget to include what happens to soveriegn debt and bonds when you go through these scenarios. When I see a scenario that leaves gov't debt at zero or greatly reduced and the currency still intact then I'm going to take a hard look at how that scenario would impact gold. Until then I'm just stacking away.

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